Monk Haste and New Stances --Not Working So Well

[mr23sgte]

<p>With the majority of Monk damage coming from hasted auto attack  - roughly 60% will we see any NEEDED changes on upping our delay on weapons from 2.5DW to a higher delay or CA's to make up for the negative effects on the DeF  Stances C/S/P decreaser and - attack modifiers??This mainly seems to hit the Monk class the hardest.</p><p>I'm currently on /test Copy BTW and seeing this as a bad mix.</p>

[Freliant]

<p>If you are in defensive stance, then you should be focusing on keeping agro through taunts and not through dps. Asking for the .5 modifier to be removed is again trying to change the method of agro generation to a dps oriented one instead of a hate oriented one.</p><p>If you want to be dps, go offensive... if you want to tank, go defensive, and if you want to dps without the penalty of a 5 second recast to your stances, then do not select a stance... you do less dps than offensive, but much more than on defensive, and can switch to defensive to pick up a loose mob and not die.</p>

[Morrolan V]

<p><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you are in defensive stance, then you should be focusing on keeping agro through taunts and not through dps.</p></blockquote><p>That's not entirely true for Monks.  A significant portion of our baseline hate generation comes from procs when we hit the mob.  Our dragon rage proc (now combined in the defensive stance) is a big part of it.  Also, the threat component of horse kick is actually LARGER than our single target taunt.  If we can't hit the mob, we can't generate sufficient hate, irrespective of DPS.</p><p>Further, Hereo's point about the .5 modifier hitting monks particularly hard is a good one.  I am looking at a VP zonewide right now.  For the zone, 64% of my damage was from autoattack.  Cut that in half, and I lose basically 1/3 of my DPS potential in defensive stance with the changes.  There were four other fighters on the raid: Bruiser, SK, Zerker and Guard (MT).  Autoattack was 49%, 39%, 51% and 41% of their damage, respectively.  So, the .5 modifer to damage in defensive stance hits monks harder than any other fighter, and MUCH more than some.  My evaluation on testcopy supports this -- my DPS in defensive stance drops considerably more relative to live than does that of the paladin who I have been testing with.</p>

[Aeralik]

<p><cite>Morrolan V wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you are in defensive stance, then you should be focusing on keeping agro through taunts and not through dps.</p></blockquote><p>That's not entirely true for Monks.  A significant portion of our baseline hate generation comes from procs when we hit the mob.  Our dragon rage proc (now combined in the defensive stance) is a big part of it.  Also, the threat component of horse kick is actually LARGER than our single target taunt.  If we can't hit the mob, we can't generate sufficient hate, irrespective of DPS.</p><p>Further, Hereo's point about the .5 modifier hitting monks particularly hard is a good one.  I am looking at a VP zonewide right now.  For the zone, 64% of my damage was from autoattack.  Cut that in half, and I lose basically 1/3 of my DPS potential in defensive stance with the changes.  There were four other fighters on the raid: Bruiser, SK, Zerker and Guard (MT).  Autoattack was 49%, 39%, 51% and 41% of their damage, respectively.  So, the .5 modifer to damage in defensive stance hits monks harder than any other fighter, and MUCH more than some.  My evaluation on testcopy supports this -- my DPS in defensive stance drops considerably more relative to live than does that of the paladin who I have been testing with.</p></blockquote><p>Your autoattack damage isnt cut in half its more like a 23% reduction.</p>

[Morrolan V]

<p>Interesting.  I figured that the .5 damage multiplier decrease would mean a 50% decrease in damage.</p><p>I was seeing more than 23% on test.  Could be group construction.  I'll test it out some more.</p><p>The imbalanced impact to monks remains though - whether it's 23% or 50% or 75%, reduced autoattack hits monks harder than any other fighter.  The across the board .5 multiplier appears balanced, but affects the different classes differently.</p>

[Elanjar]

