Monks 10% raid wide siphon will be IMBA after GU51

[forge32]

<p>With all the changes to the mechanics in game to make tanks self dependent on there own skill to manage agro.This ability they have basically flaws that concept. If the track shield losses its proc then so should the monks 10 % raid wide siphon.</p><p>I mean lets be fair,and completely level out all siphons to be non  existent if this is infact the aproach we are heading in.</p><p>This is my formal petition if track shield does get changed.Whats good for the goose is good for the gander so to speak.</p>

[Herme]

<p>The monk's siphon is an AA ability, specifically designed to be just that.  It's either a 9% siphon if on a non-fighter or a 5% transfer if on another fighter.</p>

[forge32]

<p>aa or item its still a siphon if we are going to complain about an item haveing a siphon ability you can not use then either all tanks get the aa ability for siphon, or both get removed.</p>

[Herme]

<p>Now that I've woken up a little and looked at the shield, it can only be compared to monk's siphon in that it is a siphon.  Monk's siphon is single target, the trak shield is the MT's entire group's hate, heals AND DPS.  but meh, I've never noticed much of a difference in using monk's siphon in order to hold or reduce threat while tanking orDPSing on my monk.  Then again, he's never been in a raid above T7.</p>

[Siatfallen]

<p><cite>forge32 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With all the changes to the mechanics in game to make tanks self dependent on there own skill to manage agro.This ability they have basically flaws that concept. If the track shield losses its proc then so should the monks 10 % raid wide siphon.</p><p>I mean lets be fair,and completely level out all siphons to be non  existent if this is infact the aproach we are heading in.</p><p>This is my formal petition if track shield does get changed.Whats good for the goose is good for the gander so to speak.</p></blockquote><p>At present, the main use of the monk Enhance: Tranquil Vision on raids is to transfer aggro to a main tank, to keep the monk from ripping. True, it can be used as a siphon to steal 9% from another toon in the raid (assuming Tranquil Vision is mastered).</p><p>As per the AA description on Test, it looks like this aspect of the AA is intended to be reduced to 5% - That intention just doesn't correctly transfer to the ability at present.So, given the OPs suggestion here, let's conclude: Since it seems that Traquil Vision is getting nerfed, by his own admission, so should the Trak shield be. Please lower the effect to do whatever Tranquil Vision is being lowered to - because apparently, these two abilities should now be comparable. So, sorry plate tanks, I guess that means 5% aggro siphon from one person in the raid rather than 10% from the entire group. That is, after all, what it looks like monks will be getting - and these two things should compete directly, obviously.</p><p>Or... Maybe the OP could accept the fact that the Trak shield clicky effect is much, much more powerful than the Tranquil Vision enhancement and reevaluate how reasonable a nerf (that hasn't even been hinted at by the devs that I know of) would be, comparatively.Seriously, it's usually reserved to brawlers to be the "the sky is falling" fighter archetype. Toss half a possibility of a nerf after the warrior class however, and look what happens. That is assuming the OP is indeed playing a warrior, of course.</p><p>However: Please, by all means, remove the aggro siphon and transfer component of Enchance: Tranquil Vision. Instead, add a deflection chance (not +deflection), or possibly a mitigation bonus to the brawler who has it active. Sadly, the people whose aggro-holding ability will really suffer from that on the raid level of the game will be the raid MTs, which is usually not the brawlers out there. With the new offensive stance, it's not like monks will need this tool to avoid ripping anyway. Or, give us increased avoidance if we place it on a non-fighter, and increased base CA damage if we place it on a tank. Just to make sure it offers no synergy to the plate tanks of the raid at all.</p>

[Irgun]

<p>@forge32</p><p>Your problem is you want other classes/abilities/items nerfed as soon as you are through some change or whatever - stop your behaviour. Wether minor adjustments are made, or none at all. But always crying someone else has to bite the bullet too because you did (did you??) is whining deluxe.</p>

[Herme]

<p><cite>Siatfallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>However: Please, by all means, remove the aggro siphon and transfer component of Enchance: Tranquil Vision. Instead, add a deflection chance (not +deflection), or possibly a mitigation bonus to the brawler who has it active. Sadly, the people whose aggro-holding ability will really suffer from that on the raid level of the game will be the raid MTs, which is usually not the brawlers out there. With the new offensive stance, it's not like monks will need this tool to avoid ripping anyway. Or, give us increased avoidance if we place it on a non-fighter, and increased base CA damage if we place it on a tank. Just to make sure it offers no synergy to the plate tanks of the raid at all.</p></blockquote><p>That's a good idea, I think I'll /feedback it tomorrow when I log in to test again.</p>

[Maveric_LOL]

<p><cite>forge32 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With all the changes to the mechanics in game to make tanks self dependent on there own skill to manage agro.This ability they have basically flaws that concept. If the track shield losses its proc then so should the monks 10 % raid wide siphon.</p><p>I mean lets be fair,and completely level out all siphons to be non  existent if this is infact the aproach we are heading in.</p><p>This is my formal petition if track shield does get changed.Whats good for the goose is good for the gander so to speak.</p></blockquote><p>Ya know im not sure the trak shield really directly compares to the monk siphon. As a pally though, what i WOULD say is this:</p><p>If i am loosing my amends and every other class is also loosing their transfer, then the monk siphon should be removed.</p><p>Whats fair is fair</p>

[UNTILitSLEEPS]

<p>1. trak shield siphons 10% of every group member = 50% total = cap of active hategain/transfer!</p><p>2. on any tougher raid content tanked by a monk the monk would never use his own avoid buff but have another fighters avoid buff</p><p>that siphon is very situational and monk is the weakest of all tank classes (at least in raids) as it stands</p>

[Gungo]

