What happened to the Zerker in combat health regen?

[DeathRider69]

<p>I unmothballed my 75 Zerker and found he is not 100% useless as a character in the game now.  What the heck happened?  I used to rather enjoy the fact that in combat I could get some good incombat health regen to bridge the gap between life and death but even fighting level 67 ^^^ in Bonemire I was having to run away or die.   He has 51.7 mit against 75s, 38% avoidance, and > 6K on all resists.</p><p>In just a single fight with "a cacotoxic abomination" - 67 ^^^ I had a huge 8 incombat health regen and blood rage proced for a whapping 890 heal to a mob hitting me for 302 DPS. </p><p>I brought up a level 72 bruiser, 73 guardian, 74 monk, and a 70 necro.  All of them had no problems dispatching the same mob easily (never getting below yellow).  I respected the Zerker to all forms of configs to see if that would help but it seems the Zerker has now lost all possible usefulness. </p><p>I don't remember seeing any update notes saying they were removing the incombat health regens so when did it happen?  I mean I quit playing the zerker when he was no longer even useful as  tank even with the DPS build so I guess I just missed it.  It is really sad that this once semi-useful fighter is now nothing more than a plate tank of last resort when I really need to do a run and we don;t have a tank.  Even then I won;t run a zone without at least 2 healers since he gets owned faster then ANY other fighter class character equally equipped in Master Crafted armor.</p>

[scottman355]

<p>Please don't come to these boards saying the Berserker is worthless, I and countless other players would beg to differ.</p><p>Berserkers are one of the best tanks in this expansion, period.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

[DeathRider69]

<p>Maybe in the expansion but when trying to grind hum up and he is getting owned by crud mobs thathe used to own a few LUs back makes me wonder what is going on.  He may be good in a group but as of late he is not able to solo very well at all.  I do hope he is better in the expansion dungeons and based on a few runs in there I think he may be but alas I have not been able to run those zones yet with him.  I do know that the Guardian got owned in on with 2 healers but that was before the fixed the uber hit points on them.</p>

[Elanjar]

<p>try it in defensive stance... 38% avoidance blows</p>

[LygerT]

<p>your avoidance sucks, HP regen is not what is killing you.</p>

[DeathRider69]

<p>Well I did a respec of Warrior AAs (only have 63/70 atm in Warrior).  I went down 4-4-8 str, 4-7-8-3 Sta, 6-8-8-0-2 Wis.  but in Def stance with tower shield only 42.5% avoid at level 75 with 51.3 % mit.  I will stay that soloing really sucks but at least when I was running in Befallen. Cavern of the Aflicted, with a 67 defiler and 80 fury I was able to handle the three groups of ^ by the doors.  Now just need a mana battery since I blew through all my power and by the time it was back to 100% (using 80 level drink and Golem totem), the buggers repopped. </p><p>The good news for the zerker was that I was popping out 3k+ DPS against the level 69 mobs when helping the Defiler. </p><p>ACT showed that I was only getting 35% avoidance though so I am not sure how accurate the game versus parse numbers are holding. </p><p>Now if I could get some better armor that would be better defense but who knows. Any suggestions for non-raiders?</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>Your avoidance is HORRIBLE. Wis spec is not helping either in that regard.</p><p>Seriously, ditch the WIS line and put it into INT (44682), the parry mod will help you out a LOT. Also move points out of Reversal and into the shield block enhancer, the shield effectiveness mod will help a lot too.</p>

