Paladins testing group content [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

View Full Version : Paladins testing group content

Antryg Mistrose

01-12-2009, 10:21 AM

Any paladins on test who don't have the T8 Restitution adept3 (amends), and ARE TESTING GROUP CONTENT, send me a mail (Asdran), as I brought a couple of extra silicate loams over and are an alchemist.I've tested as much as I can be bothered solo - got my spell order and tool bars arranged, but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of groups happening on my timezone, and I'd like to see SOMEONE feedback from a position of knowledge. Extrapolating, we are so much more than just stuffed its not funny, but it is just extrapolating.

Azurro

01-12-2009, 05:50 PM

Here is my take on the Live Update 51.1. Paladins have no passive hate gain. Our hate gain proc requires us to hit the mob in order to trigger. When stunned/stifled/etc. I have no manner of generating hate against the mob. Also since this is tied to melee attacks only as I understand it won’t trigger off our AOE’s. To make matters worse the penalties tied to this stance work against the proc making it even harder to trigger it. Aura of the Crusader comes too late in the game to make it a good solution to this issue and it doesn’t work consistently.2. Paladin heals take to long to cast and heal for two little to be useful. Without amends and given how heals generate less hate then a melee attack our wards/heals seem of very little use anymore. We just don’t have the time to manage agro and self heals. A good fix for this could be to add a encounter or all enemy hate component to our wards/heals so that they are in line with comparable casting time AOE’s.3. It seems like the new changes force Paladins down the Strength line to get the Idolic Axe buff. None of my TSO gear has taunt crits on it including my Void armor and Fabled TSO set gear. 4. I believe the penalties on defensive stance are to steep as currently implemented. For a less the perfectly equipped player they make soloing and casual grouping very difficult.5. At it’s core I believe the concept of multi target and single target tanks is flawed. A multi target tank requires enough agro generation to ensure they can hold agro off a single target otherwise in group encounters all the mobs will be on the tank except the one the group has targeted. Given that a multi target tank will always be able to hold agro on a single encounter good enough to get though it, they will always be better at tanking instances overall then a single target tank. In addition I personally find the idea of SOE closing off content from me because of the class I choose to play unfair since this only affects tank players.

Melli

01-12-2009, 06:42 PM

I agree with the AE vs single target tank issues. While that is fine from a dps standpoint, from a hate management point of view it stinks because the AE tank will by default have the edge on all encounters. All tanks need the ability to generate hate regardless of the type of encounter - and I would think that it should be easier to accomplish without crossing lines now that hate isn't tied to DPS.

FreaklyCreak

01-12-2009, 06:52 PM

<cite>Azurro wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here is my take on the Live Update 51.1. Paladins have no passive hate gain. Our hate gain proc requires us to hit the mob in order to trigger. When stunned/stifled/etc. I have no manner of generating hate against the mob. Also since this is tied to melee attacks only as I understand it won’t trigger off our AOE’s. To make matters worse the plenty’s tied to this stance work against the proc making it even harder to trigger it. Aura of the Crusader comes too late in the game to make it a good solution to this issue and it doesn’t work consistently.2. Paladin heals take to long to cast and heal for two little to be useful. Without amends and given how heals generate less hate then a melee attack our wards/heals seem of very little use anymore. We just don’t have the time to manage agro and self heals. A good fix for this could be to add a encounter or all enemy hate component to our wards/heals so that they are in line with comparable casting time AOE’s.3. It seems like the new changes force Paladins down the Strength line to get the Idolic Axe buff. None of my TSO gear has taunt crits on it including my Void armor and Fabled TSO set gear. 4. I believe the plenty’s on defensive stance are to steep as currently implemented. For a less the perfectly equipped player they make soloing and casual grouping very difficult.5. At it’s core I believe the concept of multi target and single target tanks is flawed. A multi target tank requires enough agro generation to ensure they can hold agro off a single target otherwise in group encounters all the mobs will be on the tank except the one the group has targeted. Given that a multi target tank will always be able to hold agro on a single encounter good enough to get though it, they will always be better at tanking instances overall then a single target tank. In addition I personally find the idea of SOE closing off content from me because of the class I choose to play unfair since this only affects tank players.</blockquote>#1 Active use of taunts are now the general pick up to not having Amends I'd assume. Dunno what the paladin taunts look like(I play an SK)#2 These need faster casting and better quality outside of being in a tank position. You never hear anyone say how a raid NEEDS a paladin for it's heals/wards or buffs.#3 You should go down STR anyway for the passive recast/casting/rocovery. It's just a matter of 4/4/8/6/2 instead of 6/8/8/0/2. Atleast IMO.#4 My stance on defence stances has been posted else where. Pardon the pun.#5 Totally agreed.

FearDiadh

01-13-2009, 08:31 AM

I made a fresh test copy of my ranger and set out to test the changes to agro, because to me it already seems tough on live. I wanted to see the changes first hand, but I can't.Test copy is a wasteland. There are no level channels and it is difficult to find anyone to group with. I actually only ran across one person the three times I logged in there. That was a monk and he didn't want to test the changes he just wanted to duel me, which went about as well for him as my group search went for me. If someone wants to shoot me a cross server tell to Lucan D'Lere, and I am not raiding or already in an instance there, I will be glad to jump over to test and actually test the changes. I have have some serious agro generation. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Azurro

01-14-2009, 01:06 PM

The problem with the Crusader AA line is the Crit’s are to spread out. With the new system Warriors have two cirts on there lines that matter melee crit and taunt crit. Crusaders and especially Paladins have four. Melee, Spell, Taunt and Heals. Spell and Heals are on the same line but Melee and Taunt are not. So that means at a minimum build I’m looking at Str – 4 4 4 8Sta – 4 4 8Int – 4 4 8 X (However many I think I can spare for heal crits) This means it costs us 52 AA points just to get to our key crits. That just about makes the Wis and Agi lines unusable although trample in the agi line is very appealing the way the Paladins taunt proc now works. Assuming of course Trample procs it which I have not tested. The easy fix for this would be to combine melee and spell crits into one AA. Since Crusader DPS is split almost evenly between CA’s and spells where as warrior dps is exclusively melee this should be a no brainier. There are other classes like bards that have this issue but bards don’t perform the same roles in groups/raids that other scouts do like Crusaders and Warriors.

Faelgalad

01-14-2009, 10:34 PM

With the reduction of DPS for Aggro by tanking in Def-Stance, throw out Stamina-Line.Str. 4-7-8-8-EndskillAgi. 4-4-8Int. 4-4-8-8