Avatars Bugged?

[Geothe]

<p>So, all of a sudden over the course of 24 hours, Avatars have been dropping like flies.They magically become gimpy for a reason?</p>

[Deadly Aveng]

<p>Avatars are bugged, badly.</p><p>Same scripts as last expansion, their crits are only doing max damage +1 not the full +90% they were doing originally, and crit mitigation gear is allowing their crits to effectively do less damage than a normal full damage attack does.</p><p>They either need to yank the loot and stop the avatars from spawning, like they did at the beginning of RoK when the Crushbone guilds exploited the no adds spawning on Below, or they are going to say good bye to anyone interested in progression through the content.</p>

[Burnout]

<p>nothing is buged - it's more likely a question of which avatar is up & the psychological effect of the first avatar beeing down & suddenly all major raidguilds realise "yes we can".</p><p>the issue that avatars are going down to guilds who didn't even clear one tso raid zone, or that avatars in general are going down before 75%+ of raidzones are cleared - is another question....</p>

[Fomka]

<p>SoE should immediately despawn all the avatars on all servers and remove all the loot guilds already got from avatars, otherwise this expansion is will be dead pretty soon.</p>

[Wades]

<p>Yeah lol</p><p>This "exclusive" content is actually being killed by non-authorized guilds!!</p>

[Geothe]

<p>when contested mobs are being killed with -EASE- when only a half dozen guilds have cleared the EASIEST INSTANCE in the expansion.That just screams that something is messed up with Avatars.If SoE doesn't act quickly by despawning all Avatars and removing all avatar loot, then the whole raid progression for this expansion as been screwed up less than a month after release.</p>

[Mogzilla]

<p><cite>Burnout wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>nothing is buged</p></blockquote><p>Um no, they are bugged, their crits are only doing max damage + 1 from my understanding, they are the same avatars they had in ROK but with the best loot in this expansion.</p><p>Avatars are supposed to be the hardest encounters in the game and you are telling me they its normal for them to be dropping like flys even though on most servers the easiest instanced content has yet to be cleared?</p><p>Avatars should be globally despawned NOW and all loot gained REMOVED.</p>

[Wades]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>when contested mobs are being killed with -EASE- when only a half dozen guilds have cleared the EASIEST INSTANCE in the expansion.</p></blockquote><p>Killed with -EASE- by guilds equiped with RoK-Avatars-Items + 170+ AA + 4 to 5 TSO Raid Sets pieces and aware of the mob script from last tier. Usually one, rarely two guilds on each server, less than 40 people.</p><p>As it is,  this "contested" mobs may be more "contested". That's why I spoke of "exclusive" content.</p><p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If SoE doesn't act quickly by despawning all Avatars and removing all avatar loot, then the whole raid progression for this expansion as been screwed up less than a month after release.</p></blockquote><p>The whole raid progression for one to two guilds on each server will be screwed.</p>

[Geothe]

<p>If you are ignorant enough to believe that Avatars should be cleared long before the new instances in the game are cleared, well then I have some beach front property in Arizona to sell you, great price!</p><p>Seriously.A set of Avatars are completely bugged (their crits aren't hitting like they should at all) and the loot gained by killing these mobs needs to be removed from the game immediately until they are actually killed with the encounters working like they should be.</p>

[thajo]

<p>No they are bugged.  Anyone see the "good" avatars dropping?  I mean theres 3 up at once and none of the "good" avatars are known to be bugged yet.  Hmmm, everyone has a good avatar up yet not a single one has dropped from all these avatar capable guilds.  So they're bugged and people killed them, nothing wrong with that, most sane people would take advantage of the situation.  But the people who are delusional and pretending like their guild is just that awesome and people shouldn't knock them for their kills and its just hating etc, i mean lawl ;p  Atleast half the guilds killing these bugged avatars have the sense to recognize the situation for what it is and not try to play it off like everythings working perfect.  I think people are scared to lose their amazing loot ;o  Who would wanna lose it but cmon, it has to somewhat feel like typing in cheat codes to get advantages you normally wouldn't have this early on.  If they wern't bugged people who can survive the current dead ones should be able to survive all the other ones =/</p><p>This happened in rok but, a Hoop of Planar Power with 4% crit and a power proc doesn't quite progress a guild like some of these new items that are dropping.</p>

[Anastasie]

<p>They need to despawn them and remove any loot gained from killing these bugged avatars. If they don't, all raid progression will be meaningless.</p>

[Gaellen]

<p>I'd like a clear answer from a dev on the situation. We didn't bother wasting any time with them last night because of a general belief they are bugged, taking advantage of them would be exploiting, and the loot would be removed. Tanks with ONE piece of crit mit gear - guilds who've not even cleared the first, "easy" raid instance - are killing these things. That's absolutely not the progression laid out when the expansion launched. The mobs are significantly easier than instances and drop miles better loot... that just doesn't sound right.</p><p>If I'm wrong and they're working as intended, great! We'll go get started on our free gear and stop worrying about clearing the instance raids until we've geared up on avatars.</p>

[i2good4u]

<p>BUMP.</p><p>[Removed for Content], SOE, you must depop/deloot/fix/repop avatars immediately.</p>

[Deadly Aveng]

<p><cite>Wades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>when contested mobs are being killed with -EASE- when only a half dozen guilds have cleared the EASIEST INSTANCE in the expansion.</p></blockquote><p>Killed with -EASE- by guilds equiped with RoK-Avatars-Items + 170+ AA + 4 to 5 TSO Raid Sets pieces and aware of the mob script from last tier. Usually one, rarely two guilds on each server, less than 40 people.</p><p>As it is,  this "contested" mobs may be more "contested". That's why I spoke of "exclusive" content.</p><p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If SoE doesn't act quickly by despawning all Avatars and removing all avatar loot, then the whole raid progression for this expansion as been screwed up less than a month after release.</p></blockquote><p>The whole raid progression for one to two guilds on each server will be screwed.</p></blockquote><p>No, killed with ease because they are doing <em><strong>LESS DAMAGE WHEN THEY CRIT</strong></em> than when they don't crit on half their attacks.</p><p>This is comparable to going into a heroic zone and having the mobs only hitting for 500 damage. Ever.</p><p>If you have zero experience and only have some envy driven retardation to post, don't bother.</p>

[corndog2451]

