Hooray for templars

[Phaith]

<p>I last logged in to the forums on Friday.  Just logged in again and ours is one of only 2 classes to have no new posts.  This means templars are no longer broken like every other class <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>3 cheers for us</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Phaith@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I last logged in to the forums on Friday.  Just logged in again and ours is one of only 2 classes to have no new posts.  This means templars are no longer broken like every other class <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>3 cheers for us</p></blockquote><p>Naw...game is just dying. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[rtoub]

<p>Both wrong, everyone posts on the templar flames forums.  Based on Broker there is more activity.  Based on the number of people online the expansion has brought lots of people back.</p><p>And there are tons of bugs, I guess you are partly correct because there are no new templar specific bugs, just general bugs that effect Templars.</p><p>My guess is the lack of posts is because there are no Templars activily posting on the boards, and the few that were left stopped because they were the only ones posting.</p>

[Giliad]

<p>I am glad for TSO AA line giving us a defiler type heal.  Sacrifice is an awesome spell.  takes templar down 5% health and fully heals the target.  Great when tank takes spike damage after wards are off.  seems that templars healing stance will be a good idea as well.  Can finally get rid of the gear with Ben aclarity.  As a MTH this is the stance I will be in the majority of the time.  OTH I will primarily be in offensive stance.</p>

[Phaith]

<p>Ok, time out.</p><p>This was a light hearted post, a sort of joke.  Not the funniest I'll grant you, but there you go.  If you spend an hour or so reading the forums, all you read is doom a gloom.</p><p>I for one am having fun playing my temp and don't think the game is dying at all.  Pre WoW's subscription figures people would have thought that EQ2 had a healthy subscription base.  I think it still does.  11 million players is a blip that won't be repeated imho.  Relax and enjoy a superior game without kids cybering.</p>

[Kendricke]

<p><cite>Altir@Blackburrow wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My guess is the lack of posts is because there are no Templars activily posting on the boards, and the few that were left stopped because they were the only ones posting.</p></blockquote><p>Meh.  When there's something to post, I post.  I just personally see less issues with Templars these days than with other issues. </p><p>...and let's face it, I'm probably the last person to be accused of caring whether or not I'm the only one talking, eh?  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Antryg Mistrose]

<p>I'm going to update a gear post during the next week - I was holding off, as personally I ain't seen much, so it would be a trawl through databases.</p><p>Its hard to work out how much emphasis to put on block, (like the legendary shard jewelry set increasing shield effectiveness), and with a few kiteshields temporarily slipping though, which will be taken from our grubby hands in the next hotfix, I've saved myself some effort, by delaying <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[SpineDoc]

<p>Love my templar, but hasn't been much to post about.  We solo well, we heal awesomely, nothing major announced and no nerfs.</p><p>I would love to see some breakdown of the TSO AA's though as some of them seem very juicy.</p>

[rtoub]

<p>That is true, while there are bugs and issue with our class, we are a very effective class.  We solo ok, can solo heal most groups instances and still are the king of the MT group in raids.  The new AA line isn't great but there are a few very nice abilities there.  Sacrifice is increadable and doesn't seem to every actually take you down to %5 but heals for 15k at times.</p><p>I just miss the days of talking about the class, learning new things and ways to use abilities and spells. eq2 flames is full of petty bickering but at least they are discussing the class, ablilities and items.</p>

[Caethre]

