Paladin and AOEs

[Demurg]

<p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;">Paladin its a solo-target tank. Why to us in so much AOEs? Why to us strengthening of AOEs in EOF AAs? Guard have only one AOE ability and that redone in powerful solo shot in EoF AAs! So, guard have no AOEs.Paladin have five AOE shots and two more undertake in AAs.You going to rework even 50% AOE of paladin in solo-shots - more powerful than AOEs or for example shots with debuffs or some passive buffs for tanking?A paladin isnt necessary so much AOEs and in EoF tree we no longer need strengthening of AOEs, paladin in 51 GUsolo-target tank!All these AOEs require your revision. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;">Aeralik, please, answer in this topic, there are some plans on a change us in solo-target tanks, to add survivability, change nobody not necessary AOEs?</span></p>

[denmom]

<p><cite>Demurg wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;">Paladin its a solo-target tank. Why to us in so much AOEs? Why to us strengthening of AOEs in EOF AAs? Guard have only one AOE ability and that redone in powerful solo shot in EoF AAs! So, guard have no AOEs.Paladin have five AOE shots and two more undertake in AAs.You going to rework even 50% AOE of paladin in solo-shots - more powerful than AOEs or for example shots with debuffs or some passive buffs for tanking?A paladin isnt necessary so much AOEs and in EoF tree we no longer need strengthening of AOEs, paladin in 51 GUsolo-target tank!All these AOEs require your revision. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;">Aeralik, please, answer in this topic, there are some plans on a change us in solo-target tanks, to add survivability, change nobody not necessary AOEs?</span></p></blockquote><p>Oh geeze, changing/getting rid of the aoes would be bad.</p><p>I use aoes on single targets, that's where I get my damage from.  I've gone down the Wraths line for extra damage.</p><p>And besides, when a Paladin OT's, using the aoes for damage would be a good thing, so really no reason to change them out.</p>

[Demurg]

<p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And besides, when a Paladin OT's, using the aoes for damage would be a good thing, so really no reason to change them out.</p></blockquote><div><span style="font-size: x-small; color: #ffffff; font-family: Arial;">In this GU, from a paladin the same wretched AOE tank as well as from a guard.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: x-small; color: #ffffff; font-family: Arial;">Paladin is MT and to make out of him OT - RL is idiot.</span></div><div><div><span style="font-size: x-small; color: #ffffff; font-family: Arial;">AOEs its pranks for heroic instance, but as MT is a zero benefit exactly.</span></div></div>

[Brat]

<p>Man, this GU finally will kill us, as OT. If they decided to make MT out of us, they must do it good and we no longer need AOEs, b/c solo shots with debuffs will be much better.</p>

[denmom]

<p>For some reason, can't get the quote to work...</p><p>I'm sorry, but I disagree.  The aoes have function.</p><p>Verdict: divine damage + interrupt</p><p>Circle of Conviction: divine damage + brief stun</p><p>Castigation: divine AE + removal of one instance each of noxious, arcane, elemental and trauma effects on target and does AE divine damage for each removed.</p><p>Circular Smite: 360 AE divine damage attack + group heal.</p><p>Consecration: AE divine damage DOT with recurrent power cost. Can be toggled off.</p><p>Doom Rays: AE melee damage attack that dispels beneficial noxious/arcane buffs when successful.</p><p>Smite Evil: AE divine damage that cannot be outright resisted</p><p>Seems to me these would have use in raiding, yes?  I know they have a lot of good use when I duo/trio and group.</p>

[Demurg]

<p>You are not right. I dont know that you raidin, but I talk from the point of view of end-game raids. And after this GU, we or MT or out of raid. Our AOEs useless after this game update, they should rework it to solo-target shots, with debuffs of our current target. Taunts and hate gain will become more important than DPS, while you tankin and survivability more than DPS too. Shots with debuffs will weaken a damage inflicted by mob, so its slightly increase our survivability, while we tankin. Sony want us as MT, so be kind - do fully. We are solo-target tanks, but we have more AOEs, than aoe-tanks, I exaggerate certainly, but sense is such.</p>

[denmom]

<p><cite>Demurg wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You are not right. I dont know that you raidin, but I talk from the point of view of end-game raids. And after this GU, we or MT or out of raid. Our AOEs useless after this game update, they should rework it to solo-target shots, with debuffs of our current target. Taunts and hate gain will become more important than DPS, while you tankin and survivability more than DPS too. Shots with debuffs will weaken a damage inflicted by mob, so its slightly increase our survivability, while we tankin. Sony want us as MT, so be kind - do fully. We are solo-target tanks, but we have more AOEs, than aoe-tanks, I exaggerate certainly, but sense is such.</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand, to be honest, why having the aoes is a bad thing.</p><p>No, I don't raid, have no plans to, but I'm just confused on why you want all the aoes removed.</p><p>I have to say, again, it's a bad idea.</p>

[Caetrel]

