[CLASS RESPEC] After GU51 - New betrayal quest possible?

[mr23sgte]

<p>I have played this game since launch and I'm really unhappy with the current state of the Monk Class on Test. Could we get a quest to change Fighter Classes? No not to Bruiser....across any fighter Warrior, Crusader ?????</p><p>This type of class change was posted in another thread and it's possible in other games............</p><p>Monks are essentially the worst single and group encounter tanks, We have 1 raidwide buff and no other group buff like warriors/Crusaders. I didn't see single target tank when I was making my character over 4 years ago.</p><p>Constant Feedback is totally ignored along with the Class Forum.</p>

[eqaddictedfool]

<p><span style="color: #888888;">Thats probally not going to happen. If there was a betrayel quest for every person that thought another class was better everyone would be able to betray to anything. If your not happy with your char remake.</span></p>

[Eugam]

<p>Did you even look at the test monk ?</p><p>Did you see that many CA's now additionally generate aggro ? Tank-wise the monk is better then ever with those changes. Unless there is a maniac dps class in group i cant imagine the tanking monk loosing hate on a single target.</p>

[Besual]

<p>Just start a new toon. It's easy to hit level 80 with a good chunk of AAs.</p><p>May be one day SOE will revamp the brawlers like they did with the enchanters / SK and then you don't have to ask for a betrayal-back option.</p>

[ShinGoku]

<p><cite>Hereo@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have played this game since launch and I'm really unhappy with the current state of the Monk Class on Test. Could we get a quest to change Fighter Classes? No not to Bruiser....across any fighter Warrior, Crusader ?????</p><p>This type of class change was posted in another thread and it's possible in other games............</p><p>Monks are essentially the worst single and group encounter tanks, We have 1 raidwide buff and no other group buff like warriors/Crusaders. I didn't see single target tank when I was making my character over 4 years ago.</p><p>Constant Feedback is totally ignored along with the Class Forum.</p></blockquote><p>I'm with Hereo on this one. </p><p>We were both in the TSO beta and were both equally vocal about the grand monk screw job with the TSO AAs and multi mob issues. </p><p>I'm sick of being ignored as a class and would like to betray my toon to an SK.  I've been playing my monk for more than 4 years now and I can't bear to log him on anymore. </p><p>I got him to 80 months and months ago and just don't see the point in playing him anymore.  Most of the ROK / TSO gear for brawlers is total rubbish so I don't see the point in aquiring it.  The T1 shard gear is worse than the legendary gear I quested and brought and most insulting of all, I don't see the point in earning further AAs as theres nothing I really see the point in spending AA on. </p><p>/sign for the ability to respec my class as a 1 off please.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Yes Monks and Brawlers definatly need ar harder look at out buffs for one and the gear we are able to get.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Possibly just add a Monkish questline like the Whistling Fist Monks are talent scouting or something! instead of a Cape give us a backpack that has a visual. Perhaps The Nameless has decided to take a peek at Norrath and decideds to use the Monks as a test.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Is a Monk True-Believer so not likely to give up min just going through a EQ2 burnout phase while my sketchins skills seem to be going mad <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </span></p>

[ShinGoku]

<p><cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Yes Monks and Brawlers definatly need ar harder look at out buffs for one and the gear we are able to get.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Possibly just add a Monkish questline like the Whistling Fist Monks are talent scouting or something! instead of a Cape give us a backpack that has a visual. Perhaps The Nameless has decided to take a peek at Norrath and decideds to use the Monks as a test.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Is a Monk True-Believer so not likely to give up min just going through a EQ2 burnout phase while my sketchins skills seem to be going mad <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> </span></p></blockquote><p>I'd be more inclined to not give up if I was ever given a slight insight into the grand plan for brawlers.  As is we are the "meh" tank of choice.  Its universally agreed our AAs suck when compared to other classes and dispite years of people posting requests and suggestions they continue to be ignored.</p><p>I think a class respec would be awesome within your class type, monk - any other fighter etc. </p><p>I'm fine with the fact I may end up standing butt naked after it and having to regear completely but hey, its better than not knowing if my class will ever be given some lovin.</p>

