Paladin Defensive + Offensive Scaling Issue

[Faelgalad]

<p>Skills on Offensive Stance 46 + 60 for Weapon Skills equal (42 Skill) Adept 3</p><p>On Defensive Stance, parry, defense (32), aggression (22) is equal on Level 58 and 72. Master 1.</p><p>http://messyshare.com/out.php/t215374_EQ2000011.jpg (http://messyshare.com/show.php/215374_EQ2000011.jpg.html)</p><p>D... why does the picture not show.</p>

[Boli32]

<p><img src="http://messyshare.com/out.php/t215374_EQ2000011.jpg" width="150" height="113" /></p><p>I think you need to change your screen resolution... you have bigger issues than scaling on stances <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Kordran]

<p>If you haven't already, the best thing to do is /bug and /feedback this kind of thing on the test server. Just posting it here doesn't guarantee that it'll be read by anyone that matters; submitting bugs and feedback on test does (at least in theory).</p>

[Faelgalad]

<p>Feedback was out on Testcopy before posting.</p><p>Thanks for the thrust in my intelligence <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Aeralik]

<p>The skill gains hit a point where I stopped upgrading them.  Between the stances and a variety of other buffs the skill bonuses got to a point where nobody wants to see them put on items.   They just can't keep scaling upwards forever and honestly this applies to more than just fighter stances but that stuff will be handled later on.  Also if you look I stopped the downward penalties as well so that using older stances for less penalties is no longer as beneficial.</p>

[madha]

<p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The skill gains hit a point where I stopped upgrading them.  Between the stances and a variety of other buffs the skill bonuses got to a point where nobody wants to see them put on items.   They just can't keep scaling upwards forever and honestly this applies to more than just fighter stances but that stuff will be handled later on.  Also if you look I stopped the downward penalties as well so that using older stances for less penalties is no longer as beneficial.</p></blockquote><p>Then why bother offering a upgrade if skills will not get better on higher lvl buffs, just remove the skills from the buff and add them as a class ability that caps out from lvl gain at a certain lvl?</p><p>The stance buffs have a insane amount junk on them now you can just rmove defense parry avoidance or what ever eles doesnt get upgraded on the buff and add a stand alone effect on the classes example ding you level up you gain +5 health + 5 power +.05 parry, then remove half the fighter classes so we can tell you guys how to balance them.</p>

[Mishkel]

<p><cite>madhatr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The skill gains hit a point where I stopped upgrading them.  Between the stances and a variety of other buffs the skill bonuses got to a point where nobody wants to see them put on items.   They just can't keep scaling upwards forever and honestly this applies to more than just fighter stances but that stuff will be handled later on.  Also if you look I stopped the downward penalties as well so that using older stances for less penalties is no longer as beneficial.</p></blockquote><p>Then why bother offering a upgrade if skills will not get better on higher lvl buffs, just remove the skills from the buff and add them as a class ability that caps out from lvl gain at a certain lvl?</p><p>The stance buffs have a insane amount junk on them now you can just rmove defense parry avoidance or what ever eles doesnt get upgraded on the buff and add a stand alone effect on the classes example ding you level up you gain +5 health + 5 power +.05 parry, then remove half the fighter classes so we can tell you guys how to balance them.</p></blockquote><p>What gets me is when I read that comment what keeps standing out to me is:</p><p>Between the stances and a variety of other buffs the skill bonuses got to a point where nobody wants to see them put on items.</p><p>So the way I read it is people who get to a certain point "in game" don't like certain items because of the bonuses we offer.</p><p>So rather than modify the items.. we will make a global change that affects everyone.  So now they will either have to change items outside of this sphere so that casual players can still do the content they do (or just ignore the cries that will be on the forums after they roll in).  Since these changes will affect everyone.</p><p>Reminds me of watching the back and forth with the Rangers .. who had a raid guild copy to test to test the changes.  Yet no matter the documentation they had.. they were not "seeing the entire picture".</p><p>These are the kinds of things that lead to those meetings where no one can figure out why the subscription numbers are dropping.. and to people outside of that room its blatantly obvious.</p><p>(note: I'm not saying I'm going to cancel over this its just more to do with a certain direction that keeps being taken with the same result... because none of us see the entire picture.)</p>

