Suggestion to improve Guardian solo capability

[Allurana]

<p>Guardians are incredibly painful to solo with.</p><p>A suggestion for improvement would be to make it so all the guardian taunts/hate increasers to damage = to their hate numbers when solo ONLY.  If the guardian is grouped with even just one other character then they go back to straight hate only things.</p><p>For Example, Level 72 spell Impede at Adept 3 does 1332 to 1621 threat increase to a single target and interrupts the target - if solo, it would instead do 1,332 - 1,621 damage.</p><p>We would be VERY good at soloing and still not break anything else in the game.</p>

[Mentalep]

<p>Would this change be for all fighters, or just guardians?  Also, how many of our taunts would it affect?  Depending on how this was done, we could see things like Hold the Aggression becoming a pretty powerful dps tool (a good bit better than Aggressive Defense is now), all fighters having two additional 5k+ attacks (Rescue and Sneering Assault) on moderate timers (2.5m with AA and 3m, respectively), and so on.  I think it could get way out of hand.  Maybe if it were limited to Impede and Infraction, it would help us out without being unbalanced.</p><p>Personally, though, I've never found my guardian (level 80) to be "incredibly painful" to solo.  Granted she is my first and only character above level 50 and I don't play alts much, so I don't have a lot to compare it to, but I've never had any major complaints.  So I can't solo red heroics or whatever some classes do - I don't care about that.  I've been able to do every solo quest I've attempted without any real problems, and I certainly die a LOT less than my wizard (level 46).  Now, when I was levelling up a templar to betray to inquisitor - THAT was incredibly painful.  I betrayed at level 12, but half the time I would run out of power before the mob died.</p>

[Zorastiz]

<p>Guardians are not hard to solo IMHO, out of 80 levels I would say 75% of my guardians play time was solo and I found it progressed at a nice even pace throughout, but thats just my opinion.</p>

[Terron]

<p>It was very hard to solo with a guardian 3 years ago when I had trouble killing blue solo mobs. By comparison it is fantastically good now, though most of my alts are much better,</p><p>For roleplaying reasons I do not think all our taunts should do damage. That is too mage like.</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p>I never found soloing as Guardian difficult at all...a little slow? yes.  Of all my friends and guildmates I would wager I probably died the least while soloing.</p><p>And given the crazy increases in leveling they have introduced into the game...leveling up any class is not difficult even if soloing the majority of the time.</p><p>We need some fixes...our soloing speed would not be at the top of my list of things we need fixes too.</p>

[thial]

<p>IMO.....the guardian is one of the most group dependent classes we don't have in combat heals we have low DPS really small power pools but our survivability is supposed to be the highest amongst all classes. I see soloing as a guardian a slow process but even with that when we do eventually kill the mob we walk away without a scratch and oop if ur spamming ca’s...So long as our survivability is good enough that we can out last the longer fights things are fine dps should be at the bottom of concerns for guardians, zerks on the other hand are meant to have a higher dps output....now if we can't solo one-two yellow con mob in JW something is wrong...on contrary to what others do I solo/group in def stance 95% of the time, I will switch to DW but I stay in def. With a good CA order, understanding of our debuffs, a good AA setup, even use the heroic ops (the one that fighters can do solo adds about 300 damage at the end not much but noticeable) and really just a good understanding of the class soloing is not hard, slower than most classes but not hard by any means.....I say all this from experience I leveled from 70-80 in RoK doing all that dam solo content never needed any kind of help sure others in my guild got a lvl ahead of me just cause they could kill the stuff faster. Same with tso finished all the solo content with no major issues. Only thing that really sucked while soloing in tso was trying to run from the dam spiders but I think that was the same for every class haha…</p>

[RafaelSmith]

<p><cite>Jdark@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>IMO.....the guardian is one of the most group dependent classes we don't have in combat heals we have low DPS really small power pools but our survivability is supposed to be the highest amongst all classes. I see soloing as a guardian a slow process but even with that when we do eventually kill the mob we walk away without a scratch and oop if ur spamming ca’s...So long as our survivability is good enough that we can out last the longer fights things are fine dps should be at the bottom of concerns for guardians, zerks on the other hand are meant to have a higher dps output....now if we can't solo one-two yellow con mob in JW something is wrong...on contrary to what others do I solo/group in def stance 95% of the time, I will switch to DW but I stay in def. With a good CA order, understanding of our debuffs, a good AA setup, even use the heroic ops (the one that fighters can do solo adds about 300 damage at the end not much but noticeable) and really just a good understanding of the class soloing is not hard, slower than most classes but not hard by any means.....I say all this from experience I leveled from 70-80 in RoK doing all that dam solo content never needed any kind of help sure others in my guild got a lvl ahead of me just cause they could kill the stuff faster. Same with tso finished all the solo content with no major issues. Only thing that really sucked while soloing in tso was trying to run from the dam spiders but I think that was the same for every class haha…</p></blockquote><p>WHile I agree that Guards really are fine in terms of soloing....I disagree about having the highest surviveabilty...especially with regards to soloing.  Short of using clicky items...we have no get out of jail ability.</p><p>Our "higher surviveability" really means its slightly easier for others to keep us alive...thats all.  Without others our surviveability IMO is amongst the worst of the fighters.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p>Any class can kill solo mobs with ease, but when it comes to solo heroic mobs, guardians suck.</p><p>Also, when plowing through solo trash I was always waiting on mana a lot more than other classes I've played even with level appropriate drink and totems. HP was rarely a problem.</p>

