Ogres in general

[x82nd77]

<p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: georgia,palatino;">I have finally decided to put my two favorite things together... Ogres and Rangers. But I am left with a lack of knowledge on ogre history in regards to “going good".  Have there been any ogres in history that have left their empire for the greater good of Norrath? Do ogres have consciences? Do they feel bad about what they have done and what their ancestors have done? Has one ever felt shame in regards to the destruction they have brought or does their love for their creator and war block that?  In short do they have feelings or are they the perfect war machines Zek set out to make them?</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: georgia,palatino;"> </span></p> <p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: georgia,palatino;">Thanks for any advice, opinions or history.  </span></p>

[Oakleafe]

<p><span ><p>Dug this history of Ogres out of another post in this forum ...</p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;">History: Originally created by Rallos Zek as the perfect race, they had both extreme physical strength and extreme intellegence that surpassed most races that live on Norrath today, including the Erudites. When they discovered how to access other planes, they decided to invade them. Rallos Zek himself lead them into the Plane of Earth, where they captured the Rathe Council, brought them back to Norrath, and had each one executed. A mountain sprung up in the spot where each one was executed, giving creation to the Rathe Mountains. This act of malice brought upon the Curse of the Rathe on all Zekkian races. The ogres lost almost all thier intellegence, and thier good looks in the process. The Curse would eventually begin to wear off, and the Ogres would once again form a 2nd Rallosian Army, under the guidance of Rallos Zek. While trying to take over the whole continent of Antonica, they ended up ticking off both Brell Serilis and Cazic Thule for defiling thier races and temples. Cazic Thule unleashed the Green Mist, which killed off all of the ogres in the Rallosian Army. The only ogres that remained were the ones who were already living in Freeport (and fighting on thier side during the war) and a troop of ogres who were deep inside Guk, where the mist never reached them.</span></p><p>The way I look at it is that no creation is ever totally true to the Deities original purpose, at least none of those given a reasonable amount of intelligence.  With intelligence comes the ability to make choices and therefore decisions.  Obviously Ogres in an army-type situation would have a certain amount of that trooped out of them at the rank and file level, for obvious and sensible reasons.</p><p>However, the Ogres that remain are NOT in any army as such but are simply aligned to Freeport for historical reasons.  So, as they are intelligent, sentient beings they would have the ability of make choices that could certainly lead them to doing good.</p><p>As followers of Rallos Zek they would tend to believe (and I quote from Wikioedia here):</p><p>"<span style="color: #ffff00;">The heart of a true follower of Zek yearns for strength, courage, but above all, victory. They believe that the heat of battle is the only place and time where enlightenment can be gained, that the universe was formed by conflict and in conflict it will end, with the victors feasting upon the remains of their fallen enemy.</span>"</p><p>It would not be beyond the realms of possibility therefore to see an Ogre turned, so to speak, toward "good" by being defeated by a Qeynosian but who spared him his life (just an example).</p><p>From here just build your own story line ...  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>I know most players in-game still consider Ogres to be ignorant rather than intelligent, but that's not what the lore (as far as I can see) says - this lead me to having an Ogre mage. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p></span></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Technically, the ogres who already lived in Freeport and helped defend the city against the 2nd Rallosian Army were fighting for the greater good, (or rather, the lesser of two evils).</p><p>Ogres in general, however, are evil to the end. Only a select few exceptions such as Nurgg from the Ethernauts. Which reminds me: I know the stories don't really reflect it, but I wonder if the Ethernauts' stories took place after the ogres had been cursed? The Rallosian empire existed long before many other races inhabited Norrath.</p>

[Illine]

<p>Yeah and funny thing You can see a picture of Nurgg in the Queen's castle <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Yes. As I said, he is one of a few exceptions who have left a positive impact on the history of Norrath.</p><p>It's not unreasonable that anyone can befriend an ogre or raise one as thier own. <a href="http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=2731">Tiny Miller</a> was an ogre who the Miller family found abandoned out in West Karana and raised him as thier own child. He was one heck of a hard working farmer too.</p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

<p>Plus Boomba in Freeport in EQLive, who while not necessarily 'good' was not really evil either; she'd sell her wares to pretty much anyone. Plane of Knowledge had a contingent of Ogres as well (and all of the other races for that matter) who had no problem getting along with (almost) everyone else. And I know it's post-Split, but the Wayfarers guild that was the guide through LDoN and GoD in EQLive had more than a few ogres working in it for the greater good; you can find many of them on the Queen of Thorns, and in various wayfarer camps across old Norrath. I mentioned this on another thread on the EQLive boards, but IMO it applies here as well. IMO, the members of the race (no matter what race) who stay at home tend to be the ones most fanatical about their beliefs, and the most likely to shun outsiders. The ones who leave their home regions and see the bigger world(s) and planes, are the ones who realize things like the gods aren't really all powerful, and the othe races are not all bad (nor all good), and thus they become enlightened themselves, more open to new ideas and more likely to change their beliefs.</p>

[Coniaric]

