Spell merges and quality

[SilentTrouble]

<p>I was just wondering after looking at some of the new test changes,  that many guardian spells are going to be merged. In the event that 2 of the merging abilities are of different qualities which ones will the new abilities use. Will it always use the higher of the 2 qualities or will each merge have a set ability that will hold its quality and just change its affects.</p><p>Thanks in advance</p>

[Emperors]

<p>I would also like to know the answer to this.</p>

[Aven Elonis]

<p>Yup, add me to the list of wanting to know. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Master 1 - Hold the Line Spell vs Adept III - Def Stance ---- what will the combined spell level be ?</p>

[Obadiah]

<p><cite>SilentTrouble wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was just wondering after looking at some of the new test changes,  that many guardian spells are going to be merged. In the event that 2 of the merging abilities are of different qualities which ones will the new abilities use. Will it always use the higher of the 2 qualities or will each merge have a set ability that will hold its quality and just change its affects.</p><p>Thanks in advance</p></blockquote><p>If your defensive stance is a master now, it will be a master after. The other abilities no longer exist.</p><p>So, for example:</p><p><em><span >The Battle Tactics line has been merged into the Call to Arms line of spells.</span></em></p><p>Whatever quality your Call to Arms is will be what you have. Battle Tactics is gone.</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>SilentTrouble wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was just wondering after looking at some of the new test changes,  that many guardian spells are going to be merged. In the event that 2 of the merging abilities are of different qualities which ones will the new abilities use. Will it always use the higher of the 2 qualities or will each merge have a set ability that will hold its quality and just change its affects.</p><p>Thanks in advance</p></blockquote><p>If your defensive stance is a master now, it will be a master after. The other abilities no longer exist.</p><p>So, for example:</p><p><em><span>The Battle Tactics line has been merged into the Call to Arms line of spells.</span></em></p><p>Whatever quality your Call to Arms is will be what you have. Battle Tactics is gone.</p></blockquote><p>NOt quite right.A QA person posted in the sticked thread at the top of the forums:</p><p><span style="font-size: x-small; color: blue; font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue; font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: #888888;">When two spells are merged, whichever original spell had the highest tier will apply it to the final spell. For example a Shadowknight with Master I Dark Caress and Adept I Stance: Defensive Pact will end up with a Master I Stance: Defensive Pact.</span> </span></span></p><p></p>

[Anastasie]

<p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=75&topic_id=440463#4908950">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...=440463#4908950</a></p><p><span style="font-size: x-small; color: blue; font-family: Arial;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue; font-family: Arial;"><span style="color: #ff99cc;"><span style="color: #888888;"><span style="color: #ff99cc;">"When two spells are merged, whichever original spell had the highest tier will apply it to the final spell. For example a Shadowknight with Master I Dark Caress and Adept I Stance: Defensive Pact will end up with a Master I Stance: Defensive Pact.</span></span></span></span></span></p>

[SilentTrouble]

<p>Ok so in reponse to that... I have the T8 version of hold the line master one but im not high enough to have the T8 version of defensive stance yet until i gain some more levels... will i have to say bye bye to my hold the aggression upgrade? or how will that work?</p>

[Obadiah]

<p><cite>SilentTrouble wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ok so in reponse to that... I have the T8 version of hold the line master one but im not high enough to have the T8 version of defensive stance yet until i gain some more levels... will i have to say bye bye to my hold the aggression upgrade? or how will that work?</p></blockquote><p>OK, I guess I'm a liar. I will have to check again later. I could swear though, that I was left with an Adept 3 stance on Test and my Berserk had been Master 1. In fact, I bought my stance for that very reason. Can I have my 60P back? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Isn't it just one more level to get to your stance? Or do you mean you have the scroll, but are much lower level? Raises another interesting question, particularly for people who have higher level masters waiting for them ... do scrolls of merged spells just go 'poof'?</p>

[Aeralik]

