Enchanter/Coercer TSO AAs

[Arathy]

<p>This might be preemptive since the fighter balancing has not even finished but there are some real issues with a couple of the choices given to coercers.</p><p>We've been given 2 choices, one on the enchanter tree and one on the coercer tree, to enhance our amnesia ability.  The only problem is, thanks to heavily scripted events and developer whim it doesn't work on pretty much anything anymore.  Almost all named in TSO and a number of older named (which have been changed) are outright immune to this ability.</p><p>Why give us enhancements to something that does not work?  I hate to be rude and say it but this rings of laziness and lack of forethought.  I'm hoping that this was an oversight or placeholder ability until we get something useful because right now we're being pigeonholed.</p><p>There are very few viable choices in our TSO tree.  Atleast on the enchanter and coercer lines.  Even without raid loot, the bonuses to subjigation do very little.  Even without raid gear the enhancements to our DPS buff put most classes over the diminishing returns curve.  I've said my piece about the amnesia upgrades.</p><p>While we're at it.. The forced targetting nerfs have been too heavy handed as well.  Thought Snap barely works on anything over that heroic instances and in some cases doesn't even work there.</p><p>Please give coercers (and illys to a lesser extent) back some options on which AA's to take.</p>

[lilbluemo]

<p>i completely agree.. amnesia would only ever be used in a raid situation yet we cant use it on any tso mob. please give something at leaste useful there.</p><p>while you are at it can we do something about thoughtsnap. i seriously dont see why it is overpowered. but do something make it less powerful short duration longer reuse. make it useful somehow.</p>

[tralalak44]

<p>agreed</p><p>/bump</p>

[Illine]

<p>agree too, change it or make it usefull somehow.</p>

[Aule]

I'd even be interested in seeing the 3 aa amnesia upgrade changed to just make charm not break early. We ARE talking about end-line abilities for TSO tree after all. Taking a spell that was rarely used before and offering 8 aa's to spend on it (thereby removing other options that could have been upgrades) while simultaneously releasing an expansion that everything is immune to the spell, well, that's just offensive at worst and at best it just shows a lack of understanding and communication between aa development team and encounter development team.

[Melli]

<p>I'll add my voice to this chorus.  Thought snap is the worst I think because it is an end line ability, which means two out of four end lines are not useful at all to a raiding coercer and barely useful to a non-raiding coercer.</p><p>Giving us the option to spend AAs on a spell that doesn't work on the new content is rather silly.  I'd much rather see these changed to something useful.</p>

[Taitea]

<p>Ok... I'm not playing a coercer (illu, but not the matter atm), but I know that feeling.</p><p>Sometimes I think the people working on things like that sit there, with a list of our spells and combat arts and think to themselves: "Oh this sounds nice... lets add it to that and then lets do this..." without having PRACTICAL experiences in that class.</p><p>I realized that looking at the illu fabled set of TSO: spell crit chance (and something else... forgot what it was.) added to MANA SHROUD??? Since I have my mythical I never USED that spell. And hardly before. Now they make me use that thing to get some boni? (Just a little example of what I mean.)</p><p>They really should PLAY the classes for a while before fiddling around with anything...</p>

[Foolsfolly]

<p>What really gets me is the fact that heroic named get immunity to all control spells, but epic names just get a limited duration. Shouldn't that be reversed?</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>The thought snap nerfs on coercers are having a serious side-effect: they drastically reduce the viability of monks as tanks in TSO raids.  Mobs like Kultak and his adds and worse, the switchmaster, are in encounters where a monk could have a very high utility with the raid (the need to peel/tsunami when the MT has to run for the portal).  But since there was an effort to nerf coercers, we got hit in the crossfire and lose our greatest utility on a raid.  It also nerfs one particular tank by destroying our greatest taunt while leaving the other tanks untouched.  Please consider changing the thought snap ability in some slight way to make it not be overpowered, and then make these mobs no longer immune to aggro locking effects.  Its what's best for monks AND coercers.</p>

[xpraetorianx]

<p>Switchmaster can be done without swapping tanks.  Please refer to eq2zone.com shortly or my youtube page located at username Blackxram to see it in action.</p><p>On the other hand, I would like to see Amnesia possibly changed to a outright Deaggro of a single target by several hate positions.  Kind of an emergency deaggro.  I think this would still be in the realm of somewhat of an intention but reasoning behind Amnesia changed for example scripting and nearly every raid mob having a raid wiping failure effect I think SOE WANTS raids to wipe on these encounters, especially when theres lots of adds to talk about.</p><p>But I think changing the spell to start off as a single deaggro then with further AA's enhance the threat position reduction I think would be not only an enchancement to the upcoming hate changes but a nice little wildcard thrown in.</p><p>my .02 cents anyways.</p>

[pubear]

