DEFILER TSO ISSUES [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

flowercivicsi

12-03-2008, 12:29 PM

Okay I know I am far from a happy healer this expansion to the point I am considering just quitting the game all together, but I also noticed that we have nothing on this forum that clearly details why we just feel like they don't understand out class in the least. Please discuss:<ul><li>Likes and dislikes of the TSO AA's</li><li>Likes and dislikes of the Shaman Shard Armor set stats and set bonuses</li><li>Likes and dislikes of the TSO Raid Armor set stats and set bonuses</li><li>Deity's</li></ul>I am going to work on my own write up and return, but we need to get the comments out in the open for these developer people... (That is if they even read these class forums) to see why they are totally missing the mark with our class.

Sedenten

12-03-2008, 03:25 PM

I'm typing this from work, so will start with my thoughts on the AA's and follow later with the other points.TSO AA'sGeneral: I feel that an entire AA tree is balanced when I have trouble deciding where I want to spend my points. Our EoF trees were perfect in this regard, as I debated which lines I wanted to go down for quite a while until the cap was raised to 140. I can take about 5 minutes looking over the TSO tree and tell you which AA's the majority of defilers will be dropping their points in to. This tells me that some AA's are significantly weaker than others.Deathward Upgrade - I'll be honest--this spell has been just an extra ward since it's inception. It was stated during beta that the purpose of this spell was to be an emergency ward. The current version really doesn't fit this description, except that the recast is longer than would be desired. The amount of extra warding between it's base (target at 100% health) and maximum warding (target at or close to 1% health) is not a big enough spread to fit this purpose. I like to compare this spell to Templar's Repent simply because Repent is so much more powerful even when the target is on death's door (i.e. the current ward amount of Repent is much, much more powerful than what Deathward hits a nearly dead target). On top of that, Repent also heals the target and has half the recast of Deathward. So for emergency spells, Repent is at least 200% more effective of a spell and still fits the role of a non-emergency heal very, very well. I was hoping this AA upgrade would help address the deficiencies of the spell, but sadly it has not.The 5 second duration, 10% mitigation (2% x 5 ranks) was tacked on with the "emergency" purpose in mind. The 15% (3% x 5 ranks) bonus ward amount was an afterthought towards the end of beta to help make the upgrade more desireable. I still feel this AA needs some work. If the 5 second duration is never changing, the mitigation needs to go up significantly (to 20-25%). I'd still much rather keep the current mitigation and have the duration be much longer or the mitigation be a straight up component of the ward itself (i.e. when the ward amount runs out or the duration ends, the entire effect expires). That way at least the spell would be mitigating all of the damage it's warding against. To help counter any issues with the duration being longer than intended, change Deathward so that it is ALWAYS used up before any other wards on the target (i.e. the order it is cast on the target would not matter). Also, it would be nice if the 15% upgrade amount fluctuated depending on the target's health (so was a 15% to base and 30% when the target is at the lowest threshold in health). That would help make the intended use of this spell more potent while having a worth upgrade.Abhorrent Seal Line Upgrade - Bleh. I do not see any defilers ever spending a single point in this upgrade. I'd much rather the upgrade add an entirely different debuff effect on top of what it already does. The description of this spell has been misleading since it was changed ages ago--it's not a "powerful" debuff. If this upgrade gave something unique over every other debuff in the game as a bonus, then defilers may give this AA some thought.Malis Line Upgrade - Another bleh. I'd rather the upgrade add extra ticks of damage (without increasing the duration) so that the damage occurs faster. This would up the potential damage significantly while preserving the value of the spell as a debuff.Kindred Restoration - I love the idea of this AA, and it's possibly one of the best ones shamans have been given. That is, once any bugs are worked out. I kind of wish this extended to our single target wards, but understand the mechanic is potent for the class.Warding Spirit - This one has been voiced several times in beta as well as on live, but the 15% bonus to non-damaging debuffs is just pointless for us. I'd rather have this replaced with a beneficial reuse bonus. Mystics get a 15% casting speed bonus on beneficials, so I would be fine with a 5% reuse bonus to beneficials on ours. For all I care keep the 15% casting speed bonus to non-damaging debuffs and give the same bonus to Mystics and make it so they get no casting penalties for being in healer stance and debuffing (both shaman classes are heavy debuffers), but we need another effect on there. The 15% bonus to all heals is huge, though, and completely in line with the focus of our class.Melee-based Shaman AA's - I wholeheartedly agree with someone else's posts elsewhere that the one melee based AA in the shaman tree should be switched with the Mystic class disease mastery AA. Why? Either way, mystics would get both AA's as a choice. Defilers are the caster based counterpart for the shaman class. Mystics are the melee based counterpart for the shaman class. It makes more sense for defilers to have caster based damage upgrades than melee based. It makes more sense to defilers if we get an AA that increases the potency of all our disease based spells than one that increases our melee prowess. If these two were simply toggled, both classes would be happy I think.Enormity Upgrade - I understand the logic behind this--Mystics get a hit point component added to their version (which previously was mainly high in STA) and we get a STA component to ours. Taking only that into consideration, this upgrade makes sense. Offensive Stance - Honestly I didn't look at the actual content of this stance too much as I do not see myself spending any points to get the stance. My primary role is as healer. If healing isn't rough, I'll toss some DPS into the mix but as it stands I'd rather drop 2 points into Litany of Combat and drop healer stance when I want those bonuses than spend 2 points for the offensive stance and dramatically affect my base healing ability. The only other case I can see every getting this AA is if I keep a full offensive build mirrored but I do not see that as a likely scenario in my case.