<p><cite>Dakkota@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No they are bugged.  Anyone see the "good" avatars dropping?  I mean theres 3 up at once and none of the "good" avatars are known to be bugged yet.  Hmmm, everyone has a good avatar up yet not a single one has dropped from all these avatar capable guilds.  So they're bugged and people killed them, nothing wrong with that, most sane people would take advantage of the situation.  But the people who are delusional and pretending like their guild is just that awesome and people shouldn't knock them for their kills and its just hating etc, i mean lawl ;p  Atleast half the guilds killing these bugged avatars have the sense to recognize the situation for what it is and not try to play it off like everythings working perfect.  I think people are scared to lose their amazing loot ;o  Who would wanna lose it but cmon, it has to somewhat feel like typing in cheat codes to get advantages you normally wouldn't have this early on.  If they wern't bugged people who can survive the current dead ones should be able to survive all the other ones =/</p><p>This happened in rok but, a Hoop of Planar Power with 4% crit and a power proc doesn't quite progress a guild like some of these new items that are dropping.</p></blockquote><p>Dakkota can solo avatars!</p>

[Skratttt]

<p>Man why do i just know about this now!??  Omg this cant be broken... crit mit is suposed to make crits hit for less than regular hits!!!</p><p>Yes avatars are supposed to be easier to kill than clearing instanced zones and drop better loot!!</p>

[Pik'ee]

<p>Can we get an official answer on this pls?</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p><span style="color: #99cc00; font-size: large;">HELLO? DEVS? WAKE UP!?!?!?!?!?!</span></p>

[Pik'ee]

<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: arial black,avant garde; color: #ff0000;">HELLOS?</span></p>

[Pik'ee]

<p>UP!</p>

[i2good4u]

<p><strong>BUMP!</strong></p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Skaffen@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: arial black,avant garde; color: #ff0000;">HELLOS?</span></p></blockquote><p>Hellos!</p>

[Deadly Aveng]

<p>Any Dev... at all...?</p><p>Apparently they don't even read their official boards to find problems</p>

[Nevao]

<p><cite>Deadly Avenger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Any Dev... at all...?</p><p>Apparently they don't even read their official boards to find problems</p></blockquote><p>No, more likely they are just not responding while they try to figure out what exactly is really happening (not always the same as what's being reported). My memory may be off, but they don't typically comment about exploits until they are closed (provided this is even an exploit). Even then they don't necessarily say what it was just that one was addressed and actions are being/may be taken to address any exploiters.</p><p>They also could be avoiding commenting becuase of the all the "HELLOS" and other crass attempts (i.e. giant font different color texts) to prod them into doing what the poster wants (i.e. comment) instead of working on what needs to be done. Probably not the case, but man I wouldn't blame them.</p>

[Deadly Aveng]

<p>If they were working on a fix, spawns of avatars would have stopped. Loot would have been removed. A statement would be made.</p><p>Currently they are more than likely trying to figure out how to say the scripts and mechanics for some avatars are broken but its not their fault, that they understand that this completely destroys their progression of itemization, and aren't going to do anything about it till next LU.</p><p>You know, like they did with Reactives and procs.</p>

[Kalifi]

<p><strong>WHY arent Avatars depoped and recieved loot removed? Avatars being bugged absolutely makes raid progression meaningless in this expansion if not fixed. Getting some of the TSO avatar loot pieces to players will trivalize instanced raidcontent or at best give unfair advantage on raid instances progression race to guilds abusing bugged Avatars. And will make comparision off raid progression between guilds on different servers meaningless. </strong></p><p><strong>Developpers need to look into this ASAP or you going to find lot of disappointed raiders quit the game!</strong></p>

[Deadly Aveng]

<p>Some guilds won the Avatar spawn lottery and then won the RNG loot lottery and have Main Tanks with 80%+ Crit Mitigation due to getting the new tank breastplate and the new tank plate helm.</p><p>There went itemization if the loot stays put from these Avatar kills.</p>

[Burnout]

<p>why are people complaining on avatars they never fought? before you judge theire crit dmg - FIGHT them.</p><p>the usual guilds clearing things first are behind in this expansion, cause theire rosters don't support enough healpower to simply heal through some scripts. guild(s) that had no problem with using soe dev insider infos to be able to kill trakanon, now discover theire sense of fairness. and now we see a ton of people discusing the avatar issue, without even knowing what they talk about. again, before you judge the crit dmg - fight an avatar below 50%... wipe to 24k crit ae's, wipe to double crit hits on your mt - don't just copy what you heard that someone said who knows someone who...</p><p>beside the issue if they're buged or not - it's sure some are too easy. i don't think any avatar should be doable that early in the expansion. there are guilds killing avas that didn't even clear mad crusader. i think no one should be able to kill any avatar before they're able to clear palace.</p>

[Lauraliane]

<p><cite>Burnout wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>why are people complaining on avatars they never fought? before you judge theire crit dmg - FIGHT them.</p><p>the usual guilds clearing things first are behind in this expansion, cause theire rosters don't support enough healpower to simply heal through some scripts. guild(s) that had no problem with using soe dev insider infos to be able to kill trakanon, now discover theire sense of fairness. and now we see a ton of people discusing the avatar issue, without even knowing what they talk about. again, before you judge the crit dmg - fight an avatar below 50%... wipe to 24k crit ae's, wipe to double crit hits on your mt - don't just copy what you heard that someone said who knows someone who...</p><p>beside the issue if they're buged or not - it's sure some are too easy. i don't think any avatar should be doable that early in the expansion. there are guilds killing avas that didn't even clear mad crusader. i think no one should be able to kill any avatar before they're able to clear palace.</p></blockquote><p>Haven't you noticed this thread is only like 4 people talking to themselves over and over again ?</p><p>I find it extremely funny that some of those people claims that avatars are totally bugged and even easier than in Rok, but took 4 hours and 9 healers to kill disease, I guess disease probably took them like 12 healers in RoK then !</p><p>Avatars are dying, and the devs won't be removing anything, some of the avatars are easiers, others are harders, simply because their script are differents and so they are being affected in different way by the added crit.</p><p>Balancing crit mit which is already a random factor, is extremely hard, there are tons of things that can make a raid and even more a group more or less resilient : HP, Resists, Gears, Buffs, Debuffs etc. The perfect balance doesn't exist as their are way too many factors in it. Function of all those factors the survivability of someone in a raid can be increased by like 50%, compared to another person in the SAME raid. Hell I go from 12k to 17k hp if I am in G1 or G2.</p><p>So what? do you tune the avatars so that everyone get one shotted besides the G1 ? In a world where everyone would have the same HP, resists, gears, buffs, debuffs etc etc, sure you could tune the avatars perfectly, but there is just way too many things that can vary in a raid setup, the warden crit mitigation buff and assassin crit debuff are just one of them for example.</p><p>A dev apparently stated they ll be tuned a bit by tuesday, but don't expect any major changes. You can only do so much to tune an encounter when people know its script by heart cause they have fought it for 2 years now and when the only "difficulty" is how hard it hits.</p><p>This is the first time that Avatars are really available from the start of an expansion, added to that their script haven't changed much, and there weren't any level cap increase, the only thing they do is hitting "harder", and people are surprised some of them are dying ? Come on...</p><p><cite>Deadly Avenger wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Some guilds won the Avatar spawn lottery and then won the RNG loot lottery and have Main Tanks with 80%+ Crit Mitigation due to getting the new tank breastplate and the new tank plate helm.</p><p>There went itemization if the loot stays put from these Avatar kills.</p></blockquote><p>Our tank is 115% crit mit (with warden buff), but that's also because we killed Gynok and got the legs did you ? And well we also attrib our pattern intelligently rather than using DKP that makes your casters getting more pattern than your tank and healers.</p>

