Warlock Boon o.S. vs. Wizard Converge

[Burnout]

<p><strong>Wizard Converge:</strong></p><p>- 8% lowered hategain</p><p>- deaggro proc single target</p><p><strong>Warlock Boon of Solitude:</strong></p><p>- deaggro proc single target</p><p>both are selfbuff only...  <span style="text-decoration: underline;">warlock version lacks base dehate, and is not target encounter</span></p>

[Noaani]

<p>Presumably its a bug.</p><p>Its been /bugged and/or /feedback'd several times on test, and there is already a thread about it here.</p>

[Burnout]

<p>warlock spell was changed this patch from raid to selfbuff only, descriptions got changed - and still wizard version wins. and no - there is no thread on the compareing issue AFTER the last patch...</p>

[Noaani]

<p>I was unaware we were opening up a new thread for each topic after each update...</p>

[Detor]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Presumably its a bug.</p><p>Its been /bugged and/or /feedback'd several times on test, and there is already a thread about it here.</p></blockquote><p>There is another thread where it's been mentioned, there is no other thread FOR it.  The only other thread has the subject, and topic of a wizard spell, the original poster makes no mention of warlock anything.  It isn't until later the topic evolved to mentioning warlocks, and it isn't until about page 5 or 6 that it was even discovered that the reason wizards weren't raising you know what was because their spell was significantly better. (everyone assumed up until that late in the thread that since the spells were almost the same before change that they would be afterwords too)</p><p>Just because something is mentioned on page 5/6 doesn't mean that thread is about that topic since the original poster made no statements similar to the original poster of this thread.  <strong>The intended discussion of the two topics is vastly different.</strong></p><p>The fact that a dev has already looked at it (unless he randomly pushed buttons to change it from targetable to self only) indicates they DO intend to nerf warlocks in a major way.  There can be no argument that going from the ability to transfer 4% (9% with AAs) AND regenerate power for the warlock and tank to a spell that only has a detaunt proc that is way weaker than 4/9% transfer hate, single target (not vs target encounter), and you have to depend on luck for it to go off AND then to top it off its missing the power proc - no way you can argue that isn't a major nerf.</p>

[Noaani]

<p>/shrug.</p><p>The thread is titled with the wizard spell, but the last 3/4 of it is about the warlock version.</p>

[Detor]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Presumably its a bug.</p><p>Its been /bugged and/or /feedback'd several times on test, and there is already a thread about it here.</p></blockquote><p>Well, at this point, if there is a bug here it's that they originally meant to go with -8% hate mods for both, then forgot to remove it off the wizard version.  Would you be upset too if in a future update suddenly *poof* that hate mod was gone and you were in the same situation as warlocks?  Or would you continue this "It's ok, I /bugged it, everything's fine...."  Probably won't happen - really seems like this was intended to be a major reduction in warlock's ability to shed hate and obviously they didn't want to nerf wizards to the same large degree.</p>

[Detor]

<p><cite>Burnout wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>Warlock Boon of Solitude:</strong></p><p>- deaggro proc</p></blockquote><p>Guess what else - even when that deaggro proc goes off on an AoE spell your threat is only reduced to your CURRENT target.  It doesn't even say "Decreases threat to target encounter", so I went to test and got some multimob encounters.  Cast AoE spells to kill them and watched for threat proc to go off - when it finally went off (took a few tries, mobs would die before it would proc) it only reduced threat to the one single target even though it had procced off an AoE.</p>

[Hellswrath]

<p><cite>Detor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Burnout wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>Warlock Boon of Solitude:</strong></p><p>- deaggro proc</p></blockquote><p>Guess what else - even when that deaggro proc goes off on an AoE spell your threat is only reduced to your CURRENT target.  It doesn't even say "Decreases threat to target encounter", so I went to test and got some multimob encounters.  Cast AoE spells to kill them and watched for threat proc to go off - when it finally went off (took a few tries, mobs would die before it would proc) it only reduced threat to the one single target even though it had procced off an AoE.</p></blockquote><p>Well, that (combined with the lack of the wizzy dehate) makes this change a complete nerf.  This should have been fixed with the update if they intended a fix, or I would think they would have acknowledged such a huge discrepancy between the two versions and that a fix was on the way.</p>

[maddawg138]