flowercivicsi

12-04-2008, 07:43 PM

PriestLitany of Combat - Grants additional spells which increase spell damage, increase melee damage or buffs the priest's pet. These spells will suspend while the priest is in their healing based stances. Not a bad idea here, and this is rather nice when you don't have to heal like crazy. The dog buff needs to be looked at a little more closely as it does not help really with damage in its current form. Ally Revivification - Improves the reuse speed of in combat resurrection spells by 12 seconds (per point) Most healing classes can boost this anyway within their EoF AA trees. Mystics have a whole line dedicated to making their rez spells better... WHY do we need another one??? Prayer of Healing - Improves the critical amount by 3%, Improves the heal amount by 2% (per point) Not too shabby I like this one.Protective Prayer - Improves the physical mitigation by 3% (per point) This is okay for all priests.Secular Protection - Improves the mitigation values by 5% (per point) This is okay for all priests. Seal of Faith - Increases Shield Effectiveness of caster by 2.0% (per point) This should not have been in the priest line as this is more for clerics that are utilizing the shield ally AA within their cleric tree. As a shaman I have no use for this ability, and this was clearly geared towards clerics. <hr />ShamanAncestral Curse - Improves the debuff amounts by 5% (per point, Curse and Haze lines only) I am not sure of the totals from the mystics line, but this is an not a good bonus for a defiler as even with this maxed with 5 points I would gain 4 points to the first part of this debuff, and 1 point to the other. 20% is just not enough for this tiny debuff we have. Tribal Frenzy - Improves the additional hit points and power by 3% (per point, Minor Fortune and Minor Auspice lines only) Not too shabby I like this oneSpiritual Storm - Improves the base damage by 4%, Improves the critical damage by 2% (per point, Fuliginous Sphere and Cold Flame lines only) Kindred Restoration - Adds a secondary heal effect on termination of the ward (Wards of Spirit line only) This is either not working as intended or it's severely underpowered. At this time spending points in this ability is a pure waste of AA's even though it reads as though it should rock!Prophetic Spirit - Improves the base and critical protection by 2% (per point, Spectral Ward line only) Not too shabby I like this oneEthereal Weaponry - Increases Weapon Damage Bonus of caster by 3.0, Caster will Double Attack on 4% of melee attacks (per point) Was this really intended for "both" shamans, or just mystics? You do realize one of us is melee oriented (Mystics), and the other is spell oriented (Defilers) Why did you make an AA ability in the shaman line geared to only one of the shamans? Final Ability - Another pet attack? There are a number of shamans that do not utilize the STR line of achievements, and for a defiler if we do not use the STR line there is no point in using the dog unless you are helping with a tricky pull. (Mystics have an AA within their Mystic tree to help their pet a little if they don't use STR) I would have liked to see something that would have been beneficial to the roll that both shamans play... Our healing abilities. (Not a debuff as they won't stack on a mob so that would not be beneficial to both classes) Ideas:<ol><li>Amount warded by emergency wards will also heal for the amount warded.</li><li>Add critical mitigation to wards Group/Single or both (I know this would have to be a small amount, but again it would be nice)</li></ol><hr />DefilerSpiritual Seal - Improves the attribute debuffs by 4% (per point, Loathsome Seal line only) Not too shabby I guess, but Mystics get a little more, and this debuff is weak sauce to be honest.Devout Endurance - Adds stamina as a bonus to the group buff (Vehement line only) Lame! STA does not provide anything for HP. I want raw Hit points not a STA...Hastened Poisoning - Increases the damage of each tick exponentially from a base 1% upgrade (per point, Malaise line only) Have you looked at our spells to see that adding a percentage to a low number is not that much of a bonus? I know I would like to have my dots hastened to do damage faster! Usually I can't get the full effect off of a dot simply because it takes too long for the damage to occur. Perhaps changing it to read: Hastens the tick of malaise by 0.2 seconds, and Increases the damage of each tick exponentially from a base 1% upgrade. Then we would get a little bit of hastened damage to go from 4 seconds to a 3 second tick. Pandemic - Improves the base and critical damage by 3%, Reduces the heal amount by 8% (per point, Maelstrom of Dismay line only, removes stifle and root with 5 points) This is still a worthless spend of 5 points for me. Reduces the heal amount by 40% and increase the damage of it by 15% with the removal of the stifle... I'm a healer last I checked... can we get some AA's that reflect the role please? I know I wanted to remove the stile, but not at the cost of 5 aa points, and not having an ability that will help me support my group better.Prophetic Protection - Adds a short duration damage reduction effect to Deathward. The damage reduction increases as you spend more points - This also adds 3% per a point to the amount of the ward... The average ward amount that I receive from Deathward at M1 is 2500 since I am not naive enough to believe this is a death prevention spell as even then you can get it to a whopping 3500 with a dirge and a coercer. So with this maxed out I get an additional 375HP to the ward and a 5 second damage reduction. /sigh I would extend the duration of the damage reduction to 10 sec, and the increase amount to 6% per a point to help make this a little more of a useful ability. (2500 average would go to 3500 to make it a