[firza]

<p><cite>Aylin@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite><span ><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/user/profile.m?user_id=128680"><span style="color: #3333ff;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Lauraliane</span></span></a></span> wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>This is the first time that Avatars are really available from the start of an expansion, added to that their script haven't changed much, and there weren't any level cap increase, the only thing they do is hitting "harder", and people are surprised some of them are dying ? Come on...</blockquote></blockquote><p>If avatars are killable from the beginning of this expansion, then this is probably the last expansion where we will see contested spawns.</p><p>Its exactly why I was against popping easy contested in the previous expanion. These shoulw be so hard that they require efford, coordination, and are only killable AFTER completing most of an expansion.</p><p>They should not become THE stepping up stone for guilds to kill the instanced NPC's like they would be in their current form.</p>

[Ballads]

<p><cite> </cite></p><blockquote><p>Haven't you noticed this thread is only like 4 people talking to themselves over and over again ?</p><p>I find it extremely funny that some of those people claims that avatars are totally bugged and even easier than in Rok, but took 4 hours and 9 healers to kill disease, I guess disease probably took them like 12 healers in RoK then !</p><p>Our tank is 115% crit mit (with warden buff), but that's also because we killed Gynok and got the legs did you ? And well we also attrib our pattern intelligently rather than using DKP that makes your casters getting more pattern than your tank and healers.</p></blockquote><p>So your saying the more healers you have to use the harder the mob is ? That the situation this expansion has brought us to unfortunately, but god it isn't the way it should be and we all know it. Mobs critting and crit gear for progression is stupid. Of course people are gonna out-heal that mob that they cant get high enough crit mit to beat. The only way to stop that from happening would be to use dps mins or some sort of time limits( like gynoks resses were supposed to cause.) T6 actually did a better job of gear progression by simply making t5 mitigation worthless.</p><p>You dont think by having that much crit mit on your main tank it completly ruins progression ?</p>

[Lauraliane]

<p>I didn't say it was right. It is a fact period.</p><p>The whole critical mitigation mechanics used as "progression" was a risky bet for the devs. And all in all, it works a lot better than I expected, to be honest.</p><p>But guilds that have been farming avatars for almost 2 years and are almost at a "professional" level of raiding are the ones that "strech" the numbers the most, and so it was bound to happen that progression was "bypassed" at one time or another. But who is it affecting really ? at most one guild per server?</p><p>For the most part I think the critical mitigation progression will work well for all the others guild of the server and that's probably what the devs wanted in priority. They can't tune a whole progression based on a new and tricky mechanic like critical mitigation for avatar raiding guilds, that just wouldn't work.</p><p>As for progression getting ruined for us, I don't think no, a few avatars item will certainly makes a few things easier, but won't trivialize anything. Mynzak for example never kicked our ... because we were missing criticial mitigation, but because its script is a complete mess.</p><p>If you remove the avatars raiding guild from the picture, I d say the progression is quite fine. We are the exception, not the rule.</p>

[Jerisi]

<p>Record time killing avatars... Voracity took out Mischief as if they were in the currect tier set pieces and mischief was still the same old ROK mob.  Well ok not as if....  but this is how it was.  In less then 2 hours 2 avatars were dead and almost a 3rd...  I see that as an issue. </p><p>To make it fair... change the loot to scaled loot from instances (Tomb, Palace or Guk) or just simply remove it.  To allow these guilds to keep items dropped from a bugged avatar would not be like SoE.  In RoK when avatars were bugged the loot was removed, as well as avatar spawns til they were fixed.  I think this deserves the same attention. </p><p>My 2 copper pieces!</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Wades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Killed with -EASE- by guilds equiped with RoK-Avatars-Items + 170+ AA + 4 to 5 TSO Raid Sets pieces and aware of the mob script from last tier. Usually one, rarely two guilds on each server, less than 40 people.</p><p>As it is,  this "contested" mobs may be more "contested". That's why I spoke of "exclusive" content.</p></blockquote><p>A guild on Innovation killed Avatar of War however that guild hasn't killed Gynok or Tythus.  Ya, seems working as intended.</p><p>That'd be like killing an avatar before clearing VP in RoK.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Aylin@Storms wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As for progression getting ruined for us, I don't think no, a few avatars item will certainly makes a few things easier, but won't trivialize anything.</p></blockquote><p>So your MT being at 115% crit in raids, and never getting crit ever, doesn't change how fast you'll progress through content?</p>

[Wades]

<p>Who cares really ?</p><p>Avatars are for one -max two- guild on each server. Those guilds have generally 30- players and 'round 50 accounts.</p><p>Devs did not spent much time on them ? Ok. They rewamped two loot pinata avatars (flames and valor). Ok nice of them.</p><p>So the avatars are basicly the same as in RoK and nearly the same as in EoF. Wow what a shame...</p><p>For the rest, the progression of ONE - 1 - guild on each server will be not as planned (by THAT guild itself it even seems).</p><p>Since back in EoF, I was in a guild that was not killing avatars and once had a Flame oportunity and failed at 7% by lack of pratice. So I am for this change on avatars! Not n°1 guilds allowed to take a chance on avatars and getting some cool loots. Currently it's one guild on each server so stop talking about contested mobs :p</p>