[mr23sgte]

<p>I mean SHEESHH...I'm about at a breaking point here. In the last year: Nerfed our raidwide, Dev Fist and Peel was over-nerfed in ROK -</p><p>We have 1 group buff ......We get less DA, Melee crit and AE AA vs every other fighter class (cept Bruisers who get equally shafted)</p><p>All was Ignored on  TSO AA beta feedback - the EOF <strong>end</strong> abilites AA's are useless - superior riposte works 1/2 the time, Combo does less damage than most of my CA's, the dehate is just LOL</p><p>We could atleast use some Utility if we are gonna be classified as this "Single Target Tank" .</p><p>Pretty much every other class has one of our abilities, so we bring nothing special to a raid cept our nerfed raidwide.</p>

[Junaru]

<p>I can't even begin to talk about the amount of feedback for TSO I gave. I was on the forums every day posting and not a thing was changed. They thought since they finally fixed the STR that it was enough and we would have to deal with everything else.</p><p>Sad thing is rolled an ALT because SOE was messing the Monk class up so much. It's a bummer that I rolled a Swashbucker cause SOE is pulling the same crap on that class. Maybe it's me? Maybe if I left EQ2 SOE will fix both classes.</p><p>The worst part is we don't even get a REPLY from SOE.Why is Brawler AoE Autoattack less then other fighters?Why is Bralwer MC less then other fighters?Why is Brawler DA less then other fighters?Why do Brawlers not have a passive hate?Why do Brawlers have less a lot mitigation then plate tanks yet nearly the same avoidance?And finally, why haven't we gotten two seconds of your time with a reply?</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>ShinGoku wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>/sign for the ability to respec my class as a 1 off please.</p></blockquote><p>/sign, as I'm itching to be able to keep my Gnome at level 60 with level 35 Scribe, but I'd much rather be an Illy or Coercer, than a Conjy.</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p>I am not addicted to this game enough to warrant re-rolling and leveling up again...but after the changes go live...if what I think is true..which is that Zerker will be one of the best group/instance tanks and Guard the worst then I might consider for the first ever betraying my Guard <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </p><p>I raid 1 or 2 times per week.  I need my class to be viable for all of the game's content..not just a few hours each week.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p>I would never betray or change to any other class even if it was free instant and gave me all the same quality spells I have already.</p>

[Mentalep]

<p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am not addicted to this game enough to warrant re-rolling and leveling up again...but after the changes go live...if what I think is true..which is that Zerker will be one of the best group/instance tanks and Guard the worst then I might consider for the first ever betraying my Guard <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />  </p><p>I raid 1 or 2 times per week.  I need my class to be viable for all of the game's content..not just a few hours each week. </p></blockquote><p>OK, what is going to be so bad about the guardian?</p>

[ShinGoku]

<p>Well as I said, I don't care if I end up standing round neckid with only app1s to my name, it would be worth it to not be the most ignored class in EQ2 anymore.</p>

[Melli]

<p>Don't betray, just re-roll and hope for the eventual improvement to the class.  I shelved my warden when RoK came out and she's gathering dust, but maybe one day they'll fix her.  If they do, I'll be glad to have her there waiting.  If they don't, well, I have my new class.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Melli wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Don't betray, just re-roll and hope for the eventual improvement to the class.  I shelved my warden when RoK came out and she's gathering dust, but maybe one day they'll fix her.  If they do, I'll be glad to have her there waiting.  If they don't, well, I have my new class.</p></blockquote><p>Huh? Wardens are awesome and by far my favorite healer.</p>

[Gisallo]