[Terron]

<p><cite>Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Our "higher surviveability" really means its slightly easier for others to keep us alive...thats all.  Without others our surviveability IMO is amongst the worst of the fighters.</p></blockquote><p>That is true. I also have an SK and his lifetaps, FD and evac give him vastly more solo survivability.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>if the gear you're wearing in your profile is what you solo with then it is pretty easy to see why it would be slow.</p>

[Vlahkmaak]

<p>Guardians solo just fine, albiet slower than the other tanks (tradeoff for our end game capabilities).   Look at your AA set up and your hit order - get the mob debuffed fast: Obliterate, tresspass, etc then get your shield bash in, a big hit (Marr) then your single target daze, then rest of big hits, do an HO somewhere in the mix, and any ^mob should be dead or there abouts.  Heroic mobs you are not going to handle anywhere near as well as a brawler, crusader, or zerk unless you are geared out.  The guardian is IMO the single most gear dependent class of any class I have ever played.  My necro could prob solo TSO content in islanad gear with a app1 pet much easier than a poorly geared guardian can.  Gear up, AA up, and know your hit order and you will do just fine.  If your end game plans are not as a MT i would seriously consider re-rolling a zerk/brawler/crusader for solo and heroic content - you will be much happier IMO.  Just a thought though.</p>

[Terron]

<p><cite>Vlahkmaak@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Guardians solo just fine, albiet slower than the other tanks (tradeoff for our end game capabilities). </p></blockquote><p>It looks like our end game advantages will be reduced/gone after the next update, but we will get a significant DPS boost in offensive stance (which will be practically unusable for tanking). It will be interesting to see how it balances out.</p>

[Vlahkmaak]

<p>I would have to disagree with you on this.  We still have Tower of Stone and the block AA which provides us with better survivability on pulls and ohh crap moments than any other tank.  We get, IMO, better defensive capabilites at reduced DPS out put than other tanks.  Yes, yes, I can out parse a brawler in MT set up dual wielding and what not on trash mobs but a brawler/zerk in the same set up is going to easily out parse a guardian since the last change we under went.  I look forward to the new changes but long term I expect the guardian to continue to be the tank of choice for single target hard hirtting bad guys - especially for elarning new content.  After the content is learned and tanks are geared I would be willing to bet I could tank VP on a bruiser in a MT set up.   </p>

[darkjb69]

<p>guards solo just fine - and in my experience better than most classes.  My guildies often remark on what I am able to do with my guard solo - especially those with Guards or Zerkers as well.</p><p>I don't have a ton of great gear - a mix of MC and legendary - no fabled (cause I solo all the time essentially).</p><p>There is an optimal AA setup for soloing with your Guard. At 80 I've been able to take out 70-74 ^^^ heroics and nameds on my own.</p><p>I generally use the Wis/Int and str lines.  Wis and int to end and str only to third ability. 70/70 in that section.  The shield bash mit debuff and my master.adept 3 big hits are an incredible combo.  With the defensive stance and hold the line penalties removed as well I can stay very defensive and still wail on mobs.  This section also throws in a nice mitigation against physical damage passive buff.</p><p>In the guardian section I have only spent 29 points on the damage updates for all my main CAs.  Don't waste on anything else if you solo - no need.</p><p>in TSO - I've gone hp and power to get in and then all attack and combat oriented as the AAs come (i'm at 134).  Again don't waste points here for anything like rescue etc.  There is also a mitigation buff here that reduces damage take by you by 50 points per level upto 250.  Helps and you will notice it.</p><p>without a healer - guardian sphere, hold the line and tower of stone make a huge diference in lasting while you wait for timers on CAs.  There's almost no solo mob I can't kill in seconds with only half my CA's - leaving me the other half for the next mob - meaning I don't have to sit around and wait at all - I can chain through solo zones VERY fast.</p><p>I use the mirror to swap out AAs for tanking versus solo and when I've forgotten to do it the difference is painful.  As a tanked out guard the class blows solo - my way though is the most fun to play solo of all my alts (and I have one of every class on multiple accounts)</p>

[pickleman]

