Bad habit appearing again - heroics with solos

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>Lately this plague of annoyance has been actively removed from Norrath. There's only a few places where heroic content is freely mixed with solo. Mainly old world stuff. I believe the doctrine was along the lines of overland zones being largely solo mobs with soloable nameds. Heroics being "stand alone" and away from the rest of the mobs.</p><p>Imagine my chagrin after fighting all the way through the Thullosian hordes in Guk (all solo mobs all the way up) hoping to find a named for AA somewhere when I reach the top and the named is a ^^ heroic mob. To say I was annoyed is putting it mildly.</p><p>I was playing my Troub so soloing a mob like that is suicide. I tried it anyway but he was autoattacking me for 1600+ damage. Even with mezz and slow heal, by the time I had got it to 75% HP it was about time for all the other mobs nearby to repop. A long stifle attack didnt help either.</p><p>If your going to put a heroic named somewhere then please make the surrounding mobs heroic. If not, then make the named a ^ named.</p><p>This isnt a group/solo rant or anything, just a plea to be consistent with your mob placements.</p>

[Wulfgr]

<p>I have ran into this a couple times.  I really hate when you fight a ton of non heroics for a quest, then you need to kill a named 3 up heroic</p>

[Noaani]

<p>If the mobis stationary, you are not forced to pull it. Mobs that do not force the player to pull them for any reason other than loot or quest updates can be placed anywhere in the game imo.</p>

[Brinelan]

<p>There needs to be more of this kind of thing tbh.  Back in eq1 there was lvl 45 mobs in lvl 20 zones, etc...  It made things interesting and made you be careful when going through places. </p><p>I know this named you found, and ya he is easily avoidable.</p>

[Kizee]

<p>IMO there should be more heroics peppered into the solo mobs.</p><p>The outside zones are just too safe. People don't try to avoid camps of mobs they run right through the middle of them with no fear of dying.</p><p>I miss the old days when you had to pay attention where you were going and even then you had a good chance of agroing something that could very well kill you.</p><p>Nek forest when the game released anyone? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> Now look what it has evolved into....</p>

[Dasein]

<p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>IMO there should be more heroics peppered into the solo mobs.</p><p>The outside zones are just too safe. People don't try to avoid camps of mobs they run right through the middle of them with no fear of dying.</p><p>I miss the old days when you had to pay attention where you were going and even then you had a good chance of agroing something that could very well kill you.</p><p>Nek forest when the game released anyone? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> Now look what it has evolved into....</p></blockquote><p>When the game was released, Nek Forrest was one of those zones people avoided. You'd see giant hunting parties forming in TS all the time, but I don't recall ever seeing a group form specifically for Nek Forrest, unless it was for an HQ or to head to Nek Castle. TS was far more popular.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>IMO there should be more heroics peppered into the solo mobs.</p><p>The outside zones are just too safe. People don't try to avoid camps of mobs they run right through the middle of them with no fear of dying.</p><p>I miss the old days when you had to pay attention where you were going and even then you had a good chance of agroing something that could very well kill you.</p><p>Nek forest when the game released anyone? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> Now look what it has evolved into....</p></blockquote><p>When the game was released, Nek Forrest was one of those zones people avoided. You'd see giant hunting parties forming in TS all the time, but I don't recall ever seeing a group form specifically for Nek Forrest, unless it was for an HQ or to head to Nek Castle. TS was far more popular.</p></blockquote><p>To this day I still see more people in TS than in Nek. I think that is more because of Nek being dark and gloomy while TS is alot more cheerful.</p><p>My main point is alittle danger is a good thing. People shouldn't be runing through camps of mobs with no fear like they do now.</p><p>And no way should a zone be neutered like Nek was. It was a death trap for any lower level player now I could take a level 1 and afk autorun and come back 10 min later and still not be dead because 3/4 of that zone is non agro now.</p>

[Bhow]

<p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>IMO there should be more heroics peppered into the solo mobs.</p><p>The outside zones are just too safe. People don't try to avoid camps of mobs they run right through the middle of them with no fear of dying.</p><p>I miss the old days when you had to pay attention where you were going and even then you had a good chance of agroing something that could very well kill you.</p><p>Nek forest when the game released anyone? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> Now look what it has evolved into....</p></blockquote><p>Man do I miss the good ole' days when leveling up in the lowbie areas was actually... a challenge =P</p><p>Heroics that were heroics. (None of the name with a ^ stuff) Stuff anywhere. Needing to watch what you were doing... Ahhh was that fun =)</p>

[Xil]

<p>You know the seperation of group and solo content is why people have so much trouble finding groups and spend so much time soloing in the first place right?</p><p>Which also has the effect of segregating the population further for higher teir group content because so much of the population never learned to group on their way up....  Ironic.</p><p>Why is there group content in my solo content /cry....</p><p>A) ...puorg ot nrael ll'uoy ebyam oS</p><p>Instead of being worthless in the majority of group content later...</p>

[Dasein]

<p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>IMO there should be more heroics peppered into the solo mobs.</p><p>The outside zones are just too safe. People don't try to avoid camps of mobs they run right through the middle of them with no fear of dying.</p><p>I miss the old days when you had to pay attention where you were going and even then you had a good chance of agroing something that could very well kill you.</p><p>Nek forest when the game released anyone? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> Now look what it has evolved into....</p></blockquote><p>When the game was released, Nek Forrest was one of those zones people avoided. You'd see giant hunting parties forming in TS all the time, but I don't recall ever seeing a group form specifically for Nek Forrest, unless it was for an HQ or to head to Nek Castle. TS was far more popular.</p></blockquote><p>To this day I still see more people in TS than in Nek. I think that is more because of Nek being dark and gloomy while TS is alot more cheerful.</p><p>My main point is alittle danger is a good thing. People shouldn't be runing through camps of mobs with no fear like they do now.</p><p>And no way should a zone be neutered like Nek was. It was a death trap for any lower level player now I could take a level 1 and afk autorun and come back 10 min later and still not be dead because 3/4 of that zone is non agro now.</p></blockquote><p>The main travel path from the docks to Commonlands is fairly safe, the rest of the zone is mostly agro. I would epxect the forces of civilization to make some headway into a zone like this, however. With griffon towers and mailboxes and more travellers coming through now, it makes sense that the native population would become less savage and more docile, at least in the areas where they're likely to get killed.</p>

[thajo]

<p>Isn't guk suppose to be a highly dangerious area?  Thought that was the point of some areas in this game.  Maybe your toon should be more careful when adventuring around more dangerious parts of the world :p.  I can't beleive you died in a video game and were so frusterated you had to come here to rant it...thats exactly what has been killing this game for alot.  On top of death having pretty much no penalty, nothing is even dangerious anymore.  </p><p>The heroics you find in overland zones appear to be WAY underpowered compared to heroics you find in instances.  (ability and hp wise).  So this just means you gotta watch where your going cause your actually in places that arn't meant to be safe for toons...If you weren't meant to die in those areas there would be no enemies and just slews of clickies and non-attackable npc's for quest updates.</p>

[Vanderlay]