<p>As i suggested in a /feedback myself is to change the spell to decrease threat to target encounter to make up for the 8% dehate wizzies get. That IMO would balance the spells out a little more. I dont want the 8% dehate cause wizards get that and i'm not a wizard, im a warlock we are 2 different classes. Also keep in mind our epic, both fabled and mythical, have a proc that decreases our threat position of target encounter by 1 every time it procs.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Xede@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>As i suggested in a /feedback myself is to change the spell to decrease threat to target encounter to make up for the 8% dehate wizzies get</blockquote><p>Thats actually not a bad idea. Its not loke a warlock has issues with hate on single target mobs...</p><p>Wondering if it would be an idea to ask for it to trigger on all mobs in an area of effect that have the warlock on the hate list though... for pulling multiple trash mobs.</p>

[Detor]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wondering if it would be an idea to ask for it to trigger on all mobs in an area of effect that have the warlock on the hate list though... for pulling multiple trash mobs.</p></blockquote><p>That isn't a bad idea.  I think warlocks would like that, especially in the easier zones where the tank might pull 2-3 nonassociated encounters at the same time.  I don't know if they ever got the ability to not proc on things that aren't in combat working though.  I remember having some item that was only suppose to proc on mobs that were already in combat, and I ended up unequiping it because it just kept aggro mobs through walls on me.  Assuming they did fix that though it'd be good to have an ability like what you mentioned.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Detor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I don't know if they ever got the ability to not proc on things that aren't in combat working though.</blockquote><p>It took a while to get working, but its not aggroing mobs any more.</p>

[Lenefir]

<p><cite>Xede@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As i suggested in a /feedback myself is to change the spell to decrease threat to target encounter to make up for the 8% dehate wizzies get. That IMO would balance the spells out a little more. I dont want the 8% dehate cause wizards get that and i'm not a wizard, im a warlock we are 2 different classes. Also keep in mind our epic, both fabled and mythical, have a proc that decreases our threat position of target encounter by 1 every time it procs.</p></blockquote><p>I think I might be able to live with getting encounter or AOE deaggro when it procs, instead of how it looks to be currently.  Should make it more balanced against the wizards' constant 8% dehate + single target proc.</p><p>Anyway, just wanted to mention that not every warlock is level 80 <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />.  You have to level up there first (unless you level up a wizard then betray), and then actually do the quest to get your epic weapon.  So for those 79/80 other levels it would be quite a big nerf to warlocks in my opinion if they only get a single target proc dehate, while wizards not only get the same proc dehate, but also a constant percentage dehate too.</p>

[Hellswrath]

<p>If they make this target encounter (or far better, AoE based) then it will make it viable for us as a spell.  This proc is nearly useless to us as a single target effect.</p><p>However, it would still be unbalanced vs the wizzy version which has that passive hate drop and only a slightly less powerful detaunt proc.  Also, the better you are at playing a lock and pumping out dps, the worse our spell becomes, since it is a fixed value and the wizard version is a % dehate.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Hellswrath@Blackburrow wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>However, it would still be unbalanced vs the wizzy version which has that passive hate drop and only a slightly less powerful detaunt proc.  Also, the better you are at playing a lock and pumping out dps, the worse our spell becomes, since it is a fixed value and the wizard version is a % dehate.</blockquote><p>This part is ture, the other is not. The wizard version would have a chance to trigger once per spell cast on each mob in an AE fight. It either triggers on a mob or it doesn't, and each mob is checked individually.</p><p>If the warlock version was made to have a group or an AE proc, each mob a specific spell hits has a check, and if successful the dehate then triggers on all mobs, as opposed to one mob for a wizard. This means that it is almost guarenteed to hit with every spell cast with more than 4 targets, and very rare to not trigger on 2 targets (the proc has a 45% chance to trigger on each target of a spell that takes 4 seconds to cast).</p><p>Even as a wizard, if this were made to affect all targets in AE, I would be wishing I had this version as it is AE aggro that is where sorcerers die the majority of the time.</p>

[Fendaria]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This part is ture, the other is not. The wizard version would have a chance to trigger once per spell cast on each mob in an AE fight. It either triggers on a mob or it doesn't, and each mob is checked individually.</p><p>If the warlock version was made to have a group or an AE proc, each mob a specific spell hits has a check, and if successful the dehate then triggers on all mobs, as opposed to one mob for a wizard. This means that it is almost guarenteed to hit with every spell cast with more than 4 targets, and very rare to not trigger on 2 targets (the proc has a 45% chance to trigger on each target of a spell that takes 4 seconds to cast).</p><p>Even as a wizard, if this were made to affect all targets in AE, I would be wishing I had this version as it is AE aggro that is where sorcerers die the majority of the time.</p></blockquote><p>I believe, that Deter said eariler he tested earlier, the Warlock buff is only proccing against your current target even if an AE spell is cast.  It is not a check against each mob your AE just hit.  I would assume the Wizard version is the same on the proc side.</p><p>The 8% less hate I would assume to be all targets hit by the spell, not just your current target.</p><p>Fendaria</p>