<p>When it combines multiple spells it looks at the version of each spell involved and then takes the highest version to use for the combined version.  So if you have 2 app1s and they are combined with a master then the result is a master. </p><p>The one exception is if it was a master2 choices.  In those cases instead of using the master 2 it will look at the version you had before you chose the master 2 for calculation. In this case, it will also reset your character traits because that choice is probably no longer valid.</p>

[Junaru]

<p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When it combines multiple spells it looks at the version of each spell involved and then takes the highest version to use for the combined version.  So if you have 2 app1s and they are combined with a master then the result is a master. </p><p>The one exception is if it was a master2 choices.  In those cases instead of using the master 2 it will look at the version you had before you chose the master 2 for calculation. In this case, it will also reset your character traits because that choice is probably no longer valid.</p></blockquote><p>Doesn't really help people like me who spend hard earned money on getting 95% masters. All off the Monk merges I have a M1 already. Kind of sucks that someone who spent 20p on a master of Dragon Rage will get their defence stance as M1 when that goes for 100p.</p><p>I guess there really isn't anything you can do for that then.</p><p>Thanks for atleast explaining it to us.</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When it combines multiple spells it looks at the version of each spell involved and then takes the highest version to use for the combined version. So if you have 2 app1s and they are combined with a master then the result is a master.</p><p>The one exception is if it was a master2 choices. In those cases instead of using the master 2 it will look at the version you had before you chose the master 2 for calculation. In this case, it will also reset your character traits because that choice is probably no longer valid.</p></blockquote><p>OK so currently I have my M2 Guardian HP buff...and AD3 D Stance...i never bothered to get any upgrades to the HP buff because I knew I was gonna pick the M2 choice......  </p><p>When this goes live will the new +HP component of the new D stance be equiv to APP 1 or AD3?</p><p>Or should I respec out of the M2...buy the AD3 sometime before all this stuff goes live?</p>

[Jakn]

<p>Hmm, I don't understand this really, so here is my question.</p><p>At the Moment my Bruiser is at lvl76. He has defstance M1, manhandle M1, offstance adept 3. Will he get defstance + offstance M1 or will offstance stay at adept 3?</p><p>Very confused...</p><p>Jaknar</p>

[Zagats]

<p>Thanks for replying Aeralik.</p><p>I do have one question, however. I fully understand that when two spells are merged, your new spell will be the highest of the two qualities. But when merging one spell into two other spells, as in the case of the Zerkers getting Berserk added to both thier Offensive and Defensive stances. How is that working? I have Berserk Rage M1 (also my M2 choice, but that won't matter since I had scribed it as M1). I am assuming that is the spell being merged into both the stances. So if my offensive stance is M1 prior to merge, no problem it will be M1 after, but my defenseive stance is Adept 3, as is the other spells merging directly with the defensive stance, with the exception of Berserk Rage being Master 1. I guess it just seems a tad different as this one master has the potention to get a Zerker both offensive and defensive stances at M1 if it was M1 prior to the merge. If that's the case, I won't be complaining. I'm just looking for some clarification. Thanks in advance for responding to this.</p>

[Arrowheart]

<p><blockquote>But when merging one spell into two other spells, as in the case of the Zerkers getting Berserk added to both thier Offensive and Defensive stances. How is that working?</blockquote></p><p>I test copied my monk over from live to test this (we get 2 buffs merged into all our stances).</p><p>I can verify that if you have a m1 that merges into multiple stances all of those stances will end up m1.</p>

[ATG]

So what happens to a M1 that isn't scribed yet? Let's say I have a M1 spell scroll that merges into 2 other spells. Does my M1 poof into thin air? Or if I scribe it after the update, it will become M1's of both the other spells. And yes, my toon isn't high enough to scribe the M1 yet.

