Heirloom Flag

[Kordran]

<p>It looks like shards and tokens now have an heirloom tag which, presumably, allows them to be shared amongst alternate characters on the same account (they can be put in the shared bank), but cannot be traded with other players. What do people think about this?</p><p>I understand that probably a lot of players will probably like this, as they'll be able to "farm" for shards on their main, and feed them to alts to gear them up. But something about that just seems wrong to me. I see them as rewards that are to be earned by the player for that character, and if you have an alt, then run that alt through the instances. I guess the other thing that concerns me is you'll have people running around in full sets of T2 void gear who have little or no experience in the zones; it kind of ties back to issues like people buying mythical updates who don't have a terribly good grasp of how to play their character. The only objective information other players have about you is your gear, and the ability to essentially farm no-trade drops for alts further muddies those waters.</p><p>In other words, if I see a player in a full set of T2 void gear, today it's a pretty safe assumption that they have some experience running a variety of the TSO zones. That won't be true 100% of the time (e.g.: people using mentoring to farm shards, etc.) but as a rough generalization, it should hold true for most players. With this change, you can have people running around wearing the best legendary gear in the game and they've not spent a single second inside any TSO instance on that character. In fact, it'll be possible for someone to completely gear up an alt and have never, ever grouped on that toon. That just seems wrong to me, but I'm sure a lot of people will disagree.</p>

[Junaru]

<p>Crappy players will be crappy players regardless of the gear they are in. And I fail to see how someone who has farmed enough shards to gear himself and an ALT would not be well versed in a zone.</p><p>I personally like the idea. As someone who has nearly all the pieces I want I like that I can use the shards for alts.</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I guess the other thing that concerns me is you'll have people running around in full sets of T2 void gear who have little or no experience in the zones;</p></blockquote><p>Huh?</p><p>To get those shards they would have had to run instances in the first place with their main.</p><p>Don't really see a problem with this.</p><p>As it stands I already know people that have piles of shards and nothing to do with them...except craft shard gear for others...which in and of itself is worse than being able to hand shards to alts.</p>

[Seidhkona]

<p>I like the idea because I do have more than one level 80 toon, and since groups almost always need me to either play tank or healer, my ranger gets left in the dust many times for group zones and instances.</p><p>Since we do in fact have bozos who have purchased fully-geared toons via eBay or paid some shady company to power-level them, we do get people with the gear who absolutely have no idea how to play their toon already. I can't see that "hand-me-down" shards will make it any worse /shrug.</p>

[Mentalep]

<p>Well, it's not really different than giving your alt a tradeable legendary or fabled that you picked up on your main.  I think no-trade mechanics are overused post-70; I think solo quest rewards would be good candidates for this new tag, at least.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To get those shards they would have had to run instances in the first place with their main.</p></blockquote><p>Just as an example, because you have a Troubador main who's followed groups through instances, that experience does not translate into a Guardian who's expected to tank and lead those groups. So, in this hypothetical example, you could have a Guardian fully geared up by virtue of an alt who has absolutely no idea how to actually tank those instances, but he "looks good" on paper (read: to anyone who inspects him).</p><p>Yes, there's no shortage of eBayed toons and whatnot, but it seems like this is a step towards making the problem worse. I don't know, like I said, I understand that I'm likely in the minority here and I may be overblowing things. But it just seems wrong to me that you can earn no-trade gear for one toon by playing another. And that's effectively what this change does. The argument could be made that if they're doing this, why have the no-trade flag at all and just switch everything to the "heirloom" tag so that you could complete quests, collections, etc. and hand the rewards off to alts? The change seems to undermine the whole reason that certain items are no-trade to begin with.</p>

[Tinrae]

<p>I like the idea quite a bit actually. Like Sigrdrifa said, many times I don't get a chance to play certain alts as much as I'd like with my guild, because some alts are more needed than others. And you as a player still have to earn those shards anyways.</p><p>Seems to me that EQ2 has a very reputation-oriented community, and once someone gets a bad name for being a poor player, gear won't make a bit of difference to change that.</p>

[Junaru]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To get those shards they would have had to run instances in the first place with their main.</p></blockquote><p>Just as an example, because you have a Troubador main who's followed groups through instances, that experience does not translate into a Guardian who's expected to tank and lead those groups. So, in this hypothetical example, you could have a Guardian fully geared up by virtue of an alt who has absolutely no idea how to actually tank those instances, but he "looks good" on paper (read: to anyone who inspects him).</p><p>Yes, there's no shortage of eBayed toons and whatnot, but it seems like this is a step towards making the problem worse. I don't know, like I said, I understand that I'm likely in the minority here and I may be overblowing things. But it just seems wrong to me that you can earn no-trade gear for one toon by playing another. And that's effectively what this change does. The argument could be made that if they're doing this, why have the no-trade flag at all and just switch everything to the "heirloom" tag so that you could complete quests, collections, etc. and hand the rewards off to alts? The change seems to undermine the whole reason that certain items are no-trade to begin with.</p></blockquote><p>Well if you PLed a tank to 80 and never played him and got fully shard geared then yeah you will suck. But guess what? If you PLed a tank to 80 and only have quested gear you are still going to suck. Having access to shard gear doesn't change the circumstances.</p><p>Well played ALTs will be well played regardless of gear and same applies for the other side.</p>

[Anordil]

<p>Eh, I think you're overreacting to this. I, for one, applaud the change. I've backburnered levelling some alts because my main is most often needed. Once I've upgraded his armor with the shards, what's the point of continuing to collect them if they just sit and gather dust? Now, if I can pass them on to an alt, that's fantastic - especially since my dirge will need more of them than my templar does.</p><p>As for someone "looking good on paper", I really won't fret about this. I've never, ever grouped with someone solely based on their gear, in fact, the quality of someone's gear isn't something I dwell on. If they're good people and are struggling a bit because they've suboptimal gear, why not work with them to help them get the gear they need? Frankly, appearances are deceiving. Just because someone is decked out in fabled gear doesn't mean they're a delight to group with.</p>

[Melli]

<p>I like it too!  I don't need many shards for my main but I need to grind out instances for AA, quests and guildmates.  I would be able to share them with my alts, who don't get as much play time as I'd like with a 6-7 day/week raid schedule!</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Anordil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Eh, I think you're overreacting to this. I, for one, applaud the change. I've backburnered levelling some alts because my main is most often needed. Once I've upgraded his armor with the shards, what's the point of continuing to collect them if they just sit and gather dust? Now, if I can pass them on to an alt, that's fantastic - especially since my dirge will need more of them than my templar does.</p><p>As for someone "looking good on paper", I really won't fret about this. I've never, ever grouped with someone solely based on their gear, in fact, the quality of someone's gear isn't something I dwell on. If they're good people and are struggling a bit because they've suboptimal gear, why not work with them to help them get the gear they need? Frankly, appearances are deceiving. Just because someone is decked out in fabled gear doesn't mean they're a delight to group with.</p></blockquote><p>QFE.</p><p>While personally I do not have any alts...I have many friends that do....but due to the extreme nature of class requirements for TSO instances...they often are "forced" to play their main because its needed. </p><p>The OP is overracting....bad players will be bad players regardless of where or how they get their gear.</p>

[Antryg Mistrose]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It looks like shards and tokens now have an heirloom tag which, presumably, allows them to be shared amongst alternate characters on the same account (they can be put in the shared bank), but cannot be traded with other players. What do people think about this?</p></blockquote><p>Excellent idea, I thoroughly approve, and yes I have confirmed it works by passing to an alt who then made some armour.  As a side effect void shards have changed appearance and actually look like "shards" now (they are no longer circular).</p><p>As to the OP worried that the char wearing the armour didn't earn them - tough.  Selling shards (yes I've heard some adventurer/crafters are doing this - as its fuel), mythicals, loot rights and ebay is "not earned", passing shards from one alt to another /shrug </p><p>Some chars need more shards than others - my raiding templar and my legendary geared illusionist have stuff all in the way of upgrades on the legendary merchants.  My paladin though ....  (and before you whine, its normally my paladin I am running instances on as there is the usual shortage of tanks on non-raid nights).</p>

[Prrasha]

<p>1) I approve, and hope the flag gets used even more.  If nothing else, if a lot of dungeon no-trade gear becomes dungeon heirloom gear, there'll be less people selling loot rights to stuff (one of those effects that gives you well-geared characters with no clue how to play, that's in the game right now.)  It would also make instance-running mentored more useful; there's a possibility of getting gear for your lower-level alts.  Downside:  [private investigator]heads in pickup groups will start bidding "need" on gear for their alts...</p><p>Considering the tank/heal/heal/util/dps/dps grouping that's pretty much required for success in some of these instances, letting the people stuck playing tanks and healers all the time gear up their occasional DPS alts is good for the health of the game.  I mean, how many times do you see "Guardian01 tells [level_70-79] "Tank and 2 Heals need 3 DPS for Crucible! PST!"</p><p>2) As a previous poster mentioned, you don't need shards today to get shard gear, just a crafter willing to sell them to you (commission craft, give them only coin, and you can still get shard gear if the crafter uses their own shards.)  So the biggest mark against the Heirloom shards idea is already a moot point...</p>

[ke'la]

<p>I have been asking for a tag like this sence I switched off my first main... and I really hope they extend this to other No-Trade items that you earned... especally items that there is no way to get any more... like the Errosi Symbol from the first Errosi Marr live quest, or the Griffon towers, from that live quest, if either of those got this tag I would accually be able to delete a toon I only have only really logged in for the Frostfell Giftgiver suffle sence they changed the way Writs worked the first time(like LU5 or 6).</p>

