Assassin, the right fit? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Bomadil

11-06-2008, 03:16 PM

I realize that dozens (or more) of these posts already exist, and I really hate to have to be the guy to make another one, but let me explain my situation a bit more before the flamings begin <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />I beta tested EQ2, and played it pretty hard for a few months just after release (most likely so long because of the nostalgia still remaining from my years and years on EQ1). Unfortunately, the game at that stage had too many issues, and I slowly lost interest and moved on to other games for a while.Currently: My brother and I are currently deployed to Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. I've been placed in a rather remote area, with very limited internet access (more or less limited to messengers and websites), where-as my brother lucked out and is on a much larger base where he managed to get internet in his room. For the past 8 months he's spent his down time having a blast on EQ2, and has already managed to level a berserker to 80.Since it seems that all the issues I had with the original release have been polished out, I'm going to have another go at it in march, when we finally return to the states.-- Now, with all that said, between him and our other friends we have a tank (zerker), bard (dirge), support (coercer), and the newest addition is a shaman (defiler). That leaves me to fill the dps role, which is more than fine with me.I've spent quite a bit of my 'free' time lately reading up on all the dps classes. I've narrowed it down to three possibilities; Assassin, Brigand, or Swashy. I'm leaning more toward Assassin at this point, because what our little crew needs most from me is obviously a high amount of dps. I do have a few concerns that I'd like to have alleviated before I finalize my decision...1: Assassins are (from what I read), currently the highest parsing single-target dps class. I've also read that they're getting a fair draw in the TSO expansion, so this question is more for reassurance than actual concern, but... Q: Will Assassins still be the go-to guy for serious damage after everyone has the new AAs/gear?2: Again, damage output is my primary concern, but according to some claims I've read in their respective forums, Rogues can come close to an Assassin's overall dps, but bring more utility and have an easier time solo'ing... Q: Do the debuffs that Rogues bring to the table offset the difference in dps for endgame grouping/raiding?3: Sorta related to the last question, but... Q: As an Assassin, should my group of friends be MIA for whatever reason, will I have a harder time getting a group spot than a Swashy/Brigand?I greatly appreciate your feedback and opinions, and believe me, I wouldn't have made one of these posts if I wasn't so close to making a decision.Sorry if any optical bleeding resulted from having to trudge through this post, but rest assured that its for a good cause =)-BomadilTLDR: I'm currently deployed over seas. When I return home, I'm going to be playing EQ2 with my brother and friends. All bases are covered except dps. I've settled between Assassin, Brigand or Swashy (Assassin being preferred). Looking to have a few concerns alleviated before I mark the Rogues off my list of possibilities.

Tamo

11-06-2008, 04:00 PM

If you're looking to put up high dps either of those three bring good numbers, but:The brigand will up the groups dps more because of its defensive debuffs.The swash will keep the tank from getting wailed on because of its offensive skill reductions.The assassin... seems to be just pure dps with a hate xfer. So if your group needs the debuffs pick a rogue, if not just take the assassin and have funIf you want high numbers on raids I would take swash or assassin, but its not an easy mode thing for either class. If you suck, it will show.

Bomadil

11-06-2008, 04:42 PM

<cite>Bartlby@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you're looking to put up high dps either of those three bring good numbers, but:The brigand will up the groups dps more because of its defensive debuffs.The swash will keep the tank from getting wailed on because of its offensive skill reductions.The assassin... seems to be just pure dps with a hate xfer. So if your group needs the debuffs pick a rogue, if not just take the assassin and have funIf you want high numbers on raids I would take swash or assassin, but its not an easy mode thing for either class. If you suck, it will show. </blockquote>Awesome, I wasn't expecting a response so soon =)What degree of difference in damage is there between them on single-target mobs, and exactly how big of an influence are the debuffs that rogues bring? (I really have zero experiance with scouts, and none of the posts I've found are very specific on the magnitude of the debuffs, just that they're a factor).On a side-note, I've been gaming (perhaps in excess) since 1999. Skill requirement and learning curves for a class aren't a deterrent. In fact, having to challenge myself with a class is really what keeps things interesting. =D