[Maroger]

<p>I had both my buffs at Master 1 but yet after the merger the stances were just what they were on Live. I thought with the merger we got the higher of 2 spell - i.e. Both stances should be at Master I. But yet one is still at Adept III</p>

[Tandy]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I had both my buffs at Master 1 but yet after the merger the stances were just what they were on Live. I thought with the merger we got the higher of 2 spell - i.e. Both stances should be at Master I. But yet one is still at Adept III</p></blockquote><p>The only thing I can think that might cause that is if you were using a lower tier master 1 over a current tier one? Or if the stance is a new tier and buff is old tier.  Would be wroth checking the levels on everything, and if you then see that is SHOULD all be same tier petition it.</p><p>I had the arms proc in master 1 and the dmg shield/lifetap proc both at master 1 and on test I have both stances in master 1. Of course that is at all at level 80, so no questions about tiers.</p><p>Hopefully you get it sorted out and if there is a bug with the lower tier stances it gets nailed down before it goes live.</p>

[Maroger]

<p><cite>Xaren@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I had both my buffs at Master 1 but yet after the merger the stances were just what they were on Live. I thought with the merger we got the higher of 2 spell - i.e. Both stances should be at Master I. But yet one is still at Adept III</p></blockquote><p>The only thing I can think that might cause that is if you were using a lower tier master 1 over a current tier one? Or if the stance is a new tier and buff is old tier.  Would be wroth checking the levels on everything, and if you then see that is SHOULD all be same tier petition it.</p><p>I had the arms proc in master 1 and the dmg shield/lifetap proc both at master 1 and on test I have both stances in master 1. Of course that is at all at level 80, so no questions about tiers.</p><p>Hopefully you get it sorted out and if there is a bug with the lower tier stances it gets nailed down before it goes live.</p></blockquote><p>Both my Nefarious Carerss and Grim Strike are at Master I and they are Level 66 Spells - I am level 69</p><p>My PoX Sword (off) is a level 60 spell and is Adept III, my Infernal Circle is a Level 58 spell and is Master I. When I had the character copies over to test I received both stances at their current level.</p><p>But  I also had in my Spell Book the level 72 and 73 Stances at Master I level.</p><p>[Removed for Content] is going on with this? Is this the way it is supposed to be? Will it go live this way?</p>

[Aeralik]

<p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xaren@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I had both my buffs at Master 1 but yet after the merger the stances were just what they were on Live. I thought with the merger we got the higher of 2 spell - i.e. Both stances should be at Master I. But yet one is still at Adept III</p></blockquote><p>The only thing I can think that might cause that is if you were using a lower tier master 1 over a current tier one? Or if the stance is a new tier and buff is old tier.  Would be wroth checking the levels on everything, and if you then see that is SHOULD all be same tier petition it.</p><p>I had the arms proc in master 1 and the dmg shield/lifetap proc both at master 1 and on test I have both stances in master 1. Of course that is at all at level 80, so no questions about tiers.</p><p>Hopefully you get it sorted out and if there is a bug with the lower tier stances it gets nailed down before it goes live.</p></blockquote><p>Both my Nefarious Carerss and Grim Strike are at Master I and they are Level 66 Spells - I am level 69</p><p>My PoX Sword (off) is a level 60 spell and is Adept III, my Infernal Circle is a Level 58 spell and is Master I. When I had the character copies over to test I received both stances at their current level.</p><p>But  I also had in my Spell Book the level 72 and 73 Stances at Master I level.</p><p>[Removed for Content] is going on with this? Is this the way it is supposed to be? Will it go live this way?</p></blockquote><p>You got the stances because Caress and Grim Strike technically preceded it.  So when it tried to merge spells it ensures you don't lose anything and come out with new master stances based on those level 60 spells.  The new stances just happen to come later for you but its better to save those masters for later than to totally lose them in your case.</p>

[Maroger]