[Detor]

<p><cite>Fendaria wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This part is ture, the other is not. The wizard version would have a chance to trigger once per spell cast on each mob in an AE fight. It either triggers on a mob or it doesn't, and each mob is checked individually.</p><p>If the warlock version was made to have a group or an AE proc, each mob a specific spell hits has a check, and if successful the dehate then triggers on all mobs, as opposed to one mob for a wizard. This means that it is almost guarenteed to hit with every spell cast with more than 4 targets, and very rare to not trigger on 2 targets (the proc has a 45% chance to trigger on each target of a spell that takes 4 seconds to cast).</p><p>Even as a wizard, if this were made to affect all targets in AE, I would be wishing I had this version as it is AE aggro that is where sorcerers die the majority of the time.</p></blockquote><p>I believe, that Deter said eariler he tested earlier, the Warlock buff is only proccing against your current target even if an AE spell is cast.  It is not a check against each mob your AE just hit.  I would assume the Wizard version is the same on the proc side.</p><p>The 8% less hate I would assume to be all targets hit by the spell, not just your current target.</p><p>Fendaria</p></blockquote><p>8% is a reduction at the start, for every spell of every type, against every mob you hit.  It is superior - no doubt, to the random proc.  (of course the wizard version has both so for THEM it isn't anywhere near the nerf that warlocks are taking.) </p><p>Here's the way I did the testing:</p><p>I went to Moors.  Did an encounter root.  Then used radiation (was trying to do as many AoE spell casts as I could, rather than just out and out kill the mob, which is why I didn't just use Armageddon).  When I got a spell proc it was for only one mob in the encounter, I killed about 2-3 of the canopy drifter encounters before it went off even that once.  Then I went over to the spider area.  I went through several encounters of those and each time it procced off only one of the mobs when it would proc.  I made my post at that point. </p><p>Later I went back on, and got a group.  It was me, and 2 paladins (hey, you got to go with what you can find).  We went to Befallen.  The main paladin could hold aggro off me, as long as he selected a different mob in the encounter for every hit and taunt that he did.  If he just used encounter taunt and AoEs he would not have held aggro considering how close it was with him alternating targets constantly.  There however on occasion I did see it proc on 2 different mobs in the encounter.  Thing is despite the proc rate looking high I could go awhile without it proccing due to the random nature of procs, and THEN on top of that the random odds of it hitting the right mob for you - it's entirely possible to end up with 1 mob that has been detaunted numerous times, and then the rest of the encounter stuck on you like glue.</p>

[Fendaria]

<p><cite>Detor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span style="font-size: 12px;"><span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">Here's the way I did the testing:</span></span></span></blockquote><p>Is there a guild hall on test you can join and pull test dummy's out of?  It would make testing something like this very easy.  Gather up 8 or 12 targets and fire off a PBAOE on them and count the procs.</p><p>Fendaria</p>

[Noaani]

<p>I pulled 3 groups of stargazers in Maj'Dul just now, 9 mobs total. I cast Conflageration (level 14 blue AE) several times to see what procs I would get of the deaggro. Every cast had at least 1 trigger of the deaggro, the majority of casts had 2 or 3, and I had one particular cast trigger the detaunt 5 times on 8 mobs (the max target number of the spell).</p><p>I suggest doing a bit more testing to be sure, and if the warlock deaggro is still not triggering multiple times on AE spells, /bug it.</p>

[Laretha]

<p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;">Its simple Sony gives!  test update note   "Area of effect spells and combat arts will no longer spread hate to the encounter members when damage is applied" </span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;">Then they take away with the nerf to boon.  They promote the change or loss of hate in the test notes but not the changes to boon. So it looks like they are doing something for us but when you look closer you see its no change at all.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;">Lare</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;"> </span></p>

[Noaani]

<p>Thats test update notes your looking at.</p><p>Test update notes have never been complete.</p>

[Detor]

