Soko-what is a sick quest :( [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Nailoo

11-27-2008, 12:06 PM

Am I one of the few (saying few instead of only one because I've discussed this with guildies and they agree) that thinks it's sick and EQ/SOE were wrong by having a quest where you KILL KITTENS to prove how evil you are? I know you have the option to hide them instead but still, it bothers me. I know there are other rl animals in the game that you need to kill for quests but that's different than having them fenced in and waiting to be slaughtered. Plus it's kittens, which along with puppies have a closer connection to people than alot of other animals due to the whole sharing a home with them thing. I just think it's really screwed up to have a quest like that. They could've picked a million different things to do besides that to prove to a group of pirates that you're evil enough. I know it's only a game, but you also see in the news all the time about some stupid kids with worthless parents abusing animals. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> Not to mention the fact that when kids do something stupid like abuse animals at least half the time their parents want to try and blame it on some form of entertainment, rather it be tv or a online RPG. It's BS to blame games/tv but it happens and is just another reason that it was a stupid idea for a quest.Just my 2 cents...

Mirdo

11-27-2008, 12:53 PM

If you're going to say that, you might as well just condemn the rest of the game that encourages the slaughter of sentient beings, both fantastic and human.Take DoF as a quick example, you could slaughter humans from rival factions to earn tokens and ingratiate yourself with one of those factions. Sick eh?Wait, it's a game, I don't care because I am able to seperate fantasy and a form of entertainment containing some dark imagery and balck humour from real life.

moonspell666

11-27-2008, 01:02 PM

Well tiny cute kittens cant defend themself, isnt that the point.But it might be people out there that like killing cute stuff that cant defend themself.......We dont need stupid quest like that, i have np killing humans that fight back or other animals or monsters, but kittens, hmmm,I draw a line there.Ty for understanding................../Dark

Nailoo

11-27-2008, 01:03 PM

You're right, it is just a game, and if you read the post I clearly stated that. Guess you missed the point I was trying to make. Maybe re-read the bottom part of the post? This part..."I know it's only a game, but you also see in the news all the time about some stupid kids with worthless parents abusing animals. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> Not to mention the fact that when kids do something stupid like abuse animals at least half the time their parents want to try and blame it on some form of entertainment, rather it be tv or a online RPG. It's BS to blame games/tv but it happens and is just another reason that it was a stupid idea for a quest.Just my 2 cents..."

Mirdo

11-27-2008, 01:11 PM

I got the point. You personally think the quest is objectionable. Another poster has also presented their personal justification as to why they think the virtual killing of other non-aggresive humans is more acceptable than the virtual killing of a non-aggressive animal.I'm sure if I took these things as personally as you people obviously do I would be more upset by the killing of virtual sentient races than the killing of virtual kittens.Finally, Moonspell I believe personal attacks are frowned on here so please try and refrain from projecting that 'you kill cute stuff' rubbish on to me and make some relevent points without being rude.

Karrane1

11-27-2008, 01:39 PM

When DoF first came out, in Lock Jaws lair you had to kick some small animal.. i think it might of been a cat.. lol but i cant remember.. But my point is that SOE changed that little thing so we didnt have to hurt that animal anymore. I am with the OP here and think that should be changed.. its a kitten 8(

glowsintheda

11-27-2008, 01:51 PM

The option exists to do the quest with out killing the kittens. If you made people do it by hiding them then people that role play evil characters would complain about how hiding them is not in keeping with what their character would do.

Mirdo

11-27-2008, 01:56 PM

I believe they will change it.I also believe that if everyone that took offence at killing 'insert animal/being here' complained, there wouldn't be much of a game left.As I recall the complaint thread for the DoF 'kicking the cat into the crocodile' event grew quite large. In the end, the cat was changed to a bucket of fish. I wonder what they could substitute the kittens for? The quest might require afull change at that point because killing any 'innocent' virtual thing is going to upset someone.Anyway, I'm off to slaughter as many kittens as I can before they change the quest. I've put on my big stomping boots and have collected a sack full of rocks.Here kitty kitty!

Alienor

11-27-2008, 03:06 PM

shark fin soup anyone? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So you actually could kill the kittens? I thought I have to put them into the provided bag...

Amise

11-27-2008, 04:14 PM

Nope, you could choose to kill them. I did. Twice. Funnily enough I don't kill animals IRL. You know, because I know the difference between a game and reality.If people are concerned that their young, impressionable children might be psychologically damaged by the fact that it is possible to kill kittens, maybe they should stop letting a game do their parenting job for them.

M0rticia

11-27-2008, 07:00 PM

<cite>Nailoo@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Am I one of the few (saying few instead of only one because I've discussed this with guildies and they agree) that thinks it's sick and EQ/SOE were wrong by having a quest where you KILL KITTENS to prove how evil you are? I know you have the option to hide them instead but still, it bothers me. </blockquote>You don't have to kill the kittens. I chose to hide them in a bag and then when I completed the quest, the update said I set them free outside the caves.This is a GAME. While 99.9% of decent human beings on the planet would NEVER hurt a cat/dog/rat/etc., in the game world you have to take it for what it is...a quest in a fantasy game. It's just pretend. Trolls don't like kittens and wanted them dead (or you can fool them and put them in a bag like I did). If you're going to complain about the kitten issue, you could complain about ALL gaming in general. There are hundreds of mobs in eq2 that should not be killed in real life. I'm sure there are hundreds in WoW as well. In Eq2, WoW, Fallout 3, etc. you are killing HUMANS and ANIMALS!Just because I kill a human, a lion, an elephant, or stick a kitten in a sack in a GAME, doesn't mean I am going to do it in real life. I am a huge animal lover and would never hurt an animal. I have two cats myself. After sticking the kittens into a sack, I didn't suddenly have the urge to go kill my own cats. I know you were specifically mentioning children being influenced by this quest but honestly, if a parent raises a child to respect animals and starts that lesson at an early age, I'm sure any minor playing this game can seperate fantasy from reality. If the child cannot, then there is a much larger issue. If a parent is concerned over their child getting weird ideas from playing video games, then they simply shouldn't be allowed to play video games where you kill anything. Video games have a rating for a reason...it is a parents responsibility to judge what games/movies/tv shows are appropriate for their kids.If you are worried that a quest in a fantasy game is going to turn a kid into a serial killer or some kind of animal abuser...well, the parents should be taking responsibility and monitor the kid's game play and types of games s/he gets to play. If a kid goes on a real life killing spree or starts killing dogs for fun, I seriously doubt SoE having a quest with kittens would be to blame. That kid was all ready messed up! Yes, I guess money-grubbing, lawsuit-happy parents could try to sue a video game maker for something their kid did but I seriously doubt it would stand up in court. Games have warnings. A responsible parent should be involved, aware and make the final decision on what games (if any) are appropriate for their child.This reminds me of a complaint a LONG time ago when someone said it was cruel to kick a cat into Lockjaw's mouth. As an animal lover I wasn't too fond of the idea of kicking a cat...or killing the panthers and lions, etc. in-game but I know this is a game. A digital cat, dog, mouse, lion, etc. isn't feeling any pain. It's not real. It didn't make me go kill my own pets simply because I completed a quest.

Dezimus

11-27-2008, 07:57 PM

<cite>Nailoo@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know it's only a game, but you also see in the news all the time about some stupid kids with worthless parents abusing animals. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> </blockquote>If you know it's only a game, then why are you getting upset over something in game. What happens in real life and what happens in game are not related. No offence, but get over events that occur in game. If this were a discussion about an Real life event, you'd have my total agreement. However, this is not a real life event.Sheesh <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />

Tikku Lilledrum

11-28-2008, 09:02 PM

<cite>M0rticia wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is a GAME. While 99.9% of decent human beings on the planet would NEVER hurt a cat/dog/rat/etc., in the game world you have to take it for what it is...a quest in a fantasy game. It's just pretend. Trolls don't like kittens and wanted them dead (or you can fool them and put them in a bag like I did). If you're going to complain about the kitten issue, you could complain about ALL gaming in general. There are hundreds of mobs in eq2 that should not be killed in real life. I'm sure there are hundreds in WoW as well. In Eq2, WoW, Fallout 3, etc. you are killing HUMANS and ANIMALS!</blockquote>You are completely right.But then again, I do like cats and kittens, and I don't like trolls or armored man running towards me with drawn swords.<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Nanea

11-30-2008, 04:10 AM

The quest says without killing them so before you cry and call for your PETA cronies - read.