<p>I can remember the days of training mobs to Ruins of Varsoon in TS praying that I clicked the entrance before the mobs caught up to me.  Ah the good old days are just that....old days now.  But Nek Forest used to be a challenge just going from the docks to the Commonlands entrance if you didn't have the bird quest done yet.  I understand that in order to attract newer players they needed to thin out the zones and make them more appealing to soloer's and people trying to level quicker, but even SS and PoF used to be hard.  Now they are a joke.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote></blockquote><p>When the game was released, Nek Forrest was one of those zones people avoided. You'd see giant hunting parties forming in TS all the time, but I don't recall ever seeing a group form specifically for Nek Forrest, unless it was for an HQ or to head to Nek Castle. TS was far more popular.</p></blockquote><p>FWIW, I remember joining nek groups.  In particular I remember spending 6 hours killing about 1000 giants in nek to get the rare giant spirit for L&L update.</p><p>I also require groups working on the heritages in nek, then later bloodlines groups.</p><p>All in all though, I think the doom and gloom and VERY annoying zone lay out was the real reason people prefered grouping in TS over Nek.  The added shortcut paths and tunnels have helped the zone, but it still is in general a PITA that most of us would assume avoid unless compelled there by a specific quest.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Xil wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know the seperation of group and solo content is why people have so much trouble finding groups and spend so much time soloing in the first place right?</p><p>Which also has the effect of segregating the population further for higher teir group content because so much of the population never learned to group on their way up....  Ironic.</p><p>Why is there group content in my solo content /cry....</p><p>A) ...puorg ot nrael ll'uoy ebyam oS</p><p>Instead of being worthless in the majority of group content later...</p></blockquote><p>Actually ever since SoE made the vast amout of solo quests that give really good rewards and give that questing is the only really good way of getting AA....SoE basicly killed the grouping game until you get to the cap.</p><p>Why would people level slower, get crappier rewards, and hamper their AA exp gain by grouping?</p>

[uberpaco]

<p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>IMO there should be more heroics peppered into the solo mobs.</p><p>The outside zones are just too safe. People don't try to avoid camps of mobs they run right through the middle of them with no fear of dying.</p><p>I miss the old days when you had to pay attention where you were going and even then you had a good chance of agroing something that could very well kill you.</p><p>Nek forest when the game released anyone? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> Now look what it has evolved into....</p></blockquote><p>When the piranna were hunting you, all over sea and land all over the zone. and they were heroics. Slayer of pretty much all and everything. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Ah, the things we complained about then we remember fondly now.</p>

[Zarador]

<p><cite>Xil wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know the seperation of group and solo content is why people have so much trouble finding groups and spend so much time soloing in the first place right?</p><p>Which also has the effect of segregating the population further for higher teir group content because so much of the population never learned to group on their way up....  Ironic.</p><p>Why is there group content in my solo content /cry....</p><p>A) ...puorg ot nrael ll'uoy ebyam oS</p><p>Instead of being worthless in the majority of group content later...</p></blockquote><p>The "seperation" came when people discovered that they disliked grouping.  Any "Solo" content in the game can be easily done by a group that will gain the rewards far faster than a solo player would.  Ironic that the same people who claim that grouping is the best way to have fun will avoid every chance for a group if the reward is not big enough.</p><p>A good case in point would be to look at the crafting missions.  I can solo one in about 2 hours with ease and have a chance at a smaller loot table in the end or I can group with 6 crafters and polish it off in 15 minutes with ease.  Yet, you have people that won't group them because they might miss out on the best rewards if they loose the roll.  Better to craft for two hours non-stop than share with a stranger.  Me, I prefer to do the missions with friends, have fun while doing it and get a shot at the loot even faster while gaining easy faction.</p><p>There is a difference between grouping because you enjoy playing and socializing with others and grouping because you have no choice to group.  The fact that so many players complained that they were "forced" to do solo quests when they could have taken the same band of adventurers with them and accomplished it even faster proves that most players, given the chance would solo.</p>

[Thunndar316]

<p>Theres a named up there?</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>IMO there should be more heroics peppered into the solo mobs.</p><p>The outside zones are just too safe. People don't try to avoid camps of mobs they run right through the middle of them with no fear of dying.</p><p>I miss the old days when you had to pay attention where you were going and even then you had a good chance of agroing something that could very well kill you.</p><p>Nek forest when the game released anyone? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> Now look what it has evolved into....</p></blockquote><p>OMG red-ink the calendar ... Kizee & I completely agree AGAIN.</p><p>That crashing sound you hear is Western Civilization collapsing from the shock <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>Zarador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The "seperation" came when people discovered that they disliked grouping. </p></blockquote><p>When did "people" discover "they disliked grouping", & precisely who were "they"???</p>

[cronar]

<p>The gentleman's point is, people generally will not take a full group through a sea of non heroics to kill one single ^^^ named, even for a quest. </p><p>If it is a single named at the end of a solo quest line, it makes sense to keep him solo con in line with the quest. Make him a *little* tougher than a standard ^ named, but make him in line with the rest. It is common sense.</p>

[Zarador]

<p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Zarador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The "seperation" came when people discovered that they disliked grouping. </p></blockquote><p>When did "people" discover "they disliked grouping", & precisely who were "they"???</p></blockquote><p>Forgive my dramatic response to the post that I was responding too.  The "they" that I refer to are those players that insist that grouping is the best way to have fun (which often it is); while at the same time explaining that they won't waste their time grouping with others if they can do it by themselves.</p><p>I happen to enjoy grouping with my family.  I can't tell you how many quests I have repeated with little to no reward just to experience that content with them.  That to me is a demonstration of what "enjoyable grouping" is.</p><p>It may be just my perception in the matter, but I feel that many players who insist that grouping is the only way the game should be played do so because they want the greater rewards that require a group to obtain.  That of course is fully acceptable because many of us do play for the rewards, but don't sell it as the only way to have fun (sic) if your really just there for the chest at the end of the instance.</p><p>I've been in groups that accomplished very little during the session yet had a great deal of fun. I've been in groups that felt like a military march with great rewards but little fun.  Then there are those wonderful groups where everyone is having a blast, getting great drops and discovering that hours have passed and log off time has arrived all but too soon.</p><p>I guess in the end I was trying to say that many groups have an attitude of "If I could do this by myself, I wouldn't need you" which I think is where people get "seperated".</p>

[infy567]

<p>Back in September of 2005, Sony released a patch that caused me to quit for almost four months. In that patch, they changed all of the mobs in Antonica to ^ or ^^ or even ^^^. They were hard enough to start, but now double and triple heroic? All of the mobs in the down below suddenly became ^ ^^ or ^^^ and it was insane. On top of that, they totally nerfed our characters, changing spell icons, putting spells on the same timers, etc. The nerf and the triple heroic mobs was enough to say forget it. It was impossible to solo.Now Antonica is balanced, the down below is balanced. The Crypt of Betrayal is another matter, watch out for that wandering level 26 ^^^, who killed me numerous times.I love Nek Forest - it is my favorite zone right now. I just hit level 35 with my Fury and have really enjoyed the place. It used to be virtually impossible to go in there unless you were at least 30ish and you had to be grouped.The TS is a zone I avoid, and only go back to find nameds for AAs now. There are way too many ^^^ mobs in there compared to Nek. It is harder to solo TS than it is Nek. Enchanted Lands is hard to solo as well because there are ^^^ mobs everywhere. I hate that zone. Not sure what I'm going to do after I finish Nek. Zek is just as bad. Two drab zones that require me to stand on the docs and look for groups because everything is either a ^^^ mob or sits in the middle of dozens of ^^^ mobs.</p>