wee bit more useful)Ancient Bulwark - Improves the casting time by 0.2 seconds, Improves the heal amount by 3% (per point, Accretion line only) We can improve the casting time by 1 second, and we will improve our heal amount by 3% per a point... They get 4% to heal amount, and critical heal amount by 2%. Give us a wee bit more please. If no critical heal component than match the heal bonus. Stance's Defiler:Warding Spirit - Increases the base amount of wards and heals by 15%, Reduces the damage of hostile spells by 15%, reduces the casting of non damaging debuffs by 15%, Increases the critical amount of wards and heals by 5%, Increases the casting time and the power costs of damaging spells by 15% - Just to clarify Defilers have an AA line within the defiler tree called Curseweaving that allows us to be able to use our debuffs already without this. The debuff cast speed is totally useless as most raiding defilers are specced for the curse weaving to ensure we can get our debuffs in quickly. We really and truly need the beneficial casting haste given to mystics, and this debuff bonus would help mystics more than defilers.Also seeing that our mystic does 7k to my 2.4k DPS on an easy trash mob, I would have to ask why do defilers get a larger damage penalty than mystics when we can't do as much as them to begin with?Spiritual Ally - Increases the casting time of beneficial spells by 15%, Improves the damage of spells and CA's by 10%, Reduces defilers heal and ward amounts by 10%, Improves the critical damage of hostile spells and combat arts by 5%, and Apply's Spiritual Ally to dog - On successful melee attack has a 25% chance to cast Sprit claws on target (inflicts 395 - 592 damage) Hasten our DoT's PLS<hr />MysticAncient Demise - Increases the debuff amounts by 5% (per point, Cry of the Ancients line only) Why did they get 5% and we got 4%? Infusion of Spirit - Adds an additional effect which adds a hit point bonus to the buff (Spirit of the Bull line only) This would have been better for our buff too!Prophetic Ailment - Increases the base and critical damage of disease based spells by 2% (per point) This should be where the Ethereal Weapon should be located since this is more of a bonus for Mystics to get these bonuses as most do not use spells. Spirit of the Ancients - Reduces the reuse time by 6 seconds, Applies Spirit of the Ancients to qualifying pets: Increases Max Health of target by 4%, Increases Mitigation of target vys all physical damage by 336 (per point, pet only)Ancient Ritual - Improves the base and critical heal amount by 2%, Reduces the casting time by 0.1 seconds (per point, Minor Ritual line only) WHAT!!! We get a crummy bonus to deathward... the joke of RoK, and they get more heal amount... Seriously do you hate defilers?Spiritual Salvation - Improves the critical amount by 2%, Improves the heal amount by 4% (per point, Breath of Spirits line only)Ritual Protection - Improves the casting time of beneficial spells by 15%, Increases the critical amount of wards and heals by 5%, Reduces the damage of hostile spells and CA's by 13.5%, Improves heals and wards by 10%, and increases the reuse speed of spells and combat arts by 10%. Can we trade the debuffs cast time for benefical cast time?Ravenous Protector - Increases the casting time of beneficial spells by 13.5%, Improves the damage of combat arts and spells by 10%, Reduces the Mystics wards and heals by 10%, Lowers the casting time of hostile spells and combat arts by 15%, Increases the critical damage of spells and combat arts by 5%, and applies Ravenous protector to the mystics pet - Increases the melee crit chance of the target by 20%. (Note: not sure if this applies to the mystic or to the pet.) <hr />GEARTSO Gear bonuses... the 2 peice is the same as the VP set, yet we have no clairfication if the effect from the TSO and VP sets would stack. (If they do +440 to bane then that's nice, if not then this is a wasted effect or the amount should be raised on the TSO set to give it that "upgraded" feeling) The 4 peice looks promising, but would require testing to see how it works. From the effects discription this looks pretty cool.The 6 peice is totally not worth the effort in my opinion. I would have liked to see perhaps an Aclairty X or XV for the final 6 peices since it has been mentioned it will be a long time before we get enough peices for the 6 peice to be complete so it would take a while to get to that point, but gives us one great reason to look foward to 6 peices. As for the stats of these new patterns they are lacking seriously as the crit is way lower than what was available on the VP sets, and +spell and heal is also VERY weak on the new items. <hr />PLEASE STOP GIVING OUT THINGS THAT MAKE OUR SUBCLASS AND CLASS UNIQUE TO OTHER CLASSES. You gave templar's a super ward in RoK with a large heal attached, and this expansion you take a defilers soul ward, copy pasted the code, and then only slightly modified it to a direct heal with a better health conversion and called it sacrificial heal. Last I checked defilers were the healers that utilized their health to heal their allies. The defilers that do have Soul Ward spent their time to get to that bottom line within our EOF trees to get that ability, and then to see it handed over to clerics... well that just ticked me off after the Repent in RoK. This was something that we thought would have remained unique. Do you plan to give us avoidance that we can pass to a tank? Group stoneskins? Reactives? No? It's like giving a dirge Traumatic Swipe, and remaning it to Melodic Swipe.<hr />To add to insult to injury the Mystics have a thread called Convience an MT Group - Go Mystic! thread were they are discussing how great they are in comparison, and how we should be replaced. How special, they are admiting they are overpowered! Fix Defilers in 2009!!!