<p>Not every class is loosing its siphon.</p><p>Coercers are still keeping thiers.</p><p>Monks at the moment are still keeping thiers.Personally i do not see an issue with monks keeping a 9-10% siphon or 5% transfer with max AA's.</p><p>I also do not see an issue with the trak shield being nerfed to a single target in group ability instead of a group wide siphon.</p><p>This is a very childish and immature post by the Op.</p>

[forge32]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not every class is loosing its siphon.</p><p>Coercers are still keeping thiers.</p><p>Monks at the moment are still keeping thiers.Personally i do not see an issue with monks keeping a 9-10% siphon or 5% transfer with max AA's.</p><p>I also do not see an issue with the trak shield being nerfed to a single target in group ability instead of a group wide siphon.</p><p>This is a very childish and immature post by the Op.</p></blockquote><p>You would think so yes non plate tank.Just as i and the rest of the plate tanks think the op who made the track shield post as well was childish and inmature.Lets see it started off with  omg tanks doing to much dps to now omg abilities/items/aa is OP ,and allowing tanks to hold agro well?.</p><p>I seriously wonder some times what most of you guys are actually thinking when reading your posts.So when a group / raid member die's all tanks should turn around and say omg im too OP. Only one person died instead of the majority of group/raid.Would this suit the communities ill rational thoughts.</p><p>I could care less on haveing a high parse as long as i could maintain solid agro versus high dps  classes group/raid parses. However aparently we should not even be able to hold agro well either get a grip  in reality plz.If track shield does get changed , then all other siphons in game should be removed as well, and then that way the comunity will see there  foolish, and ill rational  lame idea at its best.</p>

[Vulkan_NTooki]

<p>You shoulda linked the Trak shield imba thread in your original post.. then ppl would see where your coming from...</p>

[Caethre]

<p><cite>forge32 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With all the changes to the mechanics in game to make tanks self dependent on there own skill to manage agro.This ability they have basically flaws that concept. If the track shield losses its proc then so should the monks 10 % raid wide siphon.</p><p>I mean lets be fair,and completely level out all siphons to be non  existent if this is infact the aproach we are heading in.</p><p>This is my formal petition if track shield does get changed.Whats good for the goose is good for the gander so to speak.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">OOC.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The effect on an item and class AA abilities are entirely different concepts. Classes can never be balanced on items (because what happens to those players who do not have that item?).</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">However, your post is not looking for fairness and any reference to "fairness" is a lie here. You are just unhappy with a proposed change to your own class, and so purposefully advocating a nerf to another class. Not only is your post 'childish' as someone earlier put it, it is also deliberately inflammatory.</span></p>

[forge32]

<p><cite>Felishanna@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>forge32 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With all the changes to the mechanics in game to make tanks self dependent on there own skill to manage agro.This ability they have basically flaws that concept. If the track shield losses its proc then so should the monks 10 % raid wide siphon.</p><p>I mean lets be fair,and completely level out all siphons to be non  existent if this is infact the aproach we are heading in.</p><p>This is my formal petition if track shield does get changed.Whats good for the goose is good for the gander so to speak.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">OOC.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The effect on an item and class AA abilities are entirely different concepts. Classes can never be balanced on items (because what happens to those players who do not have that item?).</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">However, your post is not looking for fairness and any reference to "fairness" is a lie here. You are just unhappy with a proposed change to your own class, and so purposefully advocating a nerf to another class. Not only is your post 'childish' as someone earlier put it, it is also deliberately inflammatory.</span></p></blockquote><p>It is not going to effect just my class it effects all plate classes that can use that tower shield.Say its childish what ever you like , to nerf an item that is designed to help tanks do there job imo is foolish and beyond childish its just plain stupid.If you do not get the fact that sarcasm sets in with this post then i guess you will not understand the actuall reason for said post to  be made.</p><p>If read on through the thread instead of replying to the intial post.  I am sure sure would see ,and understand my reasoning for said post.</p>

[Junaru]

<p>Ok lets get the numbers right. It's 5% and 7% using the "proper" buff. If you select the lower level one as a Master II choice then it becomes 5% and 11% but the lower level version doesn't give you the same protection (duh).</p><p>The 5% is pointless since most fighters will be at the bottom of the list of hate with GU51.</p><p>The 7% I doubt will be meaningful as tanks aren't having aggro issues with GU51.</p><p>The MOST this is useful for is to take 11% from a high DPS class while in DPS mode just for added protection to them.</p><p>But hey if you thin 5% and 7% are OP but all means change it. While they are at it change Mongoose stance, shard gear for brawler (no need for dehate) and Bruiser epic (again no need for dehate). If you aren't willing to change all those, go pound sand.</p><p>BTW I think the OP is just being a whinner.</p>

[forge32]

<p><cite>Junaru wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok lets get the numbers right. It's 5% and 7% using the "proper" buff. If you select the lower level one as a Master II choice then it becomes 5% and 11% but the lower level version doesn't give you the same protection (duh).</p><p>The 5% is pointless since most fighters will be at the bottom of the list of hate with GU51.</p><p>The 7% I doubt will be meaningful as tanks aren't having aggro issues with GU51.</p><p>The MOST this is useful for is to take 11% from a high DPS class while in DPS mode just for added protection to them.</p><p>But hey if you thin 5% and 7% are OP but all means change it. While they are at it change Mongoose stance, shard gear for brawler (no need for dehate) and Bruiser epic (again no need for dehate). If you aren't willing to change all those, go pound sand.</p><p>BTW I think the OP is just being a whinner.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah just like the guy who posted the thread on track shield is.My bad tanks having items that help them achieve hate to hold agro is a bad thing.Maybe give all tanks toothpicks to fight with ,and plastic  armor/shield.Still not getting the sarcasm  intent of the post ?.</p>