New Robe = New Love [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Xil

01-12-2009, 09:13 PM

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote>We can all thank Sarxil here for bringing the only shiny spot in TSO to an end. Thanks buddy!!</blockquote>Or maybe it's not broken? Considering how many items in the game have incorrect tooltips, it's just as likley they put 2.0 times per minute instead of 9% chance.But if it is indeed broken and you are advocating the benefit of keeping it under the radar... what's that say about you?That's like saying "screw you pal" to the people who exploited the plat dupe bug because you didn't get a chance to dupe plat.Pretty sad.</blockquote>actually says that a class that is horribly overlooked for fixes finally gets a bone, albeit a BROKEN one and you have to shout it out to the world that its not. There isn't a single item in the game that effects dumbfire pets but this one, they aren't supposed to. This item is also procc'in at a VERY abnormal rate, so yea it was nice to actually have something that put us where we should be but some people just don't get it and have to announce it to the devs. We could have had this for maybe a while longer than this but now will prob go into LU 51 or sooner update. Thanks again.</blockquote>And you are still advocating the use of a broken mechanic as a good thing... And better yet that hiding that mechanic from the devs is also a good thing.They call that exploitation. But I have a feeling you'll be supprised on this one.</blockquote>hmmm duping plat = exploitusing item that's broken = not exploiting. Or did you forget about the broken praetors guard proc rate. I guess the thousands of mages who were using that for the time it was broken are exploiters and should have been banned. The fact that an item is broken, and people using it, is not inherently exploiting. Does it effect some permanent change to your character like duping plat? No, just a small matter of enjoyment till it gets fixed, which genius, you have accelerated greatly. You're nothing but a forum troll who doesn't know a lick about being a summoner and spouts off the opposite every chance you get. So again, on behalf of the summoner community we thank you!</blockquote>However attempting to advocate hiding a broken mechanic from the developers is explotiation. And it's highly unlikely they were not aware of it before now. It's a pretty noticable difference that doesn't require ACT to recognize.It acts like PoM as far as what procs it so I don't think that part is broken at any rate. It statically procs at a 10% chance so it's much more likely they labled it incorrectly. If it were actually a 2.0 times per minute proc it would be completely useless at that low damage and mana proc. And I think the class devs and the dev who worked on the summoner set would recognize right away that a tiny low hit rate proc at the expense of all other stats would be a waste of an equipment slot for a class that already requires more skill than any other to DPS well.And you're right I know nothing about summoner other than how to make Mythical summoners who can't adapt to changes in game mechanics look bad in every aspect of how the class performs. Other than that I know pretty much nothing.

hellfire

01-12-2009, 09:34 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote>We can all thank Sarxil here for bringing the only shiny spot in TSO to an end. Thanks buddy!!</blockquote>Or maybe it's not broken? Considering how many items in the game have incorrect tooltips, it's just as likley they put 2.0 times per minute instead of 9% chance.But if it is indeed broken and you are advocating the benefit of keeping it under the radar... what's that say about you?That's like saying "screw you pal" to the people who exploited the plat dupe bug because you didn't get a chance to dupe plat.Pretty sad.</blockquote>actually says that a class that is horribly overlooked for fixes finally gets a bone, albeit a BROKEN one and you have to shout it out to the world that its not. There isn't a single item in the game that effects dumbfire pets but this one, they aren't supposed to. This item is also procc'in at a VERY abnormal rate, so yea it was nice to actually have something that put us where we should be but some people just don't get it and have to announce it to the devs. We could have had this for maybe a while longer than this but now will prob go into LU 51 or sooner update. Thanks again.</blockquote>And you are still advocating the use of a broken mechanic as a good thing... And better yet that hiding that mechanic from the devs is also a good thing.They call that exploitation. But I have a feeling you'll be supprised on this one.</blockquote>hmmm duping plat = exploitusing item that's broken = not exploiting. Or did you forget about the broken praetors guard proc rate. I guess the thousands of mages who were using that for the time it was broken are exploiters and should have been banned. The fact that an item is broken, and people using it, is not inherently exploiting. Does it effect some permanent change to your character like duping plat? No, just a small matter of enjoyment till it gets fixed, which genius, you have accelerated greatly. You're nothing but a forum troll who doesn't know a lick about being a summoner and spouts off the opposite every chance you get. So again, on behalf of the summoner community we thank you!</blockquote>However attempting to advocate hiding a broken mechanic from the developers is explotiation. And it's highly unlikely they were not aware of it before now. It's a pretty noticable difference that doesn't require ACT to recognize.It acts like PoM as far as what procs it so I don't think that part is broken at any rate. It statically procs at a 10% chance so it's much more likely they labled it incorrectly. If it were actually a 2.0 times per minute proc it would be completely useless at that low damage and mana proc. And I think the class devs and the dev who worked on the summoner set would recognize right away that a tiny low hit rate proc at the expense of all other stats would be a waste of an equipment slot for a class that already requires more skill than any other to DPS well.And you're right I know nothing about summoner other than how to make Mythical summoners who can't adapt to changes in game mechanics look bad in every aspect of how the class performs. Other than that I know pretty much nothing.</blockquote>umm 10 pct equates 2* a minIm sorry but what changes in what game mechanics are you talking about?You have done nothing but try to belittle people as far as i can tell and preety much a troll imo....want to have a intelligent convo come over to eq2flames.know what i have seen your numbers and i would smoke you....your raw dps is not impressive so please stop puffing out your chest as someone that is above all......... because i know of non mythicaled that is just as good.stop with the high and might routine because im sure most if not all dont care for it.

Xil

01-12-2009, 09:53 PM

<cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote>We can all thank Sarxil here for bringing the only shiny spot in TSO to an end. Thanks buddy!!</blockquote>Or maybe it's not broken? Considering how many items in the game have incorrect tooltips, it's just as likley they put 2.0 times per minute instead of 9% chance.But if it is indeed broken and you are advocating the benefit of keeping it under the radar... what's that say about you?That's like saying "screw you pal" to the people who exploited the plat dupe bug because you didn't get a chance to dupe plat.Pretty sad.</blockquote>actually says that a class that is horribly overlooked for fixes finally gets a bone, albeit a BROKEN one and you have to shout it out to the world that its not. There isn't a single item in the game that effects dumbfire pets but this one, they aren't supposed to. This item is also procc'in at a VERY abnormal rate, so yea it was nice to actually have something that put us where we should be but some people just don't get it and have to announce it to the devs. We could have had this for maybe a while longer than this but now will prob go into LU 51 or sooner update. Thanks again.</blockquote>And you are still advocating the use of a broken mechanic as a good thing... And better yet that hiding that mechanic from the devs is also a good thing.They call that exploitation. But I have a feeling you'll be supprised on this one.</blockquote>hmmm duping plat = exploitusing item that's broken = not exploiting. Or did you forget about the broken praetors guard proc rate. I guess the thousands of mages who were using that for the time it was broken are exploiters and should have been banned. The fact that an item is broken, and people using it, is not inherently exploiting. Does it effect some permanent change to your character like duping plat? No, just a small matter of enjoyment till it gets fixed, which genius, you have accelerated greatly. You're nothing but a forum troll who doesn't know a lick about being a summoner and spouts off the opposite every chance you get. So again, on behalf of the summoner community we thank you!</blockquote>However attempting to advocate hiding a broken mechanic from the developers is explotiation. And it's highly unlikely they were not aware of it before now. It's a pretty noticable difference that doesn't require ACT to recognize.It acts like PoM as far as what procs it so I don't think that part is broken at any rate. It statically procs at a 10% chance so it's much more likely they labled it incorrectly. If it were actually a 2.0 times per minute proc it would be completely useless at that low damage and mana proc. And I think the class devs and the dev who worked on the summoner set would recognize right away that a tiny low hit rate proc at the expense of all other stats would be a waste of an equipment slot for a class that already requires more skill than any other to DPS well.And you're right I know nothing about summoner other than how to make Mythical summoners who can't adapt to changes in game mechanics look bad in every aspect of how the class performs. Other than that I know pretty much nothing.</blockquote>umm 10 pct equates 2* a minIm sorry but what changes in what game mechanics are you talking about?You have done nothing but try to belittle people as far as i can tell and preety much a troll imo....want to have a intelligent convo come over to eq2flames.know what i have seen your numbers and i would smoke you....your raw dps is not impressive so please stop puffing out your chest as someone that is above all......... because i know of non mythicaled that is just as good.stop with the high and might routine because im sure most if not all dont care for it.</blockquote>So you're saying you can do even better than I do with Necro and yet you claim I am lying about how well we can DPS?Who's the troll? Maybe we should look up the term Forum Troll and see which category the people who attack others repeatedly whenever someone posts something they don't care for. "This is my forum how dare you post on it"... is pretty much what you and your EQ2flames buddies keep saying.Here's an idea why don't you go back to eq2flames and take them with you. There you can troll and flame people all day long and no one cares.I don't need you or anyone else to validate what I clearly see every single time I log in. Or what anyone who's ever played with me sees. You yourself say you can "smoke me" so... why the hell would you argue in favor of Necro being worthless DPS?Unless of course you are just attacking me directly for no other reason that to cause drama in which case you have fallen into the forum troll category and are no longer worth responding to.

Gipper

01-12-2009, 09:57 PM

I play regularly with Sarxil. He knows what he's talking about.

hellfire

01-12-2009, 09:58 PM

And i just tested this with mage pet.My pet spells hit 100 timesProc from robe hit 152 timesSo that means with 3 effects for each proc will bring it down to 50 ish actuall procsNow take pet with dots id say he let off 75 spell of those 100 hitsSo it looks like 66 pct pure proc chanceThis was over 1.5 mins.....so roughly 35 times a min......or 75-80 normalized pct chance to proc.This is just rough guesstimate but close i think.

hellfire

01-12-2009, 10:00 PM

<cite>Gipper@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>I play regularly with Sarxil. He knows what he's talking about.</blockquote>no he doesnt

Xil

01-12-2009, 10:10 PM

<cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>And i just tested this with mage pet.My pet spells hit 100 timesProc from robe hit 152 timesSo that means with 3 effects for each proc will bring it down to 50 ish actuall procsNow take pet with dots id say he let off 75 spell of those 100 hitsSo it looks like 66 pct pure proc chanceThis was over 1.5 mins.....so roughly 35 times a min......or 75-80 normalized pct chance to proc.This is just rough guesstimate but close i think.</blockquote>Let's see the where ACT shows this. I've put all 3 pets on the wall and never seen it go over a 10 to 15% proc to hits ratio. Even with proc increasing buffs and a linked encounter the mage pet only showed a 28% proc rate and that was without breaking each target down.

Xil

01-12-2009, 10:11 PM

<cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gipper@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>I play regularly with Sarxil. He knows what he's talking about.</blockquote>no he doesnt</blockquote>And don't talk down to Klive she's been here forever.

hellfire

01-13-2009, 02:15 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gipper@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>I play regularly with Sarxil. He knows what he's talking about.</blockquote>no he doesnt</blockquote>And don't talk down to Klive she's been here forever.</blockquote>I didnt talk down to anyone ...she stated her opinion andi told her she was wrong.Im sure ive been around forever and it means nothing if i was still wrong but since im not me being here forever means everything.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I don't need you or anyone else to validate what I clearly see every single time I log in. Or what anyone who's ever played with me sees. You yourself say you can "smoke me" so... why the hell would you argue in favor of Necro being worthless DPS?And ill answer that.At end game with min/max of char/group set up as well as takeing into account all encounters,summoners with necros more so are behind the curve in regards to dps when matched up against a wizard/warlock/ranger/assasin.......there is no reason to really bring a necro or conj in regards to pure dps also wizards have ton more utility.Chanters...both illy and corcer have same if not better in some cases dps and a boat load more utility........there is no reason to bring a necro or conj in regards to pure dps or utilityRouges: both are also in our dps neighborhood but as in case4 of chanters bring very worthwhile utility that trumps summoners.........there is no reason to bring a necro or conj in regards to pure dps or utility.So yeah necro are preety much useless as well as conj in regards to dps and in the cases where we are very good generally it isnt enough in terms of makeing a raid better as a whole.Now there are exceptions to this of corse ill point to my self....but still doesnt change if building a raid force summoners would not be on it if designing optimul set up........ we are replaceable......with out a second thought.

hellfire

01-13-2009, 02:20 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>And i just tested this with mage pet.My pet spells hit 100 timesProc from robe hit 152 timesSo that means with 3 effects for each proc will bring it down to 50 ish actuall procsNow take pet with dots id say he let off 75 spell of those 100 hitsSo it looks like 66 pct pure proc chanceThis was over 1.5 mins.....so roughly 35 times a min......or 75-80 normalized pct chance to proc.This is just rough guesstimate but close i think.</blockquote>Let's see the where ACT shows this. I've put all 3 pets on the wall and never seen it go over a 10 to 15% proc to hits ratio. Even with proc increasing buffs and a linked encounter the mage pet only showed a 28% proc rate and that was without breaking each target down.</blockquote>Sure.......and dont forget in a raid setting with max debuffs everything will be enhanced.These are against the training dummy.<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/bigdawgz/brokenproc2.jpg" width="1023" height="285" /><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/bigdawgz/brokenproc1.jpg" width="1024" height="286" />

Xil

01-13-2009, 03:16 AM

Not sure how you got those numbers... I put 10 solid minutes into 3 mobs and didn't get that kind of return...

Tsunai

01-13-2009, 05:59 AM

This topic seems to keep veering off track from the actual subject. Let's try to keep from doing this by staying on topic, staying constructive, and avoid making comments directly to other posters. Agree, Disagree, make your point, or defend your point; whichever you do be sure it is about the topic of the thread.

Xil

01-13-2009, 09:36 AM

Here's the robe at 25 minutes of solid procing with Mage pet: This is with a Dirge and Troubador and an Illy<h4>Palace of Ferzhul - [1] 1:39:54 AM | All - [25:32] 2:46:08 AM | Xil | Outgoing Damage</h4><table cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2" width="100%"><tbody><tr><th>Type</th><th>Damage</th><th>Ext DPS</th><th>Average</th><th>Min Hit</th><th>Max Hit</th><th>Resist</th><th>Hits</th><th>CritHits</th><th>Swings</th><th>To Hit %</th><th>Crit %</th></tr><tr><td>All</td><td>8818563</td><td>5756.24</td><td>623.13</td><td>0</td><td>9078</td><td>All</td><td>14152</td><td>5787</td><td>14932</td><td>94.78</td><td>41%</td></tr><tr><td>Potent Essence Infusion</td><td>1570395</td><td>1025.06</td><td>449.97</td><td>0</td><td>717</td><td>heat</td><td>3490</td><td>742</td><td>3959</td><td>88.15</td><td>21%</td></tr><tr><td>Pandemic</td><td>621850</td><td>405.91</td><td>562.25</td><td>283</td><td>1328</td><td>disease</td><td>1106</td><td>856</td><td>1144</td><td>96.68</td><td>77%</td></tr><tr><td>Bloodcoil</td><td>552857</td><td>360.87</td><td>798.93</td><td>333</td><td>3400</td><td>disease</td><td>692</td><td>528</td><td>692</td><td>100.00</td><td>76%</td></tr><tr><td>Dissonant Note</td><td>492379</td><td>321.40</td><td>617.02</td><td>319</td><td>1188</td><td>mental</td><td>798</td><td>330</td><td>798</td><td>100.00</td><td>41%</td></tr><tr><td>Precise Note</td><td>416022</td><td>271.55</td><td>744.23</td><td>455</td><td>1355</td><td>mental</td><td>559</td><td>237</td><td>559</td><td>100.00</td><td>42%</td></tr><tr><td>Grim Lifetap</td><td>405509</td><td>264.69</td><td>1196.19</td><td>743</td><td>2124</td><td>heat</td><td>339</td><td>84</td><td>357</td><td>94.96</td><td>25%</td></tr><tr><td>Lich's Siphoning</td><td>394297</td><td>257.37</td><td>560.08</td><td>374</td><td>797</td><td>disease</td><td>704</td><td>503</td><td>704</td><td>100.00</td><td>71%</td></tr><tr><td>Grim Wave</td><td>379185</td><td>247.51</td><td>274.18</td><td>154</td><td>551</td><td>poison</td><td>1383</td><td>309</td><td>1404</td><td>98.50</td><td>22%</td></tr><tr><td>Bloodcloud</td><td>339410</td><td>221.55</td><td>3263.56</td><td>2186</td><td>4537</td><td>disease</td><td>104</td><td>88</td><td>122</td><td>85.25</td><td>85%</td></tr><tr><td>Dynamism</td><td>332512</td><td>217.04</td><td>859.20</td><td>544</td><td>1368</td><td>mental</td><td>387</td><td>282</td><td>387</td><td>100.00</td><td>73%</td></tr><tr><td>Soulrot</td><td>331298</td><td>216.25</td><td>579.19</td><td>199</td><td>2126</td><td>disease</td><td>572</td><td>452</td><td>592</td><td>96.62</td><td>79%</td></tr><tr><td>Grim Devastation</td><td>315314</td><td>205.82</td><td>630.63</td><td>347</td><td>1415</td><td>poison</td><td>500</td><td>70</td><td>504</td><td>99.21</td><td>14%</td></tr><tr><td>Drain Life</td><td>312046</td><td>203.69</td><td>4274.60</td><td>2721</td><td>6152</td><td>disease</td><td>73</td><td>51</td><td>83</td><td>87.95</td><td>70%</td></tr><tr><td>Grim Embrace</td><td>307842</td><td>200.94</td><td>572.20</td><td>225</td><td>2247</td><td>poison</td><td>538</td><td>109</td><td>544</td><td>98.90</td><td>20%</td></tr><tr><td>Grim Bolt</td><td>275837</td><td>180.05</td><td>1393.12</td><td>795</td><td>2548</td><td>poison</td><td>198</td><td>48</td><td>205</td><td>96.59</td><td>24%</td></tr><tr><td>Grim Distortion</td><td>211065</td><td>137.77</td><td>2777.17</td><td>1637</td><td>4310</td><td>poison</td><td>76</td><td>28</td><td>78</td><td>97.44</td><td>37%</td></tr><tr><td>Peace of Mind</td><td>206369</td><td>134.71</td><td>856.30</td><td>477</td><td>1709</td><td>mental</td><td>241</td><td>97</td><td>290</td><td>83.10</td><td>40%</td></tr><tr><td>Greater Void Bane</td><td>180480</td><td>117.81</td><td>2098.61</td><td>785</td><td>3344</td><td>mental</td><td>86</td><td>54</td><td>110</td><td>78.18</td><td>63%</td></tr><tr><td>Consume</td><td>130846</td><td>85.41</td><td>991.26</td><td>615</td><td>1334</td><td>disease</td><td>132</td><td>93</td><td>132</td><td>100.00</td><td>70%</td></tr><tr><td>Obsidian Chaos</td><td>124122</td><td>81.02</td><td>165.72</td><td>3</td><td>1977</td><td>mental</td><td>749</td><td>552</td><td>749</td><td>100.00</td><td>74%</td></tr><tr><td>Clawing of the Soul</td><td>112842</td><td>73.66</td><td>910.02</td><td>680</td><td>1375</td><td>disease</td><td>124</td><td>27</td><td>124</td><td>100.00</td><td>22%</td></tr><tr><td>Minion's Mark</td><td>103273</td><td>67.41</td><td>1229.44</td><td>859</td><td>2010</td><td>magic</td><td>84</td><td>19</td><td>89</td><td>94.38</td><td>23%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Potent Essence Infusion</td><td>90802</td><td>59.27</td><td>391.39</td><td>350</td><td>472</td><td>heat</td><td>232</td><td>0</td><td>232</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>Lifeburn</td><td>86640</td><td>56.55</td><td>8664.00</td><td>8664</td><td>8664</td><td>focus</td><td>10</td><td>0</td><td>10</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>Master's Strike</td><td>76208</td><td>49.74</td><td>6350.67</td><td>4191</td><td>9078</td><td>magic</td><td>12</td><td>10</td><td>17</td><td>70.59</td><td>83%</td></tr><tr><td>Praetor's Strike</td><td>71518</td><td>46.68</td><td>1117.47</td><td>806</td><td>1658</td><td>mental</td><td>64</td><td>37</td><td>81</td><td>79.01</td><td>58%</td></tr><tr><td>grave disturbance's Potent Essence Infusion</td><td>68530</td><td>44.73</td><td>389.38</td><td>350</td><td>472</td><td>heat</td><td>176</td><td>0</td><td>176</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>Poisonous Blast</td><td>53409</td><td>34.86</td><td>373.49</td><td>54</td><td>1479</td><td>poison</td><td>143</td><td>101</td><td>156</td><td>91.67</td><td>71%</td></tr><tr><td>Bewilderment</td><td>36766</td><td>24.00</td><td>3342.36</td><td>2420</td><td>4674</td><td>magic</td><td>11</td><td>8</td><td>11</td><td>100.00</td><td>73%</td></tr><tr><td>Vampire Bats</td><td>33998</td><td>22.19</td><td>548.35</td><td>222</td><td>1923</td><td>piercing</td><td>62</td><td>48</td><td>63</td><td>98.41</td><td>77%</td></tr><tr><td>grave disturbance's Rapid Decay</td><td>30849</td><td>20.14</td><td>350.56</td><td>252</td><td>536</td><td>disease</td><td>88</td><td>0</td><td>88</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>imp pack</td><td>26018</td><td>16.98</td><td>215.02</td><td>148</td><td>305</td><td>crushing</td><td>121</td><td>0</td><td>121</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Grim Devastation</td><td>25049</td><td>16.35</td><td>521.85</td><td>369</td><td>717</td><td>poison</td><td>48</td><td>0</td><td>48</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Grim Lifetap</td><td>19655</td><td>12.83</td><td>935.95</td><td>757</td><td>1152</td><td>heat</td><td>21</td><td>0</td><td>21</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Grim Wave</td><td>18877</td><td>12.32</td><td>224.73</td><td>164</td><td>316</td><td>poison</td><td>84</td><td>0</td><td>84</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>Dooming Darkness</td><td>12417</td><td>8.11</td><td>376.27</td><td>230</td><td>498</td><td>disease</td><td>33</td><td>22</td><td>35</td><td>94.29</td><td>67%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Grim Embrace</td><td>9323</td><td>6.09</td><td>332.96</td><td>235</td><td>423</td><td>poison</td><td>28</td><td>0</td><td>28</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>imp pack's Potent Essence Infusion</td><td>9145</td><td>5.97</td><td>381.04</td><td>350</td><td>467</td><td>heat</td><td>24</td><td>0</td><td>24</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Grim Bolt</td><td>8419</td><td>5.50</td><td>841.90</td><td>681</td><td>986</td><td>poison</td><td>10</td><td>0</td><td>10</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>grave disturbance</td><td>7745</td><td>5.06</td><td>368.81</td><td>254</td><td>479</td><td>disease</td><td>21</td><td>0</td><td>21</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Grim Distortion</td><td>7669</td><td>5.01</td><td>1533.80</td><td>1260</td><td>2010</td><td>poison</td><td>5</td><td>0</td><td>5</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Invocation</td><td>2436</td><td>1.59</td><td>487.20</td><td>444</td><td>538</td><td>divine</td><td>5</td><td>0</td><td>5</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde</td><td>2405</td><td>1.57</td><td>343.57</td><td>195</td><td>561</td><td>piercing</td><td>7</td><td>0</td><td>7</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>Fire Breath</td><td>2266</td><td>1.48</td><td>755.33</td><td>684</td><td>791</td><td>heat</td><td>3</td><td>2</td><td>5</td><td>60.00</td><td>67%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Graven Assault</td><td>1354</td><td>0.88</td><td>677.00</td><td>587</td><td>767</td><td>disease</td><td>2</td><td>0</td><td>2</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Cleansing Fire</td><td>660</td><td>0.43</td><td>132.00</td><td>125</td><td>143</td><td>heat</td><td>5</td><td>0</td><td>5</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Litany of Torment</td><td>655</td><td>0.43</td><td>327.50</td><td>296</td><td>359</td><td>divine</td><td>2</td><td>0</td><td>2</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>Exposed Noxious</td><td>0</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>disease</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>43</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td></tr><tr><td>Siphoning of Souls</td><td>0</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>disease</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>2</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td></tr><tr><td>Killing</td><td>0</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>Death</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>12</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td></tr><tr><td>Dust Storm</td><td>0</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>heat</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>4</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td></tr></tbody></table>It proc'd about 2195.5 times split 3 ways. (this is after adding all occurances of the tick and splitting them in half)So over a 25 minute fight it proc'd about 731.833~ times give or take the 100 or so that were direct target from dumbfires rather than the mage pet itself.Seems the proc rate was between 15 and 18% over a 25 minute period with a Dirge increasing procs. And as it should be about 10% chance to proc on all types of damage that seems about right? And a far cry from 60-80%...And even fully buffed for spell damage the proc levels out at about 1k DPS which equates to a bit less than half that in power regen. So I'd say the power regen is probably too high but the damage added really isn't signifigant enough to warrent the effect as being "broken".This is supposed to be somewhat of a center piece to the entire summoner set. It's a much needed boost to the DPS of both our pets and our dumbfires (if anything it's lower than it should be). The power regen should probably be trimmed back a bit but I think as far as Utility goes it doesn't hurt to give summoners power regen along the lines of Enchanters. It's not like we have anything else to offer at the moment aside from DPS... which is also a bit shy of the mark.Technically the effect might be out of line from its literal description but in practical application it offers a nice bandaid to the currect lack of summoner advancement in TSO. And really it's not even a very good bandaid.Should it be fixed? Eventually.Is there a valid reason other than semantics it be fixed before Summoner recieve the promised Overhaul? Not at all.