[Zehl_Ice-Fire]

<p>This is great! Why should one player have to do 20000000000 things for all their alts? I enjoy quests, but I do not enjoy repeating quests 3-4 times for my high level characters. What does it matter which one on my account I'm gearing up, they are all mine that I work on? Say after farming yourself a few hundred shards after months of TSO, your guild desperately needs you to change to another class, and you agree. Back to living in instances for 5 months, so much for that real life you were planning on now that you had enough shards.</p><p>As for crafting tokens, you still can't spend them until you get faction so if you make another crafter you have to do the quests to gain faction but at least once you get faction you can use your other char's tokens instead of running the TS mission everyday for another month.</p><p>Of course it doesn't help me TOO Much since my 3x 80 adventureers happen to all be on separate accounts and my crafters: 3 share one account, 2 share one account and 1 is alone. But.. it's a start. I realize allowing this cross account even if you are the owner would make for for huge appeal to gear up and sell characters out of game for cash easier, but again that is another case of hurting the real players to stop much smaller number of people who break the rules.</p><p>I have wished for years now, ever since I got a 2nd account that they would somehow link all accounts you own so they could be paid in one fee (perhaps even a $1-2 discount for paying for several subs to soe!) and you could share whatever else they decide to let you share among characters.</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Sigrdrifa@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I like the idea because I do have more than one level 80 toon, and since groups almost always need me to either play tank or healer, my ranger gets left in the dust many times for group zones and instances.</p><p>Since we do in fact have bozos who have purchased fully-geared toons via eBay or paid some shady company to power-level them, we do get people with the gear who absolutely have no idea how to play their toon already. I can't see that "hand-me-down" shards will make it any worse /shrug.</p></blockquote><p>Since it's the -player- who has theoretically obtained them (main, alt, whatever), it's infinately better than a bozo who has (on a non Exchange server) purchased a character, plat, loot 'rights', gear, etc. With Heirloom, the -player- will have gone through the content even if that specific character hasn't.</p><p>Yes, different classes play differently, but the learning curve for a player of one class switching to another vs a brand new player starting at level 70+ or even just playing through a first character from start is vastly different.</p>

[Taylinn]

<p>I persoanlly think that this is a great idea. For shards sure that would be great once I start really getting to the grind. For me the possiblity for the Far Seas tokens to be tradeable would be terrific. I have over 6 crafters, 4 that are 80 and I always have to choose which one to play according to who I grp with it. It would be great to be able to play which ever toon is needed and then be able to pass off the tokens to the toon that needs them. I really enjoy the TS instances but they are becoming a bit mind numbing for the amount of toons I have, which I am sure there a lot out there that would agree with me.</p><p>Besides as long as I am doing the work on one toon or another, why shouldn't my alts be able to benefit from it.</p>

[Eveningsong]

<p><cite>Zehl_Ice-Fire wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have wished for years now, ever since I got a 2nd account that they would somehow link all accounts you own so they could be paid in one fee (perhaps even a $1-2 discount for paying for several subs to soe!) and you could share whatever else they decide to let you share among characters.</p></blockquote><p>As someone who recently started a second account, I'd love to see something like this.  It was a little sad to realize that my new alts do not have access to the same veteran rewards I've gotten used to on my main account, and with the heirloom flag it would have been nice to be able to handdown gear to them as well.  But I am highly in favour of the heirloom flag, as has been expressed already, the only things that could be handed down are items that have already been earned by the player.  And gear is never an indication of ability to play a particular class.</p>

[EvilAstroboy]

<p>This is a great change. I have a few level 80s, most have been my mains at various stages (based on what my guild needed at the time) and I play them all very well.</p><p>That said my guild is lacking tanks to run everyone through the dungeons, so while my other level 80s are sitting around currently unused, my tank is building up a big pile of shards (already decked out in T2 armor and has a bear).</p><p>Sure I could stop using my tank and start playing my other characters, but this isnt really in anyones best interest. Id rather be able to use whichever character is needed at the time to help everyone out and give the shards to whoever needs it out of my alts.</p>

[feldon30]

Awesome change. Add HEIRLOOM tag to more items!

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Zehl_Ice-Fire wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is great! Why should one player have to do 20000000000 things for all their alts? I enjoy quests, but I do not enjoy repeating quests 3-4 times for my high level characters. What does it matter which one on my account I'm gearing up, they are all mine that I work on? Say after farming yourself a few hundred shards after months of TSO, your guild desperately needs you to change to another class, and you agree. Back to living in instances for 5 months, so much for that real life you were planning on now that you had enough shards.</p><p>As for crafting tokens, you still can't spend them until you get faction so if you make another crafter you have to do the quests to gain faction but at least once you get faction you can use your other char's tokens instead of running the TS mission everyday for another month.</p><p>Of course it doesn't help me TOO Much since my 3x 80 adventureers happen to all be on separate accounts and my crafters: 3 share one account, 2 share one account and 1 is alone. But.. it's a start. I realize allowing this cross account even if you are the owner would make for for huge appeal to gear up and sell characters out of game for cash easier, but again that is another case of hurting the real players to stop much smaller number of people who break the rules.</p><p>I have wished for years now, ever since I got a 2nd account that they would somehow link all accounts you own so they could be paid in one fee (perhaps even a $1-2 discount for paying for several subs to soe!) and you could share whatever else they decide to let you share among characters.</p></blockquote><p>While I see your point and it does have merit. I just don't see how SoE could link accounts in this manor without a MAJOR overhaul to the entire game system. So in this case I would rather "punish" the extreemly few to avoid losing months and months of development on greater issues for the many. Plus, how would you really verify that they are owned by the same player? Credit Card? What about Families that play together there is a good chance all of them use the same card, so if SoE used this as verification now it could would be a siduation where the PLAYER possobly would not be earning the shards. If that is the case then might as well remove the NO TRADE tag all together which I am very much against.</p>

[DngrMou]

<p>This is a great idea.  Kudos, SOE!  I'd also like to see this flag extended to cover a lot of the legendary loot that's dropping in TSO instances...It feels wrong to vendor off loot my alts could put to good use.</p>

[GrunEQ]

<p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Bring it on!  Your account should all be linked.  I can understand attuning gear, but no-trade has gotten out of hand.  You should be able to pass around stuff one toon can't use to another.  Once it's attuned then the passing ends.  No-trade is also the bane of transmutters.</span></p>

[Noaani]

<p>Personally, I would want to see this tag only used in specific circumstances.</p><p>Adding it to all no-trade loot in dungeons means that players will never run instances on their alts, and will just gear them up via the shared bank. Having a base set of gear that is tradeable to your alts is cool (void shard) but that character should need to run instances to gear up past that point (purchasing looting rights aside).</p><p>Things I would like to see this tag used for is to make outdated quests that are still needed for whatever reason easier, such as To Speak as a Dragon. Make Naggy hand players that have done this quest an item with all the dragon runes (possibly a book or scroll that can be placed in a house) with the Heirloom tag, when a character gets to the point in the quest to rind the runes, examining this item will update them all.</p><p>It prevent monotonus repeating of the same steps, yet means that any given player needs to still do those steps.</p>

[Deson]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Personally, I would want to see this tag only used in specific circumstances.</p><p>Adding it to all no-trade loot in dungeons means that players will never run instances on their alts, and will just gear them up via the shared bank. Having a base set of gear that is tradeable to your alts is cool (void shard) but that character should need to run instances to gear up past that point (purchasing looting rights aside).</p><p>Things I would like to see this tag used for is to make outdated quests that are still needed for whatever reason easier, such as To Speak as a Dragon. Make Naggy hand players that have done this quest an item with all the dragon runes (possibly a book or scroll that can be placed in a house) with the Heirloom tag, when a character gets to the point in the quest to rind the runes, examining this item will update them all.</p><p>It prevent monotonus repeating of the same steps, yet means that any given player needs to still do those steps.</p></blockquote><p>I think it should be deployed to almost all no-trade gear( all but sepcial pieces essentially). Even if someone gears up alts through the bank, it doesn't account for player skill and doesn't even affect the game quality. The more liberal use of the heirloom tag  allows options for people who have high demand chars to gear up the other chars while  feeling less pressured and stuck.</p><p>It used to be almost all loot--including raid loot-- was tradable and no one was the worse for it. The no-trade trend has swung much to far the other way but heirloom is an acceptable medium. Not like loot rights hasn't made most " you have to play to gear up" arguments to moot.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Deson wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Personally, I would want to see this tag only used in specific circumstances.</p><p>Adding it to all no-trade loot in dungeons means that players will never run instances on their alts, and will just gear them up via the shared bank. Having a base set of gear that is tradeable to your alts is cool (void shard) but that character should need to run instances to gear up past that point (purchasing looting rights aside).</p><p>Things I would like to see this tag used for is to make outdated quests that are still needed for whatever reason easier, such as To Speak as a Dragon. Make Naggy hand players that have done this quest an item with all the dragon runes (possibly a book or scroll that can be placed in a house) with the Heirloom tag, when a character gets to the point in the quest to rind the runes, examining this item will update them all.</p><p>It prevent monotonus repeating of the same steps, yet means that any given player needs to still do those steps.</p></blockquote><p>I think it should be deployed to almost all no-trade gear( all but sepcial pieces essentially). Even if someone gears up alts through the bank, it doesn't account for player skill and doesn't even affect the game quality. The more liberal use of the heirloom tag  allows options for people who have high demand chars to gear up the other chars while  feeling less pressured and stuck.</p><p>It used to be almost all loot--including raid loot-- was tradable and no one was the worse for it. The no-trade trend has swung much to far the other way but heirloom is an acceptable medium. Not like loot rights hasn't made most " you have to play to gear up" arguments to moot.</p></blockquote><p>The No Trade tag allowed for loot to be far more powerful, as supposedly the player with the item accually earned it. I don't have a problem with this, I also think any equipable item that gets this tag should become an atunable item and as such must be attuned and therefor untradable among alts.</p><p>Personally my view is that Quest loot, should get the Heirloom Tag, as chances are your alt will have to run it the quest anyway to get the AA, but High Quality* Dropped loot should ONLY goto the people that accually participated in the fight that produced the loot... and YES that means I think SoE should try and figure out how to end the selling of loot rights.</p><p>*Just to be clear I also think there should be less rare lower quality drops(at around Mastercrafted level) that is tradeable, but those drops should not interfear with quality drops off of named.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Just to be clear I also think there should be less rare lower quality drops(at around Mastercrafted level) that is tradeable, but those drops should not interfear with quality drops off of named.</blockquote><p>Wouldn't that kill whats left of the Mastercrafted market?</p>