shadowedwolf

11-30-2008, 05:43 AM

<cite>Mirdo@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I also believe that if everyone that took offence at killing 'insert animal/being here' complained, there wouldn't be much of a game left.As I recall the complaint thread for the DoF 'kicking the cat into the crocodile' event grew quite large. In the end, the cat was changed to a bucket of fish. I wonder what they could substitute the kittens for?</blockquote>Maybe they could substitute the kittens for small children, Gnolls.... or worse than 10k hungry Trolls standing over your bed as you sleep... Nathan Ironforge!Is it wrong for SoE to have you 'kill kittens'? Ummm... as it has been pointed out, you have an option to rescue them and it's a game anyways. Personally, I think it was put in because 'prove your evil, kill a kitten' because lets face it, Trolls can be nasty critters. Like RL, there are some decent ones then there are some real *****************! And it lets the player decide, 'am I a heartless bastage or am I a nice guy?' Ah, freewill. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It doesn't bother many (if anyone) that we have to kill (non-agro) wolves for various quests just because some NPC is a dolt, nor does it bother anyone to kill Gnolls even though there is a long historical/social/reflective speech I could give. (And believe me, I have... my guild won't even invite my lowbies to zones with Gnolls anymore...) But really... atleast this quest gives YOU the player the choice to be good or evil w/o having to outwardly avoid it all together. And while SoE might cave, I hope they don't because a) if they do, where does it stop? and b) it gives you a choice to be good or bad, and let's face it... *I* like having choices in life. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />On a side note, whether they change it or not... stupid parents will ALWAYS find something to blame games/tv/music on. I think they'd find a way to blame a game full of rainbows, sunshine and hugs for something twisted thier child did if it turned attention to something other than thier bad parenting. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

revren

11-30-2008, 03:50 PM

Hey Hey Need more quests that actully make you think about your consequences, that make people angry , or put some kind of choices besides what gear at the end is better. I actully really thought this quest was great, you could save the kittens , or just drop a massive AOE. What have been more interesting is if either way to complete the quest actully mattered >< IN the end it is the same quest line. Welcome HomeRev

Apocroph

11-30-2008, 03:56 PM

Littl

11-30-2008, 04:09 PM

I have not done this quest yet but when I do, I will hide the kittens like the other guy said! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> Just like I never kill good Burynai's because Burrynai's are our friends and they are the people of my house Burynai Buddy. When I found out about the Lore and Legend for them I was glad that people told me that I could find the bad Burynais who are enemies of the good Burynai peoples to kill.<img src="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/Littlelisa007/Burynai-Seeker-House-Pet2.jpg" width="516" height="381" />

Dreww

11-30-2008, 05:26 PM

Seriously grow up, its a video game, are you a member of PETA or PITA, i forget what they are lol, stop QQing and start playing besides the quest is to bag kittens, not kill kittens, and so what if it was its a video game stop crying and play

Dreww

11-30-2008, 05:27 PM

They have games like Hello Kitty Island Adventure for people who complain about subjects such as this, what an embarrasing thread

Lethe5683

11-30-2008, 05:30 PM

That sounds like a good quest then and not some trivial stupid thing like mine 4 fish to get the reward. Quests that actually have an emotional impact are good as long as they aren't completly in appropriate because thats what a RP game is supposed to be like.

Dreww

11-30-2008, 05:32 PM

If you were like Kromo or I ,after we bagged the kittens we killed the remaining just because it took us so long to find the sack to put them in, because we werent looking in the right spot [Removed for Content]

troodon

11-30-2008, 07:25 PM

Wow, I haven't done this quest but it actually give the player an option to kill some kittens?That's awesome! Seriously, don't get rid of this. I've been disappointed since release about how little evil stuff there is to do in this game. All my characters get to do is run around helping people and saving the world. I play evil characters (Iksar and Trolls) almost exclusively and they need some opportunity to show their maliciousness. Trolls eat sentients for amusement, you think they're going to hesitate to kill some small furry animal?Some people want their characters to be evil, leave what little content we get alone.

Asari

11-30-2008, 07:28 PM

I think the quest is perfect as is... it gives players a choice to complete the quest in an "evil" way or a "good" way by either killing the kittens or hiding them. For a game that focuses its central story around the strugles of the good and noble Qeynos and the evil and corrupt Freeport, there sure isn't much to differentiate the two when it comes to quests. This is a fine step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.Take Kunark for example... my Shadowknight helped a Bellywhumper build and decorate a burrow. A Shadowknight. Helping a chubby rat. To make a shiny nest. Um... I should have been given the option of slaughtering the rat, taking his shinies, and burning that filthy hovel to the ground. Then I could pillage his neighbors and drive the whole lot of them over the cliff to their death. I'm sure their pelts would have fetched some fine coin in Freeport! But nooooo, I have to play nice and pretend I'm a Paladin and help them.Sure, I could skip the overly good quests... but where are the "evil" storylines to compensate for them? Why is it always "help so-and-so" in the quests? I didn't make an evil character so I could be BFF with every half-sentient lump of meat crawling around Norrath. I WANT pirates to welcome me as a kindred soul! I want Bellywhumpers to cower in fear before me. I want to forge alliances with all the foes of that wretched city of Qeynos until the rubble of it's walls can be used to pave the streets of my glorious Freeport!But meh, for now I need to finish a quest to help some *shudder* Froglok paladins of Marr *sigh*

Lethe5683

11-30-2008, 07:47 PM

<cite>Asari wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the quest is perfect as is... it gives players a choice to complete the quest in an "evil" way or a "good" way by either killing the kittens or hiding them. For a game that focuses its central story around the strugles of the good and noble Qeynos and the evil and corrupt Freeport, there sure isn't much to differentiate the two when it comes to quests. This is a fine step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.Take Kunark for example... my Shadowknight helped a Bellywhumper build and decorate a burrow. A Shadowknight. Helping a chubby rat. To make a shiny nest. Um... I should have been given the option of slaughtering the rat, taking his shinies, and burning that filthy hovel to the ground. Then I could pillage his neighbors and drive the whole lot of them over the cliff to their death. I'm sure their pelts would have fetched some fine coin in Freeport! But nooooo, I have to play nice and pretend I'm a Paladin and help them.Sure, I could skip the overly good quests... but where are the "evil" storylines to compensate for them? Why is it always "help so-and-so" in the quests? I didn't make an evil character so I could be BFF with every half-sentient lump of meat crawling around Norrath. I WANT pirates to welcome me as a kindred soul! I want Bellywhumpers to cower in fear before me. I want to forge alliances with all the foes of that wretched city of Qeynos until the rubble of it's walls can be used to pave the streets of my glorious Freeport!But meh, for now I need to finish a quest to help some *shudder* Froglok paladins of Marr *sigh*</blockquote>Don't compare those evil things to rats, rats are much better.

kahonen

11-30-2008, 08:45 PM

So basically we have people pretending to be dwarves, elves, trolls gnomes etc doing a quest involving not killing kittens and the realism of that bothers people.Errr, excuse me? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /><hr />

liveja

12-01-2008, 02:26 PM

Evaw

12-02-2008, 02:51 AM

Hidden Cache anyone? /kicks cat.. seriously im an animal lover myself id never kick a cat but these are pixels on a video game... please put energy used to complain into more worthwhile things like farming void shards /nods

de lori

12-02-2008, 04:17 AM

i put the kittens in the bag.But i havent handed in the quest yet.....they are still in the bag....meowing....prolly pretty hungry by now too.

Zsargrieb3

12-02-2008, 06:53 AM

I don't mind the content of the quest What really pisses me off about the quest line is the fact that it is a level 79 quest line that can be picked up at level 74 and yet you can not use the disguise til level 80. They either need to fix the quest line and make it higher and worth alot more exp or change the item to be usable at a lower level.

Illyakuran

12-02-2008, 03:55 PM

I killed the cats but didn't get any quest updates so I had to bag 'em instead. Guess it must be bugged for me.

Noaani

12-03-2008, 11:40 AM

<cite>Clemency@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hidden Cache anyone? /kicks cat..</blockquote>Don't forget the dog at the end of the Qeynos > Freeport betrayal.