<p><cite>Morrolan V wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Interesting.  I figured that the .5 damage multiplier decrease would mean a 50% decrease in damage.</p><p>I was seeing more than 23% on test.  Could be group construction.  I'll test it out some more.</p><p>The imbalanced impact to monks remains though - whether it's 23% or 50% or 75%, reduced autoattack hits monks harder than any other fighter.  The across the board .5 multiplier appears balanced, but affects the different classes differently.</p></blockquote><p>I've found its more around 30%. I think if you factor in reduced hit rates due to lower skill bonus's in defensive it would make up the difference. I agree this probably hits monks harder but perhaps this is because your damage multiplier gives you higher gains than the other fighter so therefore a0.5 reduction will be proportionally equal but in the straight numbers it will be a greater redux.</p><p>Us zerkers arent to happy about it either but i suppose i'll live.</p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>Elanjar@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Morrolan V wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Interesting.  I figured that the .5 damage multiplier decrease would mean a 50% decrease in damage.</p><p>I was seeing more than 23% on test.  Could be group construction.  I'll test it out some more.</p><p>The imbalanced impact to monks remains though - whether it's 23% or 50% or 75%, reduced autoattack hits monks harder than any other fighter.  The across the board .5 multiplier appears balanced, but affects the different classes differently.</p></blockquote><p>I've found its more around 30%. I think if you factor in reduced hit rates due to lower skill bonus's in defensive it would make up the difference. I agree this probably hits monks harder but perhaps this is <em><strong>because your damage multiplier gives you higher gains than the other fighter so therefore a0.5 reduction will be proportionally equal but in the straight numbers it will be a greater redux.</strong></em></p><p>Us zerkers arent to happy about it either but i suppose i'll live.</p></blockquote><p>No, Aeralik has stated that every fighter has the same auto attack damage table.</p><p>The 0.5 multiplier needs to be adjusted, otherwise, it's really unfair for melee tanks, especially monk.</p>

[Elanjar]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Elanjar@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Morrolan V wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Interesting.  I figured that the .5 damage multiplier decrease would mean a 50% decrease in damage.</p><p>I was seeing more than 23% on test.  Could be group construction.  I'll test it out some more.</p><p>The imbalanced impact to monks remains though - whether it's 23% or 50% or 75%, reduced autoattack hits monks harder than any other fighter.  The across the board .5 multiplier appears balanced, but affects the different classes differently.</p></blockquote><p>I've found its more around 30%. I think if you factor in reduced hit rates due to lower skill bonus's in defensive it would make up the difference. I agree this probably hits monks harder but perhaps this is <em><strong>because your damage multiplier gives you higher gains than the other fighter so therefore a0.5 reduction will be proportionally equal but in the straight numbers it will be a greater redux.</strong></em></p><p>Us zerkers arent to happy about it either but i suppose i'll live.</p></blockquote><p>No, Aeralik has stated that every fighter has the same auto attack damage table.</p><p>The 0.5 multiplier needs to be adjusted, otherwise, it's really unfair for melee tanks, especially monk.</p></blockquote><p>agreed since my CA's blow</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p>It's still rather unfair that brawlers have stupid 2.5 sec delay weapons while other fighters get 3-4 second delay weapons</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's still rather unfair that brawlers have stupid 2.5 sec delay weapons while other fighters get 3-4 second delay weapons</p></blockquote><p>How is that unfair unless you mean you want your weapons to be 2.5?</p><p>We're suppose to still do more DPS than the other fighter classes, so having naturally faster weapons is part of that process.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The 0.5 multiplier needs to be adjusted, otherwise, it's really unfair for melee tanks, especially monk.<</blockquote><p> Set it to 0.35 and add a 10% base CA damage decrease similar to SKs spell penalty.</p><p>That should balance it a bit better imo.</p>

[ArivenGemini]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's still rather unfair that brawlers have stupid 2.5 sec delay weapons while other fighters get 3-4 second delay weapons</p></blockquote><p>How is that unfair unless you mean you want your weapons to be 2.5?</p><p>We're suppose to still do more DPS than the other fighter classes, so having naturally faster weapons is part of that process.</p></blockquote><p>Faster weapon base rate or faster weapon after haste?  I tend to look for weapons with bigger damage ranges, which tend to be slower base rate weapons.. with the idea that after haste that bigger hit makes for better dps than hasting something with a smaller hit.</p>