The Shadowed Men, Rodcet Nife, Bertoxxulous, etc. [Archive]

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Apocroph

11-30-2008, 02:23 AM

I'll preface this by saying that what I've written down here is from before the launch of The Shadow Odyssey, and as such, not all of this may be "correct" anymore. Also note that I've pulled from basically every source of information we have on these topics, EQOA included. I'm not interested in the semantics of why EQOA can't be considered canon, because frankly, there are references to it in EQ2 now, so please keep such comments to yourself. The purpose of this is to consider all sources, and to try to piece together what is really going on here.Keep in mind that there's a fair amount of speculation and hypothesizing going on here. This is my thought process on what I've managed to find on the topics.Analysis of Lore Pertaining to the Shadowed Men, Rodcet Nife, and BertoxxulousIntroduction:"Is there disease here? Has the Xulous force reached this world?"This question Rodcet Nife poses to Alora Nimens in her story of his arrival on Norrath might just be our best bit of evidence as to the true identity of the Shadowed Men. He speaks of the Xulous as if they are invaders from another world, but we know of them from a story told five centuries ago...Regarding the Xulous:We know from the lore presented with Planes of Power that the Xulous are a race that Bertoxxulous destroyed, and likely took his name from. We know that they lived upon the continent that has been known as Tunaria and Antonica, and that they were dragon killers. We know that they were a people fascinated with death and decay, because they were among the first that Bertoxxulous made himself known to. We know that their hierarchy included both a king and a chancellor, until their last chancellor sacrificed their last king to Bertoxxulous, binding the Xulous to his service.What became of the Xulous, other than Ultor Szanvon and several of the Adan line, after the sacrificial ritual isn’t precisely known. We know from other sources that the remainder of the population was killed off by a terribly deadly plague that Bertoxxulous himself created. After the last of the Xulous were gone, Bertoxxulous summoned their great mausoleum Lxanvom into the Plane of Disease, where it is now known as the Crypt of Decay. It is a twisted, mocking visage of the Xulous that Bertoxxulous adopts when he visits the Crypt of Decay. What we don’t know is what god their spirits met upon their deaths.Regarding Rodcet Nife:Interestingly, the story Alora tells continues, revealing that Rodcet is pursuing this Xulous force. This would seem to affirm that some manner of contention had taken place on other worlds, not entirely unlike the story told in "Remembrances - Prime," found in the Obelisk of Lost Souls. Her story also provides us with a point of chronological reference: the building of the Temple of Life. As the Temple of Life had not yet been built in EQOA, we can place Alora’s encounters with the Prime Healer as some time after EQOA.This knowledge, however, begs the question, “How much time elapsed between the banishment of Anashti Sul and the ascension of Rodcet Nife to the pantheon?” We have evidence of Bertoxxulous’ existence during EQOA, but the fact that it is from EQOA itself makes it suspect.An interesting point of note in all this is the legend of Rodcet Nife's ascension. What information we have comes from EQOA, which immediately makes its veracity in our timeline vulnerable to the whims of the developers, but it does provide us with something to consider.Rodcet is said to have come from a people that inhabited the Dead Hills, a region of southwestern Antonica that hasn't appeared in Everquest since EQOA. His people are called the Jal'Raeth, and they are said to be immortals fascinated with death, because they cannot experience it themselves. Rodcet is a rebel in this society of necrophiles, choosing instead to spend his immortality healing and curing mortals. This is likely a major reason for his ascension to the post of Prime Healer after Anashti Sul is banished.Regarding the Jal’Raeth:The story of the Jal’Raeth draws a remarkable number of parallels to the story of the Xulous, and I personally find that the similiarities are more likely to be indicative of one society known by two names, rather than of two distinct socieities. Their story speaks of a race of intelligent humanoids that made their home in the southwestern corner of Antonica. They built a Castle/Tomb/City called Envar in the Dead Hills to house their experimentations with death and disease.Exploration of the information regarding the Dead Hills/Tomb City of Envar posted on EQOA 'Zam yields a walkthrough written for a quest that leads the player into and around the immediate area, as well as to the ruins of Takish'Hiz. Interesting that a trek to a destroyed city of the Sul’Dae would originate with the Jal'Raeth.Another item of interest found while researching the Dead Hills was that the aforementioned quest culminates in killing a Jal’Raeth Chancellor. This bit of information is insignificant and trifling on its own, but taken into consideration with the known Xulous hierarchy, it becomes another similarity between the civilizations. The fact that both societies had such a position is superfluous; it is the fact that the position carries the same name in each society that is the important bit.Regarding Nife‘s Physiology:Also on the subject of minutiae, Alora’s story provides us with a third important detail: Rodcet Nife has ears. Given that there is only one known “official” image of Rodcet Nife in existence, this is a rather important development. The presence of ears is another in a strong list of physical characteristics that Rodcet Nife has in common with the entities from the Void. The images of the Jal’Raeth that Kaitheel so graciously provided for us do not show ears, but neither does the drawing of Rodcet that has represented him for solidly 500 years of Norrathian history. This detail neither proves or disproves a link between Rodcet Nife and the Jal’Raeth, but that is of little importance, as the important connection is the one between him and the Xulous. Nife’s relation to the Jal’Raeth is on the good authority of draconic history.From lore appearing before the timelines split, we can take that the Xulous are responsible for the Bertoxxulous becoming a major player in the Norrathian pantheon. It is debated whether they were the ones to deify him, or if they were simply pawns in his advancement of his own cause, but it is with their civilization and its destruction that Bertoxxulous gains his notoriety.Speculation and other Curios:It is thought that Bertoxxulous takes his name from the people he destroyed on his rise to the pantheon, possibly as some manner of trophy. It is plausible, however, that the reverse is true. One might reach the conclusion that the Xulous are so known by virtue of their association with Bertoxxulous, rather than Bertoxxulous being named for the Xulous.Some have speculated that Bertoxxulous was “planned,” when considering the story of Ultor Szanvon and the sacrifice of the last King Adan. Taking into account new knowledge of the fallen goddess Anashti Sul, one might imagine that Bertoxxulous is an instrument of revenge against the other gods of the Norrathian pantheon. Was the patron deity of decay and undeath responsible for the festering evil that was deified by Szanvon’s ritual? Was his annihilation of the Xulous a calculated plan to amass an army of immensely powerful beings by which Anashti Sul could claim her vengeance?Update: We've recently gotten word from Cronyn that Anashti Sul harbors at least some animosity toward Bertoxxulous, but the reasoning is unknown. A couple of possibilities jump to mind: she may consider his realm of expertise to be "horning in" on her "action," or if she did have some role in his ascent, maybe she's irked that he achieved autonomy. The reasons for her opposition to Rodcet Nife are quite obvious, but her disdain for Bertoxxulous is a bit more mysterious.

Coniaric

12-01-2008, 04:30 PM

My understanding was that Bertoxxulous and Rodcet Nife are after Anashti's time as a Norrathian goddess. She was banished to the Void very early in history - Creation Age, I think it was said.Her animosity toward Rodcet is obvious - he is the current god of health & life instead of her.Bertoxxolous manifested after Anashti's banishment and it's possible that to her he isn't a true god.Either way, I believe the Anashti Sul deity quests will provide answers to some of those questions. Once she's unlocked on the servers.