Sabutai

01-13-2009, 12:25 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's the robe at 25 minutes of solid procing with Mage pet: This is with a Dirge and Troubador and an Illy<h4>Palace of Ferzhul - [1] 1:39:54 AM | All - [25:32] 2:46:08 AM | Xil | Outgoing Damage</h4><table cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2" width="100%"><tbody><tr><th>Type</th><th>Damage</th><th>Ext DPS</th><th>Average</th><th>Min Hit</th><th>Max Hit</th><th>Resist</th><th>Hits</th><th>CritHits</th><th>Swings</th><th>To Hit %</th><th>Crit %</th></tr><tr><td>All</td><td>8818563</td><td>5756.24</td><td>623.13</td><td>0</td><td>9078</td><td>All</td><td>14152</td><td>5787</td><td>14932</td><td>94.78</td><td>41%</td></tr><tr><td>Potent Essence Infusion</td><td>1570395</td><td>1025.06</td><td>449.97</td><td>0</td><td>717</td><td>heat</td><td>3490</td><td>742</td><td>3959</td><td>88.15</td><td>21%</td></tr><tr><td>Pandemic</td><td>621850</td><td>405.91</td><td>562.25</td><td>283</td><td>1328</td><td>disease</td><td>1106</td><td>856</td><td>1144</td><td>96.68</td><td>77%</td></tr><tr><td>Bloodcoil</td><td>552857</td><td>360.87</td><td>798.93</td><td>333</td><td>3400</td><td>disease</td><td>692</td><td>528</td><td>692</td><td>100.00</td><td>76%</td></tr><tr><td>Dissonant Note</td><td>492379</td><td>321.40</td><td>617.02</td><td>319</td><td>1188</td><td>mental</td><td>798</td><td>330</td><td>798</td><td>100.00</td><td>41%</td></tr><tr><td>Precise Note</td><td>416022</td><td>271.55</td><td>744.23</td><td>455</td><td>1355</td><td>mental</td><td>559</td><td>237</td><td>559</td><td>100.00</td><td>42%</td></tr><tr><td>Grim Lifetap</td><td>405509</td><td>264.69</td><td>1196.19</td><td>743</td><td>2124</td><td>heat</td><td>339</td><td>84</td><td>357</td><td>94.96</td><td>25%</td></tr><tr><td>Lich's Siphoning</td><td>394297</td><td>257.37</td><td>560.08</td><td>374</td><td>797</td><td>disease</td><td>704</td><td>503</td><td>704</td><td>100.00</td><td>71%</td></tr><tr><td>Grim Wave</td><td>379185</td><td>247.51</td><td>274.18</td><td>154</td><td>551</td><td>poison</td><td>1383</td><td>309</td><td>1404</td><td>98.50</td><td>22%</td></tr><tr><td>Bloodcloud</td><td>339410</td><td>221.55</td><td>3263.56</td><td>2186</td><td>4537</td><td>disease</td><td>104</td><td>88</td><td>122</td><td>85.25</td><td>85%</td></tr><tr><td>Dynamism</td><td>332512</td><td>217.04</td><td>859.20</td><td>544</td><td>1368</td><td>mental</td><td>387</td><td>282</td><td>387</td><td>100.00</td><td>73%</td></tr><tr><td>Soulrot</td><td>331298</td><td>216.25</td><td>579.19</td><td>199</td><td>2126</td><td>disease</td><td>572</td><td>452</td><td>592</td><td>96.62</td><td>79%</td></tr><tr><td>Grim Devastation</td><td>315314</td><td>205.82</td><td>630.63</td><td>347</td><td>1415</td><td>poison</td><td>500</td><td>70</td><td>504</td><td>99.21</td><td>14%</td></tr><tr><td>Drain Life</td><td>312046</td><td>203.69</td><td>4274.60</td><td>2721</td><td>6152</td><td>disease</td><td>73</td><td>51</td><td>83</td><td>87.95</td><td>70%</td></tr><tr><td>Grim Embrace</td><td>307842</td><td>200.94</td><td>572.20</td><td>225</td><td>2247</td><td>poison</td><td>538</td><td>109</td><td>544</td><td>98.90</td><td>20%</td></tr><tr><td>Grim Bolt</td><td>275837</td><td>180.05</td><td>1393.12</td><td>795</td><td>2548</td><td>poison</td><td>198</td><td>48</td><td>205</td><td>96.59</td><td>24%</td></tr><tr><td>Grim Distortion</td><td>211065</td><td>137.77</td><td>2777.17</td><td>1637</td><td>4310</td><td>poison</td><td>76</td><td>28</td><td>78</td><td>97.44</td><td>37%</td></tr><tr><td>Peace of Mind</td><td>206369</td><td>134.71</td><td>856.30</td><td>477</td><td>1709</td><td>mental</td><td>241</td><td>97</td><td>290</td><td>83.10</td><td>40%</td></tr><tr><td>Greater Void Bane</td><td>180480</td><td>117.81</td><td>2098.61</td><td>785</td><td>3344</td><td>mental</td><td>86</td><td>54</td><td>110</td><td>78.18</td><td>63%</td></tr><tr><td>Consume</td><td>130846</td><td>85.41</td><td>991.26</td><td>615</td><td>1334</td><td>disease</td><td>132</td><td>93</td><td>132</td><td>100.00</td><td>70%</td></tr><tr><td>Obsidian Chaos</td><td>124122</td><td>81.02</td><td>165.72</td><td>3</td><td>1977</td><td>mental</td><td>749</td><td>552</td><td>749</td><td>100.00</td><td>74%</td></tr><tr><td>Clawing of the Soul</td><td>112842</td><td>73.66</td><td>910.02</td><td>680</td><td>1375</td><td>disease</td><td>124</td><td>27</td><td>124</td><td>100.00</td><td>22%</td></tr><tr><td>Minion's Mark</td><td>103273</td><td>67.41</td><td>1229.44</td><td>859</td><td>2010</td><td>magic</td><td>84</td><td>19</td><td>89</td><td>94.38</td><td>23%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Potent Essence Infusion</td><td>90802</td><td>59.27</td><td>391.39</td><td>350</td><td>472</td><td>heat</td><td>232</td><td>0</td><td>232</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>Lifeburn</td><td>86640</td><td>56.55</td><td>8664.00</td><td>8664</td><td>8664</td><td>focus</td><td>10</td><td>0</td><td>10</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>Master's Strike</td><td>76208</td><td>49.74</td><td>6350.67</td><td>4191</td><td>9078</td><td>magic</td><td>12</td><td>10</td><td>17</td><td>70.59</td><td>83%</td></tr><tr><td>Praetor's Strike</td><td>71518</td><td>46.68</td><td>1117.47</td><td>806</td><td>1658</td><td>mental</td><td>64</td><td>37</td><td>81</td><td>79.01</td><td>58%</td></tr><tr><td>grave disturbance's Potent Essence Infusion</td><td>68530</td><td>44.73</td><td>389.38</td><td>350</td><td>472</td><td>heat</td><td>176</td><td>0</td><td>176</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>Poisonous Blast</td><td>53409</td><td>34.86</td><td>373.49</td><td>54</td><td>1479</td><td>poison</td><td>143</td><td>101</td><td>156</td><td>91.67</td><td>71%</td></tr><tr><td>Bewilderment</td><td>36766</td><td>24.00</td><td>3342.36</td><td>2420</td><td>4674</td><td>magic</td><td>11</td><td>8</td><td>11</td><td>100.00</td><td>73%</td></tr><tr><td>Vampire Bats</td><td>33998</td><td>22.19</td><td>548.35</td><td>222</td><td>1923</td><td>piercing</td><td>62</td><td>48</td><td>63</td><td>98.41</td><td>77%</td></tr><tr><td>grave disturbance's Rapid Decay</td><td>30849</td><td>20.14</td><td>350.56</td><td>252</td><td>536</td><td>disease</td><td>88</td><td>0</td><td>88</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>imp pack</td><td>26018</td><td>16.98</td><td>215.02</td><td>148</td><td>305</td><td>crushing</td><td>121</td><td>0</td><td>121</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Grim Devastation</td><td>25049</td><td>16.35</td><td>521.85</td><td>369</td><td>717</td><td>poison</td><td>48</td><td>0</td><td>48</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Grim Lifetap</td><td>19655</td><td>12.83</td><td>935.95</td><td>757</td><td>1152</td><td>heat</td><td>21</td><td>0</td><td>21</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Grim Wave</td><td>18877</td><td>12.32</td><td>224.73</td><td>164</td><td>316</td><td>poison</td><td>84</td><td>0</td><td>84</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>Dooming Darkness</td><td>12417</td><td>8.11</td><td>376.27</td><td>230</td><td>498</td><td>disease</td><td>33</td><td>22</td><td>35</td><td>94.29</td><td>67%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Grim Embrace</td><td>9323</td><td>6.09</td><td>332.96</td><td>235</td><td>423</td><td>poison</td><td>28</td><td>0</td><td>28</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>imp pack's Potent Essence Infusion</td><td>9145</td><td>5.97</td><td>381.04</td><td>350</td><td>467</td><td>heat</td><td>24</td><td>0</td><td>24</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Grim Bolt</td><td>8419</td><td>5.50</td><td>841.90</td><td>681</td><td>986</td><td>poison</td><td>10</td><td>0</td><td>10</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>grave disturbance</td><td>7745</td><td>5.06</td><td>368.81</td><td>254</td><td>479</td><td>disease</td><td>21</td><td>0</td><td>21</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Grim Distortion</td><td>7669</td><td>5.01</td><td>1533.80</td><td>1260</td><td>2010</td><td>poison</td><td>5</td><td>0</td><td>5</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Invocation</td><td>2436</td><td>1.59</td><td>487.20</td><td>444</td><td>538</td><td>divine</td><td>5</td><td>0</td><td>5</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde</td><td>2405</td><td>1.57</td><td>343.57</td><td>195</td><td>561</td><td>piercing</td><td>7</td><td>0</td><td>7</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>Fire Breath</td><td>2266</td><td>1.48</td><td>755.33</td><td>684</td><td>791</td><td>heat</td><td>3</td><td>2</td><td>5</td><td>60.00</td><td>67%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Graven Assault</td><td>1354</td><td>0.88</td><td>677.00</td><td>587</td><td>767</td><td>disease</td><td>2</td><td>0</td><td>2</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Cleansing Fire</td><td>660</td><td>0.43</td><td>132.00</td><td>125</td><td>143</td><td>heat</td><td>5</td><td>0</td><td>5</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>undead horde's Litany of Torment</td><td>655</td><td>0.43</td><td>327.50</td><td>296</td><td>359</td><td>divine</td><td>2</td><td>0</td><td>2</td><td>100.00</td><td>0%</td></tr><tr><td>Exposed Noxious</td><td>0</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>disease</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>43</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td></tr><tr><td>Siphoning of Souls</td><td>0</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>disease</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>2</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td></tr><tr><td>Killing</td><td>0</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>Death</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>12</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td></tr><tr><td>Dust Storm</td><td>0</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>heat</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>4</td><td>0.00</td><td>NaN</td></tr></tbody></table>It proc'd about 2195.5 times split 3 ways. (this is after adding all occurances of the tick and splitting them in half)So over a 25 minute fight it proc'd about 731.833~ times give or take the 100 or so that were direct target from dumbfires rather than the mage pet itself.Seems the proc rate was between 15 and 18% over a 25 minute period with a Dirge increasing procs. And as it should be about 10% chance to proc on all types of damage that seems about right? And a far cry from 60-80%...And even fully buffed for spell damage the proc levels out at about 1k DPS which equates to a bit less than half that in power regen. So I'd say the power regen is probably too high but the damage added really isn't signifigant enough to warrent the effect as being "broken".This is supposed to be somewhat of a center piece to the entire summoner set. It's a much needed boost to the DPS of both our pets and our dumbfires (if anything it's lower than it should be). The power regen should probably be trimmed back a bit but I think as far as Utility goes it doesn't hurt to give summoners power regen along the lines of Enchanters. It's not like we have anything else to offer at the moment aside from DPS... which is also a bit shy of the mark.Technically the effect might be out of line from its literal description but in practical application it offers a nice bandaid to the currect lack of summoner advancement in TSO. And really it's not even a very good bandaid.Should it be fixed? Eventually.Is there a valid reason other than semantics it be fixed before Summoner recieve the promised Overhaul? Not at all.</blockquote>you need help dude. If you can't see that this is broken let me help you with your math. No fancy algebra, no calculus.If you have an Encounter AE DOT(ie a spell that hits multiple mobs multiple times) and that DOT is hitting 1/3 less than a proc from ONE pet (and those 4000 hits are exclusively from the mage). Then said item is currently broken! Still not sure of the math? Take your epic then, or your praetors guard. Those items have 'same chance' to proc off each attack on a mob, and you're saying that a robe with similiar % chance to use is going off 40 times more is actually not more? Hope you're not an accountant IRL.

Xil

01-13-2009, 05:42 PM

Sabu it's a 3 mob encounter. It hit 4200 times there about but that is split in half because every proc is 2 hits right off. So you have 2100 hits on 3 mobs. Now because it is procing on AE damage you can then split that 3 ways because each proc is hitting 3 mobs so you have ~700 total procs of the robe.Now yes that is still more than Praetor's Guard and my Epic proc. But it basically works out to a 15% chance to proc. With Dirge Proc increase. Which is not out of line for an effect that procs on all the same occurances of damage that Piece of Mind triggers on. DoT ticks, direct damage, ect... Epic and PG don't proc on the same things that PoM procs on either but all the tooltips say Successful Attack.So what you are arguing is completely semantics. What the item says has no barring on it's application. I had leggs I could wear as a hat for a long time. What matters is the end result.And the end result is excessive power regen and about 1k DPS added to our DPS pets and about 250 DPS added to our tank pet with quite a bit less power regen.So like I said before you attacked me like the troll you've let yourself become over on EQ2 flames, while the effect is probably out of line from its desription its practical application is not entirely out of line. It does not benefit summoner in much regard other than Power regen and really until they fix summoner there is nothing else to bring to the table so you can't really say it's overpowered.90% of innovation comes from holes in design that produce unintended results.You can however, cry about semantics and make a fool of yourself as much as you'd like.

de lori

01-13-2009, 07:08 PM

Xil.....just send your mage pet at the training dummy.....dont attack....no other people in group and post what happensthen send one of your dumfires at said dummy.....post what happens...do this with all your pets and post what happensthis is the type of clean data that will hopefully show you how broken this robe isAnd as far as its effect not being out of line....this single legendary item completely trivializes some raid encounters and is bar none the best robe ever to exsist in game.....therefore demolishes any item progression.sure its nice while it lasts.....which wont be much longer now thnx to all the publicity....but to think its working as intended is just crazy talk

hellfire

01-13-2009, 07:10 PM

Sabutai

01-13-2009, 08:33 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sabu it's a 3 mob encounter. It hit 4200 times there about but that is split in half because every proc is 2 hits right off. So you have 2100 hits on 3 mobs. Now because it is procing on AE damage you can then split that 3 ways because each proc is hitting 3 mobs so you have ~700 total procs of the robe.Now yes that is still more than Praetor's Guard and my Epic proc. But it basically works out to a 15% chance to proc. With Dirge Proc increase. Which is not out of line for an effect that procs on all the same occurances of damage that Piece of Mind triggers on. DoT ticks, direct damage, ect... Epic and PG don't proc on the same things that PoM procs on either but all the tooltips say Successful Attack.So what you are arguing is completely semantics. What the item says has no barring on it's application. I had leggs I could wear as a hat for a long time. What matters is the end result.And the end result is excessive power regen and about 1k DPS added to our DPS pets and about 250 DPS added to our tank pet with quite a bit less power regen.So like I said before you attacked me like the troll you've let yourself become over on EQ2 flames, while the effect is probably out of line from its desription its practical application is not entirely out of line. It does not benefit summoner in much regard other than Power regen and really until they fix summoner there is nothing else to bring to the table so you can't really say it's overpowered.90% of innovation comes from holes in design that produce unintended results.You can however, cry about semantics and make a fool of yourself as much as you'd like.</blockquote>See, I like how you throw out the word troll a lot on people that don't agree with you. Problem is you're wrong about all the time when it comes to things about this class. This was brought up solely because most people like to keep nice things about gear under the radar because its nice to actually be wanted or have a temp fix in game for a completely broken class.One of the reasons why people jump on you so readily is that you ARE NOT HELPING NECROS!!! Period. Spouting that you run groups with a troub illy etc, basically the perfect group every night does nothing to fix the class that is so dependant on perfect group setups that its not even funny. Why is it then Mr. Perfect Necro, that with all this dps you keep spouting about that you still haven't gotten your mythical? Can't be because you're lazy, I mean that would just be incredulous. If you can do 10-15k dps in a zone that EVERY OTHER single mage can't break 7 on a zw is it that you still haven't cleared all of that zone, all of VP and even most of the new content?I'll tell you why, its because its BS! Either you're the only person in the raid with a perfect setup or it simply just doesn't happen.And you keep coming back with 'well its 3 mobs so you gotta split it this many ways'. That's not how you evaluate a piece of gear. If you still can't see that the 2000 hits is way out of line look at your pandemic, that's a dot it goes off MULTIPLE times on a 3 mob encounter and the robe has proc'd almost twice as many times ONCE! And you've been laughed at multiple times already stating how low your dps was on that fight anyways.So please if you want to help fix the class, stop posting like this. Nobody believes you anyways.

Germs666

01-13-2009, 09:03 PM

Well I think the "fix" should be changing the description on the item itself. If this item gives summoners a much needed DPS and utility boost then maybe that's what the devs had intended.I for one am tired of sitting on lfg seeing all of the "Scout DPS only" and "Mana regen needed" groups pass me by.I'm also tired of everyone and their parsing software trying to get this item nerfed. Why would any summoner shoot themselves in the foot? Maybe you like being the underdog? I for one do not. I doubt there are any other classes sayingthat this item should be "fixed" due to it being OP, but not now.... only after Sony finally spends the resources to revamp 2 entire classes? You really think that will happen when you can't even get a red named to post in the necro forums at all?No, my money would be on them changing it because your little ACT parses prove otherwise!!!I don't know anyone who could attest to the necromancer class being overpowered. Assassins? Well that's another story.I've seen many stealth nerfs. This could be a stealth upgrade so Shut up and enjoy it.

