TSO Group Instance: Why NO-ZONE on products created?

[Kraetec]

<p>First, I understand completely why the 'supplies' found in the instances are NO-ZONE.  There is simply no reason for them to be taken outside of the instance and it helps keep the database under control.</p><p>However, I cannot think of any reason why the actual products created in the instances (ie, "Traditional Kaladim Jewelry") should be NO-ZONE.   I've tried my best to think of how it might be used as an exploit if they were not flagged as such; however, nothing comes to mind.</p><p>The reason that this is an issue is because if you go linkdead while crafting, you will lose everything that you have crafted since the last time you did a "turn in". </p><p>Therefore, I would like to officially suggest and request that the end PRODUCTS that are created in the TSO tradeskill instances *not* be flagged as NO-ZONE.   <em>(The NO-TRADE and NO-VALUE flags are appropriate and good.)</em></p>

[Wingrider01]

<p><cite>Kraetec wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>First, I understand completely why the 'supplies' found in the instances are NO-ZONE.  There is simply no reason for them to be taken outside of the instance and it helps keep the database under control.</p><p>However, I cannot think of any reason why the actual products created in the instances (ie, "Traditional Kaladim Jewelry") should be NO-ZONE.   I've tried my best to think of how it might be used as an exploit if they were not flagged as such; however, nothing comes to mind.</p><p>The reason that this is an issue is because if you go linkdead while crafting, you will lose everything that you have crafted since the last time you did a "turn in". </p><p>Therefore, I would like to officially suggest and request that the end PRODUCTS that are created in the TSO tradeskill instances *not* be flagged as NO-ZONE.   <em>(The NO-TRADE and NO-VALUE flags are appropriate and good.)</em></p></blockquote><p>1. players gets instance finishes it, then goes back and makes 48 more of each item</p><p>2. zones out, places in bank</p><p>3. waits till the next choice for the instance comes around again, gets quest again, zones out goes to bank, gets 12 each of the item, zones back in turns in premade items. quest of complete</p>

[Intermisceo]

<p><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kraetec wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>First, I understand completely why the 'supplies' found in the instances are NO-ZONE.  There is simply no reason for them to be taken outside of the instance and it helps keep the database under control.</p><p>However, I cannot think of any reason why the actual products created in the instances (ie, "Traditional Kaladim Jewelry") should be NO-ZONE.   I've tried my best to think of how it might be used as an exploit if they were not flagged as such; however, nothing comes to mind.</p><p>The reason that this is an issue is because if you go linkdead while crafting, you will lose everything that you have crafted since the last time you did a "turn in". </p><p>Therefore, I would like to officially suggest and request that the end PRODUCTS that are created in the TSO tradeskill instances *not* be flagged as NO-ZONE.   <em>(The NO-TRADE and NO-VALUE flags are appropriate and good.)</em></p></blockquote><p>1. players gets instance finishes it, then goes back and makes 48 more of each item</p><p>2. zones out, places in bank</p><p>3. waits till the next choice for the instance comes around again, gets quest again, zones out goes to bank, gets 12 each of the item, zones back in turns in premade items. quest of complete</p></blockquote><p>that player in question still did the work though, right?  as long as the item is NO-TRADE i wouldnt see a big deal in it.  The only issue i might have seen with them being brought outside would be selling/buying on broker.</p><p>----unless----</p><p>1. players gets instance finishes it, then goes back and makes 48 more of each item</p><p>2. zones out, places in bank</p><p>3. waits till the next choice for the instance comes around again, gets quest again<span style="font-family: arial black,avant garde;">, this time with a group of friends,</span> zones out goes to bank, gets 12 each of the item, zones back in turns in premade items. quest of complete</p><p>maybe they thought about that.  Wingrider is assuming that the group mission would be done by a single player every time.  it might be used in an unauthed way.  imagine the idea:  paying somebody say 2p for a guaranteed far seas token.  ( i guess it could still be done, but not as quickly)</p>