[zaneluke]

<p><cite>Danger@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The gentleman's point is, people generally will not take a full group through a sea of non heroics to kill one single ^^^ named, even for a quest. </p><p>If it is a single named at the end of a solo quest line, it makes sense to keep him solo con in line with the quest. Make him a *little* tougher than a standard ^ named, but make him in line with the rest. It is common sense.</p></blockquote><p>NO.</p><p>If it is the mob I am thinking about the last step of the quest requires you to kill him to get a legendary reward. If it is a diff mob than i apologize.</p>

[Faenril]

<p><cite>Zarador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Any "Solo" content in the game can be easily done by a group that will gain the rewards far faster than a solo player would.</p></blockquote><p>Actually not, unless you have your static daily group (your case apparently) and that's part of the grief the "groupers" had against the "soloers" (or solo timelines design).</p><p>Best example is ROK:</p><p>Plenty of solo timelines designed as chains of 5 quests or more. Some quests do not update groupwide, but instead require each group member to get the update individually, sometimes adding to the timesink.</p><p>When ROK came out I ran the questlines with varying groups of 3 to 6 friends (pvp servers were pretty hot by that time and going solo was not wise). It was really painfull, because the group not being every day the same setup, and ppl not logging at the same time, forced us to redo the same quests 3 or 4 times to be able to advance, because Joe or Bill was "late". Progressing your own quest made no sense if others were "behind", because you knew you would have to do it again for them eventually.</p><p>So the consequence overall was that it took much longer than soloing. On my last toon I ran the quests solo and was much faster in the end.</p>

[zaneluke]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Lately this plague of annoyance has been actively removed from Norrath. There's only a few places where heroic content is freely mixed with solo. Mainly old world stuff. I believe the doctrine was along the lines of overland zones being largely solo mobs with soloable nameds. Heroics being "stand alone" and away from the rest of the mobs.</p><p>Imagine my chagrin after fighting all the way through the Thullosian hordes in Guk (all solo mobs all the way up) hoping to find a named for AA somewhere when I reach the top and the named is a ^^ heroic mob. To say I was annoyed is putting it mildly.</p><p>I was playing my Troub so soloing a mob like that is suicide. I tried it anyway but he was autoattacking me for 1600+ damage. Even with mezz and slow heal, by the time I had got it to 75% HP it was about time for all the other mobs nearby to repop. A long stifle attack didnt help either.</p><p>If your going to put a heroic named somewhere then please make the surrounding mobs heroic. If not, then make the named a ^ named.</p><p>This isnt a group/solo rant or anything, just a plea to be consistent with your mob placements.</p></blockquote><p>Also, a ^^ heroic CAN be soloed by some classes and uoed by many many more. While your class,gear AA set-up might be diff. I know plenty a troub who can solo heroic mobs given the room.</p>

[Xil]

<p><cite>Zarador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xil wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know the seperation of group and solo content is why people have so much trouble finding groups and spend so much time soloing in the first place right?</p><p>Which also has the effect of segregating the population further for higher teir group content because so much of the population never learned to group on their way up....  Ironic.</p><p>Why is there group content in my solo content /cry....</p><p>A) ...puorg ot nrael ll'uoy ebyam oS</p><p>Instead of being worthless in the majority of group content later...</p></blockquote><p>The "seperation" came when people discovered that they disliked grouping.  Any "Solo" content in the game can be easily done by a group that will gain the rewards far faster than a solo player would.  Ironic that the same people who claim that grouping is the best way to have fun will avoid every chance for a group if the reward is not big enough.</p><p>A good case in point would be to look at the crafting missions.  I can solo one in about 2 hours with ease and have a chance at a smaller loot table in the end or I can group with 6 crafters and polish it off in 15 minutes with ease.  Yet, you have people that won't group them because they might miss out on the best rewards if they loose the roll.  Better to craft for two hours non-stop than share with a stranger.  Me, I prefer to do the missions with friends, have fun while doing it and get a shot at the loot even faster while gaining easy faction.</p><p>There is a difference between grouping because you enjoy playing and socializing with others and grouping because you have no choice to group.  The fact that so many players complained that they were "forced" to do solo quests when they could have taken the same band of adventurers with them and accomplished it even faster proves that most players, given the chance would solo.</p></blockquote><p>It's a group focused game.  It's been that way from the begining.  It's not meant to be a solo friendly game.  So why cry about it?</p><p>And I think by everyone you mean "Me"... (your personal feelings are not shared by anyone but yourself, so let's get past that hurdle)</p><p>Crafters solo the crafting instances because they want all the rewards from them..  It's pretty simple.  You can clear a crafting instance in 15 minutes with a full party but then you have to split the rewards 6 ways too.  It has nothing to do with how much people like or dislike grouping.</p><p>Complaining about not easily being able to solo things in a group focused game is like complaining about how much you hate italian food at the Olive Garden...  If you don't like it do something else.  I mean sure the OG has steak and burgers but why go to an Italian Restraunt for Steak and Burgers?  Seems pretty stupid doesn't it...</p>

[Gungo]

<p>A double up heroic IS solo content. At worst it is small group content for 2 undergeared people.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>infy567 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Back in September of 2005, Sony released a patch that caused me to quit for almost four months. In that patch, they changed all of the mobs in Antonica to ^ or ^^ or even ^^^. They were hard enough to start, but now double and triple heroic? All of the mobs in the down below suddenly became ^ ^^ or ^^^ and it was insane. On top of that, they totally nerfed our characters, changing spell icons, putting spells on the same timers, etc. The nerf and the triple heroic mobs was enough to say forget it. It was impossible to solo.Now Antonica is balanced, the down below is balanced. The Crypt of Betrayal is another matter, watch out for that wandering level 26 ^^^, who killed me numerous times.I love Nek Forest - it is my favorite zone right now. I just hit level 35 with my Fury and have really enjoyed the place. It used to be virtually impossible to go in there unless you were at least 30ish and you had to be grouped.The TS is a zone I avoid, and only go back to find nameds for AAs now. There are way too many ^^^ mobs in there compared to Nek. It is harder to solo TS than it is Nek. Enchanted Lands is hard to solo as well because there are ^^^ mobs everywhere. I hate that zone. Not sure what I'm going to do after I finish Nek. Zek is just as bad. Two drab zones that require me to stand on the docs and look for groups because everything is either a ^^^ mob or sits in the middle of dozens of ^^^ mobs.</p></blockquote><p>Do we even play the same game?</p><p>Alot of the overland mobs were heroic when the game first released and then nerfed down to solo. SoE never went the other way so I don't know where you came up with them changing solo mobs to heroic.</p><p>You mean nek forest that its impossiable to die from anything because 95% of the zone is non agro? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> It wasn't impossiable to go in there below 35..... I HAD to cross thru that place when it was a deathtrap at level 15 doing betrayal back in the day where EVERYTHING was heroic and used to path across the road.</p><p>You might want to go check EL and Zek again because most of those zones are solo now also....yes, there is some heroic stuff but most of it is solo.</p><p>The only heroic outside zone left is Lavastorm which is getting nerfed in 2 LU's to another solo snorefest.</p>

[infy567]

