How to make the combat stances more meaningful..

[Vulkan_NTooki]

<p>This is my suggestion as to how to make stances more meaningful without forcing them to be used..</p><p>Intro: Tanks doing more dps than t1 and t2 classes is not an issue about tanks doing to much dps. Its about t1/t2 classes not doing their best to do more dps. Tanks have been forced to specialize in how to do more dps in such a long time just to be able to keep aggro, that when a subpar t1/t2 dps meets a good tank they are baffled that they do more dps than they themselves do. Keep this in mind when I show the suggestions below.</p><p>Defensive: This stance should improve defense abilities, and base aggro. For those encounters that truly need high defense. Using it you will take a hit on dps but u make up for it by taunts.</p><p>Offensive: This stance should improve offensive abilities. U would however take a defensive hit making u more vulnerable.</p><p>Notice the following: By no means will having the stances made like this enforce you to use either. If your gear is sub par you might wanna use defensive all the time just to make sure you survive. Or u prefer possibly to group only 1 healer, and want defensive so he can keep u up. If you have great defensive gear, u might prefer offensive on those zones the mobs really dont hurt u much. The loss of base aggro is made up for by higher dps.</p><p>The problem with the stances today, is that Defensive was not a viable choice for most ppl based on 1 factor alone. Aggro. If aggro is based on dps, then u cant go in a stance that takes away your dps. The simple fix is add aggro by other means to defensive, leaving Offensive stance as is. By doing so u will make defensive a viable option for 2 situations.. a) you need defensive to survive, b) u need defensive to be able to keep aggro. If u dont make Offensive a non tank stance, it will be viable in 2 situations. a) U need more group total dps, b) aggro is not an issue as long as u can use your normal taunts etc.</p><p>If u have top notch gear, skill, spells, and a wicked healer.. going defensive is a waste of time for everyone in the group. Todays changes on test indicates that a tank should ONLY use defensive no matter what type of gear and what type of instance he does. Thats gonna become a huge problem/time sink.</p><p>There should be a buff making taunts into detaunts for fighter, so that they can have a chance at being dps slot in a raid. However u gonna need other things as well.. but this post is not about that issue.</p>

[Besual]

<p>And why do we ANOTHER new thread about this topic? People are discussing this topic in several threads already.</p>

[Vulkan_NTooki]

<p>Because they are debating changes to an existing version on test mixed into countless other changes. (feedback)</p><p>Im offering a new solution to stances and stances only...</p><p>Now, if the feedback threads had been a lil more organized like divided into Hate changes, stance changes, dps changes etc then I most likely would have put it into the stance changes thread, but there is none.. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Eugam]

<p>It still belongs into the test feedback forum. The "potential problems" are not on live.</p>

[Vulkan_NTooki]

<p><cite>Eugam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It still belongs into the test feedback forum. The "potential problems" are not on live.</p></blockquote><p>Darnit.. if you had just waited untill it was off the Recept Topics list I woulda.. :p cursed bumpers..<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Eugam]

<p><cite>Vulkan_NTooki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Eugam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It still belongs into the test feedback forum. The "potential problems" are not on live.</p></blockquote><p>Darnit.. if you had just waited untill it was off the Recept Topics list I woulda.. :p cursed bumpers..<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>LOL, since the thread will vanish soonish anyways i ll give you the answer you are looking for.</p><p>Since they will introduce 12 man 133t raids soonish they need defensive tanks with the ability to hold aggro on their own. X2 raids are very different because key roles like tank and heals allready fill some 25% of the raid. The rest will be buffs, debuffs and a very hard to handle dps mini-crowd.</p>

[Vulkan_NTooki]

<p>Soooo.. the answer to why they make such a drastic change to def/off stances is the upcoming x2 instances in gu52? That sounds like something Aeralik would post.. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Again tho.. one should make the stances attractive for being used in certain situations.. I.e. defensive if u need high defense, extra aggro, offense if u need ekstra dps for those easy zones.. Instead they make them obligatory for certain roles. Defensive if u wanna tank, offensive if u wanna dps.</p><p>My statement stands as is... This change is a direct result from bad dps complaining good tanks do higher dps than themselves. Aeralik even states this himself allthough its covered in more diplomatic wordings.. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Eugam]