[Anastasie]

<p>So - I don't see any update notes for todays update. Have the avatars been fixed and has the loot been removed from all who exploited these broken encounters?</p>

[Mogzilla]

<p><cite>Wades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Who cares really ?</p><p>Avatars are for one -max two- guild on each server. Those guilds have generally 30- players and 'round 50 accounts.</p><p>Devs did not spent much time on them ? Ok. They rewamped two loot pinata avatars (flames and valor). Ok nice of them.</p><p>So the avatars are basicly the same as in RoK and nearly the same as in EoF. Wow what a shame...</p><p>For the rest, the progression of ONE - 1 - guild on each server will be not as planned (by THAT guild itself it even seems).</p><p>Since back in EoF, I was in a guild that was not killing avatars and once had a Flame oportunity and failed at 7% by lack of pratice. So I am for this change on avatars! Not n°1 guilds allowed to take a chance on avatars and getting some cool loots. Currently it's one guild on each server so stop talking about contested mobs :p</p></blockquote><p>Thats not the point, Avatars are supposed to be the hardest mobs in the game, hench why they generally drop the best loot.</p><p>You now have guilds who can not even finish instanced content , dropping avatars getting the better avatar loot.</p><p>Why even bother doing the instance content now when you can skip it and got to easier kill, better loot avatars?</p><p>The equivlent would be like the shaman in RE2 being easier to kill then the final boss in CoA.  Who would run COA when they could get the much much better RE2 loot for less work?</p><p>Its bugged and the fact that it has not been fixed yet and loot removed is a serious fail.</p>

[Pik'ee]

<p>Avatars are not fixed..<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> no patch either...<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />((</p><p>WTG SOE! Thanx for destroying all Progression...<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>and you not even replying means alot...</p>

[gainerface]

<p>They're too busy killing avatar's to reply.</p>

[Ilucide]

<p>There's a whole lot of misinformation going around about this.</p><p>First, nothing was bugged. The damage on some of the older Avatar AEs was a little low, which made the crits look like they were a little low, and spiraled into some sort of theory that their crits were bugged. Think of it this way - if an AE does 1k damage, even with a 2.0 multiplier on the crit, it's still only going to be doing 2k max, which can still be healed through when a raid is stacked for healers.</p><p>Second, the term "ease" is a misnomer. Most of the guilds that have managed to do this have stacked their raids for extreme healing, and in many cases have tried to kill the avatars in question for hours on end.</p><p>Third, after pulling up the number of avatar pieces that have dropped, the total number of avatars killed across all servers in the last week is a number under 20. Certainly not enough to actually impact progression, as most of the raids beyond what people have finished really require most of the raid to be decked in TSO gear, not just one or two people.</p><p>I don't believe in removing items earned unless the parties involved were grossly exploiting a game system. In this case, that's not what's happened. The issues with the fights have been addressed, and all will be right after the next hotfix.</p><p>Thanks for your time,</p>

[Pik'ee]

<p>Thx for your reply man!..<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>But one thing....why you turned progression backwards now?</p><p>Shouldnt it be, that Avatars are the toughest Mobs the game has to offer?</p><p>or am i wrong?</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Ilucide wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's a whole lot of misinformation going around about this.</p><p>First, nothing was bugged. The damage on some of the older Avatar AEs was a little low, which made the crits look like they were a little low, and spiraled into some sort of theory that their crits were bugged. Think of it this way - if an AE does 1k damage, even with a 2.0 multiplier on the crit, it's still only going to be doing 2k max, which can still be healed through when a raid is stacked for healers.</p><p>Second, the term "ease" is a misnomer. Most of the guilds that have managed to do this have stacked their raids for extreme healing, and in many cases have tried to kill the avatars in question for hours on end.</p><p>Third, after pulling up the number of avatar pieces that have dropped, the total number of avatars killed across all servers in the last week is a number under 20. Certainly not enough to actually impact progression, as most of the raids beyond what people have finished really require most of the raid to be decked in TSO gear, not just one or two people.</p><p>I don't believe in removing items earned unless the parties involved were grossly exploiting a game system. In this case, that's not what's happened. The issues with the fights have been addressed, and all will be right after the next hotfix.</p><p>Thanks for your time,</p></blockquote><p>First:  When criticals are your only avenue for making content hard, having the avatars of the Gods not crit is a pretty big oversight, aka bug.  The fact that only some are dying makes this point even more obvious.</p><p>Second:  I'd say if a guild can kill the Avatar of War but they can't kill Gynok or Tythus, then that is easy in any definition of the word.  Wouldn't you?  I'd say if a guild can kill the Avatar of Tranquility but not kill Gynok or Tythus, that is easy.  I think most people who are familiar at all with this game's raid content would also.</p><p>Third:  When one avatar bp has crit mitigation, and damage reduction than almost the entire fabled set combined, when you have guilds who have killed a few of these avatars with MTs who already have 100% crit mitigation, I'd say that is a big deal.</p><p>So you add a forced progression mechanic like crit mit, you make all loot except avatar loot and 2 pieces of set gear have almost none of it, and then you accidentally push broken avatars live which happen to drop some of the best crit mit gear in the entire game.  You then leave guilds subject to not one but two RNGs (which avatar they'll get, and which loot it will drop); congrats on the lucky guilds who got tank gear.</p><p>Progression may not matter to you but it does matter to some of your paying subscribers.  That progression is pretty much worthless now.</p><p>Also, don't even get me started on your healer stacking fix:  arbitrary combat timers.  That is probably one of the worst design mechanics idea you guys have had yet.  Just anothe way to punish raiders instead of making content that works at the appropriate difficulty the first time.</p><p>Thanks for your time.</p>

[Geothe]

<p>If avatars are being dropped by many guilds LONG before any of the current instances are cleared (and ONLY Madcrusader has been cleared) then something IS horribly wrong.If you dont believe that, you are so out of touch that its pitiful.</p><p>But, i guess the theme of the last few weeks really has been to give the middle finger to as much of the player base as possible.to the raiders by completely screwing up any raid progression.to the playerbase as a whole with this station cash BS.</p><p>quality i must say.</p>