Apocroph

12-01-2008, 07:43 PM

Yes, Bertoxxulous and Rodcet did not ascend to the Pantheon until after Anashti.I've seen frustratingly few answers to these questions from expansion content, even in beta. It's almost like nothing matters but their relation to the Ethernauts, which is majorly disappointing.Anyway, the Anashti and Bertoxx bit is speculation on my part. I wouldn't be surprised if she had a hand in his rise to power, as it did play out quite favorably for her. All I know concretly is that Cronyn said Anashti isn't fond of him. I think if she had set the stage for him, and he turned her back on her, she might have some reason to be upset...But we'll see, hopefully.

FreaklyCreak

12-03-2008, 05:36 AM

If they are the same race, worshipping two different gods in full effect. Then it reminds me of the qulleithulians. Whom seem to be sneaking into the plot again via void shard merchants...is this just something random a developer game up with or are the qulleithulians hordeing the void shards in order to create/close/etc do something massive?

Ragnaphore

12-03-2008, 06:33 AM

(...) a quest that leads the player into and around the immediate area, as well as to the ruins of Takish'Hiz. Interesting that a trek to a destroyed city of the Sul’Dae would originate with the Jal'Raeth.Takish'Hiz was not a Sul'Dae city.Update: We've recently gotten word from Cronyn that Anashti Sul harbors at least some animosity toward Bertoxxulous, but the reasoning is unknown. A couple of possibilities jump to mind: she may consider his realm of expertise to be "horning in" on her "action," or if she did have some role in his ascent, maybe she's irked that he achieved autonomy. The reasons for her opposition to Rodcet Nife are quite obvious, but her disdain for Bertoxxulous is a bit more mysterious.Well, she was the Prime Healer, no wonder she dislikes a god of disease. From her point of view, her actions were "good" and her banishment was "evil".

Meirril

12-03-2008, 06:45 AM

It is an interesting read. A few thoughts:Lets pertend that banishing Anashti to the void really did sever her ties to Norrath as everybody claims. I can see how she might gain dominion over other being in the void. How does she manipulate events to not only not help her cause, but to cause another diety to be given birth to basically suplant her?In her pre-banished state she woud of been not only the Prime Healer, but the defacto ruler of all things undead. Now she returns to find a new Prime Healer. Even worse, her creation (undeath) has been twisted even further by Bertoxxulous to spread disease and death. The ex-prime healer probably isn't too fond of disease still, and using her creation to spread it and make it worse probably doesn't sit well with her.If she was involved in Bertoxxulous' rising, it was probably an attempt to free her from the void. Most likely, she had nothing to do with the event. I believe all of her actions have been through the shadowmen who apparently are a banished race that existed in EQOA but were not brought over to EQ1 or EQ2 until now.p.s. still finding it odd that the invisible shadow men of EQ1 are very visible in EQ2, have 4 arms, and don't use weapons like they always did in EQ1. And now...they have floating rocks and still no weapons.

Cusashorn

12-03-2008, 09:27 AM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote>p.s. still finding it odd that the invisible shadow men of EQ1 are very visible in EQ2, have 4 arms, and don't use weapons like they always did in EQ1. And now...they have floating rocks and still no weapons.</blockquote>I don't think they're the same creatures. In some of the Obelisks you find invisible men carrying nothing but swords and shields, just like how they used to be.

Apocroph

12-03-2008, 11:35 AM

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote>It is an interesting read. A few thoughts:Lets pertend that banishing Anashti to the void really did sever her ties to Norrath as everybody claims. I can see how she might gain dominion over other being in the void. How does she manipulate events to not only not help her cause, but to cause another diety to be given birth to basically suplant her?In her pre-banished state she woud of been not only the Prime Healer, but the defacto ruler of all things undead. Now she returns to find a new Prime Healer. Even worse, her creation (undeath) has been twisted even further by Bertoxxulous to spread disease and death. The ex-prime healer probably isn't too fond of disease still, and using her creation to spread it and make it worse probably doesn't sit well with her.If she was involved in Bertoxxulous' rising, it was probably an attempt to free her from the void. Most likely, she had nothing to do with the event. I believe all of her actions have been through the shadowmen who apparently are a banished race that existed in EQOA but were not brought over to EQ1 or EQ2 until now.p.s. still finding it odd that the invisible shadow men of EQ1 are very visible in EQ2, have 4 arms, and don't use weapons like they always did in EQ1. And now...they have floating rocks and still no weapons.</blockquote>Anashti still has a link to Norrath. Defeating the Varsoon event in Palace of Ferzhul severs it. Bertoxxulous made himself known to the Xulous before he was known to the world, so it's entirely possible that Anashti did the same thing. The Peacock Club is a perfect example of how far reaching her influence is, even from the Void.There are reasonable assumptions for why Anashti doesn't like Bertoxxulous. I was trying to explore possibilities other than the most obvious, because there have been bits about her that haven't been exactly what they seem.Making an escape from the Void is more or less what I was driving at. Continuing with the hypothetical: I think she's smart enough to know that trying to get another society to worship her directly so soon after her exile would have drawn the attention of the gods. So instead, she helps a puppet ascend and destroy a powerful race that would be of use to her in the Void. From there, her new army reaches many worlds through the Void, destroying and assimilating at will until they are ready to invade with Varsoon's help.And yeah, it's still kinda odd. I rationalize it to myself with the idea that their portals haven't been powerful enough to allow them to fully (and properly) manifest in our world until this new round of anchors was constructed. Who knows.Ragnaphore-Yeah, I didn't word that how I intended to. Takish'Hiz wasn't a Sul'Dae city like Ahket Aken, but it's not much of a reach to think that some of the population would've found their way over there. It's more the destination area that's of interest than the specific city. I doubt very much that it's coincidence that a Jal'Raeth quest would send you to that area of the world.

Apocroph

12-03-2008, 11:52 AM

<cite>Oakmiser@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>If they are the same race, worshipping two different gods in full effect. Then it reminds me of the qulleithulians. Whom seem to be sneaking into the plot again via void shard merchants...is this just something random a developer game up with or are the qulleithulians hordeing the void shards in order to create/close/etc do something massive?</blockquote>I wouldn't be surprised if their involvement with the Void shards was a result of their experimentation.As to the Xulous' duotheism idea:That's not really what I was driving at, but I can see how you might draw that conclusion. I didn't necessarily mean that they were knowingly worshipping two gods at once. What I was thinking in that scenario was that they were worshipping Bertoxxulous, and Anashti by extension, until Bertoxxulous wiped them out and they met Anashti in the Void.I think my speculation on Anashti's involvement in Bertoxxulous' ascent might be me making the story more exciting than it actually is/will be. If we count it out for a second, then it's more likely that Bertoxxulous simply slaughtered the Xulous wholesale, Anashti rescued them from total annihilation, and now they serve her.My thought process makes for a fun plot twist, but it could potentially introduce some continuity troubles down the line, particularly when we get back into the timeframe of EQOA. The way these story fragments are fitting together now is starting to look like there's going to have to be some adjustment somewhere; either by revising EQOA's start date to have been further back in time, or by ignoring what was said about where Rodcet came from and the correlations to indisputable Bertoxxulous lore.This part is especially frustrating, because the answer is entirely dependent upon the whims of development's opinion of EQOA at the time. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: They seem to have painted themselves into a corner with the similarities between the Xulous and the Jal'Raeth, and what Alora Niemens tells us about her encounter with Rodcet seems to nod in the direction they're going, but we're still at the mercy of the "but it happened in EQOA, so it's not canon" caveat.