<p><cite>Laretha wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;">Its simple Sony gives!  test update note   "Area of effect spells and combat arts will no longer spread hate to the encounter members when damage is applied" </span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;">Then they take away with the nerf to boon.  They promote the change or loss of hate in the test notes but not the changes to boon. So it looks like they are doing something for us but when you look closer you see its no change at all.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Times New Roman;">Lare</span></p></blockquote><p>Actually before you could raise it to doing a 9% transfer of hate with AAs, now with the same effort the best you can do with the same number of AAs is a proc that detaunts randomly.  The spread of encounter hate wasn't applied post any hate transfer - that spread of hate to the entire group was also reduced by 9% for the warlock, and the tank gained 9% of that hate to the target encounter.  It's part of the reason a paladin amending a warlock could hold aggro so well, and now they struggle to barely do it.  It's not a give, and take an equal amount.  It's a "make ALL classes only take hate for the damage they do, then lower the hate reduction ability of boon, then just for fun remove the power part too."</p>

[Hellswrath]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hellswrath@Blackburrow wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>However, it would still be unbalanced vs the wizzy version which has that passive hate drop and only a slightly less powerful detaunt proc.  Also, the better you are at playing a lock and pumping out dps, the worse our spell becomes, since it is a fixed value and the wizard version is a % dehate.</blockquote><p>This part is ture, the other is not. The wizard version would have a chance to trigger once per spell cast on each mob in an AE fight. It either triggers on a mob or it doesn't, and each mob is checked individually.</p><p>If the warlock version was made to have a group or an AE proc, each mob a specific spell hits has a check, and if successful the dehate then triggers on all mobs, as opposed to one mob for a wizard. This means that it is almost guarenteed to hit with every spell cast with more than 4 targets, and very rare to not trigger on 2 targets (the proc has a 45% chance to trigger on each target of a spell that takes 4 seconds to cast).</p><p>Even as a wizard, if this were made to affect all targets in AE, I would be wishing I had this version as it is AE aggro that is where sorcerers die the majority of the time.</p></blockquote><p>First, as you already said in a more recent post, the wizzy version seems to be working for AE spells.  I can't speak for the lock version as I haven't had time to play on live, much less on test.  However, that invalidates the quoted post.  I do understand your point of view on the AE vs single target proc, though.  Let's just look at the numbers briefly.</p><p>The wizzy version has a proc that is only slightly less powerful than the lock version.  The lock version averages 250 hate per second deaggro.  The wizzy version averages 231 hate per second deaggro.  Of course, this is per target as it stands now (assuming they either fix the warlock version, or testing shows it to affect mobs in AE).  THere is no point in looking at chance to trigger.  The proc triggers an average of 6 times per minute.  Despite the fact that it may not trigger all 6 times (thus putting the proc at an immediate disadvantage to the passive dehate), let's assume it does.</p><p>Now, let's assume that we are dealing with a mediocre lock/wizzy that only puts out around 3500 dps.  The better the player/toon, the less useful the proc will be vs. the passive dehate, as I'm sure everyone can understand (one being percentage based and the other being a flat amount). </p><p>I know you aren't arguing for it to stay as it is, so I'll skip over the analysis of how the spell stands now, being completely unbalanced between the wizzy and lock versions.  Instead, we'll pretend for the sake of argument, that the wizzy spell only affect one target and the lock version is AE.</p><p>For one target, the lock gets ~7.1% dehate and the wizzy gets ~15.7%.  For two targets, the lock's goes up to 14.2% and the wizzy gets 15.7 still.  It isn't until 3 targets that the lock version surpasses the wizzy version.  Of course, this is again assuming that the wizzy and lock are only doing 3500 dps on a 3+ target fight, which is very unlikely for any decent players.  Knock the damage up into the 6K dps range, where it easily belongs, and you need to have four or more targets for the lock version to come out on top.</p><p>Again, this is assuming that the proc will always trigger and will never be resisted (which is rather unlikely).  It also assumes that they strip the AE capability off the wizzy version.  Regardless, it isn't what I would call balanced.</p><p>Personally, I would just like lock version to be AE based and have a 4% dehate if they intend to nerf the wizzy one so that it is non-AE.  If they intend to leave the wizard version alone, and it IS currently AE based (as your testing has shown), then just mirror ours to the wizzy version.  But just throwing a target encounter flag on the lock version isn't going to cut it.</p>

[Burnout]