Xil

01-13-2009, 09:21 PM

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sabu it's a 3 mob encounter. It hit 4200 times there about but that is split in half because every proc is 2 hits right off. So you have 2100 hits on 3 mobs. Now because it is procing on AE damage you can then split that 3 ways because each proc is hitting 3 mobs so you have ~700 total procs of the robe.Now yes that is still more than Praetor's Guard and my Epic proc. But it basically works out to a 15% chance to proc. With Dirge Proc increase. Which is not out of line for an effect that procs on all the same occurances of damage that Piece of Mind triggers on. DoT ticks, direct damage, ect... Epic and PG don't proc on the same things that PoM procs on either but all the tooltips say Successful Attack.So what you are arguing is completely semantics. What the item says has no barring on it's application. I had leggs I could wear as a hat for a long time. What matters is the end result.And the end result is excessive power regen and about 1k DPS added to our DPS pets and about 250 DPS added to our tank pet with quite a bit less power regen.So like I said before you attacked me like the troll you've let yourself become over on EQ2 flames, while the effect is probably out of line from its desription its practical application is not entirely out of line. It does not benefit summoner in much regard other than Power regen and really until they fix summoner there is nothing else to bring to the table so you can't really say it's overpowered.90% of innovation comes from holes in design that produce unintended results.You can however, cry about semantics and make a fool of yourself as much as you'd like.</blockquote>See, I like how you throw out the word troll a lot on people that don't agree with you. Problem is you're wrong about all the time when it comes to things about this class. This was brought up solely because most people like to keep nice things about gear under the radar because its nice to actually be wanted or have a temp fix in game for a completely broken class.One of the reasons why people jump on you so readily is that you ARE NOT HELPING NECROS!!! Period. Spouting that you run groups with a troub illy etc, basically the perfect group every night does nothing to fix the class that is so dependant on perfect group setups that its not even funny. Why is it then Mr. Perfect Necro, that with all this dps you keep spouting about that you still haven't gotten your mythical? Can't be because you're lazy, I mean that would just be incredulous. If you can do 10-15k dps in a zone that EVERY OTHER single mage can't break 7 on a zw is it that you still haven't cleared all of that zone, all of VP and even most of the new content?I'll tell you why, its because its BS! Either you're the only person in the raid with a perfect setup or it simply just doesn't happen.And you keep coming back with 'well its 3 mobs so you gotta split it this many ways'. That's not how you evaluate a piece of gear. If you still can't see that the 2000 hits is way out of line look at your pandemic, that's a dot it goes off MULTIPLE times on a 3 mob encounter and the robe has proc'd almost twice as many times ONCE! And you've been laughed at multiple times already stating how low your dps was on that fight anyways.So please if you want to help fix the class, stop posting like this. Nobody believes you anyways.</blockquote>You keep saying perfect group but since when have you seen a Scout or any other Mage do a [Removed for Content] thing on the parse without an enchanter or bard or both? I group with classes that benefit me just like everyone else does. Or do Dirge and Coercer not count when it comes to scout DPS? Because every scout group has at least a bard or a chanter in them and most have both.And I throw out troll alot? Search my name for posts containing troll and make sure you omit this one. I only throw troll out there when people exibit trolling behavior like flaming to cause drama or derail threads or simply because they don't like someone else.And what you aren't realizing is for about 23 or those 25 minutes I was killing books. Not DPSing the Librarians. My pet however was on them for the entire 25 minutes and did not die. And when you go over the parse you see for every time stamp counted there's each mob listed twice. Which means the vast majority of the hits are coming from AE dot ticks which also makes sense because they are the most frequent attack.If I were DPSing the Librarians for that whole 25 minutes my hit rate would have been about 5 times that high and the DPS from potent essence infusion woulda been about 7 to 10% of the DPS just like it normally is.And if you want to help Necros why encourage people to exagerate our lack of DPS? Why encourage people who claim Necro are completely broken and useless? All you are doing is tell the Dev's fixing Summoners will take tons of work and cost lots of money.Guess what their response to that is? "Let's put it off until the last possible minute".Instead you could be showing them what Summoner can do so they see that the changes that need to be made are much less drastic than people make them out to be. Then they might consider the time and effort required to be at least partially cost effective.

hellfire

01-13-2009, 09:41 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>If I were DPSing the Librarians for that whole 25 minutes my hit rate would have been about 5 times that high and the DPS from potent essence infusion woulda been about 7 to 10% of the DPS just like it normally is.And if you want to help Necros why encourage people to exagerate our lack of DPS? Why encourage people who claim Necro are completely broken and useless? All you are doing is tell the Dev's fixing Summoners will take tons of work and cost lots of money.Guess what their response to that is? "Let's put it off until the last possible minute".Instead you could be showing them what Summoner can do so they see that the changes that need to be made are much less drastic than people make them out to be. Then they might consider the time and effort required to be at least partially cost effective.</blockquote>Your hit rate as i posted is 30 times a min the proc doesnt tic on each tic of a dot it ticks from spell landing on first tickwhich as i stated to equall 80-120 pct if you happen to factor in equalized casting or not.....there is no 10 pct or 15 its almost 100 pct......but you dont seem to grasp this.What the heck are you talking about costs to fix a class...we arent talking about redoing the graphic engine so it take into account the high end grafic cards instead of single core processor speed.....costly.Developers doing there jobs in balanceing the classes for healthy game balance = their job description.Showing what a summoner can do in regards to what?The robe does nothing to show anything except its very broken and just hides class issues.And if they think the changes arre minimal then it goes to reason that the class is not really in need of fixes and can be put to back burner for more important time consumeing fixes which would be druids.

de lori

01-13-2009, 09:53 PM

<cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well I think the "fix" should be changing the description on the item itself. If this item gives summoners a much needed DPS and utility boost then maybe that's what the devs had intended.</blockquote>Creating one legendary robe....only attainable at level 80....does not fix a class.....it hides the underlying issues.it is nice to feel wanted and useful again.....but to think this one robe in its current state was the intended fix for us is silly.Ill quite happily continue to use it until its fixed....unfortunately....all this publicity will get it fixed far sooner than most of us were hoping.Xil:As bigron has said....this is not procing off dot ticks....it is proc on first hit of each spell.your parse includes all your hits aswell...this robe only procs off pet spells....which you can test by sending your mage pet at a training dummy and not attacking......collect that data.....and look at the proc rate.......it is proccing almost every spell and regening about 150 mana per second to each person in the group.Edit: look here you go.<img src="http://5qdnow.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p7FQLyEZz-WzqUeBZcjCNvNWZNha0tkzIQAq6RdOMQjhgYzrgv9MFOQm65ZP hL-tqdR_U9knBLpECeX1cRhp-UA/Potent1.jpg" width="1024" height="523" /><img src="http://5qdnow.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pCzFyE7YwpTQSF4iLMPnxSpIH8UUQy813cpWWH60Cr0T3ta2 zvi-pgV0GgkPNN54JT1BfN8KgBv8tL3qj2WOnqA/Potent2.jpg" width="1012" height="862" />Its broken....and to post your <10k parse in the library with that included....as evidence summoners are the shiz is whats got alot of us mad

Bonestri

01-13-2009, 10:09 PM

Yeah, checked my parse, and this is parsing about every 2-3 seconds. I haven't been using dumbfires, I guess if it procs on those I should be using those as well. I would guess this is bugged, I doubt any one item would intentionally be made "irreplaceable" like this. Although this robe does bring us closer to par, it doesn't quite compete with what we need, which is really just a little readjustment. Enjoy unlimited group mana while it lasts =)

hellfire

01-13-2009, 10:26 PM

found out proc accidently set to 100 pct proc chance on pet spells and will be fixed....not broken lmfao.....all i got to say.

Cicadi

01-14-2009, 04:32 AM

Jesus christ people are stupid. Yes, the robe is obviously broken. I really fail to see how you could possibly think otherwise. I have no problem with it being fixed, however I would have preferred it to have been after the promised summoner changes. Now i guess we go back to being sub-par dps with no utility. Thanks OP for posting this! And thanks to Xil for being ridiculously obtuse and triggering a flame war which guarantees this gets noticed and fixed before class issues are addressed!Edit - and for the final nail in the coffin of the 'its not broken' idiocy, just check out what the t1 robe parses, which is almost the same effect *with the intended proc rate*Edit2: It's ironic that the fix will come not as a result of non-summoners whining but as a result of absolute [Removed for Content] who thought that it wasn't broken and felt the need to post about it.

acctlc

01-14-2009, 06:03 AM

Course its broken..and so are summoners. Despite the abundance of AoE encounters in TSO heroic content we're still just as broken. I can't tell ya how many calls out in the channels I see for the "perfect" group. Tank, healer or 2, bard, Illy (sometimes chanter), and Assassin/rogues sometimes wizzy. Doesn't matter that bard enchanter are both bloody utility classes..people would rather run with them both because in the end they still outshine the summoner. FFS I've even been ignored by these PUG's to Deep forge..the easiest [Removed for Content] zone in the xpac. In the end me telling these [Removed for Content], Hey I've got the insanely broken robe that makes me worth a [Removed for Content], isn't really an option is it? It doesn't matter that I'm actually one of the few summoners that know how to dps decently with a few buffs, but the dogma that summoners are utter crap is already so engrained in the game.In numerous TSO t3 instances the pet won't even stay standing unless I, as a summoner, constantly pester a healer to try to cure the bugger (which I can't do easily unless in vent and demand they make a macro specially for my pet, and really don't feel comfortable doing that unless its a healer I know closely aka the one I'm married to) thanks to SoE's genius idea of allowing the pets to be affected by these aoe's without an easy way to be cured by the summoner. So yeah..after my little rant...I agree the robe is broken. On the Master tonight in Crucible I didn't hardly attack cept for main pet plane shifted and swarms due to the reflect, and still pulled a 5900 parse with 30ish % of that being the robe. But add me to the list of folks that feel you can get around to fixing the robe proc when you get around to fixing the class...thanks.

Xil

01-14-2009, 06:05 AM

So if this is the spell Line up and Potent says 2.0 times per minute chance to proc on all attacks what's the % for each of these spells to proc? If it's based on a 3 second (cast+recovery) spell that hits 20 times per minute should hit 1.8 times method it would look about like this?So...CT = Cast TimeR = Recovery[(CT+R) / 3]*(2/20) right?Grim Embrace \ Cast 0.89 \ Recast 6.8 (~25.6%?)Grim Wave \ Cast 1.77 \ Recast 10.2 (~39.9%?)Grim Distortion \ Cast 2.66 \ Recast 12.7 (~51%?)Grim Lifetap \ Cast 2.66 \ Recast 7.6 (~34%?)Grim Bolt \ Cast 1.77 \ Recast 2.5 (~14.2%?)Grim Devastation \ Cast 3.55 \ Recast 38.2 (~162.8%?)Minion's Mark \ Cast .89 \ Recast 13.14 (~46.76%?) Is that about right?Since 2.0 times per minute is based on how many times you can cast the spell per minute longer casting/recovery spells have a much higher chance to proc. But even then Grim Bolt the quickest cast recovery spell sits at about a 14% chance to proc.So it's apparently not hitting on DoT ticks but it is hitting on direct damage hits at what appears to be the correct rate after all...Unless the 1.8 times on a spell that casts 20 times per minute thing was completely made up. Not my math by the way someone else posted the formula in another thread.And de lorianI've been parsing that high without the robe for a while. That was the first time I actually used the robe. I picked it up for the heat and magic resists on it for Druu and Nexona in VP. Had no clue it was even on the parse until someone mentioned it. I knew it was power regen of some kind and the fury was running out of power with a chanter and a bard in the group so I said screw it let's see if this helps at all. 9k on 3 targets is actually only about half of what I can do without the teir 2 robe when I have troubador, chanter, templar in the group.My parse the first 3 times we attempted that particular fight was just over 19k but posting that would have started another "you used a miracle and cheated" or "you doctor'd the parse" argument. So I posted the 9k for 10 minutes one instead in the hopes that it wouldn't be hard enough to believe that some jerk-off wouldn't flame it as nonsense.My parse always makes people mad. But mostly it's the Assassins who were handed Mythicals and don't have the gear to back them up getting bent outa shape because they can't beat me on the parse at all let alone raidwide. It's odd in game other summoners and Mages see my parses and instantly become my best friend and ask all sorts of questions, but I post anything out here on the forums and everyone gets all bent out of shape about it. Someone is always mad about somethin.At any rate though the long cast time and recovery of the majority of the mage pet spells it what causes the hi proc chance. If you hit the same training dummy with a Scout pet with quick cast and recovery spells you see a much lower proc chance per ability.Oh and even at this "rediculous proc rate" the power regen is only at 124 points per second. So technically neither one is actually broken it's just the perfect kind of proc for a long cast/recovery spell list.Thanks for the fun argument though.

de lori

01-14-2009, 07:04 AM

As i said in the other post...you have replaced recovery with recast/reuse in your mathrecovery: A 0.5 sec delay between casting your next spellrecast/reuse: The cool down timer on recasting the same spell again.by replacing a 0.5sec recovery time...with the long recast times of those spells....you have completely fudged the math.you have also included cast speed mods....which is actually to the detriment of your findings....but incorrect none the less.Normalised proc chance is determined on base cast times...not modded cast times.in the case of 1.8pm proc....a 3sec + 0.5 recovery...the proc chance is 10.5%that same spell with max cast speed will still net a 10.5% chance to trigger a proc but will only take 2sec (including recovery) to cast.Re: my issues with you posting in the mage resist rate thread and in general?I find it annoying when someone posts misinformation to the detriment of their own class and mine.you yourself have said....and i quoted you...that you think summoners should be doing more dps....yet spent how many pages stating how awesome you were and could maintain 10-15k ZW dps in Hate....followed by a learn2play slogan which i think is actually quite a fitting sig for you....but not for the reasons you think.You have also been quite vocal on pet stats and gear...wanting all these improvements to our DPS....yet you maintain that your class is not messed up and can pwn anyone.its one or the other Xil, face facts that summoners are in dire need of help and admit your putting out average numbers amongst less than mediocre players......or keep flying in the face of everything poeple here are working towards achieving for our classesYour parse did make me mad......most of us do well over that on that encounter but i dare you to go there with a good....i mean good warlock and come even close.....i also dare you to go into PotAO and dominate a good...i mean good, illy....and so through your lack of understanding about where your dmg was coming from ...you post that parse and centred staged that robe which most of us were enjoying in quiet modesty.As Cicadian said....the irony of this.....it was not brought to light by other classes whining...it was brought to light by actual summoners with little to no understanding of basic game mechanicsEnd of the day Xil...you have alot to learn about your class, other classes and game mechanics in general.....maybe after you've played him for another 6 months some of these issues that have been around since before you created him will make more sense.

hellfire

01-14-2009, 08:14 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>gear to back them up getting bent outa shape because they can't beat me on the parse at all let alone raidwide. It's odd in game other summoners and Mages see my parses and instantly become my best friend and ask all sorts of questions, but I post anything out here on the forums and everyone gets all bent out of shape about it. Someone is always mad about somethin.Oh and even at this "rediculous proc rate" the power regen is only at 124 points per second. So technically neither one is actually broken it's just the perfect kind of proc for a long cast/recovery spell list.Thanks for the fun argument though.</blockquote>People get bent outta shape because you post misinformation then to to pass it off as fact and roll with high and mighty attitude that their is hardly wrong with the class when thier is plenty wrong with both summoners.Pro tip #1: learn the difference between recast and recovery before you learn even the basic spell casting mechanics.Pro tip #2: learn basic game mechanics befor offering any advice to anyonePro tip #3: learn to take advice and critacism from people that have been in this game and class since day one and have prob forgot more about their class/game then what you could ever learn.Pro tip #4: Befor you try and argu any point you may have...find out befor hand if all the information you have is correctAlso this put out 20k+ power to a group in a min so that equals to about 330 power every second.And since in eq most every effect is measured in tics witch is generally a 4 sec or 6 sec time frame .......this equalls 1300-2k power a tic....an there is nothing close or even half as good.

Xil

01-14-2009, 05:39 PM

<cite>Charayne@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>As i said in the other post...you have replaced recovery with recast/reuse in your mathrecovery: A 0.5 sec delay between casting your next spellrecast/reuse: The cool down timer on recasting the same spell again.by replacing a 0.5sec recovery time...with the long recast times of those spells....you have completely fudged the math.you have also included cast speed mods....which is actually to the detriment of your findings....but incorrect none the less.Normalised proc chance is determined on base cast times...not modded cast times.in the case of 1.8pm proc....a 3sec + 0.5 recovery...the proc chance is 10.5%that same spell with max cast speed will still net a 10.5% chance to trigger a proc but will only take 2sec (including recovery) to cast.Re: my issues with you posting in the mage resist rate thread and in general?I find it annoying when someone posts misinformation to the detriment of their own class and mine.you yourself have said....and i quoted you...that you think summoners should be doing more dps....yet spent how many pages stating how awesome you were and could maintain 10-15k ZW dps in Hate....followed by a learn2play slogan which i think is actually quite a fitting sig for you....but not for the reasons you think.You have also been quite vocal on pet stats and gear...wanting all these improvements to our DPS....yet you maintain that your class is not messed up and can pwn anyone.its one or the other Xil, face facts that summoners are in dire need of help and admit your putting out average numbers amongst less than mediocre players......or keep flying in the face of everything poeple here are working towards achieving for our classesYour parse did make me mad......most of us do well over that on that encounter but i dare you to go there with a good....i mean good warlock and come even close.....i also dare you to go into PotAO and dominate a good...i mean good, illy....and so through your lack of understanding about where your dmg was coming from ...you post that parse and centred staged that robe which most of us were enjoying in quiet modesty.As Cicadian said....the irony of this.....it was not brought to light by other classes whining...it was brought to light by actual summoners with little to no understanding of basic game mechanicsEnd of the day Xil...you have alot to learn about your class, other classes and game mechanics in general.....maybe after you've played him for another 6 months some of these issues that have been around since before you created him will make more sense.</blockquote>1) I never said anything about a zone wide parse in Hate. Simply that as a Necro I've seen 10 to 15k in Hate without a Mythical. My referance was to parsing higher in Hate than in VP which I do for some reason. I was parsing 7k in Hate the day I got my Choker in little to no raid gear.2) Chanters no matter how good aren't going to beat an equally skilled and geared summoner, as you should well know3) I believe that it is others like you that have been misinforming others about Necro for a long time5) My Damage on that 9k parse was the result of me doing 15 to 20k repeatedly with drops to zero for Rezzing the Fury and waiting on those 3 mobs to reactivate, or killing more books. You guys really don't understand that fight well enough to pass any kind of judgement on it. Considering you do "well over that" on that encounter I find it difficult to believe you can over look the basic script. And no one without a Mythical "AND" gear to back it up does better.Clearly the 500DPS from the robe was the real Parse and my DPS is laughable though... clearly...Our Top end on Necro DPS is fine. Conjy don't seem to stack up as high... Even without the robe and without a Mythical I put up Assassin numbers regularly. And I don't care if you believe me about it or not. All the people I play with daily do because they watch the parse scroll by and see me with a huge number on the top of it. And I'm not in 30k DPS raids doing this, I'm in 70 to 80k DPS raids doing this. So save your mediocre comments. Gear does not make better players. I know more than enough players in teir 4 gear mythicald and fully mastered that are a complete and utter waste of a slot on any raid or in any group just because they rode coat tails to get there.Read what I type and comment on it instead or reading what people are flaming about it and jumping to conclusions.And just FYI the robe was already a known issue well before this was posted. The fact that you and others are mad because it's out in the open now is laughable. "Oh no our broken item that gives our group Lich (because that's all the more power regen you get from it) and adds 500DPS to our pets with worthless DPS already..." Give me a break. I didn't blow this out of proportion the jerk-offs that wanted to prove I was cheating somehow by parseing my "AVERAGE" numbers as you put it, (why would they think I was fixing the parse if those numbers are average again?).And my high and mighty attitude, is an assumption based on the emotional tone infered by you in text from posts where I'm already responding to flaming that started months ago for even more rediculous reasons. Jumping on the band wagon at this point is redundant.But the responding to the flaming and flame baiting is over. I'm done arguing for the sack of others boredom.

Xil

01-14-2009, 05:52 PM

<cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>gear to back them up getting bent outa shape because they can't beat me on the parse at all let alone raidwide. It's odd in game other summoners and Mages see my parses and instantly become my best friend and ask all sorts of questions, but I post anything out here on the forums and everyone gets all bent out of shape about it. Someone is always mad about somethin.Oh and even at this "rediculous proc rate" the power regen is only at 124 points per second. So technically neither one is actually broken it's just the perfect kind of proc for a long cast/recovery spell list.Thanks for the fun argument though.</blockquote>People get bent outta shape because you post misinformation then to to pass it off as fact and roll with high and mighty attitude that their is hardly wrong with the class when thier is plenty wrong with both summoners.Pro tip #1: learn the difference between recast and recovery before you learn even the basic spell casting mechanics.Pro tip #2: learn basic game mechanics befor offering any advice to anyonePro tip #3: learn to take advice and critacism from people that have been in this game and class since day one and have prob forgot more about their class/game then what you could ever learn.Pro tip #4: Befor you try and argu any point you may have...find out befor hand if all the information you have is correctAlso this put out 20k+ power to a group in a min so that equals to about 330 power every second.And since in eq most every effect is measured in tics witch is generally a 4 sec or 6 sec time frame .......this equalls 1300-2k power a tic....an there is nothing close or even half as good.</blockquote>You can see the power regen if you click on the clearly labled Power Replenish (Inc) tab. Over 25 minutes of constant procing on 3 mobs the Power Inc I recieved was 109.01 per second. The tank only got 63.58The Druid's Nature's Restoration actually came in higher than Potent Essence Infusion at 105 per second verses the 82 per second from potentThe dirge got a whoping 31 power per second from itThe Enchanter a whopping 38 power per second from itClearly that's overpowered.And you have to be pro before you can offer pro tips... a Pro would know where the Power Inc tab is in ACT =P

hellfire

01-14-2009, 07:24 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>gear to back them up getting bent outa shape because they can't beat me on the parse at all let alone raidwide. It's odd in game other summoners and Mages see my parses and instantly become my best friend and ask all sorts of questions, but I post anything out here on the forums and everyone gets all bent out of shape about it. Someone is always mad about somethin.Oh and even at this "rediculous proc rate" the power regen is only at 124 points per second. So technically neither one is actually broken it's just the perfect kind of proc for a long cast/recovery spell list.Thanks for the fun argument though.</blockquote>People get bent outta shape because you post misinformation then to to pass it off as fact and roll with high and mighty attitude that their is hardly wrong with the class when thier is plenty wrong with both summoners.Pro tip #1: learn the difference between recast and recovery before you learn even the basic spell casting mechanics.Pro tip #2: learn basic game mechanics befor offering any advice to anyonePro tip #3: learn to take advice and critacism from people that have been in this game and class since day one and have prob forgot more about their class/game then what you could ever learn.Pro tip #4: Befor you try and argu any point you may have...find out befor hand if all the information you have is correctAlso this put out 20k+ power to a group in a min so that equals to about 330 power every second.And since in eq most every effect is measured in tics witch is generally a 4 sec or 6 sec time frame .......this equalls 1300-2k power a tic....an there is nothing close or even half as good.</blockquote>You can see the power regen if you click on the clearly labled Power Replenish (Inc) tab. Over 25 minutes of constant procing on 3 mobs the Power Inc I recieved was 109.01 per second. The tank only got 63.58The Druid's Nature's Restoration actually came in higher than Potent Essence Infusion at 105 per second verses the 82 per second from potentThe dirge got a whoping 31 power per second from itThe Enchanter a whopping 38 power per second from itClearly that's overpowered.And you have to be pro before you can offer pro tips... a Pro would know where the Power Inc tab is in ACT =P</blockquote>Wow man you want to click and look in power replenish out to see wha your giveing to the group or anyone for that matter.Power in is generally what you recieve........./sighOk a couple more act pics so you/everyone else can visualize and see 500+ power a sec is what your giveing/regening to grp same as any power regen in game chanter/bard ect...ect.First power parse is from 3 mob encounter in tombsSecond is single mob encounter in palaceVery evident what i regen to grp via the robe.<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/bigdawgz/brokenpowerregen.jpg" width="1023" height="366" /><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/bigdawgz/powerproc2.jpg" width="1024" height="339" />

Xil

01-14-2009, 09:24 PM

So a little over 500 split 6 ways?500/6 = 83.3~So the power regen added is about in line with Enchanters. And not in fact excessive or rediculous?

hellfire

01-14-2009, 09:48 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>So a little over 500 split 6 ways?500/6 = 83.3~So the power regen added is about in line with Enchanters. And not in fact excessive or rediculous?</blockquote>And you still dont get the simple things that that is per second .Ill will make it simple take that 83.3 or 500 for group and times that by 6.....that equals 500 for each person and 3k for the group per tick which most all effects are timed by.....lets see 500 -3k per tick is alot more then 80-100 to 5-600 {depending on group size of corse in both cases } per tick that a chanter can provide not 100 pct sure on the numbers but fact still remains that broken robe generates atleast more then 2-3x the amount of a mythicaled chanter and bard combined.

