Why is ZW parse so important? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Opti

01-07-2009, 09:59 PM

I will start by saying I have not raided in EQ2. I am only 74.Why is there so much concern over who gets the highest ZW parse? There was a thread not too long ago saying Necros suck because they can't top the ZW. What does it matter? Since when is DPS on trash so important you will leave a class out because they do better on bosses instead of garbage? Isn't the point of a raid to kill bosses? Is the trash so incredibly difficult that if it akes 3 seconds longer to kill it will wipe the raid because you brought a necro instead of an assassin? [Removed for Content]?I raided heavily in WoW. I was an officer and raid leader. After raids we looked over the WWS which is an online view of a parse basically, and the first thing we did was switch it to only boss fights. Why? Because trash is trash. It just simply does not matter. What makes EQ2 so incredibly different that people will leave another class out because they are behind on trash dps? Before I took a break, this game was so different. It was different because people played to enjoy the game and the mass amounts of content. Now it seems to be turning into the same [Removed for Content] fest that is WoW.

Xil

01-07-2009, 10:18 PM

<cite>Opti@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I will start by saying I have not raided in EQ2. I am only 74.Why is there so much concern over who gets the highest ZW parse? There was a thread not too long ago saying Necros suck because they can't top the ZW. What does it matter? Since when is DPS on trash so important you will leave a class out because they do better on bosses instead of garbage? Isn't the point of a raid to kill bosses? Is the trash so incredibly difficult that if it akes 3 seconds longer to kill it will wipe the raid because you brought a necro instead of an assassin? [Removed for Content]?I raided heavily in WoW. I was an officer and raid leader. After raids we looked over the WWS which is an online view of a parse basically, and the first thing we did was switch it to only boss fights. Why? Because trash is trash. It just simply does not matter. What makes EQ2 so incredibly different that people will leave another class out because they are behind on trash dps? Before I took a break, this game was so different. It was different because people played to enjoy the game and the mass amounts of content. Now it seems to be turning into the same [Removed for Content] fest that is WoW.</blockquote>The truth is they don't really matter. Trash is Trash.The only ones who actually complain are people that have finished pretty much all the content in the Game already and when they go back to farm zones like VP they want to kill the trash as fast as possible so they can clear the zone faster and get to those names the drop stuff faster. That's it.So don't worry about the people complaining here. It's easy to forget that these forums and others like them only represent about 10% of the total population of any given Game (combined this means between all the forums not per forum) and only about half of that 10% participate in discussions.Even if you have 1000 people all complaining about something on an given forums at one time that's only 1000 out of 10,000 and those other 9,000 probably don't share the same views expressed here or even care at all.Top end guilds exclude classes to make farming easier and faster. They run with 4 bard 4 chanter 2 brigand. That's 5 of the 24 classes that have to be excluded to maximize trash killing potential so farming goes faster. That's the only reason they do it. Faster Faster Faster, First First First. Plain and simple.You can successfully clear all content in the game with 1 of each class on the raid. It's just harder because every person on the raid needs to be in top form and geared well. By running the way top tier raid guilds generally do, it overpowers the raid force to the point that 5 or 6 people could simply be AFK and the encounter would still be killed extremely quickly. It's Easy-Mode raiding for all intents and purposes.