<p><cite>Phaith@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I last logged in to the forums on Friday.  Just logged in again and ours is one of only 2 classes to have no new posts.  This means templars are no longer broken like every other class</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">OOC.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I know there is a tongue-in-cheek element to your post, but I will take the opportunity to comment on the general subject. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Yes, the Templar forum is quiet. There are some historical reasons for this, and in addition, it is because raiding and full-grouping templars are by and large happy.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">My perspective as a mainly small-grouping (and soloing) Templar has retained a less positive perspective, but things are and have been <span style="text-decoration: underline;">much</span> better than they were in the dark days post-GU13 pre-KOS era (</span><span style="color: #ff6600;">when the class was pretty much broken for my playstyle, at least in the opinion of many of us *in that playstyle* at the time).</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Looking at things right now, from a personal perspective, Felishanna has </span><span style="color: #ff6600;">153 APs, and has recently re-specced to spend 30 points in the TSO abilities, sacrificing some of the more useless (to me) Templar APs. This includes every +DPS ability she could get from the first three rows, including five ranks each of the Blessed Yaulp, five ranks of the damage buff (I forget its name) and five ranks of the flurry skill. The sum of this with her previous setup is 100% melee crit, 95% double attack, 68% melee haste and +50 DPS rating, which is pretty nice.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The summary of all this, is when hunting in Scion of Ice, her DPS contribution is reasonable. Just about. That is: reasonable by my own standard of judgement - your mileage may vary.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">For a small group Templar, the perspective of what is important is very different indeed from that of a raiding/full-grouping Templar. Healing is taken for granted, since we have far more than we actually need in such groups, as are defensive buffs. The limiting factor for Templars in such a playstyle, the thing factor that affects what we can achieve and how quickly we can achieve it, remains as it ever was - DPS, DPS, DPS. Hence the chosen focus of a character like mine.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Her DPS will improve slightly more when </span><span style="color: #ff6600;">she earns enough APs to get the Light Strike and Offensive Stance on the TSO bottom row as well, which will of course be the first things she chooses from that row.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">She has now got a full set of the Tier 1 void shard armour (the shoulders she has now just got at Tier 2), but apart from the shoulders, it's all in Appearance slots! The reason for this is simple - all the +heal, +mit, +hp, +power, +healcrit, +WIS, etc in the world, do not help with DPS. The old Nem Anhk armour set, with its 33% spell haste, cannot be beaten, so she keeps it equipped in 6 slots out of 7. Sad I know, but there is just not enough spell haste on the new armour for her. The only time she un-equips the Nem Ankh is if she is healing in a full group, but that is not often lately. </span><span style="color: #ff6600;">That said, when she gets five pieces of Tier2, I suppose I will have to consider retiring the Nem Ankh. Maybe.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Obviously, raiding/fullgrouping clerics have no interest in that kind of build.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Even so, nothing has changed in another regard. My Fury, Annaelisa, is still my optimum choice for small group settings. She still wins over my Templar </span><span style="color: #ff6600;">for just about every small group setting that I choose to play in, for amount of progress made per unit time invested. This is due primarily to her higher overall DPS and her greater utility across the board. Therefore .... I post less and play the Fury more. That's just how the cookie crumbles for me. This is also of course why amongst <em>casual-style</em> players, druids are everywhere.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I certainly haven't given up on the Templar, and almost certainly never will - she can still be fun. But really, it is only through stubborness and a love for the character itself (and her tradeskilling, but that's a different subject), not through any solid logic, and though I certainly do not believe the Templar class to be in a bad state, in my opinion it still remains a little underpowered for small group and solo play compared to, for example, my Fury. Some will say "no-one ever said they would be balanced for your playstyle, deal with it!", but my response is the same as it ever was "maybe no-one ever did promise they would be balanced, but that doesn't stop me asking for them to be, and asking again and again and again!" <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Some things do not change.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">But hey, raiding templars are happy, so you are correct, the forum is quiet.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Edit: improved grammar, sneaking on a post whilst at work isn't conducive to writing semi-readable English!</span></p>

[Kendricke]