[Pogopuschel]

<p><cite>Wades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Who cares really ?</p><p>[...]</p><p>For the rest, the progression of ONE - 1 - guild on each server will be not as planned (by THAT guild itself it even seems).</p></blockquote><p>Congratulations, you just answered your own question, from the looks of it.</p><blockquote><p>Since back in EoF, I was in a guild that was not killing avatars and once had a Flame oportunity and failed at 7% by lack of pratice. So I am for this change on avatars! Not n°1 guilds allowed to take a chance on avatars and getting some cool loots. Currently it's one guild on each server so stop talking about contested mobs :p</p></blockquote><p>Call them <strong>contestables</strong>, not contested if wording is so important to you. But, if more than one guild can kill em per server (which is already or at least will be the case on most of them), then progression is screwed for more than one guild, effectively killing your first argument.</p><p>So what if the guilds that kill them have 170+ AA? So what if they have good gear from RoK? Fact is, more than half of them haven't cleared any TSO instance yet. Other guilds, once on the same level, whenever that is, will have the same issues. Avatar scripts for the most part take little time to learn in comparison to TSO instances anyway, imo.</p>

[Fomka]

<p><cite>Ilucide wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Third, after pulling up the number of avatar pieces that have dropped, the total number of avatars killed across all servers in the last week is a number under 20. Certainly not enough to actually impact progression, as most of the raids beyond what people have finished really require most of the raid to be decked in TSO gear, not just one or two people.</p></blockquote><p>Have you just pulled this number out of nowhere? Because you're completely wrong. We've got 5 avatar kill's only on our server. Every other server got 3-5 kills aswell. Now let's do the simple math and think if this big number is enough to actually impact progression.</p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>Gage wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>First:  When criticals are your only avenue for making content hard, having the avatars of the Gods not crit is a pretty big oversight, aka bug.  The fact that only some are dying makes this point even more obvious.</p><p>Second:  I'd say if a guild can kill the Avatar of War but they can't kill Gynok or Tythus, then that is easy in any definition of the word.  Wouldn't you?  I'd say if a guild can kill the Avatar of Tranquility but not kill Gynok or Tythus, that is easy.  I think most people who are familiar at all with this game's raid content would also.</p><p>Third:  When one avatar bp has crit mitigation, and damage reduction than almost the entire fabled set combined, when you have guilds who have killed a few of these avatars with MTs who already have 100% crit mitigation, I'd say that is a big deal.</p><p>So you add a forced progression mechanic like crit mit, you make all loot except avatar loot and 2 pieces of set gear have almost none of it, and then you accidentally push broken avatars live which happen to drop some of the best crit mit gear in the entire game.  You then leave guilds subject to not one but two RNGs (which avatar they'll get, and which loot it will drop); congrats on the lucky guilds who got tank gear.</p><p>Progression may not matter to you but it does matter to some of your paying subscribers.  That progression is pretty much worthless now.</p><p>Also, don't even get me started on your healer stacking fix:  arbitrary combat timers.  That is probably one of the worst design mechanics idea you guys have had yet.  Just anothe way to punish raiders instead of making content that works at the appropriate difficulty the first time.</p><p>Thanks for your time.</p></blockquote><p>By my experience, avatars did hit critically. I have 58% mitigation with 8% critical mitigation and War always hits me 25k-30k+. I am wondering which avatar you were talking about without crit hit.</p><p>For difficulty comparison, I still think avatars of war is a harder encounter than Gynok or Tythus. Tythus is really an easy fight. The only challenge in this fight is your healers have to cure fast. Otherwise, this encounter is so straight. Gynok, encounter itself is not hard to figure out. The hard part of this fight is you need lucky to get enough critical mitigation for you tanks. You need more than 1 tank with enough critical mitigation. I can foresee that more and more guilds will beat this encounter when their tanks are geared up with critical mitigation.</p><p>Basically, each avatar fight is much complex than instance named. However, no matter how complex the encounters are, it's no longer a challenge for people who have beaten those encounters for 2 years.</p><p>For new player, the progression is fine. It's much harder to figure out avatar encounters than instance named.</p>

[Pogopuschel]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>For new player, the progression is fine. It's much harder to figure out avatar encounters than instance named.</p></blockquote><p>Are you sure you are talking about EQ2?</p><p>Tell me, how many attempts will you need on Growth to know what is going on? I'll give you a leet strat, have every group use AE avoid on pull and make sure your MT doesn't die on incoming - if you don't know everything what the encounter does after two pulls, given the narratives in huge red letters, I'm sure one of the other 23 people in the raid will. I'm not saying that means that you can beat the encounter automatically if you've never fought it before, but figuring it out certainly is not the problem. Gynok for example will take more than that to know everything that is going on.</p><p><cite>Ilucide wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Third, after pulling up the number of avatar pieces that have dropped, the total number of avatars killed across all servers in the last week is a number under 20.</p></blockquote><p>According to what a guildmate just pulled off eq2players.com, server discoveries:</p><p>Charm of Tunare - 4 ServersCharm of Bertoxxulous - 8 ServersCharm of Brell - 1 ServerCharm of Bristlebane - 5 ServersCharm of Karana - 3 ServersCharm of Quellious - 2 ServersCharm of Rallos Zek - 13 Servers</p><p>I realise a day or two has passed but eq2players is always a bit behind and I'm sure it's even more now.And eq2players doesn't include Russian servers e.g.</p>

[Spe]