Geothe

12-03-2008, 01:59 PM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Clemency@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hidden Cache anyone? /kicks cat..</blockquote>Don't forget the dog at the end of the Qeynos > Freeport betrayal.</blockquote>Except by the end of that Betrayal quest you just cant wait to kill that dang dog!

graewulf

12-03-2008, 02:53 PM

This is the dumbest thread I've ever seen. IT'S A GAME! I haven't done this quest yet, but I hope it's repeatable. I'll happily do it over and over again to kill some kitties. I love the fact that people are ok with killing other people in a game, but killing an animal poses problems. Give me a break. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /> I'm allergic to cats in RL and I don't like them anyway. I don't hurt them in RL, but [Removed for Content] straight I'll smack them IN A GAME. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" />

Grumble69

12-03-2008, 04:49 PM

Sorry, but the "it's just a game" argument doesn't fly. The quest could be changed where you molest a child or eat a baby. It may be virtual, but there is a certain decency standard that you don't cross. I didn't like the dog part in the betrayal quest. And I'm surprised they repeated the theme here....on a side note, I wonder if I had a character named "KittenKiller" whether SOE would change it....

graewulf

12-03-2008, 05:00 PM

<cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry, but the "it's just a game" argument doesn't fly. The quest could be changed where you molest a child or eat a baby. It may be virtual, but there is a certain decency standard that you don't cross. I didn't like the dog part in the betrayal quest. And I'm surprised they repeated the theme here....on a side note, I wonder if I had a character named "KittenKiller" whether SOE would change it....</blockquote>That would be crossing a line, because it's a child or baby. A human being. Sorry, but animals are fair game. Dogs and cats may be deemed 'untouchable', by some, but who's to decide that? People from India would be terribly offended if it was cows being 'mistreated', but those same people whining about dogs and cats may not think so.Either way, I'm sure the bleeding hearts at Sony will listen to all these other bleeding hearts and change the quest eventually. That would be the 'PC' thing to do. /puke <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />

Amise

12-03-2008, 05:32 PM

<cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry, but the "it's just a game" argument doesn't fly. The quest could be changed where you molest a child or eat a baby.</blockquote>Could be? I mean, what? You're opposed to the sokokar quest on the basis that it could be changed into something more offensive?What the quest could be is irrelevant. The only relevant thing is what it is. And what it is is a quest where you have the option to do the nice thing and put the kittens in a bag to save their pathetic lives.I don't see anyone complaining about the fact that they had the option to kill a froglok (a follower of Marr who is lawful good) in another quest in that series. Nobody cares that they have the option to kill a sentient lawful good being but they're all crying about kittens? Please.

Grumble69

12-03-2008, 07:07 PM

What an odd choice of words for you to focus on. lolThe point is that just because EQ2 is a virtual game doesn't mean that "anything goes". As the OP stated, there are a lot of other things they could have done instead that would have been better. There was no need to even broach this topic. IMO though, the betrayal is much worse because you have no other choice except to beat & kill the dog.

M0rticia

12-03-2008, 07:09 PM

This thread is still alive? Jeez! Put the darn kittens in the bag like I did and move on, people!

Zaldor

12-03-2008, 07:39 PM

Where is this quest and what level does a character need to be to do it? Also, is it repeatable?

Lader

12-03-2008, 08:02 PM

you apparently dont have a problem with leading a deer who views you as his mother to its death in sof.the "its just a game argument does fly" bc you are not, in fact, destroying a life. you are causing pixels to disappear. no matter the content. you have certain "lines of morality" that you think shouldnt be crossed. doesnt mean that line is the same for everyone.

hellfire

12-03-2008, 08:17 PM

And in some countries people eat dog and cats and its normal for that country....go bother them instead of a "fantasy" game forum.

Amise

12-03-2008, 08:30 PM

Grumble69

12-03-2008, 09:30 PM

So if it were human babies, you would be fine with that because it's not real?

M0rticia

12-04-2008, 02:13 AM

<cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite><blockquote>So if it were human babies, you would be fine with that because it's not real?</blockquote>There are many games that include 'killing' people (yes, the term 'people' includes children and babies). I have no problem 'killing' people (or animals...or putting cats in bags) in Fallout 3, Everquest 2, Bio Shock or any other game. It is a GAME.Yes, this argument does fly. It is a GAME. I am not killing my pets, animals at the zoo or my neighbors. I am 'killing' pixels on a screen. Pixels that feel no pain and were designed to be 'killed' (or placed in a bag). Just because I do 'kill' pixels on a screen does not make me want to do this in real life. My morals and social values have not vanished because I am a gamer.Give it a rest people. If you don't like the quest and have some moral issues with it, either skip the quest or quit playing video games that include 'killing'. There are several games (like tetris, mario kart, guitar hero and wii sports) that do not require you to 'kill' anything and may be more your style.

Maizey3

12-04-2008, 02:50 AM

I just wanted to add that for whatever reason the quest it took me off-guard also.

troodon

12-04-2008, 04:22 AM

<cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry, but the "it's just a game" argument doesn't fly. The quest could be changed where you molest a child or eat a baby. </blockquote>I would be alright with giving players the option to eat babies. I can imagine Trolls finding human or elven babies to be quite delicious. From an RP perspective, do you think a Paladin or Templar sacking Blackburrow wouldn't have to kill scores of Gnollish children who think they're brave and attack the player in a futile attempt to protect their village?Molestation is a strawman because this game has no sexuality in it, lawful and consentual or otherwise.

Grumble69

12-04-2008, 04:54 AM

<cite>M0rticia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite><blockquote>So if it were human babies, you would be fine with that because it's not real?</blockquote>There are many games that include 'killing' people (yes, the term 'people' includes children and babies). I have no problem 'killing' people (or animals...or putting cats in bags) in Fallout 3, Everquest 2, Bio Shock or any other game. It is a GAME.Yes, this argument does fly. It is a GAME. I am not killing my pets, animals at the zoo or my neighbors. I am 'killing' pixels on a screen. Pixels that feel no pain and were designed to be 'killed' (or placed in a bag). Just because I do 'kill' pixels on a screen does not make me want to do this in real life. My morals and social values have not vanished because I am a gamer.Give it a rest people. If you don't like the quest and have some moral issues with it, either skip the quest or quit playing video games that include 'killing'. There are several games (like tetris, mario kart, guitar hero and wii sports) that do not require you to 'kill' anything and may be more your style.</blockquote>It's a disturbing point of view. There was a game created in the 80s for the old Atari system called Custer's Revenge. Basically you avoided arrows to raype Indian women. I'm guessing you're fine by that too because it's a "game" and only involves pixels.

kartikeya

12-04-2008, 07:31 AM

You know, I gotta ask...Did any of you folks objecting to the terrible kitten massacre have any issues in the slightest with the entire questline involving the boarfiends? Or do they not count because they're not cute, and because they happen to object to people invading their territory?Lemme 'splain for those who skipped this one or don't remember it: one of the gnome bots sends you off to the boarfiend caves for several missions. In these missions you do the following:- Kill a number of boarfiends to make a disguise out of their skin, which you then wear.- You use this to gain the trust of the one boarfiend who sees how his people's lot could be vastly improved. He trusts you enough to tell you that he'd like to overthrow the current ruler so that these measures can be implemented.- You attempt to get him exiled and/or executed by his own people by betraying this to the current leader.- When this doesn't work, you attempt to murder him yourself. (he runs away, self exiling himself because he still thinks you're one of his people and you turned on him after he confided in you).- You do all of this because the boarfiends gaining any sort of power would be inconvenient to the gnomes and their bots. Mind you, the GNOMES are the invaders here, the boarfiends LIVE in the Moors.- Oh yeah, did I forget to mention one of the early quests has you kidnapping one of their children so that the bot can study it?- And at the end of the questline, the bot very coldly talks about disposing of the child now that the studies are done. As in killing it. You rescue it, but it's still implied by the end of the quest that the kid is never going to go home (why? No real reason, the bot just demands that he's never taken back, and assumes that you're going to kill him). You then get your very own summonable boarfiend pet.That's a far more disturbing quest than some over the top black humor about kitten killing. Didja blink twice at it? (This is not, mind, a complaint about that quest--just a curiosity as to whether people who are feeling up in arms about the murder of digital kittens felt any qualms about the killing, attempted murder, broken trust, and child kidnapping that went on with the boarfiend line. I'd be willing to bet that because they were aggressive to you, over you being in their turf, most folks felt justified.)