[Warr]

<p>Are these items able to be transferred through mail or only through the shared bank?</p>

[Deson]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Just to be clear I also think there should be less rare lower quality drops(at around Mastercrafted level) that is tradeable, but those drops should not interfear with quality drops off of named.</blockquote><p>Wouldn't that kill whats left of the Mastercrafted market?</p></blockquote><p>Not if they do it with a smarter version of chromatic essences. Chromatics essences and Reflective shards were brilliant ideas asked for for sometime but they need some tweaking to not drop to incarnadine prices. Speaking of incranadine, that needs to be fixed too.</p><p>Besides, beyond a few pieces, mastercrafted at the latest teir is pretty dead anyway.  I also recall reading that the devs could add a lockout tag restricting loot to only those at the kill but that the culture of the game was such that it would have to be done with too much caution.</p>

[liveja]

<p>I agree pretty much entirely with the OP. Since Kordran has already articulated my reasons for opposition, I'll just leave it at that.</p>

[DMIstar]

<p><em>"The only objective information other players have about you is your gear."</em></p><p>This is the real Issue. You should not be determining Players Skill lvl due to gear that you inspect on the character. The Two has nothing in common. Not Raid gear, Not Mythicals, Not anything.. If you know the class you could get a small hint with the stats and the direction the person has choosen to build with But thats not going to say much.</p><p>The only solution for you is, to stop doing pickup groups.</p><p>as for my thoughts on hand with the shard change.. Its a non issue with me.. I think the no trade tag has been grossly missued as it is .. The broker is a joke nowadays.  all of this lock down done to get rid of the supposed issue of unexperiecend players.. which fails day by day anyway in unimaginable ways... And why are they max lvl ? Because we are in a 7+ year old game that is completly top heavy and the lower content at this point sucks ...</p><p>At least in EQ back in the Day.. When Wanting to have fun and a break from grinding I could make a toon, Move my Iksar Ceremonial BP and Spiked Seahorse hide Belt and a few other things to an alt and run around... Yeah it was tweaked, though then again i already spent hours and days in FoB, Loio, OT, DL and so forth lvling straight.</p>

[freel]

<p>I think the heirloom tag is a great idea, not only for shards but most especially for commissioned crafted items. It does seem silly that we cannot share with ourselves, i.e. our alts.</p><p>It also would make a big difference for storage if we could place no-trade and lore items in our share bank.</p><p>I say the benefits far outweigh any potential issues. Let's do it! (and don't forget the crafted commission items, proof is in the pudding, AA mirrors, etc.) Thanks!</p>

[greenmantle]

<p><cite>Sigrdrifa@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I like the idea because I do have more than one level 80 toon, and since groups almost always need me to either play tank or healer, my ranger gets left in the dust many times for group zones and instances.</p><p>Since we do in fact have bozos who have purchased fully-geared toons via eBay or paid some shady company to power-level them, we do get people with the gear who absolutely have no idea how to play their toon already. I can't see that "hand-me-down" shards will make it any worse /shrug.</p></blockquote><p>I know the feeling im trying to equip my mystic but get, we have a healer/s can you bring your dirge, would make it easier to cheerfully say yes if i knew he would be getting the shards.</p>

[Gisallo]

<p>I think this is a great change.  I am having LOADS of fun on my Mystic whic is near to 80 but, 75% of the time there is a call for an instance group its..."Dude can you get your Zerker".   I would like to see this added to Legendary Attuneable Lore items as well.  I think it was down right silly that the other day I had to put Fire Fury Leggings in my Zerkers bank and wait until a friend was on to act as a go between to get them to my Mystic.  If I can sell or simply give an item to another person it should just be shared bankable period.  Anything else makes NO logical sense.</p>

[Crymsyn]

<p>I really like this idea. But I would *love* it if they applied this to house items as well.</p>

[Keliae]

<p>I think it's a great idea for all the mentioned reasons. </p><p>I'd really love to see this tag applied to the TS epic pieces.  I mean seriously... if I spend the time leveling 5 crafters to 80 and doing the epic questline on all of them (including full Bathezid faction on all but one, since they're all under level 60 adventurer) I'd really love to be able to make each of those items for my own toons.</p>

[hellfire]

<p><cite>Warren@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are these items able to be transferred through mail or only through the shared bank?</p></blockquote><p>Id say just shared bank cause there is no reason at all to mail it to another toon on same account.</p>

[denmom]

<p><cite>Keliae wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think it's a great idea for all the mentioned reasons. </p><p>I'd really love to see this tag applied to the TS epic pieces.  I mean seriously... if I spend the time leveling 5 crafters to 80 and doing the epic questline on all of them (including full Bathezid faction on all but one, since they're all under level 60 adventurer) I'd really love to be able to make each of those items for my own toons.</p></blockquote><p>I hear ya.</p><p>I've 8 crafters...it was hell moving 7 of them thru the ts epic at the same time.  >_<</p>

[Warr]

<p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Warren@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are these items able to be transferred through mail or only through the shared bank?</p></blockquote><p>Id say just shared bank cause there is no reason at all to mail it to another toon on same account.</p></blockquote><p>Damned city folk and your fancy shared banks... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Orthureon]

<p>This is a great change! I would even dare to say they should take it one step further and add the "Heirloom" tag to the Fabled and Legendary No-Trade items from the new zones.</p>

[Raveen]

<p>Cool idea maby add the tag to some of the LON items woot ? I have old alts I dont play and would love to transfer my ninja suit to main <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>

[ShadowMunkie]

<p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is a great change! I would even dare to say they should take it one step further and add the "Heirloom" tag to the Fabled and Legendary No-Trade items from the new zones.</p></blockquote><p>Quote for effort!</p><p>This idea has been the brightest so far this year. This tag is very nice and would cut down on ALOT of selling/buy/waiting in raids/groups but, lets get real. They aren't going to change the No-Trade tag, why?</p><p>1) It forces people to play the game longer.or2) It forces people to buy them with plat.</p><p>Removing the No-Trade tag from all instance items other than the patterns from TSO and ROK would bring the market back alive and would really feel like actual people play the game.</p>

[Trojenn]

<p><cite>Warren@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Warren@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are these items able to be transferred through mail or only through the shared bank?</p></blockquote><p>Id say just shared bank cause there is no reason at all to mail it to another toon on same account.</p></blockquote><p><strong>Damned city folk and your fancy shared banks... </strong><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Completely agree, if they make them sharable please allow Mailing of these items also. Some of us do not like the city life. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[SilkenKidden]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It looks like shards and tokens now have an heirloom tag which, presumably, allows them to be shared amongst alternate characters on the same account (they can be put in the shared bank), but cannot be traded with other players. What do people think about this?</p><p>I understand that probably a lot of players will probably like this, as they'll be able to "farm" for shards on their main, and feed them to alts to gear them up. But something about that just seems wrong to me. I see them as rewards that are to be earned by the player for that character, and if you have an alt, then run that alt through the instances. I guess the other thing that concerns me is you'll have people running around in full sets of T2 void gear who have little or no experience in the zones; it kind of ties back to issues like people buying mythical updates who don't have a terribly good grasp of how to play their character. The only objective information other players have about you is your gear, and the ability to essentially farm no-trade drops for alts further muddies those waters.</p><p>In other words, if I see a player in a full set of T2 void gear, today it's a pretty safe assumption that they have some experience running a variety of the TSO zones. That won't be true 100% of the time (e.g.: people using mentoring to farm shards, etc.) but as a rough generalization, it should hold true for most players. With this change, you can have people running around wearing the best legendary gear in the game and they've not spent a single second inside any TSO instance on that character. In fact, it'll be possible for someone to completely gear up an alt and have never, ever grouped on that toon. That just seems wrong to me, but I'm sure a lot of people will disagree.</p></blockquote><p>I think this is a wonderful idea.  It should be applied to more items in the future. </p><p>If we have played EQ long enough to raise a family here, our families should be recognized as such.  My tailor and sage chat over dinner.  My sage has learned some tailoring from her sister and my tailor knows more about making spells than the average tailor.  My toons should at least be able to share the TS buff gear with each other. </p><p>My transmuter should be able to transmute for the whole family.   All family members should be able to use the items my tinker makes.  I know these last two will naver fly, but what the hey<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/47941865eb7bbc2a777305b46cc059a2.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Cyrdemac]