Enoa

01-08-2009, 12:57 AM

Wow someone doesn't understand this game.Guilds don't run 4 chanters 4 bards and exclude useless classes so they can clear content they've cleared faster. They do it to maximize dps, survivability, versatility . and if you haven't noticed content is easier the more dps you have. (exception nexona but even there you need to meet a standard of dps to get the adds down). So sure old zones are easier if you maximize dps BUT SO IS NEW CONTENT!!!Once your raid gets your mythicals go and try Venril again with mythicals.... isn't dealing with one mana sacrifice a bit easier than dealing lets say 5-6 per fight? Example.... If you had an option to bring class A that is capable of 8k dps or class B that is capable of 7.5k dps while buffing those around him so they can can produce another 1k dps each (or conversely debuffing the mob so as to increase everyone elses dps). Which would you take? Oh and I think the people who post include an appropriate sample of the playing populatoin. In fact I would argue posters consist of people who play the game, understand the game, plan on playing the game for awhile yet, and want to make some improvements in their favorite classes, zones, questlines. Oh there is the occassional loser with delusions of granduer, who post garbage, who post from alt accounts to make themselves seem better than they are but those are rare and shouldnt' reflect on the rest of us <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />The reason people look at zonewides is some classes can spike really high dps every once in awhile (lifeburn is one such spell) and is not a true representation of what each person is bringing to the table. Zonewides help even this out. Both are important but zonewides are more representative and prevent people from trying the win the parse with ez-win buttons (bertox miracle + lifeburn + UT for example). Important than both "zw and boss" individual dps is the raid dps... who cares who's on top really. If you wanted to be entirely fair the troub (or maybe chanters now with pom) would top everyparse... precise note and dissonate note are not really your dps btw.But go run your raids with one of each class. I'm sure you could clear content.... eventually. The rest of us will optimize our groups/raids. We'll see who spends more time wiping.To the OP... people leave out necro's because they offer no utility, are dependant on buffs for dps, and aren't t1 dps even with the optimal setup. oh and healers generally hate them.

skirge66

01-08-2009, 04:29 AM

though it's easy to state that zonewide parses are not important (whether true or untrue, practical or not), it simply is not the case. No matter what is said here or who says it, that simple fact remains. So long as it is important to a majority of players, and we can't serve it up and additionally provide little to no utility to a group or raid, we will continually be left out.any doubts to that simple fact, all you need to do is log in a necromancer try to find a raid guild willing to take you, see how long it takes to find a group. It will be as plain as the nose on your face.zonewide parses are important...why?...because the bulk of the population says it is, even if that is the only reason, so until such a time that our DPS is raised, or we are given enough utility to satifactorly assist the raid / group DPS. we simply will be left in the cold based on them.I'm a sad necromancer

Xil

01-08-2009, 07:33 AM

<cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow someone doesn't understand this game.Guilds don't run 4 chanters 4 bards and exclude useless classes so they can clear content they've cleared faster. They do it to maximize dps, survivability, versatility . and if you haven't noticed content is easier the more dps you have. (exception nexona but even there you need to meet a standard of dps to get the adds down). So sure old zones are easier if you maximize dps BUT SO IS NEW CONTENT!!!Once your raid gets your mythicals go and try Venril again with mythicals.... isn't dealing with one mana sacrifice a bit easier than dealing lets say 5-6 per fight? Example.... If you had an option to bring class A that is capable of 8k dps or class B that is capable of 7.5k dps while buffing those around him so they can can produce another 1k dps each (or conversely debuffing the mob so as to increase everyone elses dps). Which would you take? Oh and I think the people who post include an appropriate sample of the playing populatoin. In fact I would argue posters consist of people who play the game, understand the game, plan on playing the game for awhile yet, and want to make some improvements in their favorite classes, zones, questlines. Oh there is the occassional loser with delusions of granduer, who post garbage, who post from alt accounts to make themselves seem better than they are but those are rare and shouldnt' reflect on the rest of us <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />The reason people look at zonewides is some classes can spike really high dps every once in awhile (lifeburn is one such spell) and is not a true representation of what each person is bringing to the table. Zonewides help even this out. Both are important but zonewides are more representative and prevent people from trying the win the parse with ez-win buttons (bertox miracle + lifeburn + UT for example). Important than both "zw and boss" individual dps is the raid dps... who cares who's on top really. If you wanted to be entirely fair the troub (or maybe chanters now with pom) would top everyparse... precise note and dissonate note are not really your dps btw.But go run your raids with one of each class. I'm sure you could clear content.... eventually. The rest of us will optimize our groups/raids. We'll see who spends more time wiping.To the OP... people leave out necro's because they offer no utility, are dependant on buffs for dps, and aren't t1 dps even with the optimal setup. oh and healers generally hate them.</blockquote>Mewaye: (09:33) 10941303 | 19094.77 [Anep-Death Touch-30667]Sarxil 5202163 | 9078.82Anep 2651557 | 4627.50Upoka 1364049 | 2380.54Diztek 991671 | 1730.67Drunkette 655521 | 1144.02Kaflor 75385 | 131.569k for 10 solid minutes from a Necro with no Mythical....And there was no Lifeburning... once in a while huh?Learn2Play is seriously gonna become my sig if you guys don't knock this off...