NightGod473

12-04-2008, 11:39 AM

<cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>M0rticia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite><blockquote>So if it were human babies, you would be fine with that because it's not real?</blockquote>There are many games that include 'killing' people (yes, the term 'people' includes children and babies). I have no problem 'killing' people (or animals...or putting cats in bags) in Fallout 3, Everquest 2, Bio Shock or any other game. It is a GAME.Yes, this argument does fly. It is a GAME. I am not killing my pets, animals at the zoo or my neighbors. I am 'killing' pixels on a screen. Pixels that feel no pain and were designed to be 'killed' (or placed in a bag). Just because I do 'kill' pixels on a screen does not make me want to do this in real life. My morals and social values have not vanished because I am a gamer.Give it a rest people. If you don't like the quest and have some moral issues with it, either skip the quest or quit playing video games that include 'killing'. There are several games (like tetris, mario kart, guitar hero and wii sports) that do not require you to 'kill' anything and may be more your style.</blockquote>It's a disturbing point of view. There was a game created in the 80s for the old Atari system called Custer's Revenge. Basically you avoided arrows to raype Indian women. I'm guessing you're fine by that too because it's a "game" and only involves pixels.</blockquote>And in the Grand Theft Auto games, you can sleep with prostitues and then beat them up to get your money back. Is this REALLY going to turn into a huge debate about video game morals and come to encompass the entire industry, or are we going to keep the focus of this where it belongs? Seriously people, its pixels of kittens on a screen and you even have the option to NOT kill them if it bothers you.Grow up and stop trying to enforce your personal morals on thousands of people you don't even know. Just like flipping through the channels and finding something that bothers you, you have the option of changing the channel (not doing the quest at all) and, above and beyond that, this gives you the chance to reach into the screen and change the outcome of the show (by putting them in the bag and freeing them later instead). Get over the fact that some may prefer to let the show play out as it was originally written, either out of indifference, a desire to roleplay their character to the fullest or, possibly, even some sadistic tweak they have.

LordPazuzu

12-04-2008, 01:24 PM

Wow, I stumbled upon the kitten pen without having the quest and spent 20 minutes slaughtering all of them over and over just for fun. I even put the Stephen Lynch "Kill a Kitten" song on in the background. I shoulda YouTubed it.

NightGod473

12-04-2008, 06:20 PM

ROFLMAO, I'm going to have to go listen to some Stephen Lynch now!

Anesh

12-04-2008, 09:19 PM

Well where were you when people were out in Antonica killing rats? They are just as helpless as kittens, oh but it's okay to kill rats because they are disease vectors and kittens aren't? Who are you to say that a kitten's life is more important than a majestic hawk in Thundering Steppes?Step away from the computer, pet your cat or a friends cat and remember the difference between living breathing animals and a flat two dimensional computer screen.

NightGod473

12-04-2008, 09:47 PM

<cite>Aneshia@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well where were you when people were out in Antonica killing rats? They are just as helpless as kittens, oh but it's okay to kill rats because they are disease vectors and kittens aren't? Who are you to say that a kitten's life is more important than a majestic hawk in Thundering Steppes?Step away from the computer, pet your cat or a friends cat and remember the difference between living breathing animals and a flat two dimensional computer screen.</blockquote>Let us not forget the ever so lovable deerlings over there in TS! Poor Bambi!

Lethe5683

12-06-2008, 01:16 PM

<cite>kartikeya wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know, I gotta ask...Did any of you folks objecting to the terrible kitten massacre have any issues in the slightest with the entire questline involving the boarfiends? Or do they not count because they're not cute, and because they happen to object to people invading their territory?Lemme 'splain for those who skipped this one or don't remember it: one of the gnome bots sends you off to the boarfiend caves for several missions. In these missions you do the following:- Kill a number of boarfiends to make a disguise out of their skin, which you then wear.- You use this to gain the trust of the one boarfiend who sees how his people's lot could be vastly improved. He trusts you enough to tell you that he'd like to overthrow the current ruler so that these measures can be implemented.- You attempt to get him exiled and/or executed by his own people by betraying this to the current leader.- When this doesn't work, you attempt to murder him yourself. (he runs away, self exiling himself because he still thinks you're one of his people and you turned on him after he confided in you).- You do all of this because the boarfiends gaining any sort of power would be inconvenient to the gnomes and their bots. Mind you, the GNOMES are the invaders here, the boarfiends LIVE in the Moors.- Oh yeah, did I forget to mention one of the early quests has you kidnapping one of their children so that the bot can study it?- And at the end of the questline, the bot very coldly talks about disposing of the child now that the studies are done. As in killing it. You rescue it, but it's still implied by the end of the quest that the kid is never going to go home (why? No real reason, the bot just demands that he's never taken back, and assumes that you're going to kill him). You then get your very own summonable boarfiend pet.That's a far more disturbing quest than some over the top black humor about kitten killing. Didja blink twice at it? (This is not, mind, a complaint about that quest--just a curiosity as to whether people who are feeling up in arms about the murder of digital kittens felt any qualms about the killing, attempted murder, broken trust, and child kidnapping that went on with the boarfiend line. I'd be willing to bet that because they were aggressive to you, over you being in their turf, most folks felt justified.)</blockquote>Yeah that quest was fun. I hate those pig things. <cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite><blockquote>So if it were human babies, you would be fine with that because it's not real?</blockquote>Yeah, I would prefer that to killing kittens.

OmakkFacebreaker

12-06-2008, 11:31 PM

Heh.Hehe.Hehehehahahahahhahaha.This brings me back to EQ1's quest involving a Halfling in Misty Thicket named Lil Honeybugger. You were sent to kill her to 'send a message' by a dark elf rogue who was one of the leaders of the Ebon Hand. The interesting part of this quest was that, after you killed her, it was revealed that she was pregnant with said Dark Elf Rogue's child, and that he couldn't have that happen.People of course freaked out, and the quest was eventually changed. As a roleplayer, I felt a little bit sad, as the quest was one of the few truly 'evil' quests in EQ1 in my opinion, and left you with a bit of anger at the end because you had unwittingly done something so foul, even most people's evil toons would have felt a bit nauseous at the thought of it. My Shadowknight however, would've done it again knowing the truth.Yes, it is 'sick'. And that is the point. Evil isn't misunderstood brigands and shadowknights who really just want a better life for themselves, or Necromancers who are just looking for Immortality and got lost along the way to their goal. Its [Removed for Content] EVIL.

troodon

12-07-2008, 05:49 AM

<cite>OmakkFacebreaker wrote:</cite><blockquote>Evil isn't misunderstood brigands and shadowknights who really just want a better life for themselves, or Necromancers who are just looking for Immortality and got lost along the way to their goal. Its [Removed for Content] EVIL.</blockquote>/applaudThis guy gets it.

Katsi

12-07-2008, 11:57 PM

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>OmakkFacebreaker wrote:</cite><blockquote>Evil isn't misunderstood brigands and shadowknights who really just want a better life for themselves, or Necromancers who are just looking for Immortality and got lost along the way to their goal. Its [Removed for Content] EVIL.</blockquote>/applaudThis guy gets it.</blockquote>I disagree.There are different types of evil.There is the "evil for evil" sake that you are describingThere is the "I don't care about what happens to others, as long as I get what I want" evilThere is the "Eww, that guy is doing something weird/disgusting/taboo he must be evil" evilThere is the "I'm doing what I have to, in order to survive, and if it happens to be evil, oh well" eviletc.Personally, I can handle the kittens. I like the idea of scooping them up and taking them away to protect them from this cruel troll cretin. *poor things, it's ok, he's not going to hurt you anymore...*However, in the Q to F betrayal, I had to have my husband take took over my character to finish the quest when I wasn't there, as he felt that I would hae been far more likely to try to switch to another city first. That would be the part where you take a dog that was completely loyal to a now gone Qeynos supporter and train him to respond to you, to trust you, to obey you... and then you are to kill it.Not only could I not do it, I was also very aware of the message that it was delivering to the new Freeport recruits - Go ahead and give your all to Freeport/the Overlord, it doesn't matter, they're just going to have you killed for their own desires in the end.Now that is evil to me.~ CerilynnEdited to correspond with my husband's memories, as mine are admittedly not photographic, to say the least.