<p><cite>Warren@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are these items able to be transferred through mail or only through the shared bank?</p></blockquote><p>Shared Bankslot only.</p><p>And I like the idea.</p>

[Windowlicker]

<p>I love this idea.</p><p>Why should I be restricted to one character simply because I feel he needs shards before my alts?  This way, I can play all of my characters and decide after everything is said and done who gets the benefit of having the shards from the work.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Trojenn@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Warren@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Warren@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are these items able to be transferred through mail or only through the shared bank?</p></blockquote><p>Id say just shared bank cause there is no reason at all to mail it to another toon on same account.</p></blockquote><p><strong>Damned city folk and your fancy shared banks... </strong><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Completely agree, if they make them sharable please allow Mailing of these items also. Some of us do not like the city life. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I doupt mail is possable because mail does not check to see if you can have it, as such it would cause a CS nightmare...wich is why LORE can't be mailed.</p>

[Seolta]

<p>One of the better "little changes" to come out in awhile.</p><p>Makes things so much less hassle for those of us with small personal armies.</p>

[CrazyHandsMatt]

<p>Fantastic idea, however I would definitely not want no-trade items from instances getting heirloom flag as it could cause too many problems in groups and especially PUG's, imagine going through an instance and you get to last boss and some uber fabled item drops you have been wanting for ages and some noob needs it for his alt and wins it.</p><p>I think tbh the only way of ever making no trade items be given to alt would have to be something along the lines of a 4 loot option ie Need, Greed, Decline and Need for Alt and it got given to the alt you specified immediately. But even then I think many people would not be happy about that due to the fact that people rely on a few leg trash items dropping and greeding on them to sell to vendor to get some cash to pay for repair bills and funding buying masters etc. You would need a NDG plus Alts option for looting setting so everybody agreed to it before going in.</p><p>But as they not doing that and they only putting the heirloom flag on the void shards it is not an issue!</p><p>^_^</p>

[Senr]

<p><cite>Junaru wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Crappy players will be crappy players regardless of the gear they are in. And I fail to see how someone who has farmed enough shards to gear himself and an ALT would not be well versed in a zone.</p><p>I personally like the idea. As someone who has nearly all the pieces I want I like that I can use the shards for alts.</p></blockquote><p>What you're missing here is that the point isn't to be able to transfer shards from toon A to toon B, but for a person who has gone through the effort of leveling to 80 as a tradeskiller to be able to make gear for their own alts. It is annoying to have leveled up to an 80 alchemist on my templar, who then also went through the trouble of getting the shard armor recipes, but when I need to make shard armor for my bruiser, I still need to find someone who can craft it for me. Because I'm on the same account and this stuff has to be commissioned.  I don't want to be able to transfer shards. They both earn them on their own. I just want to be able to make commissioned-only items for myself.</p>

[Terrifier]

<p> What a great addition to the game. I seem to always have to be on my Dirge and there is never enough time to run instance's for my alt. I also would hope the use of the heirloom tag might be extend to gear that is tagged no-drop also. What an excellent idea to be able to have usable loot for everyone and create more interest in EQ2 for alts and new players.</p><p>Comment added</p><p>Maybe they could add something to loot options to allow for this. Say Need means it becomes no-trade for the character looting it. Then add button saying Heirloom that does not override need and allows it to be traded via shared bank. That would eliminate people losing out on gear they are running instances for to an alt.</p>

[Wytie]

<p>Great another thing exiles get pointlessly left out on. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Which bring up another point why in the hell cant exiles have shared banks with other exiled alts. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Seems like a great idea just make it so everyone can enjoy it, maybe next year.......</p>

[zaneluke]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In other words, if I see a player in a full set of T2 void gear, today it's a pretty safe assumption that they have some experience running a variety of the TSO zones. That won't be true 100% of the time (e.g.: people using mentoring to farm shards, etc.) but as a rough generalization, it should hold true for most players. With this change, you can have people running around wearing the best legendary gear in the game and they've not spent a single second inside any TSO instance on that character. In fact, it'll be possible for someone to completely gear up an alt and have never, ever grouped on that toon. That just seems wrong to me, but I'm sure a lot of people will disagree.</p></blockquote><p>I know TONS of people that are getting shards in greyed out zones. The only prblem i have with this is some of the greyed out zones can be done in 15 minutes.</p><p>#1 grey out zone to level 50. run three level 80s you have through it. Boom three shards.</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>Pail@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Great another thing exiles get pointlessly left out on. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>The point as to why you're "left out" is that you choose to be outlaws. The shared bank system is for law-abiding, loyal partisans of Lucan & Antonia. Want those bennies? Quit being an outlaw <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p><p>But don't worry, I'm sure that Exiles will whine loudly enough that SOE will relent & give you shared bank slots <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Wytie]

<p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pail@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Great another thing exiles get pointlessly left out on. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>The point as to why you're "left out" is that you choose to be outlaws. The shared bank system is for law-abiding, loyal partisans of Lucan & Antonia. Want those bennies? Quit being an outlaw <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p><p>But don't worry, I'm sure that Exiles will whine loudly enough that SOE will relent & give you shared bank slots <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p> you have no idea what you are talking about, GG</p>

[zaneluke]

<p>I cant wait for this to go on live!</p><p>I have 80 crafters. They will be able to share tradeskill tokens? LOL. so i just have to run all 6 of them through the easy 15 minute weekly quest to get 6 tokens? 24 tokens a month for my main harvester crafter through shared banking? Woot to the easy button!</p><p>My mystic gets tons of groups, warlock is on side burner. So now i can get my warlock upgraded in shard armor without ever having to run a zone, thank god.</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>Pail@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pail@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Great another thing exiles get pointlessly left out on. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>The point as to why you're "left out" is that you choose to be outlaws. The shared bank system is for law-abiding, loyal partisans of Lucan & Antonia. Want those bennies? Quit being an outlaw <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p><p>But don't worry, I'm sure that Exiles will whine loudly enough that SOE will relent & give you shared bank slots <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p> you have no idea what you are talking about, GG</p></blockquote><p>Then perhaps you should try actually putting forth an argument to refute me.</p><p>Good luck.</p>

[Wytie]

<p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pail@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pail@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Great another thing exiles get pointlessly left out on. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>The point as to why you're "left out" is that you choose to be outlaws. The shared bank system is for law-abiding, loyal partisans of Lucan & Antonia. Want those bennies? Quit being an outlaw <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p><p>But don't worry, I'm sure that Exiles will whine loudly enough that SOE will relent & give you shared bank slots <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p> you have no idea what you are talking about, GG</p></blockquote><p>Then perhaps you should try actually putting forth an argument to refute me.</p><p>Good luck.</p></blockquote><p>I nipped you in the butt already in my thread, now your just wasting your time.</p><p>Better luck next time.</p>

[Cigam]

<p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pail@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Great another thing exiles get pointlessly left out on. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>The point as to why you're "left out" is that you choose to be outlaws. The shared bank system is for law-abiding, loyal partisans of Lucan & Antonia. Want those bennies? Quit being an outlaw <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p><p>But don't worry, I'm sure that Exiles will whine loudly enough that SOE will relent & give you shared bank slots <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>KInda like City Folk complaining that cant beat VP cause they didnt have all classes?  /nod  but that is for another post.  Sorry for the derail.</p>

[GrunEQ]

<p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Addressing the NBG arguement on Heirloom....my thought has always been that you could/should only <strong><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">need </span></em></strong>for the toon you are on at that time, otherwise you would <strong><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">greed</span></em></strong> it if it was for anything else including alts.</span></p>

[Jaffa Tamarin]

<p><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Addressing the NBG arguement on Heirloom....my thought has always been that you could/should only <strong><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">need </span></em></strong>for the toon you are on at that time, otherwise you would <strong><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">greed</span></em></strong> it if it was for anything else including alts.</span></p></blockquote><p>Most of the groups that I run with think that "I would like it for an alt" should take priority over "I'm just going to sell this".  This is fine for tradeable items where people can ask for things for alts after the loot roll is over, if nobody selected NEED.  But if it becomes possible to pass otherwise no-trade items to alts, there may not be time for this discussion to happen before the loot roll occurs.  It would be useful if there was an intermediate option between NEED and GREED which could be used for "I want this for an alt" (or "I want this for vanity armor", or whatever).</p>

[jolissa3]

<p><cite>zaneluke wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I cant wait for this to go on live!</p><p>I have 80 crafters. They will be able to share tradeskill tokens? LOL. so i just have to run all 6 of them through the easy 15 minute weekly quest to get 6 tokens? 24 tokens a month for my main harvester crafter through shared banking? Woot to the easy button!</p></blockquote><p>lol, to buy what? Maybe one day I will be able to hitch up a dozen unicorns up to a stage coach then I will have something to spend tokens on.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Faell@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol, to buy what? Maybe one day I will be able to hitch up a dozen unicorns up to a stage coach then I will have something to spend tokens on.</p></blockquote><p>Heh, yeah that's a good point. Pretty soon, shards and tokens will end up in the same downward spiral as plat. Lots of 'em, and nothing useful to do with them.</p>

[Jehanne]