Cragger

12-04-2008, 10:29 PM

I've been playing a Defiler since the day of launch. I went thru the T5 hell that was shamans and our non mitigation factoring wards that made us support healers and debuffers only. Once GU 13 fixed this I was encourage and enjoyed DoF, KoS raiding and playing the character until the total lack of beneficial effects for being a healer on raid gear drove me to switch to my Brigand in EoF.Ironically in EoF they finally added stuff that had effects for priests, in RoK I changed back to my Defiler for raiding because it what I truely wanted to play and I finally had desirable things to improve my character for all the time I put into raiding.Now in TSO I'm beginning falling back to feeling like the end of RoK again. No motivation because nothing I see out of instances is worth obtaining. All the overland quests are once again solo. (I so miss T5,6 Overland Heroic and people NEEDING support classes giving them a role instead of the slow grind of healing a mob to death.) DPS classes don't want to group to do these quests, they can move faster then having to make sure any partners are keeping up.Now, here it is a few weeks after TSO launch and I'm just logging in to raid once again. Alaocia is correct on many points in her view of the Defiler AAs in comparison to the other priests. So far in raids I've seen my output and capacity decrease compared to my fellow raid members. You gave away our Soul ward (And theirs is absorbed by our wards btw in groups. And templar's can just rebalance HP after using it so Hey their not left at 5% vulnerability.) And you gave it to them ON THE WAY to their subclass AA line. We had to invest 20 something points into gaining ours.Our heal stance debuff haste is a joke. It works for 4 abilities, our debuffs are paulty in comparison to other classes now. And if they where really worth maintaining in amid the heal spam Defilers just take curseweaving as Alaocia points out. Mystics get MUCH desired beneficial cast haste. But, I ask myself. "Why am I even bothering to type this?" because in Beta this was pointed out over and over by Defilers. And all we got was a basic "We don't care about your class, its issues, or your feedback."So I carry on, trying to enjoy raiding, support my friends and guild and have some semblance of fun. Even if I don't log in more then 4 times a week now for a few hours just to raid. Not even motivated to get AA cause being a veteran I long ago did all the underlevel quests, heritages, collections, etc for no AA. So I've 30 more points to get somehow grinding missions or some boring solo quest crap I guess.My guild is transmuting virtually all the non pattern drops from raids... its not an upgrade in any form.. why continue?... you gave shamans a pet attack for thier end line in TSO.... a pet attack... versus a Soul Heal with better conversion... *Sigh*