<p><cite>Junaru wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I can't even begin to talk about the amount of feedback for TSO I gave. I was on the forums every day posting and not a thing was changed. They thought since they finally fixed the STR that it was enough and we would have to deal with everything else.</p><p>Sad thing is rolled an ALT because SOE was messing the Monk class up so much. It's a bummer that I rolled a Swashbucker cause SOE is pulling the same crap on that class. Maybe it's me? Maybe if I left EQ2 SOE will fix both classes.</p><p>The worst part is we don't even get a REPLY from SOE.Why is Brawler AoE Autoattack less then other fighters?Why is Bralwer MC less then other fighters?Why is Brawler DA less then other fighters?Why do Brawlers not have a passive hate?Why do Brawlers have less a lot mitigation then plate tanks yet nearly the same avoidance?And finally, why haven't we gotten two seconds of your time with a reply?</p></blockquote><p>Well a lot of your issues here were NOT an issue before.  The balance was not based on AoE vs Single target so 1 was not needed.  As for 2 and 3 can't comment.  4 well since the old balance was Offensive vs Defensive and an equally geared and played brawler out dps's a plate tank (least all the ones I raid with) that was the reason.  DPS equalled aggro and under the old paradign offensive vs defensive this was seen as part of the overall scheme.  Nearly the same avoidance NOT!!!.  Is the % equal no.  its not 10% less mit and 10% more avoidance, but the rationale behind this is that avoidance means take NO damage and mit means take less damage.  Avoidance is thus more powerful and thus to achieve balance an avoidance and mitigation can not be equated to 1v1.  Whether they ever properly balanced this is another question but it appears you are asking for 1v1 equivilent here and this isn't appropriate.</p><p>As for "pulling the same crap with that class" for the swashie.  Swashies are arguably as over powered as Assassins in their own way.  Almost Ranger dps with twice the buffs so please don't go there.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Gisallo@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Junaru wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I can't even begin to talk about the amount of feedback for TSO I gave. I was on the forums every day posting and not a thing was changed. They thought since they finally fixed the STR that it was enough and we would have to deal with everything else.</p><p>Sad thing is rolled an ALT because SOE was messing the Monk class up so much. It's a bummer that I rolled a Swashbucker cause SOE is pulling the same crap on that class. Maybe it's me? Maybe if I left EQ2 SOE will fix both classes.</p><p>The worst part is we don't even get a REPLY from SOE.Why is Brawler AoE Autoattack less then other fighters?Why is Bralwer MC less then other fighters?Why is Brawler DA less then other fighters?Why do Brawlers not have a passive hate?Why do Brawlers have less a lot mitigation then plate tanks yet nearly the same avoidance?And finally, why haven't we gotten two seconds of your time with a reply?</p></blockquote><p>Well a lot of your issues here were NOT an issue before.  The balance was not based on AoE vs Single target so 1 was not needed.  As for 2 and 3 can't comment.  4 well since the old balance was Offensive vs Defensive and an equally geared and played brawler out dps's a plate tank (least all the ones I raid with) that was the reason.  DPS equalled aggro and under the old paradign offensive vs defensive this was seen as part of the overall scheme.  Nearly the same avoidance NOT!!!.  Is the % equal no.  its not 10% less mit and 10% more avoidance, but the rationale behind this is that avoidance means take NO damage and mit means take less damage.  Avoidance is thus more powerful and thus to achieve balance an avoidance and mitigation can not be equated to 1v1.  Whether they ever properly balanced this is another question but it appears you are asking for 1v1 equivilent here and this isn't appropriate.</p><p>As for "pulling the same crap with that class" for the swashie.  Swashies are arguably as over powered as Assassins in their own way.  Almost Ranger dps with twice the buffs so please don't go there.</p></blockquote><p>Except for the fact that plate tanks avoidance is largly uncontested whereas only a very small portion of brawler's avoidance is uncontested.</p>

[Gwarsh]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gisallo@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>.......</blockquote><p>Except for the fact that plate tanks avoidance is largly uncontested whereas only a very small portion of brawler's avoidance is uncontested.</p></blockquote><p>forgive me for sounding confused, but i thought ALL avoidance was contested now? and has been since TSO came out?</p>

[Ranja]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would never betray or change to any other class even if it was free instant and gave me all the same quality spells I have already.</p></blockquote><p>That is fine. Keep your tons of agi <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Theren]