[Slayer505]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Your avoidance is HORRIBLE. Wis spec is not helping either in that regard.</p><p>Seriously, ditch the WIS line and put it into INT (44682), the parry mod will help you out a LOT. Also move points out of Reversal and into the shield block enhancer, the shield effectiveness mod will help a lot too.</p></blockquote><p>QFE</p><p>Some people seem to have this idea that buckler reversal (or I guess it's just reversal now) is awesome, but it's actually a miniscule amount of our DPS.  The shield effectiveness will help a ton.  Make sure you've got a decent Tower shield too.  There are plenty of Tower or kite shields you can get.  I'd say look for at least 1200-1300 protection.</p><p>You definately want to get rid of Wisdom line.  Unless you're PvPing Wisdom is our worst AA line.</p><p>I don't see you listing what gear you're using so I'd suggest you at least get T8 Mastercrafted to start with.  If you do all the ROK quests you can get some really nice pieces too. Then upgrade to the Void shard stuff when you can.  Zerkers (and tanks in general) are one of the most gear dependant classes out there.  Good gear is essential to being able to do your job and the better your gear, the more fun you'll have.  I haven't even played any of my alts since the expansion came out.</p><p>Get your Zerker geared out and I guarantee you'll have a blast with the new zones.  This expansion is very AE heavy, especially in the heroic zones.  I'd say 2/3 of the heroic encounters in TSO instances are at least 2-3 mobs or more (like the 8-10 mob encounters in Cavern of the Afflicted).</p>

[Kaberu]

<p>I noticed the same thing when the regens went out the door... my solo capabilities as a non-raider went down the tubes. It's not that I couldn't take most of what I could before, but the tougher fights (like the lower level ^^^) I could no longer do... or at least, no longer last as long. I actually regained some of that ability when I specced WIS instead of INT, but apparently, just about everyone else on these boards are against it.</p><p>It's funny someone is saying to ditch the WIS line because the Parry in the INT line helps so much... somehow the +17ish Parry helps more than the effective +23 Defense while in offensive stance that the WIS line gives you. Now the Parry from INT does stack with the defensive stance, but you are still getting an effect +22 to slash/crush/pierce while in defensive from the WIS final. For a non-raider soloer, that helps alot seeing as how hunkering down with all of our defensive buffs usually shoots a soloers DPS down the crapper. In full defensive, you wind up with -22 s/c/p, -34ish haste, -17ish DPS for about 30 seconds or so. Not having that while you are trying to fight a mob can be a big deal when solo.</p><p>A lot of it depends on gear as well as from playstayle so not every spec will work for every player.</p>

[Slayer505]

<p>It's not just the +parry that makes Int awesome.  It's the +parry, +haste (which with the passive haste and accel strike is more then what you lose with Wall of Madness up), and the most important thing- the +recast and recovery from the end line.  All of that far outways what you get from Wis.</p>

[Kaberu]

<p><cite>Karsgaar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's not just the +parry that makes Int awesome.  It's the +parry, +haste (which with the passive haste and accel strike is more then what you lose with Wall of Madness up), and the most important thing- the +recast and recovery from the end line.  All of that far outways what you get from Wis.</p></blockquote><p>It's funny you say that because I most certainly perform worse soloing when I'm specced INT instead of WIS. DPS is higher with INT, but my survivability is a little bit less and my overall combat stamina is noticably lower (that is, I have to stop and rest more often with an INT spec).</p><p>Comparing all aspects of gameplay (solo, group, raid)... INT has the most benefits. But for a modestly geared, heavy soloer, I've found that it's not.</p><p>You should understand, I love the INT line. I WANT the INT line final... but I can't keep fighting and surviving the things I do when solo if I have INT over WIS. That's not a debate: I 100% cannot do the things in INT spec that I can do in WIS spec no matter how hard I tried... at least not as easily. Why? I have no freaking clue, but that's how it is.</p><p>When I build up a set of gear from void shards, I'll give the INT line another go... but since TSO released, I earned a grand total of 4 shards, so it's not like I'm getting there anytime soon. I have no problem tanking the zones, I just have more fun lolligagging, as it were.</p>

[Elanjar]

<p>I'm gonna jump in here and say that the end ability from the Wis line is way better than than the like 18 parry you get from int line.</p><p>That parry mod doesnt even close to make up for the stats you lose by standing in offensive.  And since hes not an uber gear'd zerker with plenty of +skills standing in def probably drops his hit rates so low that he cant even kill a mob in that stance. In his current state I'd bet the WIS line is way better for him...</p><p>Personaly advice stick with the WIS sta combo. stand in defensive stance. Keep your tower sheild out and pop Hold Rage everytime its up. start of with shield bash followed by belly smash. Wait till the belly smash is over then use your master strike. (keeps the mob debuffed as long as possible)</p>

