What scout class gets the most out of illusionary arm buff?

[Mascouti]

<p>What scout class gets the most out of illusionary arm buff?</p>

[Noaani]

<p>Assuming no one has their DA capped, rangers do, by a mile.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>berserkers, the other scout.</p>

[tikasa]

<p>Rangers>Brawlers>Other Scouts>everyone else</p>

[Ama]

<p>I would have to say it's a tricky question.  Depends on alot of factors and usually an Assassin in my raid force that I was in for a short time got it.  After that I think it was a brigand or a swashy that wasn't maxed capped.  Rangers were non existant in the raid force or we rarely had them.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p>Summoner mage pet.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>Rangers > mythical bards > assasin > all else.</p><p>You have to look at who's autoattack hits the best and who has the highest % dps from auto attack.  The bards are often overlooked on this, but today, they have basically the same auto attack table as the predators if they have myth and the right specs.  Although, I hear a nasty rumor that tomorrow they get nerfed and this is no longer true.</p><p>All hail the [Removed for Content] sandwhich that is TSO.</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Rangers > mythical bards > assasin > all else.</p><p>You have to look at who's autoattack hits the best and who has the highest % dps from auto attack. </p></blockquote><p>Are you saying that a Mythical Bard is going to get more out of IA than will a Mythical Assassin, Brig, or Swashy?</p><p>Considering the second line of your post, I'd find that VERY difficult to believe.</p>

[corndog2451]

<p>Give the illy to the mage grp, give IA to the troubie, then u have a happy troub!</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Rangers > mythical bards > assasin > all else.</p><p>You have to look at who's autoattack hits the best and who has the highest % dps from auto attack. </p></blockquote><p>Are you saying that a Mythical Bard is going to get more out of IA than will a Mythical Assassin, Brig, or Swashy?</p><p>Considering the second line of your post, I'd find that VERY difficult to believe.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, put IA on a myth'd troub with proper spec/melee gear, and compare the dps differential between him and putting it on the assasin.</p><p>Er wait, you would have to do that tonight I believe to see it...</p>

[Geothe]

<p>Ranger>Assassin>Rogue>Bard</p><p>Rangers and Assassins are on a higher base damage table than other scouts (5% more damage base).Ranger does much more autoattack DPS than assassin.Rogues and Bards are on the same base damage autoattack table.However, Rogues have offensive stances so will have higher hit rates.In addition, Bards cast spells. and so will lose some autoattack hits due to cast times, where as Rogues just have CAs.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ranger>Assassin>Rogue>Bard</p><p>Rangers and Assassins are on a higher base damage table than other scouts (5% more damage base).Ranger does much more autoattack DPS than assassin.Rogues and Bards are on the same base damage autoattack table.However, Rogues have offensive stances so will have higher hit rates.In addition, Bards cast spells. and so will lose some autoattack hits due to cast times, where as Rogues just have CAs.</p></blockquote><p>Bards on same auto attack as predators with myth, this is being nerfed with TSO though.</p><p>Look at a decent troub's parse, you should see about 60% of their dps output from auto attack (go look at the pie's on flames).</p>

[Gareorn]

Rangers first, then Assassins. If your Illy isn't paired up with a Predator, then you really need to look at your groups again. If for some reason you have too many Illys on the raid, they can be paired up with just about any Scout as well as Brawlers, and even 2H weilding Crusaders. But I rarely see a situation where an Illy can't be grouped with a Predator.

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ranger>Assassin>Rogue>Bard</p><p>Rangers and Assassins are on a higher base damage table than other scouts (5% more damage base).Ranger does much more autoattack DPS than assassin.Rogues and Bards are on the same base damage autoattack table.However, Rogues have offensive stances so will have higher hit rates.In addition, Bards cast spells. and so will lose some autoattack hits due to cast times, where as Rogues just have CAs.</p></blockquote><p>Bards on same auto attack as predators with myth, this is being nerfed with TSO though.</p><p>Look at a decent troub's parse, you should see about 60% of their dps output from auto attack (go look at the pie's on flames).</p></blockquote><p>You are totally wrong.Fighters and Preds are on the same autoattack table.5% below them are Rogues/Bards.Then Priests.Then Mages.</p><p>About 1.5-2montsh ago in Beta, one of the Dirge AAs would of given them 25% increased base damage on autoattack (dirges, not troubs).  This AA was removed because it, coupled with the MYTHICAL proc on the dirge mythical would of made dirge DPS from autoattack simply disgusting.A mythicaled bard doesn't magically jump up in base damage though, never has.</p>

[surepaw]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Ranger>Assassin>Rogue>Bard</p><p>Rangers and Assassins are on a higher base damage table than other scouts (5% more damage base).Ranger does much more autoattack DPS than assassin.Rogues and Bards are on the same base damage autoattack table.However, Rogues have offensive stances so will have higher hit rates.In addition, Bards cast spells. and so will lose some autoattack hits due to cast times, where as Rogues just have CAs.</p></blockquote><p>/agree</p><p>Just to add,</p><p>Swashies also have Bravado, which when active increases auto attack a great deal and Perfect Finess, which when active again increases auto attack.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You are totally wrong.Fighters and Preds are on the same autoattack table.</p></blockquote><p>Nope, Preds and brawlers are, other fighters are not.</p>