surepaw

11-06-2008, 05:55 PM

<cite>Bomadil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bartlby@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you're looking to put up high dps either of those three bring good numbers, but:The brigand will up the groups dps more because of its defensive debuffs.The swash will keep the tank from getting wailed on because of its offensive skill reductions.The assassin... seems to be just pure dps with a hate xfer. So if your group needs the debuffs pick a rogue, if not just take the assassin and have funIf you want high numbers on raids I would take swash or assassin, but its not an easy mode thing for either class. If you suck, it will show.</blockquote>Awesome, I wasn't expecting a response so soon =)What degree of difference in damage is there between them on single-target mobs, and exactly how big of an influence are the debuffs that rogues bring? (I really have zero experiance with scouts, and none of the posts I've found are very specific on the magnitude of the debuffs, just that they're a factor).On a side-note, I've been gaming (perhaps in excess) since 1999. Skill requirement and learning curves for a class aren't a deterrent. In fact, having to challenge myself with a class is really what keeps things interesting. =D</blockquote>First, I have a swashy and an assassin, but to be honest I am biased to my swashy, With that said I will go on.The difference in damage depends on the fight really. An assassin can put up big numbers with certain attacks, if those attacks are up and the fight lasts long enough. They can one shot many heroic or lower mobs. A VP assassin in ROK in a raid can have DPS at 10K+. They are by far the king of DPS, but as stated, they are mostly only DPS. I have heard that TSO Assassins in beta have put out 14K+ in raids.Groups are a little different, but many non-VP assassins in a group, at lvl 80, with good equipment, can spec 5k+ DPS at times. Most spec around 3-4K DPS tho.A VP swashy can put out 9K+ DPS. This is great DPS, but with their debuffs they do much more then just DPS. Their offensive debuffs can save the tank from getting hit so hard the healer(s) can't keep up. Their hate transfer is unmatched. Their utilities are awsome.In groups with heroic mobs and below a good equiped swashy can put out about 4k+ DPS if they know their character. Most of the time tho a good swashy puts out 2000-3500 DPS.As for solo, an assassin is not as good as a swashy or a brig basically because most assassin attacks are from behind, and that is just hard to constantly do solo. This is not to say an assassin is a bad soloer, they just have more difficulty then a rogue.The brig can do more damage then a swashy if given the oppertunity, but they lack a hate transfer. because of this most brigs cannot open it up and do massive DPS as they will often yank the mob away from the tank. Brigs tend to stun the mob more then a swashy and their debuffs are more defensive, so you can kill the mob faster.A VP brig can do about 8-9k DPS in a VP raid. In a group, a good brig can do about 2-4k DPS. They are usually just below or just above the swashy in DPS, depends on the players. But like I said above, they have no hate transfer, so they learn to watch their DPS to not take the mob. If a pally is in the group and has amends they can open up more, or if their is a swashy or assassin in the group who has a hate transfer they can open up more and not have to fear yanking agg so much.It depends on the fight. sometimes a swashy or brig can beat an assassin in one fight, but the assassin will come up on top in almost all fights. My swashy has put up better numbers then many a bad assassins, but an assassin that knows how to play their toon will beat me almost every time. I get my jabs in now and then, but at the end of the fight my swashy is #2 at best on the parse against a good assassin.It really depends on what kind of character you want, if you are after numbers, the assassin is the toon for you. They are great at DPS, the best by far. If you want high DPS and some debuff as well, swashy or brig bring the package deal.Again, I am biased towards the swashy, but I have tried to be unbiased in the post. Hope others can give you a better feel of each character.

Bomadil

11-06-2008, 06:15 PM

Tons of great information Surepaw. More thorough than I'd dare hope for actually.It looks like the Assassin is giving up the debuffs for ~10% extra dps and a decent hate transfer. I've known from the start that if I went Assassin, I'd be giving up some solo prowess over the beefier Rogue cousins, but it doesn't seem like it makes it impossible either.For the above mentioned group, through current content, how much of a difference would the Rogue debuffs bring to the table? Assume that all 5 of us are top-notch, and we manage to fill the 6th with someone who can at least face-roll decently.From the information given here, and from some further reading, I'm more or less down to Swashy or Assassin.Keep the information coming please <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