EvilKyo

12-05-2008, 01:39 PM

I agree with defilers having issues. Maybe one of the problems we face is that we have just dealt with it and asked por reasonable changes. Other classes have asked for faaar more and they have been given. So, i'm going to be harsh with this. I'm copying Ala's format because i'm lazy and it looks nice <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />:PriestLitany of Combat - Grants additional spells which increase spell damage, increase melee damage or buffs the priest's pet. These spells will suspend while the priest is in their healing based stances. Nice idea, poor implementation: i see the melee buffs for the combat priests and it's good but the others are really weak.Battle Prowess (5pt): 20 weapon damage bonus, 25% double attack, 15% combat art damage.Casting Expertise (5pt): 5% spell damage and crit amount, 15% cast and reuse.Sacred Follower (5pt): 30DPS, 15% to hit and some sta and str for the pet.Battle prowess is nice for melee priests but defilers don't have a viable melee build. Casting expertise can be useful for a fury with his nice nukes and so. But defilers work with tiny DOTS, the damage increase is negligible and the reuse not an issue bc the dots refresh before they expire. Sacred follower is laughable, the damage the pet output is so minimal that buffing it to 100DPS and 100% to hit would still be underpowered. Remove the pet ability and put something to help the soloing defiler, nobody is going to miss this spell.Ally Revivification - Improves the reuse speed of in combat resurrection spells by 12 seconds (per point). No comments.Prayer of Healing - Improves the critical amount by 3%, Improves the heal amount by 2% (per point). Improves healing = nice.Protective Prayer - Improves the physical mitigation by 3% (per point). Woot, a whole 140 mitigation at t8 with spell mastered, a must have!! /sarcasm off. Incredibly weak.Secular Protection - Improves the mitigation values by 5% (per point). Look above.Seal of Faith - Increases Shield Effectiveness of caster by 2.0% (per point). A must have if you have a combat build or you're a templar. Can help a bit while soloing but it's more oriented to melee healers that to the ones that cast spells. Funny thing is that we cast spells and don't have a root or interrupt prevention abilities, that deserves a rant on their own <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />:<hr />ShamanAncestral Curse - Improves the debuff amounts by 5% (per point, Curse and Haze lines only). Tiny improvement.Tribal Frenzy - Improves the additional hit points and power by 3% (per point, Minor Fortune and Minor Auspice lines only) I like this one, could be better but it's useable.Spiritual Storm - Improves the base damage by 4%, Improves the critical damage by 2% (per point, Fuliginous Sphere and Cold Flame lines only) Same as ever, percentual improvements helps us the least because we have a really low damage. Kindred Restoration - Adds a secondary heal effect on termination of the ward (Wards of Spirit line only) Haven't tested yet but the description looks promising, i hope it's bugged atm.Prophetic Spirit - Improves the base and critical protection by 2% (per point, Spectral Ward line only) Improves heal = nice.Ethereal Weaponry - Increases Weapon Damage Bonus of caster by 3.0, Caster will Double Attack on 4% of melee attacks (per point) Nice for a Mystic, this one coupled with battle prowess and the agi line could make for a nice underpar melee defiler.<hr />Defiler Spiritual Seal - Improves the attribute debuffs by 4% (per point, Loathsome Seal line only) Attribute debuffs are useless, so it is an upgrade of a useless debuff. Attribute debuffs have to be reworked to make them noticiable prior making an aa for them.Devout Endurance - Adds stamina as a bonus to the group buff (Vehement line only) Put raw hp or another effect, maybe +skill. Hastened Poisoning - Increases the damage of each tick exponentially from a base 1% upgrade (per point, Malaise line only) C'mon, you can't keep making the same errors every time. We have it in the EoF tree and the shaman tree. I haven't tried nor i'll do. If this one maxed can improve your dps more than 2% i'll be surprised.Pandemic - Improves the base and critical damage by 3%, Reduces the heal amount by 8% (per point, Maelstrom of Dismay line only, removes stifle and root with 5 points) This spell sucks period. Every point you spend in this line is a point wasted.Prophetic Protection - Adds a short duration damage reduction effect to Deathward. The damage reduction increases as you spend more points - This also adds 3% per a point to the amount of the ward... /rant on. Deathward is severely underpowered, it's the worst 80 spell a priest can get. Before devoting an aa line to it just FIX IT, then you can tinker it if you like /rant off. Same as pandemonium, we want achievements to upgrade our chars not to make useless or underpowered spells useable.Ancient Bulwark - Improves the casting time by 0.2 seconds, Improves the heal amount by 3% (per point, Accretion line only) We can improve the casting time by 1 second, and we will improve our heal amount by 3% per a point... Improves heaing = nice.Stance's Defiler:Warding Spirit - Increases the base amount of wards and heals by 15%, Reduces the damage of hostile spells by 15%, reduces the casting of non damaging debuffs by 15%, Increases the critical amount of wards and heals by 5%, Increases the casting time and the power costs of damaging spells by 15% - Has the same dev made this one and our EoF tree? Doubt it. Casting speed on debuffs is something we don't need. Casting speed and reuse on beneficials is what we need.Spiritual Ally - Increases the casting time of beneficial spells by 15%, Improves the damage of spells and CA's by 10%, Reduces defilers heal and ward amounts by 10%, Improves the critical damage of hostile spells and combat arts by 5%, and Apply's Spiritual Ally to dog - On successful melee attack has a 25% chance to cast Sprit claws on target (inflicts 395 - 592 damage) Increase casting time for the slowest healer, lol. Haven't tested it but i'm certain the dps increase would be too low. The penalty on cast speed is huge and the dps gain won't be great, that's not a trade off, that's a rip off.That's my opinion, i'm running out of time after the long rant, lol. Feel free to post about it, maybe we can make the defiler a better class <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