[Kraetec]

<p>How about then we change it from NO-ZONE to TEMPORARY?    I'm trying to remember, but doesn't TEMPORARY just mean that it lasts for a certain amount of time after you log out?  So, it would survive a link death?</p><p>I have to admit, I'm not 100% sure I remember exactly how TEMPORARY works, but perhaps it would solve the issue.</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Kraetec wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How about then we change it from NO-ZONE to TEMPORARY?    I'm trying to remember, but doesn't TEMPORARY just mean that it lasts for a certain amount of time after you log out?  So, it would survive a link death?</p><p>I have to admit, I'm not 100% sure I remember exactly how TEMPORARY works, but perhaps it would solve the issue.</p></blockquote><p>Temp IS no zone.</p>

[Vortexelemental]

<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kraetec wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How about then we change it from NO-ZONE to TEMPORARY?    I'm trying to remember, but doesn't TEMPORARY just mean that it lasts for a certain amount of time after you log out?  So, it would survive a link death?</p><p>I have to admit, I'm not 100% sure I remember exactly how TEMPORARY works, but perhaps it would solve the issue.</p></blockquote><p>Temp IS no zone.</p></blockquote><p>No, Temporary is no log. It remains with you till you log out.</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kraetec wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How about then we change it from NO-ZONE to TEMPORARY?    I'm trying to remember, but doesn't TEMPORARY just mean that it lasts for a certain amount of time after you log out?  So, it would survive a link death?</p><p>I have to admit, I'm not 100% sure I remember exactly how TEMPORARY works, but perhaps it would solve the issue.</p></blockquote><p>Temp IS no zone.</p></blockquote><p>No, Temporary is no log. It remains with you till you log out.</p></blockquote><p>Nonetheless, Kraetec wants something to persist after log out, for an undefined span of time.  Even if temp is until log out, it wouldn't suit.</p>

[Kraetec]

<p>I was thinking that TEMPORARY items remained a few minutes after linkdeath/logout.   I do not recall losing rez feathers, etc. on raids even when going linkdead for a few minutes.</p><p>That's really the goal of my suggestion:  avoid losing an hour's worth of work just because you went linkdead for three minutes.</p>

[Nebbeny]

Temp remains with you if you LD, for example the hearts and shards from summoners. So this should be entirely possible to do, and stop frustrating loss of items

[Oh]

<p><cite>Kraetec wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was thinking that TEMPORARY items remained a few minutes after linkdeath/logout.   I do not recall losing rez feathers, etc. on raids even when going linkdead for a few minutes.</p><p>That's really the goal of my suggestion:  avoid losing an hour's worth of work just because you went linkdead for three minutes.</p></blockquote><p>While that(making them temporary so they poof after so long) is probably a good solution, one could always just turn in your stuff more frequently. I mean really as soon as I start the mission I pick up the quest to make 3 items, and then I turn them in every so often. If going LD is something that happens frequently then turn them in frequently, if it's more rare, then turn them in when you feel you don't want to loose your effort you put in. Probably every 12 combines would be a good general rule of thumb just to be safe.</p>

[SilkenKidden]

<p><cite>Kraetec wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>First, I understand completely why the 'supplies' found in the instances are NO-ZONE.  There is simply no reason for them to be taken outside of the instance and it helps keep the database under control.</p><p>However, I cannot think of any reason why the actual products created in the instances (ie, "Traditional Kaladim Jewelry") should be NO-ZONE.   I've tried my best to think of how it might be used as an exploit if they were not flagged as such; however, nothing comes to mind.</p><p>The reason that this is an issue is because if you go linkdead while crafting, you will lose everything that you have crafted since the last time you did a "turn in". </p><p>Therefore, I would like to officially suggest and request that the end PRODUCTS that are created in the TSO tradeskill instances *not* be flagged as NO-ZONE.   <em>(The NO-TRADE and NO-VALUE flags are appropriate and good.)</em></p></blockquote><p>Is it really a problem to do the turn in for every three combines? </p>