[liveja]

<p><cite>surepaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Swashies also have Bravado, which when active increases auto attack a great deal and Perfect Finess, which when active again increases auto attack.</p></blockquote><p>Not to mention Inspiration, & with multiple mobs, Hurricane as well.</p>

[Soulforged]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You are totally wrong.Fighters and Preds are on the same autoattack table.</p></blockquote><p>A ranger will be expecting 50-60% of their DPS from auto attack, while an assassin will be expecting mid 30s from auto attack. That's the same auto-attack table how?</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You are totally wrong.Fighters and Preds are on the same autoattack table.</p></blockquote><p>Nope, Preds and brawlers are, other fighters are not.</p></blockquote><p>Wrong again.</p><p>Aeralik even posted on the Beta boards that all fighters are on the same autoattack damage table, and that Predators are equal with them.</p><p>Soulforged:They are on the same autoattack damage table. That means if they equip the same weapon, with even mods, they will do exactly the same damage, and that damage will be 5% higher than what a Rogue or Bard would do with with the exact same weapon and mods.Autoattack damage tables have no relation what-so-ever to damage distribution.</p>

[gatrm]

<p>Base it on the individual, not the class.  If an assassin is spamming CAs and only doing 20% of their damage from autoattack, then IA won't be as good for them as it will for a dirge doing 60% of their damage from autoattack.  Don't be a robot and automatically put the buff on the same class.  Check ACT and put it on the person for whom it gives the most additional dps.   Sure, it takes some testing, but assuming your raidforce isn't continually changing, you'll figure out the order of who it's best for soon enough. </p><p>From my experience most assassins and rogues autoattack damage will be from 35-45% of their dps.  Rangers are more like 70% and bards are around 60%.  Most fighters, unless they are spamming CAs/Spells will generally be around 50%</p><p>Of course weapons, stats, and skill play a part, and IA will not be as effective on anyone, regardless of class, who is just spamming CAs/spells.</p>

[Treznet]

<p><cite>gatrm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Base it on the individual, not the class.  If an assassin is spamming CAs and only doing 20% of their damage from autoattack, then IA won't be as good for them as it will for a dirge doing 60% of their damage from autoattack.  Don't be a robot and automatically put the buff on the same class.  Check ACT and put it on the person for whom it gives the most additional dps.   Sure, it takes some testing, but assuming your raidforce isn't continually changing, you'll figure out the order of who it's best for soon enough. </p><p>From my experience most assassins and rogues autoattack damage will be from 35-45% of their dps.  Rangers are more like 70% and bards are around 60%.  Most fighters, unless they are spamming CAs/Spells will generally be around 50%</p><p>Of course weapons, stats, and skill play a part, and IA will not be as effective on anyone, regardless of class, who is just spamming CAs/spells.</p></blockquote><p>The % of the dps means nothing, the amount of auto attack dps is what do look at. Ranger is the best. Im not sure what rogues youve seen but most have 55-60% of their damage being auto attack damage.  assassins for the most part have a higher parse. So obviously 35-40% of thier damage being auto attack is close to same as rogues dps from auto attack. So I would say rogues would benifit slightly more than an assassin but I think it would be very close to even. Our brawlers also do very close to the same auto attack dps as rogues and Dirges not to far behind. I dont think any of those classes that puts out respectable melee dps would be a bad choice for IA. People just always asume assassin is the best choice. but if you had to put an order to it I would say ranger/rogue/brawler/assassin/bard. I really think the melee classes are very close and the difference between them would be minimal.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wrong again.</p><p>Aeralik even posted on the Beta boards that all fighters are on the same autoattack damage table, and that Predators are equal with them.</p></blockquote><p>Hmm, parsing doesn't seem to support that.  Perhaps this is something that is changed with TSO?</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Wrong again.</p><p>Aeralik even posted on the Beta boards that all fighters are on the same autoattack damage table, and that Predators are equal with them.</p></blockquote><p>Hmm, parsing doesn't seem to support that.  Perhaps this is something that is changed with TSO?</p></blockquote><p><table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="100%"><form action="/eq2/posts/doModeration.m" accept-charset="UNKNOWN" enctype="application/x-www-form-urlencoded" method="post"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2"><div><div>10/20/2008 16:07:14</div><div>    <strong>Subject:</strong> <a name="4827025">Re:Where is the DPS? (Monk/Bruiser)</a></div><div><a class="icon_reply_sm" rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/insert.m?topicId=432725&forumId=2649&start=45"><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/transp.gif" /></a> <a class="icon_quote" rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/quote.m?postId=4827025&start=45"><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/transp.gif" /></a> <a class="nav" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/#top"><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/styles/EQ2/eq2_default/images/common/icon_up.gif" /></a></div></div></td></tr><tr><td rowspan="3" align="left" valign="top"><div><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/icons/soe.gif" border="0" /> <span ><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/user/profile.m?user_id=242118"><strong><span style="font-size: x-small; color: #ff0000;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Aeralik</span></span></strong></a></span></div><span style="font-size: xx-small;"><span ><span style="color: #afc2d2;">Mechanics Guy <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/avatar/EQ2/base/assassin.gif" border="0" /> Joined: Feb 9, 2006Messages: 878</span><span ><span style="color: #ff0000;">Offline </span></span></span></span></td><td valign="top"><span ><span style="color: #d2c5a9;">All fighters do use the same base auto attack modifiers and share that with predators.  The rogues and bards are slightly less and I mean slightly.  Brawlers do have the highest base hit point modifier followed by warriors and then crusaders.  Again the differences are relatively small though and easily overcome by race, character traits, gear, spells or achievements which is probably why you see more guardians at the top.</span></span> <span ><span style="color: #d2c5a9;">Message edited by Aeralik on <span >10/20/2008 16:13:19</span>.</span></span></td></tr></tbody></form></table></p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=45&topic_id=432725">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=432725</a></p>