<p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do we even play the same game?</p><p>Alot of the overland mobs were heroic when the game first released and then nerfed down to solo. SoE never went the other way so I don't know where you came up with them changing solo mobs to heroic.</p><p>You mean nek forest that its impossiable to die from anything because 95% of the zone is non agro? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> It wasn't impossiable to go in there below 35..... I HAD to cross thru that place when it was a deathtrap at level 15 doing betrayal back in the day where EVERYTHING was heroic and used to path across the road.</p><p>You might want to go check EL and Zek again because most of those zones are solo now also....yes, there is some heroic stuff but most of it is solo.</p><p>The only heroic outside zone left is Lavastorm which is getting nerfed in 2 LU's to another solo snorefest.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, they were Heroic back in 2004, but in 2005 they were nerfed down, then put back up again, then nerfed back down in 2006.All I'm getting at is that I like the way that Nek is. I'm not a hard core player. I enjoy following quests to the very end, even if those quests are grey. I can understand that places like Stormhold or Windstalker Rumbler are going to require groups to go into. I don't even pick those quests up now unless I absolutely have to. I'm not asking for a cake walk, but when you can barely do anything in the zone without Grouping, it takes a lot of fun out of the game for me. I'm a straight up soloer who will group occassionally, but prefer to go alone.At least it isn't like back in 2005 when you had those damned soul shards. Dying then trying to get the soul shard and dying again, then dying again, and after four-five times, your character is so nerfed that you basically can't even play it for a week - that sucked. Had several friends at that time who were trying EQ2 from WOW, and ended up going back to WOW because of the soul shards, exp debt. and no ability to solo.</p>

[BriarHaven]

<p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xil wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know the seperation of group and solo content is why people have so much trouble finding groups and spend so much time soloing in the first place right?</p><p>Which also has the effect of segregating the population further for higher teir group content because so much of the population never learned to group on their way up....  Ironic.</p><p>Why is there group content in my solo content /cry....</p><p>A) ...puorg ot nrael ll'uoy ebyam oS</p><p>Instead of being worthless in the majority of group content later...</p></blockquote><p>Actually ever since SoE made the vast amout of solo quests that give really good rewards and give that questing is the only really good way of getting AA....SoE basicly killed the grouping game until you get to the cap.</p><p>Why would people level slower, get crappier rewards, and hamper their AA exp gain by grouping?</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: x-small; color: #3366ff;">Actually, lowered population player base does effect this.  </span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small; color: #3366ff;">Also, the rewards for grouping outdoors, doing heroics, are poor.   For example, I observe grouped heroics designed for groups, never being accessed.   Why is this?  The rewards are too poor to be worth it.       Thus, it is the rewards levels, not the solo content, bottom line which is the issue.    I think they should create a randomizer for drops or create more useful drops outside of dungeons to encourage grouping outside.   I don't believe creating linked mobs and forcing people to group is the answer.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   Inside dungeon grouping is alive and well and is so from early levels forward.   Currently, decent <span style="text-decoration: underline;">rewards are normally obtained here</span> and this is where on observes the major grouping not outdoors.    </span></p><p><span><span style="color: #3366ff;"><span style="font-size: x-small;"><span style="color: #3366ff;">In sum, better rewards are needed for grouping in zones outside of dungeons not more linked mobs.   I personally believe a mix of content is important for the game's survival long term with much competition on the market (solo and group content are needed).  But that the rewards do need to be reviewed for current group content outdoors. </span>    </span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;"> </span></p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>infy567 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do we even play the same game?</p><p>Alot of the overland mobs were heroic when the game first released and then nerfed down to solo. SoE never went the other way so I don't know where you came up with them changing solo mobs to heroic.</p><p>You mean nek forest that its impossiable to die from anything because 95% of the zone is non agro? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> It wasn't impossiable to go in there below 35..... I HAD to cross thru that place when it was a deathtrap at level 15 doing betrayal back in the day where EVERYTHING was heroic and used to path across the road.</p><p>You might want to go check EL and Zek again because most of those zones are solo now also....yes, there is some heroic stuff but most of it is solo.</p><p>The only heroic outside zone left is Lavastorm which is getting nerfed in 2 LU's to another solo snorefest.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, they were Heroic back in 2004, but in 2005 they were nerfed down, then put back up again, then nerfed back down in 2006.All I'm getting at is that I like the way that Nek is. I'm not a hard core player. I enjoy following quests to the very end, even if those quests are grey. I can understand that places like Stormhold or Windstalker Rumbler are going to require groups to go into. I don't even pick those quests up now unless I absolutely have to. I'm not asking for a cake walk, but when you can barely do anything in the zone without Grouping, it takes a lot of fun out of the game for me. I'm a straight up soloer who will group occassionally, but prefer to go alone.At least it isn't like back in 2005 when you had those damned soul shards. Dying then trying to get the soul shard and dying again, then dying again, and after four-five times, your character is so nerfed that you basically can't even play it for a week - that sucked. Had several friends at that time who were trying EQ2 from WOW, and ended up going back to WOW because of the soul shards, exp debt. and no ability to solo.</p></blockquote><p>I don't remember them changing them from solo to heroic..... are you sure that they didn't just nerf them down to solo grouped mobs and you mistook them for heroics?</p><p>It doesn't matter if you are a hard core player or not....some challenge in a game is a good thing and running around a nonagro zone not worrying about any mobs is a big snoozefest.</p><p>IMO the soul shards were a good way to do a death penelty and I miss not having them in the game since there is absolutely no penelty to dying now. Hell, I even use it to travel back to cities to complete quests faster.</p><p>If you lost 1-2 soul shards it wasn't a big deal but if you never went back for them it was your fault. There was absolutely no reason to have so many shards lost that it would cripple your character.</p>

[infy567]