surepaw

11-07-2008, 02:10 PM

So you have narrowed it down to swash or assassin. Tough choice.OK, being you are going to have a dirge in the group, that is going to help both the swash and the assassin with raising their DPS, so the bard is moot for this choice.You will have a coercer, that will help. That will lean more in favor of the assassin then the swashy only because a swashy has a mild mez that can be used in emergency circumstances or when soloing, the assassin does not, point assassin.You have a zerker. A great DPS tank, but not always great in keeping agg from a high DPS scout. Both the swashy and the assassin have good hate transfers. The swashy tho has a master 2 choice at lvl 64 for a hate transfer (and it is the last hate transfer they get through 80) that allows them to transfer 19% of their hate to the tank. If you choose to add some or all of the int AA line you have agg buffs that help alot to. With the combo you rairly take agg and can open up with full DPS with little fear od taking it from the zerker. The assassin may have some difficulties controling the agg even with his hate transfer if he opens up full DPS with a zerker. Also, if the defiler puts up a eard or heals at the wrong moment, or has to heal too much, he may, and probably will take agg. The swashy has a CA at lvl 80 that allows him to switch hate from one person to him, or vice versa. This actually does not work like that real well, but it does yank hate, like a rescue for a tank. The swashy can yank the hate from the healer, or coercer for that matter, and use their hate transfer and hate reduction ca's to give it back to the tank quickly. Point swashy.As you know, the assassin is king of DPS, taking down the mob fast is his job, point assassin.Sometimes you need invis in some areas, to get by trash, to pull a named mob and leave trash, whatever the reason. both the assassin and the swashy have invis, but the swashy ios one of only a few classes that have group invis. This can be a huge life saver and/or a time saver for the group. Not sure if coercer gets group invis like the illi, so this may be a moot point. Point swashy (maybe)Many times things go way wrong, tank pulls wrong mob, tank pulls too many mobs, someone is feared into some adds, adds pop on you during a fight, whatever. The point is something bad happens and the group wipes. Both the assassin and the swashy have evac, a life saver for a group when dung hits the fan. But when you are deep in a contested dungeon, and you evac, or wipe, you have start from point A all over again. A real painThe swashy, through AA's, has FD. You have to give up some DPS for this ability, but not much. This can save a groups butt from having to start from point A all over again as long as the swashy FD's in a safe spot. The FD is only for 30 seconds, it has a one minute recast, but it is 100% FD, no failures. Granted, you can become a tinckerer and get FD as well, but the recast is 30 minutes and it is not 100%, but when you get up in tinckering it gets close to 100%. The tinckerer FD also lasts longer then 30 seconds. point swashy (again, maybe).The dev who tweeks the classes for better or worse plays an assassin, point assassin!!!A swashy can, thru the Sta AA line, become a decent OT. If the MT dies, the swashy can fill in. If you need to OT a mob, the swashy can do that too. Like the int line where FD is, this will give up DPS, but again, if speced right not much. Point swashy.The assassin epic is designed for DPS, massive DPS. The swashy epic helps with DPS, but also helps to trasfer even more hate. point (depends on what you want, could be equal).edit: One more thing, with a dirge and a coercer, the hate transfer is a moot deal. There is a hate cap, and coercer and dirge both help with the transfer/gain of hate to the cap, so Brig may be back on the table. Just some info to chew on. I forgot to mention this earlier (actually I just plain forgot about the coercer hate transfer and the hate cap tbh), and it is an important bit of info for your situation. Of course this all assumes the dirge and coercer are firing on all cylinders, and from what you said they were. The assassins or swashies hate transfer would basically only back those 2 up if they were to faulter in anyway.This leaves only the DPS and utility options on the table. Hope I did not make things more complicated. I just thought about it and wanted to make sure you were informed of the hate cap.Hope this helps.

Brimestar

11-08-2008, 04:23 AM

Roll one on a PvP server for some good ole enjoyment of beating on your fellow player <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

zerkerANGST

11-08-2008, 12:50 PM

I was going to post and just say to roll a brigand. But I must say, with your group setup I have to direct you to another class.ZerkerDirgeCoercerDefilerA group like this, with only the 1 melee DPS class is wierd to fill the last 2 slots. If you had 2 people playing, 1 would have to go brig and the other assassin, as they would compliment one another. But with this...You stated your friends were all level 80, and you will probably attempt to join them a quickly as possible once you start. Leveling an assassin from 1 - 80 is like pulling teeth if you have no group. Both rogue classes are able to solo extremely well, and are fun to play. Once at 80 though, the differences between the classes and how they perform will really boil down to what your group needs, and with the setup as it is now, the only viable option is Swashbuckler.With the 1 healer, and a zerker as the tank, you want to reduce the mobs ability to deal damage to you. Being you and the zerker are the only melee DPS in the group, a brigand will not really serve you very well. The dirge participating in the group also means the brigand defense debuffs will not be as necissary, as the dirges buff melee hit rates and such.It's important to note that you have a 6th slot open. Finding a pick up scout to fill a roll is not difficult. Probably by the time you start playing they will have found an assassin or a brigand to roll with them already. Assuming that they don't find a swashbuckler first, it's highly recommended that you fill the 5th slot with a swashbuckler.