shadowedwolf

12-08-2008, 03:35 AM

I was telling my friend about this post, because it makes me laugh a little on the inside. No disrespect is met, but with all the things 'wrong' in this game I find it funny (in my dark humour sort of way) that a quest that gives you a CHOICE is being complained about. I mean, the insults hurled at my Half-Elf Ranger whenevr he's in Qeynos (Freeportians are nicer to my High Elf Necro than the Qeynosians are to my bloody Half-Elf Ranger!), the aforementioned Qeynos to Freeport betrayal and so many other things... and... yea... lol. Sorry... I'm wierd.Anyways, my friend brought something up, on the lines of 'animal cruelty' and other 'twisted perversions' that I haven't seen mentioned yet. The Thule diety quests. The first one is a prime example of 'twisted delight' in that village in Thundering Steepes. I can't remember the steps in order but... You plant a body, poison animals, gut them, splatter the guts in all but one bed and 'watch the Fear spread.' So... mutilation, assecory to murder, animal cruelty, framing... etc, etc. One of the other ones has you robbing graves and planting trinkets from the graves in the beds of the deceased person's family! Good stuff...At anyrate... there are alot of quests in game that make me shake my head and go 'why am I doing this?' Sure I could skip quests and not get xp but... it's not even that. It's more 'why is (insert random toon) helping these guys?! It's not something they'd do because (insert backstory). For example, why are devoted followers of Marr helping Frogloks (pally epic) in Kunzar that turned thier back on Marr to worship Bertoxxulous? Why are they helping various Sects of the Iksar Empire?! Eh... I just think that it's nice to actually have choice in a quest, even if the outcome is the same. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

ke'la

12-08-2008, 01:19 PM

<cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite><blockquote>What an odd choice of words for you to focus on. lolThe point is that just because EQ2 is a virtual game doesn't mean that "anything goes". As the OP stated, there are a lot of other things they could have done instead that would have been better. There was no need to even broach this topic. IMO though, the betrayal is much worse because you have no other choice except to beat & kill the dog.</blockquote>So in order to prove how EVIL you are you have to do something truly EVIL.. funny that...Um, again we are talking about EVIL here... I am fairly certain EVIL people have no problem killing helpless creatures... This is what happens when people forget what EVIL is... Yes it's a game and THAT is the point, it accually teaches something and that is killing the helpless is EVIL....Unlike say killing a peaceful Gnoll Shamon and sparking centeries of war... Maybe you should read the lore around Befallen and the BBC some time... The Gnolls and Humans where going to be allies... until the HUMANS betrayed them... well one did atleast... now we are doing our best to wipe that race out... heck there are still Gnolls that are willing to aline with players... if you prove yourself trustworthy...I just find it funny how people would willingly kill say Centars, very few if any are accually agressive, who are thinking senciant beings, but they quivile over HIDING kittens.../boggleBTW, this is not the only place you can kill Kittens... the ones in FP are killable to atleast by my Ratonga.... and I kill them every chance I get... cause they hiss at me.

Mew

12-08-2008, 01:47 PM

Has anyone noticed that the Qeynos to Freeport Betrayal quest for clerics involves winning the trust of a puppy and then slaughtering it? No option to hide it. But I never saw anyone complain about it. Why should there be a double standard for kittens vs puppies? That QtoFP Betrayal quest has been around for many years and not a peep from the user base.

Mikkachu

12-08-2008, 03:47 PM

Oh, I remember a post about someone who claimed that that quest was evil and awful, but that was years ago. They had to have their SO do it for them, and they cried, and they thought it was horrible and against roleplaying, so on.For me: yes, the quest is horrible, but I can also see it being what Lucan demands of his citizens.Why? Because Lucan's a jerk.(I find that almost anything in game can be answered with that. Why is FP so gloomy? Because Lucan's a jerk. Why am I stuck helping these evil Iskar? Because Lucan's a jerk. Why won't Uber Item 4856896578936249.3 drop for me? Because Lucan's a jerk. Seriously, it's better then blaming BBane- you want him on your side. Lucan? No one cares about Lucan. Because he's a jerk.)Lucan demands his subjects be able to kill at a moment's notice those who are loyal to them and who they are loyal to, in his name. He demands that his subjects loyalty to him be higher then their loyalty to innocents, to trust, to morals and goodness and puppies. Because, as you guessed, he's a jerk.So go kill kittens in the name of Lucan. Or don't. The fact that these complaints are about an optional part of the game (never mind that for years you've been able to kill kittens in Freeport- a fact that made me feel insanely guilty the only time I did, but I'm like that) seems a bit odd. There are so many other jerkish questlines in the game, that the complaints are about something entirely optional? Huh.

Murielheart

12-08-2008, 05:49 PM

Kittens? Kittens??? Who cares about Kittens in Lesser Faydark I had to kill a Unicorn to get its Horn. A Unicorn, beautifull magical etheral creature that represent all that is good in this world and I had to kill it....don't talk to me about Kittens I killed a Unicorn I live in shame ever since....Drees Iksar Conjurer on Splitpaw

Katsi

12-08-2008, 10:51 PM

<cite>Mikkachu wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh, I remember a post about someone who claimed that that quest was evil and awful, but that was years ago. They had to have their SO do it for them, and they cried, and they thought it was horrible and against roleplaying, so on.</blockquote>Gee, maybe if you read the previous posts you'd see that I, the person you are horribly mis-remembering, already posted about that experience.And in response to you, I MUST stand up for myself, for it seems that you have put an odd spin on the event. I know that neither my husband or my self ever commented that "I cried," for to do so would have been lying.My husband apparently remembers this far better than I do. Not only does he state that I did not cry, but he has reminded me that the reason I was annoyed/disgusted at the quest was because the only path available to complete it was not approrpriate for the character who was doing it, that if one of my other characters (a High Elf SK) were to be given the quest, she'd have no qualms at all about slaughtering the flea ridden mass of bones and sneeze inducing fur.However I was also annoyed that if it is not right to 'kick a cat' into the jaws of a crocodile, then how is it right for your characters to kill "man's best friend" just to get access to a down trodden city. (I strongly disagree that Freeport is pure evil, but that's a WHOLE other issue to delve into.)I like having options. My main scooped up the kittens and rescued them, she even went and mass slaughtered Nightbloods until she found one that apparently had killed a unicorn in it's past , (served them right for killing those beautiful creatures). (Sorry, Murielheart, if you didn't know there was an option, but you didn't have to kill the unicorn.) It really does help with the roleplay experience. I know my SK would have no problem with killing animals, after all, (to her), that is what they are - animals, not worth the thought it takes to take them outI understand the frustration that the original poster is going through. But after having dealt with the cold hearted posters here once already concerning a quest that doesn't give an option, (for either the RP of the character or the heart of the player), I'm just glad that SOE gave us the the option this time.~ Cerilynn

M0rticia

12-09-2008, 03:18 AM

<cite>Mikkachu wrote:</cite><blockquote>(I find that almost anything in game can be answered with that. Why is FP so gloomy? Because Lucan's a jerk. Why am I stuck helping these evil Iskar? Because Lucan's a jerk. Why won't Uber Item 4856896578936249.3 drop for me? Because Lucan's a jerk. Seriously, it's better then blaming BBane- you want him on your side. Lucan? No one cares about Lucan. Because he's a jerk.)</blockquote>Thanks for making me choke on a diet mountain dew! I was laughing so hard at this part of your post I woke up my boyfriend, who fell asleep on the couch while watching tv! LOL! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Edited: Eye kan't speel veriee gud!

Lethe5683

12-09-2008, 11:56 AM

<cite>Murielheart wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kittens? Kittens??? Who cares about Kittens in Lesser Faydark I had to kill a Unicorn to get its Horn. A Unicorn, beautifull magical etheral creature that represent all that is good in this world and I had to kill it....don't talk to me about Kittens I killed a Unicorn I live in shame ever since....Drees Iksar Conjurer on Splitpaw</blockquote>I hate unicorns.