<p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Demurg wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You are not right. I dont know that you raidin, but I talk from the point of view of end-game raids. And after this GU, we or MT or out of raid. Our AOEs useless after this game update, they should rework it to solo-target shots, with debuffs of our current target. Taunts and hate gain will become more important than DPS, while you tankin and survivability more than DPS too. Shots with debuffs will weaken a damage inflicted by mob, so its slightly increase our survivability, while we tankin. Sony want us as MT, so be kind - do fully. We are solo-target tanks, but we have more AOEs, than aoe-tanks, I exaggerate certainly, but sense is such.</p></blockquote><p>I don't understand, to be honest, why having the aoes is a bad thing.</p></blockquote><p>Cause big birds with little wings can't fly.</p>

[Spe]

<p><cite>Demurg wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;">Paladin its a solo-target tank. Why to us in so much AOEs? Why to us strengthening of AOEs in EOF AAs? Guard have only one AOE ability and that redone in powerful solo shot in EoF AAs! So, guard have no AOEs.Paladin have five AOE shots and two more undertake in AAs.You going to rework even 50% AOE of paladin in solo-shots - more powerful than AOEs or for example shots with debuffs or some passive buffs for tanking?A paladin isnt necessary so much AOEs and in EoF tree we no longer need strengthening of AOEs, paladin in 51 GUsolo-target tank!All these AOEs require your revision. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;">Aeralik, please, answer in this topic, there are some plans on a change us in solo-target tanks, to add survivability, change nobody not necessary AOEs?</span></p></blockquote><p>Guards have two AoEs and another one from KoS agi line. And one of them in not "redone" into single target in EoF AAs, but just add another CA on the same timer with AoE one.</p>

[Irgun]

<p>After paladins got shafted in aggro and still have less survivability than guardians the removal of several aes would kill the last straw a paladin could have an advantage over the guardian - his ae-utility.</p>

[Cabral]

<p>AoEs are the primary driving force behind levelling my Paladin. Please, do not take away my precious AoEs. I collect them. I have 7 and will eventually get Hammer Ground for eight. My favorite is Castigation. What's not to love about an AoE DoT.</p><p>Pallies have a nice burst of AoE DPS. I'm not certain how the other tanks perform in AoE DPS, but leave the Paladin alone.</p>

[Gwarsh]

<p>aoe's should stay.  its not all about the endgame. </p>

[Faelgalad]

<p>We need things that are different to Guard, AE capabilities are nice to have.</p><p>There are a plenthora of other things in more dire need of changing (Aggro + Survive).</p>

[OrcSlayer96]

<p>Aoes should stay, having them coupled with holy ground help us to pull mobs when lu 51 hits live, if you want a  debuff added i wouls submit the single target CA we have that used to be 2 handed only.  After they changed it to be a normal CA, it has been the weakest CA we have as it doesnt do anything but CA damage.  It has no stun, intereput, lifetap or double damage to undead, so if it was changed to a physical mit debuff or something it would only be a bonus to us.  I hate to say it, but pallies that ask to lose their aoes are not pallies, but pallies that want to emulate a guardian.  If i wanted to roll a guardian i would have back at the beginning of the game.  Leave our aoes where they are at, they are not harming anyone on tanking positions and can only help duos and soloers even more.</p>

[Kahling]

<p>There is no way they are going to remove our aoe's, sorry but removing them would mean we can not tank any of the TSO group content.  It wont happen so lets lock the thread and move on.  As it is its going to be interesting to say the least tanking aoe content as a Paladin after LU51.</p>

[Demurg]

<p><span style="font-size: x-small; color: #ffffff; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I wrote already, that normal RL will not do paladin in GU 51 as OT, because berserker and Sk will do it much better.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: x-small; color: #ffffff; font-family: Arial;">Our purpose it to balance paladin and guard. Now there is not balance between them. In GU 51 paladin or MT or in general unavailing class, well we is not needed in a raid...</span></span></p><div><div><span style="color: #ffffff;"><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;">So or you going brains and will write something considered or walk in trash heroic instance farther, </span><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;">but when you will want raiding you will remember this topic and my words. </span></span></div><div></div><div><span style="color: #ffffff;"></span></div><div><span style="color: #ffffff;"><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: Arial;">Good luck.</span></span></div></div>

[Kordran]

<p>Stripping the Paladin of their AE spells is pretty much a non-starter, and frankly, was kind of ridiculous to even suggest.</p><p>Having tanked RoK and TSO raids as a Paladin, I think the differences you're focusing on are not as great as you're implying. As long as the Paladin is properly geared and knows how to play their class, they're more than capable of MTing raid instances now, and after GU51. There are things that I would certainly like to see, such as Stonewall being improved and some debuffs attached to our attacks, but it's not like there's this vast, unbridgeable chasm between the Guardian and Paladin as defensive tanks. People can and do run with Paladins as MTs in their raids. Certainly not as many as Guardians, but clearly it's not impossible to do.</p>