Paragone

12-03-2008, 12:46 PM

Regarding Rodcet Nife:Interestingly, the story Alora tells continues, revealing that Rodcet is pursuing this Xulous force. This would seem to affirm that some manner of contention had taken place on other worlds, not entirely unlike the story told in "Remembrances - Prime," found in the Obelisk of Lost Souls. Her story also provides us with a point of chronological reference: the building of the Temple of Life. As the Temple of Life had not yet been built in EQOA, we can place Alora’s encounters with the Prime Healer as some time after EQOA.This knowledge, however, begs the question, “How much time elapsed between the banishment of Anashti Sul and the ascension of Rodcet Nife to the pantheon?” We have evidence of Bertoxxulous’ existence during EQOA, but the fact that it is from EQOA itself makes it suspect.An interesting point of note in all this is the legend of Rodcet Nife's ascension. What information we have comes from EQOA, which immediately makes its veracity in our timeline vulnerable to the whims of the developers, but it does provide us with something to consider.Rodcet is said to have come from a people that inhabited the Dead Hills, a region of southwestern Antonica that hasn't appeared in Everquest since EQOA. His people are called the Jal'Raeth, and they are said to be immortals fascinated with death, because they cannot experience it themselves. Rodcet is a rebel in this society of necrophiles, choosing instead to spend his immortality healing and curing mortals. This is likely a major reason for his ascension to the post of Prime Healer after Anashti Sul is banished.Rodcet Nife may not of had a temple in the EQOA time frame but he most certainly was a diety. In fact in game he appeared at the end of a quest for paladins in Qeynos. I forget all the details of it but best I can recall he appeared to give paladins an additional heal spell which was the quest reward. Something along these lines at least. I remember finishing the quest wondering who the heck that guy was. I think he had the same graphic as the Prophet of Envar.

Iagan the Swart

12-03-2008, 05:33 PM

<cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oakmiser@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>If they are the same race, worshipping two different gods in full effect. Then it reminds me of the qulleithulians. Whom seem to be sneaking into the plot again via void shard merchants...is this just something random a developer game up with or are the qulleithulians hordeing the void shards in order to create/close/etc do something massive?</blockquote>I wouldn't be surprised if their involvement with the Void shards was a result of their experimentation.As to the Xulous' duotheism idea:That's not really what I was driving at, but I can see how you might draw that conclusion. I didn't necessarily mean that they were knowingly worshipping two gods at once. What I was thinking in that scenario was that they were worshipping Bertoxxulous, and Anashti by extension, until Bertoxxulous wiped them out and they met Anashti in the Void.I think my speculation on Anashti's involvement in Bertoxxulous' ascent might be me making the story more exciting than it actually is/will be. If we count it out for a second, then it's more likely that Bertoxxulous simply slaughtered the Xulous wholesale, Anashti rescued them from total annihilation, and now they serve her.My thought process makes for a fun plot twist, but it could potentially introduce some continuity troubles down the line, particularly when we get back into the timeframe of EQOA. The way these story fragments are fitting together now is starting to look like there's going to have to be some adjustment somewhere; either by revising EQOA's start date to have been further back in time, or by ignoring what was said about where Rodcet came from and the correlations to indisputable Bertoxxulous lore.This part is especially frustrating, because the answer is entirely dependent upon the whims of development's opinion of EQOA at the time. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: They seem to have painted themselves into a corner with the similarities between the Xulous and the Jal'Raeth, and what Alora Niemens tells us about her encounter with Rodcet seems to nod in the direction they're going, but we're still at the mercy of the "but it happened in EQOA, so it's not canon" caveat.</blockquote>How did the Xulous end up in the void? I thought the story was that Bertoxulous killed them all with his plague. That is a different thing entirely then banishing them from existence. Remember that the void and the ethermere are different places.

Coniaric

12-03-2008, 06:06 PM

Few things I'm trying to think through:Amount of time passing, it's clear that the time passed differently in the Void than it does in Norrathian universe. Or at least both universes aren't deeply connected, just rather loosely. Prime example is the presence of the Ethernauts in the Void - they didn't know that over a thousand years had gone by and that they had been turned into legends in a matter of minutes.So, with her connection to Norrathian universe cut off, how does the time works for Anashti? Was her banishment merely few short decades to her, not millennia it was to us, and so it was still fresh in her mind?I'm not sure how the Shadowed Men, and Anashti by extention, perceive the difference of time passing between the Void and the Norrathian universe.Maybe the Shadowed Men don't care, maybe the worlds they took over are just means to their ends which are keeping their civilization from falling too far into the center of the Void. As well as taking the souls or essences of the populations they find to feed their machines and, I guess, as consumption for themselves.Anashti might think differently, though. But still the ascension of Rodcet Nife and the appearance of Bertoxxulous may appeared to her as events happening shortly after her banishment. When, in actual, a lot and lot of time had gone by before that.Another subject, the Ethernere and the Void are not same place. The Ethernere is where the souls of the dead go through to their afterlife. The Void is a dimension that exists outside the space and time of Norrathian universe. The stories of Varsoon and Everling, and the Ethernaut Kaltuk Ironstein, demonstrated this difference. Anyway, it appeared that the Obelisks are also a place of harvest and a pipeline back to the Void - not just a basic anchor.The problem lies in, I think, is the progression of TIME in the Norrathian universe. Don't take me wrong, I like the lore of this game, but sometime the inconsistences pop up here and there. It was okay in the terms of humans and other races with short lifespan - but it couldn't work that well with the races that can live much longer - namely the elves. I can't imagine this race doesn't have a presence of mind to keep detailed records of events of the past, including the Lost Age, yet the Lost Age was named thus by the great loss of history and information, and all of that. It was like it's magically erased from the collective memory or something.

