Heal Crit rate for wards not match persona display?

[Baccalarium]

<p>I cast my Ancient Aegis (ad3) on my self 66 times and read the value of the ward from the maintained window.</p><p>10 times the value was 2845,</p><p>55 times the value was 2474,</p><p>Bad news:  My pesona screen says I should be criting 25%,   but this test shows a crit rate of 15%.</p><p>Good news:   flat 15% increase in ward amount rather than applying the crit percent prior to the +heal items.</p><p>Bad news: Reference to an increased amount of crit for wards in update notes didn't apparently mean that we were put on par with other healers and get a minimum of 30% benefit to a heal crit.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>I'm not sure what you're saying here.</p><p>Are you saying that 25% of the time you cast a spell, you should crit?  Or are you saying that instead of a 15% bonus you should be getting 25% bonus to your overall amount?</p><p>I'm a little confused.</p>

[KatrinaDeath]

<p>Trinity, I am confused as well... However I gathered 3 things from the post.</p><p><strong><span style="font-size: medium; color: #ff0000;">2845</span></strong> is 1.15 times or 15% greater than <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong><span style="font-size: medium;">2474 </span></strong></span>so critting for 15% more.</p><p>10 out of 66 wards is a small sample but it shows a critical rate of ~15%.</p><p>55 + 10 = 66</p>

[EQPrime]

<p><cite>Baccalarium wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I cast my Ancient Aegis (ad3) on my self 66 times and read the value of the ward from the maintained window.</p><p>10 times the value was 2845,</p><p>55 times the value was 2474,</p><p>Bad news:  My pesona screen says I should be criting 25%,   but this test shows a crit rate of 15%.</p><p>Good news:   flat 15% increase in ward amount rather than applying the crit percent prior to the +heal items.</p><p>Bad news: Reference to an increased amount of crit for wards in update notes didn't apparently mean that we were put on par with other healers and get a minimum of 30% benefit to a heal crit.</p></blockquote><p>I don't think you can make any real accurate conclusions using only 66 trials.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>Yes, exactly . . . both are 15%, which "could" be an expected value for either.  Is it supposed to be a 25% rate of crits, in which case you would expect more casts to result in a crit, or is it supposed to be 25% crit bonus, in which case you would expect the Wards to be larger.</p><p>I don't know which.</p><p>As a Mystic, I would "expect" a much higher rate of crit myself looking at that 15%.</p><p>Personally, I chose to improve my +Heal mod first, with +Crit as my secondary.  Even so, I'm well over 900 to my +Heal and have like . . . 45% Crit.  I could easily sacrifice some +Heal for more +Crit, but since 900 is "approximately" where my ST Ward caps out, I'm staying there.</p><p>Anyway, I do think 66 casts is a little low for a sample size, though probably not by much.  I'd say 100 casts would be a better sample size.  At least there you'd be able to eyeball it a little and say that while you may not be 100% accurate, it looks like something is "odd" if you were off by 10%.</p><p>The other thing you may want to look at is the gear itself, see if perhaps there is some sort of UI bug that is showing a higher crit rate than truly exists.  In other words, if the UI says your crit rate is 25%, see if you can find 25% worth of +Crit.  If you can only find 15%, then you have a UI bug.</p>

[Baccalarium]

<p>I was saying that if the heal crit percent on the persona window says you should crit 25% of the time, then 10 times out of 66 casts is way way too low.</p><p>This has gone away though, a couple days later a similar test showed the wards critting at the expected rate. General discusion forums has a comment about some scouts having similar problem with AA related melee crit's that repairs itself the first time you change your AA's. (or that is the speculation.) I certainly spent AA during the interval between when it wasn't and was critting at the rate shown on the persona display.</p><p>---------------------------</p><p>I repeated an old whine that probably confused you. I still consider it unfair that other priest get a minimum of 30% boost to a critted heal, while we only get a 15% boost.</p><p>I'll try to be happy at least that the the 15% increase in value of the spell is now applied after the +heal items are applied so that the crit is a flat 15% boost rather than being a 15% boost to the base value of the spell with the +heal items being applied after the crit as it was prior to the expansion.</p><p>Being off by nearly factor of 2 in expected crit rate after 66 trials seemed significant.    The 66 cast trial was broken into two sub trials in which 7/40 casts critted and 3/26 casts critted.    Both sub trials were uniformly below the 25% rate. </p><p>Sorry for short sample size, but eventually the slow pokes make it to the zone so real play can commence.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>Wait until you see what happens with our Heal stance active.  In beta, I had over 15k HP worth of Wards stacked up on my tank in Heroic instances before a tough pull.  It was sick.</p><p>Granted, I was fully Mastered on beta, but it was still pretty impressive.</p>

