Pally / SK Balance question

[Teircen]

<p>I played my dwarven paladin up to about lvl 32.  Generally speaking I found it to be slow and painful compared to any other class I've played much so far (Illusionist, Warden, Monk, Fury, Wizard, Necromancer, Conjuror, Brigand).  Granted, monk aside this is my first tanking class so I expected some differences.  </p><p>Doing some of the GU quests where mobs are spawned even con to your character I very nearly died most times, went through all my power, and it usually came down to the last few blows either way.  It was always a very long and drawn out battle.  None of the other classes ever seemed that hard or slow to play.</p><p>Then I had a reason to move him to an evil town (from Qeynos to Neriak actually) and decided to betray him to shadowknight just to see the differences since I hadn't tried an SK before.  I was left utterly floored at the differences.  I find that with the same gear/stats he does more damage, comes through the same type fights at near full health, but still goes through power like crazy.  After a painful slow crawl to 32 as a paladin, once betrayed to shadowknight he went up 12 levels in about 2 nights!  Then not only does he seem to have better DPS and better self-healing but also seems to hold agro better, has feign death, and group evac now.</p><p>I was hoping to see where maybe eventually I'd move him back to paladin but with the difference in how things are working out I can't see where I'd say the two classes seem at all balanced to each other.  What I'm looking for here is someone who can defend how paladins are balanced against an SK.  I'm hoping I'm really just missing some key aspects here.  Or is it generally a publicly accepted reallity that the two classes aren't really well-balanced?   I'd still like to find a good reason (other than personal preference) to betray back to paladin.  What am I missing here?</p>

[Aull]

<p>In everyday norrath my friends claim that an sk will seem superior in dps, aggro, soloability, and survivablity. However they do have paladins too and they say on the tougher heroic and raid fights the defenses of the paladin will out shine the sk. Again that is just what I hear from my friends. They do agree that sk's do more dps and soloing is faster. For grouping though they enjoy the paladin more.</p><p>Another bounus is that the paladin (pre tso) should have much better aggro control single or multi target than the other fighters. Paladins are possibly the best fighter for being in defensive stance yet still able to hold aggro due to the amends ability. Once GU 51 is out and the stances are changed this should make a paladin even better if they are able to keep amends as an ability.</p><p>I would say lvl up your sk and then betray at 80 and see what you think.</p>

[Zorastiz]

<p>I haven't played an SK in EQ2 (I did in EQ1) so I can't speak to that but I just picked up an old lvl 26 alt a Troll Paladin, he is now 32. I was in Nek forest this weekend soloing mobs 3 levels higher than he was at the time. No I'm not professing to be an expert nor and I suggesting I have a superiority complex but I just didn't see any significant downsides as compared to your experience.</p><p>Maybe I will see a difference later in levels who knows, if this thread lives I'll report back later to let you know how it goes.</p><p>Good luck</p>

[Aull]

<p>One thing I would mention here is that yes your experience with a low lvl paladin/sk will be much different than say lvl 60+ pally/sk.</p><p>I like it when I personally find that one sub-class excels in one area like tanking, but the oposite sub-class may not be as well suited defensively but is more offensive. If the any two sub-classes (guardian/zerker, paladin/sk, and monk/bruiser) can do equal tanking, utility, dps, survivability, or any other catagory then why have two sub-classes. For me I like a separation or separating factors that give some type of individuality.</p><p>Like I have mentioned my friends play both crusaders and for the most part they will say that in everyday norrath both do and excellent job tanking for groups if played correctly with an advantage to the paladin for better aggro managment and toughness.</p><p>Both crusaders are very good aoe fighters even more so at the higher lvls with proper aa's. For soloing the sk will be slightly better yet the paladin can solo as well. Dps single target would be in the sk's favor, but the paladin will hold with if not beat the sk aoe damage wise (pre tso).</p><p>Good journey to you.</p>

[Tommara]

<p>My main is a ranger.  Although ranger isn't the best at dps, she solos very well compared to other dps classes.  When grouped with a good tank, her damage output is huge.</p><p>So I chose paladin as an alt, as something completely different.  My thinking was, if I want to be a solo dps class, my ranger is great at it.  I've also got a necromancer alt (and templar and warden).  I had started an SK along with the paladin, but deleted the SK, since although the SK solo-ed better than the pally, the SK didn't even begin to compare to my ranger (or necro) solo.  So why bother?</p><p>So far, I like the pally (low 20's).  I dunno how it will pan out group-wise (obviously, I didn't choose pally for its dps or solo-ability).  I do know that if dps is your preference, you'd be better off playing anything but a healer or tank class, and since pally is both of those, it should be a no-brainer that pally would not be a good choice for you.  Doesn't mean that pally is not a viable class.</p>

[Kordran]

<p>Paladins are defensive tanks, and purely in terms of solo content, comparably Shadow Knights will perform better. The Paladin's strengths are in their ability to control encounters (aggro management), take damage and heal/ward (both themselves, and others). Their weakness is that their ability to hold aggro is largely tied to another player (through Amends), and overall their damage output is low. At higher levels, there are abilities and spells that will make soloing content easier and fighting undead is generally an advantage to the Paladin.</p><p>Where Paladins tend to really shine is at the end-game with difficult group content and in raids. Many guilds prefer them as their MA (main assists) in raids, working with the MT (main tank) who is usually a Guardian. But getting to that point can be a challenge.</p><p>In any case, if you're looking for a character to primarily solo and run some instances with, it sounds like you'll be a lot less frustrated with the Shadow Knight.</p>

[Teircen]

<p>So, I was mostly soloing with my paladin before which might explain a lot.  Sounds like the paladin really shines best under group conditions to have good mit and hold agro in defensive stance.  So far my SK seems to be doing well enough at that in groups but really we're talking small groups (3-4) people and still lowish level (40-50).  Sounds like there is some hope for switching back at  higher level if I continue grouping.  For now, though, I'm still doing a lot of soloing too so probably sticking with SK for a bit longer at least.</p><p>Thank you for the good responses all.</p>

[Aull]

<p>I once read about a raid somewhere in these forums that was composed entirely of paladins and no other classes. It said that the raid was successful. As for the truth of it I don't know but many people have eluded that is was a real event. If so that it awesome.</p>

[Gwarsh]

<p><cite>Aull wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I once read about a raid somewhere in these forums that was composed entirely of paladins and no other classes. It said that the raid was successful. As for the truth of it I don't know but many people have eluded that is was a real event. If so that it awesome.</p></blockquote><p>I wasnt there, wish i had been but here is some video links to it that i was directed too when i looked for it</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_zahZnw7mc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_zahZnw7mc</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpmN_0fT9gE">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpmN_0fT9gE</a></p>

[Kallirye]

<p>That is what I love about Paladins and why I have played 2 Paladins almost exclusively since launch (I have other characters, but the Paladins definitely see most of my play time), it is their versatility and effectiveness in a group or raid situation. When someone mentioend haveing an entire raid of Paladins, I believed it right away. Every one of them is able to heal, ward, rez, has great mitigation, resists, avoidance, group buffs, and MT buffs. We do okay damage against a single target, but lots of damage against multiple group targets. There was another post a couple of years ago about a raid Paladin who was regularly one of the top DPSers when going up against large groups of enemies.</p><p>As a side note, does anyone know if the group buffs from the AA Wisdom line stack?</p>