VALKOR
01-24-2009, 07:04 PM
<p>While the tweaks to parry on defensive stance and wisdom to offensive demonstrate that development is responding to paladin specific issues, we have not had the repeated concerns regarding Amends/Restitution addressed since Aeralik made his post on January 7th. It initially seemed like all hate transfer/siphons were being removed, and so while paladins could be understandably upset, it was going to be an across the board change to all tanks to make them responsible for their aggro as Aeralik indicated. However, both the guardian and the monk have retained their permanent hate modification abilities whereas the paladins' ability has been completely removed. What I am asking for, Kiara, is an explanation for why paladins do not simply have a drastically reduced hate siphon so that all 3 single target tanks - guardian, paladin, and monk - enjoy a permanent hate modification ability.Guardians have the ability to significantly increase a scout or mages DPS by placing moderation on them to reduce that ally's hate and guardians can generate hate every time a mob damages them or 50% of the time when they block. Monks enjoy a 9% hate sipon they can place on an ally and a 10 times per minute hate proc on successful melee attacks. These are wonderful always on, no power cost, never interruptable abilities that contribute significantly to a tank's sustainable aggro generation as they are always available and always transferring/procing at the specified percentage or rate.Paladins have a hate proc once every 37.5 seconds. That's it. Seriously, that's it for automatic hate. They are the only single target tank without any permanent benefical hate modification to place on an ally and the only one with nothing but a 1.6 proc for always on, never interruptable, no power cost hate.Clearly, Amends needed to be drastically reduced but no reason has ever been given for its removal, especially in light of the simple fact that permanent hate modification are still available to both single target tanks. Many paladins on this board and a number of others including brawlers, scouts, mages, guardians, and berserkers, have looked at the numbers and the playtest results and agreed that paladins need some form of passive hate. The solution is quite simple and similar ones have been made by paladins and even scouts and monks. Make the new Restitution into a single target group-only buff that siphons 11% hate (a 30% reduction from Amends). While not as versatile as the monks ability to siphon 9% from any single target raid-wide or to turn it around and grant a fighter an additional 5% hate, the proposed change to Restititution would have a slightly higher percentage than the monks have and it would not be tied to the dodge buff so it would certainly be comparable.At the very least, we need to understand why we have been given no passive hate gain even close to that granted to both of the other single target tanks. It just doesn't add up. You can't make an ability with a 1 minute recast, power costs, easily interrupted, unusable when stunned/stifled/mezzed/charmed, etc. equivalent to an always on, no power cost, passive hate gain. If a 9% transfer on monks does not break the new design theme, why in the world would it do so for a paladin especially when the monk has a 10 times per minute proc from melee attacks to compensate from whatever additional hate a paladin gains through heals, slightly higher base hate, etc. I'm not trying to pick on monks at all - I am just using their ability since it is the closest to the proposal I am making for Restitution.I certainly appreciate Aeralik answering some of the secondary or tertiary problems posed, but we really need you to find an answer to this central question. Besides all the well-documented game reasons for this, coupled with the feedback from paladins comparing baseline aggro with other single target tanks, there is the community aspect as well. For literally years of game-play now, paladins have developed friendships through groups with characters like brigands, wizards, warlocks, and others who did not have hate transfer and so benefited from this immensely. While both guardians and monks continue to be able to offer hate reduction or hate siphon, the paladin, who used to have the best permanent hate modification in the game, now has absolutely no permanent hate modification at all and there has been no explanation offered for this fundamental change to the class. Since permanent hate modifications are in the new design, and even available to both of the other single target tanks, it is clearly a viable option within the new vision of tanking and as such should be restored to the paladin so that they too, along with guardians and monks, have a permanent hate modification to offer an ally, and they too have a constant stream of base aggro in line with the automatic, no power, aggro generation guardians and monks enjoy. And by all means, tweak the percentage to find the right balance - nobody who enjoys tanking wants an easy button.Ideally, we need an acknowledgment of this problem and a fix like the one recommended here, or at the very least we need an explanation of what actually provides the same always on, no power, automatic hate. Any tank can hold aggro in easy instances - we are talking about the hard ones where it takes all the passive hate a tank generates and their taunts to hold aggro. That is where the utter lack of any continual hate (can we really even count a proc once every 37.5 seconds?) is going to show through, and there are numerous posts that delve into those details.My request here is that you find an answer to this often repeated issue - it was clear Aeralik knew it would be an issue from his initial post, and after waiting for the changes to be in place and going over and specifically testing them with a fellow monk as Aeralik requested, we found that point where his 9% siphon, 10 times per minute proc plus all of his normal taunts were required to maintain aggro pull after pull and the paladin's normal taunts (which is roughly the same #) and single 37.5 second proc could not compete. The 1 minute recast makes Restitution unavailable much of the time in addition to all the other issues with power, control effects, etc. It makes sense on paper that it of course wouldn't be the same and it is confirmed in test when you set all the variables to be the same (if the monk doesn't need snap-aggro to hold it then the paladin shouldn't either - otherwise the paladin will have no hope when a tanking situation actually requires snap-aggros). I'm sorry to digress but it's important to understand that the test obviously has to be calibrated to expose the difference and not paper over it.Thank you very much for your time and effort getting this important issue resolved for the paladin community.</p>