flowercivicsi

12-18-2008, 06:59 PM

Sticky Request Pls! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />Also other defilers pls mention your thoughts about TSO for defiler, and what area's you would like to see changes. I see the people that have posted thus far are seeing the same issues, but the more people that share their observations the better.

ChrissyFaey

12-19-2008, 02:08 PM

I agree to the opinions regarding our AA's above, particularly in response to our healing stance. It's unfortunate that there has been several page threads on this already in beta ... while others were getting responses, we have been ignored.I consider this a bug against shamans that needs fixing. It's unfortunately getting buried beneath Sation Cash before receiving attention... if it was going to receive attention regardless. ;/ <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=438198" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=438198</a>

flowercivicsi

01-05-2009, 03:40 PM

So with the flurry clerics recieved (inquisitors needed this so much love to them) however, templars are cranking 4k on fights??? Mystics can do 7k, Inquisitors 7k, Templars 4k, and I average 2-2.5k. I used to eat up our templar all the time for healer DPS, and now I can't even come close. (This may be also due to a 2 healer MT group with me being the only one that knows what a single target cure is) I wish that these melee abilities would have been inserted within the melee type healers class specific trees, and not shared the wealth with both.I'm ready to pull my hair out over 8k group wards being eaten up by Sacrifice. I have my cast time down to 3.5 on my group ward, but it has me sweating bullets to get the group back up in time before an AE hits. How come reactives and regens don't heal us when we soulward? There is no risk associated with their ability what so ever, and that's the part that drives me bonkers. /Rant Off

Rayche

01-05-2009, 07:17 PM

Yes, I find very little to be excited about for the Defiler tree.I'm looking moderately forward to the Pandemonium update, but with the amount of mana returned to groups and raidwide buffs from things like the Berzerker VP pants, I find myself underwhelmed with the reduction in effectiveness on Pandemonium in trade for the stifle removal. That doesn't seem worth spending AA's on.

Marytaten

01-25-2009, 08:25 PM

One poster posted this:"Kindred Restoration - Adds a secondary heal effect on termination of the ward (Wards of Spirit line only) This is either not working as intended or it's severely underpowered. At this time spending points in this ability is a pure waste of AA's even though it reads as though it should rock!"I agree that this line should rock, but it is way underpowered. I put points into it and I see the heal tick go off, but for as much aa points as it takes to become effective, 3 or 4 hundred hps aren't going to help a tank w/ 20k lol.. Peronsally I would give up the heal beneifit if I could reduce the cast time of the group ward... it just seems like it takes forever to go off.Other than that I would love to see a line that reduces cast time of certain spells, or even the reuse timer of some of them. I know that we have one for the emergency wards in the defiler tree, but with such other good spells we get, we might as well get something if they are going to give us the armor with those kinds of stats on it... come on give or take a bit!Just my 2cp.

flowercivicsi

01-26-2009, 12:19 PM

I'm thinging since they can't seem to get this right I would like to see this change to reduce the cast time of the group ward by .2 per a point, and make critical or the base amount more. I think both mystic and defiler would be happy, and it would be quite useful and well worth the 5 points.I agree with you it's a wash.