StaticLex

01-08-2009, 07:40 AM

What makes EQ2 so incredibly different that people will leave another class out because they are behind on trash dps? Before I took a break, this game was so different. It was different because people played to enjoy the game and the mass amounts of content. Now it seems to be turning into the same [Removed for Content] fest that is WoW.I think the explanation is simple. The game has been dying for some time now and the majority of players left are the a n a l raid-types. These people play the game to crunch numbers and min/max everything they do. If SOE drops the ball on class balance for .02 seconds they will identify it (thanks largely to ACT) and exclude those classes. What's more, these people seem unwilling or unable to tone down this mentality when they go from raiding to grouping. I mean, you can't even get into a PUG anymore without some clown humping their ACT like it's the next best thing to sliced bread.This is not to say I don't mind slow killing groups, in fact I absolutely hate it and is part of the reason I chose the class that I did.. but I even I think things a getting a little ridiculous. Anyway, trying to play the game for fun when you're trapped between these [Removed for Content] parse-[Removed for Content] on one hand and a slow/incompetent dev team on the other makes the game basically unplayable, especially as summoner. Like I stated in the conjuror forum, this is why I cancelled my account and am riding out the last couple months. I'm pretty [Removed for Content] sure I can find something better to do than PAY to log in and repeatedly be told no for groups because they want melee DPS. It's Easy-Mode raiding for all intents and purposes.Heh. I have played this game since the original beta and have yet to raid in it, other than maybe a couple pickup raids over the years for AA I guess. I did raid in EQ1 for 4 of the 5 years that I played it though and I ocasionally tell the people in this game what a joke the raiding is in comparison. EQ2 is not raiding, EQ2 is pansy instance farming with a few groups. Everything in EQ1, that I raided anyway, was contested.. and required a dozen groups. THAT is raiding, not this carebear BS that the pompous nerds in this game are so proud of.Anyway, just a little side rant, but I do agree with you. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />

Xil

01-08-2009, 08:03 AM

<cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite><blockquote>What makes EQ2 so incredibly different that people will leave another class out because they are behind on trash dps? Before I took a break, this game was so different. It was different because people played to enjoy the game and the mass amounts of content. Now it seems to be turning into the same [Removed for Content] fest that is WoW.I think the explanation is simple. The game has been dying for some time now and the majority of players left are the a n a l raid-types. These people play the game to crunch numbers and min/max everything they do. If SOE drops the ball on class balance for .02 seconds they will identify it (thanks largely to ACT) and exclude those classes. What's more, these people seem unwilling or unable to tone down this mentality when they go from raiding to grouping. I mean, you can't even get into a PUG anymore without some clown humping their ACT like it's the next best thing to sliced bread.This is not to say I don't mind slow killing groups, in fact I absolutely hate it and is part of the reason I chose the class that I did.. but I even I think things a getting a little ridiculous. Anyway, trying to play the game for fun when you're trapped between these [Removed for Content] parse-[Removed for Content] on one hand and a slow/incompetent dev team on the other makes the game basically unplayable, especially as summoner. Like I stated in the conjuror forum, this is why I cancelled my account and am riding out the last couple months. I'm pretty [Removed for Content] sure I can find something better to do than PAY to log in and repeatedly be told no for groups because they want melee DPS. It's Easy-Mode raiding for all intents and purposes.Heh. I have played this game since the original beta and have yet to raid in it, other than maybe a couple pickup raids over the years for AA I guess. I did raid in EQ1 for 4 of the 5 years that I played it though and I ocasionally tell the people in this game what a joke the raiding is in comparison. EQ2 is not raiding, EQ2 is pansy instance farming with a few groups. Everything in EQ1, that I raided anyway, was contested.. and required a dozen groups. THAT is raiding, not this carebear BS that the pompous nerds in this game are so proud of.Anyway, just a little side rant, but I do agree with you. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>There's no Melee DPS in that parse I posted BTW =P Just a monstrous Necro, an SK and a Troub doing the majority of the DPS hehe.I fixate on ACT a bit but mostly because people kept tellin me I wasn't real DPS as a Necro. So I decided to see for myself. And as you can see from that parse. I'm actually DPS regardless of what so many think about summoners it's very possible to make a large difference on the parse.That and have you seen the rediculous amount of power regen our Teir 2 robe gives the group? It's comparible to an enchanter pre-Mythical. I'm liking that alot.If it wasn't for that robe and this Necro playing we'd have never beat the encounter. Even with a bard and an enchanter the healers were running out of power. I put the robe on thinking it might help a little. And for that entire 10 minutes our power stayed absolutley full. We coulda fought that mob for 10 hours without running out of power. The bard actually turned off his power regen during the fight because it was doing nothing.And not only that but the Druid died in the middle of the fight. I rezzed with necro rez and it took about 15 seconds for him to hit full power while in combat after the rez.Anyone who turns down a summoner is foolish to say the very least. And no I don't have my Mythical "yet". less than 2 weeks away though!!!

StaticLex

01-08-2009, 08:25 AM

I currently have the Jarsath robe, 5 T1 set pieces, 2 full sets of T2 jewelry, and the fabled epic. I am saving shards so I can get 5 of the T2 set pieces made at once, because I don't want to lose the puny T1 proc that I do have going for me right now.I had always planned on trying the T2 robe to see if it was any good, but I've heard more than a couple positive things about it lately so I will probably get on it pretty quick once I complete the T2 set (doing cheap pieces + shoulders first). One question I do still have about the T2 robe is if it procs both damage types regardless of the wearers class?Anyway, it's nice that you can do all this damage without the mythical or whatever, but the reality of MY situation is that I am turned down for groups before I can even try to put up the same numbers. Maybe my server is full of morons, maybe they all have tunnel vision for melee DPS, maybe there are a ton of coercers and dirges, I don't know. I am not about to beg or pay these people to let me in their group. It's the devs job to make sure there is parity among the classes, and as far as I'm concerned, to ensure that everyone else is aware of it.