<p>still no answer from devside if this is buged, intended - and/or subject of future changes...</p><p>- warlock boon of solitude needs a base dehate & the proc should be encounter-wide. values of both can be adjusted to fit the encounter ascpect & keep it in line with wizard version</p>

[Rolande']

<p> They have added the 8% reduction to hate to our boon of solitude.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=441880�" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...80�</a></p><p> I am wondering what the Shadow AA is now doing to this line, I sadly dont have the hard drive space to install test to see for myself</p>

[Burnout]

<p>aa increase the procchance & the amount</p><p><strong>any chance to get the proc encounter based? </strong></p>

[Detor]

<p><cite>Burnout wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>aa increase the procchance & the amount</p><p><strong>any chance to get the proc encounter based? </strong></p></blockquote><p>We got the -8% hate mod, so personally I'm not going to be lobbying for the proc to change from single to encounter anymore.  I prefer a fixed hate mod over random luck anyday and we were just suggesting changing it from single to encounter because without the -8% hate mod we would have uneven hate loss due to the way the proc worked.  Now we have an even hate loss for each spell, and the proc is more of a "bonus" rather than the main/only effect of the spell.</p>

[Piropiro]

<p>8% less base hate or a 2-3k encounter deaggro proc at 7.7x a min. i think i'll take an encounter deaggro proc especially considering 90% of the time i'll be caped at dehate anyways. having the boon and converge lines being identical is ignorant. as xede said, im not a wizard. i dont want them to design my stuff as if i was. our whole focus is supposed to be grp encounters. our deaggro is an encounter deaggro, wizards is a single deaggro. why on earth would our proc be a single target proc. that doesn't do anything. we dont have aggro issues on the single targets anyways, its the grp encounters. and the proc rate on the deaggro would do far more good for us if it were encounter based then a measly 8% dehate which equates to nothing when your doing 20-40k parses on encounters. 8% less hate gain when your doing 5x more dps then ur tank? give me a break. boon should be tailored to warlocks as converge is for wizards. they do massive spell dmg single target dps so less base hate gain is the perfect fix for them. warlocks do more dots cast more/faster spells procing more. the deaggro proc suits us better then a hate gain modifier, as our aggro bane isn't singles its grp encounters. what i would LOVE to see soe do is to put that change into test let us test it out, let them test it out and let us do feedback based on that. instead of them saying here u get the same stuff as wizards bc we're too lazy to make ur classes different and unique. that or we're just too incompetant, take ur pick.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Pyrotesss@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>8% less base hate or a 2-3k encounter deaggro proc at 7.7x a min. i think i'll take an encounter deaggro proc especially considering 90% of the time i'll be caped at dehate anyways.</blockquote><p>Out of interest, how do you expect to be at the dehate cap once this goes live?</p>

[Piropiro]

<p>trixy cane. even without that though, -8 dehate vs that proc if it were encounter based should be a no brainer. on a large encounter that proc would be going off every other ae spell just about and its pure deaggro. not deaggro that will proc more dmg then ur deaggroing. if you combine that with say the coercer link ur gonna have plenty of dehate from link plus that proc you'd be better off. and if nothing else, its somewhat disgusting that soe lacks any imagination or individuality when it comes to this. just giving both sorc classes the same thing is such a lazy way to go about it on top of stupid. blip is single target, nullify is ae based. there is a reason for that... our proc should be encounter based not single based. remove the less hate gain, lesson it whatever. i could care less if it was on there at all i want my deaggro proc to be useful. if its ingle target they might as well remove the bloody thing. i can't remember when i pulled aggro on single target named/trash as a warlock other then when the tanks were sucking hardcore. its bad enough that both classes loose the power aspect of it but now they're totaly butchering it into an almost useless buff.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Pyrotesss@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>trixy cane.</blockquote><p>Hrmm, honestly supprised that hasn't been adjusted yet. Even so, it won't have you at the dehate cap all the time, only when that specific effect is up.</p><p>If thats enough for you, then cool.</p>

[Piropiro]

<p>as i said there are only aggro issues for encounter mobs and its up non stop on those. and that set aside coercive link dehateis good enough. the 2-3k deaggro encounter proc would be more beneficial then -8 hate gain when u look at the proc rate. - to hate has always been meh for warlocks. moderate hardly ever did anything for hate control, why would anybody get happy bout -8.</p>

[Hellswrath]