<p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It doesn't matter if you are a hard core player or not....some challenge in a game is a good thing and running around a nonagro zone not worrying about any mobs is a big snoozefest.</p><p>IMO the soul shards were a good way to do a death penelty and I miss not having them in the game since there is absolutely no penelty to dying now. Hell, I even use it to travel back to cities to complete quests faster.</p><p>If you lost 1-2 soul shards it wasn't a big deal but if you never went back for them it was your fault. There was absolutely no reason to have so many shards lost that it would cripple your character.</p></blockquote><p>Soul Shards sucked, period. Soul Shards = forced grouping. If you died solo deep in say Crypt of Betrayal, all the mobs have respawned, you then had to fight your way back in with a character that was crippled. If you died again, you were further crippled. If you died AGAIN, well, go play some other game, or roll a new toon becausey our char was now unplayable.Absolutely no reason to have so many shards lost? Right, go get a group.</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>infy567 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Back in September of 2005, Sony released a patch that caused me to quit for almost four months. In that patch, they changed all of the mobs in Antonica to ^ or ^^ or even ^^^.</p></blockquote><p>I was here that month, & remember NO such patch. Ant & CL were both loaded with heroics all along, from Noember 2004 until they patched them all out.</p><p>I don't remember exactly when they were patched out, but I very clearly remember no such patch beefing them UP, then another one back down again to what they are today.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>infy567 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It doesn't matter if you are a hard core player or not....some challenge in a game is a good thing and running around a nonagro zone not worrying about any mobs is a big snoozefest.</p><p>IMO the soul shards were a good way to do a death penelty and I miss not having them in the game since there is absolutely no penelty to dying now. Hell, I even use it to travel back to cities to complete quests faster.</p><p>If you lost 1-2 soul shards it wasn't a big deal but if you never went back for them it was your fault. There was absolutely no reason to have so many shards lost that it would cripple your character.</p></blockquote><p>Soul Shards sucked, period. Soul Shards = forced grouping. If you died solo deep in say Crypt of Betrayal, all the mobs have respawned, you then had to fight your way back in with a character that was crippled. If you died again, you were further crippled. If you died AGAIN, well, go play some other game, or roll a new toon becausey our char was now unplayable.Absolutely no reason to have so many shards lost? Right, go get a group.</p></blockquote><p>LOL</p><p>Soul shards have absolutely nothing to do with forced grouping so don't give me that. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> You could get them just as easily soloing as in a group.</p><p>If you think having some of your combat abiltities hampered is bad....try being naked when you died and have the clock ticking until your corpse rots with all your equip on it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> It wasn't uncommon to have a set or 2 of extra armor and weapons in your bank for the rare chance that happened.</p><p>Soul shards were a fair system to add some sort of penelty to dying. It was all on the players shoulders if they wanted to invest the time to go get the shard or just wait until it absorbed. It was their choice.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>Ok, people misunderstood me. I have nothing at all against grouping. I spend about 60-65% of my time in a group of one form or another. I really dont have any problem with heroics in overland content either. My problem is mixing the two together in close proximity. What the devs should have done is have the lower bit as solo v and _ mobs, middle bit as _ and ^ mobs and the last section ^^ and the final named as a ^^^.</p><p>Having fought all the way up there in a totally solo area then having a heroic mob as the named feels like the devs turning round and flicking the V's at soloers saying...ha! you fought all the way up here for nothing.</p><p>If you fought all the way to the end of a dungeon fighting ^^^ mobs, taking great care not to get adds or wipe and gaining body loot at best only to find the last named is an epic x4 you have no hope of killing with a single group, you would kind of get what I am on about. Putting a shout out in guild for a group to kill a ^^ mob that will almost certainly drop wood wont get much result either.</p><p>There's also not much worse for a soloer finding a group steamrolling over all the mobs you need to get to that one named thats heroic wandering around in the middle of all the v and _ mobs.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok, people misunderstood me. I have nothing at all against grouping. I spend about 60-65% of my time in a group of one form or another. I really dont have any problem with heroics in overland content either. My problem is mixing the two together in close proximity. What the devs should have done is have the lower bit as solo v and _ mobs, middle bit as _ and ^ mobs and the last section ^^ and the final named as a ^^^.</p><p>Having fought all the way up there in a totally solo area then having a heroic mob as the named feels like the devs turning round and flicking the V's at soloers saying...ha! you fought all the way up here for nothing.</p><p>If you fought all the way to the end of a dungeon fighting ^^^ mobs, taking great care not to get adds or wipe and gaining body loot at best only to find the last named is an epic x4 you have no hope of killing with a single group, you would kind of get what I am on about. Putting a shout out in guild for a group to kill a ^^ mob that will almost certainly drop wood wont get much result either.</p><p>There's also not much worse for a soloer finding a group steamrolling over all the mobs you need to get to that one named thats heroic wandering around in the middle of all the v and _ mobs.</p></blockquote><p>Who fights anywhere these days? Just train up there! Choo choo!!</p>

[zaneluke]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok, people misunderstood me.</p><p><span style="color: #00ff00;">No, most people did understand you. Read the responses.</span></p><p>If you fought all the way to the end of a dungeon fighting ^^^ mobs, taking great care not to get adds or wipe and gaining body loot at best only to find the last named is an epic x4 you have no hope of killing with a single group, you would kind of get what I am on about.</p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Not even apples to apples on that. BUT, if you went through an entire ^^^ dungeon and there was an Epix x2 it would be the same thing. And there are a few places where that happens. x2 epics mixed in with ^^^ mobs. </span></blockquote>

[GrunEQ]

<p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I hate the bait and switch that some quests are...you can solo till the end...and then need a group...big PITA, which means I only come back when it's good and grey...not fun.  I understand your pain.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">If it's a solo quest, it should stay a solo quest all the way thru.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">I have to also agree that if the rewards are good, people will come.  So many times, really most of the time (unfortunately) I find rewards a let down because they are lower than the levels mobs you had to fight. blah!  If there are nice rewards at level at least...then I think you will find the content being used...empty places pretty much indicate the reward vs effort is not in proportion.</span></p>

[Vanderlay]

<p><cite>infy567 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do we even play the same game?</p><p>Alot of the overland mobs were heroic when the game first released and then nerfed down to solo. SoE never went the other way so I don't know where you came up with them changing solo mobs to heroic.</p><p>You mean nek forest that its impossiable to die from anything because 95% of the zone is non agro? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> It wasn't impossiable to go in there below 35..... I HAD to cross thru that place when it was a deathtrap at level 15 doing betrayal back in the day where EVERYTHING was heroic and used to path across the road.</p><p>You might want to go check EL and Zek again because most of those zones are solo now also....yes, there is some heroic stuff but most of it is solo.</p><p>The only heroic outside zone left is Lavastorm which is getting nerfed in 2 LU's to another solo snorefest.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, they were Heroic back in 2004, but in 2005 they were nerfed down, then put back up again, then nerfed back down in 2006.All I'm getting at is that I like the way that Nek is. I'm not a hard core player. I enjoy following quests to the very end, even if those quests are grey. I can understand that places like Stormhold or Windstalker Rumbler are going to require groups to go into. I don't even pick those quests up now unless I absolutely have to. I'm not asking for a cake walk, but when you can barely do anything in the zone without Grouping, it takes a lot of fun out of the game for me. I'm a straight up soloer who will group occassionally, but prefer to go alone.At least it isn't like back in 2005 when you had those damned soul shards. Dying then trying to get the soul shard and dying again, then dying again, and after four-five times, your character is so nerfed that you basically can't even play it for a week - that sucked. Had several friends at that time who were trying EQ2 from WOW, and ended up going back to WOW because of the soul shards, exp debt. and no ability to solo.</p></blockquote><p>So because you don't like the fact that there might possibly be a "harder" mob in a zone,  we should dumb it down so you can pass by it or finish your solo quest line?  This made me laugh for a few minutes.  If soloing is your thing, then that's fine, but you're the only one I've seen complain about this on the forums as of late.</p><p>They already made it a cake walk from 1-80, so why make it that much easier?  I started a warden this past weekend and in playing her most of the weekend I'm already close to 40 and didn't even TRY to level.  I have no problem with solo questlines or rewards but when 90% of all overland zones are currently soloable, why make that last 10% soloable as well?</p><p>Too many times soloer's complain about the lack of quests and content available to them and that it upsets the balance of the game that there are so many more grouping areas, rather than soloable areas.  From the noob island to TSO it's a soloer's paradise.  Almost every overland area is completely soloable.  So where's the balance for the groupers?  We're restricted to instances and open dungeons now.  As a grouper I have no problem with that, but you don't see too many people that group complaining that the areas they can actually group in and get decent xp and rewards out of has diminished significantly.</p><p>Bottom line is that SOE needs to keep a balance in the game for all player types and if RARELY there is a ^^ named in an area, you might have to (oh my god I can't believe that I have to!) ask for a quick hand.  Hell you wouldn't even have to talk to anyone, just a few quick typed lines would probably be enough to help you finish your quest.  Once the mob is dead, you can emote /wave goodbye and then /disband.  Not very hard to do if you're skilled enough.</p>