<p><cite>Gwarsh@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gisallo@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>.......</blockquote><p>Except for the fact that plate tanks avoidance is largly uncontested whereas only a very small portion of brawler's avoidance is uncontested.</p></blockquote><p>forgive me for sounding confused, but i thought ALL avoidance was contested now? and has been since TSO came out?</p></blockquote><p>If I remember right shield block is still uncontested. It was items that gave Block % that got contested down to really only adding shield effectiveness.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Gwarsh@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gisallo@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>.......</blockquote><p>Except for the fact that plate tanks avoidance is largly uncontested whereas only a very small portion of brawler's avoidance is uncontested.</p></blockquote><p>forgive me for sounding confused, but i thought ALL avoidance was contested now? and has been since TSO came out?</p></blockquote><p>No but I wish it was.</p><p><cite>Ranja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I would never betray or change to any other class even if it was free instant and gave me all the same quality spells I have already.</p></blockquote><p>That is fine. Keep your tons of agi <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Random?</p>

[Splor]

<p><cite>Gisallo@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Junaru wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I can't even begin to talk about the amount of feedback for TSO I gave. I was on the forums every day posting and not a thing was changed. They thought since they finally fixed the STR that it was enough and we would have to deal with everything else.</p><p>Sad thing is rolled an ALT because SOE was messing the Monk class up so much. It's a bummer that I rolled a Swashbucker cause SOE is pulling the same crap on that class. Maybe it's me? Maybe if I left EQ2 SOE will fix both classes.</p><p>The worst part is we don't even get a REPLY from SOE.Why is Brawler AoE Autoattack less then other fighters?Why is Bralwer MC less then other fighters?Why is Brawler DA less then other fighters?Why do Brawlers not have a passive hate?Why do Brawlers have less a lot mitigation then plate tanks yet nearly the same avoidance?And finally, why haven't we gotten two seconds of your time with a reply?</p></blockquote><p>Well a lot of your issues here were NOT an issue before.  The balance was not based on AoE vs Single target so 1 was not needed.  As for 2 and 3 can't comment.  4 well since the old balance was Offensive vs Defensive and an equally geared and played brawler out dps's a plate tank (least all the ones I raid with) that was the reason.  DPS equalled aggro and under the old paradign offensive vs defensive this was seen as part of the overall scheme.  Nearly the same avoidance NOT!!!.  Is the % equal no.  its not 10% less mit and 10% more avoidance, but the rationale behind this is that avoidance means take NO damage and mit means take less damage.  Avoidance is thus more powerful and thus to achieve balance an avoidance and mitigation can not be equated to 1v1.  Whether they ever properly balanced this is another question but it appears you are asking for 1v1 equivilent here and this isn't appropriate.</p><p>As for "pulling the same crap with that class" for the swashie.  Swashies are arguably as over powered as Assassins in their own way.  Almost Ranger dps with twice the buffs so please don't go there.</p></blockquote><p>errrr what? Avoidance is better than mitigation? HAHAHA, no.</p><p>If the mob swings 10 times, and would hit you for 1,000 a hit, if you have 50% mitigation, you take 5,000 damage.</p><p>If the mob swings 10 times, and would hit you for 1,000 a hit but your dodge is 50% you "should" take 5,000 damage. The problem is that avoidance is a chance, mitigation is a constant. You WILL vs You SHOULD.You could potentially dodge all the hits, or none of the hits.</p><p>With the addition of mobs also getting strike through, Avoidance in those cases is < than mitigation as well. You might have a 90% chance to dodge a mob, but if it procs strikethrough for that attack your 90% avoidance doesnt mean a thing. A lot of classes survivability is also run on certain abilities that run on the concept of avoiding shots. These abilities are called tsunamis(named after the original monk ability). besides the SK's having one, bruisers have 2(with mythical and AA) and monks still have the original. These abilities give 100% avoidance for a short duration, but with mobs being able to hit through, they no longer hold as much sway as say just having pure stone skins, or mitigation buffs that WILL always mitigate the damage.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p>Strike through was a terrible idea.</p>