Wilin

12-03-2008, 06:35 PM

<cite>Iagan the Swarthy wrote:</cite><blockquote>How did the Xulous end up in the void? I thought the story was that Bertoxulous killed them all with his plague. That is a different thing entirely then banishing them from existence. Remember that the void and the ethermere are different places.</blockquote>QFE <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Apocroph

12-03-2008, 09:58 PM

<cite>Paragone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rodcet Nife may not of had a temple in the EQOA time frame but he most certainly was a diety. In fact in game he appeared at the end of a quest for paladins in Qeynos. I forget all the details of it but best I can recall he appeared to give paladins an additional heal spell which was the quest reward. Something along these lines at least. I remember finishing the quest wondering who the heck that guy was. I think he had the same graphic as the Prophet of Envar.</blockquote>This may indicate some passage of time. I didn't specify, but I should've said that we can place Alora's encounter as sometime after the start of EQOA, not necessarily after EQOA entirely. Like I said, these are just my notes, and as I was writing them down for myself, I counted a lot of things as somewhat assumed in my head. Probably should've revised a bit before I posted.<cite>Iagan the Swarthy wrote:</cite><blockquote>How did the Xulous end up in the void? I thought the story was that Bertoxulous killed them all with his plague. That is a different thing entirely then banishing them from existence. Remember that the void and the ethermere are different places.</blockquote>The lore we have doesn't explicitly say, so I did a bit of inferring for my hypothesis. Here's a direct quote from the EQPlayers Fabled PoP lore stories:"Bertoxxulous took great pride in the fact that he had wiped out this civilization. He took his minions from the land and also summoned the entirety of the crypt to his home in the Plane of Disease. It is said that the form that Bertoxxulous favors when he visits the crypt is a twisted version of the long dead race he wiped out ages ago."Wiped out doesn't necessarily mean killed, and it doesn't necessarily mean banished from the primal plane. Maybe he banished them, maybe he killed them. Either way, Rodcet's identification of the other-worldly invaders as the "Xulous force" suggests pretty strongly that they ended up in the Void somehow.

Lodrelhai

12-05-2008, 06:18 AM

<cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote>"Bertoxxulous took great pride in the fact that he had wiped out this civilization. He took his minions from the land and also summoned the entirety of the crypt to his home in the Plane of Disease. It is said that the form that Bertoxxulous favors when he visits the crypt is a twisted version of the long dead race he wiped out ages ago."Wiped out doesn't necessarily mean killed, and it doesn't necessarily mean banished from the primal plane. Maybe he banished them, maybe he killed them. Either way, Rodcet's identification of the other-worldly invaders as the "Xulous force" suggests pretty strongly that they ended up in the Void somehow.</blockquote>Or that by the "Xulous force" Rodcet meant Bertoxxulous's minions which he took from the land after he destroyed the civilization - remember, in that account of his first appearance in Qeynos, Rodcet is trying to cure a disease, not stop a Void invasion. Just like he equipped the Seeress with a cure for the plague - it was her own gifts as a seer that prompted her to request the reagent which worked against the Void possessions. Rodcet only intended to equip her against Bertoxxulous's plague.Honestly, I'm really not sure where the idea that the Jal'Raeth and the Xulous are the same race comes in. Paragone mentioned that the Jal'Raeth were fascinated with death because they themselves were immortal, and Kuraan that they built a crypt/castle to house their experiments. The Xulous, by contrast, we know had crypts for their royal line, and their only apparent fascination with death was the ancestor consultation Ultor used as bait to draw the King into the crypt. These are hardly the signs of an immortal race (nor would I expect them to be performing death experiments on their royalty). More likely they were a mortal race who, like many, buried their dead with various levels of honor and ceremony depending on their rank in society. Also, it's generallly suspected that <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=199" target="_blank">Rememberances - Prime</a> is a record of the race of Rodcet's that was lost to disease (and they do consider the mutations to be a disease in that). But there's also <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=192" target="_blank">Rememberances - Berrox</a>, which is a record so similar to the rise of Bertoxxulous that it may well be the same story. If these stories are what they appear to be, and the Jal'Raeth are survivors of Rodcet's people, then the Jal'Raeth and the Xulous are definitely different races - from different worlds, no less.My thoughts on all this? If Anashti Sul was responsible for the rise of Bertoxxulous, I think it was inadvertent. More likely, Ultor used the mystery of the black obelisk as a convenient bait to bring King Adan to his doom. I also suspect that Bertoxxulous was blamed in error for the loss of Rodcet's people - if, indeed, they are the Jal'Raeth and/or the new Shadow Men. Even if the Plaguebringer were involved (and I still suspect that Dr. Oculus was either an agent of Bertie's or Bertie himself pre-godhood), it seems that Rodcet's people were more likely to have fallen not just to a disease, but to a two-pronged attack of disease and Void invasion. He just wasn't aware that there was another force involved.I got through most of the diety quest line in beta, and from that we learn that Anashti seems to consider both Rodcet and Bertoxxulous to be enemies. Rodcet because he's an upstart who is taking her place and her Plane (she still thinks of herself as the rightful Prime Healer) and Bertie because disease is the innate enemy to health. Oh yeah, and undeath is actually the ultimate gift of eternal life, not a screwup. If anyone can figure out how that works when classes that specialize in undeath (necromancers, shadowknights) also do disease-based damage, I'd love to hear it. I also note that considering Bertoxxulous to be an enemy didn't prevent her people from using Bertie's tools to kill the Seeress - maybe some sort of payback for him using her work to forward his own agenda with the Xulous?. There's also one quest in the diety line that makes me wonder if all of the Void forces are, in fact, working for Anashti Sul, but I suppose there'll be more on that once she's unlocked.

Apocroph

12-05-2008, 11:35 AM

<cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly, I'm really not sure where the idea that the Jal'Raeth and the Xulous are the same race comes in. Paragone mentioned that the Jal'Raeth were fascinated with death because they themselves were immortal, and Kuraan that they built a crypt/castle to house their experiments. The Xulous, by contrast, we know had crypts for their royal line, and their only apparent fascination with death was the ancestor consultation Ultor used as bait to draw the King into the crypt. These are hardly the signs of an immortal race (nor would I expect them to be performing death experiments on their royalty). More likely they were a mortal race who, like many, buried their dead with various levels of honor and ceremony depending on their rank in society. Also, it's generallly suspected that <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=199" target="_blank">Rememberances - Prime</a> is a record of the race of Rodcet's that was lost to disease (and they do consider the mutations to be a disease in that). But there's also <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=192" target="_blank">Rememberances - Berrox</a>, which is a record so similar to the rise of Bertoxxulous that it may well be the same story. If these stories are what they appear to be, and the Jal'Raeth are survivors of Rodcet's people, then the Jal'Raeth and the Xulous are definitely different races - from different worlds, no less.</blockquote>Do you mean to tell me you really believe that two incredibly similar civilizations lived in the same otherwise untouched, remote section of Antonica within a few hundred years of each other, building similar sprawlingly massive crypts?It's possible one of those races transplanted itself to Norrath, and if I had to guess as to which one it was, I'd say the Xulous. However, we have lore from before the timeline split that places the Xulous on Norrath when they met their end, and we have a draconic historian and an Everquest game placing the Jal'Raeth on Norrath, and nothing about their backstories suggests they didn't originate there. The interplanetary traveler bit doesn't come in until EQ2 when we find out the Shadowed Men are world hoppers.And let's remember that both of these races are known for their fascination with death and disease. The Xulous are particularly notorious for their experiments with plagues. It's entirely possible that the plague Rodcet arrived to cure was the one turning folks into Nightbloods, and that it originated with the Xulous.I stand by my suspicion that we have one race known by two names here, and I'm starting to suspect that that the Remembrances books aren't all necessarily talking about different worlds. I think some of them might be about different civilizations, or at the very least, what those different civilizations call their world. There's been discussion on the similiarity between "Berrox" and "Bertox" before, and don't think the "xulous" bit is just a coincidence.It's entirely possible that some of them do deal with other worlds, as we know Rodcet has been chasing the Xulous from at least one other place. Knowing how the Shadowed Men tend to bodysnatch when they infiltrate a world, it's perfectly likely that the forms they take on Norrath are different from the forms they take on other worlds, such as Prime, which sounds more than just a little bit like Earth.It's going to take one monster of a retcon to seperate the Xulous from the Jal'Raeth, because right now, the differences between them are about as compelling as the differences between the 49 cent hamburger and the 59 cent cheeseburger.