Xil

01-08-2009, 08:46 AM

<cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite><blockquote>I currently have the Jarsath robe, 5 T1 set pieces, 2 full sets of T2 jewelry, and the fabled epic. I am saving shards so I can get 5 of the T2 set pieces made at once, because I don't want to lose the puny T1 proc that I do have going for me right now.I had always planned on trying the T2 robe to see if it was any good, but I've heard more than a couple positive things about it lately so I will probably get on it pretty quick once I complete the T2 set (doing cheap pieces + shoulders first). One question I do still have about the T2 robe is if it procs both damage types regardless of the wearers class?Anyway, it's nice that you can do all this damage without the mythical or whatever, but the reality of MY situation is that I am turned down for groups before I can even try to put up the same numbers. Maybe my server is full of morons, maybe they all have tunnel vision for melee DPS, maybe there are a ton of coercers and dirges, I don't know. I am not about to beg or pay these people to let me in their group. It's the devs job to make sure there is parity among the classes, and as far as I'm concerned, to ensure that everyone else is aware of it.</blockquote>Yeah the tier 1 set is garbage for the most part. But definatley get the robe. It makes you a chanter for power regen. You don't have Lich as a Conjy but that's basically how much power regen it offers the whole group. And Lich basically means the Necro can barely use all their power let alone run out. The robe shares that kind of power regen with the whole group. On that 10 minute parse I posted I went over it a few minutes ago and the robe proc not only did a ton of damage (it all shows as heat damage for me which I thought was odd) but it also actually regen'd more total power than my lich did during the fight.I use Shoulders/Boots/Leggs normally for the 3 piece bonus but I also have the robe now. I am seriously considering getting the gloves to see if the 5 piece bonus makes as much difference as the robe did. Because all I can say there after putting it to a real test is WOW. But I have pretty awesome gloves so it's gonna be a hard choice. The hat is most definatley out of the question because I have the hat from Hate that every caster drools themselves to sleep over.But stick with it man. All the gear I have can be attained by a casual player and I suggest you start your own groups. Learn to max out your damage as best you can and build groups that are freindly to mage (basically take a trouby not a dirge).I kid you not man Conjy can BLOW UP the parse in these TSO zones. There's just a ton of linked encounters and names with linked adds.People who only group with scouts are shooting themselves in the foot. No scout can do what we as summoners can do.oh and I don't use any of the jewelry. There are charms that drop that are much better and the older jewelry is still much better for our damage than the TSO stuff other than a couple pieces.<a href="mailto:Sarxil@Mistmoore">Sarxil@Mistmoore</a> Look at the stuff I use. All of it is just as fantastic for Conjy as it is for me and non of it is all that hard to get now. Pickup raids all the time for Hate and PR and the rest is all instance stuff. Definatley hit Anchor alot for the void earing I am wearing too. And if you can get a couple people to hit fear for a while until you get that choker from Terror.Oh and that symbol in my offhand slot does in fact work at a flat 10% increase to your spell damage and is not worked into the spell mod cap so don't listen to the bogus info about it. My drain life damage goes up to 3400 damage with the proc on. And the base damage on it is like 1750 without mods. Those same spell mods will double your DPS just like they have mine.

StaticLex

01-08-2009, 09:28 AM

Hmm, I checked out your profile and I thought you'd have better stuff. lol In reality it must not be that bad though because I think the most I've ever parsed on a fight was maybe 6 K. Anyway, this is mine, assuming the link works:<a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=424845206">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...terId=424845206</a>I had that Anathema cloak (until I got the set gear) and generally liked it, but I think I was over the useful BOE amount at the time so I switched. Right now I am at 65% crit with 650 BOE and a bit over 1100 INT solo. I have avoided alacrity items for the most part in favor of pet effects because all but a couple of my cast timers are bottomed out via AAs, and the ones that aren't cast in less than a second anyway.I thought about trying to get the choker but I found it hard to believe it would outdamage all of the effects from the set jewelery PLUS its bonuses. I think I will stick with the T2 gear plan for the immediate time being and see what that does for me. If I can pick up a choker I will probably do that as well seeing as how so many people swear by it.As far as the robe goes, it will be nice if it refills my power too. I am sitting at 10.3 K solo now but I spam so many spells during combat that I often manage to run myself out. Not sure why the robe was procing all heat damage but maybe it's bugged. It doesn't say proc heat if conj and poison if necro that I recall so I am assuming it's supposed to do both.

