What is Threat?

[sensie]

<p>Ok, I thought I would start a thread to discuss what threat is.  I know as it stands now threat/hate on the live servers</p><p>is DPS, plus hate transfers, plus taunts, all at a ratio of 1 to 1 to 1.  Now with the changes HATE = threat (taunts plus added taunts to CA's) DPS, not sure of what the ratio is.  I was having a hard wrapping my mind around the changes and then it hit me.  Hate/threat has not changed, but our taunts were increased and detaunts were added to CA's and offensive stance.  So if the ratio is still the same 1 dps to 1 threat, then we will never hold aggro off most dps classes.  I am interested to look at if the DPS in offensive stance makes up for the detaunts and how much threat we lose in def stance because of a drop in DPS, that is if the ratio is still the same.</p><p>I thought the threat system was going to change it just seems we have more bells and whistles that don't ring or tweet.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Tandy]

<p><cite>sensie wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok, I thought I would start a thread to discuss what threat is.  I know as it stands now threat/hate on the live servers</p><p>is DPS, plus hate transfers, plus taunts, all at a ratio of 1 to 1 to 1.  Now with the changes HATE = threat (taunts plus added taunts to CA's) DPS, not sure of what the ratio is.  I was having a hard wrapping my mind around the changes and then it hit me.  Hate/threat has not changed, but our taunts were increased and detaunts were added to CA's and offensive stance.  So if the ratio is still the same 1 dps to 1 threat, then we will never hold aggro off most dps classes.  I am interested to look at if the DPS in offensive stance makes up for the detaunts and how much threat we lose in def stance because of a drop in DPS, that is if the ratio is still the same.</p><p>I thought the threat system was going to change it just seems we have more bells and whistles that don't ring or tweet.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>If the threat system stayed exactly as it is right now 1 to 1 ratio for dmg to threat... its a boost as is on test server.</p><p>Defensive stance your DPS is down maybe 30%...personally it didnt feel that much to me, but some are saying it so will go with that number.</p><p>For my SK my one taunt goes from 2k to close to 7k threat.  another goes from around 1.5k to 5kish on test. Between those boosts and taunts being added to at least 2 CA's for every tank...the taunt amount is at least tripled on some things. More than makes up for the loss of DPS in defensive I think.</p><p>So for simplicty lets say your doing 1k DPS right now on live and use those 2 taunts that is around 5.5k threat. On test with a 30% loss to 1k dps its now 700 DPS. You do that and use the new taunts its now 13k threat. To me, I cant see a rational person saying bad things about that threat generation.</p><p>There are probably many changes 'behind the scenes' to threat as well so the ratio probably doesnt stay the same anyway, but from the numbers it still looks alright if it did.</p>

[gchouin]

<p>Well lets look at a more realistic number.  If a tank is parsing 5k dps in in offensive and lose 30% of that you get 1500 threat lost per second.  The per second part is important.  In a minute they are are losing 90,000 threat.</p><p>It is difficult to test raiding on test.  But as it is now Tanks can not hold agro any where near as they can on live. Taunts increases are not coming close to the nerfs of dirge hate gain, troub hate loss, assassin/swashy dumpin and fighters losing dpsin defensive stance.  And the the test amends is about 1/10th as good as the live amends.</p><p>I mean just to get over tanking in defensive you would have to cast 18 of your 5kish taunts in that minute.  Which is fine but what would u have to do to get over all the other nerfs? Cast 100 taunts that are around 10kish? In a minute?</p><p>Unless they greatly increase the ratio in which taunts generate threat compared to DPS the game is going to be broken when test changes hit.</p>

[Tandy]

<p><cite>gchouin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well lets look at a more realistic number.  If a tank is parsing 5k dps in in offensive and lose 30% of that you get 1500 threat lost per second.  The per second part is important.  In a minute they are are losing 90,000 threat.</p><p>It is difficult to test raiding on test.  But as it is now Tanks can not hold agro any where near as they can on live. Taunts increases are not coming close to the nerfs of dirge hate gain, troub hate loss, assassin/swashy dumpin and fighters losing dpsin defensive stance.  And the the test amends is about 1/10th as good as the live amends.</p><p>I mean just to get over tanking in defensive you would have to cast 18 of your 5kish taunts in that minute.  Which is fine but what would u have to do to get over all the other nerfs? Cast 100 taunts that are around 10kish? In a minute?</p><p>Unless they greatly increase the ratio in which taunts generate threat compared to DPS the game is going to be broken when test changes hit.</p></blockquote><p>Other classes will have to manage their hate instead of dumping it. Taunts are scaled up quite high and taunts were added to other things. For the sk, in addition to the single and group taunt, the shield bash taunt, the kick taunt, the blue AoE taunt, grave sacrament blue AoE taunt AND the Hateful respite AoE taunt they also proc 2k threat on swings every so often a minute and get 1k threat everytime they are hit....if that isnt generating enough threat for situations you really need it then you got some serious, and I do mean SERIOUS problems.</p><p>And sorry but I call BS to people saying defensive tanking is such a huge hit on DPS.  I honestly didnt see it being that bad on my SK...it is lower but not so much lower that the whole sky is falling down around me.</p>