[EQ2Magroo]

<p><cite>Silken@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Is it really a problem to do the turn in for every three combines? </p></blockquote><p>Not really, except if I am soloing the zone I have to speak to NPC once and can go and make the items. Otherwise I've got to come back and speak to him 9 x 4 times. That's quite a difference.</p><p>Also, if I get an ...Insight buff, I want to be able to use it and run out a batch of items. Having to stop and waste time talking to the NPC just seems wrong.</p><p>Edit: bad maths <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Wingrider01]

<p><cite>Intermisceo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kraetec wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>First, I understand completely why the 'supplies' found in the instances are NO-ZONE.  There is simply no reason for them to be taken outside of the instance and it helps keep the database under control.</p><p>However, I cannot think of any reason why the actual products created in the instances (ie, "Traditional Kaladim Jewelry") should be NO-ZONE.   I've tried my best to think of how it might be used as an exploit if they were not flagged as such; however, nothing comes to mind.</p><p>The reason that this is an issue is because if you go linkdead while crafting, you will lose everything that you have crafted since the last time you did a "turn in". </p><p>Therefore, I would like to officially suggest and request that the end PRODUCTS that are created in the TSO tradeskill instances *not* be flagged as NO-ZONE.   <em>(The NO-TRADE and NO-VALUE flags are appropriate and good.)</em></p></blockquote><p>1. players gets instance finishes it, then goes back and makes 48 more of each item</p><p>2. zones out, places in bank</p><p>3. waits till the next choice for the instance comes around again, gets quest again, zones out goes to bank, gets 12 each of the item, zones back in turns in premade items. quest of complete</p></blockquote><p>that player in question still did the work though, right?  as long as the item is NO-TRADE i wouldnt see a big deal in it.  The only issue i might have seen with them being brought outside would be selling/buying on broker.</p><p>----unless----</p><p>1. players gets instance finishes it, then goes back and makes 48 more of each item</p><p>2. zones out, places in bank</p><p>3. waits till the next choice for the instance comes around again, gets quest again<span style="font-family: arial black,avant garde;">, this time with a group of friends,</span> zones out goes to bank, gets 12 each of the item, zones back in turns in premade items. quest of complete</p><p>maybe they thought about that.  Wingrider is assuming that the group mission would be done by a single player every time.  it might be used in an unauthed way.  imagine the idea:  paying somebody say 2p for a guaranteed far seas token.  ( i guess it could still be done, but not as quickly)</p></blockquote><p>solo or group the senario fits. Although I have solo'd 80 percent of these zones up to 40+k of faction</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Kraetec wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was thinking that TEMPORARY items remained a few minutes after linkdeath/logout.   I do not recall losing rez feathers, etc. on raids even when going linkdead for a few minutes.</p><p>That's really the goal of my suggestion:  avoid losing an hour's worth of work just because you went linkdead for three minutes.</p></blockquote><p>I also have not had an issue with losing No Zone Items after a crash... including these items as I have crashed doing these quests. As long as you get back quickly, and the zone does not poof from the server. Your best bet is to log in as fast as possable, turn in what you can then logout and reboot.</p>

[Kraetec]

<p>I suppose all of these solutions 'work'; however, I believe that changing the flag from NO-ZONE to TEMPORARY would be the best solution.</p><p>It'd also be interesting to hear the dev's personal reasoning for making the products NO-ZONE in the first place.  Like I said originally, I understand the NO-ZONE with regard to the component; however, considering the fact that whether you make them ahead of time or not, you're still spending the time to make them, I guess I don't understand the reasoning for them being NO-ZONE.   Perhaps it was an oversight?</p>

[Lishara]

<p>I've lost them from crashing.  In my case, the crash was a blue screen that rebooted my system.  When I logged back in they were gone.  (Something from the last patch made it impossible for me to dual box on one pc now... sigh)</p>