To the current Zerk tanks (or any upcoming)

[jimmyquinella]

<p>My guild, Nex Inimicis of the Butcherblock server recently cleared VP.  Why I bring it up here, is to point out the enitre progession was achieved using a Berserker as the MT. ( This would be me, BTW ).</p><p>When our Guardian quit at the beginning of this process, (Thuuga), I stepped in and became the MT and remained so during every step of the raiding schedule. Using a Paladin as the OT, and many great players supporting the group, we stayed true to the goal and entered VP with no Mythicals, gaining them with each named death.</p><p>I point this out, not to brag, but to show the possiblities that are available if a person can play his class correctly and has a great group of people to work with. Do not let anyone tell you what your class or you can do.</p><p>Would it have been easier with a Guardian? I'm sure it would have.</p><p>We were not the fastest ( approx. 7 months from T1- clear VP), or the best ( Working Trak currently ), but we still did it and I just wanted to share that with any newer raid inspiring players.</p><p>Thanks,</p><p> Jimbolini - 80 Berserker</p><p> Main Tank - Nex Inimicis - Butcherblock</p>

[Gisallo]

<p>Hey Jimbolini.  Few if any here have ever sad "we can't do this."  I think it has been more of an issue of "will anyone ever let us try?"  You look at the abilities of a class and some people will simply say "on paper A is better so we are going with A".  My guild for the longest time used an SK to go into VP (he has recently left) and I have seen our ranger parse just about as well as our assassins and with fewer deaths because he can joust back and save his a** more easily while still dpsing, so clearly gear and the player behind the toon are at least as important.  If however you find yourself alone and looking for a guild, at least in the recent past, they have said "Guild X recruiting need Guardian and Y" thanks to the "on paper" impression.</p><p>If you are rarely even given a chance, its easy to see why one could feel a tad down about your class. </p>

[jimmyquinella]

<p>You make a good point.</p><p>Over the years (I have ran this toon since launch), I have run into several players that have told me " I didn't know our class could do that" or " I was told we weren't capable of that".</p><p>I do know that newer players tend to review these forums, as I also know the frusteration of trying to find a raiding guild when not one of the "Chosen" classes. I am hoping any Guilds that are hurting for MT's, see this and realize that anything within the current game development can be accomplished with a Berserker as main tank.</p><p>Jimbolini</p>

[Curs3]

<p>not just the forums, its majority ingame.   What i found out fast is not to listen to someone talk about berserkers if they have yet to get one to 80 and actually use it properly.  Doing this philosophy basically shunt the naysayers down in an exact situation such as years.  except our guard didnt leave, i just got fed up with the talking crap about zerkers so when he died i just kept being mt.</p><p>All i can say is dont listen to anyone who isnt a berserker themselves because they can not have a valid opinion on anything.</p><p></rant></p>

[LygerT]

<p>it's easier to clear a new zone the first time in with a guardian MT than a zerk, both players having equal skill, which is why <em>most </em>guilds choose to just go with the better tank archtype. we can do the job just fine but with more headache and pain involved.</p>

[jimmyquinella]

<p>I do not disagree Lyger, but I personally never found a time from T1- VP that a problem came up in which a Guard would have made anything easier. If it was harder on my healers, they never showed it or complained.</p><p>The possible exception was using 4 healers on Drusshk initially, any other time usually ended up being a goof up on someones part in which the MT class wouldnt come into play.</p><p>Again, not saying your incorrect, but when I am geared most Guards have approx 1k more HP and a easier time with snap aggro. (which isnt an issue if I dont die) <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I guess I never really saw the big problems that we claimed to have in which Guards could easily replace.</p><p>I also state that I have not killed Trak or Byzola, so I cannot speak on those mobs.</p><p>Jimbolini</p>

[Slayer505]

<p>To the OP, you're not alone, though there are very few of us out there.  I've been MT for my guild for all of Tier 8 and we've cleared all content.  We're on our second Guardian OT this expansion, but I've been MT the whole time. </p><p>Hopefully with the upcoming changes in TSO and the playing field being much more even then before, there will be more guilds willing to give Berserkers and the other plate tanks a shot instead of the "all Guardian, all the time" mentality most guilds have these days.</p>

[Dragori]

<p>I started to play EQ2 recently. I was happy that there's the guardian as the (raid) main tank class for players who want to play a pure tank. I liked to see the EQ1 warrior in this role and I hated to see that this role doesn't exist in Vanguard <span style="font-size: xx-small; color: #c0c0c0;">(one reason why i quit).</span></p><p>I decided to make a berserker and wanted to raise him to level 60-70 and betray to guardian to play a main tank.</p><p>Well, actually I like my berserker too much now.</p><p>The (AE) damage output is very nice and I like the style of berserker tanking. If EQ2 offtank content  in the raid game is nearly as challenging than in EQ1 and if the berserker will keep advantages over the guardian there  I will be happy with this role. The group game  tanking is pretty balanced with <em>AE agro/dps tank</em> vs <em>single target agro/protecting tank</em> in my opinion.</p><p>My point is that guardian and berserker are balanced in a way that it is very hard for me to decide which one I want to play right now.</p><p>It's cool that berserker can tank any raid content. But if a guardian cannot do it significantly better vs single hard hitting boss mobs I don't see any reason to play a guardian.</p><p>I appreciate class development in the direction of a stronger offtank berserker <span style="font-size: xx-small; color: #c0c0c0;">(No1 offtank actually! because knights get more utility and soloability)</span> as the raid role and a stronger guardian maintank assuming the content developement works hand in hand with this approach.</p><p>All plate tanks should perform equally well vs heroic content as the main tank for the group.</p>