Xil

01-14-2009, 10:13 PM

<cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>So a little over 500 split 6 ways?500/6 = 83.3~So the power regen added is about in line with Enchanters. And not in fact excessive or rediculous?</blockquote>And you still dont get the simple things that that is per second .Ill will make it simple take that 83.3 or 500 for group and times that by 6.....that equals 500 for each person and 3k for the group per tick which most all effects are timed by.....lets see 500 -3k per tick is alot more then 80-100 to 5-600 {depending on group size of corse in both cases } per tick that a chanter can provide not 100 pct sure on the numbers but fact still remains that broken robe generates atleast more then 2-3x the amount of a mythicaled chanter and bard combined.</blockquote>No that's not 500 per person.If you look at the Power Inc for each person in your group you will see what I am talking about.What you are showing is your total power out. It is split 6 ways, once for each group member. So each person gets about 83 power per second tick "IF" your pet is fully engaged and fighting all the time.

hellfire

01-14-2009, 10:19 PM

simple again a chanter regens 80 per tick robe does 500 per tick ...tick is 6 secs in game time

Sabutai

01-14-2009, 10:55 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>So a little over 500 split 6 ways?500/6 = 83.3~So the power regen added is about in line with Enchanters. And not in fact excessive or rediculous?</blockquote>And you still dont get the simple things that that is per second .Ill will make it simple take that 83.3 or 500 for group and times that by 6.....that equals 500 for each person and 3k for the group per tick which most all effects are timed by.....lets see 500 -3k per tick is alot more then 80-100 to 5-600 {depending on group size of corse in both cases } per tick that a chanter can provide not 100 pct sure on the numbers but fact still remains that broken robe generates atleast more then 2-3x the amount of a mythicaled chanter and bard combined.</blockquote>No that's not 500 per person.If you look at the Power Inc for each person in your group you will see what I am talking about.What you are showing is your total power out. It is split 6 ways, once for each group member. So each person gets about 83 power per second tick "IF" your pet is fully engaged and fighting all the time.</blockquote>You can't possibly be this slow?Here.I did Crucible today with a PUG, took a while cause we had some slow pokes picking up updates etc.potent did 1572 hits in 8:27 of fighting. Now that's the total out from me. YOU CANNOT SPLIT IT, since the proc whenever it goes off, hits everybody in the group.So, 1572 hits of 304 power = 477,888 power regen'd in 8:27 = 942.58 power per second. Wow bit higher than 80 huh.Also learn to read ACT, you can't see how much somebody is being regen'd from it just by looking at the ext dps on the power chart, you have to calculate by ticks inc cause you aren't regen'ing any power if you're already at full.Still don't believe me, sprint and go OOM, tell me how long it takes you go from zero power to full while fighting, 20 secs maybe? When you can visibly see your power go up is quite a bit more than lich, seeing as how lich is only what 2% hard capped every 6 secs? which is roughly 33 power per sec with a 10k power pool.

Xil

01-15-2009, 03:48 AM

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>So a little over 500 split 6 ways?500/6 = 83.3~So the power regen added is about in line with Enchanters. And not in fact excessive or rediculous?</blockquote>And you still dont get the simple things that that is per second .Ill will make it simple take that 83.3 or 500 for group and times that by 6.....that equals 500 for each person and 3k for the group per tick which most all effects are timed by.....lets see 500 -3k per tick is alot more then 80-100 to 5-600 {depending on group size of corse in both cases } per tick that a chanter can provide not 100 pct sure on the numbers but fact still remains that broken robe generates atleast more then 2-3x the amount of a mythicaled chanter and bard combined.</blockquote>No that's not 500 per person.If you look at the Power Inc for each person in your group you will see what I am talking about.What you are showing is your total power out. It is split 6 ways, once for each group member. So each person gets about 83 power per second tick "IF" your pet is fully engaged and fighting all the time.</blockquote>You can't possibly be this slow?Here.I did Crucible today with a PUG, took a while cause we had some slow pokes picking up updates etc.potent did 1572 hits in 8:27 of fighting. Now that's the total out from me. YOU CANNOT SPLIT IT, since the proc whenever it goes off, hits everybody in the group.So, 1572 hits of 304 power = 477,888 power regen'd in 8:27 = 942.58 power per second. Wow bit higher than 80 huh.Also learn to read ACT, you can't see how much somebody is being regen'd from it just by looking at the ext dps on the power chart, you have to calculate by ticks inc cause you aren't regen'ing any power if you're already at full.Still don't believe me, sprint and go OOM, tell me how long it takes you go from zero power to full while fighting, 20 secs maybe? When you can visibly see your power go up is quite a bit more than lich, seeing as how lich is only what 2% hard capped every 6 secs? which is roughly 33 power per sec with a 10k power pool.</blockquote>Or you can open ACT look at Power Regen Inc and it will tell you the real number of hits since the AE's only proc once but on mutiple mobs and the Proc itself is 2 hits.Just open ACT and look at the Power Inc of you (which is doubled if yer pet is out remember) and then the Power Inc of everyone else in the group. That will tell you exactly how much Potent is regening and exactly how many times it really proc'd.

Cicadi

01-15-2009, 07:10 AM

Just want to say a big thanks to Xil and others for their utter idiocy, which has resulted in the robe being fixed in the next hotfix!Thanks guys!

Xil

01-15-2009, 07:43 AM

<cite>Cicadian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just want to say a big thanks to Xil and others for their utter idiocy, which has resulted in the robe being fixed in the next hotfix!Thanks guys!</blockquote>The next hotfix has come and gone. =P

Cicadi

01-15-2009, 02:13 PM

I'm beginning to think you are some sort of elaborate troll account. No one can possibly be this stupid.<blockquote>Here let me put this to bed right now. Inbox :: Message From: Fyreflyte To: hellfire Date: 01/13/2009 16: 29 :26 Subject: Re:Certain gear proc possably broken? Not supposed to proc on swarm pets. Is it doing so? As for the extreme proc rate, I accidentally had a proc rate set to 100%. It's been fixed and will go live with the next hotfix. Thanks for the report, Fyre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fyreflyte "The EverQuest II design area is now officially zoned as an 'Abba Free' location..." -Lyndro (via team-wide email)</blockquote>Hellfire = bigron btw. While it was broken and needed a fix, I don't think this would have happened anywhere near as fast if it had not been for utter, utter stupidity on your part (and others, to be fair).

Xil

01-15-2009, 06:50 PM

<cite>Cicadian wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm beginning to think you are some sort of elaborate troll account. No one can possibly be this stupid.<blockquote>Here let me put this to bed right now.Inbox :: Message From: Fyreflyte To: hellfire Date: 01/13/2009 16: 29 :26 Subject: Re:Certain gear proc possably broken? Not supposed to proc on swarm pets. Is it doing so?As for the extreme proc rate, I accidentally had a proc rate set to 100%. It's been fixed and will go live with the next hotfix.Thanks for the report,Fyre--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Fyreflyte"The EverQuest II design area is now officially zoned as an 'Abba Free' location..." -Lyndro (via team-wide email)</blockquote>Hellfire = bigron btw. While it was broken and needed a fix, I don't think this would have happened anywhere near as fast if it had not been for utter, utter stupidity on your part (and others, to be fair).</blockquote>Why would you make this up? The proc rate isn't anywhere near 100% so why would they say it was? And why is possibley spelled wrong?hmmmm strange....

hellfire

01-15-2009, 07:03 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cicadian wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm beginning to think you are some sort of elaborate troll account. No one can possibly be this stupid.<blockquote>Here let me put this to bed right now.Inbox :: Message From: Fyreflyte To: hellfire Date: 01/13/2009 16: 29 :26 Subject: Re:Certain gear proc possably broken? Not supposed to proc on swarm pets. Is it doing so?As for the extreme proc rate, I accidentally had a proc rate set to 100%. It's been fixed and will go live with the next hotfix.Thanks for the report,Fyre--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Fyreflyte"The EverQuest II design area is now officially zoned as an 'Abba Free' location..." -Lyndro (via team-wide email)</blockquote>Hellfire = bigron btw. While it was broken and needed a fix, I don't think this would have happened anywhere near as fast if it had not been for utter, utter stupidity on your part (and others, to be fair).</blockquote>Why would you make this up? The proc rate isn't anywhere near 100% so why would they say it was? And why is possibley spelled wrong?hmmmm strange....</blockquote>[Removed for Content] would you like the PM emailed to you?

Xil

01-15-2009, 08:08 PM

<cite>hellfire wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cicadian wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm beginning to think you are some sort of elaborate troll account. No one can possibly be this stupid.<blockquote>Here let me put this to bed right now.Inbox :: Message From: Fyreflyte To: hellfire Date: 01/13/2009 16: 29 :26 Subject: Re:Certain gear proc possably broken? Not supposed to proc on swarm pets. Is it doing so?As for the extreme proc rate, I accidentally had a proc rate set to 100%. It's been fixed and will go live with the next hotfix.Thanks for the report,Fyre--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Fyreflyte"The EverQuest II design area is now officially zoned as an 'Abba Free' location..." -Lyndro (via team-wide email)</blockquote>Hellfire = bigron btw. While it was broken and needed a fix, I don't think this would have happened anywhere near as fast if it had not been for utter, utter stupidity on your part (and others, to be fair).</blockquote>Why would you make this up? The proc rate isn't anywhere near 100% so why would they say it was? And why is possibley spelled wrong?hmmmm strange....</blockquote>[Removed for Content] would you like the PM emailed to you?</blockquote>You know quoting PMs and posting them is against the forum rules, as is offering to share PM's with others right? Along with fabricating PMs from Devs?The Proc rate was never 100%, it's high but no where near 100%. So why would Fyre say "oops my bad I set it to 100%"? And you spelled Possibely as Possably. And also who in the history of Devs anywhere would tell someone in a PM that a change will be made in the next Hotfix? That's a serious no no... even if it were true.Let's not even get into the terrible grammar and the fact that Fyre supposedly typed "Not supposed to proc on swarm pets. Is it doing so?". Why would Fyre ask that question? It's obvious the original message was supposed to have stated that. So why ask "Is it doing so" again?And why is Fyre's signature different? If it was even just copy/pasted the Signature would still contain the proper formating...Your quoted PM looks more like a PM you made yourself.

hellfire

01-15-2009, 08:11 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>hellfire wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cicadian wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm beginning to think you are some sort of elaborate troll account. No one can possibly be this stupid.<blockquote>Here let me put this to bed right now.Inbox :: Message From: Fyreflyte To: hellfire Date: 01/13/2009 16: 29 :26 Subject: Re:Certain gear proc possably broken? Not supposed to proc on swarm pets. Is it doing so?As for the extreme proc rate, I accidentally had a proc rate set to 100%. It's been fixed and will go live with the next hotfix.Thanks for the report,Fyre--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Fyreflyte"The EverQuest II design area is now officially zoned as an 'Abba Free' location..." -Lyndro (via team-wide email)</blockquote>Hellfire = bigron btw. While it was broken and needed a fix, I don't think this would have happened anywhere near as fast if it had not been for utter, utter stupidity on your part (and others, to be fair).</blockquote>Why would you make this up? The proc rate isn't anywhere near 100% so why would they say it was? And why is possibley spelled wrong?hmmmm strange....</blockquote>[Removed for Content] would you like the PM emailed to you?</blockquote>You know quoting PMs and posting them is against the forum rules, as is offering to share PM's with others right? Along with fabricating PMs from Devs?The Proc rate was never 100%, it's high but no where near 100%. So why would Fyre say "oops my bad I set it to 100%"? And you spelled Possibely as Possably. And also who in the history of Devs anywhere would tell someone in a PM that a change will be made in the next Hotfix? That's a serious no no... even if it were true.Let's not even get into the terrible grammar and the fact that Fyre supposedly typed "Not supposed to proc on swarm pets. Is it doing so?". Why would Fyre ask that question? It's obvious the original message was supposed to have stated that. So why ask "Is it doing so" again?Your PM quoted PM looks more like a PM you made yourself.</blockquote>Hahahaha you fail so much...just pm fyreflyte and ask him your self .....cause yeah i obviously made this up .People have forever talked with Devs and gotten info.....try it...you might get a answer to a question or to or when fixes would be comeing for a issue or 2......this are all known facts ...its a shame you havent a clue it seems. And you still fail at math because the proc rate is damm near close to 100 pct as shown on the parse reports and useing simple math.

Xil

01-15-2009, 08:34 PM

<cite>hellfire wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>hellfire wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cicadian wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm beginning to think you are some sort of elaborate troll account. No one can possibly be this stupid.<blockquote>Here let me put this to bed right now.Inbox :: Message From: Fyreflyte To: hellfire Date: 01/13/2009 16: 29 :26 Subject: Re:Certain gear proc possably broken? Not supposed to proc on swarm pets. Is it doing so?As for the extreme proc rate, I accidentally had a proc rate set to 100%. It's been fixed and will go live with the next hotfix.Thanks for the report,Fyre--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Fyreflyte"The EverQuest II design area is now officially zoned as an 'Abba Free' location..." -Lyndro (via team-wide email)</blockquote>Hellfire = bigron btw. While it was broken and needed a fix, I don't think this would have happened anywhere near as fast if it had not been for utter, utter stupidity on your part (and others, to be fair).</blockquote>Why would you make this up? The proc rate isn't anywhere near 100% so why would they say it was? And why is possibley spelled wrong?hmmmm strange....</blockquote>[Removed for Content] would you like the PM emailed to you?</blockquote>You know quoting PMs and posting them is against the forum rules, as is offering to share PM's with others right? Along with fabricating PMs from Devs?The Proc rate was never 100%, it's high but no where near 100%. So why would Fyre say "oops my bad I set it to 100%"? And you spelled Possibely as Possably. And also who in the history of Devs anywhere would tell someone in a PM that a change will be made in the next Hotfix? That's a serious no no... even if it were true.Let's not even get into the terrible grammar and the fact that Fyre supposedly typed "Not supposed to proc on swarm pets. Is it doing so?". Why would Fyre ask that question? It's obvious the original message was supposed to have stated that. So why ask "Is it doing so" again?Your PM quoted PM looks more like a PM you made yourself.</blockquote>Hahahaha you fail so much...just pm fyreflyte and ask him your self .....cause yeah i obviously made this up .People have forever talked with Devs and gotten info.....try it...you might get a answer to a question or to or when fixes would be comeing for a issue or 2......this are all known facts ...its a shame you havent a clue it seems. And you still fail at math because the proc rate is damm near close to 100 pct as shown on the parse reports and useing simple math.</blockquote>So you are saying "YOU" told Fyre that the proc rate was at 100% and that has resulted in a nerf to the robe now that "YOU" lied to a Dev about the proc rate on an item you yourself use?And you would blaim me for your need to tell a Dev that this robe is procing at 100% when in fact it only procs at about 10% when used on any pet but the Mage and tops out at about 24% when using the Mage pet?And if you open up ACT once in a while (I know as a conjy it's disheartening but skip past your DPS and go to the power part quick like a bandaid) you would be able to open up the Power Inc and see that ACT does the math for you. Power Inc hits = total Potent procs. AE procs still only cause the power mechanic to proc once. FYISo basically you are telling me and everyone else here that the one who failed here is you. First, for not understanding how to use ACT, and then the epic fail.... lying to a Dev about an Item you yourself use and screwing over yourself and everyone else who uses the item because of it.That about sum up what you are telling us?

hellfire

01-15-2009, 08:39 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>hellfire wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>hellfire wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cicadian wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm beginning to think you are some sort of elaborate troll account. No one can possibly be this stupid.<blockquote>Here let me put this to bed right now.Inbox :: Message From: Fyreflyte To: hellfire Date: 01/13/2009 16: 29 :26 Subject: Re:Certain gear proc possably broken? Not supposed to proc on swarm pets. Is it doing so?As for the extreme proc rate, I accidentally had a proc rate set to 100%. It's been fixed and will go live with the next hotfix.Thanks for the report,Fyre--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Fyreflyte"The EverQuest II design area is now officially zoned as an 'Abba Free' location..." -Lyndro (via team-wide email)</blockquote>Hellfire = bigron btw. While it was broken and needed a fix, I don't think this would have happened anywhere near as fast if it had not been for utter, utter stupidity on your part (and others, to be fair).</blockquote>Why would you make this up? The proc rate isn't anywhere near 100% so why would they say it was? And why is possibley spelled wrong?hmmmm strange....</blockquote>[Removed for Content] would you like the PM emailed to you?</blockquote>You know quoting PMs and posting them is against the forum rules, as is offering to share PM's with others right? Along with fabricating PMs from Devs?The Proc rate was never 100%, it's high but no where near 100%. So why would Fyre say "oops my bad I set it to 100%"? And you spelled Possibely as Possably. And also who in the history of Devs anywhere would tell someone in a PM that a change will be made in the next Hotfix? That's a serious no no... even if it were true.Let's not even get into the terrible grammar and the fact that Fyre supposedly typed "Not supposed to proc on swarm pets. Is it doing so?". Why would Fyre ask that question? It's obvious the original message was supposed to have stated that. So why ask "Is it doing so" again?Your PM quoted PM looks more like a PM you made yourself.</blockquote>Hahahaha you fail so much...just pm fyreflyte and ask him your self .....cause yeah i obviously made this up .People have forever talked with Devs and gotten info.....try it...you might get a answer to a question or to or when fixes would be comeing for a issue or 2......this are all known facts ...its a shame you havent a clue it seems. And you still fail at math because the proc rate is damm near close to 100 pct as shown on the parse reports and useing simple math.</blockquote>So you are saying "YOU" told Fyre that the proc rate was at 100% and that has resulted in a nerf to the robe now that "YOU" lied to a Dev about the proc rate on an item you yourself use?And you would blaim me for your need to tell a Dev that this robe is procing at 100% when in fact it only procs at about 10% when used on any pet but the Mage and tops out at about 24% when using the Mage pet?And if you open up ACT once in a while (I know as a conjy it's disheartening but skip past your DPS and go to the power part quick like a bandaid) you would be able to open up the Power Inc and see that ACT does the math for you. Power Inc hits = total Potent procs. AE procs still only cause the power mechanic to proc once. FYISo basically you are telling me and everyone else here that the one who failed here is you. First, for not understanding how to use ACT, and then the epic fail.... lying to a Dev about an Item you yourself use and screwing over yourself and everyone else who uses the item because of it.That about sum up what you are telling us?</blockquote>Nope just asked him to check the item because it wasnt procing right and if it was suppose to proc on any temp pets also..........good try tho kid.And you still cant comprehend fix verse nerf or recovery verse recast or 2 times per min equalls 10 pct or.....damm this might take awhile.

Germs666

01-15-2009, 09:01 PM

I can't understand why you guys would beg the devs for another summoner nerf. I'm starting to think that you people like having no utility and horrible DPS so that you have something to gripe about for attention. I would love for our class to actually be worthy of a raid slot.Thank Xil and Hellfire for this one.

hellfire

01-15-2009, 09:09 PM

<cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can't understand why you guys would beg the devs for another summoner nerf. I'm starting to think that you people like having no utility and horrible DPS so that you have something to gripe about for attention. I would love for our class to actually be worthy of a raid slot.Thank Xil and Hellfire for this one.</blockquote>you dont understand the difference between nerf and fix also it seem./sad face

Xil

01-15-2009, 09:12 PM

And now the kid comments come out?Why would you tell the class dev that the robe is broken in the first place? And knowing full well that the robe isn't proc'ing at 100% why would that dev say "oops my bad I set to 100%"You and your friend accuse me and others of ruining it for you but you go straight to the dev yourself and say "hey look at this ruined robe (that I happen to love and don't want fixed), look how broken it is you better fix it" -hellfireSeriously, why would you do that?To win an argument? They have a whole section on flames something like Rate a... (what's the word), that would be perfect for this little display."OMG someone told people the robe procs more than it's supposed to they are so /fail. But I showed them I went straight to the dev and told them it was broken and now it's getting nerfed." - hellfire"Did I mention I called them a kid and made fun of them about how much smarter than them I are? /win" -hellfireYou win. Seriously.It looks like we have you to thank for this epic win and on behalf of all summoner everywhere, I thank you.Seriously man you win the argument congradulations.

hellfire

01-15-2009, 09:25 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>And now the kid comments come out?Why would you tell the class dev that the robe is broken in the first place? And knowing full well that the robe isn't proc'ing at 100% why would that dev say "oops my bad I set to 100%"You and your friend accuse me and others of ruining it for you but you go straight to the dev yourself and say "hey look at this ruined robe (that I happen to love and don't want fixed), look how broken it is you better fix it" -hellfireSeriously, why would you do that?To win an argument? They have a whole section on flames something like Rate a... (what's the word), that would be perfect for this little display."OMG someone told people the robe procs more than it's supposed to they are so /fail. But I showed them I went straight to the dev and told them it was broken and now it's getting nerfed." - hellfire"Did I mention I called them a kid and made fun of them about how much smarter than them I are? /win" -hellfireYou win. Seriously.It looks like we have you to thank for this epic win and on behalf of all summoner everywhere, I thank you.Seriously man you win the argument congradulations.</blockquote>Hi he isnt the class dev he is the item dev and that would be the person to bring broken item issues to.The item does proc close to 100 pct ...the info in previous post shows this as well as info from other players.....unless you are the only one that uses this special math and i think you are ...because you are the only person out there that views 80-120 pct proc rate depending on spell normilization would equall 15 pct.And i already told you why...because all that the broken robe was doing is hideing the the class issues that we have...you think bumping our dps by 20 pct from a broken item was a good thing?This is still something you dont want to admit/ and refuse to even acknowlege .Im very sorry all of these things are still to hard for you to grasp.And ive won this argument from my first post........ so nothing epic about it....preety much one sided if you ask me.

Xil

01-15-2009, 09:40 PM

<cite>hellfire wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>And now the kid comments come out?Why would you tell the class dev that the robe is broken in the first place? And knowing full well that the robe isn't proc'ing at 100% why would that dev say "oops my bad I set to 100%"You and your friend accuse me and others of ruining it for you but you go straight to the dev yourself and say "hey look at this ruined robe (that I happen to love and don't want fixed), look how broken it is you better fix it" -hellfireSeriously, why would you do that?To win an argument? They have a whole section on flames something like Rate a... (what's the word), that would be perfect for this little display."OMG someone told people the robe procs more than it's supposed to they are so /fail. But I showed them I went straight to the dev and told them it was broken and now it's getting nerfed." - hellfire"Did I mention I called them a kid and made fun of them about how much smarter than them I are? /win" -hellfireYou win. Seriously.It looks like we have you to thank for this epic win and on behalf of all summoner everywhere, I thank you.Seriously man you win the argument congradulations.</blockquote>Hi he isnt the class dev he is the item dev and that would be the person to bring broken item issues to.The item does proc close to 100 pct ...the info in previous post shows this as well as info from other players.....unless you are the only one that uses this special math and i think you are ...because you are the only person out there that views 80-120 pct proc rate depending on spell normilization would equall 15 pct.And i already told you why...because all that the broken robe was doing is hideing the the class issues that we have...you think bumping our dps by 20 pct from a broken item was a good thing?This is still something you dont want to admit/ and refuse to even acknowlege .Im very sorry all of these things are still to hard for you to grasp.And ive won this argument from my first post........ so nothing epic about it....preety much one sided if you ask me.</blockquote>It adds 500DPS lol. To our mage pet. Even in a 3 mob encounter with full caster buffs it only added 1k DPS out of 9k DPS in a 9:33 second fight against a linked encounter of 3 mobs. If 1k is 20% of your DPS on linked mobs you should be ashamed of yourself. lol Yer in Confirmed with teir 4 gear and a mythical for christ's sakes. I've seen conjy with absolute garbage gear compared to yours doing over 20k on linked encounters. Seriously where do you come up with this stuff?And why do you keep sighting other posters sources? Just run ACT and parse it. It doesn't proc anywhere close to 100%. Scout pet and Fighter pet only proc it at 10%. The Mage pet procs max about 25%. The problem is directly linked to the Mage pet not the actual Proc itself. But if you haven't run ACT on all the pets you wouldn't know that...Even if you look at the parses posted here you can plainly see it's not procing at 100%. So why keep insisting it does?The damage "hits twice" and is AE if the attack used is AE so it can hit twice for every availible target, even if you were to include that double hit in your evaluation it would only be at 50% proc rate MAX.And the power proc only hits once per actual proc no matter if it's an AE hit or not. Just run ACT and see for yourself. ACT tells you everything you need to know about it. Unless the guys who put ACT together don't know their Math either...Dude thanks for the laugh though.

hellfire

01-15-2009, 09:51 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>hellfire wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>And now the kid comments come out?Why would you tell the class dev that the robe is broken in the first place? And knowing full well that the robe isn't proc'ing at 100% why would that dev say "oops my bad I set to 100%"You and your friend accuse me and others of ruining it for you but you go straight to the dev yourself and say "hey look at this ruined robe (that I happen to love and don't want fixed), look how broken it is you better fix it" -hellfireSeriously, why would you do that?To win an argument? They have a whole section on flames something like Rate a... (what's the word), that would be perfect for this little display."OMG someone told people the robe procs more than it's supposed to they are so /fail. But I showed them I went straight to the dev and told them it was broken and now it's getting nerfed." - hellfire"Did I mention I called them a kid and made fun of them about how much smarter than them I are? /win" -hellfireYou win. Seriously.It looks like we have you to thank for this epic win and on behalf of all summoner everywhere, I thank you.Seriously man you win the argument congradulations.</blockquote>Hi he isnt the class dev he is the item dev and that would be the person to bring broken item issues to.The item does proc close to 100 pct ...the info in previous post shows this as well as info from other players.....unless you are the only one that uses this special math and i think you are ...because you are the only person out there that views 80-120 pct proc rate depending on spell normilization would equall 15 pct.And i already told you why...because all that the broken robe was doing is hideing the the class issues that we have...you think bumping our dps by 20 pct from a broken item was a good thing?This is still something you dont want to admit/ and refuse to even acknowlege .Im very sorry all of these things are still to hard for you to grasp.And ive won this argument from my first post........ so nothing epic about it....preety much one sided if you ask me.</blockquote>It adds 500DPS lol. To our mage pet. Even in a 3 mob encounter with full caster buffs it only added 1k DPS out of 9k DPS in a 9:33 second fight against a linked encounter of 3 mobs. If 1k is 20% of your DPS on linked mobs you should be ashamed of yourself. lol Yer in Confirmed with teir 4 gear and a mythical for christ's sakes. I've seen conjy with absolute garbage gear compared to yours doing over 20k on linked encounters. Seriously where do you come up with this stuff?And why do you keep sighting other posters sources? Just run ACT and parse it. It doesn't proc anywhere close to 100%. Scout pet and Fighter pet only proc it at 10%. The Mage pet procs max about 25%. The problem is directly linked to the Mage pet not the actual Proc itself. But if you haven't run ACT on all the pets you wouldn't know that...Even if you look at the parses posted here you can plainly see it's not procing at 100%. So why keep insisting it does?The damage "hits twice" and is AE if the attack used is AE so it can hit twice for every availible target, even if you were to include that double hit in your evaluation it would only be at 50% proc rate MAX.And the power proc only hits once per actual proc no matter if it's an AE hit or not. Just run ACT and see for yourself. ACT tells you everything you need to know about it. Unless the guys who put ACT together don't know their Math either...Dude thanks for the laugh though.</blockquote>Hi i have had itbetween 2.5-3k dps but thanks for playing.And that 1200 out of what 7k was you........ not 20 pct but preety close.what other poster sources? most all act posts on this site is from me......scroll up i even did most of the math for you and showed ya depending if used normalized spell casting or not the proc rate is 80-120 pct and if useing normalized casting which everything in game is based on includeing procs...it is procing 100 pct.