[Yimway]

<p>I'm sorry, but when I think of Auto Attack modifier, it would be the combination of both items mentioned by Aeralik. In essence the parse dps output from autoattack given same stats / bonuses from gear (To-hit + Dmg Modifier = Net Auto Mod).</p><p>One class could have an insanely high 'Dmg Modifier' while being the lowest 'To-Hit' modifer and their net autoattack effectiveness would not be the better than someone with less DMG, and more To-Hit.  Only by looking at the net affect from both can you compare the base auto attack between the classes.</p>

[Geothe]

<p>You're looking at the net autoattack parse DPS.That is not the same thing as the base damage.</p><p>Take a bard, a pred, a brawler, and a plate tank.If you give them all the exact same weapon, the same strength, and the same DPS mod and did a /weapon stats, what you would see is:</p><p>Bard:  x to y damage.Rogue:  x to y damage.Pred:  1.05*x to 1.05*y damageBrawler: 1.05*x to 1.05*y damagePlatetank: 1.05*x to 1.05*y damage</p><p>that is the -base- damage bonus fighters and preds recieve.  Likewise, Priests would do slighly less than x to y and mages even slightly more less than x to y.</p><p>The base autoattack modifier for Preds/fighters is a 5% bonus over Rogue/Bards.</p>

[Sprin]

<p>Well its usually a "tel-a-thon" when you start getting into groups, of everyone asking for IA and who should get it more... Sony should put out an official A to Z list of who benefits more, so i can just refer all the "haters" to that list when i put it on someone else over them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>And i have yet to meet a Swashy that understands why i put it on a ranger over them.... they all seem to get mad... but Ranger always gets IA if they in the group... and yes, with if the trouby is alone in the mage group with me, he gets a nice lil' boost to all his stats... especially if i feel nice and give him TC for "the good of the raid for his Raid wide POTM"... its nice to give back to support classes once in a while.. a mythical trouby with IA, TC, rapidity with the DA boost, and some tandem to go along with it and thats a trouby you will see on the parse...... Though with Illy, its always give give give, and not much take...  Thats one of the hardest steps to get through as an illy, grouping pre mythical and not being able to use your personae or other buffs that would benefit you because you have a group full of parse h0e$ that want all your concentration slots filled with Rapidity and tandem to boost their DPS and you look like a jerk if you actually, god forbid want to do some DPS'n yourself...  </p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Sprinng@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well its usually a "tel-a-thon" when you start getting into groups, of everyone asking for IA and who should get it more... Sony should put out an official A to Z list of who benefits more, so i can just refer all the "haters" to that list when i put it on someone else over them <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>And i have yet to meet a Swashy that understands why i put it on a ranger over them.... they all seem to get mad... but Ranger always gets IA if they in the group... and yes, with if the trouby is alone in the mage group with me, he gets a nice lil' boost to all his stats... especially if i feel nice and give him TC for "the good of the raid for his Raid wide POTM"... its nice to give back to support classes once in a while.. a mythical trouby with IA, TC, rapidity with the DA boost, and some tandem to go along with it and thats a trouby you will see on the parse...... Though with Illy, its always give give give, and not much take...  Thats one of the hardest steps to get through as an illy, grouping pre mythical and not being able to use your personae or other buffs that would benefit you because you have a group full of parse h0e$ that want all your concentration slots filled with Rapidity and tandem to boost their DPS and you look like a jerk if you actually, god forbid want to do some DPS'n yourself...  </p></blockquote><p>You can answer this yourself though.  Let them parse a fight without it, go open up each player and look at their outgoing.  cast on the person who's highest % of dps was from auto attack swings.</p><p>In my experience, thats still ranger > bard > assasin> roges.  Maybe my bards are just 'better'.</p>

[Soulforged]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You can answer this yourself though.  Let them parse a fight without it, go open up each player and look at their outgoing.  cast on the person who's highest % of dps was from auto attack swings.</p><p>In my experience, thats still ranger > bard > assasin> roges.  Maybe my bards are just 'better'.</p></blockquote><p>Technically though....if someones dps % from auto attack is so high...it could be that they are horrible or horribly lazy <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>