<p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xaren@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I had both my buffs at Master 1 but yet after the merger the stances were just what they were on Live. I thought with the merger we got the higher of 2 spell - i.e. Both stances should be at Master I. But yet one is still at Adept III</p></blockquote><p>The only thing I can think that might cause that is if you were using a lower tier master 1 over a current tier one? Or if the stance is a new tier and buff is old tier.  Would be wroth checking the levels on everything, and if you then see that is SHOULD all be same tier petition it.</p><p>I had the arms proc in master 1 and the dmg shield/lifetap proc both at master 1 and on test I have both stances in master 1. Of course that is at all at level 80, so no questions about tiers.</p><p>Hopefully you get it sorted out and if there is a bug with the lower tier stances it gets nailed down before it goes live.</p></blockquote><p>Both my Nefarious Carerss and Grim Strike are at Master I and they are Level 66 Spells - I am level 69</p><p>My PoX Sword (off) is a level 60 spell and is Adept III, my Infernal Circle is a Level 58 spell and is Master I. When I had the character copies over to test I received both stances at their current level.</p><p>But  I also had in my Spell Book the level 72 and 73 Stances at Master I level.</p><p>[Removed for Content] is going on with this? Is this the way it is supposed to be? Will it go live this way?</p></blockquote><p>You got the stances because Caress and Grim Strike technically preceded it.  So when it tried to merge spells it ensures you don't lose anything and come out with new master stances based on those level 60 spells.  The new stances just happen to come later for you but its better to save those masters for later than to totally lose them in your case.</p></blockquote><p>Ok thanks - that it explains it. Then I will get the Master CHoices for the 72 and 73 stances when this goes live.</p><p>Do these stances then include the level 77 version of the buffs or do we get new stances then or what?</p>

[Noaani]

<p>Ah, there are no level 77 versions of the buffs... they got merged into the stances.</p>

[Maroger]

<p><cite>Noaani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ah, there are no level 77 versions of the buffs... they got merged into the stances.</p></blockquote><p>I know but were they merged into the 72/73 version of the stances?</p>

[Noaani]

<p>Yes.</p>

[stavery]

<p>I have serious issues with the master 2 answer you have given us.</p><p>Since I had chosen teh master 2 ability I have actually given the master 1 spell to other serkers in my guild and passed on loot rolls when that spell dropped.</p><p>Now because I was a nice guy and there was no reason to scribe a spell lower than the ability that I already had I am going to see those that I helped in the past get phenominal stnaces and mine will stay adept 3.</p><p>This is just beyong insane as the adept 3 version of the stance is actually a lower quality than the Master 2 version of the level 64 stance.</p><p>So because I was nice to other serkers, and let them have a spell i had no need for, instead of getting TWO master 1 stances with the merger I will be using a stance 20 levels under my level as it has a better proc on it than the adept 3 versions of my stance I am being left with.</p><p>So tell me, If i go out and spend massive plat on buying a master 1 of berserk rage and scribe it now, even though i have the M2 already, when they merge what will i be left with? a a3 as I had a3 as my highest before i chose the m2 ability or a m1 as I scribed an m1 ability.</p><p>Seriously, you are removing stuff from us. Honestly since you are "removing" the abilities from the game teh fact that you will be upgrading some people (the ones with the master 1 spells) and screwing those of us that chose the master 2 choice, this just really irks me.  I mean seriously I had a better ability and buff than the others, a m2 is better than an m1 remember, and because I had the BETTER ability I'm the one getting screwed in teh deal? come on now! I know you can't make teh stances into master 2's but seriously, if you are merging some masters (the 1's) and making everything they merge into a master as well DO THE SAME FOR THE MASTER 2's</p>

[Illine]

<p>better not disappear, otherwise, many angry people soon.</p>

[Obadiah]