<p><cite>Ilucide wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There's a whole lot of misinformation going around about this.</p><p>First, nothing was bugged. The damage on some of the older Avatar AEs was a little low, which made the crits look like they were a little low, and spiraled into some sort of theory that their crits were bugged. Think of it this way - if an AE does 1k damage, even with a 2.0 multiplier on the crit, it's still only going to be doing 2k max, which can still be healed through when a raid is stacked for healers.</p><p>Second, the term "ease" is a misnomer. Most of the guilds that have managed to do this have stacked their raids for extreme healing, and in many cases have tried to kill the avatars in question for hours on end.</p><p>Third, after pulling up the number of avatar pieces that have dropped, the total number of avatars killed across all servers in the last week is a number under 20. Certainly not enough to actually impact progression, as most of the raids beyond what people have finished really require most of the raid to be decked in TSO gear, not just one or two people.</p><p>I don't believe in removing items earned unless the parties involved were grossly exploiting a game system. In this case, that's not what's happened. The issues with the fights have been addressed, and all will be right after the next hotfix.</p><p>Thanks for your time,</p></blockquote><p>Totally wrong!</p><p>Avatar of Dicease was killed on the Barren Sky server within 30 minutes of pulls. Avatar of Mischief was killed on the third pull. On AoW maximum damage to tank with 17 crit miti from the critical double atack was 22K with the average around 8K. Hey, even Taskmaster hits much harder!</p><p>So avatars not bugged at all?</p><p>P.S. And this was just a regular raid without any "healer stacking" - there are no reasons for any stacking of that sort if avatar hit like a baby.</p>

[Wades]

<p>I won't change my mind on progression. The progression of only one guild per server is flawed. But I do believe that anyhow this guild will have been first on most of the content anyway since it earns advantages throught high-end contents from the previous tier (equipments, strats, skills & motivated (and skilled) players).</p><p>I agree that currently killed avatars require some attention and that they are not hitting as hard as they should visibly with their AE's (plus dog on avatar of war is sometimes rooted, avatar of hate is not resetting and depop, avatar of tranquility can be aggro and does not speak to you).</p><p>But to be honest, every raiding guild was expecting some of the avatars to be easier than others and starting their hunting season with them. Whatever that easiness was requiring (3+ templars, 3+ defilers, 9+ healers, 4-5 warlocks etc...).</p><p>It's a bit early in the extension but don't blame the guild that dared to pull an avatar. In beta, avatars were very hard even with critical mitigation armors (full raid) & 200 AA, I guess the data collected then lead to the tuning that allowed killings.</p><p>As it is now most of the challenges are in instances for the single reason many of these mobs have raid killing abilities that most avatars don't have. Of course, the new avatars (Health & Anashi) and the rewamp ones (Flames and Valor) are not likely to down soon.</p>

[krrr]

<p><cite>Wades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I won't change my mind on progression. The progression of only one guild per server is flawed. But I do believe that anyhow this guild will have been first on most of the content anyway since it earns advantages throught high-end contents from the previous tier (equipments, strats, skills & motivated (and skilled) players).</p><p>I agree that currently killed avatars require some attention and that they are not hitting as hard as they should visibly with their AE's (plus dog on avatar of war is sometimes rooted, avatar of hate is not resetting and depop, avatar of tranquility can be aggro and does not speak to you).</p><p>But to be honest, every raiding guild was expecting some of the avatars to be easier than others and starting their hunting season with them. Whatever that easiness was requiring (3+ templars, 3+ defilers, 9+ healers, 4-5 warlocks etc...).</p><p>It's a bit early in the extension but don't blame the guild that dared to pull an avatar. In beta, avatars were very hard even with critical mitigation armors (full raid) & 200 AA, I guess the data collected then lead to the tuning that allowed killings.</p><p>As it is now most of the challenges are in instances for the single reason many of these mobs have raid killing abilities that most avatars don't have. Of course, the new avatars (Health & Anashi) and the rewamp ones (Flames and Valor) are not likely to down soon.</p></blockquote><p>We killed War, Growth and Storms. Growth was killed in 3 pulls, storms in 2 pulls (tank got KB on first pull and encounter reset), war took a little bit longer but still was very easy. They were not criting for any kind insane damage, they were not one-shooting tanks, AE damage on growth was laughable for everybody. (Overall damage output was lower then in RoK). On the other hand Valor, Flame, <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Growth</span> (read Health) were killing raid in with no problem (AE for 50-60k? easy, double auto-attack for 100+k? No problem).</p><p>Simple Fact: Some avatars ARE bugged.</p>

[Wades]

<p><cite>Darlock@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>On the other hand Valor, Flame, <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">Growth</span> were killing raid in with no problem (AE for 50-60k? easy, double auto-attack for 100+k? No problem).</p><p>Simple Fact: Some avatars ARE bugged.</p></blockquote><p>Question is which ones ?</p><p>Except if Mynzak/instancied Anashi, Zarakon or Ykhesa drops I-can-survive-avatars-AEs-&-double-attacks stuff. It's not like high-end encounters were frequently killed after a patch or hot-fix.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p>TBH flagging worked in RoK.   it let people who put in the time to raid everyday see content that a pick up raid could not.</p><p> sure the first two mobs in VP could be killed by a pick up with ease but flagging was what kept proggression in check, so why not flag avatars with instance proggression?    everyone here agrees that contested is end game so to clear instance content first to be able to kill the end game mobs(avatars, not casual contested) makes sense.  </p>

[Kokus]

<p><cite>Fomka wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ilucide wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Third, after pulling up the number of avatar pieces that have dropped, the total number of avatars killed across all servers in the last week is a number under 20. Certainly not enough to actually impact progression, as most of the raids beyond what people have finished really require most of the raid to be decked in TSO gear, not just one or two people.</p></blockquote><p>Have you just pulled this number out of nowhere? Because you're completely wrong. We've got 5 avatar kill's only on our server. Every other server got 3-5 kills aswell. Now let's do the simple math and think if this big number is enough to actually impact progression.</p></blockquote><p>But doesn't EQ2 only have 5 servers?</p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>Uyaem@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>For new player, the progression is fine. It's much harder to figure out avatar encounters than instance named.</p></blockquote><p>Are you sure you are talking about EQ2?</p><p>Tell me, how many attempts will you need on Growth to know what is going on? I'll give you a leet strat, have every group use AE avoid on pull and make sure your MT doesn't die on incoming - if you don't know everything what the encounter does after two pulls, given the narratives in huge red letters, I'm sure one of the other 23 people in the raid will. I'm not saying that means that you can beat the encounter automatically if you've never fought it before, but figuring it out certainly is not the problem. Gynok for example will take more than that to know everything that is going on.</p></blockquote><p>Are you sure you are talking about EQ2?</p><p>Gynok is much easier to figure out the script if you can keep your tanks up who need enough crit mitigation. Also, two pulls to know avatar of growth? Lol, ya, if you can keep your raid alive to figure out.</p><p>The truth is, Gynok isn't any harder to figure out the script if you can keep your tanks alive. If you can't, you suck and I am sure the other 23 people in the raid will.</p>