[Vanderlay]

<p><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I hate the bait and switch that some quests are...you can solo till the end...and then need a group...big PITA, which means I only come back when it's good and grey...not fun.  I understand your pain.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">If it's a solo quest, it should stay a solo quest all the way thru.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">I have to also agree that if the rewards are good, people will come.  So many times, really most of the time (unfortunately) I find rewards a let down because they are lower than the levels mobs you had to fight. blah!  If there are nice rewards at level at least...then I think you will find the content being used...empty places pretty much indicate the reward vs effort is not in proportion.</span></p></blockquote><p>It's not even a matter of effort versus reward, it's a matter of why bother grouping in The Roost for example when you will blow through levels 50-60 within a few hours of doing solo quests.  If the overland areas were still filled up with harder mobs, you would see more people grouping for better gear in order to survive.  Unfortunately SOE has taken the challenge out of most of the overland zones now and people can go from 1-80 quite quickly.</p>

[infy567]

<p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL</p><p>Soul shards have absolutely nothing to do with forced grouping so don't give me that. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> You could get them just as easily soloing as in a group.</p><p>If you think having some of your combat abiltities hampered is bad....try being naked when you died and have the clock ticking until your corpse rots with all your equip on it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> It wasn't uncommon to have a set or 2 of extra armor and weapons in your bank for the rare chance that happened.</p><p>Soul shards were a fair system to add some sort of penelty to dying. It was all on the players shoulders if they wanted to invest the time to go get the shard or just wait until it absorbed. It was their choice.</p></blockquote><p>Ok, EQ2 and getting soul shards was easy - for you. For the rest of us, soul shards meant forced grouping. Don't want to die? Group so your chances are better. Soul Shards meant grouping in order to avoid the massive penalties. In the end, it wasn't worth it and I left EQ2 until they got rid of the shards. After that, it was insanely fun.I understand being naked when you died, I played UO out of the gate and then for five years. It was outrageously hard when there wasn't a bank to have spare sets of armor. Penalties on dying sucks, period. Players have biched about this kind of stupid pointless death crap for years - and gaming companies have finally come around. The current games - LOTRO, WOW, EQ2 - none of these have such huge sacrifices on death because it turns players off. If you are losing experience to the point where you have to play for days to get it back - it gets old quick. Death is a huge issue in Vanguard - you do NOT want to die because the consequences are extreme. Experience debt and loss of equipment is baloney and the coders who thought it up should be flogged. Period. It seems to me like you are the kind of hard core player that gets off on this kind of stuff. Maybe you should petition Sony to create a server where you can be happy with every mob being ^ or greater, massive penalties for death, etc. Or maybe, you should just go play Vanguard.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>infy567 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL</p><p>Soul shards have absolutely nothing to do with forced grouping so don't give me that. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> You could get them just as easily soloing as in a group.</p><p>If you think having some of your combat abiltities hampered is bad....try being naked when you died and have the clock ticking until your corpse rots with all your equip on it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> It wasn't uncommon to have a set or 2 of extra armor and weapons in your bank for the rare chance that happened.</p><p>Soul shards were a fair system to add some sort of penelty to dying. It was all on the players shoulders if they wanted to invest the time to go get the shard or just wait until it absorbed. It was their choice.</p></blockquote><p>Ok, EQ2 and getting soul shards was easy - for you. For the rest of us, soul shards meant forced grouping. Don't want to die? Group so your chances are better. Soul Shards meant grouping in order to avoid the massive penalties. In the end, it wasn't worth it and I left EQ2 until they got rid of the shards. After that, it was insanely fun.I understand being naked when you died, I played UO out of the gate and then for five years. It was outrageously hard when there wasn't a bank to have spare sets of armor. Penalties on dying sucks, period. Players have biched about this kind of stupid pointless death crap for years - and gaming companies have finally come around. The current games - LOTRO, WOW, EQ2 - none of these have such huge sacrifices on death because it turns players off. If you are losing experience to the point where you have to play for days to get it back - it gets old quick. Death is a huge issue in Vanguard - you do NOT want to die because the consequences are extreme. Experience debt and loss of equipment is baloney and the coders who thought it up should be flogged. Period. It seems to me like you are the kind of hard core player that gets off on this kind of stuff. Maybe you should petition Sony to create a server where you can be happy with every mob being ^ or greater, massive penalties for death, etc. Or maybe, you should just go play Vanguard.</p></blockquote><p>Again.... soul shards had nothing to do with grouping and back then there was shared exp debt so nobody was grouping because they would get debt from stupid people in the group. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p><p>It isn't pointless to have some sort of penelty to dying. There has to be SOMETHING to deter you from dying or it gets used as a mode of transportation like it is today in EQ2.</p><p>Old school player yes....hardcore...not anymore.</p>

[Zarador]

<p><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I hate the bait and switch that some quests are...you can solo till the end...and then need a group...big PITA, which means I only come back when it's good and grey...not fun.  I understand your pain.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">If it's a solo quest, it should stay a solo quest all the way thru.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">I have to also agree that if the rewards are good, people will come.  So many times, really most of the time (unfortunately) I find rewards a let down because they are lower than the levels mobs you had to fight. blah!  If there are nice rewards at level at least...then I think you will find the content being used...empty places pretty much indicate the reward vs effort is not in proportion.</span></p></blockquote><p>I always felt that quests like that should split off at some point even if they offered a lesser reward in the end.  I hate when I do multiple parts of an interesting quest only to discover that a duo/trio won't be able to finish the quest line (let alone a solo player).</p><p>Maybe something to the effect of sending you off to an instance (maybe one of the famous resused ones) and having you select the content level to finish off the quest line.</p><p>I feel like I did all the running around and was then sent off to the "kids table" to return to killing 10 rats.</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>Zarador wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">I hate the bait and switch that some quests are...you can solo till the end...and then need a group...big PITA, which means I only come back when it's good and grey...not fun.  I understand your pain.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">If it's a solo quest, it should stay a solo quest all the way thru.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Comic Sans MS;">I have to also agree that if the rewards are good, people will come.  So many times, really most of the time (unfortunately) I find rewards a let down because they are lower than the levels mobs you had to fight. blah!  If there are nice rewards at level at least...then I think you will find the content being used...empty places pretty much indicate the reward vs effort is not in proportion.</span></p></blockquote><p>I always felt that quests like that should split off at some point even if they offered a lesser reward in the end.  I hate when I do multiple parts of an interesting quest only to discover that a duo/trio won't be able to finish the quest line (let alone a solo player).</p><p>Maybe something to the effect of sending you off to an instance (maybe one of the famous resused ones) and having you select the content level to finish off the quest line.</p></blockquote><p>I like that idea <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Yimway]

<p>I was solo questing and ran into a challenge I could not overcome, your game is broken.</p>

[Generic123]