<p>It comes down to gear and AA setup really. Soloing is a breeze in JW for my guard:</p><p>Gear:</p><p>Whirling Helm, Sand-Etched Platemail, Champion's Mirror Gauntlets, Champion's Mirror Sabatons or Battleready Sabatons, Honorbound Vambraces, Impaler's Plate Leggings, Ganak's Torque, 3 piece RE2 set jewelry, Thuuga fighter ring, Incarnadine Earring, MC CA bonus charm, Calcified Dragon Scale</p><p>AAs:</p><p>KoS: STR 4 4 8; STA 4 7 8 6 1; INT 4 4 8 8 1EoF: all CA upgrades maxxed, 9% DA, all debuff abilities maxxedTSO: 5 Riposte Mastery, 5 Swinging Strike, 5 offensive stance bonus, Sneering Assault, 5 Staggering Blow</p><p>If you're not getting those AA's or rolling on offensive legendary loot (+DPS, Attack Speed, Melee Crit, etc.) then yes, guards will suck at soloing. Our survivability in addition to awesome burst damage (Decimate, Retaliatory Strike, Mar, and debuffs (Separate for DPS debuff, Trespass for skill reduction) make up for a zerker's Beserk ability, SK's lifetaps, etc. Plus, everyone should be adorning their gear anyway, it helps a lot.</p>

[Barakuz]

<p>Guards solo fine as we are. However, when compared to our brother tanks we have some significant disadvantages when soloing.</p><p>We dont dps great - look it's ok but not as quick to kill a mobs compared to a Zerker or SK (with all things being equal - gear player capability)</p><p>We can heal ourselves</p><p>We cant Evac</p><p>We cant FD</p><p>Oh and before you mention survivability...it's not relevant when soloing, it only becomes relevant in instances and more specifically raid encounters.</p><p>So basically, a Guardian gives up a significant amount to be marginally better at raid encounters.</p><p>Bara</p>

[pickleman]

<p>I agree with you 110% Bara, but survivability does play a role in soloing. While the other classes have the ability to burn quickly before taking a lot of hits, guards need a little more time and that's what their survival abilities are for (I'm not  JUST talking about Fortify or Hunker abilities.) For example, during RoK before I hit 140 AAs, I relied on a couple things for soloing in offensive stance against yellow ^'s in JW:</p><p>Retaliatory Strike is incredibly useful against the hard-hitting mobs, so that's around 12 seconds (can't remember) that the mob can't auto attack and you can land your CA's. Obviously not effective against epics and some heroic nameds, but that survival tactic buys us time for CA's to refresh and land some hits.</p><p>When Retaliatory Strike wears off, we have 3 others to minimize damage while we refresh CA's/auto attack: Separate (M1 and AA bonuses makes it a 33% DPS reduction, strong point for guards,) Immobility (it decreases our DPS slightly but also that and the attack speed of the mob is decreased,) and our Fortify and Wall of Armor, a great mitigation combo. It just buys us time, so while the solo fights are a little longer, we're taking a lot less damage than a different tank class would in the same period of time.</p><p>It's the tradeoff we made when we rolled guards <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gisallo]

<p><cite>pickleman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I agree with you 110% Bara, but survivability does play a role in soloing. While the other classes have the ability to burn quickly before taking a lot of hits, guards need a little more time and that's what their survival abilities are for (I'm not  JUST talking about Fortify or Hunker abilities.) For example, during RoK before I hit 140 AAs, I relied on a couple things for soloing in offensive stance against yellow ^'s in JW:</p><p>Retaliatory Strike is incredibly useful against the hard-hitting mobs, so that's around 12 seconds (can't remember) that the mob can't auto attack and you can land your CA's. Obviously not effective against epics and some heroic nameds, but that survival tactic buys us time for CA's to refresh and land some hits.</p><p>When Retaliatory Strike wears off, we have 3 others to minimize damage while we refresh CA's/auto attack: Separate (M1 and AA bonuses makes it a 33% DPS reduction, strong point for guards,) Immobility (it decreases our DPS slightly but also that and the attack speed of the mob is decreased,) and our Fortify and Wall of Armor, a great mitigation combo. It just buys us time, so while the solo fights are a little longer, we're taking a lot less damage than a different tank class would in the same period of time.</p><p>It's the tradeoff we made when we rolled guards <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>This is the same argument that eventually made the difference in terms of dps between guards and zerks ST to shrink to where it is today.  3 years ago being a Guardian was like the fighter version of a Templar...S L O W.  I know there are Guards here that remember those days.  Now yeah it takes a little longer to kill the mob on a guard (not much though) but you are left standing longer.  Thats the balance from the old school "offensive vs defensive" tank paradigm.  Matter of fact soloing is the ONLY place you will still see the vestiges of that paradigm thanks to some hari brained schemes about ST and AE tanking.</p><p>I did some experimenting with a friend that was a guard in ROK.  We went to the same area of fens and went after the beaties.  We then looked at each other after the fights.  After the fights we had roughly the same health, I just killed the mob faster.  Yeah it took him longer BUT if he could kill them as fast as I could then he would have had more health than me at the end of the fight and that would be a little off no?</p>

[pickleman]

<p>I absolutely remember the slowness of soloing years back before our auto-attack tables were equalized with zerkers occurred, etc. We're not fast killers, but going back to the initial post in this thread, it is by no means "painful."</p><p>Forgot to mention too that we have Sentinel Sphere, which is basically like 6 free stoneskin chances...I use it more soloing than in groups!</p>