<p>I think the heirloom tag is great.  Now if only we could convince SOE to get rid of the LORE tag for collectibles like piano keys.  Currently if I harvest a red shiney piano key, for example, I can't mail it nor can I put it in the shared bank. </p><p>I wouldn't support the heirloom tag except that people already sell shard armor, they already sell looting rights, heck they sell mythicals.  Since the game has degraded to this point I see no reason to not make it easier on myself by allowing my main to gather up shards for my alt.</p>

[revren]

<p>Hey Hey</p><p>While i am OK with the shards being traded, the idea that items that people want items sharable , i would be very much against.  You should have to earn what you get either threw running the instance and knowing your char , or spending the plat to buy it from someone. If some one wants something for there alt they can ask in group, and 9/10 the only thing i ask is the your alt be at the door.  </p><p>Welcome Home</p><p>Rev</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Senr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Junaru wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Crappy players will be crappy players regardless of the gear they are in. And I fail to see how someone who has farmed enough shards to gear himself and an ALT would not be well versed in a zone.</p><p>I personally like the idea. As someone who has nearly all the pieces I want I like that I can use the shards for alts.</p></blockquote><p>What you're missing here is that the point isn't to be able to transfer shards from toon A to toon B, but for a person who has gone through the effort of leveling to 80 as a tradeskiller to be able to make gear for their own alts. It is annoying to have leveled up to an 80 alchemist on my templar, who then also went through the trouble of getting the shard armor recipes, but when I need to make shard armor for my bruiser, I still need to find someone who can craft it for me. Because I'm on the same account and this stuff has to be commissioned.  I don't want to be able to transfer shards. They both earn them on their own. I just want to be able to make commissioned-only items for myself.</p></blockquote><p>If your Brusier is not on the same account as your Alchemist you can ALREADY pass Shard armor to it... Just Duel Box the Brusier and Alchemist and have the Alchemist commision the stuff to the bruiser... it does not matter who holds the shards the Crafter or the Adventurer the Brusier will still get the item. This is without the Heirloom tag.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Pail@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pail@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Great another thing exiles get pointlessly left out on. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>The point as to why you're "left out" is that you choose to be outlaws. The shared bank system is for law-abiding, loyal partisans of Lucan & Antonia. Want those bennies? Quit being an outlaw <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p><p>But don't worry, I'm sure that Exiles will whine loudly enough that SOE will relent & give you shared bank slots <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p> you have no idea what you are talking about, GG</p></blockquote><p>No accually YOU don't, The heaven was and is intended to be a TRANSITORY place that has limited city benfits as you are NOT ment to remain exile. Exile is NOT a "third faction" it is just a state you are suposed to suffer through while your earn the way into the good graces of one of the two real factions. IMO, I think Exiles should not have a Call(there should be one way zone in doors in all overland zones, there should be no broker and you don't get access to any housing(even Maj'dul cause they can't trust you either).</p>

[zaneluke]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Faell@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol, to buy what? Maybe one day I will be able to hitch up a dozen unicorns up to a stage coach then I will have something to spend tokens on.</p></blockquote><p>Heh, yeah that's a good point. Pretty soon, shards and tokens will end up in the same downward spiral as plat. Lots of 'em, and nothing useful to do with them.</p></blockquote><p>BINGO!</p>

[zaneluke]

<p><cite>revren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>  You should have to earn what you get either threw running the instance and knowing your char , or spending the plat to buy it from someone.</p></blockquote><p>People run grey zones for shards and people buy plat with RL$$$$$. Kind of tosses out that whole theory huh?</p>

[CrazyMoogle]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What do people think about this?</p></blockquote><p>That it's an awesome change that I'm definitely looking forward to.</p><p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I guess the other thing that concerns me is you'll have people running around in full sets of T2 void gear who have little or no experience in the zones</p></blockquote><p>If they have no experience in the zones then how did they get the shards to begin with?  Anyway, if you can play 1 class well at 80 then you can play any class well at 80.  It's not a hard game to play.</p><p>Plus this makes it much easier to set up groups.  People don't have to worry about "I wanna get shards for this character" and end up wasting time trying to put together a group.  You can play any of your characters and just use the shards on whichever one needs gear.</p><p>Awesome change.</p>

[CrazyMoogle]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The argument could be made that if they're doing this, why have the no-trade flag at all and just switch everything to the "heirloom" tag so that you could complete quests, collections, etc. and hand the rewards off to alts?</p></blockquote><p>That would be another awesome change.</p>

[Turb]

<p>I think shared shards on the same account is a brilliant idea.</p><p>It means I can help a guildie do an instance with any of my four mains and earn shards for any of them doing it.   Rather than saying 'oh sorry I need shards on my warden' I can tank it with my monk and pass the shards to the warden.</p><p>Really nice.   Just shared bank would be fine - no need to have them mailed.</p><p>I think it would also be excellent if some crafted items were heirloom tagged, e.g. an AA mirror, or other (currently) no-trade stuff, so an alt crafter can make stuff for another toon on the same account.</p>

[Bratface]

<p><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Addressing the NBG arguement on Heirloom....my thought has always been that you could/should only <strong><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">need </span></em></strong>for the toon you are on at that time, otherwise you would <strong><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">greed</span></em></strong> it if it was for anything else including alts.</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I feel the same way Grun, but sadly a lot of people will need an item when it is really just greed. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">We were discussing just such griefing last night and wondering how it would affect the group dynamics, does it become ok to roll on something for an alt since the alt does indeed need it? Where does it stop?</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I am all for the tokens and shards having the heirloom tag, I think it's great, I would also like to see it on some of the quest rewards that are notrade as well so we can give those to alts as well.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I am on the fence about dropped notrade gear though, but since it wouldn't affect me in the least I dont really care what happens, as long as it doesn't dilute the market for crafted gear as a stepping stone to better legendary gear.</span></p>

[CrazyMoogle]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Adding it to all no-trade loot in dungeons means that players will never run instances on their alts, and will just gear them up via the shared bank.</p></blockquote><p>That's silly.  Of course they will run with their alts.  People don't gear up characters to NOT play them.  And besides, alts need AA experience, too, so obviously people are going to continue playing their characters even if everything in the entire game was dropable.</p>

[FreaklyCreak]

<p>-My warden and my brother's conj will be needed more then my shadowknight and his guardians. This allows us to still save shards for those characters after we get warbears and T2 shard gear.</p><p>-If I am bad at playing my alt then I am bad, I still enjoy it. I will still run each dougeon atleast once to completion with all my 80s for just the fun.</p><p>-I like this concept and I hope it gets put on all items gained through /claim that are 1 per account, I hope it is used throughout the game in many aspects including live event items.</p>

[zaneluke]

<p><cite>Annara@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they have no experience in the zones then how did they get the shards to begin with? </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Called running grey zones. You can do up to 6 a day if you have a 50 -55 toon grey them out for you. </span></p><p> Anyway, if you can play 1 class well at 80 then you can play any class well at 80.  It's not a hard game to play.</p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Oakmiser@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If I am bad at playing my alt then I am bad, I still enjoy it. I will still run each dougeon atleast once to completion with all my 80s for just the fun.</p></blockquote><p>ROFL. So, it's okay for others to fully experience the breadth and depth of your suck, as long as <em>you're</em> having a good time? Well, that's just splendid for you. Not so much for the rest of your group, though.</p>

[Oakum]

<p><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>GrunEQ wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Addressing the NBG arguement on Heirloom....my thought has always been that you could/should only <strong><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">need </span></em></strong>for the toon you are on at that time, otherwise you would <strong><em><span style="text-decoration: underline;">greed</span></em></strong> it if it was for anything else including alts.</span></p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I feel the same way Grun, but sadly a lot of people will need an item when it is really just greed. </span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">We were discussing just such griefing last night and wondering how it would affect the group dynamics, does it become ok to roll on something for an alt since the alt does indeed need it? Where does it stop?</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I am all for the tokens and shards having the heirloom tag, I think it's great, I would also like to see it on some of the quest rewards that are notrade as well so we can give those to alts as well.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: tahoma,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">I am on the fence about dropped notrade gear though, but since it wouldn't affect me in the least I dont really care what happens, as long as it doesn't dilute the market for crafted gear as a stepping stone to better legendary gear.</span></p></blockquote><p>This has always been our guild official police of NBG of characters in group only. It is the best way to prevent griefing. After all, when that rare lower lvl 70 master drops, there is none of the class in the group, what is there to stop anyone from needing it for a fictiosious alt or one that doesnt really need it so they can sell it.</p><p>Since players can block alts from being listed on EQ2 Players, you cannot even tell if they are lying or not.</p><p>NBG of characters in group only is the best way to go. Now there is nothing preventing all the players in the group from agreeing to let someone have something for an alt but if anyone doesnt want to, thats it. Its just NBG.</p><p>The heirloom tag for shards or tokens is fine to me but for gear and equipment from quests or dropped off mobs in dungeons, no thanks, I dont believe they should have it other then those 2 items and maybe house item use only rewards that have no. If the dev's want drops to be tradeable, thyc could take off the no trade tag for that item only.</p><p>I have a feeling the adventuring gear that they want to be tradeable is already marked as attunable and not no trade anyway though, lol.</p><p>No trade is a way to keep people doing content to get drops they want and not grow bored and quit playing. Less players is bad for EQ2 both from a company and a player viewpoint since that means there are less people to group with and causes nasty things like server mergers, ect.</p>