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">Maybe that mob was intended for small groups of 2 or 3, or maybe it was intended for solo players looking for s serious challenge.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Just because it isn’t full group content doesn’t mean it’s solo content, and just because you can’t solo it doesn’t mean<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>it isn’t solo content.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was solo questing and ran into a challenge I could not overcome, your game is broken.</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Soul shards wouldn't work that well in T8 since almost the entire heroic/epic tier8 is instanced. If you recall in instances you just click the zone door and get your shard back. There would be no point. If the game was mostly open dungeons then yea, shards would be a real penalty for dying. Now you would just either click the door to the instance to get your shard back, or have to actually run through the zone... but none of the mobs repop so it would be pointless to have as a penalty.</p><p>A month or two before they canned the soul shards they did implement a NPC that would get your shard back for a fee. A full wipe in a shared dungeon does sting. I remember wiping at the bottom of Fallen Gate by the queen and having to respawn in CL and start all over. Or wiping in deep Chardok and having to revive at the enterance. Even dying solo doing solo quests in Narugu Mines or whatever in Fens sucked because you had to fight your way back through. But dying in instances is meaningless. I laugh a little when people get all frustrated and rage quit in instances and raids. Who cares? So you're toon died big deal. I'll give you 5 gold if it pisses you off that much. Sometimes dying is a convenient and quick way to get somewhere. If there were soul shards though, that definately wouldn't be the case.</p>

[Tuppen]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Lately this plague of annoyance has been actively removed from Norrath. There's only a few places where heroic content is freely mixed with solo. Mainly old world stuff. I believe the doctrine was along the lines of overland zones being largely solo mobs with soloable nameds. Heroics being "stand alone" and away from the rest of the mobs.</p><p>Imagine my chagrin after fighting all the way through the Thullosian hordes in Guk (all solo mobs all the way up) hoping to find a named for AA somewhere when I reach the top and the named is a ^^ heroic mob. To say I was annoyed is putting it mildly.</p><p>I was playing my Troub so soloing a mob like that is suicide. I tried it anyway but he was autoattacking me for 1600+ damage. Even with mezz and slow heal, by the time I had got it to 75% HP it was about time for all the other mobs nearby to repop. A long stifle attack didnt help either.</p><p>If your going to put a heroic named somewhere then please make the surrounding mobs heroic. If not, then make the named a ^ named.</p><p>This isnt a group/solo rant or anything, just a plea to be consistent with your mob placements.</p></blockquote><p>If you had cleared all the mobs around the ^^ mob, why didn't you just kite it?  I ran into several solo quests like this with my troubador in Moors and was able to solo the final quest mob if I had cleared sufficiently to allow for me to kite it.  Sure, we can't stand toe to toe and take the beating they give out (especially if we are geared only in mastercrafted or legendary armor), but that's why we have a snare and can cast almost every song and combat art that we have while on the move.</p>

[Armawk]

<p>As a duo we met this fellow and were delighted to see a decent fight looming.. in Kunark and TSO we generally have to overpull or quest at near-orange to make anything challenging.</p><p>He was yellow (2 levels above I think) and made a good close fight of it. I reckon at 80 solo he could be taken.</p><p>I MISS how things used to be.</p>

[bks6721]

<p><cite>Generic123 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">Maybe that mob was intended for small groups of 2 or 3, or maybe it was intended for solo players looking for s serious challenge.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Just because it isn’t full group content doesn’t mean it’s solo content, and just because you can’t solo it doesn’t mean<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>it isn’t solo content.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></p></blockquote><p>I agree completely!  I know exactly which mob is being talked about here and I was able to solo him.  No masters, no epic weapon and I solo'd him.  It was very hard and I nearly lost, but it was fun when he dropped instead of me!</p>

[oreocook]

<p>The OP is not asking for solo mob instance zones he/she is simply stating that the overland should be non-heroic or not peppered with heroic content that hinders or interfers with solo/duo playstyles. I could understand the grief he/she is getting if he/she were asking for heroic/epic instance zones to be reduced to fit a solo/duo play style however, that is not what the OP has requested from this post at all.</p><p>The overlands for those (including myself) who enjoy groups and raiding are nothing more than areas I have always ran through on my way to a group/raid instance zone. I have never been in a group to kill over land heroics unless they were required for a quest of some type. Other than a few quest HQ etc the overland heroics are simply nothing any group would desire to spend hours killing heroic mobs knowing the rewards are not desireable compared to other group/raid content instance zones.</p><p>When eq2 was new there were fewer zones available for heric/epic groups so ppl used the overland for grouping;however, as the game matured so did the opportunity and zones were created that provided and satisfied the appetites of players that enjoyed herioc/epic content. The overlands became dead zones until soe revamped some of the overland areas for solo/duo players, hence, removing the heroic content and adding new quest lines and activity picked up greatly in those areas for new and veterans alike rolling new toons. A perfect example of a successful revamp is "EverFrost" even I have rolled a few new toons and enjoyed all of the new content and quest lines.</p><p>Solo and duo content is not what is killing this game; instead, it is the lack of subscribers to eq2 which is an older game that has gone through so many changes from it creation to present, some good and some bad, and as a result it has lost and gained players and the ups and downs of subscribers has not been consistent as a result.  Lack of advertisement also hinders eq2 from gaining new subscribers. However, keeping old and new subscribers within the game is an assesment only SOE will be able to determine in the end to keep eq2 alive.</p><p>Which is why I agree with the OP because the overland is the first thing that many new players see when they first join the game and by which they will judge all content, even content they have not yet seen or explored. Soloing and duoing provides a great opportunity for an introduction to the game and the game mechanics, it also provides an opportunity to get much needed spells, equipment (rok... example), and plat, to prepare and equip their toons for group content which later will prepare them for raid content. Therefore, heroic content in overland areas serves only as a discouragement resulting in many leaving eq2, rather than an enhancement for a future healthy population in this game. Just because someone solo's/duo's does not mean they will not group or raid, some just need more time either due to time constraints or to learn the game mechanics while outfitting their toon to enjoy all there is to offer in eq2.</p><p>Safe travels to all. </p>

[Armawk]

<p><cite>oreocookie wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The OP is not asking for solo mob instance zones he/she is simply stating that the overland should be non-heroic or not peppered with heroic content that hinders or interfers with solo/duo playstyles. I could understand the grief he/she is getting if he/she were asking for heroic/epic instance zones to be reduced to fit a solo/duo play style however, that is not what the OP has requested from this post at all. </p></blockquote><p>The mob in question is in a corner at the very end of a complicated sequence of ruins. There is positively no way it could be considered to be 'interfering' in anything at all. Its also not a 3up dungeon mob but a 2up overland heroic, which is in no way a 'sudden death' type of thing like grubdigger or somesuch!</p><p>The poster is asking that there be no mobs that are not soloable at even con (a 2up is most certainly soloable once past its level) in any overland zone ever.</p><p>I hope that request is never granted as it would make the game less fun for me and many others.</p>

[zaneluke]

<p><cite>oreocookie wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Which is why I agree with the OP because the overland is the first thing that many new players see when they first join the game and by which they will judge all content, even content they have not yet seen or explored. Soloing and duoing provides a great opportunity for an introduction to the game and the game mechanics, it also provides an opportunity to get much needed spells, equipment (rok... example), and plat, to prepare and equip their toons for group content which later will prepare them for raid content. Therefore, heroic content in overland areas serves only as a discouragement resulting in many leaving eq2, rather than an enhancement for a future healthy population in this game. Just because someone solo's/duo's does not mean they will not group or raid, some just need more time either due to time constraints or to learn the game mechanics while outfitting their toon to enjoy all there is to offer in eq2.</p><p>Safe travels to all. </p></blockquote><p> #1 The mob in question is in a T8 zone.</p><p>#2 some people actually enjoy heroic mobs in overland zones. It PROVIDES A CHALLENGE for some classes to see if they can kill it. You just do not have the wiggle room in dungeons to kill heroics solo.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>Once again, people have misunderstood. I am <strong>not</strong> asking for all overland zones to be solo only. I am asking for areas that are 99.9% solo to not have a heroic put in the middle of said area. Whether its a two up or three up its still a heroic mob and "designed for three or more players". IE not solo.</p><p>I did try to solo the mob unfortunately it easily killed me and you only get one try unless you want to spend another two hours trying to reach him.</p><p>Please dont let your playstyle prejudices cloud over what is (to me)  a mob placement issue. As I have said before I group more than I solo. All playstyles are valid except the ones involving exploits or cheating. Simple as. </p>