Estean1

02-01-2009, 04:16 AM

The damage shield bonus from our TSO greater shard armor is negatively impacted by our healing stance. Our stance is actually reducing damage that gear does and is not limited to spells we cast.

flowercivicsi

02-23-2009, 04:01 PM

After playing around... Defiler Line (Shadows)Spiritual Seal - Improves the attribute debuffs by 4% (per point, Loathsome Seal line only) - Still would not put 5 points into it.Devout Endurance - Adds stamina as a bonus to the group buff - I love STA for myself, but when you have a tank with 1200+ STA you know there is nothing additional that this buff can do really. I would very much like to see this still changes to straight hit points, and not a STA bonus. Hastened Poisoning - Increases the damage of each tick exponentially from a base 1% upgrade (per point, Malaise line only) This was actually quite fun, and you can very much see the difference in the amount of damage that is occuring on the ticks! I still yearn for the noxious damage buff the mystics have, or simply hastening the ticks of our dots... I can live with this though. Pandemic - Improves the base and critical damage by 3%, Reduces the heal amount by 8% (per point, Maelstrom of Dismay line only, removes stifle and root with 5 points) You know I hated this thing at first, but now that I have tried it... I actually like it. In heal stance it actually is a wonderful complement to the mythical clicky, and your helping your chanter with a wee bit of group power regen. When not in heal stance, and tearing trash up I still use it for the damage component, and the little bit of heal to ease the pain of choker damage. Prophetic Protection - Adds a short duration damage reduction effect to Deathward. The damage reduction increases as you spend more points - This also adds 3% per a point to the amount of the ward... I tried this one, but wow very weak return on investment for a 15% bonus with 5 points spent, and the damage reduction was a moot point as well since it's not that easy trying to time out deathward for heavy hits. Ancient Bulwark - Improves the casting time by 0.2 seconds, Improves the heal amount by 3% (per point, Accretion line only) I like it... can't complain too much about getting an a second shaved off of the cast time of this heal. Stance's Defiler:Warding Spirit - Increases the base amount of wards and heals by 15%, Reduces the damage of hostile spells by 15%, reduces the casting of non damaging debuffs by 15%, Increases the critical amount of wards and heals by 5%, Increases the casting time and the power costs of damaging spells by 15% - It does make a difference in the amount of wards/heals etc. I would still like to have casting speed, but meh I can deal with this it does help with heals.Spiritual Ally - Increases the casting time of beneficial spells by 15%, Improves the damage of spells and CA's by 10%, Reduces defilers heal and ward amounts by 10%, Improves the critical damage of hostile spells and combat arts by 5%, and Apply's Spiritual Ally to dog - On successful melee attack has a 25% chance to cast Sprit claws on target (inflicts 395 - 592 damage) I would still prefer to have something proc from my damage that has nothing to do with the dog. Perhaps a chance to proc a self buff that would increase the defilers spell crit by 15, and and a spell crit bonus of 5 for 15-20 seconds? The other would be to hasten the effects of all DOT's by 1 second as that would own! If they are stuck with the idea of the dog... how about giving the pooch flurry on proc!!!We should really all still be sharing information and feelings about the TSO lines. I know a number of us are burning thru respecs and searching thru parses to see what is netting them the best parses, and most room for success. <hr />Overloaded heals has been on my mind for a while as it went from being a wonderful thing to being totally useless... even after they changed it to trigger on wards/reactives. These items regardless are just not providing that great of a return atm. I understand why they were nerfed from RoK to TSO so I am not arguing with that. (Healing someone across the zone is a bugged effect) However; I hope if a developer is reading this that there is alot of room for improvement on these types of group effects so they are more beneficial. I see they were looking to make all procced effects no longer look at +heal and other factors. (+heal being our big concern) With the fact that the OLH effects are already so underwelming I would hope that they would consider popping the number of times the effect procs back to pre-rok if they intend to proceed with the proc not looking at +heal. Remember this is only about those "group" effects the singles work just fine so I personally am not worried about those. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />

bobobobobo

02-24-2009, 12:33 PM

I would like to see some aa lines in tso geared to aoe immunity and uninteruptability. I have played a defiler on two servers since I first joined the game and I do enjoy the class because it is so difficult to play. Most of the benefits that a defiler recieves is gear based in my opinion. Defilers even with high focus are interupted quite easily. Gear with casting and reuse speed seem to be my best friend. Some of the tso AA enhancements are nice however I still feel like the Defiler is the black sheep class that is always an afterthought. Please give us some real aa benefits like uninteruptability, stoneskin, Group Aoe Immunity and some Big heal increase so we can meet wardens somewhere arounf 5-7k heal parse. Our debuffs have really become quite useless at this tier as well as our pets and the AA lines for them Just seem like a waste of AA.As one of the other defilers stated he rolled a brigand and so did I because you need another toon to get away from the high stress of playing such an underpowered class from time to time. I honestly think the Shaman really need to be looked at a lot more and given some love and attention. We feel lucky that you fixed Kindred restoration however it still only accounts for 1% of my heal Parse. Please just give us one thing thats good and easy like all other classes have.

Ceolus

02-25-2009, 12:17 AM

<cite>bobobobobo wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to see some aa lines in tso geared to aoe immunity and uninteruptability.....Please give us some real aa benefits like uninteruptability, stoneskin, Group Aoe Immunity</blockquote>I thinking giving us something like stoneskin might be a bit far, but something similar might be nice. I don't think the Defiler class needs a whole lot of change.I agree with some sort of immunities (at least self immunities) and uninteruptability, especially because I play on a PvP server. Other healer classes get all sorts of tricks for PvP (Templar steadfast and sanctuary, Warden's gale). As a Defiler, in group vs group situations, I feel like if someone tries to attack me and my tank can't peel him off, there's not a whole lot I can do. Can't even bother trying to ward or heal because I'm just going to get interrupted up the bum. So frustrating when your spell is ALMOST there, then resets due to interrupts, ALMOST there, resets again, SO CLOSE, bam dead. Uninteruptability (*coughsteadfast*) is crazy good. With that and sanctuary, Templars can just keep casting and casting.

Vonchicken

07-22-2009, 04:23 PM

I would like to see a proc on the 5 set of end tso that when casting a healing spell, has a chance to cure group members AE, with a 3 times per minute chance, or atleast change the name of the ward so taht it stacks with the WoE chest piece. Bcause right now they are the same thing. Also, with the Tso aa, they should have made it so the dog pet would gain hate or something, from the mob. I would use the str tree for Defiler, if the [Removed for Content] dog would not die, and then lose all its bufs, just from the mob aggroing on to it or something, because even with AoE ammunity and the health increase, it still some how manages to die within 45sec of aa fight. Then you have to deal with not having it for the rest of the fight, because it takes so long to cast.

Vonchicken

07-22-2009, 04:25 PM

oh yeah, as for the deathward. The damage reduction should last till the ward is either eaten up or for the full 30sec.

flowercivicsi

07-22-2009, 05:34 PM

I have some questions/suggestions to help you with the poochie dying<ul><li>Make sure to ONLY send the dog in "after" the tank has pulled the mob to the location he intends to tank it at? </li><li>Always aim for the butt! (I know that sounds like I am joking, but being serious)</li><li>Remember he is AE immune ONLY. He is not immune to frontals or damage shields. Ward up and heal thru it. </li><li>On mobs that like to toss control effects be wary as you may need to time your dogs in and out time. (If the tank is charmed... naturally the mob is going to hit the first thing near him. If your dog is chewing on his ankles when he charms a tank, guess who's next?) Tyrannus gives me issues with this when he starts porting the tank all over the place. </li><li>Some mobs the AE immunity is not working. When you encounter a zone/mob that the AE immumity from the STR line is not working /bug & /feedback.</li></ul>I'm sorry the 5 peice that is on there is better than the 2 or 4 peice we have so I understand you have the T3 peice of it, but if you are up to 5 peices currently AS is not that hard. You will have a new chest soon enough that will be better than that WoE one. Perhaps they should change the T3 chest peice to be something else, but not the 5 peice bonus. (Unless they wanted to increase it, and change the name of it so they would stack... I would be okay with that too) <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />

Crazywack

08-06-2009, 04:34 PM

+1 to Alaocia's post. I rarely have issues with the dog dying, just got make sure you position it right and joust it when (rarely) necessary.Deathward could use some more loving (we did get a slight boost to the warded amount a while back) but the damage reduction (via AA's) could last a little longer, although I feel 30 seconds might be a bit overpowered, 10-15 secs might be better.The set piece ward types should be renamed, it isn't gamebreaking or overpowered