Mikkachu

12-09-2008, 05:05 PM

<cite>Cerilynn@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>My husband apparently remembers this far better than I do. Not only does he state that I did not cry, but he has reminded me that the reason I was annoyed/disgusted at the quest was because the only path available to complete it was not approrpriate for the character who was doing it, that if one of my other characters (a High Elf SK) were to be given the quest, she'd have no qualms at all about slaughtering the flea ridden mass of bones and sneeze inducing fur.</blockquote>Okay, no, relooking, you didn't stay that you cried. I appologise. You did say that you were so disturbed that you had to log off, and that 'I shut the game off and told him that I would work on Neriak faction this weekend, because I just couldn't do it. I KNOW it's just a bunch of pixels, but this is why I play on a RP server, because I DO get into my characters enough that the idea sickens me. Heck, I don't think my most evil character, a High Elf pally soured into a SK could do it, (original betrayal quest with her).', a rather different tune that you're claiming now- you also claimed that not even Hitler (mm, godwin!) would have done it (???), and that because of the quest, the game should have been rated M because there were too many impressionable teens playing. Your husband remarked that the worst part about the killing the dog thing (and he did indeed talk about how horrible that dog killing thing was in quite a few posts) was the impact it had on you, and that at least for him it wasn't the traumatic event that he believed it would be for you. You talked about how it was just wrong for your good halfling that was going to go open soupkitchens in Freeport to have to following Lucan's commands and kill an innocent doggy.Apparently, I'm not the only one misremembering, aye? But I'm not really here to pick an arguement, just point out that yours and your husband's memory seems as falty as mine.Back to the topic... on quest lines that there aren't really much of a choice on- quest three on a random questline that's going to have to satisfy soloers for another year, or what have ya- I definitely think that choices (like this one has!) is good. I'd also welcome a somewhat nicer path of dealing with the Boarfiends- as well as a crueler path when dealing with the gazillion frogloks you seem to wind up helping in Kunark. On the other hand, things like the Buddy Quest, the poor child in the Neriak quests, the Cazic and Innourak deity quests- your character is chosing evil. For good or ill, they can step back and go back to Haven/Maj'Dul/Kelethin/Qeynos, or any of the neutral or good gods.I can completely understand being upset (to reasonable degrees) by this sort of thing. I'm the sort of person who cries when animals are injured in freakin cartoons, and I sob when I see roadkill often (then again, I cry at sappy Disney World commercials, so I'm just one of those crazy sensitive people). But it is a game, and although I had to bite my lip as my loser coercer started beating on the poor mutt, she'd walked in to the situation on her own. You don't go to Freeport or Neriak without being able to prove that you understand and can obey Lucan's jerkism/the fact that Dark Elves are meannn. Why would Lucan want someone in his city who can't obey his demands and whims? He's not exactly Mister Nice Guy, here- we knew that from the start. ("Hey, we could give another huge blow to the Rallosian army, perhaps even completely destroying them... but, you know, I'd rather go turn on these paladins that fought with us and supported us throughout the war, who without we might not even still be around! Lolz! I AM A BRILLIANT TACTICAL GENIUS!")<cite>M0rticia wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Thanks for making me choke on a diet mountain dew! I was laughing so hard at this part of your post I woke up my boyfriend, who fell asleep on the couch while watching tv! LOL! <img src="../images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote> Oh, wow, I've never gotten that before. ^^ Heh, you're... welcome? I suppose? I guess I should be apologising for that, not giving your welcomes, though... XD Sorry!...As for the Unicorn quest, my poor swashbuckler spent five hours hunting Nightbloods before my lazy self gave up. She never finished that questline, as I just couldn't imagine her killing a unicorn. Period. My coercer will find that one a lot easier, I imagine.

soulljah

12-09-2008, 05:26 PM

To the OP.....how can u play a game that is centered on constantly killing creatures but then complain because you have to kill a specific creature that you like? That is pretty hypocritical. And the questline is to gain rank and trust with some nasty troll pirates....if it was a questline for some tree hugging wood elfs to populate the pet shop then yeah it be differentAnd killing cats and kittens is nothing new, guess you never played a ratonga in temple street. Every cat is killable..... of course they aren't in qyenos, so my betrayed ratonga likes to take trips back home to kill some cats because while in qyenos you can't kill the cats but rats are fair game <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" />. Also why a certain dwarf guard on the willow wood docks meets my blade whenever i see him punising my little cousins <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" />

Leenee

12-09-2008, 06:05 PM

<cite>Mewse wrote:</cite><blockquote>Has anyone noticed that the Qeynos to Freeport Betrayal quest for clerics involves winning the trust of a puppy and then slaughtering it? No option to hide it. But I never saw anyone complain about it. Why should there be a double standard for kittens vs puppies? That QtoFP Betrayal quest has been around for many years and not a peep from the user base. </blockquote>When I read the walkthrough for that, I felt a little guilty that I was going to have to gain the trust of this poor innocent little dog, then slaughter him......but after having to get carpal tunnel from clicking so many times to earn its trust, i was more than happy to slay it.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" />

Themaginator

12-09-2008, 07:42 PM

Epic shark-fin soup thread!

Soul Crusher

12-10-2008, 03:00 AM

Lets just be realistic and close this TERRIBLE thread.First off, this is a FANTASY ROLE PLAYING GAME, you are given options and choices for EVERYTHING you do.Were you forced to do the soko-what quest? no, YOU CHOSE to do the quest, YOU CHOSE to either hurt or harm the kittens, IT IS YOUR CHOICE, BE real, and quit being a child in this manner.Secondly, If it was not a kitten you would'nt give 2c to what creature it was, what if it was a baby croc? or a Gnoll child, YOU WOULD NOT CARE, but god forbid its a cute cuddly kitten, people are going to complain left and right. Please just go back to playing the game, no one is forcing you to do anything.THIS GAME IS ABOUT CHOICE, either YOU choose to play or you DON'T!!!.i swear whats next, if soe puts in a raid where you have to kill a cute fairy for a sacrifice, this games going to see so much hell from idiots.ONE ANSWER TO DESTROY ALL YOUR POINTS AND WHINING, ITS A FANTASY ROLE PLAYING GAME >If you want to play a game where you dont kill sentient creatures or whatnot from IRL oh god forbid, go play Fate or My little pony, you are just pure patheticness and are the reason WHY games are getting dumbed down

Katsi

12-10-2008, 11:10 AM

First of all, it is easy to note that many of those who have a problem with this and similar quests aren't against the killing in the game in general. What many miss is the whole RL connection. Centuars, Orcs, Gnolls and so many others do not exist in the real world, but cats and dogs do.Add to that, the known issue that while YOU (the reader disagreeing with this post) may have the conscious and self control to recognize that we are allowed to kill pixels and not creatures in RL, there are others who don't, and they are the ones we worry about.However, as stated before, in relation to the OPs first mentioned quest, I like having the option (Soul Crusher) available to DO the quest AND to do it in a manner that suits my character (and, for the character that did it, - my conscious), as mentioned above, not all quests offer this. I could go into some seriously long postings here concerning my opinion on Freeport, but that would end up so off topic that it doesn't feel right to do so here.Mikkachu - Thank you for researching that old post. What you posted sparks enough memory that I will not dispute you. However, this side track would not have occured at all if you had not chosen to try and paint me as an emotional weakling. I am a kind person (thus my dislike of killing Buddy), but I am also a strong and pround person, and I will not stand back when an apparent insult is thrown my way.~ Cerilynn

Rokaab

12-10-2008, 11:55 AM

<cite>Cerilynn@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>First of all, it is easy to note that many of those who have a problem with this and similar quests aren't against the killing in the game in general. What many miss is the whole RL connection. Centuars, Orcs, Gnolls and so many others do not exist in the real world, but cats and dogs do.</blockquote>So do rats, lions, tigers, wild dogs and other animals that appear in various places in game, yes, they arent domesticated animals, but theyre still animals, yet most dont complain about killing them. Note: domesticated is probably the relevant word in that sentence.<cite>Cerilynn@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Add to that, the known issue that while YOU (the reader disagreeing with this post) may have the conscious and self control to recognize that we are allowed to kill pixels and not creatures in RL, there are others who don't, and they are the ones we worry about.</blockquote>Those people are probably also affected by tv, movies, radio, and various other types of media. I've seen far worse atrocities on the news in the last few weeks than the killing of a few animals (its still very bad to do it, but theres worse out there). Do you want everything bubble-wrapped so that someone wont be affected, if so its gonna be very very very boring indeed.Note: from my slight RP perspective, my ratonga happily killed the kittens, after all, big cats always seem to persecute my race.

Troubor

12-10-2008, 12:26 PM

<cite>Nailoo@Unrest wrote, I reply within the post in red:</cite><blockquote>(To start, I've only read the OP's post, which I'm quoting now. I haven't read any other replies yet, so my post will reflect that)Am I one of the few (saying few instead of only one because I've discussed this with guildies and they agree) that thinks it's sick and EQ/SOE were wrong by having a quest where you KILL KITTENS to prove how evil you are? I know you have the option to hide them instead but still, it bothers me. (So..you're upset that a possible option is to kill kittens? You're not forced to do so with this quest, one can get a bag and hide them. If you want to RP it that you saved them, you can go to a pet vendor back in your home city, buy 8 cats, put them in your house and say that's the cats you hid for the quest. Even if you don't wish to roleplay that, I guess I can't see how you can be bothered when the option is very clearly there to hide them instead)I know there are other rl animals in the game that you need to kill for quests but that's different than having them fenced in and waiting to be slaughtered. (But yet you also have the option to not kill them, but instead save them. It's like you seem to ignore this fact, even though you even mention it in your post. Otherwise, you can very clearly in the quest choose to hide the cats, lie about killing them, and then RP that your kept them or released them as you see fit. I'd think it wonderful for a pet lover to be able to say you lied to a troll and saved 8 kittens from being a meal so that they could grow up instead.) Plus it's kittens, which along with puppies have a closer connection to people than alot of other animals due to the whole sharing a home with them thing. (Some people have pet pigs too. Should we take out "pig meat" from the den nodes that have that in them? Pig meat is a harvest in game from either tier 2 or tier 3 nodes, I forget which now.As an aside, this reminds me of a very old post about someone being horridly offended by "shark fin" being a food or harvest in game, but I digress)I just think it's really screwed up to have a quest like that. They could've picked a million different things to do besides that to prove to a group of pirates that you're evil enough. (And yet again, you post as if you don't realize that there is the option to hide the cats and lie to the troll that you killed them, even though you mentioned it.)I know it's only a game, but you also see in the news all the time about some stupid kids with worthless parents abusing animals. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> (Someone who's going to abuse an animal doesn't need a MMO to encourage them. They will be abusive regardless. Unfortunetly, sadists exist, and TV shows nor video games didn't create them)Not to mention the fact that when kids do something stupid like abuse animals at least half the time their parents want to try and blame it on some form of entertainment, rather it be tv or a online RPG. (And here I go again, pointing out you ignore the option to save them, even though you mentioned it) It's BS to blame games/tv but it happens and is just another reason that it was a stupid idea for a quest. (Hmmm...and yet AGAIN I point out the option to save the cats and hide them. One has the option to save the cats, and be humane. AGAIN, I'd think that mitigates the option to be creul. Since you're worried about the game being blamed for inspiring someone, what if this simple quest inspires someone to open up a private ran animal shelter? Is the quest so terrible then?)Just my 2 cents... (Along with mine)</blockquote>