<p>no matter what, amnesia is almost as broken as cataclysmic mind used to be.  It still works in alot of rok, until you get SoH, where it is pretty much useless.</p><p>As for thought snap, I finally took aa's from it, and went with manaward.  While a pretty useless ability, it is still a heck of a lot more useful than thought snap.  That thought snap is more useless than a ward that has almost a 5 minute recast, is an amazing concept. I only took it because i'm finding increased mana regen to be useful now, and well it didn't cost much at that point.</p><p>We're supposed to be able to help the tank manage agro, and our aa's, and the upcoming changes heavily point to that.  These were two of our biggest agro managers.  If you dont want us to memwipe the mob, then change the ability.  At least get rid of those aa's, because from what I understand, phase doesn't work either.  So that's 8 aa's in the shadow lines that are never gonna be used, because they are meaningless.</p><p>So far I haven't taken anesthesia off my hot bar, but its on the top, one step from oblivion, and I dont expect it to survive long.  While I'm at it, I might as well take puppetmaster off, it only had a brief moment of usefulness when it could trigger hostage.  When that changed, I haven't cast it once.</p><p>Sorry for the complaining, but it's your own fault.  GU46 taught us that people do listen, and that things can change eventually.  I just wish I could think of what to do with it, but that's for the developers to decide i believe.  Only they will be able to accurately decide how much thought snap and amnesia will be useable if at all.  I predict the spell will be changed before they make these mobs subject to any kind of memwipe.</p><p>I do like the idea of a real deagro.  When I do pull agro, like on the xebnok fight, if i'm not careful, I would like to have a way to get him out of my face.  Nothing like hitting bewilder AND my racial dehate, and still getting obliterated.</p>

[Arathy]

<p>I think the last time I had a viable reason to use amnesia was back in KOS spliting Vyemm and Alzid.  That was a good use of the spell.  Since then, it's been good for occationally saving repair bills (provided people can listen to a call for stop dps) on raids and that's about it.</p><p>There's some nice ideas in here as to what it could be. Personally I like the idea of a targettable deagro for the raid.  That could be useful.</p><p>Thought Snap used to be my favorite ability.  Now it's just a waste of a hotbar slot.  Manaward, for me, is a waste too.</p><p>So on the EOF tree we've got Tash and Coersive Healing as actual good choices, and manaward as a decent choice, and finally Thought snap as a wasted choice unless you do nothing but old school heroic encounters.</p><p>Come on guys, surely you can think up something better than this.  Don't be so heavy handed on Thought Snap!  What did it ever do to you??? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Xethren]

<p>Take out the Amnesia TSO AA's and put in AA's that help Charm and/or Possess.</p><p>Really disappointed that there is absolutely nothing to help our 'class defining' abilities in the AA from latest expansion. And why are most of said AA's centered around our meager dps spells? Last time I checked we are supposed to be CC class, not a dps class.</p>

[Illine]

<p><cite>Xethren@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Take out the Amnesia TSO AA's and put in AA's that help Charm and/or Possess.</p><p>Really disappointed that there is absolutely nothing to help our 'class defining' abilities in the AA from latest expansion. And why are most of said AA's centered around our meager dps spells? Last time I checked we are supposed to be CC class, not a dps class.</p></blockquote><p>not anymore, we're a utility class but CC is more and more useless unless you solo solo mobs.</p><p>many heroic mobs are immune to CC .. so I use stun and stiffle only for the dps. mezz is not much used anymore too, tnaks prefer to take the mob ... So the last time I did really mezzed was in Nexona ... and Elkron. Other than that, my mezz is almost useless, I even sometimes forgt to cast it when it could be needed, because I'm not used to it anymore.</p><p>With the changes to our class, SOE made us a dps class.</p>

[Wolphin]

<p><cite>Illine@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xethren@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Take out the Amnesia TSO AA's and put in AA's that help Charm and/or Possess.</p><p>Really disappointed that there is absolutely nothing to help our 'class defining' abilities in the AA from latest expansion. And why are most of said AA's centered around our meager dps spells? Last time I checked we are supposed to be CC class, not a dps class.</p></blockquote><p>not anymore, we're a utility class but CC is more and more useless unless you solo solo mobs.</p><p>many heroic mobs are immune to CC .. so I use stun and stiffle only for the dps. mezz is not much used anymore too, tnaks prefer to take the mob ... So the last time I did really mezzed was in Nexona ... and Elkron. Other than that, my mezz is almost useless, I even sometimes forgt to cast it when it could be needed, because I'm not used to it anymore.</p><p>With the changes to our class, SOE made us a dps class.</p></blockquote><p>Please don't make it sound like no enchanters use mez anymore... if you are running with only raid geared peeps, then maybe your group can blow through adds or large groups, but if you run with pugs or folks in your guild that isnt a raid guild, that isn't the case where adds need to be mezzed and often one or two in a group to get past them.</p>

[Xethren]

<p>What Wolph said. I dunno about you Illine, but every group I run TSO or RoK dungeons with bring me along because I can mez, which I do. Most of the time in a TSO dungeon all it takes is one uncontrolled add to equal wipe.</p>