[zaneluke]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Once again, people have misunderstood. I am <strong>not</strong> asking for all overland zones to be solo only. I am asking for areas that are 99.9% solo to not have a heroic put in the middle of said area. Whether its a two up or three up its still a heroic mob and "designed for three or more players". IE not solo. <span style="color: #00ff00;">Was the mob in the middle and blocking your path to progress farther? Could you not stealth by it? Coudl you avoid it? </span></p><p>I did try to solo the mob unfortunately it easily killed me and you only get one try unless you want to spend another two hours trying to reach him. <span style="color: #00ff00;">But wasnt it nice to try at least? the rush of actually trying something which might have been out of your reach. Thrill of a challenge? I remember when i used to try to solo that guy in EF with the bear. Even though i died MULTIPLE times I still enjoyed the risk and challenge. I didnt care about teh rewards, was all about the challenge.</span></p><p>Please dont let your playstyle prejudices cloud over what is (to me)  a mob placement issue. As I have said before I group more than I solo. All playstyles are valid except the ones involving exploits or cheating. Simple as. <span style="color: #00ff00;">Pot meet kettle, Your asking for the game to change to fit YOUR playsyle and your capabilities as a solo player. What you might view as a mob placement issue others( and from the count of responses in this thread) think that it is a nice challenge. There are about 10 nice solo ^ 80-83 mobs out in the moors smack in the middle to kill for loot and AA. Why maon and grons about one ^^? Seriously.</span></p></blockquote>

[Xethren]

<p><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was solo questing and ran into a challenge I could not overcome, your game is broken.</p></blockquote><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Soul shards wouldn't work that well in T8 since almost the entire heroic/epic tier8 is instanced. If you recall in instances you just click the zone door and get your shard back. There would be no point. If the game was mostly open dungeons then yea, shards would be a real penalty for dying. Now you would just either click the door to the instance to get your shard back, or have to actually run through the zone... but none of the mobs repop so it would be pointless to have as a penalty.</p><p>A month or two before they canned the soul shards they did implement a NPC that would get your shard back for a fee. A full wipe in a shared dungeon does sting. I remember wiping at the bottom of Fallen Gate by the queen and having to respawn in CL and start all over. Or wiping in deep Chardok and having to revive at the enterance. Even dying solo doing solo quests in Narugu Mines or whatever in Fens sucked because you had to fight your way back through. But dying in instances is meaningless. I laugh a little when people get all frustrated and rage quit in instances and raids. Who cares? So you're toon died big deal. I'll give you 5 gold if it pisses you off that much. Sometimes dying is a convenient and quick way to get somewhere. If there were soul shards though, that definately wouldn't be the case.</p></blockquote><p>Im starting to miss those days, back when you had to get your 'corpse', it made the game more challenging and a bit more punishing. MMO's getting too easy these days. Like Rahat said dying in an instance is pretty much no penatly accept having to run back where you were, as most instances dont repop.</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Once again, people have misunderstood. I am <strong>not</strong> asking for all overland zones to be solo only. I am asking for areas that are 99.9% solo to not have a heroic put in the middle of said area.</p></blockquote><p>I understood your point from the beginning, & completely disagree. I like having the challenge of knowing there MIGHT be something in the area I can't handle; it makes the world feel more "real" & "alive" to me.</p>

[Faenril]

This thread is about a soloable mob in a solo zone <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Generic123]

<p><cite>Guy De Alsace wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Once again, people have misunderstood. I am <strong>not</strong> asking for all overland zones to be solo only. I am asking for areas that are 99.9% solo to not have a heroic put in the middle of said area. Whether its a two up or three up its still a heroic mob and "designed for three or more players". IE not solo.</p></blockquote><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">We understand what you are saying, so now why don’t you slow down and listen to our responses.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>This mob only ^^, not a full ^^^ heroic.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>^^ mobs are solo/small group content.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>As such it’s entirely suitable for an overland zone.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;">Yes a ^^ mob is a challenge for a solo player, that means you shouldn’t expect to walk up and kill it the first time out.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Switch tactics, upgrade your gear, tinker with your build, that’s what games like EQ2 are all about.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>If you can just walk up to anything in the zone and kill it no mater what your build, tactics, class, gear, etc then what is the point?</span></p><blockquote><p>I did try to solo the mob unfortunately it easily killed me and you only get one try unless you want to spend another two hours trying to reach him.</p></blockquote><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">It does not take 2 hours to reach him.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>You can reach him easily with racial abilities and if you don’t have access to those abilities you can (and should) buy crafted items that duplicate them.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span></span></span></p>

[Faenril]

with a parachute you can get on it without fighting anything <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Lethe5683]

<p>Heroic nameds are fine but heroic trash in overland zones is a bit much and just kind of stupid since it ruins immersion.</p>

[Armawk]

<p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I like having the challenge of knowing there MIGHT be something in the area I can't handle; it makes the world feel more "real" & "alive" to me.</blockquote><p>Id just like to say YES to this post. Thats how me and my partner feel about many things in the game (including walking past raid zone entrances we will never ever gear up and get to).</p>

[Mishkel]

<p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Nek forest when the game released anyone? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> Now look what it has evolved into....</p></blockquote><p>When the game was released, Nek Forrest was one of those zones people avoided. You'd see giant hunting parties forming in TS all the time, but I don't recall ever seeing a group form specifically for Nek Forrest, unless it was for an HQ or to head to Nek Castle. TS was far more popular.</p></blockquote><p>To this day I still see more people in TS than in Nek. I think that is more because of Nek being dark and gloomy while TS is alot more cheerful.</p><p>My main point is alittle danger is a good thing. People shouldn't be runing through camps of mobs with no fear like they do now.</p><p>And no way should a zone be neutered like Nek was. It was a death trap for any lower level player now I could take a level 1 and afk autorun and come back 10 min later and still not be dead because 3/4 of that zone is non agro now.</p></blockquote><p>This is one of those things that depends greatly on your point of view and no I am not talking about whether there should be "danger" or not.</p><p>For a reference my time with EQ2 started with Friends and Family beta.</p><p>I remember Nek forst and remember it well.. I liked the zone personally.</p><p>One has to also remember in general that game at the time.  You started on the island... The "cave" was group content.. well until people could make AD3's and figured out you could duo it with healer classes (or at least certain healer classes).</p><p>I remember there was Heroic content in Commonlands that people avoided.</p><p>I also remember when I made my Warden.. had my sage ready and solo'd through that (commonlands heroics) and liked to chain pull heroic groups in Nek forest.  Part of why I loved Nek forest.. it was so easy to find masses of stuff to pull that gave great XP.</p><p>That's why I said.. it depends on your point of view.  Many things were different "back then".</p>