[MrWolfie]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Oakmiser@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If I am bad at playing my alt then I am bad, I still enjoy it. I will still run each dougeon atleast once to completion with all my 80s for just the fun.</p></blockquote><p>ROFL. So, it's okay for others to fully experience the breadth and depth of your suck, as long as <em>you're</em> having a good time? Well, that's just splendid for you. Not so much for the rest of your group, though.</p></blockquote><p>Welcome to the TRUE meaning of multi-player online games.</p><p>Everyone is allowed to suck. Which is just as well, given the sucktastic attitude of many people playing this game.</p><p>You don't need to pass a test to play the game. And if fun can't be had without first ensuring the balance of your group meets exacting standards, then quite frankly, it's the gaming snob who is really lowering morale.</p><p>PS. Heirloom flag = great change.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>MrWolfie wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Welcome to the TRUE meaning of multi-player online games.</p><p>Everyone is allowed to suck. Which is just as well, given the sucktastic attitude of many people playing this game.</p></blockquote><p>This makes me think you're a product of the modern education system where there are no "losers", there's only winners who didn't come in first place. God forbid your self-esteem be lessened because others recognize that you're not actually very good at what you're trying to do, and call you on it.</p><p>No one should be "allowed" to suck. They should be encouraged to improve, and assisted in meeting their goals, as long as they're willing to put in the work -- helping those who help themselves and all that good stuff. This is one of the primary functions of guilds: players helping other players suck less, improve their gameplay, improve their toons and progress through the content.</p><p>It is not okay to suck. Instead, learn how to play the game.</p>

[mallice]

<p><cite>Anordil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Eh, I think you're overreacting to this. I, for one, applaud the change. I've backburnered levelling some alts because my main is most often needed. Once I've upgraded his armor with the shards, what's the point of continuing to collect them if they just sit and gather dust? Now, if I can pass them on to an alt, that's fantastic - especially since my dirge will need more of them than my templar does.</p><p>As for someone "looking good on paper", I really won't fret about this. I've never, ever grouped with someone solely based on their gear, in fact, the quality of someone's gear isn't something I dwell on. If they're good people and are struggling a bit because they've suboptimal gear, why not work with them to help them get the gear they need? Frankly, appearances are deceiving. Just because someone is decked out in fabled gear doesn't mean they're a delight to group with.</p></blockquote><p>Great comment.  I leveled a Sk to 80 then put that toon on the back burner 8-9 ish months ago to start and level a Coercer to 80.  Once I got my coercer to pretty decent gear, I just brought my SK out or retirement.  His gear was definitely lacking to embarrassment but I had plenty of experience being main tank in groups.  </p><p>I was honest with my groups that my gear was lacking and had lots of cobwebs in the mind to dust off.  Every group was excellent in supporting me and encouraging me to succeed despite a screw up or too.  Now my SK is just about in a full set of T1 TOS Armor and pretty much back in the swing of things.  I've appreciated the support, encouragement, and advice every step of the way because groups worked with me.  I couldn't have done that without understanding groups.  </p><p>On the other hand, I have once gotten invited to a group.  As soon as the group leader saw my gear, he said NM (Never mind) in group chat and kicked me with no warning or explanation.  I had to pester the guy to find out why.  After a while I finally got them to explain that my gear wasn't good enough.  That kind of rude game snobbishness is unnecessary.</p><p>Some patience, understanding, and encouragement for fellow players out there really helps build real camaraderie and friendship.</p><p>For those of us adults that have limited play time because of Real Life responsibilities like a career and teen age children to take care of, this change is excellent.  I won't have to just try and get a group with one character because of a need to get shards for gear. I can get into the first group I can and not care which toon I'm playing.  I'm sorry that those of you who have many more hours to play may be upset about this change.  I think casual players will rejoice.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>mallice wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>On the other hand, I have once gotten invited to a group. As soon as the group leader saw my gear, he said NM (Never mind) in group chat and kicked me with no warning or explanation. I had to pester the guy to find out why. After a while I finally got them to explain that my gear wasn't good enough. That kind of rudeness is unnecessary.</p><p>Some patience, understanding, and encouragement for fellow players out there really helps build real camaraderie and friendship.</p></blockquote><p>I suspect that whoever the group was, wanted to avoid a confrontration. Some instances are difficult enough with a geared tank; bringing one that is poorly geared is just a waste of time. And rather than getting into some kind of debate, it's easier to just /kick. I'd agree it would be nice to tell the person why -- "I'm sorry, but we need a tank with better gear than what you have now" -- but that's how things go. Heck, I'm raid geared and have been told buy groups that they only wanted a Guardian. I didn't get upset about it, it's just the way things go. Pepole have their own particular idea of what a solid group is.</p><p>Generally speaking, if you want "patience, understanding and encouragement", that's what a guild group is for, not a pickup group. PUGs are about getting the job done with minimal hassle.</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Heck, I'm raid geared and have been told buy groups that they only wanted a Guardian</p></blockquote><p>LOL which groups?  what server?  what timezone? what instances? =P</p>

[CrazyMoogle]

<p><cite>zaneluke wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Annara@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they have no experience in the zones then how did they get the shards to begin with? </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Called running grey zones. You can do up to 6 a day if you have a 50 -55 toon grey them out for you. </span></p><p> Anyway, if you can play 1 class well at 80 then you can play any class well at 80.  It's not a hard game to play.</p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></blockquote></blockquote><p>Who cares if they are running grey zones?  If they're spending their entire day running grey zones then they're obviously not grouping with you, so this doesn't affect you at all.</p><p>As for the second part I have no idea what your little icons there are supposed to mean.  I'm guessing you are someone who has trouble grasping the game and the thought that people find it to be not very difficult is perplexing to you?</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heck, I'm raid geared and have been told buy groups that they only wanted a Guardian</p></blockquote><p>LOL which groups? what server? what timezone? what instances? =P</p></blockquote><p>ROFL. Not yours, I'm afraid. (Edit: The particular instance I was thinking of when I wrote that was a Ravenscale group)</p>

[mallice]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>mallice wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>On the other hand, I have once gotten invited to a group. As soon as the group leader saw my gear, he said NM (Never mind) in group chat and kicked me with no warning or explanation. I had to pester the guy to find out why. After a while I finally got them to explain that my gear wasn't good enough. That kind of rudeness is unnecessary.</p><p>Some patience, understanding, and encouragement for fellow players out there really helps build real camaraderie and friendship.</p></blockquote><p>I suspect that whoever the group was, wanted to avoid a confrontration. Some instances are difficult enough with a geared tank; bringing one that is poorly geared is just a waste of time. And rather than getting into some kind of debate, it's easier to just /kick. I'd agree it would be nice to tell the person why -- "I'm sorry, but we need a tank with better gear than what you have now" -- but that's how things go. Heck, I'm raid geared and have been told buy groups that they only wanted a Guardian. I didn't get upset about it, it's just the way things go. Pepole have their own particular idea of what a solid group is.</p><p>Generally speaking, if you want "patience, understanding and encouragement", that's what a guild group is for, not a pickup group. PUGs are about getting the job done with minimal hassle.</p></blockquote><p>Well, Kordan,</p><p>After I got what explanation I could for being kicked, my response was by telling him; all he had to do was tell me that my gear was lacking and would be a problem, I would have gladly stepped aside.  Inviting someone then immediately kicking them without some form of mature explanation is just plain rude.  What's wrong with expecting just a tiny bit of maturity in the interaction with fellow players in game and on the forums.  This may be just a game, but we are all people sitting at keyboards playing.  Don't assume that another player is not mature enough to take criticism.</p><p>Treat others they way you would want to be treated.  Sound familiar?</p>

[greenmantle]

<p><cite>zaneluke wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I cant wait for this to go on live!</p><p>I have 80 crafters.</p></blockquote><p>and i thought i had an adiction with just 9 <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[SilkenKidden]

<p><cite>zaneluke wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Annara@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they have no experience in the zones then how did they get the shards to begin with? </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Called running grey zones. You can do up to 6 a day if you have a 50 -55 toon grey them out for you. </span></p><p> Anyway, if you can play 1 class well at 80 then you can play any class well at 80.  It's not a hard game to play.</p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></blockquote></blockquote><p>Hmmm.  I have a 55.  Been waiting for the quest feathers to light up over the heads of the NPCs outside the instance zone.  Thought my 55 was too low.  Now I guess I better get him in there before he gets too big.   Will 56 still grey the zone?</p>

[Gisallo]

<p><cite>Annara@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The argument could be made that if they're doing this, why have the no-trade flag at all and just switch everything to the "heirloom" tag so that you could complete quests, collections, etc. and hand the rewards off to alts?</p></blockquote><p>That would be another awesome change.</p></blockquote><p>I wouldn't say this is an awesome change but it does make sense for shards and attuneable lore.  The only real rational reason to not want shards heirloom flagged is if you are a toon with a level 80 crafter who wants to also make plate selling the shards you to people you craft for and sorry this is just ignorant.  My turn of thought would be this.  add a flag to shards which means the crafter can NOT use shards he has to make something for someone else OR make shards heirloom.  At least in the area of Heirloom the person getting the item ran the instance with SOMETHING.  In the other the person just needed plat and potentially never ran a TSO instance with any character?  Which would you rather have? </p>

[zaneluke]