Xil

01-15-2009, 10:15 PM

Here's what that silly ACT program has to say about Potent. I hope their math is ok because lord knows the guys who designed ACT probably half all kinds of issues with math...This is the total damage done by potent on a 25 minute fight with the pet fully on a linked 3 mob encounter the whole time, while I was killing books....<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/zennexile/PotentActualDamage.jpg" width="1024" height="102" />Here's how many times the Power Regen Proc'd on that same fight. Which is also the actual number of procs from Potent for the "entire" 25 minutes.<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/zennexile/PotentActualRegen.jpg" width="1024" height="102" />So we can see that over 25 minutes of sustained casting on 3 linked mobs Potent added 1025DPS. So about 340 DPS to each target.And we can see that over that 25 minutes of sustained casting Potent proc'd power regen 405 total times. Since potent only procs power regen once per proc whether or not the proc is AE or single target we see Potent has in fact only proc'd a total of 405 times in 25 minutes.Any questions?

hellfire

01-15-2009, 10:36 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's what that silly ACT program has to say about Potent. I hope their math is ok because lord knows the guys who designed ACT probably half all kinds of issues with math...This is the total damage done by potent on a 25 minute fight with the pet fully on a linked 3 mob encounter the whole time, while I was killing books....<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/zennexile/PotentActualDamage.jpg" width="1024" height="102" />Here's how many times the Power Regen Proc'd on that same fight. Which is also the actual number of procs from Potent for the "entire" 25 minutes.<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/zennexile/PotentActualRegen.jpg" width="1024" height="102" />So we can see that over 25 minutes of sustained casting on 3 linked mobs Potent added 1025DPS. So about 340 DPS to each target.And we can see that over that 25 minutes of sustained casting Potent proc'd power regen 405 total times. Since potent only procs power regen once per proc whether or not the proc is AE or single target we see Potent has in fact only proc'd a total of 405 times in 25 minutes.Any questions?</blockquote>Good that is about 16 proc p;er min with 1 proc a min = roughly 5 pct chance....thats 80 pct proc right...so do you have any questions?edit: actually 10 pct = 1.8 times a min so its actually about 90 pct proc chance...damm close to 100 .

Cicadi

01-15-2009, 10:48 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's what that silly ACT program has to say about Potent. I hope their math is ok because lord knows the guys who designed ACT probably half all kinds of issues with math...This is the total damage done by potent on a 25 minute fight with the pet fully on a linked 3 mob encounter the whole time, while I was killing books....<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/zennexile/PotentActualDamage.jpg" width="1024" height="102" />Here's how many times the Power Regen Proc'd on that same fight. Which is also the actual number of procs from Potent for the "entire" 25 minutes.<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/zennexile/PotentActualRegen.jpg" width="1024" height="102" />So we can see that over 25 minutes of sustained casting on 3 linked mobs Potent added 1025DPS. So about 340 DPS to each target.And we can see that over that 25 minutes of sustained casting Potent proc'd power regen 405 total times. Since potent only procs power regen once per proc whether or not the proc is AE or single target we see Potent has in fact only proc'd a total of 405 times in 25 minutes.Any questions?</blockquote>At this point I am 99% sure you are trolling but anyway:I have a parse sitting in front of (dunno how to post it), which clearly shows potent essence infusion proccing off EVERY SPELL, THAT IS A 100% PROC RATE.IT PROCS EVERY TIME THE PET CASTS A SPELL HOW MUCH CLEARER DOES IT NEED TO BEIT PROCS EVERY TIME A PET OR SWARM PET USES A COMBAT ART. THIS IS WHY THE PROC RATE APPEARS DIFFERENT FOR MELEE PETS BECAUSE IT DOES NOT PROC OFF AUTO ATTACKS.In conclusion I sincerely hope that you are trolling because i don't want to believe someone as stupid as you actually exists.

Xil

01-16-2009, 12:47 AM

<cite>Cicadian wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's what that silly ACT program has to say about Potent. I hope their math is ok because lord knows the guys who designed ACT probably half all kinds of issues with math...This is the total damage done by potent on a 25 minute fight with the pet fully on a linked 3 mob encounter the whole time, while I was killing books....<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/zennexile/PotentActualDamage.jpg" width="1024" height="102" />Here's how many times the Power Regen Proc'd on that same fight. Which is also the actual number of procs from Potent for the "entire" 25 minutes.<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/zennexile/PotentActualRegen.jpg" width="1024" height="102" />So we can see that over 25 minutes of sustained casting on 3 linked mobs Potent added 1025DPS. So about 340 DPS to each target.And we can see that over that 25 minutes of sustained casting Potent proc'd power regen 405 total times. Since potent only procs power regen once per proc whether or not the proc is AE or single target we see Potent has in fact only proc'd a total of 405 times in 25 minutes.Any questions?</blockquote>At this point I am 99% sure you are trolling but anyway:I have a parse sitting in front of (dunno how to post it), which clearly shows potent essence infusion proccing off EVERY SPELL, THAT IS A 100% PROC RATE.IT PROCS EVERY TIME THE PET CASTS A SPELL HOW MUCH CLEARER DOES IT NEED TO BEIT PROCS EVERY TIME A PET OR SWARM PET USES A COMBAT ART. THIS IS WHY THE PROC RATE APPEARS DIFFERENT FOR MELEE PETS BECAUSE IT DOES NOT PROC OFF AUTO ATTACKS.In conclusion I sincerely hope that you are trolling because i don't want to believe someone as stupid as you actually exists.</blockquote>Actually it does proc off auto attack. Imps proc it and Scout/Tank auto attacks proc it.As does Mage pet Auto Attack.And the parse posted previously that shows the timeline, very CLEARLY, shows that Potent does not proc on every spell cast. As does this post I showed you.Out of the 25 minutes of combat it procs 16 times in a minute (with considerable spell haste) which is quite a bit less than the Mage pet casts per minute.And 2.0 times per minute is 10% chance to proc a spell that takes 3 seconds total to use. As most of the Mage pet's spells take more than 3 seconds to cast and recover from that % chance is actually higher than 10%.But since I'm a troll that is all hogwash right?

Enoa

01-16-2009, 12:52 AM

This thread delivers! My favorite part is where Xil suggests that the math aditu uses in ACT is wrong and now claiming it was Bigron that has made a big deal about the robe leading to it's impending fix.Regardless, hopefully all this active discussion will lead to some dev attention to the summoner archtype. The 'fix' to the class certainly wasn' t this robe.Self-pwnage is very fun to watch.

hellfire

01-16-2009, 01:40 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cicadian wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here's what that silly ACT program has to say about Potent. I hope their math is ok because lord knows the guys who designed ACT probably half all kinds of issues with math...This is the total damage done by potent on a 25 minute fight with the pet fully on a linked 3 mob encounter the whole time, while I was killing books....<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/zennexile/PotentActualDamage.jpg" width="1024" height="102" />Here's how many times the Power Regen Proc'd on that same fight. Which is also the actual number of procs from Potent for the "entire" 25 minutes.<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/zennexile/PotentActualRegen.jpg" width="1024" height="102" />So we can see that over 25 minutes of sustained casting on 3 linked mobs Potent added 1025DPS. So about 340 DPS to each target.And we can see that over that 25 minutes of sustained casting Potent proc'd power regen 405 total times. Since potent only procs power regen once per proc whether or not the proc is AE or single target we see Potent has in fact only proc'd a total of 405 times in 25 minutes.Any questions?</blockquote>At this point I am 99% sure you are trolling but anyway:I have a parse sitting in front of (dunno how to post it), which clearly shows potent essence infusion proccing off EVERY SPELL, THAT IS A 100% PROC RATE.IT PROCS EVERY TIME THE PET CASTS A SPELL HOW MUCH CLEARER DOES IT NEED TO BEIT PROCS EVERY TIME A PET OR SWARM PET USES A COMBAT ART. THIS IS WHY THE PROC RATE APPEARS DIFFERENT FOR MELEE PETS BECAUSE IT DOES NOT PROC OFF AUTO ATTACKS.In conclusion I sincerely hope that you are trolling because i don't want to believe someone as stupid as you actually exists.</blockquote>Actually it does proc off auto attack. Imps proc it and Scout/Tank auto attacks proc it.As does Mage pet Auto Attack.And the parse posted previously that shows the timeline, very CLEARLY, shows that Potent does not proc on every spell cast. As does this post I showed you.Out of the 25 minutes of combat it procs 16 times in a minute (with considerable spell haste) which is quite a bit less than the Mage pet casts per minute.And 2.0 times per minute is 10% chance to proc a spell that takes 3 seconds total to use. As most of the Mage pet's spells take more than 3 seconds to cast and recover from that % chance is actually higher than 10%.But since I'm a troll that is all hogwash right?</blockquote>Actually 1.8 time a min.And if something is set as a percentage to proc it still follows the normalized casting so the faster your spells are to cast base wise the less chance to proc.....unless there is no pct to each cast then its just set to proc off each spell cast.Also there is a curve verse higher level mobs that goes against spells/procs thats why you can have 100 pct crit your self and not crit 100 pct of time verse mobs higher level then you.....and you actually need 108 pct crit to crit 100 pct of time verse high orange mobs........but wait why should i even be telling you this ...this is all stuff im sure you know and took into account ...correct?Also there is about 12 pct resists on the proc......seems lots of variables witch seems to be normal and changes nothing in my previous posts.

Xil

01-16-2009, 02:15 AM

<img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/zennexile/PotentEssenceTooltip.jpg" width="306" height="309" />I believe that says 2.0 does it not?I also believe that says "A successful attack" and specifically says if a melee attack procs this (which means yes melee attacks proc this) that only the primary weapon can trigger the effect.Unless of course I have fergotten how to read as well as do math...Method = "Base" Spell Cast + Recovery divided by 3 (the control value) mutliplied by the PPM divded by 20 (the control value) Increasing cast speed and recovery through buffs and equipment does not alter the method.So a spell that has a "BASE" combined 3 seconds of spell cast and recovery would be:(3/3) * (2.0/20) = .10 or 10%Any spell that had a larger combined "BASE" spell cast and recovery time would have slighty higher % chance to proc the effect.And another curious thing I have noticed is the actual Damage dealt is lower than the tooltip suggests as well as the power regen'd per tick. Well that is assuming of course ACT is accurate... Where the damage can be explained away by resists and mitigation verses those two types of damage, the power proc cannot.So it appears they have already been adjusting this silently...And if that's true this issues with this Item are already well known and have been for long enough for them to have adjusted it long before this thread was even created. Just FYI

hellfire

01-16-2009, 02:32 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><img src="http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w11/zennexile/PotentEssenceTooltip.jpg" width="306" height="309" />I believe that says 2.0 does it not?I also believe that says "A successful attack" and specifically says if a melee attack procs this (which means yes melee attacks proc this) that only the primary weapon can trigger the effect.Unless of course I have fergotten how to read as well as do math...Method = "Base" Spell Cast + Recovery divided by 3 (the control value) mutliplied by the PPM divded by 20 (the control value) Increasing cast speed and recovery through buffs and equipment does not alter the method.So a spell that has a "BASE" combined 3 seconds of spell cast and recovery would be:(3/3) * (2.0/20) = .10 or 10%Any spell that had a larger combined "BASE" spell cast and recovery time would have slighty higher % chance to proc the effect.And another curious thing I have noticed is the actual Damage dealt is lower than the tooltip suggests as well as the power regen'd per tick. Well that is assuming of course ACT is accurate... Where the damage can be explained away by resists and mitigation verses those two types of damage, the power proc cannot.So it appears they have already been adjusting this silently...And if that's true this issues with this Item are already well known and have been for long enough for them to have adjusted it long before this thread was even created. Just FYI</blockquote>A successfull attack means only melee .....so obviously they didnt it to be proccing off spells.recovery is added to every spell witch would be .5 added to each....so 3 secs +.5 im pretty sure......hence why 1.8 equalls 10 pct because of recovery values. Regen is lower cause if your aT 100 pct power then you are not regening power...there is nothing to regen...im not 100 pct sure on this...or actually your mental resists may actually be midigateing the amount of power you are reciveing and that would be another bug.

Cicadi

01-16-2009, 05:33 AM

Actually upon further testing it seems i was wrong about the spells/cas thing. It def procs off auto attack. Tested by possessing pet and just auto attacking and it still procced.However, it does seem to proc more often the more CAs/Spells the pet uses and less often the more it auto-attacks. So the myth procs it to a ridiculous degree but the scout/tank pets do it less often (but still too much). Similarly, pyro procs it a whole bunch more often than aqueous serpents.

Xil

01-16-2009, 08:41 AM

<cite>Cicadian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually upon further testing it seems i was wrong about the spells/cas thing. It def procs off auto attack. Tested by possessing pet and just auto attacking and it still procced.However, it does seem to proc more often the more CAs/Spells the pet uses and less often the more it auto-attacks. So the myth procs it to a ridiculous degree but the scout/tank pets do it less often (but still too much). Similarly, pyro procs it a whole bunch more often than aqueous serpents.</blockquote>I couldn't get the scout or the tank to proc more than 11% on the training wall. And that's pretty much where the proc is supposed to be.So if they go and adjust the proc based on the Mage/Mythical proc rate it will completely hose the summoner using Scout Pets out of any benefit to using the robe at all.And really the added DPS to the Mage pet or even the Mythical pet is small. The only issue with it is the power regen. The fact that it procs so much is a matter of semantics. It may proc too often but the effect is not overpowering to the summoner as summoner sits right now. It still falls quite short of the static DPS mark we should be seeing from our pets. I mean cry foul all you want about the tooltip. That's just semantics. What matters is the other end. Is it overpowering? No. Does it throw off archetype balance? What balance summoner is so hosed you could give them an IWIN button and you'd still have trouble getting a raid spot over that 4th enchanter, or even a group spot for that matter without a troubador in it.So why bother fixing it before summoner get reworked? Doesn't seem to be a valid reason to at all. Unless you exagerate the effectiveness of the robe loud enough that people start saying "hey that's not fair"... There would never be a reason to "fix" it. But that's where your part in this adventure comes in.Do you want to be right? Or do you want all summoners to be able to keep this little tiny bone that was thrown to us? It's up to you. The proc is a known issue. And has yet to be dealt with because people aren't making noise about it. Because it's not overpowering in any way.Do you really want to be the ones who make the noise about it and screw everyone over including yourself? Do you want to be the ones who convince others that the proc is some kind of god mode by exagerating its effectiveness? I don't think you do. I think you are just pre-occupied with being right. And when you're arguing about semantics no one ever wins. So you'll never be right anyway... This argument is a lose lose. Maybe it's time to see that and end it?

sintextblindsu

01-16-2009, 01:33 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cicadian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually upon further testing it seems i was wrong about the spells/cas thing. It def procs off auto attack. Tested by possessing pet and just auto attacking and it still procced.However, it does seem to proc more often the more CAs/Spells the pet uses and less often the more it auto-attacks. So the myth procs it to a ridiculous degree but the scout/tank pets do it less often (but still too much). Similarly, pyro procs it a whole bunch more often than aqueous serpents.</blockquote>I couldn't get the scout or the tank to proc more than 11% on the training wall. And that's pretty much where the proc is supposed to be.So if they go and adjust the proc based on the Mage/Mythical proc rate it will completely hose the summoner using Scout Pets out of any benefit to using the robe at all.And really the added DPS to the Mage pet or even the Mythical pet is small. The only issue with it is the power regen. The fact that it procs so much is a matter of semantics. It may proc too often but the effect is not overpowering to the summoner as summoner sits right now. It still falls quite short of the static DPS mark we should be seeing from our pets. I mean cry foul all you want about the tooltip. That's just semantics. What matters is the other end. Is it overpowering? No. Does it throw off archetype balance? What balance summoner is so hosed you could give them an IWIN button and you'd still have trouble getting a raid spot over that 4th enchanter, or even a group spot for that matter without a troubador in it.So why bother fixing it before summoner get reworked? Doesn't seem to be a valid reason to at all. Unless you exagerate the effectiveness of the robe loud enough that people start saying "hey that's not fair"... There would never be a reason to "fix" it. But that's where your part in this adventure comes in.Do you want to be right? Or do you want all summoners to be able to keep this little tiny bone that was thrown to us? It's up to you. The proc is a known issue. And has yet to be dealt with because people aren't making noise about it. Because it's not overpowering in any way.Do you really want to be the ones who make the noise about it and screw everyone over including yourself? Do you want to be the ones who convince others that the proc is some kind of god mode by exagerating its effectiveness? I don't think you do. I think you are just pre-occupied with being right. And when you're arguing about semantics no one ever wins. So you'll never be right anyway... This argument is a lose lose. Maybe it's time to see that and end it?</blockquote>lol.. Xil was it not you who posted parses with it? yes the robe is broken, yes one item should not balance a class, yes summoners could have taken advantage from this item till the next LU maybe longer but Xil ruined that for summoenrs.

Enoa

01-16-2009, 07:39 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cicadian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually upon further testing it seems i was wrong about the spells/cas thing. It def procs off auto attack. Tested by possessing pet and just auto attacking and it still procced.However, it does seem to proc more often the more CAs/Spells the pet uses and less often the more it auto-attacks. So the myth procs it to a ridiculous degree but the scout/tank pets do it less often (but still too much). Similarly, pyro procs it a whole bunch more often than aqueous serpents.</blockquote>I couldn't get the scout or the tank to proc more than 11% on the training wall. And that's pretty much where the proc is supposed to be.So if they go and adjust the proc based on the Mage/Mythical proc rate it will completely hose the summoner using Scout Pets out of any benefit to using the robe at all.And really the added DPS to the Mage pet or even the Mythical pet is small. The only issue with it is the power regen. The fact that it procs so much is a matter of semantics. It may proc too often but the effect is not overpowering to the summoner as summoner sits right now. It still falls quite short of the static DPS mark we should be seeing from our pets. I mean cry foul all you want about the tooltip. That's just semantics. What matters is the other end. Is it overpowering? No. Does it throw off archetype balance? What balance summoner is so hosed you could give them an IWIN button and you'd still have trouble getting a raid spot over that 4th enchanter, or even a group spot for that matter without a troubador in it.So why bother fixing it before summoner get reworked? Doesn't seem to be a valid reason to at all. Unless you exagerate the effectiveness of the robe loud enough that people start saying "hey that's not fair"... There would never be a reason to "fix" it. But that's where your part in this adventure comes in.Do you want to be right? Or do you want all summoners to be able to keep this little tiny bone that was thrown to us? It's up to you. The proc is a known issue. And has yet to be dealt with because people aren't making noise about it. Because it's not overpowering in any way.Do you really want to be the ones who make the noise about it and screw everyone over including yourself? Do you want to be the ones who convince others that the proc is some kind of god mode by exagerating its effectiveness? I don't think you do. I think you are just pre-occupied with being right. And when you're arguing about semantics no one ever wins. So you'll never be right anyway... This argument is a lose lose. Maybe it's time to see that and end it?</blockquote>So an item that is doing 10x more dps than your next best proc is not over powered? And add that it does more power regen than anything else in the game. It's effect on your own personal dps and the effect on the groups power is more than any other single item in the game including any avatar drop I have seen linked. And it's bought off a merchant!!!! Sounds pretty powerful to me.I dont think you understand the word 'semantics'. Don't try to cover up the fact that you are wrong by saying it's semantics. It is no mystery how proc's work. There is no semantics, there is no interpretation. Procs on A successful attack 1.8 x / min has a very defined meaning and that meaning has been defined explicitely for us. You are claiming the item is not broken and not overpowered... everyone else is saying it is overpoweredly broken.... no one is arguing over semantics.I think most of us are pre-occupied with accuracy and a correct representation of the issues summoners face... not with being right. They will fix it eventually. The reason they haven't fixed it yet is until this thread (and the spell vs scout damage thread in combat section) no one was making a big deal about it. They will fix it earlier because of YOU. It wont be tomorrow... or even next week but it will certainly be earlier because of YOU. It took them 1 year to fix overloaded heals (a overpowered healer item). no one made a stink about it and all classes benefited (though not equally). Summoners will not be so lucky.