Xil

01-08-2009, 08:39 PM

<cite>StaticLex wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm, I checked out your profile and I thought you'd have better stuff. lol In reality it must not be that bad though because I think the most I've ever parsed on a fight was maybe 6 K. Anyway, this is mine, assuming the link works:<a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=424845206">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...terId=424845206</a>I had that Anathema cloak (until I got the set gear) and generally liked it, but I think I was over the useful BOE amount at the time so I switched. Right now I am at 65% crit with 650 BOE and a bit over 1100 INT solo. I have avoided alacrity items for the most part in favor of pet effects because all but a couple of my cast timers are bottomed out via AAs, and the ones that aren't cast in less than a second anyway.I thought about trying to get the choker but I found it hard to believe it would outdamage all of the effects from the set jewelery PLUS its bonuses. I think I will stick with the T2 gear plan for the immediate time being and see what that does for me. If I can pick up a choker I will probably do that as well seeing as how so many people swear by it.As far as the robe goes, it will be nice if it refills my power too. I am sitting at 10.3 K solo now but I spam so many spells during combat that I often manage to run myself out. Not sure why the robe was procing all heat damage but maybe it's bugged. It doesn't say proc heat if conj and poison if necro that I recall so I am assuming it's supposed to do both.</blockquote>Yeah you don't need much to parse well. People find it extremely hard to believe I can parse the way I do with this gear hense the rampant flaming.But there is really no item that can increase your DPS as much as the choker does for the neck slot. Every caster should have it. Base Damage mods are the absolute best upgrades we can get to spell damage.I found that the TSO jewelry at least for Necro is far short of the mark. Summoner need high spell crits and maxed Damage Mods to be successful DPS classes. 65% is good but 80% + is what you want to shoot for.The robe will keep you full just like Master Lich keeps Necro full. No doubt. You just need to keep your pet alive and attacking and yer whole group will think you are a chanter in a conjy costume.And it probably does both but because it's the same name and the heat comes in first it only shows as heat to ACT or something. It does a sizable amount of damage either way. Completely worth dropping the Royalty robe for it.And 6k isn't a bad mark in the gear you have. If you adjust a bit on your TSO jewelry stance you'll start seeing much higher numbers on single targets and increasingly higher numbers on AE targets. I can parse 12 to 15k on 4 + mob encounters and I only have 2 AE's. You got lots more and can parse almost twice that given the right bard in the group.

StaticLex

01-08-2009, 09:56 PM

Conjurors only have three AEs actually, but I guess even one more can add up to a nice chunk of damage. I do have a small racial one for being erudite too but it only hits four targets and is usuable every 5 minutes or something.

Enoa

01-08-2009, 10:07 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason people look at zonewides is some classes can spike really high dps every once in awhile (lifeburn is one such spell) and is not a true representation of what each person is bringing to the table. Zonewides help even this out. Both are important but zonewides are more representative and prevent people from trying the win the parse with ez-win buttons (bertox miracle + lifeburn + UT for example). Important than both "zw and boss" individual dps is the raid dps... who cares who's on top really. If you wanted to be entirely fair the troub (or maybe chanters now with pom) would top everyparse... precise note and dissonate note are not really your dps btw.</blockquote>Mewaye: (09:33) 10941303 | 19094.77 [Anep-Death Touch-30667]Sarxil 5202163 | 9078.82Anep 2651557 | 4627.50Upoka 1364049 | 2380.54Diztek 991671 | 1730.67Drunkette 655521 | 1144.02Kaflor 75385 | 131.569k for 10 solid minutes from a Necro with no Mythical....And there was no Lifeburning... once in a while huh?Learn2Play is seriously gonna become my sig if you guys don't knock this off...</blockquote>I don't think you even read my post. This thread is about zw vs boss parses and what they mean. If you had cast a bertox miracle before that 10 min fight would you're dps have been better ? yes by about 50%. would that be representative of the dps you can preform routinely... no.But thanks for turning another thread into a "Xil is better than everyone else thread"!!! You really add nothing to the forums tbh.