Jrral

12-10-2008, 12:45 PM

<cite>Cerilynn@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Add to that, the known issue that while YOU (the reader disagreeing with this post) may have the conscious and self control to recognize that we are allowed to kill pixels and not creatures in RL, there are others who don't, and they are the ones we worry about.</blockquote>I'm minded of a comment on pencil-and-paper RPGs (specifically AD&D) and similar sentiments:"You're the one who thinks people will forget all about reality and try throwing fireballs around and beheading trolls in real life, and I'm the one who's supposed to be crazy?"Most of the people playing this game have a firm grasp of where the line between fantasy and reality lies. The ones who don't, generally didn't long before they got into games. Games sometimes change their focus, but if they weren't into games they'd take their focus from television, or movies, or books, or the newspaper, or whatever else was to hand.

WeatherMan

12-10-2008, 07:16 PM

<cite>Mikkachu wrote:</cite><blockquote>Okay, no, relooking, you didn't stay that you cried. I appologise. You did say that you were so disturbed that you had to log off, and that 'I shut the game off and told him that I would work on Neriak faction this weekend, because I just couldn't do it. I KNOW it's just a bunch of pixels, but this is why I play on a RP server, because I DO get into my characters enough that the idea sickens me. Heck, I don't think my most evil character, a High Elf pally soured into a SK could do it, (original betrayal quest with her).', a rather different tune that you're claiming now- you also claimed that not even Hitler (mm, godwin!) would have done it (???), and that because of the quest, the game should have been rated M because there were too many impressionable teens playing. Your husband remarked that the worst part about the killing the dog thing (and he did indeed talk about how horrible that dog killing thing was in quite a few posts) was the impact it had on you, and that at least for him it wasn't the traumatic event that he believed it would be for you. You talked about how it was just wrong for your good halfling that was going to go open soupkitchens in Freeport to have to following Lucan's commands and kill an innocent doggy.</blockquote>Actually...no. The soup kitchen lady did her betrayal the old-fashioned way, i.e. slaughtering 500 orcs and listening to Matthias Seigemaker preach from his little patch of ground in the Commonlands, right next to that ratonga merchant person. I know, because I brought in a Freeportian and helped her do it. The character your post should refer to is not, in fact, the soup kitchen lady (who is a warden) but a smartaleck pain in the rear (who is a bruiser) patterned after a kender of some small repute in the fantasy community. Both are halflings, and neither of them are really 'evil', so I could see where you would have made this error. Clerical error, if you will.That said, I had two advantages (?) that Cerilynn did not. One, I am basically a cynic, and am fully prepared to believe the worst (even as I (often foolishly) hope for the best) of people. Two, while I agree with Cerilynn that Freeport is not a complete den of moral sewage (which, as she said, is another topic for another time), I also realize that the Powers That Be in Freeport would be very, very suspicious of ex-Qeynosians, and would take steps to insure that they 'can't go home again', regardless of how many Koada'Dal/Halfling/Feir'Dal/Fae/etcetera shadowknights/brigands/necromancers/defilers/whatever were already there. The Norrathian epitome of 'racial profiling', if you will (although it is invariably rooted in the inter-city politics and conflict).You can likely bet that the Overlord's version of the [Removed for Content] is watching them every step they take in between their front door and the gates of the city...maybe even past that. That said, a character is similar to a work in progress, and even at 'end game', it is never actually 'finished'. That is true. However, like a work in progress, there are fundemental aspects of it that you simply do not change. Otherwise, you may as well just start over.

ke'la

12-10-2008, 08:34 PM

<cite>Cerilynn@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>First of all, it is easy to note that many of those who have a problem with this and similar quests aren't against the killing in the game in general. What many miss is the whole RL connection. Centuars, Orcs, Gnolls and so many others do not exist in the real world, but cats and dogs do.What about humans? There are humans you can... and in some cases are required to kill... last I checked there are humans in real life. Do you never kill humans? My guess is you do and as to the excuse that they are "agro"... that was the same reason American Settlers gave for "killin' In'gens" does it make it anymore right when you say it? Remember we are "adventuring" on THIER land.Add to that, the known issue that while YOU (the reader disagreeing with this post) may have the conscious and self control to recognize that we are allowed to kill pixels and not creatures in RL, there are others who don't, and they are the ones we worry about.However, as stated before, in relation to the OPs first mentioned quest, I like having the option (Soul Crusher) available to DO the quest AND to do it in a manner that suits my character (and, for the character that did it, - my conscious), as mentioned above, not all quests offer this. I could go into some seriously long postings here concerning my opinion on Freeport, but that would end up so off topic that it doesn't feel right to do so here.Mikkachu - Thank you for researching that old post. What you posted sparks enough memory that I will not dispute you. However, this side track would not have occured at all if you had not chosen to try and paint me as an emotional weakling. I am a kind person (thus my dislike of killing Buddy), but I am also a strong and pround person, and I will not stand back when an apparent insult is thrown my way.~ Cerilynn</blockquote>

Nakaru-Nitepaw

12-10-2008, 10:16 PM

I'm a druid of tunare, and I... Killed... Kittens. >.>I wanted to charm one but for some reason their not considered animals. O.o

Nakaru-Nitepaw

12-10-2008, 10:22 PM

The part of the quest i did like though was where i had to kil the grob troll.Conversation logTroll: What you want? Why you here?Me: I come to pick a fight!Troll: With me? Why?Me: Yes you. So lets fight!Theres also that quest in grob that goes like this.Troll: You want PUMMEL tings to help clan grob?Me: I LOVE to PUMMEL! ^.^

freel

12-10-2008, 11:18 PM

Too much animal cruelty in RL for a fantasy game to imply its OK to kill or hurt cats and dogs by puttiing in quests that require you to kill RL animals. Use some imagination and put in something that kids (or adults) can't kill in RL. It's the right thing to do. How about orcs or trolls?

Wyrmypops

12-10-2008, 11:58 PM

I find that somewhat specious. By that reasoning, we have a lot of assault in the real world so any confrontations between humanoids should be removed from a game too. We'd have to start attacking trees in-game.If quests like this are changed, then one has to consider whether they're in agreement with that wacky disbarred lawyer that kept banging on about games causing issues. Rather than, as gamers are keen to point out, it's not games that prompt those actions, its those people being wobbly in the head in the first place. Folk assaulted each other and all manner of animals in all manner of ways, long before games, or even language. Games, media, don't create the issues, they merely depict issues that have always existed.It seems to me that defining thing that raises this as an issue at all is not that these are animals (we kill enough other animals), it's that they're cute ikkle kittenywittens. The kind of creatures that tug on the heart strings of folk, and generate the warm fuzzy "aw". Which, to me, seems an appropriate tool to be exploited by the more twisted denizens of Norrath in quest lines such as this.That they're defenceless too, you'd think that should play a part in the heart string tugging, but all those quests where we kill mobs so far beneath an even con to us, that can't be playing a part in the equation after all. So it's just the cuteness giving some folk a problem.That there is an option to complete the quest by alternative means, to me, renders this a complete an utter non-issue.I've only done it once myself, so far. My Qeynosian Zerker, he might not live in one of the "evil" cities, but he's far from a being a kinda and fluffy hearted soul. He did use the bag to hide the kittens. Mostly so he feel like he was getting one over on the pirate. He didn't care about the cuteness, and that bag of kittens, he tossed it in the water when he was done. Was easier than opening it and gently letting the felines go free.When my High Elf Monk does it, he'll bag the kittens too. But only cos he's a deviant and will use them when he gets home, in a Richard Gere kinda way.My Brigand might just kill them. Or, as a devoteee of Bristlebane, might bag them to complete the quest, and in my head then empty it back into the pen, and return with another bag or two of them to prank the stupid pirate.

ke'la

12-11-2008, 12:17 AM

Wyrmypops

12-11-2008, 01:08 AM

Reminds me. There was a table top RPG called Violence, by Hogshead Games, who looked after Warhammer Fantasy Role-Play for some time. It wasn't really a complete, playable game - more an amusing thinng to read and make you think. The premise was that you played one of those crazed psychos, natural born killers - you went around a block of flats (tenement building), bursting in the door, killing the occupants, and stealing their VCR. As a sociopath, you weren't troubled with guilt, didn't waste time considering the families being slaughtered, you just invade their homes and take what you want.The amusing thought being provoked, obviously being that is what we do in games like these. Dungeon bash scenarios in table top RPG's, and similarly in MMO's, we go into areas where we are not rightous liberators but aggresive invaders, killing mobs in their home and stealing their loot.