[Vagn]

<p>That's like an extra Sentry (which is 18k in M1?)</p>

[Elephanton]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>In beta, I had over 15k HP worth of Wards stacked up on my tank in Heroic instances before a tough pull.  It was sick.</p></blockquote><p>I'd really like to see some math backing up this statement since I don't understand how this could be achieved.</p>

[Hendu]

<p><cite>ElephantonRU wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'd really like to see some math backing up this statement since I don't understand how this could be achieved.</p></blockquote><p>Right now, this is achievable without the stance.  If you have full buffs from others, it is easier (CH for example). This is possible with decent non-raid gear.  Forgive my numbers, i'm at work and can't remember what these numbers really would be.  But this should be close.  Again, if you had all the healer buffs that could be offered from groupmates, these numbers can go up pretty easily.  With gravitas and CH, i've seen the group ward get over 7k.</p><p>Group ward crit: ~6kST Crit: ~3kStoicism ~2kThat puts you at 11k alone.  Throw in oberon and you have another 3k easily.  I'd imagine that with the stance, ch, gravitas, you wouldn't need oberon to hit 15k if all of your wards are critting and you have a decent +heal number.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>Yes, I wasn't including anything like Gravitas or Coercive Healing.  I'm sure it would be suitably ludicrous with those in place.</p><p>On beta, I had all my Masters, Mythical, 200 AA and some raid set gear.  Good stuff.</p><p>On Live, I have my Mythical but I'm not fully Mastered.  Still, I can crank out about 10-12k worth of pre-pull Wards right now.  3k ST Ward, 5k Group Ward, 2k Stoicism.  If I toss Oberon on top, I'll be about 13k . . . but I hate being stunned. </p><p>This before I get my Void Shard Shoulders or my healing stance.</p>

[ecoskii]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, I wasn't including anything like Gravitas or Coercive Healing.  I'm sure it would be suitably ludicrous with those in place.</p><p>On beta, I had all my Masters, Mythical, 200 AA and some raid set gear.  Good stuff.</p><p>On Live, I have my Mythical but I'm not fully Mastered.  Still, I can crank out about 10-12k worth of pre-pull Wards right now.  3k ST Ward, 5k Group Ward, 2k Stoicism.  If I toss Oberon on top, I'll be about 13k . . . but I hate being stunned. </p><p>This before I get my Void Shard Shoulders or my healing stance.</p></blockquote><p>careful - void shard shoulders only affect heals.... not wards <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Vagn]

<p><cite>ecoskii wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>careful - void shard shoulders only affect heals.... not wards <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>That's not true.. With all items removed (0 heal mod), my ST ward is 2310.</p><p>When I equip the void shard shoulders, it goes to 2440. The shoulders gives +25 heal amount, which isn't part of the base. So the shoulders increases the ST ward from 2310 to 2415. So SoE math tells us that 5% of 2310 is 105 <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Anyway.. they work with wards too.</p>

[ecoskii]

<p>Will check again tonight - I must have been doing something daft - was using shoulderguards of hate with +95 heal - wards went down when I switched to the void shard ones</p>

[Banditman]

<p>Depending upon what you looked at, 5% + 25 Heal might have been less than +95 Heal.</p><p>As far as Sakjack's math, I think I know what's going on there too.  I would bet that he's taken the 10% increase to ST Ward AA - or some part of it.  That's what is making the math all funky.  Let me take a swing at it . . .</p><p>ST Ward, unmodified by +Heal is 2310.  Now, working backwards . . . 2310 / 1.1 = 2100.  (removing the effects of the 10% AA)</p><p>So, 5% of 2100?  105.</p><p>/em takes a bow.</p>

[Vagn]

<p>Ah, ofcourse.. I forgot all about the AA.</p><p>Good thinking.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>That does bring up an interesting point though now that I think about it.  "Base" increases are additive, in parallel, not series.  Basically, every single increase refers back to the initial base amount.  So if you had three things each giving 10% bonus to a 1000 pt Ward / Heal, you'd get:</p><p>(1000) + (1000 x .1) + (1000 x .1) + (1000 x .1) = 1300</p><p>As opposed to . . .</p><p>(1000 x 1.1) = 1100, (1100 x 1.1) = 1210, (1210 x 1.1) = 1331</p>