Apocroph

12-05-2008, 12:05 PM

Not directly related to the current trend of this discussion, but still related to the whole thing is:On the old <a href="http://www.green-council.com/images/screenshots/EQ1_WorldMap_0001.jpg" target="_blank">map of Norrath</a>, from the early days of EQlive, there is a large gray structure important enough to have made it onto the map. It's the far southwest corner of the region labeled "The Dead Hills." Assuming for a moment that the Jal'Raeth and Xulous are different races, there are two major possibilities for what this structure is: Castle Envar, or the obelisk mentioned in Remembrances - Berrox.This also assumes that they'd thought this far ahead at that point, but if the stories about the big book o' lore and the master timeline are true, they did.The landscape here is "broken," supporting what was written in The Necropolis of Lxanvom, Vol. II, and supporting that Lxanvom had been relocated to the Plane of Disease long enough before EQlive's timeline began to have had the area explored and mapped.I think we're gonna need a lore clean-up in aisle 4.

Lodrelhai

12-05-2008, 09:08 PM

<cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote>And let's remember that both of these races are known for their fascination with death and disease. The Xulous are particularly notorious for their experiments with plagues. It's entirely possible that the plague Rodcet arrived to cure was the one turning folks into Nightbloods, and that it originated with the Xulous.</blockquote>Forgive me if I'm not as up-to-date on my lore as I should be, but I've never seen anything that said the Xulous were experimenting with plagues. Yes, they revered their dead kings and used the carcasses of dragons to build with - ancestor worship is hardly plague raising, and the only difference between using dragon bone, sinew, and hide vs elk or bear is that the dragons are an intelligent race. The Plaguebringer arose within King's Rest because disease and decay festered there, as they might in any place where the bodies of the dead were being stored, especially if the Xulous did nothing to preserve the remains before entombing them. The plagues which ultimately ravaged the Xulous came with their undead kings, who arose when Ultor killed the last living king. And when they were utterly destroyed, Bertoxxulous called his undead army back to Lxnavon and transported the entire thing, lock stock and barrel, to the Plane of Disease. So they're not here anymore, and haven't been since before the modern races arose. The Jal'Raeth were on Norrath at least until the time of EQOA.As for two civilizations developing on the same piece of real estate, think about it. The things which would make one civilization grow in an area - ready sources of food and water, materials for building shelters, land suitable for agriculture - are still going to be there after they're gone unless they did something to ruin the land, which the Xulous did not. Which means another group coming in would also find it a suitable place to settle and grow. No one goes there now because, as we learn in <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=105" target="_blank">The Tale of Mal'Ahkt</a>, just walking into the Dead Hills is fatal (or at least, it was, and no one seems to have pushed their luck with it since).And for the other things - massive crypts and a Chancellor - these are hardly exclusive to any civilization. The Xulous built ONE such crypt that we know of, and a regal place of high honor in which to bury royalty is far from unique even to these two - or are you going to say that the Qeynosian humans are also related to the Xulous? 'Cause the I tell you, I think they've got more space dedicated to their dead than they do to their living - three levels of catacombs under the city, with extentions and additional crypts as far out as Windstalker Village. Chancellor, or an equivalent rank which can be translated as Chancellor, is likewise not uncommon; it exists in any civilization which has developed to the point of having an advisory or supervisory group who works for the rulers by overseeing the populace.I am intrigued by the idea that at least some of the Rememberances books are actually not records of different worlds, but records of things that happened on Norrath itself in the ages before the modern races arose. Certainly we've got a fair collection of ancient races already in the lore. I do consider it equally likely, however, that some of this may in fact be cultural contamination - stories which arose during an earlier Void infiltration attempt, found by adventurers much like we find them now or told by Void agents who had the bad luck of having possessed a bard or herald and been pressed to share stories. Of course, the cultural contamination could also be working the other way, with stories originally told on Norrath having been incorporated into Void records, much like the way the Greek gods and heroes got renamed and promoted as Roman dieties.

Meirril

12-05-2008, 10:06 PM

All of this makes me wonder if the Di'zok Chancellor has some plans for the Overking in the royal tombs? I mean, it apparently is a long standing tradition in Norrath to have the Chancellor excecute their King in a tomb to release a new diety, right?And I'm agreeing that the strongest indication that the two races are not the same is the royal tombs of the Xulous. If the Xulous was an immortal race they wouldn't have royal tombs. Royal labs maybe, but not tombs. Also there wouldn't be a "last member" of the royal line if there were immortal. Please remember that the Jal'Raeth we facinated with death because they couldn't die. The claim is strong enough to preclude murder or intentional harm. After all, if you could kill a Jal'Raeth via simple violence, then they should be afraid of death like everybody else. Not facinated by something that can't happen to them!And nobody is going to convince me that anything on Norrath is naive enough to not consider a violent end. Something would of tried to kill the Jal'Raeth. Even if that something was a simple as a sabertooth tiger.