<p><cite>Annara@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>zaneluke wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Annara@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they have no experience in the zones then how did they get the shards to begin with? </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Called running grey zones. You can do up to 6 a day if you have a 50 -55 toon grey them out for you. </span></p><p> Anyway, if you can play 1 class well at 80 then you can play any class well at 80.  It's not a hard game to play.</p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></blockquote></blockquote><p>Who cares if they are running grey zones?  If they're spending their entire day running grey zones then they're obviously not grouping with you, so this doesn't affect you at all.</p><p>As for the second part I have no idea what your little icons there are supposed to mean.  I'm guessing you are someone who has trouble grasping the game and the thought that people find it to be not very difficult is perplexing to you?</p></blockquote><p>You said "If they have no experience in the zones then how did they get the shards to begin with?" Which I pointed out a fact. It does not affect me at all. I dont care. Was just pointed out something that you seemed to be unaware of. I apologize if your post did not reflect your true knowledge.</p><p>You not understanding smile is funny actually. They are smiles indicated that I agree with you. Smiles 101 read it and learn.</p>

[CrazyMoogle]

<p><cite>Gisallo@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Annara@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The argument could be made that if they're doing this, why have the no-trade flag at all and just switch everything to the "heirloom" tag so that you could complete quests, collections, etc. and hand the rewards off to alts?</p></blockquote><p>That would be another awesome change.</p></blockquote><p>I wouldn't say this is an awesome change but it does make sense for shards and attuneable lore.  The only real rational reason to not want shards heirloom flagged is if you are a toon with a level 80 crafter who wants to also make plate selling the shards you to people you craft for and sorry this is just ignorant.  My turn of thought would be this.  add a flag to shards which means the crafter can NOT use shards he has to make something for someone else OR make shards heirloom.  <strong>At least in the area of Heirloom the person getting the item ran the instance with SOMETHING.  In the other the person just needed plat and potentially never ran a TSO instance with any character?  Which would you rather have? </strong></p></blockquote><p>I don't care, so there is no such thing for me as which I would rather have.  People buy legendary gear off the broker all the time.  Big deal.</p><p>I play the game to have fun.  I'm not going to waste my time sitting around worrying about how someone else gets their gear or if they bought their mythical.  It has no relevance to my game play.</p>

[CrazyMoogle]

<p><cite>zaneluke wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Annara@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>zaneluke wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Annara@Najena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they have no experience in the zones then how did they get the shards to begin with? </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Called running grey zones. You can do up to 6 a day if you have a 50 -55 toon grey them out for you. </span></p><p> Anyway, if you can play 1 class well at 80 then you can play any class well at 80.  It's not a hard game to play.</p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></blockquote></blockquote><p>Who cares if they are running grey zones?  If they're spending their entire day running grey zones then they're obviously not grouping with you, so this doesn't affect you at all.</p><p>As for the second part I have no idea what your little icons there are supposed to mean.  I'm guessing you are someone who has trouble grasping the game and the thought that people find it to be not very difficult is perplexing to you?</p></blockquote><p>You said "If they have no experience in the zones then how did they get the shards to begin with?" Which I pointed out a fact. It does not affect me at all. I dont care. Was just pointed out something that you seemed to be unaware of. I apologize if your post did not reflect your true knowledge.</p><p>You not understanding smile is funny actually. They are smiles indicated that I agree with you. Smiles 101 read it and learn.</p></blockquote><p>Unless they are using some hack to drop shards into their inventory they had to go into the zones to get them.  That's called "experience in the zone".</p><p>As for the rest I still have no idea what your point is in reference to the initial statement I made, but at this point it's clear I just don't care what you meant anymore.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To get those shards they would have had to run instances in the first place with their main.</p></blockquote><p>Just as an example, because you have a Troubador main who's followed groups through instances, that experience does not translate into a Guardian who's expected to tank and lead those groups. So, in this hypothetical example, you could have a Guardian fully geared up by virtue of an alt who has absolutely no idea how to actually tank those instances, but he "looks good" on paper (read: to anyone who inspects him).</p><p>Yes, there's no shortage of eBayed toons and whatnot, but it seems like this is a step towards making the problem worse. I don't know, like I said, I understand that I'm likely in the minority here and I may be overblowing things. But it just seems wrong to me that you can earn no-trade gear for one toon by playing another. And that's effectively what this change does. The argument could be made that if they're doing this, why have the no-trade flag at all and just switch everything to the "heirloom" tag so that you could complete quests, collections, etc. and hand the rewards off to alts? The change seems to undermine the whole reason that certain items are no-trade to begin with.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, I think you are overblowing things here just a tad. I have run the shard zones in excess of 250 times now on my main alone. I know the zones forwards, backwards, insides, outsides and maybe even upside down, you get the point I think.</p><p>After that many times I decided to test your theory the other day by taking my guardian through them as I primarily play a summoner. I had ZERO problems in tanking the zone. Tried with my coercer and then fury, no problems on any of them other than I wish I had my shard gear on them already.</p><p>Personally I love the idea of this new tag and hope they apply it to every piece of No-Trade crap in this game. The No-Trade and Lore tags destroy the economy of the game.</p><p>I find it amusing and ironic those tags exist primarily due to the moaning and complaining of the leet raiders that wanted to ensure not everyone could run around in gear that was difficult to attain, etc. But every night we see those same people selling loot rights to those drops or moving toons to the bazaar server to sell fabled geared and mythical weapon wielding toons for real cash. Since the ego problems obviously no longer exist let's just get the stupid tags removed and allow the economies to stablize.</p><p>Are people going to farm things, yep. And as long as some player continues to pay stupid amounts of plat for it they will continue. As more are available for sale though the prices will drop and farming them will become less profitable, hence less will occur. There is more and more plat dropping in the game and fewer and fewer things to spend it on which is driving up inflation.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To get those shards they would have had to run instances in the first place with their main.</p></blockquote><p>Just as an example, because you have a Troubador main who's followed groups through instances, that experience does not translate into a Guardian who's expected to tank and lead those groups. So, in this hypothetical example, you could have a Guardian fully geared up by virtue of an alt who has absolutely no idea how to actually tank those instances, but he "looks good" on paper (read: to anyone who inspects him).</p><p>Yes, there's no shortage of eBayed toons and whatnot, but it seems like this is a step towards making the problem worse. I don't know, like I said, I understand that I'm likely in the minority here and I may be overblowing things. But it just seems wrong to me that you can earn no-trade gear for one toon by playing another. And that's effectively what this change does. The argument could be made that if they're doing this, why have the no-trade flag at all and just switch everything to the "heirloom" tag so that you could complete quests, collections, etc. and hand the rewards off to alts? The change seems to undermine the whole reason that certain items are no-trade to begin with.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, I think you are overblowing things here just a tad. I have run the shard zones in excess of 250 times now on my main alone. I know the zones forwards, backwards, insides, outsides and maybe even upside down, you get the point I think.</p><p>After that many times I decided to test your theory the other day by taking my guardian through them as I primarily play a summoner. I had ZERO problems in tanking the zone. Tried with my coercer and then fury, no problems on any of them other than I wish I had my shard gear on them already.</p><p>Personally I love the idea of this new tag and hope they apply it to every piece of No-Trade crap in this game. The No-Trade and Lore tags destroy the economy of the game.</p><p>I find it amusing and ironic those tags exist primarily due to the moaning and complaining of the leet raiders that wanted to ensure not everyone could run around in gear that was difficult to attain, etc. But every night we see those same people selling loot rights to those drops or moving toons to the bazaar server to sell fabled geared and mythical weapon wielding toons for real cash. Since the ego problems obviously no longer exist let's just get the stupid tags removed and allow the economies to stablize.</p><p>Are people going to farm things, yep. And as long as some player continues to pay stupid amounts of plat for it they will continue. As more are available for sale though the prices will drop and farming them will become less profitable, hence less will occur. There is more and more plat dropping in the game and fewer and fewer things to spend it on which is driving up inflation.</p></blockquote><p>The addtion of the NO TRADE tag had NOTHING to do with Raiders, infact when they first added the tag the people complaining the most was the Raiders because now they didn't have something to sell to pay for thier repair bills.</p><p>The addtion of the NO TRADE tag was because the Developers wanted to add really supper cool gear to the game without giving everyone God mode on the content they primarally play. That way Raid content can be blananced against raid equiped players while group content can be balanced against groupers and solo against soloists. As far as the selling of loot rights goes last I heard the devs where working on a way to prevent this, but I don't know how far it has gotten.</p>

[Elwin]

<p>Awesome idea! I can't wait.. sick of trying to get more runs with my Necro when I have Dirge.</p><p>To the person that claims our alts won't know the zones.. you do know their pixels right and we're controlling them? tbh I've never read something so stupid.</p>

[Danelin]

<p>I am strongly in favor of this flag, and feel that it should be added to most if not all current no-trade items as well. I don't care if a CHARACTER is present at a kill or not. To be honest, I don't even find the selling of loot rights that offensive, although I have never purchased them myself.</p><p>I was present for TWO burdened signets being transmuted because the group didn't want to allow me to bring my necromancer to come loot it before I finally actually got the drop for my own character. I agree that this could cause some issues with pick up people rolling need for alts that aren't in group against characters who are, BUT I know how quickly chumps who do this sort of thing end up being on the list of folks nobody on a server will group with anyway.</p><p>Replace NO-TRADE with Heirloom entirely As far as I am concerned.</p>