Winter12345

11-26-2008, 01:39 AM

Ah, I always love discussions like these, so I'll give as much feedback as I can as I've played both classes, lets begin the showdown!Swashy:Extremely great class with awesome debuffs and a MT king, so it's the one you need! Or is it? As you asked for a good dps char, swashes are one but maybe not the one you are looking for, as the main points are their AOE's they get, their increased damage offensive buffs their capability of being MT's in any group and their awesome cooperation with their groups, really edging up and spicing up fights as they'll make a Tank's job much more easier with their hate transfers stated before. They also have great dps, not as much as a sin but they still have debuffs that can help them with unloading loads of dps. And what makes them shine the most, like their brother brigands are their utility of unloading their stealth attacks and CA's, as none or very few of theirs require very little positioning, unlike the sin. Their flurries of attacks also play a great factor.Assasin:Pure, Pure dps, King of it all hands down, and will also immediatly fill your last slot hands down! Or will it? Even though you asked for a mainly dps class, which a sin easily qualifies for, many other aspects should be taken in for survivability and its role in a group. A good point other than just their dps for a sin are their aa lines. They are extremely awesome imo, and can easily make ur sin survive more if you choose to go down the wis line for a CA called smokebomb but that's a different topic. They have hate transfers like swashes, but fewer, however still extremely good. They are also a lot more relaxed in groups as it is much for easier for them to unload their major attacks as your zerker keeps taunting mobs for the extra hits, making them top swashes easily. Last but not least, you start getting better every level you get, starting with assassin's blade at lv 24 that does extreme damage to assasinate at lv 50 which is the most lethal series of attack you'll ever have if you choose sin, also adding tons of fun when you start seeing your power as you progress.The Choice...The choice. A very hard decession to make, but to be at my very honesty, and with all of my bias put aside, to not show any sort of favoritism to any of the two, your answer is in my most honesty of every choice I'd make so you won't do wrong is the Assassin. It as I've analyzed it fits your aspects and will be your dps present. The swash is good, but with a group you are putting together, nothing can be done with out dps.Ready to begin your Journey? So that's it! And have fun with your new Sin if you choose it! (Again this is just my opinion, I can see your doubt as you gave a very tough choice as both classes are very, very good. However that also shows that you really can nail down what is perfect! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />)P.S- I probably sounded corney in this whole post, meh did it cuz i was bored tbh =)

EgilSkallagrim

11-27-2008, 05:24 PM

I'd like to add a non-technical reason to choose the assassin or brigand (which might already be out of the picture).At least half of your group is made up of evil characters (defiler, coercer) and the other half could be evil aligned already, or with a little bit of work. I personally think that a swashbuckler hanging with a band of Freeportians (or Neriakans or even Gorowynians) just seems kind of silly. Swashbucklers are all about fighting for good. They're the 'Chaotic Good' freedom fighters of Norath. Think three musketeers. An assassin or brigand, on the other hand, would fit right in with that crew and make for a much more immerssive experience IMO.It's not that you couldn't explain off the swashbuckler as a slightly evil leaning neutral, but do you really want to bring fashion and grace to this particular table?

Tamo

11-29-2008, 02:12 PM

<cite>EgilSkallagrim wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd like to add a non-technical reason to choose the assassin or brigand (which might already be out of the picture).At least half of your group is made up of evil characters (defiler, coercer) and the other half could be evil aligned already, or with a little bit of work. I personally think that a swashbuckler hanging with a band of Freeportians (or Neriakans or even Gorowynians) just seems kind of silly. Swashbucklers are all about fighting for good. They're the 'Chaotic Good' freedom fighters of Norath. Think three musketeers. An assassin or brigand, on the other hand, would fit right in with that crew and make for a much more immerssive experience IMO.It's not that you couldn't explain off the swashbuckler as a slightly evil leaning neutral, but do you really want to bring fashion and grace to this particular table?</blockquote>Who cares if the swashy is from Qeynos? If you wanted you could just exile and solve the whole "RP" issue (even on PvP this isnt necessary anymore... evil swash ftw), but tbh, if you do enough DPS no one should care what city you're from... I know I don't.The swashbuckler hate xfer got changed from what I remember so the M2 is the same as M1, sucks yeah, but 18% is still good. The offensive debuffs.. AoE blocker and Traumatic Swipe make the swashy a valid spot for any group.Assassin or Swash... either one, if you take the time to play them well you (and your group) should be happy.

Arbreth

12-26-2008, 12:05 AM

I am wondering what Bombadil choose to be?As for the debate, I know an awesome Swashy, that for me is THE example of the class (and a Ratonga to boot).I also know a Brigand who is tank specced, and I would choose her over many others I have had to heal.I know, too, an Assasin that went for pure DPS and he does not leave much time for the rest of them to kill anything once he lets loose.So, my suggestion is actually for that 6th spot, get a Druid. If you are still looking for DPS - go Fury. Shamans and Druids work very well together (as a Mystic I usually get paired wonderfully with Wardens).Good luck, Bombadil, and I hope you make it home safely to play.