[Pogopuschel]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you sure you are talking about EQ2?</p><p>Gynok is much easier to figure out the script if you can keep your tanks up who need enough crit mitigation. Also, two pulls to know avatar of growth? Lol, ya, if you can keep your raid alive to figure out.</p><p>The truth is, Gynok isn't any harder to figure out the script if you can keep your tanks alive. If you can't, you suck and I am sure the other 23 people in the raid will.</p></blockquote><p>Stay alive on Growth for 1min and you know everything the encounter does. You can't say the same about Gynok which was my point.</p><p>So, since Elysium hasn't killed Gynok yet, I guess you just called your guild a bunch of suckers, grats <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>Uyaem@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you sure you are talking about EQ2?</p><p>Gynok is much easier to figure out the script if you can keep your tanks up who need enough crit mitigation. Also, two pulls to know avatar of growth? Lol, ya, if you can keep your raid alive to figure out.</p><p>The truth is, Gynok isn't any harder to figure out the script if you can keep your tanks alive. If you can't, you suck and I am sure the other 23 people in the raid will.</p></blockquote><p>Stay alive on Growth for 1min and you know everything the encounter does. You can't say the same about Gynok which was my point.</p><p>So, since Elysium hasn't killed Gynok yet, I guess you just called your guild a bunch of suckers.</p><p>But you were the guy who thought in RoK that Avatar of Below was just fine without adds popping, so instead of arguing with you I'll just laugh instead. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Haha, nice trolling.</p><p>Just as what I posted, it's easy to figure out the script but you need lucky to get crit mitigaion gear for your tanks to beat this encounter. If you can't read, please play less game and go back to school and learn how to read. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Oh, and Xanadu must not suck and beated Gynok already. LOL</p><p>Besides, below did pop epic adds in our pull and there were 2 other guilds there. We must suck since we killed it and other two guilds can't. </p>

[Pogopuschel]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Uyaem@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you sure you are talking about EQ2?</p><p>Gynok is much easier to figure out the script if you can keep your tanks up who need enough crit mitigation. Also, two pulls to know avatar of growth? Lol, ya, if you can keep your raid alive to figure out.</p><p>The truth is, Gynok isn't any harder to figure out the script if you can keep your tanks alive. If you can't, you suck and I am sure the other 23 people in the raid will.</p></blockquote><p>Stay alive on Growth for 1min and you know everything the encounter does. You can't say the same about Gynok which was my point.</p><p>So, since Elysium hasn't killed Gynok yet, I guess you just called your guild a bunch of suckers.</p><p>But you were the guy who thought in RoK that Avatar of Below was just fine without adds popping, so instead of arguing with you I'll just laugh instead. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Haha, nice trolling.</p><p>Just as what I posted, it's easy to figure out the script but you need lucky to get crit mitigaion gear for your tanks to beat this encounter. If you can't read, please play less game and go back to school and learn how to read. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Oh, and Xanadu must not suck and beated Gynok already. LOL</p></blockquote><p>Uhm, you were the one who said who can't beat it sucks, I actually consider it a hard encounter. But thanks for putting words in my mouth, looks like you should take some of those reading lessons yourself.</p><p>The fact that more guilds killed avatars than Gynok paired with the idea of contestables being the hardest raid encounter in the game proves me right, so argue the truth all you want.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Wades wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Except if Mynzak drops I-can-survive-avatars-AEs-&-double-attacks stuff. It's not like high-end encounters were frequently killed after a patch or hot-fix.</p></blockquote><p>Mynzak has been killed by a few guilds now that they nerfed him to nothing.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Gynok is much easier to figure out the script if you can keep your tanks up who need enough crit mitigation.</p></blockquote><p>No you don't, we killed Gynok with our tanks having almost no crit mit gear.  No legs, no BP, not enough to matter.  You do need a minimum of 7 healers though and a lot of DPS.</p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>Uyaem@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Uyaem@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Are you sure you are talking about EQ2?</p><p>Gynok is much easier to figure out the script if you can keep your tanks up who need enough crit mitigation. Also, two pulls to know avatar of growth? Lol, ya, if you can keep your raid alive to figure out.</p><p>The truth is, Gynok isn't any harder to figure out the script if you can keep your tanks alive. If you can't, you suck and I am sure the other 23 people in the raid will.</p></blockquote><p>Stay alive on Growth for 1min and you know everything the encounter does. You can't say the same about Gynok which was my point.</p><p>So, since Elysium hasn't killed Gynok yet, I guess you just called your guild a bunch of suckers.</p><p>But you were the guy who thought in RoK that Avatar of Below was just fine without adds popping, so instead of arguing with you I'll just laugh instead. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Haha, nice trolling.</p><p>Just as what I posted, it's easy to figure out the script but you need lucky to get crit mitigaion gear for your tanks to beat this encounter. If you can't read, please play less game and go back to school and learn how to read. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Oh, and Xanadu must not suck and beated Gynok already. LOL</p></blockquote><p>Uhm, you were the one who said who can't beat it sucks, I actually consider it a hard encounter. But thanks for putting words in my mouth, looks like you should take some of those reading lessons yourself.</p><p>The fact that more guilds killed avatars than Gynok paired with the idea of contestables being the hardest raid encounter in the game proves me right, so argue the truth all you want.</p></blockquote><p>Wow, When did I say you suck if you can't beat it?</p><p>I said if you can't <em><strong>figure out the script</strong></em>, then you suck. Dude, the script of Gynok is no more complex than avatars. The difference is, you need more than 1 tank with enough crit mitigation gear to beat Gynok and in some avatars, you need only MT with enough crit mitigation gear to beat it.</p><p>Even though, it takes much more team work to beat avatars than Gynok. When most guilds get enough crit mitigation gear, Gynok is trivial.</p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>Gage wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Gynok is much easier to figure out the script if you can keep your tanks up who need enough crit mitigation.</p></blockquote><p>No you don't, we killed Gynok with our tanks having almost no crit mit gear.  No legs, no BP, not enough to matter.  You do need a minimum of 7 healers though and a lot of DPS.</p></blockquote><p>You called your tanks having almost no crit mit gear due to they didn't have legs and bp? Nice try.</p>

[speedycerv]

Gotta flame.. I love people that think they are more knowledgable about mechanics in a game than the people who work at the company... really makes you look like.. well.. not too bright.