Xil

01-16-2009, 08:08 PM

<cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cicadian wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually upon further testing it seems i was wrong about the spells/cas thing. It def procs off auto attack. Tested by possessing pet and just auto attacking and it still procced.However, it does seem to proc more often the more CAs/Spells the pet uses and less often the more it auto-attacks. So the myth procs it to a ridiculous degree but the scout/tank pets do it less often (but still too much). Similarly, pyro procs it a whole bunch more often than aqueous serpents.</blockquote>I couldn't get the scout or the tank to proc more than 11% on the training wall. And that's pretty much where the proc is supposed to be.So if they go and adjust the proc based on the Mage/Mythical proc rate it will completely hose the summoner using Scout Pets out of any benefit to using the robe at all.And really the added DPS to the Mage pet or even the Mythical pet is small. The only issue with it is the power regen. The fact that it procs so much is a matter of semantics. It may proc too often but the effect is not overpowering to the summoner as summoner sits right now. It still falls quite short of the static DPS mark we should be seeing from our pets. I mean cry foul all you want about the tooltip. That's just semantics. What matters is the other end. Is it overpowering? No. Does it throw off archetype balance? What balance summoner is so hosed you could give them an IWIN button and you'd still have trouble getting a raid spot over that 4th enchanter, or even a group spot for that matter without a troubador in it.So why bother fixing it before summoner get reworked? Doesn't seem to be a valid reason to at all. Unless you exagerate the effectiveness of the robe loud enough that people start saying "hey that's not fair"... There would never be a reason to "fix" it. But that's where your part in this adventure comes in.Do you want to be right? Or do you want all summoners to be able to keep this little tiny bone that was thrown to us? It's up to you. The proc is a known issue. And has yet to be dealt with because people aren't making noise about it. Because it's not overpowering in any way.Do you really want to be the ones who make the noise about it and screw everyone over including yourself? Do you want to be the ones who convince others that the proc is some kind of god mode by exagerating its effectiveness? I don't think you do. I think you are just pre-occupied with being right. And when you're arguing about semantics no one ever wins. So you'll never be right anyway... This argument is a lose lose. Maybe it's time to see that and end it?</blockquote>So an item that is doing 10x more dps than your next best proc is not over powered? And add that it does more power regen than anything else in the game. It's effect on your own personal dps and the effect on the groups power is more than any other single item in the game including any avatar drop I have seen linked. And it's bought off a merchant!!!! Sounds pretty powerful to me.I dont think you understand the word 'semantics'. Don't try to cover up the fact that you are wrong by saying it's semantics. It is no mystery how proc's work. There is no semantics, there is no interpretation. Procs on A successful attack 1.8 x / min has a very defined meaning and that meaning has been defined explicitely for us. You are claiming the item is not broken and not overpowered... everyone else is saying it is overpoweredly broken.... no one is arguing over semantics.I think most of us are pre-occupied with accuracy and a correct representation of the issues summoners face... not with being right. They will fix it eventually. The reason they haven't fixed it yet is until this thread (and the spell vs scout damage thread in combat section) no one was making a big deal about it. They will fix it earlier because of YOU. It wont be tomorrow... or even next week but it will certainly be earlier because of YOU. It took them 1 year to fix overloaded heals (a overpowered healer item). no one made a stink about it and all classes benefited (though not equally). Summoners will not be so lucky.</blockquote>And semantics: the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text; "a petty argument about semantics"No matter what the tool tip says the "application" of the item in question is where you determine what is overpowered and what is not. And if you would have even botherd to read even this one "whole" post you'd see that I suggested clearly that the power regen should be reduced but the damage added to the static DPS of the mage pet doesn't need to be adjusted because it is only a small amount that doesn't affect the top end.And actually they are fixing it because Bigron aka hellfire went straight to the item dev and told them it was procing 100% and giving us unlimited power and that it needs to be fixed right now. Otherwise it woulda been left alone.Incase you missed the previous posts in this thread. hellfire tells you exactly what he did to get this robe nerfed as soon as possible.I know just blurting responses is much easier when you see something in a post you don't like. But read back a little. It might enlighten you.

Enoa

01-16-2009, 08:19 PM

I've read it all.Bigron inquired about the piece.Fireflyte said it was proc'ing 100% not Bigron. Dev's read the forums. Naaomi bugged it after seeing your post in combat section with your 'uber' parse breakdown. Fix priority will be based on wheter people are making a fuss about it. The fact that you continue to claim it is not broken and fight with people about it IS the fuss. Dont shift the blame to someone else.

Xil

01-16-2009, 08:35 PM

<cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've read it all.Bigron inquired about the piece.Fireflyte said it was proc'ing 100% not Bigron. Dev's read the forums. Naaomi bugged it after seeing your post in combat section with your 'uber' parse breakdown. Fix priority will be based on wheter people are making a fuss about it. The fact that you continue to claim it is not broken and fight with people about it IS the fuss. Dont shift the blame to someone else. </blockquote>Keep tellin yourself that. I'm not the one who went to the item dev and said "fix this item I use because I want to win an argument on the forums"Fact of the matter is the robe doesn't do what those same people claim it does. It adds a small amount of static DPS to our Mage pet ONLY. This is what all the summoner shard armor is "SUPPOSED" to do but in fact doesn't do at all other than this single item. The power regen is excesssive but that could have been adjusted.So basically the added bonus to our pet, instead of being spread across the whole set like intended, was bunched into a single item. But now since people went to the item dev directly and made a "fuss" about it to win an argument on the internet (still r3tarded) they are taking away the only increase to pet DPS our "ENTIRE" set provided.Which by the way makes the entire set pretty well worthless to summoner as the crit mit on it is not even close to enough to keep from being 1 shot in all critically multiplied AE's even with 1500+ int (our crit mit mod).We don't need the 2 piece bonus because we hit the cap long before that matters, the 3 piece bonus is almost useful but since it doesn't do what is says it does either it's hosed, and the 5 piece bonus adds a whopping 25 DPS total.So have your semantics you screwed yourself over with them.And yes the other side of this is "well if they see that it's not effective they will fix it" right? WRONG they never have and never will take this approach. So summoners trying to show the devs that summoner is so overwhelmingly broken does NOTHING for us but make summoner the very last thing they will consider working on.

hellfire

01-16-2009, 09:13 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've read it all.Bigron inquired about the piece.Fireflyte said it was proc'ing 100% not Bigron. Dev's read the forums. Naaomi bugged it after seeing your post in combat section with your 'uber' parse breakdown. Fix priority will be based on wheter people are making a fuss about it. The fact that you continue to claim it is not broken and fight with people about it IS the fuss. Dont shift the blame to someone else. </blockquote>Keep tellin yourself that. I'm not the one who went to the item dev and said "fix this item I use because I want to win an argument on the forums"Fact of the matter is the robe doesn't do what those same people claim it does. It adds a small amount of static DPS to our Mage pet ONLY. This is what all the summoner shard armor is "SUPPOSED" to do but in fact doesn't do at all other than this single item. The power regen is excesssive but that could have been adjusted.So basically the added bonus to our pet, instead of being spread across the whole set like intended, was bunched into a single item. But now since people went to the item dev directly and made a "fuss" about it to win an argument on the internet (still r3tarded) they are taking away the only increase to pet DPS our "ENTIRE" set provided.Which by the way makes the entire set pretty well worthless to summoner as the crit mit on it is not even close to enough to keep from being 1 shot in all critically multiplied AE's even with 1500+ int (our crit mit mod).We don't need the 2 piece bonus because we hit the cap long before that matters, the 3 piece bonus is almost useful but since it doesn't do what is says it does either it's hosed, and the 5 piece bonus adds a whopping 25 DPS total.So have your semantics you screwed yourself over with them.And yes the other side of this is "well if they see that it's not effective they will fix it" right? WRONG they never have and never will take this approach. So summoners trying to show the devs that summoner is so overwhelmingly broken does NOTHING for us but make summoner the very last thing they will consider working on.</blockquote>Awww....as i did in the other thread in general forum my heart is really breaking for you man..../tear.You dont know what approach they take ...[Removed for Content] do you know you have been to this board for 6 months....and in game 7 ish?You dont know that people obviously talk to devs all the time and get info from themYou dont know the difference between spell reuse and recoveryYou dont know how the spell normilization worksYou dont know the difference between fix and nerfAnd you still dont relize that the robe is broken as all helland can replace both a chanter and bard combine in mana regen to a group/sigh so many thing you still dont seem to know or every want to accept as fact.sorry you takeing this so personal as all this is a vendetta against you.... /tear your breaking my heart

Enoa

01-16-2009, 09:27 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite>Keep tellin yourself that. I'm not the one who went to the item dev and said "fix this item I use because I want to win an argument on the forums"No need to tell myself that... i'm telling you that and multiple other people in this thread are telling you that. I think the answer is A. 10 other people think the answer is B. The answer might actually be B. Fact of the matter is the robe doesn't do what those same people claim it does. It adds a small amount of static DPS to our Mage pet ONLY. This is what all the summoner shard armor is "SUPPOSED" to do but in fact doesn't do at all other than this single item. The power regen is excesssive but that could have been adjusted.14% to your dps is not a small amount. So basically the added bonus to our pet, instead of being spread across the whole set like intended, was bunched into a single item. But now since people went to the item dev directly and made a "fuss" about it to win an argument on the internet (still r3tarded) they are taking away the only increase to pet DPS our "ENTIRE" set provided.It appears you are the trying hardest to win the argument... everyone else has found something better to do... and im just killing time in the forums till raid time.Which by the way makes the entire set pretty well worthless to summoner as the crit mit on it is not even close to enough to keep from being 1 shot in all critically multiplied AE's even with 1500+ int (our crit mit mod).We don't need the 2 piece bonus because we hit the cap long before that matters, the 3 piece bonus is almost useful but since it doesn't do what is says it does either it's hosed, and the 5 piece bonus adds a whopping 25 DPS total.All classes t2 set armor have the same issue with crit mit. seriously who cares about legendary set effects.So have your semantics you screwed yourself over with them.This doesn't even make sence.And yes the other side of this is "well if they see that it's not effective they will fix it" right? WRONG they never have and never will take this approach. So summoners trying to show the devs that summoner is so overwhelmingly broken does NOTHING for us but make summoner the very last thing they will consider working on.You fail to realize that the pet stat affecting gear that is so abundant in TSO is a result of feedback from summoners in /feedback and forum threads. In fact Aerlick has recognized the issue and said it will be addressed. With LU51, tank balancing is a priority and will be for the next few hotfixes i imagine. IF people like YOU keep claiming necros are t1 dps and any necro who can't top the parse of a stacked raid needs to learn2play has the potential to delay any promised fixes. Realistic feedback about summoner lack of utility and chanter-like dps may actually help the process when they do fix the classes. Now agree and go away.</blockquote>

Xil

01-16-2009, 09:44 PM

<cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've read it all.Bigron inquired about the piece.Fireflyte said it was proc'ing 100% not Bigron. Dev's read the forums. Naaomi bugged it after seeing your post in combat section with your 'uber' parse breakdown. Fix priority will be based on wheter people are making a fuss about it. The fact that you continue to claim it is not broken and fight with people about it IS the fuss. Dont shift the blame to someone else. </blockquote>Keep tellin yourself that. I'm not the one who went to the item dev and said "fix this item I use because I want to win an argument on the forums"Fact of the matter is the robe doesn't do what those same people claim it does. It adds a small amount of static DPS to our Mage pet ONLY. This is what all the summoner shard armor is "SUPPOSED" to do but in fact doesn't do at all other than this single item. The power regen is excesssive but that could have been adjusted.So basically the added bonus to our pet, instead of being spread across the whole set like intended, was bunched into a single item. But now since people went to the item dev directly and made a "fuss" about it to win an argument on the internet (still r3tarded) they are taking away the only increase to pet DPS our "ENTIRE" set provided.Which by the way makes the entire set pretty well worthless to summoner as the crit mit on it is not even close to enough to keep from being 1 shot in all critically multiplied AE's even with 1500+ int (our crit mit mod).We don't need the 2 piece bonus because we hit the cap long before that matters, the 3 piece bonus is almost useful but since it doesn't do what is says it does either it's hosed, and the 5 piece bonus adds a whopping 25 DPS total.So have your semantics you screwed yourself over with them.And yes the other side of this is "well if they see that it's not effective they will fix it" right? WRONG they never have and never will take this approach. So summoners trying to show the devs that summoner is so overwhelmingly broken does NOTHING for us but make summoner the very last thing they will consider working on.</blockquote>Awww....as i did in the other thread in general forum my heart is really breaking for you man..../tear.You dont know what approach they take ...[Removed for Content] do you know you have been to this board for 6 months....and in game 7 ish?You dont know that people obviously talk to devs all the time and get info from themYou dont know the difference between spell reuse and recoveryYou dont know how the spell normilization worksYou dont know the difference between fix and nerfAnd you still dont relize that the robe is broken as all helland can replace both a chanter and bard combine in mana regen to a group/sigh so many thing you still dont seem to know or every want to accept as fact.sorry you takeing this so personal as all this is a vendetta against you.... /tear your breaking my heart</blockquote>Rofl all to win an argument.You lied about the robe from the begining to make yourself sound better and to explain away my ability to parse as an exploit of a broken robe remember? OMG YOU HAXED THE PARSE WITH EXPLOITED ITEMS... that do 350 DPS tops... wait no it needs to do 3k DPS there we go now he really HAXED it. lolYou know as well as anyone the robe only adds 350 to 400 DPS per target no matter what the circumstances but because that does not support the "zomg you can't parse with the broken robe theory" you have to completely exagerate the effect of the robe and convince others of this as well since they are stupid enough to believe you based on the fact that you've been trolling these boards for a long time.You've produced nothing but lies and exagerations. Where's the fact? Up until I linked the [Removed for Content] robe you were still convinced it was a 1.8 times per minute proc. It's almost as if instead of actually looking at it yourself and parsing it yourself you just hung all the conflicting info on the wall and threw a dart and whatever it landed on your rolled with.And Enoa, If 350 to 400 DPS is 14% of your DPS just delete yer characters and walk away. You've failed.

Enoa

01-16-2009, 09:52 PM

your parse in the other forum channelpotent infusion did 1400 of your total 9800 parse. roughly 14%.

Xil

01-16-2009, 10:06 PM

<cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>your parse in the other forum channelpotent infusion did 1400 of your total 9800 parse. roughly 14%.</blockquote>Yeah and dvide that by 3 and what do you have? It's a linked 3 mob encounter.1400/3 = 450 DPS per target? Sound kinda familiar? No go check the actual numbers since it wasn't 1400 was it. So less than 450 DPS per target?Wow, math is fun.And also don't forget to consider the fact that my DPS was actually well over 12k and in quite a few places well over 15k on that same fight.The script on that fight makes it impossible to kill the librarians until the books stop spawning so when you kill them down to 0% they sit there for a period of time and you can't do any damage to them. And there's also the fact that I had to stop doing damage to rez the fury and help heal the group while the fury recovered.But lets go a head and overlook all of that because it doesn't matter the robe does exactly the same amount of DPS no matter what the circumstances are.

Enoa

01-16-2009, 10:30 PM

You go ahead and divide it by whatever you want. lol

Sabutai

01-16-2009, 11:41 PM

<cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>You go ahead and divide it by whatever you want. lol</blockquote>He likes division. Kinda like the holy grail to him. If he can divide by enough things he can make himself smarter by exaggerating claims. Also the 5pc does just a tad more than 25 dps, thanks for playing though.

Xil

01-16-2009, 11:47 PM

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>You go ahead and divide it by whatever you want. lol</blockquote>He likes division. Kinda like the holy grail to him. If he can divide by enough things he can make himself smarter by exaggerating claims. Also the 5pc does just a tad more than 25 dps, thanks for playing though.</blockquote>Does it?Most I've ever seen it add is 50 DPS... And that's with a fully caster buffed group....

de lori

01-17-2009, 03:07 AM

/sarcasm onif you guys actually bother to follow Xils math you'll see he is quite correct<img src="http://5qdnow.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pjdD8Sn1LwAHQ9h9spq9ZoK0wpayMrraJ8Q-0oOilV9_jzUXuXK0S19MDXyqw9xzmjPee7Ne77KvCgED6WI0GB w/Potent3.jpg" width="1101" height="754" />Now i know this looks like potent did over 4k (19%) of my dps...however:you need to divide that by 8 as there were 8 mobs in that encounter....also....remember that potent procs twice each time.....so divide that by 2 again and you see that potent is actually only adding alittle over 250dps to me...only a little bit more than my mythical proc.this works out to exactly......1 and a bit % of my dps........seems perfectly reasonable to me.also the max hit may look like 960....but remember i had all my summoner debuffs on the mob so he was completely debuffed.....you also have to divde that by 2 because recast is the same as recovery.....so again you can see potent never hit for more than 450 ever under any circumstances........well 480 but that just semantics/sarcasm off

Cicadi

01-17-2009, 03:55 AM

Best post in the thread right there.

Xil

01-17-2009, 04:22 AM

<cite>Charayne@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now i know this looks like potent did over 4k (19%) of my dps...however:you need to divide that by 8 as there were 8 mobs in that encounter....also....remember that potent procs twice each time.....so divide that by 2 again and you see that potent is actually only adding alittle over 250dps to me...only a little bit more than my mythical proc.this works out to exactly......1 and a bit % of my dps........seems perfectly reasonable to me.also the max hit may look like 960....but remember i had all my summoner debuffs on the mob so he was completely debuffed.....you also have to divde that by 2 because recast is the same as recovery.....so again you can see potent never hit for more than 450 ever under any circumstances........well 480 but that just semantics/sarcasm off</blockquote>So fully raid buffed it's adding 500DPS to your pet total per mob. And doing between 350 and 960 per tick.So at that level of progression where your DPS is at its absolute or almost absolute highest and you have the absolute best mods possible in a raid setting the max it adds to a single target as far as DPS is conserned is 500?And no you divide it by 2 again to find the total hits. Not the DPS =P If I hit bloodcloud on 8 mobs and they die in 3 seconds my bloodcloud does 6k DPS. Does that mean it's a 6k DPS spell? sure doesn'tWhy doesn't anyone parse a single target fight? And why is every single parse from raids on AE fights with every imaginable spell mod possible...Does it not occur to you guys that all the spell mods and AE fights at that level completely skew the actual effect of the spell?They call that padding. Making something appear larger than it is...Why not just link a single target fight? Instead of trying to use a padded parse to prove me wrong prove me wrong with the actual single target DPS you get from the proc.I mean I'm completely wrong right so why not show me how completely wrong I am instead of dancing around it?

hellfire

01-17-2009, 04:49 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Charayne@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now i know this looks like potent did over 4k (19%) of my dps...however:you need to divide that by 8 as there were 8 mobs in that encounter....also....remember that potent procs twice each time.....so divide that by 2 again and you see that potent is actually only adding alittle over 250dps to me...only a little bit more than my mythical proc.this works out to exactly......1 and a bit % of my dps........seems perfectly reasonable to me.also the max hit may look like 960....but remember i had all my summoner debuffs on the mob so he was completely debuffed.....you also have to divde that by 2 because recast is the same as recovery.....so again you can see potent never hit for more than 450 ever under any circumstances........well 480 but that just semantics/sarcasm off</blockquote>So fully raid buffed it's adding 500DPS to your pet total per mob. And doing between 350 and 960 per tick.So at that level of progression where your DPS is at its absolute or almost absolute highest and you have the absolute best mods possible in a raid setting the max it adds to a single target as far as DPS is conserned is 500?And no you divide it by 2 again to find the total hits. Not the DPS =P If I hit bloodcloud on 8 mobs and they die in 3 seconds my bloodcloud does 6k DPS. Does that mean it's a 6k DPS spell? sure doesn'tWhy doesn't anyone parse a single target fight? And why is every single parse from raids on AE fights with every imaginable spell mod possible...Does it not occur to you guys that all the spell mods and AE fights at that level completely skew the actual effect of the spell?They call that padding. Making something appear larger than it is...Why not just link a single target fight? Instead of trying to use a padded parse to prove me wrong prove me wrong with the actual single target DPS you get from the proc.I mean I'm completely wrong right so why not show me how completely wrong I am instead of dancing around it?</blockquote>well since in the other thread i showed about 1400 for single target...id say you are wrong yet again.Its not 500 a mob...mobs all die at different time ..there is no encounter in game where all mobs die at same time ..unless its a script.Dont come into other threads and try this nonsense...because in the other thread i have single target 3 mob target and 8 mob encounter.The first parse is a single target parse .....And [Removed for Content] do you mean padding ...like how buffs effect your spells so they do more damage then they are based to ....or gear that increases it ........or debuffs to the mob?Damm kid do you need another class in eq2 again?

Sabutai

01-17-2009, 12:33 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>You go ahead and divide it by whatever you want. lol</blockquote>He likes division. Kinda like the holy grail to him. If he can divide by enough things he can make himself smarter by exaggerating claims. Also the 5pc does just a tad more than 25 dps, thanks for playing though.</blockquote>Does it?Most I've ever seen it add is 50 DPS... And that's with a fully caster buffed group....</blockquote>I do between 75 and 200 with it, so guess mine is just better than yours i guess

Xil

01-17-2009, 12:54 PM

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>You go ahead and divide it by whatever you want. lol</blockquote>He likes division. Kinda like the holy grail to him. If he can divide by enough things he can make himself smarter by exaggerating claims. Also the 5pc does just a tad more than 25 dps, thanks for playing though.</blockquote>Does it?Most I've ever seen it add is 50 DPS... And that's with a fully caster buffed group....</blockquote>I do between 75 and 200 with it, so guess mine is just better than yours i guess</blockquote>Yer not even a Necro anymore... why do you post here? And you don't even wear the 5 piece set...Does anyone who's been posting here even play necro anymore?

Enoa

01-17-2009, 04:44 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yer not even a Necro anymore... why do you post here? And you don't even wear the 5 piece set...Does anyone who's been posting here even play necro anymore?</blockquote>Topic is relevant to all summoners. I'd support moving it to Items and Equipments. More people to particpate in the lolz. And yes ... i play a necro. But why would a necro post in these forums when you've made it impossible to have any kind of real discussion about necromancers without dominating threads with idiotic claims, constant learn2play, and insults to anyone who challenges the BS you spew.

Necrodeath79

01-17-2009, 07:08 PM

Xil the reason the devs haven't done anything is because your a non stop laugh and they like it when people do what you are doing..And that is prove that the vocal minority can get things so wrong that its laughable & at times and they let you keep diging yourself a hole just because its funny to them.My post count is low for 1 reason and 1 reason only because Im not perfect, and when you post something false people will bury you in a shallow grave in short order. But keep it up it is entertaining if nothing else.The robe is broken and fyre has already addressed it and it will be fixed. and like all the other shard armor it will be, "Meh" when fixed. Sucks for the people that used it as a crutch, but for the rest of us who haven't needed it to make our selves somewhat more useful, we will keep on keeping on.Love ya xil and keep it up you make my day, everyday.Pest

Xil

01-18-2009, 02:33 AM

<cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yer not even a Necro anymore... why do you post here? And you don't even wear the 5 piece set...Does anyone who's been posting here even play necro anymore?</blockquote>Topic is relevant to all summoners. I'd support moving it to Items and Equipments. More people to particpate in the lolz. And yes ... i play a necro. But why would a necro post in these forums when you've made it impossible to have any kind of real discussion about necromancers without dominating threads with idiotic claims, constant learn2play, and insults to anyone who challenges the BS you spew.</blockquote>Because most people realise that the 4 people here total that spend all their time flaming me are just forum trolls that know how to avoid breaking the rules.And they also actually read through a posts and consider the context before they post things because they don't have an insane and overwhelming desire to prove other people wrong to validate their existance as somehow useful...But by all means flame away. No one is listening anyway right. heh

Enoa

01-18-2009, 04:29 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Because most people realise that the 4 people here total that spend all their time flaming me are just forum trolls that know how to avoid breaking the rules.And they also actually read through a posts and consider the context before they post things because they don't have an insane and overwhelming desire to prove other people wrong to validate their existance as somehow useful...But by all means flame away. No one is listening anyway right. heh</blockquote>Flaming you? You mean correcting you. What if someone who actually reads these forums is trying to learn something about how this game works and they read that POM procs on every dot tic. It would be wrong to not correct that. think of all the things you've learned this week. HOw procs work. how POM works. How to calculate what a proc rate is. What Frigid Gift is. How Proc's Dont Proc Procs. That dots dont proc POM on every tic. And last week you learned the difference between base damage and spell damage in regards to the Gold Tempered Mask. You've been helped considerably i would say. Yet you claim to be flamed and you wrongly accuse Bigron of doctoring a parse... and when you were proven wrong, yet again, you dont admit it or appologize. And you've told multipe people in the necro forums to Learn2Play when clearly they have more knowledge of game mechanics than you. That might count as flaming and trolling no?I'm not sure what context you are referring to... everyones on the same page but you.