[Wilin]

<p>Discussion of gear, specs and such are nice.</p><p>But, the interesting thing for me is the comparison of the new heal proc to the old regen. I remember the changes that happened during beta where it started out really nice and was nerfed a few times down to it's current form. But, has anyone looked at whether that ended up being a nerf to our self healing during a fight?</p>

[JerronBlacksilver]

<p>New blood regeneration heal proc far and away owns health regen. I've seen a 'Zerker (Karsgaar, in fact) spike over 1k heals per second with Gravitas on him, fighting a swarming horde of ^ mobs. As an AE tank, you'll have a much better time against hordes of no arrow and ^ mobs than against ^^^ 's, especially if you put a few points into the shadows line and get battle hardening; between your heal proc and outright damage reduction, they do surprisingly little damage.</p>

[Obadiah]

<p>New heal pwns regen on multiple mobs. On single targets it's a wash. Honestly if we're sposed to be AoE tanks, it's genius.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>7 points in stamina 2 is a complete waste, no points in int 4 for lesser equipped zerks is NOT a waste in any stance.</p>

[Kaberu]

<p><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>7 points in stamina 2 is a complete waste, no points in int 4 for lesser equipped zerks is NOT a waste in any stance.</p></blockquote><p>I'm guessing you are referring to me as I have 7 points in STA 2 but, uh, I'm not sure what to make of the rest of your sentence. It looks like you are saying that having points in INT 4 when you are lesser equipped berserker is a waste. I'm thinking you mean it the other way around, meaning that having points to +Parry is never a waste. Nobody is saying it is a waste. I've only said that the WIS line is better than having the INT benefits (including the +parry) for me, a lesser geared Berserker. It's made up for the loss of health regen when soloing.</p><p>As for STA 2: Over a one minute span (proccing twice in a minute), it does 1082 - 1804 (1443 average) in damage, mana free. My M2 Frenzied Hits does 1127 - 2824 (1975.5 average) for 130 mana over that same minute. Buckler Reversal also works when I'm stifled, when I'm out of mana, and while I'm casting other abilities.</p><p>It's also far more useful than dumping three points anywhere else. If I put the points elsewhere, at best it's a minor stat buff or maybe an aggro boost. Since I don't have problems holding aggro, even when tanking for raid equipped players, the aggro buff is redundant. Also, the stat boosts are inconsequential, and even 3 points into the Mit buff would be nearly pointless... at least compared to the damage/ToHit boost for the Reversal.</p><p>Perhaps it's useless to you, but I'm not building my stats to be the best "you" I can be, I'm building it to be the best that I can be. So far, what I'm doing is working better... I miss the regen, but with my current spec, I miss it a little less.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>so all those points netted you a whopping 24 dps with full cost(12 dps for 4 more points?) , and yes, i meant parry is not worthless unless you are in endgame gear with a dirge full time.</p><p>more defense allows you to be more offensive.</p>

[Kaberu]

<p><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>so all those points netted you a whopping 24 dps with full cost(12 dps for 4 more points?) , and yes, i meant parry is not worthless unless you are in endgame gear with a dirge full time.</p><p>more defense allows you to be more offensive.</p></blockquote><p>Why am I not surprised that a raid geared Berserker, that is comfortably well defended in said gear, has an almost singular focus on DPS? Is it any wonder that new players come to these boards under the impression that Berserkers are DPS first, tanks second?</p><p>Honestly though, when you say "all those points" are you referring to the whole build or just the three extra points I spent in STA 2? Maybe you meant the WIS 3? I'm unsure as to what you mean but as best attempt to answer... just adding to my DPS does not mean I will survive. adding the STA final does not technically add to my DPS at all... it does sustain my DPS over a longer period of time as well as giving me more health (however miniscule) to last longer. My build was designed to do just that and it works.</p><p>What I don't understand is if it's working great for me, why is there this opposition when I say, "Hey guys! This worked for me and it might for you too! Just FYI!"</p>

[LygerT]