[Faelgalad]

<p>Argument is not in itself logical.</p><p>1. Tanks should be more responsible for their own Aggro.</p><p>2. Equipment Skills on complete TSO Raid set:</p><p>- Guardian: 6</p><p>- Shadowknight: 8</p><p>- Zerk: 6</p><p>- Monk: 6</p><p>Last two are not in Xanadu, but guess... not different <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Numbers immense low, so equipment argument not really backed up by skill boni on equipment.</p><p>3. To reach max. hit rate vs. Epic encountes, Tanks need skill buff from Warden +/ Dirge. Meaning we have not the "responsible for own" Argument, as DPS is Aggro and Hitpercentage is DPS.</p><p>= Argument not really good <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Antryg Mistrose]

<p><cite>Faelgalad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Argument is not in itself logical.</p><p>1. Tanks should be more responsible for their own Aggro.</p><p>2. Equipment Skills on complete TSO Raid set:</p><p>- Guardian: 6</p><p>- Shadowknight: 8</p><p>- Zerk: 6</p><p>- Monk: 6</p><p>Last two are not in Xanadu, but guess... not different <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Numbers immense low, so equipment argument not really backed up by skill boni on equipment.</p><p>3. To reach max. hit rate vs. Epic encountes, <strong><span style="font-size: small;">Tanks need skill buff from Warden +/ Dirge</span></strong>. Meaning we have not the "responsible for own" Argument, as DPS is Aggro and Hitpercentage is DPS.</p><p>= Argument not really good <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Guardians don't - keep in mind they can remove the C/S/P penatly from defensive stance with AA AND have a non-AA weapon skills buff.</p>

[Azurro]

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">You would think this would be simple to scale up since skill’s raise at 5 points per level.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>So at level 70 32 points of parry is 9.14% of your skill.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>That would mean to get the same benefit at 80 the numbers should be between 36-37.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>It’s still a 9% skill boost to be in defensive stance at level 70 vs level 80 it is just that the number of skill points required to do it are slightly higher.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span></span></span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"> </span></p><p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="font-size: small;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">The problem isn’t the buff it’s the gear.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Level 80 gear is filled with far more +def, +parry adjustments compared to lower tier gear so it’s lot easier to get to the cap.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Fixing the gear or the caps instead of the buffs seems the better way to go and you don’t end up penalizing those people who don’t have access to it as well as those that do.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span>Of course starting down that road is a slippery slope.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">  </span><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span></span></span></p>

[Seolta]

<p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The skill gains hit a point where I stopped upgrading them.  Between the stances and a variety of other buffs the skill bonuses got to a point where nobody wants to see them put on items.   They just can't keep scaling upwards forever and honestly this applies to more than just fighter stances but that stuff will be handled later on.  Also if you look I stopped the downward penalties as well so that using older stances for less penalties is no longer as beneficial.</p></blockquote><ul><li>"Nobody" means exactly who? For 99% of the fighter playerbase, +parry is still very highly sought after as an item bonus; but even if it's not...who cares? There's no lack of blue crap to throw on items to make them desirable, not to mention the new stats coming out of the changes.</li></ul><ul><li>Progression....kinda the basic concept of MMO's and it's being handily shunted off because skills "just can't keep scaling upwards forever" ????? <strong>[Removed for Content] with chocolate sauce on top</strong>?!</li></ul><ul><li>If you are still just chewing through your mouse cord looking for something to nerf, then you should at least consider taking these stats from 3rd party buffs rather than self buffs. Gimping our self buffs kinda flies in the face of the apparent new self reliability directive for fighters IMO and is also a quick and easy way to [Removed for Content] people off.</li></ul><p>I hope i'm just mis-interpreting this comment...it's exactly these kind of off-hand statements that get ppl riled up.</p><p>Needless to say this comment has me very worried about the future of the game and i'd seriously like to see some more info on the similar "stuff" that "will be handled later on"</p>