<p><cite>Felishanna@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">But hey, raiding templars are happy, so you are correct, the forum is quiet.</span></p></blockquote><p>Even now, I still receive PM's from time to time asking for advice on soloing as a Templar.  I'm sure I'm not the only Templar receiving such posts. </p><p>What I tell most players who ask whether or not we're capable of soloing is the same thing I always say:  We may not be the fastest soloing classes out there, but we're far from the slowest.  We're actually one of the stronger priest classes for soloing, and I'd argue we're absolutely THE strongest outright healer class. Between our buffs and our heals, we're damned hard to kill in most situations.  With the right tactics and achievements, we're capable of clearing through most named we come across - both solo and even some heroic rated. </p><p>Do we push the same DPS as Furies?  Absolutely not.  However, that's not really the point of playing a Templar in the first place, is it?  Does anyone really expect that to be the case? </p><p>That said, there's certainly enough Templars out there who solo - myself as well - who aren't speaking up on these forums regarding any unhappiness regarding our ability to solo.  It's not just raiding Templars who are quiet...it's all Templars. </p>

[Caethre]

<p><cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do we push the same DPS as Furies?  Absolutely not.  However, that's not really the point of playing a Templar in the first place, is it?  Does anyone really expect that to be the case? </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">OOC.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">In a word: Yes.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I may love my Templar in some regards, but when it comes to actually hunting in solo, duo or trio settings, playing the Fury is just so much more enjoyable and fun. At least for soloing, although the fact that it is much slower with the Templar than the Fury, the only person wasting time is myself. However, in duos, the constant feeling that I need to apologise to my groupmate for our relatively slow progress through whatever we are doing, sucks enjoyment out of the experience it for me. Every time I swap to the Fury, the inevitable observations about how much faster the duo (or trio) goes, how much more we achieve in the same time, the comparison is really sharp when it is something we are trying to get both characters through, one after the other, with the same partner or trio.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">The "feeling like a charity case" scenario is not as pronounced as it was, but it still exists.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">So to answer your question, yes. I do expect they should be able to push the same DPS. They don't, of course, and it is not and never has been SOE's "vision". But were I the lead developer, when GU13 happened and clerics lost their large lead in Healing Power over druids, I would have instantly also removed the large lead druids have over clerics in DPS, and I would have ensured that that was as-close-to-balanced as possible, across all playstyles from raiding to soloing, in both healing and DPS alike. It is at least much closer to that today than it was at GU13, of course, and partly down to wall of feedback of myself and many many other Templar players (not including yourself, naturally).</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">We never agreed on that point all those years ago, and we still will not now. But just as you are not suddenly going to have a road-to-Damascus conversion on the issue, neither am I.</span></p><p><cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's not just raiding Templars who are quiet...it's <em><strong>all</strong></em> Templars. </p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Clearly I never spoke *chuckle*.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">But I shall return to my (relative to yesteryear) silence once more, for a while.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Ciao. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p>

[Enoa]

<p>You are right.   TEmplars should do better dps than furies while still having the best defensive buffs, only priest with stoneskin, overpowered avoidance pass, best single target ward, and immunity to cc affects. </p><p>You should betray inquisy imo.. not that you'll do all that more dps but maybe someone will listen to you're complaints. </p>

[Antryg Mistrose]

<p>I don't agree with Caethre's post - no real suprise, I have a paladin, and I think thats what she should have rolled.</p><p>Templar DPS isn't far below furies, and as healing power is above, there is nothing preventing a templar from using a more dps focussed build in small groups / soloing.</p><p>I can't approach the dps of a fury in the mage group as a templar in the MT group.  But then again neither can the coercer in the MT group approach the dps of illusionists in the mage group.  Thats all about buffs and AA spec.</p><p>There, see, I admit it I raid.  However I also solo and group, and despite not ever focussing on dps gear, its hard to avoid picking up the odd bit now and then, so with a few different equipping macros and an AA respec mirror - voila - no problems solo.</p><p>Sure, no root means there is a lower limit on the heroics I can solo than a druid - not exactly game breaking.  I too often see groups looking for "plate or chain priest" where as a templar, both with raid gear and without I've never had much problem with solo healing almost all zones.  Something I don't see when playing my other chars and grouped with other types of priest.</p>