[Syndic]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It looks like shards and tokens now have an heirloom tag which, presumably, allows them to be shared amongst alternate characters on the same account (they can be put in the shared bank), but cannot be traded with other players. What do people think about this?</p><p>I understand that probably a lot of players will probably like this, as they'll be able to "farm" for shards on their main, and feed them to alts to gear them up. But something about that just seems wrong to me. I see them as rewards that are to be earned by the player for that character, and if you have an alt, then run that alt through the instances. I guess the other thing that concerns me is you'll have people running around in full sets of T2 void gear who have little or no experience in the zones; it kind of ties back to issues like people buying mythical updates who don't have a terribly good grasp of how to play their character. The only objective information other players have about you is your gear, and the ability to essentially farm no-trade drops for alts further muddies those waters.</p><p>In other words, if I see a player in a full set of T2 void gear, today it's a pretty safe assumption that they have some experience running a variety of the TSO zones. That won't be true 100% of the time (e.g.: people using mentoring to farm shards, etc.) but as a rough generalization, it should hold true for most players. With this change, you can have people running around wearing the best legendary gear in the game and they've not spent a single second inside any TSO instance on that character. In fact, it'll be possible for someone to completely gear up an alt and have never, ever grouped on that toon. That just seems wrong to me, but I'm sure a lot of people will disagree.</p></blockquote><p>Or you could look at it from the other angle, like in my case.  My "main" character is a Warlock but it is alot easier for me to get a dungeon group on my Guardian.  Sure I do dungeons with both but one far outways the other, yet my preferrence for who I gear up first doesn't.  The ability to move shards etc around is a nice feature and one I's be glad to see.</p>

[Turb]

<p>I think no-trade should stay for most items.   While some loot right selling happens, it doesn't affect the economy because the chest still has to be looted in a set time, and the inconvenience of waiting around makes it less attractive to do.</p><p>I flly support heirloom status for shards.</p>

[Giliad]

<p>I was recently in a PUG with a tank that had just reached 80.  We did a DF run and wiped alot.  Sooo much so that I had to zone out and repair then zone back in.  It was fun.  We didn't kill a named and didn't get the DD done.  As stated by the tank, "I have crappy gear and can't survive the zone.  Catch 22 I need to run the zones to get shards to get better gear."  So he runs a zone to get the 1 shard in the chest. 9 times he does it so he can get enough for some armor.  Now he has the exp but no one wants to group with him cuz his rep is bad.  I can relate as my tank and other toons have been sidelined for my templar/ranger.  I however love running quests as this game is called Ever-QUEST for a reason.  Most like to quest.  I would like to gear my alts with the TSO gear, but they still have to lvl to 80 to be effective.  Meaning I have 80 levels to learn my toon.  As it is I am running TS instances over and over to get the damned t1 shardarmor recipe book so I can use my templar (raid equiped) shards to craft my ranger TSO armor.  My ranger gets sidelined for my templar.  SO I like the idea of the heirloom tag for this item. </p>

[Elorah]

<p>ok, I havent read all the points and posts in this thread, I would just like to say THANKYOU!  I have an 80 Templar and a 75 monk.  I was not rushing the monk to 80 cause I knew that I would want the void shard armor.  I know that no one is going to want my monk over the Templar...  so this is great news for me <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Troubor]

<p><cite>Kordran wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It looks like shards and tokens now have an heirloom tag which, presumably, allows them to be shared amongst alternate characters on the same account (they can be put in the shared bank), but cannot be traded with other players. What do people think about this?</p><p>I understand that probably a lot of players will probably like this, as they'll be able to "farm" for shards on their main, and feed them to alts to gear them up. But something about that just seems wrong to me. I see them as rewards that are to be earned by the player for that character, and if you have an alt, then run that alt through the instances. I guess the other thing that concerns me is you'll have people running around in full sets of T2 void gear who have little or no experience in the zones; it kind of ties back to issues like people buying mythical updates who don't have a terribly good grasp of how to play their character. The only objective information other players have about you is your gear, and the ability to essentially farm no-trade drops for alts further muddies those waters.</p><p>In other words, if I see a player in a full set of T2 void gear, today it's a pretty safe assumption that they have some experience running a variety of the TSO zones. That won't be true 100% of the time (e.g.: people using mentoring to farm shards, etc.) but as a rough generalization, it should hold true for most players. With this change, you can have people running around wearing the best legendary gear in the game and they've not spent a single second inside any TSO instance on that character. In fact, it'll be possible for someone to completely gear up an alt and have never, ever grouped on that toon. That just seems wrong to me, but I'm sure a lot of people will disagree.</p></blockquote><p>I've only read the OP's post, so my reply will reflect that.</p><p>I guess I don't have a major issue with it personally.  One thing to consider, at least one character the guy is playing IS good enough to do TSO instances, and groups enough to get shard armor and gear.  That and I've found that people that learn one class well, tend to learn their alts classes well if they plan on playing their alts to any signifigant degree.  This isn't always the case, I've seen people who play their main great but suck on their alt.  Even seen people play their alts great but actually suck on the guy they play the most.  But generally speaking, a good player will learn how to play all of his characters well if he or she is devoting signifigant time to playing the alts.  Some might be better then others (or maybe the guy is just as skilled with all of them) but regardless the guy won't suck if he/she is bothering to learn a class.</p><p>Otherwise, I understand your concern, but for the most part I don't think it will be a major issue.</p><p>As an aside, there's people who raid on a main, but don't really raid on their alts, or at least only raid on their alt when that class is needed and they need to play the alt last minute.  For them, their main might not have a lot of use for the void shards, TSO patterns don't cost a lot in void shards.  But their alts might.  Being able to trade the shards to an alt will mean they can use them, and not just have them sit in a bank vault collecting dust.</p>

[Faenril]

I'm not over enthusiastic about the change... I share the OP's concern, and also see that as another step toward making the game easier (flame all you like). On the other hand this is something I can leave with if it makes the masses happy... As devs are apparently not able to provide content where all classes are desirable, I guess there has to be a workaround.

[swedago]

<p>I am really happy with the change.  Sometimes I have to keep playing a class to help a guild group out, and thus my main misses out on some shards..  This will solve the problem.</p>

[Rijacki]

<p>One thing it will allow is a player running the daily double on more than one character with the intent of gearing up one character at a time. Some players, after this was announced, started running their alts through to hoarde shards for their main.  Why not? It actually does mean that someone with more time on their hands can run with more groups and still give benefit to their primary and so not 'lose out' on time.</p>

[Jaith]

<p><cite>Tinrae wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I like the idea quite a bit actually. Like Sigrdrifa said, many times I don't get a chance to play certain alts as much as I'd like with my guild, because some alts are more needed than others. And you as a player still have to earn those shards anyways.</p><p>Seems to me that EQ2 has a very reputation-oriented community, and once someone gets a bad name for being a poor player, gear won't make a bit of difference to change that.</p></blockquote><p>The reverse of this will help those of us in small guilds where a lot of us have multiple lv80's but not a lot of "players".  Frequently we are running guildies through and mentoring down in the scaleable zones but have to bring multiple characters to fill runs when we only want shards for our mains.  Believe it or not there are some casual players that are slowly working on progressing that can use a ton of shards <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  This is a great change.</p>

[maer]

<p>can we get the heirloom flag applied to the items crafted from the special mara recipes?  the ones made from moldering cadaver flesh or the rowan berries and etc.  i can never find someone to make them and i have 6 crafters that can make these items, but they all seem to be the wrong class for the items they can each make unfortunately.</p>

[KniteShayd]

<p>Sorry if I am repeating, but I will rarely read the whole thread if it's more than 4-5 pages...</p><p>I would like our quested E'ci Tokens, D.I.R.T.Y. money, and Concordium/Academy Notes to be hierloomed too, please.  I got a ton on one toon from the Icy Keep, but couldn't get help or a group on another toon who could have used them. </p><p>Same thing applies here.   We spend hours in a live event time sink, for mostly fluff items, and can't get em on some toons due to level, or inability to not be able solo/group some of the content.</p>

[Raveen]

<p>Shards would be nice <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As far as No-Trade and loot selling just make smart loot, well smart lol How many zones have you killed and had fable or legendary gear drop and go WOW thats a bomb scout item to bad no one can even equip it lol Oh no muter in group well trash vendor or dieity. You can see were some of the frustration is steming from.</p>

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>One question - if you have an alt or main that can craft shard armour, will the armour be heirloom after creation? I ask this so my Mystic can craft armour for the rest of my toons on the same account.</p><p>As it stands, its slightly miffing to have spent forever trying to get the books only to be able to create your own and every bugger else's armour but not for any of your alts.</p><p>This change will be good and bad. Good in that I can gear up my Ranger who is no longer wanted in groups to at least a level where his equipment stops being an issue.</p><p>As a side issue I have seen a couple of incidences of Mythical Prejudice, where non-Mythed players get left out of groups that a mythed player asks to join. Even if the non-mythed asked beforehand. Has happened to me a couple of times.</p>

[Solarax]

<p>i would like to see HQ items with  heirloom on them too.</p><p>oh and stuff like SoD and other very long quests that you dont want the torture of doing many times over</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Soulskar@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i would like to see HQ items with  heirloom on them too.</p><p>oh and stuff like SoD and other very long quests that you dont want the torture of doing many times over</p></blockquote><p>I would be against both of these, first in order to use the items, they would have to be atunable(if they where not No Trade), second, lorewise you are the only one to recover that item(there is only one, ignore that you clone with a similar weopon). Third, with the HQ items atleast they are mountable and as such would lose the Attunable tag(wich they should have) when you unmounted them.</p><p>Besides your more then likly going to have to do them at some point anyway for the AA so why would you want to have two of the weopon/item?</p>