Xil

01-09-2009, 07:26 AM

<cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason people look at zonewides is some classes can spike really high dps every once in awhile (lifeburn is one such spell) and is not a true representation of what each person is bringing to the table. Zonewides help even this out. Both are important but zonewides are more representative and prevent people from trying the win the parse with ez-win buttons (bertox miracle + lifeburn + UT for example). Important than both "zw and boss" individual dps is the raid dps... who cares who's on top really. If you wanted to be entirely fair the troub (or maybe chanters now with pom) would top everyparse... precise note and dissonate note are not really your dps btw.</blockquote>Mewaye: (09:33) 10941303 | 19094.77 [Anep-Death Touch-30667]Sarxil 5202163 | 9078.82Anep 2651557 | 4627.50Upoka 1364049 | 2380.54Diztek 991671 | 1730.67Drunkette 655521 | 1144.02Kaflor 75385 | 131.569k for 10 solid minutes from a Necro with no Mythical....And there was no Lifeburning... once in a while huh?Learn2Play is seriously gonna become my sig if you guys don't knock this off...</blockquote>I don't think you even read my post. This thread is about zw vs boss parses and what they mean. If you had cast a bertox miracle before that 10 min fight would you're dps have been better ? yes by about 50%. would that be representative of the dps you can preform routinely... no.But thanks for turning another thread into a "Xil is better than everyone else thread"!!! You really add nothing to the forums tbh. </blockquote>Yes if it weren't for the fact that that miracle only lasts for 60 seconds you'd be absolutley right.However this parse was without using a miracle of any kind. I didn't even use crit consumables. That's just pure sustained Necro DPS. Which any necro in easily attainable gear is more than able to produce.But thank you for your lesson on what Bert's Miracles do not do. Very informative.

Brook

01-09-2009, 08:52 AM

<cite>Opti@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I will start by saying I have not raided in EQ2. I am only 74.Why is there so much concern over who gets the highest ZW parse? There was a thread not too long ago saying Necros suck because they can't top the ZW. What does it matter? Since when is DPS on trash so important you will leave a class out because they do better on bosses instead of garbage? Isn't the point of a raid to kill bosses? Is the trash so incredibly difficult that if it akes 3 seconds longer to kill it will wipe the raid because you brought a necro instead of an assassin? [Removed for Content]?I raided heavily in WoW. I was an officer and raid leader. After raids we looked over the WWS which is an online view of a parse basically, and the first thing we did was switch it to only boss fights. Why? Because trash is trash. It just simply does not matter. What makes EQ2 so incredibly different that people will leave another class out because they are behind on trash dps? Before I took a break, this game was so different. It was different because people played to enjoy the game and the mass amounts of content. Now it seems to be turning into the same [Removed for Content] fest that is WoW.</blockquote>You answered your own question in the last sentence.Most of the original dev team is gone, so we are left with the latest an greatest high school grads SOE could get on the payroll... ok so maybe most of them did get a GED.My biggest hope is that the changes they have been making to the game over the past couple of years gives them the reputation of knowing how to copy/paste things from other games and that follows them the rest of their career. So if another company needs a copy/paste person they are sure to be one of the best.... I'm not positive but have this theory that some of them are getting kickbacks from Blizzard... well it would appear that way anyhow. I need some coffee <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Enoa

01-09-2009, 09:55 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><cite>Xil wrote:</cite>Yes if it weren't for the fact that that miracle only lasts for 60 seconds you'd be absolutley right.However this parse was without using a miracle of any kind. I didn't even use crit consumables. That's just pure sustained Necro DPS. Which any necro in easily attainable gear is more than able to produce.But thank you for your lesson on what Bert's Miracles do not do. Very informative.</blockquote>/sigh. fine... the blessing lasts 10 mins. Kinda missed the point. Please keep derailing every thread into a Xil rules/ everyone else sucks thread. It's bound to get noticed soon.

Suraklin

01-17-2009, 05:42 PM

People who need to know how much DPS they're doing in an encounter or zonewide only need to know because they suffer from having a small johnson in my opinion. If the mob dies that is all that should matter as far as I'm concerned.

hellfire

01-17-2009, 05:55 PM

<cite>Suraklin wrote:</cite><blockquote>People who need to know how much DPS they're doing in an encounter or zonewide only need to know because they suffer from having a small johnson in my opinion. If the mob dies that is all that should matter as far as I'm concerned.</blockquote>Ahh so it wouldnt matter to you if a necro was doing 1100 dps because didnt understand proper spell casting order or is just afk and sent his pet verse someone that is doing 2500 dps because they play their necro to the fullest because they actually care......i see now gotcha.