<p><cite>stavery wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have serious issues with the master 2 answer you have given us.</p><p>Since I had chosen teh master 2 ability I have actually given the master 1 spell to other serkers in my guild and passed on loot rolls when that spell dropped.</p><p>Now because I was a nice guy and there was no reason to scribe a spell lower than the ability that I already had I am going to see those that I helped in the past get phenominal stnaces and mine will stay adept 3.</p><p>This is just beyong insane as the adept 3 version of the stance is actually a lower quality than the Master 2 version of the level 64 stance.</p><p>So because I was nice to other serkers, and let them have a spell i had no need for, instead of getting TWO master 1 stances with the merger I will be using a stance 20 levels under my level as it has a better proc on it than the adept 3 versions of my stance I am being left with.</p><p>So tell me, If i go out and spend massive plat on buying a master 1 of berserk rage and scribe it now, even though i have the M2 already, when they merge what will i be left with? a a3 as I had a3 as my highest before i chose the m2 ability or a m1 as I scribed an m1 ability.</p><p>Seriously, you are removing stuff from us. Honestly since you are "removing" the abilities from the game teh fact that you will be upgrading some people (the ones with the master 1 spells) and screwing those of us that chose the master 2 choice, this just really irks me.  I mean seriously I had a better ability and buff than the others, a m2 is better than an m1 remember, and because I had the BETTER ability I'm the one getting screwed in teh deal? come on now! I know you can't make teh stances into master 2's but seriously, if you are merging some masters (the 1's) and making everything they merge into a master as well DO THE SAME FOR THE MASTER 2's</p></blockquote><p>I'm somewhat confused ... neither stance was a M2 choice at 75 or 64. Which ability M1 did you pass on ... Berserk Rage? If you have Berserk Rage OR Aggressive Defense OR Determined Will at M1, you will have the defensive stance at M1. If you have Berserk Rage OR Abandoned Fury at M1 you will have the offensive stance at M1. Whatever your highest SCRIBED quality is of any combined component.</p><p>M2 choices are just rendered irrelavant to the equation. You can't merge M2s into it, otherwise everyone just needs to respec their character before the update to get a free Master. M2s aren't scribed, they're free. They're just choices.</p><p>If you don't have any of them at M1, Berserk Rage is the scroll to buy because just having that one M1 will result in BOTH stances ending up at M1.</p><p>How about the player (me) that bought ALL of their Masters? (Except the ONE that dropped) I don't get my 100+ plat back for the merged spells, do I? Can't please everyone.</p>

[Supergnom]

<p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When it combines multiple spells it looks at the version of each spell involved and then takes the highest version to use for the combined version.  So if you have 2 app1s and they are combined with a master then the result is a master. </p><p>The one exception is if it was a master2 choices.  In those cases instead of using the master 2 it will look at the version you had before you chose the master 2 for calculation. In this case, it will also reset your character traits because that choice is probably no longer valid.</p></blockquote><p>Just to be a 100% certain:</p><ul><span ><li> The Hold The Line spell line has been merged with the defensive stance lines. So both as ad3 will result in an ad3 version.</li> <li>The Iron Will Spell line has been merged with both the offensive and defensive stances. So M1 Iron Will and ad3 stances will now result in M1 stances? </li> <li>The Battle Tactics line has been merged into the Call to Arms line of spells. So m2 (previously ad3) Battle tactics and M1 Call to arms will result in an ad3 version?</li></span></ul>

[Tandy]

<p><cite>Supergnom@Innovation wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When it combines multiple spells it looks at the version of each spell involved and then takes the highest version to use for the combined version.  So if you have 2 app1s and they are combined with a master then the result is a master. </p><p>The one exception is if it was a master2 choices.  In those cases instead of using the master 2 it will look at the version you had before you chose the master 2 for calculation. In this case, it will also reset your character traits because that choice is probably no longer valid.</p></blockquote><p>Just to be a 100% certain:</p><ul><span><li> The Hold The Line spell line has been merged with the defensive stance lines. So both as ad3 will result in an ad3 version.</li> <li>The Iron Will Spell line has been merged with both the offensive and defensive stances. So M1 Iron Will and ad3 stances will now result in M1 stances? </li> <li>The Battle Tactics line has been merged into the Call to Arms line of spells. <strong>So m2 (previously ad3) Battle tactics and M1 Call to arms will result in an ad3 version?</strong></li></span></ul></blockquote><p>Any spell mergers that involve a Master 1 will end in a master 1.  The Master 2 will not be looked at as a Master 2 but as an Adept 3, merging with a Master 1.  So no worries there.</p>