<p>9 months ago i had no better gear than probably the average player, you can keep saying because i am geared then i have no clue how to play a lesser geared toon if you want but the point was still lost there somewhere about parry being right in front of you and being ignored for? a more offensive skill, to which i never said i agreed with, i said more defensives allow you to be more offensive. in fact i don't even know why i argued it in the first place, because you can't have 0 points into wis 4 and get the final ability unless some change i never noticed occurred.</p><p>to be a good tank at anything you have to be a mix of offensive AND defensive, not completely one way or the other as you make me sound.</p><p>stamina- still our best starting AA line, sta 1=worthless so 4 points max, stamina 2= same, 4 points max, stamina 3= less desirable but still the bread and butter next to str3 so 4-8 points, sta 5= quite useful if you are main tanking alot or using adrenaline often.</p><p>strength- our second best AA line, str 1= worthless due to amount of gains, 4 points max, str 2= crit is nice but caps aren't, 4 points max, str 3= second best AA in our EOF tree, 4-8 points preferably 8 because dps equals aggro, str 4= our new defensive buffer to help defensive tanks maintain aggro with less dps, toss all your free points into this, str 5= worthless because no tank should WANT to tank in orange/red.</p><p>intelligence- third best line, int 1= worthless, 4 points max, int 2= second best ability in the line because it offers more haste almost permanently depending on how many points you put in, int 3= semi decent but the haste amount is low and not as needed so i generally suggest 4-5 points max, int 4= still quite useful for lesser geared toons with less than optimal groups, 4-8 points, int 5= third best ability we have in the EOF tree.</p><p>wisdom- fourth best AA tree, wis 1= worthless, 4 points max, wis 2= belly smash is an ok ability for heroics but requires timing and does not work on epics, this is mainly a pvp ability IMO, 4-8 points depending on what style you play, wis 3= dps mod is always good unless you are constantly at cap(200 mod), if you take this line then you definitely want 8 points into this even though the amount you get is marginal at best, wis 4= the amount of mitigation this gives is pretty marginal so i often say 4 points but to get to the final ability you will probably need 8 points in to get there, wis 5= the 5th best ability in the EOF tree because there is less penalty to defensively tanking and missing mobs which = lost aggro.</p><p>i ignore agility because generally zerks avoid it, those who do use this tree know the gains and losses already, or should.</p><p>obviously everyone is going to have their own spec now, i'll give you a hint though, it's not so much our spec but the healers who can keep you alive and if dps plays dumb and is pulling aggro with no hate on the tank then there is little you can do aside from switch to as offensive as you can while still maintaining reasonable survivability. our EoF tree is offensive, more offensive than defensive, offenses allow you to be more defensive while maintaining aggro so gear is equally as important as your AA build while mixing things to become somewhere in the middle in that sweet spot. mitigation is not something i focus on, because we have temporary abilities that we can maintain throughout the duration of most any fight. this is something we all learn and do our own rotations with in time alternating with our temporary defensive buff which also puts even a poor outfitted zerker near an endgame level for a short duration.</p><p>don't take my neglect of mitigation as something that means you can tank in legendary leather as well as you could in fabled plate because there will be times that you will be defenseless(control effects or during cool downs of temporary abilities) so don't read too much into that.</p><p>these are all points every tank should realize by now, so i'm not sure why i repeated it and so lengthily i might add.</p>

[Krieg]

<p><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>you can't have 0 points into wis 4 and get the final ability unless some change i never noticed occurred.</p></blockquote><p>You don't need any points in the 4th box in any tree as long as you have 22 points from the first 3 boxes.  You can go 8-6-8-0-2 or 6-8-8-0-2 etc.  The 4th box is not a requiremant for the end abilities.</p>

[Plane]