Xil

01-18-2009, 11:45 PM

<cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Because most people realise that the 4 people here total that spend all their time flaming me are just forum trolls that know how to avoid breaking the rules.And they also actually read through a posts and consider the context before they post things because they don't have an insane and overwhelming desire to prove other people wrong to validate their existance as somehow useful...But by all means flame away. No one is listening anyway right. heh</blockquote>Flaming you? You mean correcting you. No no correcting me would have been fine. But picking out a small piece of info and using it to discredit an entire post and any previous previous post is trolling and flaming. It's also a logical fallacy. It would be like if I described to you how to adjust the timing belt on your car to increase miles per gallon and accidentally said your car was red instead of green, and by making that mistake you take the entire conversation and nullify it as false because the car isn't red it's green so therefor I must be wrong about everything else I said as well. That would be kinda stupid of you wouldn't it. Hence the whole fallacy thing.What if someone who actually reads these forums is trying to learn something about how this game works and they read that POM procs on every dot tic. It would be wrong to not correct that. think of all the things you've learned this week. HOw procs work. how POM works. How to calculate what a proc rate is. What Frigid Gift is. How Proc's Dont Proc Procs. That dots dont proc POM on every tic. Anything taken out of context can be made to be whatever you want it to be. POM procing on dot ticks was actually from the mouth of an Illusionist. I just repeated it because I figured they had some reason to believe it did or would not have said it... Maybe it was broken and they fixed it?And last week you learned the difference between base damage and spell damage in regards to the Gold Tempered Mask. The proc adds 10% now. It only applied to +spell damage before TSO and that made it kinda useless. Now it applies to the entire pool. SO... that means "you" just learned something too right?You've been helped considerably i would say. Yet you claim to be flamed and you wrongly accuse Bigron of doctoring a parse... and when you were proven wrong, yet again, you dont admit it or appologize. I accused him of fixing it which is completely true. I asked for a parse of the actual DPS the Proc adds to his DPS and instead he posted what the proc adds to DPS when altered by every availible caster buff in the game on an 8 mob linked encounter. Hense the whole "It says cold damage" thing. So in fact he did "fix" the parse to show much higher results that what I was suggesting. In order to win an argument he "fixed" the parse to discredit my assesment.And you've told multipe people in the necro forums to Learn2Play Actually that was just Dav... and that was in direct response to previous flaming when clearly they have more knowledge of game mechanics than you. That might count as flaming and trolling no? Knowledge and application are two different things... That's why they say teachers teach because they cannot "do"...I'm not sure what context you are referring to... everyones on the same page but you. Everyone is 4 people? Well 5 now including you? That's kinda sad...</blockquote>

Necrodeath79

01-19-2009, 12:15 AM

OK, please, oh please, stop Xil we get it we get it, you got a new video game and your parents just let ya move the computer to your room so your excited to post all your new ideas and see how high you can get your post count. Please post when you have something new to add to this thread about the robe, I have had just about enough of coming here only to see another "Oh poor me" post from you. Can we all stop posting about the robe? Its broken and its getting fixed, lets move on to hopefully getting the class touched up.pest

Xil

01-19-2009, 12:18 AM

<cite>Necrodeath79 wrote:</cite><blockquote>OK, please, oh please, stop Xil we get it we get it, you got a new video game and your parents just let ya move the computer to your room so your excited to post all your new ideas and see how high you can get your post count. Please post when you have something new to add to this thread about the robe, I have had just about enough of coming here only to see another "Oh poor me" post from you. Can we all stop posting about the robe? Its broken and its getting fixed, lets move on to hopefully getting the class touched up.pest</blockquote>But if I don't give you something to flame you'd have no reason to post at all pest and I don't want you to feel left out...

Sabutai

01-19-2009, 12:25 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Because most people realise that the 4 people here total that spend all their time flaming me are just forum trolls that know how to avoid breaking the rules.And they also actually read through a posts and consider the context before they post things because they don't have an insane and overwhelming desire to prove other people wrong to validate their existance as somehow useful...But by all means flame away. No one is listening anyway right. heh</blockquote>Flaming you? You mean correcting you. No no correcting me would have been fine. But picking out a small piece of info and using it to discredit an entire post and any previous previous post is trolling and flaming. It's also a logical fallacy. It would be like if I described to you how to adjust the timing belt on your car to increase miles per gallon and accidentally said your car was red instead of green, and by making that mistake you take the entire conversation and nullify it as false because the car isn't red it's green so therefor I must be wrong about everything else I said as well. That would be kinda stupid of you wouldn't it. Hence the whole fallacy thing.What if someone who actually reads these forums is trying to learn something about how this game works and they read that POM procs on every dot tic. It would be wrong to not correct that. think of all the things you've learned this week. HOw procs work. how POM works. How to calculate what a proc rate is. What Frigid Gift is. How Proc's Dont Proc Procs. That dots dont proc POM on every tic. Anything taken out of context can be made to be whatever you want it to be. POM procing on dot ticks was actually from the mouth of an Illusionist. I just repeated it because I figured they had some reason to believe it did or would not have said it... Maybe it was broken and they fixed it?And last week you learned the difference between base damage and spell damage in regards to the Gold Tempered Mask. The proc adds 10% now. It only applied to +spell damage before TSO and that made it kinda useless. Now it applies to the entire pool. SO... that means "you" just learned something too right?You've been helped considerably i would say. Yet you claim to be flamed and you wrongly accuse Bigron of doctoring a parse... and when you were proven wrong, yet again, you dont admit it or appologize. I accused him of fixing it which is completely true. I asked for a parse of the actual DPS the Proc adds to his DPS and instead he posted what the proc adds to DPS when altered by every availible caster buff in the game on an 8 mob linked encounter. Hense the whole "It says cold damage" thing. So in fact he did "fix" the parse to show much higher results that what I was suggesting. In order to win an argument he "fixed" the parse to discredit my assesment.And you've told multipe people in the necro forums to Learn2Play Actually that was just Dav... and that was in direct response to previous flaming when clearly they have more knowledge of game mechanics than you. That might count as flaming and trolling no? Knowledge and application are two different things... That's why they say teachers teach because they cannot "do"...I'm not sure what context you are referring to... everyones on the same page but you. Everyone is 4 people? Well 5 now including you? That's kinda sad...</blockquote></blockquote>how can you 'fix a parse'? The only thing that would change how much dps this robe does is from raid debuffs. The cold dmg on the parse is listed because wizards turn their group members spell dmg into cold, it doesn't add anything to it. And as far as I know there are no items that a summoner can wear that increases the base dmg to the pet which is where the damage is coming from.Also advocating that the damage on this is adequate is just a farse. We actually WANT the class fixed, and when the devs look at the damage logs from summoners they will see overall numbers without digging more, so WANTING this item fixed brings the problems to the forefront more readily then them digging for the information.The thing about wanting gear to fix the class is also wrong whoever posted that. We don't want gear to fix the class we want our gear to effect our pets which is a mechanic issue not a gear one. Fixing it with broken items like this just cover up the real issue which is gear scaling and pet dps.

de lori

01-19-2009, 12:52 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>The proc does a max of 408 damage and that's when it crits. That's it. Summoner debuffs already put the damage we do at the cap in herioc content without extra debuffs.I'm not missing anything. It's a static 350 to 400 DPS per target no matter what the circumstances are. Doesn't matter if you have your mythical and are in a perfectly stacked mage group with perfect overlapping debuffs and all the spell haste in the world. The spell hits for a max of 408 damage per target and can only proc (even at the fabled 100%) as many times as our pet's slow [Removed for Content]spells can cast and refreash.There's no twisting of logic here. It's straight forward absolute fact.Look at the parses. Parse if yourself. It's completely impossible to do any more than that. The garbage about 14 to 20% of our DPS was from the Mage pet Parsing BY ITSELF on a linked encounter wich multiplies all the damage done by each target present. 20% of our MAGE PET's DAMAGE low and behold is about 350 to 400 DPS. Wierd how it all works when you actually look at it and not at the people posting garbage...</blockquote>Xil wrote:<blockquote>I accused him of fixing it which is completely true. I asked for a parse of the actual DPS the Proc adds to his DPS and instead he posted what the proc adds to DPS when altered by every availible caster buff in the game on an 8 mob linked encounter. Hense the whole "It says cold damage" thing. So in fact he did "fix" the parse to show much higher results that what I was suggesting. In order to win an argument he "fixed" the parse to discredit my assesment.</blockquote>

Xil

01-19-2009, 01:04 AM

<cite>Charayne@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>The proc does a max of 408 damage and that's when it crits. That's it. Summoner debuffs already put the damage we do at the cap in herioc content without extra debuffs.I'm not missing anything. It's a static 350 to 400 DPS per target no matter what the circumstances are. Doesn't matter if you have your mythical and are in a perfectly stacked mage group with perfect overlapping debuffs and all the spell haste in the world. The spell hits for a max of 408 damage per target and can only proc (even at the fabled 100%) as many times as our pet's slow [Removed for Content]spells can cast and refreash.There's no twisting of logic here. It's straight forward absolute fact.Look at the parses. Parse if yourself. It's completely impossible to do any more than that. The garbage about 14 to 20% of our DPS was from the Mage pet Parsing BY ITSELF on a linked encounter wich multiplies all the damage done by each target present. 20% of our MAGE PET's DAMAGE low and behold is about 350 to 400 DPS. Wierd how it all works when you actually look at it and not at the people posting garbage...</blockquote> Yeah 408 was the max on the power regen not the damage my bad. But you're still doing the same thing again. The total hit was wrong but the DPS is absolutley correct. So you can take the fact that I replaced the max hit on the power regen with the max hit on the damage and use that to ignore everything else like a [Removed for Content].Or you can focus on the intent of the post rather than a simple dislexic mistake.</blockquote>

Xil

01-19-2009, 01:16 AM

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Because most people realise that the 4 people here total that spend all their time flaming me are just forum trolls that know how to avoid breaking the rules.And they also actually read through a posts and consider the context before they post things because they don't have an insane and overwhelming desire to prove other people wrong to validate their existance as somehow useful...But by all means flame away. No one is listening anyway right. heh</blockquote>Flaming you? You mean correcting you. No no correcting me would have been fine. But picking out a small piece of info and using it to discredit an entire post and any previous previous post is trolling and flaming. It's also a logical fallacy. It would be like if I described to you how to adjust the timing belt on your car to increase miles per gallon and accidentally said your car was red instead of green, and by making that mistake you take the entire conversation and nullify it as false because the car isn't red it's green so therefor I must be wrong about everything else I said as well. That would be kinda stupid of you wouldn't it. Hence the whole fallacy thing.What if someone who actually reads these forums is trying to learn something about how this game works and they read that POM procs on every dot tic. It would be wrong to not correct that. think of all the things you've learned this week. HOw procs work. how POM works. How to calculate what a proc rate is. What Frigid Gift is. How Proc's Dont Proc Procs. That dots dont proc POM on every tic. Anything taken out of context can be made to be whatever you want it to be. POM procing on dot ticks was actually from the mouth of an Illusionist. I just repeated it because I figured they had some reason to believe it did or would not have said it... Maybe it was broken and they fixed it?And last week you learned the difference between base damage and spell damage in regards to the Gold Tempered Mask. The proc adds 10% now. It only applied to +spell damage before TSO and that made it kinda useless. Now it applies to the entire pool. SO... that means "you" just learned something too right?You've been helped considerably i would say. Yet you claim to be flamed and you wrongly accuse Bigron of doctoring a parse... and when you were proven wrong, yet again, you dont admit it or appologize. I accused him of fixing it which is completely true. I asked for a parse of the actual DPS the Proc adds to his DPS and instead he posted what the proc adds to DPS when altered by every availible caster buff in the game on an 8 mob linked encounter. Hense the whole "It says cold damage" thing. So in fact he did "fix" the parse to show much higher results that what I was suggesting. In order to win an argument he "fixed" the parse to discredit my assesment.And you've told multipe people in the necro forums to Learn2Play Actually that was just Dav... and that was in direct response to previous flaming when clearly they have more knowledge of game mechanics than you. That might count as flaming and trolling no? Knowledge and application are two different things... That's why they say teachers teach because they cannot "do"...I'm not sure what context you are referring to... everyones on the same page but you. Everyone is 4 people? Well 5 now including you? That's kinda sad...</blockquote></blockquote>how can you 'fix a parse'? The only thing that would change how much dps this robe does is from raid debuffs. The cold dmg on the parse is listed because wizards turn their group members spell dmg into cold, it doesn't add anything to it. And as far as I know there are no items that a summoner can wear that increases the base dmg to the pet which is where the damage is coming from. There are several items that increase the base damage of the pet now including but not limited to the TSO set shoulders both legendary and fabled. There are also buffs that change the crit amount as well. Further skewing the results.Also advocating that the damage on this is adequate is just a farse. Actually I suggested that it wasn't even close to adequate so removing it served no purpose. It's about 350 to 400DPS for summoner that aren't in top tier content with top tier buffs, debuffs, gear, AA's, and 8 mob AE encounters, skewing the output. Our pets do about half the DPS they should anyway right? So the added 350 to 400 DPS of static damage on to them didn't hurt anything. It was the only bandaid TSO offered until a real fix could be worked out.We actually WANT the class fixed, and when the devs look at the damage logs from summoners they will see overall numbers without digging more, so WANTING this item fixed brings the problems to the forefront more readily then them digging for the information.The thing about wanting gear to fix the class is also wrong whoever posted that. We don't want gear to fix the class we want our gear to effect our pets which is a mechanic issue not a gear one. Fixing it with broken items like this just cover up the real issue which is gear scaling and pet dps.</blockquote>It's pretty easy to exagerate the effectiveness of something with raid buffs and debuffs at the absolutle highest level of progression on an 8 mob encounter... in other words Fix the parseNobody has ever once suggested this would be a FIX of any kind for the class. What was suggest is here I'll make it big and red for you:Instead making the item useless, tone the power regen down or remove it and leave the DPS "FOR THE TIME BEING", since a real fix is not coming anytime soon to the class. And the DPS added to the pet is not overpowering since the pet is only doing about half the DPS it should be anyway. And no Sabu, making the robe worthless does nothing to bring summoner problems to the forefront. The class dev already knows what the issues are and has for a long time. You already know they are aware of the problems. You already know that the fix for summoner isn't going to come for a LONG time. These are confirmed and well known facts.So arguing that the robe must be fixed in order to clearly address the problems with summoner is kinda redundant. The problems with summoner were there before the robe. Remain there with the robe. And will still be there without the robe.The only difference fixing the robe will make is now those newly 80 summoners (who actually got something from it) get to lose out on groups and take a 400 or so DPS cut from their pets again.There was no good reason to do that. Leaving the DPS the way it was hurt no one and offered no realy advantage over any other class. Taking it away for the sake of semantics is stupid.

hellfire

01-19-2009, 01:21 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Charayne@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>The proc does a max of 408 damage and that's when it crits. That's it. Summoner debuffs already put the damage we do at the cap in herioc content without extra debuffs.I'm not missing anything. It's a static 350 to 400 DPS per target no matter what the circumstances are. Doesn't matter if you have your mythical and are in a perfectly stacked mage group with perfect overlapping debuffs and all the spell haste in the world. The spell hits for a max of 408 damage per target and can only proc (even at the fabled 100%) as many times as our pet's slow [Removed for Content]spells can cast and refreash.There's no twisting of logic here. It's straight forward absolute fact.Look at the parses. Parse if yourself. It's completely impossible to do any more than that. The garbage about 14 to 20% of our DPS was from the Mage pet Parsing BY ITSELF on a linked encounter wich multiplies all the damage done by each target present. 20% of our MAGE PET's DAMAGE low and behold is about 350 to 400 DPS. Wierd how it all works when you actually look at it and not at the people posting garbage...</blockquote> Yeah 408 was the max on the power regen not the damage my bad. But you're still doing the same thing again. The total hit was wrong but the DPS is absolutley correct. So you can take the fact that I replaced the max hit on the power regen with the max hit on the damage and use that to ignore everything else like a [Removed for Content].Or you can focus on the intent of the post rather than a simple dislexic mistake.</blockquote></blockquote>False again... you havent learned yet?do you want the target dummy parse with no buffs or single target raid parse or what.........everything is already in this and the other thread but you seem either blind or stupid...im not sure which it is...Just stop with lies and misinformation tho...the joke is over .

hellfire

01-19-2009, 01:25 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enoa@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Because most people realise that the 4 people here total that spend all their time flaming me are just forum trolls that know how to avoid breaking the rules.And they also actually read through a posts and consider the context before they post things because they don't have an insane and overwhelming desire to prove other people wrong to validate their existance as somehow useful...But by all means flame away. No one is listening anyway right. heh</blockquote>Flaming you? You mean correcting you. No no correcting me would have been fine. But picking out a small piece of info and using it to discredit an entire post and any previous previous post is trolling and flaming. It's also a logical fallacy. It would be like if I described to you how to adjust the timing belt on your car to increase miles per gallon and accidentally said your car was red instead of green, and by making that mistake you take the entire conversation and nullify it as false because the car isn't red it's green so therefor I must be wrong about everything else I said as well. That would be kinda stupid of you wouldn't it. Hence the whole fallacy thing.What if someone who actually reads these forums is trying to learn something about how this game works and they read that POM procs on every dot tic. It would be wrong to not correct that. think of all the things you've learned this week. HOw procs work. how POM works. How to calculate what a proc rate is. What Frigid Gift is. How Proc's Dont Proc Procs. That dots dont proc POM on every tic. Anything taken out of context can be made to be whatever you want it to be. POM procing on dot ticks was actually from the mouth of an Illusionist. I just repeated it because I figured they had some reason to believe it did or would not have said it... Maybe it was broken and they fixed it?And last week you learned the difference between base damage and spell damage in regards to the Gold Tempered Mask. The proc adds 10% now. It only applied to +spell damage before TSO and that made it kinda useless. Now it applies to the entire pool. SO... that means "you" just learned something too right?You've been helped considerably i would say. Yet you claim to be flamed and you wrongly accuse Bigron of doctoring a parse... and when you were proven wrong, yet again, you dont admit it or appologize. I accused him of fixing it which is completely true. I asked for a parse of the actual DPS the Proc adds to his DPS and instead he posted what the proc adds to DPS when altered by every availible caster buff in the game on an 8 mob linked encounter. Hense the whole "It says cold damage" thing. So in fact he did "fix" the parse to show much higher results that what I was suggesting. In order to win an argument he "fixed" the parse to discredit my assesment.And you've told multipe people in the necro forums to Learn2Play Actually that was just Dav... and that was in direct response to previous flaming when clearly they have more knowledge of game mechanics than you. That might count as flaming and trolling no? Knowledge and application are two different things... That's why they say teachers teach because they cannot "do"...I'm not sure what context you are referring to... everyones on the same page but you. Everyone is 4 people? Well 5 now including you? That's kinda sad...</blockquote></blockquote>how can you 'fix a parse'? The only thing that would change how much dps this robe does is from raid debuffs. The cold dmg on the parse is listed because wizards turn their group members spell dmg into cold, it doesn't add anything to it. And as far as I know there are no items that a summoner can wear that increases the base dmg to the pet which is where the damage is coming from. There are several items that increase the base damage of the pet now including but not limited to the TSO set shoulders both legendary and fabled. There are also buffs that change the crit amount as well. Further skewing the results.Also advocating that the damage on this is adequate is just a farse. We actually WANT the class fixed, and when the devs look at the damage logs from summoners they will see overall numbers without digging more, so WANTING this item fixed brings the problems to the forefront more readily then them digging for the information.The thing about wanting gear to fix the class is also wrong whoever posted that. We don't want gear to fix the class we want our gear to effect our pets which is a mechanic issue not a gear one. Fixing it with broken items like this just cover up the real issue which is gear scaling and pet dps.</blockquote>It's pretty easy to exagerate the effectiveness of something with raid buffs and debuffs at the absolutle highest level of progression on an 8 mob encounter... in other words Fix the parseNobody has ever once suggested this would be a FIX of any kind for the class. What was suggest is here I'll make it big and red for you:Instead making the item useless, tone the power regen down or remove it and leave the DPS "FOR THE TIME BEING", since a real fix is not coming anytime soon to the class. And the DPS added to the pet is not overpowering since the pet is only doing about half the DPS it should be anyway. And no Sabu, making the robe worthless does nothing to bring summoner problems to the forefront. The class dev already knows what the issues are and has for a long time. You already know they are aware of the problems. You already know that the fix for summoner isn't going to come for a LONG time. These are confirmed and well known facts.So arguing that the robe must be fixed in order to clearly address the problems with summoner is kinda redundant. The problems with summoner were there before the robe. Remain there with the robe. And will still be there without the robe.The only difference fixing the robe will make is now those newly 80 summoners (who actually got something from it) get to lose out on groups and take a 400 or so DPS cut from their pets again.There was no good reason to do that. Leaving the DPS the way it was hurt no one and offered no realy advantage over any other class. Taking it away for the sake of semantics is stupid.</blockquote>Stop with this crutch of a broken item....learn your class and game mechanics or the game period and you might be able to perform with out this broken item

Sabutai

01-19-2009, 01:26 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>And you are still advocating the use of a broken mechanic as a good thing... And better yet that hiding that mechanic from the devs is also a good thing.They call that exploitation. But I have a feeling you'll be supprised on this one.</blockquote>So you didn't say this? So now that you've seen it has been broken and want to keep it, its ok? But before you thought it was broken people who didn't want it front and center were the exploiters?Gotcha!

Sabutai

01-19-2009, 01:35 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's pretty easy to exagerate the effectiveness of something with raid buffs and debuffs at the absolutle highest level of progression on an 8 mob encounter... in other words Fix the parseNobody has ever once suggested this would be a FIX of any kind for the class. What was suggest is here I'll make it big and red for you:Instead making the item useless, tone the power regen down or remove it and leave the DPS "FOR THE TIME BEING", since a real fix is not coming anytime soon to the class. And the DPS added to the pet is not overpowering since the pet is only doing about half the DPS it should be anyway. And no Sabu, making the robe worthless does nothing to bring summoner problems to the forefront. The class dev already knows what the issues are and has for a long time. You already know they are aware of the problems. You already know that the fix for summoner isn't going to come for a LONG time. These are confirmed and well known facts.So arguing that the robe must be fixed in order to clearly address the problems with summoner is kinda redundant. The problems with summoner were there before the robe. Remain there with the robe. And will still be there without the robe.The only difference fixing the robe will make is now those newly 80 summoners (who actually got something from it) get to lose out on groups and take a 400 or so DPS cut from their pets again.There was no good reason to do that. Leaving the DPS the way it was hurt no one and offered no realy advantage over any other class. Taking it away for the sake of semantics is stupid.</blockquote>Clearly you don't understand how fixes are made. They introduced all of this new pet gear, aa's etc. They will gather information based how well the class does with newer gear abilities etc. So using a clearly broken however nice it is right now will not help get the class fixed.