Apocroph

12-07-2008, 05:46 PM

<cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Forgive me if I'm not as up-to-date on my lore as I should be, but I've never seen anything that said the Xulous were experimenting with plagues. Yes, they revered their dead kings and used the carcasses of dragons to build with - ancestor worship is hardly plague raising, and the only difference between using dragon bone, sinew, and hide vs elk or bear is that the dragons are an intelligent race. The Plaguebringer arose within King's Rest because disease and decay festered there, as they might in any place where the bodies of the dead were being stored, especially if the Xulous did nothing to preserve the remains before entombing them. The plagues which ultimately ravaged the Xulous came with their undead kings, who arose when Ultor killed the last living king. And when they were utterly destroyed, Bertoxxulous called his undead army back to Lxnavon and transported the entire thing, lock stock and barrel, to the Plane of Disease. So they're not here anymore, and haven't been since before the modern races arose. The Jal'Raeth were on Norrath at least until the time of EQOA.As for two civilizations developing on the same piece of real estate, think about it. The things which would make one civilization grow in an area - ready sources of food and water, materials for building shelters, land suitable for agriculture - are still going to be there after they're gone unless they did something to ruin the land, which the Xulous did not. Which means another group coming in would also find it a suitable place to settle and grow. No one goes there now because, as we learn in <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=105" target="_blank">The Tale of Mal'Ahkt</a>, just walking into the Dead Hills is fatal (or at least, it was, and no one seems to have pushed their luck with it since).And for the other things - massive crypts and a Chancellor - these are hardly exclusive to any civilization. The Xulous built ONE such crypt that we know of, and a regal place of high honor in which to bury royalty is far from unique even to these two - or are you going to say that the Qeynosian humans are also related to the Xulous? 'Cause the I tell you, I think they've got more space dedicated to their dead than they do to their living - three levels of catacombs under the city, with extentions and additional crypts as far out as Windstalker Village. Chancellor, or an equivalent rank which can be translated as Chancellor, is likewise not uncommon; it exists in any civilization which has developed to the point of having an advisory or supervisory group who works for the rulers by overseeing the populace.I am intrigued by the idea that at least some of the Rememberances books are actually not records of different worlds, but records of things that happened on Norrath itself in the ages before the modern races arose. Certainly we've got a fair collection of ancient races already in the lore. I do consider it equally likely, however, that some of this may in fact be cultural contamination - stories which arose during an earlier Void infiltration attempt, found by adventurers much like we find them now or told by Void agents who had the bad luck of having possessed a bard or herald and been pressed to share stories. Of course, the cultural contamination could also be working the other way, with stories originally told on Norrath having been incorporated into Void records, much like the way the Greek gods and heroes got renamed and promoted as Roman dieties.</blockquote>"At first he let only those within this ancient civilization who held the power of decay and waste dear to their hearts know of him. As these first priests of decay came to be one of their number was held above the others. His name was Ultor Szanvon the Putrid; he led the priests of decay in the spreading of their dark doctrine. Ultor was able to scheme and murder his way into the position of the chief advisor of the present king of this civilization. Once Ultor reached this position of power he tricked the king into coming into the crypt to visit the tombs of his ancestors. Within the crypt in the presence of Bertoxxulous' full might he performed a dark ritual sacrificing the king in the center of the crypt. Through this ritual he summoned twelve spirits of previous kings and bound them to his service. These creatures rampaged through the land causing death and destruction as they went. They were also carrying an extremely deadly plague. This plague spread like wildfire across the land wiping out the remnants of this ancient civilization."Note the bolded sections. That source doesn't come out and say it in so many words, but that plague came from somewhere. It could very easily be either divine inspiration or divine intervention, but there's nothing there to rule either one out definitively, so they're both fair game for circumstantial evidence.Two civilizations on the same plot of land makes sense, yes. Two remarkably similar, remarkably deviant societies building sprawling tomb complexes more akin to castles than burial chambers? Decidedly less likely.I never said that massive crypts and Chancellors make them the same race. If you go back and read my original post, I came right out and said they were trifling details on their own, but taken into consideration together, they're an interesting similarity.The Shadowed Men get more frustrating the more I think about them. There's so little to go on in the first place, and what few stories we do have seem almost careless in the ways that they support and contradict each other.

troodon

12-07-2008, 07:52 PM

<cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also, it's generallly suspected that <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=199" target="_blank">Rememberances - Prime</a> is a record of the race of Rodcet's that was lost to disease (and they do consider the mutations to be a disease in that). </blockquote>That story describes the denizens of Prime as having hair - Mr. Nife appears to be quite hairless.

Lodrelhai

12-07-2008, 08:03 PM

<cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Forgive me if I'm not as up-to-date on my lore as I should be, but I've never seen anything that said the Xulous were experimenting with plagues. Yes, they revered their dead kings and used the carcasses of dragons to build with - ancestor worship is hardly plague raising, and the only difference between using dragon bone, sinew, and hide vs elk or bear is that the dragons are an intelligent race. The Plaguebringer arose within King's Rest because disease and decay festered there, as they might in any place where the bodies of the dead were being stored, especially if the Xulous did nothing to preserve the remains before entombing them. The plagues which ultimately ravaged the Xulous came with their undead kings, who arose when Ultor killed the last living king. And when they were utterly destroyed, Bertoxxulous called his undead army back to Lxnavon and transported the entire thing, lock stock and barrel, to the Plane of Disease. So they're not here anymore, and haven't been since before the modern races arose. The Jal'Raeth were on Norrath at least until the time of EQOA.As for two civilizations developing on the same piece of real estate, think about it. The things which would make one civilization grow in an area - ready sources of food and water, materials for building shelters, land suitable for agriculture - are still going to be there after they're gone unless they did something to ruin the land, which the Xulous did not. Which means another group coming in would also find it a suitable place to settle and grow. No one goes there now because, as we learn in <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=book&bid=105" target="_blank">The Tale of Mal'Ahkt</a>, just walking into the Dead Hills is fatal (or at least, it was, and no one seems to have pushed their luck with it since).And for the other things - massive crypts and a Chancellor - these are hardly exclusive to any civilization. The Xulous built ONE such crypt that we know of, and a regal place of high honor in which to bury royalty is far from unique even to these two - or are you going to say that the Qeynosian humans are also related to the Xulous? 'Cause the I tell you, I think they've got more space dedicated to their dead than they do to their living - three levels of catacombs under the city, with extentions and additional crypts as far out as Windstalker Village. Chancellor, or an equivalent rank which can be translated as Chancellor, is likewise not uncommon; it exists in any civilization which has developed to the point of having an advisory or supervisory group who works for the rulers by overseeing the populace.I am intrigued by the idea that at least some of the Rememberances books are actually not records of different worlds, but records of things that happened on Norrath itself in the ages before the modern races arose. Certainly we've got a fair collection of ancient races already in the lore. I do consider it equally likely, however, that some of this may in fact be cultural contamination - stories which arose during an earlier Void infiltration attempt, found by adventurers much like we find them now or told by Void agents who had the bad luck of having possessed a bard or herald and been pressed to share stories. Of course, the cultural contamination could also be working the other way, with stories originally told on Norrath having been incorporated into Void records, much like the way the Greek gods and heroes got renamed and promoted as Roman dieties.</blockquote>"At first he let only those within this ancient civilization who held the power of decay and waste dear to their hearts know of him. As these first priests of decay came to be one of their number was held above the others. His name was Ultor Szanvon the Putrid; he led the priests of decay in the spreading of their dark doctrine. Ultor was able to scheme and murder his way into the position of the chief advisor of the present king of this civilization. Once Ultor reached this position of power he tricked the king into coming into the crypt to visit the tombs of his ancestors. Within the crypt in the presence of Bertoxxulous' full might he performed a dark ritual sacrificing the king in the center of the crypt. Through this ritual he summoned twelve spirits of previous kings and bound them to his service. These creatures rampaged through the land causing death and destruction as they went. They were also carrying an extremely deadly plague. This plague spread like wildfire across the land wiping out the remnants of this ancient civilization."Note the bolded sections. That source doesn't come out and say it in so many words, but that plague came from somewhere. It could very easily be either divine inspiration or divine intervention, but there's nothing there to rule either one out definitively, so they're both fair game for circumstantial evidence.Two civilizations on the same plot of land makes sense, yes. Two remarkably similar, remarkably deviant societies building sprawling tomb complexes more akin to castles than burial chambers? Decidedly less likely.I never said that massive crypts and Chancellors make them the same race. If you go back and read my original post, I came right out and said they were trifling details on their own, but taken into consideration together, they're an interesting similarity.The Shadowed Men get more frustrating the more I think about them. There's so little to go on in the first place, and what few stories we do have seem almost careless in the ways that they support and contradict each other.</blockquote>Bolded section noted - specifically, noting that only a few were allowed to know him. Which definitely indicates that death and decay were not widely practiced. If the race as a whole was doing it, Bertie wouldn't have had to take as his high priest a guy who had to murder and scheme his way to the position of trusted advisor. The trusted advisor, if not the king himself, would have been open to it.Honestly, Qeynos really does seem more of a similarity to this society than the Jal'Raeth. Extensive, labyrinth-like crypts in which their honored dead are entombed, a sect which considers disease and decay precious, who do not hold the power yet but plot and scheme and murder their way towards it... The Jal'Raeth, by contrast, have death as a major focal point for their society from all I've heard.One more thing - reading through the books on the Xulous again, I notice they say they were on Tunaria, but not WHERE on Tunaria. Tunaria was a big place. Which means they could have been anywhere, not necessarily the Dead Hills.