<p><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>wisdom- fourth best AA tree, wis 1= worthless, 4 points max, wis 2= belly smash is an ok ability for heroics but requires timing and does not work on epics, this is mainly a pvp ability IMO, 4-8 points depending on what style you play, wis 3= dps mod is always good unless you are constantly at cap(200 mod), if you take this line then you definitely want 8 points into this even though the amount you get is marginal at best, wis 4= the amount of mitigation this gives is pretty marginal so i often say 4 points but to get to the final ability you will probably need 8 points in to get there, wis 5= the 5th best ability in the EOF tree because there is less penalty to defensively tanking and missing mobs which = lost aggro.</p></blockquote><p>I almost always tank instances in offencive stance i'll also duel weild if i can. So the last stat in wisdom is defencive for me. I also like how it removes the penaltys for the hunker move which helps in pvp aswell. Of course there are tough moments when i have to switch stance and then you get the dps advantage. I'd honestly say i'd rank it higher than 5th though its the only real reason to opt for wis over int.</p><p>For me the improvment to hunker is what keeps it as my main aa spec i use it in pvp and without the aa its a button i regret pushing. My mirrors speced int but wis is hard to live without it when your used to it.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>i rank wisdom 5th because the whole tree is not very worthwhile unless you're on a PVP server, the final ability is the only thing that is meaningful but the cost to get it for PVE toons is too stiff. some people love this ability and others still avoid it because for the cost you can swap some gear and still be just as well off.</p>

[Kaberu]

<p><cite><a href="mailto:Lyger@Mistmoore">Lyger@Mistmoore</a> wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>9 months ago i had no better gear than probably the average player, you can keep saying because i am geared then i have no clue how to play a lesser geared toon if you want but ...</p></blockquote><p>I underestand this, and I never said you have no clue, I'm merely suggesting that full time raiders forget some of the finer points of non-raiding play. Someone who almost entirely soloed to the end levels in this game is much different than someone who made it to the end levels by grouping/raiding and then started soloing. That's just an example and maybe not a good one, but maybe this is a better one...</p><p> <cite><a href="mailto:Lyger@Mistmoore">Lyger@Mistmoore</a> wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>... in fact i don't even know why i argued it in the first place, because you can't have 0 points into wis 4 and get the final ability unless some change i never noticed occurred.</p></blockquote><p>You didn't know, which is no big deal, but this is a change that has been there quite a long time. Probably most if not all of that 9 month's ago between the not having the gear, and getting the gear. Obviously this isn't something you forgot over time considering you didn't know it in the first place but, it's safe to say that you didn't know something that was at least mildly important to gameplay and character development. We can safely say that neither of us knows everything about the game.</p><p>AA builds are not as important to someone with the gear to make up any losses. You could probably not have any Warrior spec and still out-tank and out-solo me by far no matter what spec I take. For me, changing my AA spec makes drastic changes to how I perform as they represent a far higher proportion of my capabilities than your AA spec does for you. That last 9 months of you having your gear is 9 months of me tweaking my AAs and testing them just so I could keep up with my raiding friends.</p><p>Now that parry is nice, but it's not as useful as removing penalties from the stances and from hunker (I also have the Stifled penalties removed from the Berserker tree)... at least not as useful for someone geared like me. When I get stuck in a situation where someone nukes or heals too early, I don't usually need to switch stances from defenses to pull the mob off since I can usually hit easily enough (without the stance penalties). Without the WIS final, I did have to switch stances to pull the mobs back, and when the mob turned back on me, I took a huge beating until I switched back to defensive. I had to balance offense and defense in a manner to achieve the best possible results. That's how I wound up with the WIS line. (I did actually start with WIS/INT when we dropped the bucklers, but went to WIS/STA for the final and double attack/shield block bonuses, which seems to be helping more in both offense and defense than INT does... technically I went from Buckler-STA/INT to WIS/INT to STA/INT, earned a bunch-load of TSO AAs, then to STA/WIS to STA/INT again, then back to STA/WIS... so it's not like I haven't been trying).</p><p>For me the WIS final is easily worth any two of the INT abilities so I don't see it as a waste to get there even if the mit debuff and +DPS appear to be smallish bonuses in PVE. It balances my character out and ups both my defensive and offensive capabilities overall. As I've said numerous times before... INT is well worth the points. However, IF you are having trouble with survivability, especially if you were one of the few Berserkers that appreciated the regens, There is no reason to not try out the WIS line to see if it helps.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>you got me, i haven't changed spec for over 2 years because i never had the need to. i'm used to people feeding me crap without any actual information as to why they think i am wrong but it's apparent you've been through the stages of trying to find a median to which all of us have to adjust according to the pieces of gear we pick up and the groups we often find ourself in, so my apologies.</p><p>no, that was sarcasm either.</p>