[Wytie]

<p>A dev can come here and try to explain all he wants on how he thinks Avatars could be killed this soon in the xpac, but the simple fact is NONE of them should have been killed untill every person in the raid has a metric ton of crit mit which shouldnt be possible for some time yet still.</p><p>So the fact that ANY of them have been killed already is a sure fire sign that they ARE broken, sure maybe not all of them but the ones that have been killed were.</p><p>coincidence?  I THINK NOT!</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Ishidaa@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Gotta flame.. I love people that think they are more knowledgable about mechanics in a game than the people who work at the company... really makes you look like.. well.. not too bright.</blockquote><p>Haha.  Right.  Because SOE is always right and up front about what is really going on?</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You called your tanks having almost no crit mit gear due to they didn't have legs and bp? Nice try.</p></blockquote><p>Yes because the 15 you can get from the other 3 set pieces are so amazing.</p>

[Fomka]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I said if you can't <em><strong>figure out the script</strong></em>, then you suck. Dude, the script of Gynok is no more complex than avatars. The difference is, you need more than 1 tank with enough crit mitigation gear to beat Gynok and in some avatars, you need only MT with enough crit mitigation gear to beat it.</p><p>Even though, it takes much more team work to beat avatars than Gynok. When most guilds get enough crit mitigation gear, Gynok is trivial.</p></blockquote><p>You don't need crit miti for gynok. All you need is 3 tanks/leet dps/non sucking healers and a brain to figure out the best way to kill it.</p>

[feldon30]

<p><cite>Ishidaa@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Gotta flame.. I love people that think they are more knowledgable about mechanics in a game than the people who work at the company... really makes you look like.. well.. not too bright.</blockquote><p>Most of the discussions about game mechanics that come up on this forum are gamers who have discovered flaws in the mechancs through detailed analysis of the game using ACT and other tools.</p><p>I don't think it is a stretch to say that there ARE some gamers who understand the parts of the game better than some of the developers. Part of this is due to turnover and not a fault of the devs. The agro/taunt situation is so tangled up and broken that devs are making major changes to how this system works, and it will be players who determine, through detailed analysis with ACT, how it's working.</p><p>If you don't know what ACT is, you /fail. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[feldon30]

<p><cite>Pail@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A dev can come here and try to explain all he wants on how he thinks Avatars could be killed this soon in the xpac, but the simple fact is NONE of them should have been killed untill every person in the raid has a metric ton of crit mit which shouldnt be possible for some time yet still.</p></blockquote><p>It is really surprising to me that any avatars are killable 1 month after TSO is out. I agree it screws up progression if you can get items right now with 40 points of Crit Mit.</p>

[Deadly Aveng]

<p>Ilucide, sorry but that was a really poorly informed post.</p><p>I don't know who gave you that information but they were grossly incorrect on not just number of avatars killed, how crits are/were working, but also on how easily the avatars were killed.</p><p>Knowing crits were not working at the double damage modifier count only took looking at the logs and seeing a critical hit from an AE doing less damage than a normal hit from that same AE on a character with crit mitigation over 20. Some avatars had their scripts work randomly, like Avatar of War's dog, most of the time it was rooted to where it spawned allowing it to be completely ignored, sometimes the Avatar would crit for 25k+ most the time it was just laughable at watching "crits" of 5k.</p><p>The number of guilds who have killed Avatars this expansion <em>far and away</em> out numbers the amount of guilds who have killed even Gynok in Tomb of the Mad Crusader or even Mynzak in Palace of the Ancient One. And those guilds have all killed multiple avatars. On every server this has been done.</p><p>Some of the items from the Avatars completely destroy the item progression through the raid content, when you have tanks with over 80% crit mitigation you can just cycle AE Immunities and heavy Ward/Reactives/Deathsaves on key classes  forthe rest of the raid and just run Priest heavy and complete content.</p><p>Thanks for showing that not only is broken content going to be implemented, but it is going to be rationalized by someone who doesn't know what is going on.</p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>Fomka wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I said if you can't <em><strong>figure out the script</strong></em>, then you suck. Dude, the script of Gynok is no more complex than avatars. The difference is, you need more than 1 tank with enough crit mitigation gear to beat Gynok and in some avatars, you need only MT with enough crit mitigation gear to beat it.</p><p>Even though, it takes much more team work to beat avatars than Gynok. When most guilds get enough crit mitigation gear, Gynok is trivial.</p></blockquote><p>You don't need crit miti for gynok. All you need is 3 tanks/leet dps/non sucking healers and a brain to figure out the best way to kill it.</p></blockquote><p>And your tanks must switch out crit mitigation gear in this encounters. /shrug</p><p>What you said just back up my post, this encounter is easy to figure out and will be trivialized when your tanks have more crit mitigation for most guilds.</p>

[Couching]

<p><cite>Gage wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You called your tanks having almost no crit mit gear due to they didn't have legs and bp? Nice try.</p></blockquote><p>Yes because the 15 you can get from the other 3 set pieces are so amazing.</p></blockquote><p>When a mob can hit 30k, with 1.3 crit multipler, it can hit critically to 39k. If your tank has 60% mitigation, 15% crit mitigaiton lower the incoming damage from 15.6k to 13.8k. It's almost 2k less per hit. Yes, it's nice to have crit mitigation even it's only 15%.</p><p>Not to say, there are five pieces excluding bp and legs. 3 pieces have 10 crit mitgation and 2 pieces have 5 crit mitigation.</p><p>Now, dude, you better tell us how you get 15% crit mitigation with 3 set pieces. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Couching@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not to say, there are five pieces excluding bp and legs. 3 pieces have 10 crit mitgation and 2 pieces have 5 crit mitigation.</p></blockquote><p>Since Mynzak didn't die to anyone until this Wednesday, there was 4 set peices you could get (boots/gloves/bracers/helm).  None of our 4 tanks had more than 3 pieces, most had 2.  One 10 mit piece and one 5 mit piece.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>Growth down today on Everfrost POST changes.  Great fix SOE!~</p>

[Deadly Aveng]

<p>Seriously, where can we get an interview for a position to step in and do an interrim unscrewing of this game?</p><p>Because the people paid to make it work, can't do their jobs.</p>