Enoa

01-17-2009, 05:56 PM

<cite>Suraklin wrote:</cite><blockquote>People who need to know how much DPS they're doing in an encounter or zonewide only need to know because they suffer from having a small johnson in my opinion. If the mob dies that is all that should matter as far as I'm concerned.</blockquote>Or they are attempting to identify weaknesses and strengths to build the best and more effecient "team" for the best chance of success. Strongest team = better chance the mob will die. Not to mention identify class imbalances to help make this game more enjoyable. I care not who tops the parse but when my raid is doing 50k dps and the standard is 100k dps I want to know why. my small johnson has nothing to do with it.

Paleskinn

01-20-2009, 10:55 AM

Lets just say that thanks to ACT I've pretty much doubled my damage output. And the mobs die, twice as fast =)I'm not able to push 9k over 10 minutes, but well... I do what I can.

Zorastiz

01-20-2009, 11:03 AM

Why is ZW parse so important?It isn't!<div><a class="nav" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/#top"></a></div>

tbone7777

01-20-2009, 02:06 PM

ZW is important because (most) anyone can parse well when the conditions are right....all your biggest parsing spells, ca's are up and/or the encounter favors your particular class. Parsing well when a lot of your good stuff is down separates the great players from the average players and will be reflected in the ZW.

Xil

01-21-2009, 09:17 AM

<cite>tbone7777 wrote:</cite><blockquote>ZW is important because (most) anyone can parse well when the conditions are right....all your biggest parsing spells, ca's are up and/or the encounter favors your particular class. Parsing well when a lot of your good stuff is down separates the great players from the average players and will be reflected in the ZW. </blockquote>That may be true but the conditions to allow sustained parsing must also be present at all times regardless of player skill otherwise the zonewide doesn't accurately show the effectiveness of one architype over the other.If you build a group or a raid to support mainly scout DPS the mage will fall off the zonewide. If you build the raid to support mainly mage DPS the scouts drop off the zone wide.The build affects the zonewide more than any amount of player skill. And if you build the raid or group right no one's "good stuff" stays down for very long.

Carthington

01-22-2009, 03:58 PM

Just give me my troub with an upbeat tempo and a templar and I'm fine....a 10 minute 9k parse is just one fight though, if you would've showed an entire night of a 9k zonewide parse then it means something.

Cly

01-22-2009, 04:41 PM

<cite>Carthington wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just give me my troub with an upbeat tempo and a templar and I'm fine....a 10 minute 9k parse is just one fight though, if you would've showed an entire night of a 9k zonewide parse then it means something.</blockquote>Yes, would mean you could have almost beaten the bards, but you are already a better damager than the half-afk templar...It makes me cry everyday seeing someone here proudly posting a 6k-parse or something, and at the same time seeing in my raidparse that that would be place 22 in the dps-list (with two people being afk)...

Kleitos

01-23-2009, 07:25 AM

Hmm, raiding is alot more then 'boss' fights or there would just be 'boss' fights right?Personally I wouldn't care if my raid could burn down the 'boss' in 9min or 5 min if each trash mob before it took 2 minutes to kill compared to 20-30 seconds each.In general there are alot more trash then bosses and the trash is there just to take up time and slow you down so you have to play and pay more to get where you want to go. Unless your goal is to hang around in raid instances admiring the scenery I guess.Lets do some theoryraiding:30 trash mobs1 bossRaid1 kills a trash in 20 seconds consistantlyRaid2 kills a trash in 60 seconds consistantly (trash isn't important right, so 4-6 people just auto follow some others and watch TV)Raid1 cleared all the trash in 600 seconds (10 min) + movement timeRaid2 cleared all the trash in 1800 seconds (30 min) + movement timeRaid1 kills the boss in 5 minRaid2 kills the boss in 3 min (for them only bosses count so here is where they really perform)Total time:Raid1 15minRaid2 33minZW Parse Raid1 > Raid2As you can see Raid1 would be able to do the zone twice before Raid2 is finished with one zone.