[Zegon]

<p>I've messed around with my AA specs ever since I started playing a berserker, at the beginning of EoF.  For a long time, I was sitting at:</p><p>4-5-8 str 4-8-8-8-2 sta 4-8-8-0-2 wis.</p><p>Stance Mastery is pretty fantastic, really, and for my purposes (heroic instance tanking) belly smash is amazing, espically if you max out your shield bash EoF AAs to give you a bigger window to smash.  Maxed out, belly smash can do over 2,000 points of mitigation decrease at level 80.  Note however, in TSO, that defensive skill on armor is constantly present on the berserker/guardian set equipment (Heroic steel, I beleive?)  This gives an easy means for any berserker level 80 to get a healthy amount of defensive skill and not heavily rely on stance mastery to avoid becoming as easy to hit as a barn.</p><p>This is what I roll with now:</p><p>4-4-8 str 4-4-8-8-2 sta 4-8-5-8-2 int</p><p>Ever since TSO rolled around, I shifted a majority of my points to the int line, capping out int2 and int5 for the casting speed, recast, and recovery reductions.  People aren't kidding when they say int-5 is awesome:  You don't realize how much that extra fraction of a second means until you've got it.  Also, this nets you the title of slayer, which I think is the best of the bunch.</p><p>You probably note the 2 at the end of the sta line.  I think it's a very underrated ability, and while you might not notice it being big in a fight, that little extra endurance is more effective, in my opinion, than an extra 4-5 points of haste or the hate gain increase.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>i also have a (pretty much permanent) 1k mitigation debuff as a kerran so you have to take that into account when i disregard belly smash, i can see belly smash as a benefit but it doesn't always work when you need or want it to.</p>

[firewolf]

<p>I soloed from 65 to 78 questing and grinding in ROK and TSO zones using the following spec:</p><p>str448, wis44862, int 44682</p><p>Could use 1h+shield or DW taking down any mobs 3 levels above with 1 up arrow. Also has taken down heroic 2 up arrows 2 level below on one quest. Pretty much permanently in offensive stance.  Wisdom final ability alone is worth more to me than anything in the sta line at the moment. Tried sta line but just not as good at the moment when it comes to surviving tough encounter. After I can get my avoidance pass 50% in offensive stance only will I consider switching out of it. For raiders, wisdom line might be useless, but for the lesser geared zerker, it is a good line until your gear can offset the stances penalty.</p>

[Gisallo]

<p>To be honest currently I do not find myself using the Wisdom line, but I could well end up giving it a try if Aeralik does make it so that our offensive stance reduces the hate we can generate (as he stated he intends to do on the Combat forum).  If this becomes the case AND defensive stance still makes me miss the mob 50% of the time, I may give the wisdom line a shot so I can still contribute to dps while tanking.  If he has half a brain he will change defensive stance so that it at "offensive skill neutral" and maybe change the Wisdom end line to something else so its still worth getting, this way you won't have 90% of the Warriors out there having to respec AGAIN.</p>

[Elanjar]

<p>I'm bringing up a ranger just in case this stance change completely messes up tanking. I have a feeling this is going to be a make or break change for me.</p>

[Grimmly]

<p>I looked for this thread in Combat and didn't see it.  Is there anyway you could post a link for that discussion?.</p><p>Edit:  Found said thread....   <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=437332" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=437332</a></p>

[Gisallo]

<p><cite>Grimmly@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I looked for this thread in Combat and didn't see it.  Is there anyway you could post a link for that discussion?.</p><p>Edit:  Found said thread....   <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=437332" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=437332</a></p></blockquote><p>Yeah, as I have responded there.  In the raid setting I see this change as doable.  If however you are in instances with heroic people, the loss of dps could have a serious effect with how some of these instances almost require you bringing at least 3 classes that are not dps oriented.  If you reduce the dps we have available now, it could make some of these instances even harder than they already are.  I think this is an example of a dev who plays in a specific style and environment changing the rules to suit only that style and environment, without thought to the greater consequences.</p>