Lethe5683

12-13-2008, 01:34 PM

<cite>kela wrote:</cite><blockquote>What about humans? There are humans you can... and in some cases are required to kill... last I checked there are humans in real life. Do you never kill humans? My guess is you do and as to the excuse that they are "agro"... that was the same reason American Settlers gave for "killin' In'gens" does it make it anymore right when you say it? Remember we are "adventuring" on THIER land.</blockquote>ROFL!

Iari111

12-13-2008, 04:03 PM

This reminds me of the "shark fin soup" post in the provisioner forums a couple years ago lolIn this game, we kill kittens, deer, badgers, even humans and elves and barbarians. You said it yourself, OP. It's just a game.

Lethe5683

12-13-2008, 04:18 PM

I don't mind killing anything in game except for ratongas.

Wyrmypops

12-13-2008, 09:33 PM

There's not a single mob in-game I object to killing on principle of real world western morality, it ain't me in the real world doing it, nor will it get me to accept that behaviour in the real world. There's some mobs I shy away from killing based on the characters performing it though, but even then not much, as even my Qeynosians are not overly imbued with kindness. I applaud this kittens quest for the simple choice it offers, giving alternate routes to completion based upon personal taste, characterisation, or whatever. If only more quests had choices like the kittens one has.

M0rticia

12-13-2008, 11:40 PM

<cite>Freewyn@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Too much animal cruelty in RL for a fantasy game to imply its OK to kill or hurt cats and dogs by puttiing in quests that require you to kill RL animals. Use some imagination and put in something that kids (or adults) can't kill in RL. It's the right thing to do. How about orcs or trolls?</blockquote>Then, all of the following mobs need to be removed from EQ2 effective immediately:CatsDogsLionsTigersCrocodilesUnicorns (after all, they are a form of horse)MonkeysBatsHawksBadgersAll sea lifeWolvesRatsElephantsBearsCockatrice (they look vaguely like giant chickens)Vulritch (they look vaguely like giant buzzards/vultures)WaspsBeetlesZebrasLizards (including sokokar)SpidersTermitesFrogloks (giant frogs)Kerrans (giant cats)Iksar (giant lizards)Ratongas (giant rats/mice)Sarnak (giant lizards)Fae / Arasai (giant (?) butterflies)Gnolls (giant dogs)PigsSnakesFrogsCentaurs (human AND horse!)Dreaded Stone Peeps (chickens)Sirens (human AND fish!)Skeletons (they were once human)Any form of giant (giant humans!)Any form of fairy (human AND butterfly?)Bixies (human AND bee)Any form of human (killing humans or humanoid-like creatures is wrong)Any form of treant (trees are living things)Orcs (humanoid)Trolls (humanoid)Dragons/drakotas/wyrms/wyverns (too reptile like)Any form of ghost/vampire/zombie/werewolf (they were once human or humanoid, some were animals...and they COULD exist in real life)...the list goes on and on.So will this make it right for players who think that having the OPTION to kill a 'digital' kitten means the end of the world and the disappearance all social, moral and ethical values as we know it?You're saying that all things that exist in-game that also exist in real life (and could potentially be harmed in real life), should be removed from the game? Only fantasy creatures should exist in this game and they are perfectly okay to kill!So we will have vast open zones...and no races to play because they are all modeled after humans or animals. And nothing to 'kill' except...well...maybe...uh...well, what would be left?I guess we could go just harvest things and tradeskill for the remainder of the game's lifespan. Oh no we CAN'T! Some fuel comes from trees (living things) and you are harvesting plants and meat that came from living things!!!There now. Do you see how utterly ridiculous this is?

Lethe5683

12-14-2008, 06:49 PM

You could still kill golems and stuff...

ke'la

12-14-2008, 07:56 PM

<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote>You could still kill golems and stuff...</blockquote>So now you want to destroy some guys animated statues? Vandal!!! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

M0rticia

12-14-2008, 08:56 PM

<cite>kela wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote>You could still kill golems and stuff...</blockquote>So now you want to destroy some guys animated statues? Vandal!!! <img src="../images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Hmm, I didn't think about golems. Although they are human-like in appearance, they are made of stone (a non-living thing) and animated golems do not exist in real life (as far as I know). But, as Ke'la stated, it would be promoting vandalism and misdemeanor property damage.On second thought, golems are not okay either. They are human-like in appearance, which could influence someone in real life to kill a human.No to golems!

magistar

12-15-2008, 10:01 PM

I haven't done this quest, however I have been playing an assassin and decided to follow Rallos Zek. Last night I had to kill 4 unicorns......Everquest is a Role Playing Game, I think some people think of this as superficially just a game I play a specific character in. In fact, you should be thinking about the caracter you play.I am playing an assassin, that means I have chosen as my life's career and path to kill things. I am most effective when I can gang up on someone(thing) and position myself to their defensless back, and then begins piercing their flesh repeatedly for vicious damage to their life. I am an evil person. The story of my life has many tales, fighting through Darklight woods, removing dangerous wildlife, killing undead. I spent some time questing for an assassins blade which led me to freeport, and even Qeynos where upon sighting me, guards beat me to near death then threw me out of their city, just because of my race!!! Now, that I have chosen to worship Rallos, in my quest for adventure, I was told I must slay these beasts. So be it, for I am an assassin, and my blade draws whatever blood I choose.My first character was a guardian, barbarian as it were. I spent a lot of time fighting back the wilds of Antonica so the recently rescued could enjoy safety in the city. I wandered the halls of Stormhold with allies seeking Beriks ancient sword of thunder. I stopped bandits from accosting traders on the roads, and helped captains clear pirates from their vessels so we could sail to other lands. I was a guardian, my blade and blood guarded the lives of others, I was strongest when I had a charge to protect. My story had many paths, from Antonica to Feerott, to new lands of sandy deserts and even floating islands or other planes of existence. I stood my ground, as best as any mortal can, and sometimes I fell to the wicked blased or claws of evil, but I was as good as any can be, because I chose to be.I can accept that someone might find a quest objectionable, but I have to ask, why did you choose to explore a story of evil? Do you decide to watch Night of the Living Dead and get upset because there are people dieing? Did you watch Schindler's List or read Romeo and Juliet and demand that the scripts be changed because of the terrible things that occur? This is why stories are often so bad in games, people won't let them just be stories because we interact with them. The fact that upset people means that it is an engageing portion of a story. Whether it is well written or not I cannot say as I haven't encountered it. Just think about it, your oppinion may not change, but at least think about it.

M0rticia

12-16-2008, 05:20 PM

<cite>magistar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I can accept that someone might find a quest objectionable, but I have to ask, why did you choose to explore a story of evil? Do you decide to watch Night of the Living Dead and get upset because there are people dieing? Did you watch Schindler's List or read Romeo and Juliet and demand that the scripts be changed because of the terrible things that occur? This is why stories are often so bad in games, people won't let them just be stories because we interact with them. The fact that upset people means that it is an engageing portion of a story. Whether it is well written or not I cannot say as I haven't encountered it. Just think about it, your oppinion may not change, but at least think about it.</blockquote>The interesting thing about this quest is, you do NOT HAVE TO KILL kittens. You have a CHOICE to kill them or hide them in a bag and set them free outside.I am a dark elf brigand. I am evil. Although I am evil, I still like cats. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I chose to hide the kittens in a bag and set them free outside.The player is given a CHOICE about how they want their character to complete this quest.No one is 'forced' to kill legions of helpless kittens.I completely understand what you are saying and it makes perfect sense to me. Depending on how you envision your character, you do have a choice as to how your character will complete this quest.