Rainmare

12-08-2008, 11:04 AM

<cite>Lodrelhai wrote:</cite><blockquote>I got through most of the diety quest line in beta, and from that we learn that Anashti seems to consider both Rodcet and Bertoxxulous to be enemies. Rodcet because he's an upstart who is taking her place and her Plane (she still thinks of herself as the rightful Prime Healer) and Bertie because disease is the innate enemy to health. Oh yeah, and undeath is actually the ultimate gift of eternal life, not a screwup. If anyone can figure out how that works when classes that specialize in undeath (necromancers, shadowknights) also do disease-based damage, I'd love to hear it. I also note that considering Bertoxxulous to be an enemy didn't prevent her people from using Bertie's tools to kill the Seeress - maybe some sort of payback for him using her work to forward his own agenda with the Xulous?. There's also one quest in the diety line that makes me wonder if all of the Void forces are, in fact, working for Anashti Sul, but I suppose there'll be more on that once she's unlocked.</blockquote>I can explain it fairly easy. Undeath in the manner of say...Vampirism, has nothing to do with disease as a weapon. Necromancers/Shadowknights would probably fall in the hate realm from her like Bertox as 'corrupting' her ideal. I'm more convinced with her ideaology, and the information we have on Mystmyr Manor, as well as Mayong's apparent knowledge of the Void, that Mayong's Vampirism is the result of Anashti's experiment with immortality that created undeath. which would also explain why he is unique even among vampires, and why an object specifically created to destroy them did little more then scar him.Not to mention this...the rebuilt Ewer. supposedly Anashti's 'holy grail' when rebuilt, and rebuilt not entirely correctly..resulted in what for Neriak? Vampires of the like/type of D'morte. transmuting the living into them...it coudl be the Godking didn't use the Ewer properly, which is why they became mummies.and they tell you that in the live event..it's a clever idea. the Void used Bert's tools on the seeress to frame the followers of Bert. if your two enemies are enemies...what better way to weaken them both by bringing animosity into full blown religious war? before the idea of 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' settles in among the pantheon. We know that een teh gods that hate eachother will sooner join together against a common foe the try to barter with said foe to defeat another member of the pantheon.

Lodrelhai

02-09-2009, 12:33 AM

Okay, I know it's been a while, but it seems we have in-game verification that the Jal'Raeth are not native to Norrath. One of the flirt options from the updated Erollisi Day "Love Lines" quest:You say to Priestess Alena the Chaste, "Was your mother Jal'Raeth? 'Cause honey, there's nothing else on Norrath like you!"Of course, this is Live Event lore, and it could just mean that nothing else on Norrath is quite like the Jal'Raeth, but I thought it was interesting.And belated responses to Rainy and troodon - good points both, thanks for pointing those out. Completely missed the hair reference on Prime. And if Anashti does consider Shadowknights and Necromancers as having corrupted her gift, she is really not going to be happy with the number of them who decide to worship her - which, I suspect, will be quite a few.

Cusashorn

02-09-2009, 12:41 AM

So...a cheesey pick-up line is official in-game confirmation now?Our in-game confirmation came from last Summer when we first learned of Rodcet Nife's return. A story that tells us of when they first came to Norrath.