Xil

01-19-2009, 01:39 AM

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>And you are still advocating the use of a broken mechanic as a good thing... And better yet that hiding that mechanic from the devs is also a good thing.They call that exploitation. But I have a feeling you'll be supprised on this one.</blockquote>So you didn't say this? So now that you've seen it has been broken and want to keep it, its ok? But before you thought it was broken people who didn't want it front and center were the exploiters?Gotcha!</blockquote>Yeah you can take everything out of context and make it say whatever you want though.That was in reference to you claiming that I had somehow leaked your secrect about the robe out.Yer still stuck on semantics and I can see clearly now you have no intention to have a logical discusion about anything.Like I've said a hundred times before and for the last time now. The suggestion was that fixing at item based on the tooltip instead of seeing the application of that item as the flawed or not-flawed mechanic is short sighted, and all around stupid.

Xil

01-19-2009, 01:42 AM

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's pretty easy to exagerate the effectiveness of something with raid buffs and debuffs at the absolutle highest level of progression on an 8 mob encounter... in other words Fix the parseNobody has ever once suggested this would be a FIX of any kind for the class. What was suggest is here I'll make it big and red for you:Instead making the item useless, tone the power regen down or remove it and leave the DPS "FOR THE TIME BEING", since a real fix is not coming anytime soon to the class. And the DPS added to the pet is not overpowering since the pet is only doing about half the DPS it should be anyway. And no Sabu, making the robe worthless does nothing to bring summoner problems to the forefront. The class dev already knows what the issues are and has for a long time. You already know they are aware of the problems. You already know that the fix for summoner isn't going to come for a LONG time. These are confirmed and well known facts.So arguing that the robe must be fixed in order to clearly address the problems with summoner is kinda redundant. The problems with summoner were there before the robe. Remain there with the robe. And will still be there without the robe.The only difference fixing the robe will make is now those newly 80 summoners (who actually got something from it) get to lose out on groups and take a 400 or so DPS cut from their pets again.There was no good reason to do that. Leaving the DPS the way it was hurt no one and offered no realy advantage over any other class. Taking it away for the sake of semantics is stupid.</blockquote>Clearly you don't understand how fixes are made. They introduced all of this new pet gear, aa's etc. They will gather information based how well the class does with newer gear abilities etc. So using a clearly broken however nice it is right now will not help get the class fixed.</blockquote>And they don't use some magical database of summoner performance. They use QA people and feedback to test these things. A known issue like the robe would be no obsticle of any kind. They break down everything and see where all the issues are and then test them in stages.Do you think they are so stupid that they wouldn't understand that the robe would skew the data a little? Or even stupid enough to not break down the summoner in different stages of progression and test them both in equipment and out of equipment?

hellfire

01-19-2009, 01:45 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's pretty easy to exagerate the effectiveness of something with raid buffs and debuffs at the absolutle highest level of progression on an 8 mob encounter... in other words Fix the parseNobody has ever once suggested this would be a FIX of any kind for the class. What was suggest is here I'll make it big and red for you:Instead making the item useless, tone the power regen down or remove it and leave the DPS "FOR THE TIME BEING", since a real fix is not coming anytime soon to the class. And the DPS added to the pet is not overpowering since the pet is only doing about half the DPS it should be anyway. And no Sabu, making the robe worthless does nothing to bring summoner problems to the forefront. The class dev already knows what the issues are and has for a long time. You already know they are aware of the problems. You already know that the fix for summoner isn't going to come for a LONG time. These are confirmed and well known facts.So arguing that the robe must be fixed in order to clearly address the problems with summoner is kinda redundant. The problems with summoner were there before the robe. Remain there with the robe. And will still be there without the robe.The only difference fixing the robe will make is now those newly 80 summoners (who actually got something from it) get to lose out on groups and take a 400 or so DPS cut from their pets again.There was no good reason to do that. Leaving the DPS the way it was hurt no one and offered no realy advantage over any other class. Taking it away for the sake of semantics is stupid.</blockquote>Clearly you don't understand how fixes are made. They introduced all of this new pet gear, aa's etc. They will gather information based how well the class does with newer gear abilities etc. So using a clearly broken however nice it is right now will not help get the class fixed.</blockquote>And they don't use some magical database of summoner performance. They use QA people and feedback to test these things. A known issue like the robe would be no obstical of any kind. Do you think they are so stupid that they wouldn't understand that the robe would skew the data a little?</blockquote>Since you have clearly only been in this game for a few months and have no idea how the QA works.....then yes they would be to stupid to understand.

Sabutai

01-19-2009, 01:46 AM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's pretty easy to exagerate the effectiveness of something with raid buffs and debuffs at the absolutle highest level of progression on an 8 mob encounter... in other words Fix the parseNobody has ever once suggested this would be a FIX of any kind for the class. What was suggest is here I'll make it big and red for you:Instead making the item useless, tone the power regen down or remove it and leave the DPS "FOR THE TIME BEING", since a real fix is not coming anytime soon to the class. And the DPS added to the pet is not overpowering since the pet is only doing about half the DPS it should be anyway. And no Sabu, making the robe worthless does nothing to bring summoner problems to the forefront. The class dev already knows what the issues are and has for a long time. You already know they are aware of the problems. You already know that the fix for summoner isn't going to come for a LONG time. These are confirmed and well known facts.So arguing that the robe must be fixed in order to clearly address the problems with summoner is kinda redundant. The problems with summoner were there before the robe. Remain there with the robe. And will still be there without the robe.The only difference fixing the robe will make is now those newly 80 summoners (who actually got something from it) get to lose out on groups and take a 400 or so DPS cut from their pets again.There was no good reason to do that. Leaving the DPS the way it was hurt no one and offered no realy advantage over any other class. Taking it away for the sake of semantics is stupid.</blockquote>Clearly you don't understand how fixes are made. They introduced all of this new pet gear, aa's etc. They will gather information based how well the class does with newer gear abilities etc. So using a clearly broken however nice it is right now will not help get the class fixed.</blockquote>And they don't use some magical database of summoner performance. They use QA people and feedback to test these things. A known issue like the robe would be no obsticle of any kind. They break down everything and see where all the issues are and then test them in stages.Do you think they are so stupid that they wouldn't understand that the robe would skew the data a little? Or even stupid enough to not break down the summoner in different stages of progression and test them both in equipment and out of equipment? </blockquote>um, then ask aeralik. They do actually use numbers generated from their log files...Thanks for playing tho.

Onkello

01-19-2009, 01:52 AM

Xil, Please click here. This is for you. Much love.<a href="http://s338.photobucket.com/albums/n431/stinkoyelinko/parses/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://s338.photobucket.com/albums/...yelinko/parses/</a>

hellfire

01-19-2009, 02:01 AM

Necrodeath79

01-19-2009, 09:31 AM

There is 1 more very good reason why this item needs to be "Fixed" so it does what was intended, Why would the Very Best robe in the game for a summoner be from a vender ?There is not a single robe not even the new avatar robe that would be as good as this item is now, so tell me why something anyone can get for almost nothing should be better than the new robe from avatars ?Let me guess because we havent been fixed yet.So on top of the class issues. Ruin progression for another slot. We already have the neck, and we can add the BP to that list also.Pest

Xil

01-19-2009, 04:14 PM

<cite>Onkello wrote:</cite><blockquote>Xil, Please click here. This is for you. Much love.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://s338.photobucket.com/albums/n431/stinkoyelinko/parses/" target="_blank">http://s338.photobucket.com/albums/...yelinko/parses/</a></blockquote>That's pretty impressive. 88% crits total and the lowest hit on the lower parse is almost double the listed proc amount. That's some serious gear and some serious buffing.And you got your pet to proc potent 26 times in 32 seconds on a single target that's pretty insane spell haste and recovery and recast....(pretty sure you can't put enough spell haste on pet even with Time Compression to make that happen) Unless of course it was in fact a linked encounter and potent was hitting more than one target...But thank you for the post.

Xalmat

01-19-2009, 04:49 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>And you got your pet to proc potent 26 times in 32 seconds on a single target that's pretty insane spell haste and recovery and recast....(pretty sure you can't put enough spell haste on pet even with Time Compression to make that happen) Unless of course it was in fact a linked encounter and potent was hitting more than one target...</blockquote>26 times in 32 seconds means he used Plane Shift, which does give the pet that much spell haste. But even so, that was still a single mob, not multiple mobs.

Xil

01-19-2009, 06:07 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>And you got your pet to proc potent 26 times in 32 seconds on a single target that's pretty insane spell haste and recovery and recast....(pretty sure you can't put enough spell haste on pet even with Time Compression to make that happen) Unless of course it was in fact a linked encounter and potent was hitting more than one target...</blockquote>26 times in 32 seconds means he used Plane Shift, which does give the pet that much spell haste. But even so, that was still a single mob, not multiple mobs.</blockquote>Ahh yes plane shift. That makes more sense. =) thanksBut it's still at the highest level of progression with the absolute best mods availible in gear, buffs, debuffs, and AA's and while using plane shift. And still not overpowering to the summoner at 1600 DPS added to the pet. The pet should still be doing more Damage than even that at that level of progression.So while you guys are absolutley right, in your own sense, yer still dismissing the end result. Which is even the maximum amount of DPS possible from the robe at the highest level of progression is less DPS than our pets "should" be doing.So it all boils right back down to semantics. It's broken as far as the tool tip is conserned. But the effect it has on summoner DPS is not overpowering. The regen is pretty rediculous. But also since summoner can't really DPS without the other power regen classes in the group, even the absolutley r3tarded power regen is just overkill, and doesn't overpower the summoner either.The big picture needs to be more important than semantics. But we seem to be glossing over the end result in favor of winning an argument. And remember what they say about arguing on the internet? Doesn't matter who wins yer still ____________?The effect this robe has on our DPS between now and when Summoner get fixed is not overpowering so fixing it now is pointless. It does nothing but hurt summoner who spent shards on it. Unless there's some valid reason to fix the robe other than for semantics sake that I am overlooking? I certainly don't see one.

hellfire

01-19-2009, 06:26 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>The big picture needs to be more important than semantics. But we seem to be glossing over the end result in favor of winning an argument. And remember what they say about arguing on the internet? Doesn't matter who wins yer still ____________?The effect this robe has on our DPS between now and when Summoner get fixed is not overpowering so fixing it now is pointless. It does nothing but hurt summoner who spent shards on it. Unless there's some valid reason to fix the robe other than for semantics sake that I am overlooking? I certainly don't see one.</blockquote>You seem to be concerned with argument and only you.Preety much everyone else agrees that this item is broken and grossly overpowered...so much it can replace other classes main utility.Sorry but the robe is broken and has been shown its extremly overpowered and as with any thing in the game period includeing yyour spells the item becomes even more over powered with buffs...just as it should because that is the design mechanic on buffs ...to improv you the player and also the players items.On training dummy the robe accounted for close to 550 dps accouting for 1/3 of the pets dps.That alone is over powered...now add in the effects it can have on your group again ae encounters and in a typical raid setting .....the robe is sickeningly over powered.You have a complex and thing this whole thing is about winning a argument against you.....why i have no [Removed for Content] clue....but you have this vision in your little head that this is the case.But you preety much fail on a epic level and your to blind by your own vision to see that this item should have been fixed months ago......Beacause all the data with this broken item pretty much put us on back burner because in every parse it will show summoners are doing preety good.So just let go of the crutch which is this incredibly broken item,...learn your class...learn the game and everything will be ok.I should have had this fixed months ago imo.

Xil

01-19-2009, 07:26 PM

<cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>The big picture needs to be more important than semantics. But we seem to be glossing over the end result in favor of winning an argument. And remember what they say about arguing on the internet? Doesn't matter who wins yer still ____________?The effect this robe has on our DPS between now and when Summoner get fixed is not overpowering so fixing it now is pointless. It does nothing but hurt summoner who spent shards on it. Unless there's some valid reason to fix the robe other than for semantics sake that I am overlooking? I certainly don't see one.</blockquote>You seem to be concerned with argument and only you. If that were true you wouldn't have posted this...</blockquote>You know you make this easy when all you do is flame...

hellfire

01-19-2009, 07:54 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>The big picture needs to be more important than semantics. But we seem to be glossing over the end result in favor of winning an argument. And remember what they say about arguing on the internet? Doesn't matter who wins yer still ____________?The effect this robe has on our DPS between now and when Summoner get fixed is not overpowering so fixing it now is pointless. It does nothing but hurt summoner who spent shards on it. Unless there's some valid reason to fix the robe other than for semantics sake that I am overlooking? I certainly don't see one.</blockquote>You seem to be concerned with argument and only you. If that were true you wouldn't have posted this...Posted what? ...correcting the bad info you are still trying to pass off to the community.....as i said just stop.</blockquote>You know you make this easy when all you do is flame...Preety sure i aint flameing you....just enlightening you imo</blockquote>You call posting correct information that is correcting wrong infomation that is along the subject line of the thread flameing?....well if it is then stop posting info that is completly false.

Xil

01-19-2009, 08:42 PM

<cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>The big picture needs to be more important than semantics. But we seem to be glossing over the end result in favor of winning an argument. And remember what they say about arguing on the internet? Doesn't matter who wins yer still ____________?The effect this robe has on our DPS between now and when Summoner get fixed is not overpowering so fixing it now is pointless. It does nothing but hurt summoner who spent shards on it. Unless there's some valid reason to fix the robe other than for semantics sake that I am overlooking? I certainly don't see one.</blockquote>You seem to be concerned with argument and only you. If that were true you wouldn't have posted this...Posted what? ...correcting the bad info you are still trying to pass off to the community.....as i said just stop.You also wouldn't have posted this. But you obviously can't help it...</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>

hellfire

01-19-2009, 08:43 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote>The big picture needs to be more important than semantics. But we seem to be glossing over the end result in favor of winning an argument. And remember what they say about arguing on the internet? Doesn't matter who wins yer still ____________?The effect this robe has on our DPS between now and when Summoner get fixed is not overpowering so fixing it now is pointless. It does nothing but hurt summoner who spent shards on it. Unless there's some valid reason to fix the robe other than for semantics sake that I am overlooking? I certainly don't see one.</blockquote>You seem to be concerned with argument and only you. If that were true you wouldn't have posted this...Posted what? ...correcting the bad info you are still trying to pass off to the community.....as i said just stop.You also wouldn't have posted this. But you obviously can't help it...</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>But it seems more so you cant...and that is very sad.

tbone7777

01-20-2009, 01:49 PM

The robe was fixed today.

Germs666

01-20-2009, 08:40 PM

<cite>tbone7777 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The robe was fixed today.</blockquote>Lol of course, right before I got mine haha! Thanks guys! Now back to sitting on LFG collecting dust.

Traldan Omegafyre

01-20-2009, 11:38 PM

Effing cool. Back to being worthless. Thanks SOE!

Jasuo

01-21-2009, 12:54 AM

People should stop looking for crutches to make the parse and start trying to build up their toon other ways. Clearly the robe needed to be fixed. Leaving op items like that as is only postpones class fixes because the server parses they see are inflated and show us doing well. Get over the robe and start pushing for summoner class fixes.

Minraja

01-21-2009, 06:53 AM

<cite>Sciomar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>People should stop looking for crutches to make the parse and start trying to build up their toon other ways. Clearly the robe needed to be fixed. Leaving op items like that as is only postpones class fixes because the server parses they see are inflated and show us doing well. Get over the robe and start pushing for summoner class fixes.</blockquote>This is exactly the reason why I didn't waste my time getting that robe. If I am parsing good, then I want it to be because I'm doing something right and not because I'm exploiting a broken robe. At least this way I don't have to deal with someone accusing me of padding my parse with an exploit.

Xil

01-21-2009, 09:00 AM

<cite>Drazala@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sciomar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>People should stop looking for crutches to make the parse and start trying to build up their toon other ways. Clearly the robe needed to be fixed. Leaving op items like that as is only postpones class fixes because the server parses they see are inflated and show us doing well. Get over the robe and start pushing for summoner class fixes.</blockquote>This is exactly the reason why I didn't waste my time getting that robe. If I am parsing good, then I want it to be because I'm doing something right and not because I'm exploiting a broken robe. At least this way I don't have to deal with someone accusing me of padding my parse with an exploit.</blockquote>The robe never did more than 350 to 500 DPS on single targets. The only time it had a noticable effect on the parse was on large linked encounters and even then on an 8 mob encounter at the absolute highest level of progression with every availible augment in the game and plane shift it didn't add more than 7% to 12% to the total parse.It was pointless to fix because there is no summoner fix planned or even on the horizon to be planned. And until I see some proof that the devs use a server wide parser of some kind to judge any one classes performance I'd take that kind of info with a grain of salt.The effectiveness of the robe was blown way out of perportion so that some forum trolls could win an argument. That's all.And now the robe is down to about 35DPS total. Which is a rediculous waste of shards now. Good stuff.

Germs666

01-21-2009, 11:38 AM

Well the robe in it's former state gave us some utility to a grp situation. I think that's what people enjoyed. They should have kept the damage mod and reduced the pwr flow if it was that rediculously OP. Our damage is still garbage when other lvl 80's can hit for over 50k. But assasssins aren't OP at all..

Jasuo

01-21-2009, 07:31 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Drazala@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sciomar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>People should stop looking for crutches to make the parse and start trying to build up their toon other ways. Clearly the robe needed to be fixed. Leaving op items like that as is only postpones class fixes because the server parses they see are inflated and show us doing well. Get over the robe and start pushing for summoner class fixes.</blockquote>This is exactly the reason why I didn't waste my time getting that robe. If I am parsing good, then I want it to be because I'm doing something right and not because I'm exploiting a broken robe. At least this way I don't have to deal with someone accusing me of padding my parse with an exploit.</blockquote>It was pointless to fix because there is no summoner fix planned or even on the horizon to be planned. And until I see some proof that the devs use a server wide parser of some kind to judge any one classes performance I'd take that kind of info with a grain of salt.</blockquote>Never post without proof is my motto.<img src="http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f74/xigthias/lockeye.jpg" />And since he's no longer an employee it's safe to post ^^

Sabutai

01-21-2009, 07:34 PM

<cite>Sciomar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Drazala@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sciomar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>People should stop looking for crutches to make the parse and start trying to build up their toon other ways. Clearly the robe needed to be fixed. Leaving op items like that as is only postpones class fixes because the server parses they see are inflated and show us doing well. Get over the robe and start pushing for summoner class fixes.</blockquote>This is exactly the reason why I didn't waste my time getting that robe. If I am parsing good, then I want it to be because I'm doing something right and not because I'm exploiting a broken robe. At least this way I don't have to deal with someone accusing me of padding my parse with an exploit.</blockquote>It was pointless to fix because there is no summoner fix planned or even on the horizon to be planned. And until I see some proof that the devs use a server wide parser of some kind to judge any one classes performance I'd take that kind of info with a grain of salt.</blockquote>Never post without proof is my motto.<img src="http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f74/xigthias/lockeye.jpg" />And since he's no longer an employee it's safe to post ^^</blockquote>Thank you scio, I suck at searching.

de lori

01-21-2009, 08:44 PM

wow...wrong again Xil.

Xil

01-22-2009, 12:57 PM

Sabutai

01-22-2009, 01:57 PM

well since that was posted in 2006 I can safely say yes they used them after beta. And since I can't find it aeralik had mentioned the same thing when they introduced GU 43 and 44. So yea they still use em to gather information on how classes do in certain situations.

hellfire

01-22-2009, 03:26 PM

<cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sciomar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Drazala@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sciomar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>People should stop looking for crutches to make the parse and start trying to build up their toon other ways. Clearly the robe needed to be fixed. Leaving op items like that as is only postpones class fixes because the server parses they see are inflated and show us doing well. Get over the robe and start pushing for summoner class fixes.</blockquote>This is exactly the reason why I didn't waste my time getting that robe. If I am parsing good, then I want it to be because I'm doing something right and not because I'm exploiting a broken robe. At least this way I don't have to deal with someone accusing me of padding my parse with an exploit.</blockquote>It was pointless to fix because there is no summoner fix planned or even on the horizon to be planned. And until I see some proof that the devs use a server wide parser of some kind to judge any one classes performance I'd take that kind of info with a grain of salt.</blockquote>Never post without proof is my motto.<img src="http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f74/xigthias/lockeye.jpg" />And since he's no longer an employee it's safe to post ^^</blockquote>Do you know if they still use a server side parser like this? That's a pretty old post.MMO's in beta and early development/release use a lot of logging scripts early on that have to be disabled to improve performance.Got anything mentioned about this after nov 2004?</blockquote>Believe in one of the panal discussions at Fan faire in aug 08 it was discussed/stated this is still the primary way they collect all data....on preety much everything...through logs......and they use this data as a base for balanceing.

Carthington

01-22-2009, 03:44 PM

is this xil dood the idiot who stood up at fan faire and said necros suck?

Davngr1

01-24-2009, 07:18 AM

Xil with every post you show how little about this game you know. you post a few valid points but totaly discredit anything usefull with your over top "im the best necro" "i know all" attitude man. the robe is doing about 2% off my parse right now.. still a powerfull item. yes it was fun top parsing every pull like tier 7 but anyone who understand class balance knows 12-18% coming from one item is unbalanced expecialy since it's a legendary robe. personaly i would not mind seeing a proc like potent added to summoner myth since it enhances dumbfires(something that is not done currently), maybe even make consumption/vestament affect ALL pets again. the full time 100% proc from this robe that is equal to consumption/vestament was not grossly over powerd(like consumption was in KoS beta with UT).

Suppler

01-27-2009, 02:43 PM

When I take a look at a long history of thoughtful non-directly insulting posting, filled with screenshots and stats, I think to myself, here is someone of composure. And yet, when those posts are geared towards making that person seem more enlightened in life, more skilled in-game and more accepting of divine change (divine in this case being the devs) than the majority of befuddled posters in that venue, I have to wonder if they dont have an underlying reason for continually fighting their peers, many of which are just as composed as himself.Xil, you're a troll because you attempt to end threads via inserting your superior opinion as divine assurance. You never cease to miss an opportunity to do so.Xil, you're a detriment to the necromancer class because you intentionally sabotage class enhancing opportunity for your peers. You accept nerfs willingly, perhaps even happily. I wonder if each new nerf is seen by you as an opportunity to further engratiate yourself onto SOE, and elevate yourself above your "less enlightened" brethren.I'm not interested in making you stop because something clearly drives you. I'm interested in finding out what that might be. If you are such a happy person, you could just ignore the boards and carry on, and yet you are here. There's such an overwhelming majority that would prefer that you just didnt post at all, making it clear that your opinion is not wanted, and yet you are here. So I conclude you are in need of validation. In this venue, that can only comes from peers and SOE. I think you need validation from both. To say that you are a fanboi is an understatement, so we'll dispense with that bit of obviousness. What I think you really want is to be agreed with by a respected peer, every now and then. That would be quite the elation for you I imagine. Perhaps even one day, being accepted, that your opinion will one day be ours.But that's never going to happen. NEVER. Never Never Never. Not that any amount of "nevers" will illuminate the proverbial light. Until you don an attitude that promotes class advancement, not nerfing acceptance, and peer comraderie, not pointless debate, you will not be accepted. So, what do you think you should do now?