<p>I agree that the proc should be encounter based.  A single target proc will be marginally effective (at best) for locks.</p><p>However, the 8% dehate is nothing to sneeze at, since it is about as good as what we have on live right now.  I think that reducing the proc value and making it target encounter would be the last needed step to get this where it needs to be for locks.</p><p>Even in my comparison post earlier in this thread, I first assumed that the lock version would be changed to encounter based while the wizzy version would be verified to be single target only.</p><p>All this being said, I haven't seen or tested the new version of this spell, yet.  So I will reserve any real judgement, as it could be perfectly fine as it is now.</p>

[Elephanton]

<p>Dehate must be encounter-based for warlocks</p>

[Piropiro]

<p>yes you would assume that given its an ae dps class and EVERY deaggro based thing that warlocks have ever been given was encounter that this would be too <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> but once again assuming just makes an @$$ outta u and me! well maybe moreso me but still <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> its not as though the dehate on our myth is encounter based, all our deaggros are encounter based, and our "role" is encounter dps. im sure that the deaggro that hits that one mob in the grp of 6 will do a lot for our hate!</p><p>edit* so yeah on the wiz part of it. their deaggro should totaly be a good 700-1k more then ours with theirs being single and ours being encounter imo. and drop our dehate to 4 or all together idc, but yeah. encounter deaggro for us single for htem and their single should be 1/4-1/3 more.</p>

[Hellswrath]

<p>I'd rather have the passive dehate remain as it becomes more useful as you increase your dps.  However, the problem with having an underpowered proc (due to the single target nature) is that all of our AAs that effect this spell are only set to change the proc portion.  If this isn't a encounter proc, then both AA options to improve the spell are essentially useless. </p><p>Who wants to spend valuable AA on a single target proc as a warlock?  The answer is no one for most (if not all) locks.</p><p>So our options are to nerf the value of the proc and make it encounter based, nerf the passive dehate and throw an encounter based flag on the proc, or fix the AA options on this spell to something useful (like adding % to the passive dehate at the same value we were getting for the hate transfer which would equate to 2%/point).</p><p>Of course, I'd be fine with just throwing a encounter based flag on the proc as it is now <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> , but that would depend on what is needed to keep AE aggro management among the tank classes balanced.</p>

[Piropiro]

<p>regardless of how u look at it. if the proc isn't encounter based its useless, period.</p>

[Noaani]

<p><cite>Pyrotesss@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>regardless of how u look at it. if the proc isn't encounter based its useless, period.</blockquote><p>An encounter based proc will only trigger on your target and its encounter for multi encounter pulls (Palace trash), the proc in its current form can trigger on any mob you hit, reguardless of if you have them or a member of that encounter targeted.</p><p>They each have their advantages and disadvantages, but to say the proc as it is on test is useless seems overly dramatic to me.</p>

[Piropiro]

<p>........... seriously?</p><p>it'll proc on any single target encounter...and on the grp encounters it'll actually hit them all instead of 1 or 2 out of the 5 which is as good as wait...useless. we dont have single target aggro issues. if the dehate isn't going to address encounter issues its useless. if u want to think single target, betray.</p><p>edit: typing pre coffee = bad</p>

[Hellswrath]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pyrotesss@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>regardless of how u look at it. if the proc isn't encounter based its useless, period.</blockquote><p>An encounter based proc will only trigger on your target and its encounter for multi encounter pulls (Palace trash), the proc in its current form can trigger on any mob you hit, reguardless of if you have them or a member of that encounter targeted.</p><p>They each have their advantages and disadvantages, but to say the proc as it is on test is useless seems overly dramatic to me.</p></blockquote><p>Has this been verified for both warlock and wizzy versions?  While it is better than only the targeted mob being effected, if it hits 2 mobs out of a 5 mob encounter and we pull three mobs, we still die.  Granted, we seriously lack any dehate abilities to offset our PBAoEs, but an encounter based proc would be more useful to us overall as that is where the large portion of our aggro issues come from.</p><p>I guess my point is that this proc still doesn't do for a warlocks hate proc what the wizard version does for them.  A wizard's hate issues are mainly single target.  This helps them in almost every respect.  A warlock's hate issues are mainly target encounter.  By <em>not</em> hitting every mob in an encounter, this proc will not prevent us from pulling mobs (and it isn't like it takes a bunch of mobs to drop a moderately geared warlock).</p><p>Oh, Pyrotesss, Noaani is a wizzy already.  No need to betray. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Piropiro]

<p>it would make sense then on why they had no idea what they were talking about in regards to warlocks then <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>