Gisallo

02-09-2009, 12:46 AM

<cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Regarding Rodcet Nife:Interestingly, the story Alora tells continues, revealing that Rodcet is pursuing this Xulous force. This would seem to affirm that some manner of contention had taken place on other worlds, not entirely unlike the story told in "Remembrances - Prime," found in the Obelisk of Lost Souls. Her story also provides us with a point of chronological reference: the building of the Temple of Life. As the Temple of Life had not yet been built in EQOA, we can place Alora’s encounters with the Prime Healer as some time after EQOA.This knowledge, however, begs the question, “How much time elapsed between the banishment of Anashti Sul and the ascension of Rodcet Nife to the pantheon?” We have evidence of Bertoxxulous’ existence during EQOA, but the fact that it is from EQOA itself makes it suspect.An interesting point of note in all this is the legend of Rodcet Nife's ascension. What information we have comes from EQOA, which immediately makes its veracity in our timeline vulnerable to the whims of the developers, but it does provide us with something to consider.Rodcet is said to have come from a people that inhabited the Dead Hills, a region of southwestern Antonica that hasn't appeared in Everquest since EQOA. His people are called the Jal'Raeth, and they are said to be immortals fascinated with death, because they cannot experience it themselves. Rodcet is a rebel in this society of necrophiles, choosing instead to spend his immortality healing and curing mortals. This is likely a major reason for his ascension to the post of Prime Healer after Anashti Sul is banished.</blockquote>Okay I thought Nife was basically an Alien from another world. Hence The temple of life basically being a UFO hovering in the middle of Qeynos. I do recall something about his race somehow being related to the Night Bloods or something (a mutation of some sort) but now he is a Norrathian native?From Lorelibrary.comAn account of Rodcet Nife's first encounter on Norrath by someone who experienced it all was recently brought to the Athenaeum. As news of this Norrathian deity has become quite the topic during this time in their history, old stories of Rodcet Nife and his healing have been told by those who remember such events. We hope you, our patrons, enjoy this story told to us by one such person.Remembering Rodcet NifeI first saw the great healer as a young girl. I had the fortune of being there, that day, when he first came to us. I had bent down to pick up a bluebell that had grown alongside the walkway in North Qeynos, carefully extracting it as gently as I could so as not to destroy it. As I finally stood back up, I noticed not only that my mother had gone on without me, but that something peculiar was happening. Around me, people were frozen, gazes fixed on the sky. I craned my head upward, searching for what it was that they were all looking at. It was only later that I would realize I had dropped the bluebell I'd spent so long trying to preserve; when my eyes fixed on the focus of their curiosity, I had dropped it, forgetting it had even existed.Just above me, a perfectly circular object descended from the sky, spinning on its axis. Blue light streamed down from its bottom in a shaft, searching the course of its descent. It was capped in an iridescent dome and made sounds unlike any creature I'd ever seen. At first, that's what my child's mind thought it might be: a mockery of a flying beast, terrible in its extreme mutation. It came to rest some feet twenty feet above the ground, directly above my head, and when people appeared suddenly in that shaft of light below it, I thought maybe they were jumping out of its mouth. It was only later when I went inside that I realized it was some kind of craft, like a coach, but one that could fly.When the blue shaft vanished and the people came to full view, I found them to be neither human, nor elf, nor goblin, nor ogre, nor anything else I could name. One stood at the front of the group, nearest to me, and his eyes were deep green, pupil-less orbs, his skin a pale green, and hairless. He stepped forward, and the crowd inhaled sharply. He was only a hairsbreadth from me now and he leaned down so that he could peer in my eyes. I even remember that he smelled different, like nothing I could name, but it wasn't unpleasant -- no, I remember thinking it was a very fresh smell, like clean blankets. When he spoke, I couldn't understand what he said, and I merely stared up at him with a mixture of curiosity and terror. He seemed to wiggle something near his ear, and then when he spoke, I heard clearly:"Is there disease here? Has the Xulous force reached this world?"It was as if speaking broke the spell. Some people panicked, running from the sight, while others drew swords and nocked their arrows. Still others yelled that we should talk because he had come to save us, for as it happened disease had swept through a neighboring region and claimed lives with the unbiased carnage of a great fire. By then though, my mother found me and swept me up into her arms, holding me to her chest tightly and backing away. I watched the man as she went, and he watched me, the bottomless depth of his eyes unmoved. I lifted a hand and waved to him, and he smiled and waved back. Turning to the crowd, he said, "Please don't be afraid! I've brought medicine! I'm here to help you, not hurt you!" As my mother drew me further and further away, his words were drowned in the roar of the crowd, but I still remember his face, so many years later. A face I would later come to know as that of a god.And help he did. It took time but eventually they routed this force he was pursuing, the "Xulous", and healed those who were still alive. Those who were there say he performed great miracles, that he was able to bring people back from the very edge of death so that they walked and talked as healthy individuals once again. My mother would later boast about how we had been there, forgetting of course, that it was she who drew us away, and about how I was the first person he ever spoke to. In doing so, she maintained, he had bestowed on me his blessing of perfect health. This seemed plausible enough until a few years later I fell into a deep sickness, not the plague that had ravished us but an equally dangerous malady. It seemed I was done, but the great healer was to visit me for the second and final time.The plague had been overcome, and the god had been occupying himself spreading his wisdom to our people. He had already earned himself scores of followers, and they were building a temple in Qeynos where he had touched down. We had learned his name was Rodcet Nife, and people had begun to worship that name. As it happened, he returned to Qeynos just as it seemed I was going to finally lose my fight for life. When he came into my room, my vision was so blurry I could barely make out his face, but the smell was unmistakable. He leaned over and tipped a crystal vial into my mouth. I remembered that clearly -- the vial -- because later people would attest it had all been holy magic, but as I understand it, magic is an ethereal thing and this was very much tangible. I felt it roll down my throat; it was thick and unpleasant tasting, but instantly I began to grow better. It would be weeks before I had fully recovered, but that was the moment in which I stopped feeling myself slip away, and started feeling myself return.Stowing the vial back into a pouch at his side, a pouch that had become as legendary as its owner with its ability to produce whatever was needed for a given patient, he smoothed back my hair and said, "You should feel better soon," before leaving for the door. My mother followed him in tears, praising him and begging him to let her give him something in return. He only waved her away, and that made her cry all the harder.As I understand it, it was later that very day that Rodcet and his companions had vanished. In the newly anointed Temple of Life, his followers awaited his return and taught the world of the wisdom he had left them.I am a very old woman now, and have only ever heard rumors that Rodcet might have once again appeared on Norrath. Were it that I were a long-living elf and might actually live to see him again, but I am a human and my years are done now. I can only count as many as I have because of him, though, and I remember that every week's end with a small donation to the Temple of Life. He will return, I am sure of it, and when he does, Norrath will be a world free of the suffering of disease and decay.- Alora Nimens, resident of Qeynos*ooc* Thanks once again to SoE and their lore team for this little bit of insight into Norrath and its lore.What I like most about this story is that it begs the question "what makes the gods." This story almost infers that Nife is not a god because of divine right etc. but because the PEOPLE genuinely worshipped him and their faith made him a god. Perhaps the other Gods said "well he's one of us now whether we like it or not, we might as well teach him the secret handshake" <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Lodrelhai

02-09-2009, 01:42 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>So...a cheesey pick-up line is official in-game confirmation now?Our in-game confirmation came from last Summer when we first learned of Rodcet Nife's return. A story that tells us of when they first came to Norrath.</blockquote>The story tells us when HE first came to Norrath - it doesn't mention that his race was the called the Jal'Raeth. As far as I know, the only Jal'Raeth references prior to this whole speculation starting were the ones from EQOA who inhabitted the Dead Hills.And I did admit that Live Event lore was weak confirmation... I was just amused that it was actually referenced in-game. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" />

nathan1

03-16-2009, 07:33 AM

The night bloods are what became of prime and Rodcet Nife is from Prime.

LordPazuzu

03-17-2009, 04:24 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote>p.s. still finding it odd that the invisible shadow men of EQ1 are very visible in EQ2, have 4 arms, and don't use weapons like they always did in EQ1. And now...they have floating rocks and still no weapons.</blockquote>I don't think they're the same creatures. In some of the Obelisks you find invisible men carrying nothing but swords and shields, just like how they used to be.</blockquote>I remember a prerelease developer interview where one of the devs explained the difference in appearance in that the shadowed men's pressence on Norrath had strengthened to the point where they were able to visually manifest themselves, whereas before they were not powerful enough to do so. Shadowed Men have varying appearances depending on when and where you see them. Back in EQ1, they were invisible since they were just beginning to re-emerge as a presence on Norrath. In EQ2 where they'd had time to erect Obelisks and anchor themselves. their presence had become more stable and they manifest, on Norrath, as monstrous creatures emerging from swirling black vortexes. If you venture deep into the Void, you see them as they truly are, dark alien humanoids appearing like a darkly corrupted version of Rodcet Nife. Honestly, I think the invisible Shadowed Men in Blight were little more than a developers nod to nostalgia. All three incarnations in EQ2 drop the same Lore and Legend and Language pieces.

nathan1

03-18-2009, 06:47 PM

THe book, Remembrances- PRime, talks about growth sticking out of the forhead. The books also shows that those people are very centered on healing. I dont remember seeing any growth on those shadowed men's heads. BUt then again there could of been different manifestations of the people from prime.

LordPazuzu

03-19-2009, 12:21 AM

Post deleted.