[LygerT]

<p><cite>jimmyquinella wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do not disagree Lyger, but I personally never found a time from T1- VP that a problem came up in which a Guard would have made anything easier. If it was harder on my healers, they never showed it or complained.</p><p>The possible exception was using 4 healers on Drusshk initially, any other time usually ended up being a goof up on someones part in which the MT class wouldnt come into play.</p><p>Again, not saying your incorrect, but when I am geared most Guards have approx 1k more HP and a easier time with snap aggro. (which isnt an issue if I dont die) <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I guess I never really saw the big problems that we claimed to have in which Guards could easily replace.</p><p>I also state that I have not killed Trak or Byzola, so I cannot speak on those mobs.</p><p>Jimbolini</p></blockquote><p>of course any MT is going to live with 4 healers.. even a brawler. believe me, guards were better clearing zones first time around in RoK.</p><p>besides, don't give the guards on beta more ammo to shoot at us that they don't need. they're still better defensive tanks but now they are claiming we are superior in every way shape and form which is simply false.</p>

[Aull]

<p>What is/are things that are outstanding for zerkers come tso? All I am basically reading is meh stuff (loss of DA and repostie). Seems that most zerkers are either not liking the changes or are just complacent and don't care with them, but none that I have read are excited. Are there any abilities that make you beta testers pleased at with what will become?</p><p>Sk's seemed pleased with their upcoming changes anyway.</p>

[Obadiah]

<p><cite>Aull wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What is/are things that are outstanding for zerkers come tso? All I am basically reading is meh stuff (loss of DA and repostie). Seems that most zerkers are either not liking the changes or are just complacent and don't care with them, but none that I have read are excited. Are there any abilities that make you beta testers pleased at with what will become?</p><p>Sk's seemed pleased with their upcoming changes anyway.</p></blockquote><p>Some good some bad.</p><p>Loss of DA and uncontested avoidance, sure, that's a loss. The ability to use a Tower Shield once again is nice though.</p><p>Some shortened cast times on AoE abilities. Not a HUGE deal, but it's nice. Some decent looking AA. Looks like Jewel of Animosity is no longer usable so I have to loot a ring one of these days. Regen abilities replaced by stuff that actually does something, even if the main one is a tad weak. Some other nice EoF tree changes. Mostly positive stuff, I think, but yeah I'm not nearly as elated as our SK. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /> (Well, SK turned Paladin soon to be SK again....)</p><p>Biggest thing IMO is how much of the heroic instances are multiple mobs. A far cry from RoK's release in which the only such instance was VoES. Don't know aboiut raids, but from what I've read it looks like nothing changes there. Single target stuff, but still some fights with OT duties. Don't quote me.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>zerks will be more viable main tanks but guard is still superior, we gained and lost some AE dps so that is a push. SKs seem to be doing more AE dps than us now so offtanks will have another class to contend with for offtank, though it seems they are changing paladin amends so that will be 1 less class to compete with.</p><p>as it sits, we have a few more defensive abilities to help us do our job but overall there really has been little change for us, which is fair since we were decent at what we do even before TSO, just lacked the content to be wanted and even in TSO it still seems to be more leaning at heroic instances instead of raid.</p><p>there's nothing really to get super excited about, other classes have been brought more in line with us which means they will have to work harder for their spot or be replaced by someone with more actual skill. nothing to really be excited about unless you really wanted a better shot at being a MT is about it.</p>

[Aull]

<p>Thanks for the replies guys. I have always felt that my sk did a solid job in ae damage as long as the fight would allow those ae dots to do their job. </p><p>My zerk is no raid tank but I do enjoy a dungeon crawl and for what I am gathering sk's will now be the ae, dps, utility, solo type of tank that supercedes the zerker in all those categories.</p><p> I am a believer in player skill makes a huge difference but if all is equal the sk as a class should be superior or am I wrong?</p><p>Thanks again.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>i don't know about <em>all </em>of those categories, that's not what i said.</p>

[Xita]

<p>btw gratz Jimbo!</p><p>(from the other Zerker raid tank on BB...)</p>

[Aull]

<p>Well the info that I read or see the most are players who seem very displeased with the zerker class. I for one have enjoyed mine and my only complaint would be the lack of snap aggro. Again I mostly do instance runs with my zerker when I am playing him and I have only tanked two raids when our pally wasn't present but that was long ago. I by no means have tanked enough raids to say other wise about how zerkers are in that setting.</p><p>Thanks again for your help.</p>

[Anfauglith]

<p>The main differences for zerker/guard:</p><p>Guard: 1 more snap aggro, a bit more viability on pulls due to ToS</p><p>Zerker: a bit more ae dps when not tanking (means a bit more ae aggro too)...a LOT more when viability isn't of any problem...in RoK this advantage was barely ever usefull...in ToS it'll become a lot more usefull...</p><p>I'm not making any comment about the changes set items or mythicals do to differenciate both classes, because would be itemization problems and not class definition ones.</p>

[jimmyquinella]

<p>Thanks Xita, not that many on our server. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Wilin]

<p><cite>Onucia@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The main differences for zerker/guard:</p><p>Guard: 1 more snap aggro, a bit more viability on pulls due to ToS</p></blockquote><p>The above is only true for pre-TSO with no mythicals.</p>