<p><cite>Vulkan_NTooki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Soooo.. the answer to why they make such a drastic change to def/off stances is the upcoming x2 instances in gu52? That sounds like something Aeralik would post.. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Again tho.. one should make the stances attractive for being used in certain situations.. I.e. defensive if u need high defense, extra aggro, offense if u need ekstra dps for those easy zones.. Instead they make them obligatory for certain roles. Defensive if u wanna tank, offensive if u wanna dps.</p><p>My statement stands as is... This change is a direct result from bad dps complaining good tanks do higher dps than themselves. Aeralik even states this himself allthough its covered in more diplomatic wordings.. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I am not exactly sure about Aeralik's intentions.</p><p>The worst nightmare i am able to imagine is a 5 button console type of MMO <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I dont like the merge of self-buffs into the stances. I do like the idea to force tanks into def stance and hold aggro with taunts/taunt procs and items.</p><p>My main is healer and playing since day 1. Back then i had the right to tell a tank to go into def stance and use a freaking door. That worked through Shattered Lands, DoF and KoS. Us healers where those who decided about the tanks stance <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Its true <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And i am convinced that the game was good that way. It was one of the dps classes duty to *control* their dps. Winning a parse was not the goal. My warlock was able to do so whenever he wanted. There have been linked encounters with 6 ^^^ heroics and a big kaboom of the warlock always grabbed their attention. It was part of the locks skill to avoid this, even when he was able to do more damage. So the roles have been clear and group gameplay was much better.</p><p>With EoF the hate transfers came into game and all changed. I knew many tanks who left or gave up on tanking. Back then it was their pride to be able to actually tank a mob. This included to be able to hold aggro on their own. Those people where embarassed about loosing their main role, because other classes builded their hate. Those oldschool tanks felt like tools.</p><p>In KoS a raid required 10-15k dps, today i hear about 100k (is that really true ? I dont raid anymore) but the tanks taunts did not increase in the same way. However, even in KoS the raid buffed MT was always on the parse. Thats what happens when you are the most buffed person in raid/group. Caring about such is childish and i doubt Aeralik cares about such. He wants a fun and successful game.. whatever that is.</p>

[Vulkan_NTooki]

<p><cite>Eugam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Vulkan_NTooki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Soooo.. the answer to why they make such a drastic change to def/off stances is the upcoming x2 instances in gu52? That sounds like something Aeralik would post.. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Again tho.. one should make the stances attractive for being used in certain situations.. I.e. defensive if u need high defense, extra aggro, offense if u need ekstra dps for those easy zones.. Instead they make them obligatory for certain roles. Defensive if u wanna tank, offensive if u wanna dps.</p><p>My statement stands as is... This change is a direct result from bad dps complaining good tanks do higher dps than themselves. Aeralik even states this himself allthough its covered in more diplomatic wordings.. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I am not exactly sure about Aeralik's intentions.</p><p>The worst nightmare i am able to imagine is a 5 button console type of MMO <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I dont like the merge of self-buffs into the stances. I do like the idea to force tanks into def stance and hold aggro with taunts/taunt procs and items.</p><p>My main is healer and playing since day 1. Back then i had the right to tell a tank to go into def stance and use a freaking door. That worked through Shattered Lands, DoF and KoS. Us healers where those who decided about the tanks stance <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> Its true <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> And i am convinced that the game was good that way. It was one of the dps classes duty to *control* their dps. Winning a parse was not the goal. My warlock was able to do so whenever he wanted. There have been linked encounters with 6 ^^^ heroics and a big kaboom of the warlock always grabbed their attention. It was part of the locks skill to avoid this, even when he was able to do more damage. So the roles have been clear and group gameplay was much better.</p><p>With EoF the hate transfers came into game and all changed. I knew many tanks who left or gave up on tanking. Back then it was their pride to be able to actually tank a mob. This included to be able to hold aggro on their own. Those people where embarassed about loosing their main role, because other classes builded their hate. Those oldschool tanks felt like tools.</p><p>In KoS a raid required 10-15k dps, today i hear about 100k (is that really true ? I dont raid anymore) but the tanks taunts did not increase in the same way. However, even in KoS the raid buffed MT was always on the parse. Thats what happens when you are the most buffed person in raid/group. Caring about such is childish and i doubt Aeralik cares about such. He wants a fun and successful game.. whatever that is.</p></blockquote><p>I agree.. taunts should be what keeps the mob on you. The way to solve this is increasing the threat caused by taunts. NOT by decreasing the dps a tank can do. The dps a tank can do is based on gear and skill. Not game mechanics.</p><p>On live: If I go full defensive, stance, gear, potions etc Im happy if I parse 1.5k. In some zones and some mobs I do put on that stance, simply because its needed to keep the group safe. In this stance I need extra taunts/aggro.</p><p>In other zones, vs trash, easy nameds, etc going full defensive is pointless. The healer can halfway sleep through the instances if I go full defensive. Its a bore.. Mobs are killed alot slower.</p><p>So they ask me to go offensive.. In full offensive I parse 3-5k zw in easy to moderate tso instances. I dont find that uber at all. Scouts and mages should do 6-9k easily. 10-14k if they are raid geared with mythical. In this stance I still need some taunting abilities if my DPS members know what they are doing.</p><p>I have my mythical. But in my dps set Im mostly instance / quest geared. I get the miti/avoidance of a scout in dps mode, but hey, if healers prefer me that way, then what harm does it do that I help the group kill quicker?</p><p>A tank should be responsible for getting his own hate. He should take pride in it. But that doesnt mean he shouldnt also strive to increase his dps to his max(it is after all damage that kills mobs, not taunts).</p>