<p>Not to forget the end of the Battle of Defiance, that brought almost total extinction to the ogre race. That should change beliefs of some ogre families that surivived the coming of the Greenmist. So why not.</p><p>Personal character history can be written whatever direction one want to go on.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Saroc_Luclin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Plus Boomba in Freeport in EQLive, who while not necessarily 'good' was not really evil either; she'd sell her wares to pretty much anyone. Plane of Knowledge had a contingent of Ogres as well (and all of the other races for that matter) who had no problem getting along with (almost) everyone else. And I know it's post-Split, but the Wayfarers guild that was the guide through LDoN and GoD in EQLive had more than a few ogres working in it for the greater good; you can find many of them on the Queen of Thorns, and in various wayfarer camps across old Norrath. I mentioned this on another thread on the EQLive boards, but IMO it applies here as well. IMO, the members of the race (no matter what race) who stay at home tend to be the ones most fanatical about their beliefs, and the most likely to shun outsiders. The ones who leave their home regions and see the bigger world(s) and planes, are the ones who realize things like the gods aren't really all powerful, and the othe races are not all bad (nor all good), and thus they become enlightened themselves, more open to new ideas and more likely to change their beliefs.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, but the Plane of Knowledge had a magical atmosphere that prevented any and all forms of combat from even being initiated, so of course the ogres would have to get along with others.</p><p>Also: Boomba was male in EQlive. :p</p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Saroc_Luclin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Plus Boomba in Freeport in EQLive, who while not necessarily 'good' was not really evil either; she'd sell her wares to pretty much anyone. Plane of Knowledge had a contingent of Ogres as well (and all of the other races for that matter) who had no problem getting along with (almost) everyone else. And I know it's post-Split, but the Wayfarers guild that was the guide through LDoN and GoD in EQLive had more than a few ogres working in it for the greater good; you can find many of them on the Queen of Thorns, and in various wayfarer camps across old Norrath. I mentioned this on another thread on the EQLive boards, but IMO it applies here as well. IMO, the members of the race (no matter what race) who stay at home tend to be the ones most fanatical about their beliefs, and the most likely to shun outsiders. The ones who leave their home regions and see the bigger world(s) and planes, are the ones who realize things like the gods aren't really all powerful, and the othe races are not all bad (nor all good), and thus they become enlightened themselves, more open to new ideas and more likely to change their beliefs.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, but the Plane of Knowledge had a magical atmosphere that prevented any and all forms of combat from even being initiated, so of course the ogres would have to get along with others.</p><p>Also:<strong> Boomba was male in EQlive. :p</strong></p></blockquote><p>My mistake. For some reason I thought he was female and I didn't both looking up Alla's to verify. (Then again I'm still positive Wuoshi is female despite everything else I read. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</p><p>As for PoK, while combat between visitors is disallowed, combat between residents IS allowed. If you go to the 'evil' quarter, to the Guild Masters, they randomly summon/call the guards from around town for duels. Sure it's mock combat, but it is still a form of combat. Considering you can train in PoK, I would have to imagine that mock combat is going on between your PC and the trainer and you just aren't seeing it either. (I'd have a hard time believing your skill in Kick can be raised just by someone TELLING you how to do it as opposed to showing you)</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Hmm. I forgot about that detail.</p>

[ke'la]

<p>Nurgg is not the only one that is following a more peaceful path(he only ever wanted to be a good Blacksmith). Also going to EF after TSO goes live you will run into an Orge who is following an all together more "loving" deity. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Technically, the ogres who already lived in Freeport and helped defend the city against the 2nd Rallosian Army were fighting for the greater good, (or rather, the lesser of two evils).</p><p>Ogres in general, however, are evil to the end. Only a select few exceptions such as Nurgg from the Ethernauts. Which reminds me: I know the stories don't really reflect it, but I wonder if the Ethernauts' stories took place after the ogres had been cursed? The Rallosian empire existed long before many other races inhabited Norrath.</p></blockquote><p>Based off of the Nurgg story given in LoN I'd have to conclude that the curse of the Rathe is in effect.</p>

[Meirril]

<p>Strangely, Ogres arn't motivated by "evil" as much as they are "conflict". They want to fight. They want to win. They want the glory and spoils of victory.</p><p>As long as the side they choose believes in combat, they should be happy. Fighting for the glory of Qeynos is just a valid as fighting for any other warlord. An Ogre that chooses to be a champion of good can easily find more than enough conflict to satisfy their bloodlust.</p><p>And then there is the rare ogre that takes up the path of enlightnment set forth by Master Wu. With the curse of the rathe lifted anything is possible.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Technically, the ogres who already lived in Freeport and helped defend the city against the 2nd Rallosian Army were fighting for the greater good, (or rather, the lesser of two evils).</p><p>Ogres in general, however, are evil to the end. Only a select few exceptions such as Nurgg from the Ethernauts. Which reminds me: I know the stories don't really reflect it, but I wonder if the Ethernauts' stories took place after the ogres had been cursed? The Rallosian empire existed long before many other races inhabited Norrath.</p></blockquote><p>Based off of the Nurgg story given in LoN I'd have to conclude that the curse of the Rathe is in effect.</p></blockquote><p>If it is in effect in that story it has long warn down to next to nothing... an Orge under the Curse of Rathe would not be able to make weopons out of any piece of metal without a forge(how they got away from the Trolls), and Nurgg himself has been one of the wiser of the group... wich I doupt would be the case if the curse was in full effect.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">The Ogre on the Zek Docks as well as the Dark Elf are both members of the Greenhoods (Qeynosian Organization) </span></p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>I'm seriously wondering why Ke'la is the only person I can't quote.</p><p>Anyways, Nurgg is an exceptional individual. As demonstrated by his monk-like combat technique which is several hundred years ahead of when Master Wu would first create the way of enlightnment. As such you have to make allowances for...interesting characters.</p><p>I'd draw more attention to the Ogre villagers, and even the shaman that slaughtered Nurgg's family. By the description given there it sounds like they are living in basically stone huts. That would strongly indicate that this is post-curse of the Rathe ogres.</p><p>Also let me point out that in the early stories Nurgg was slow to act, but determined. I would say that indicates wisdom, not intelligence. Intelligent people catch on quickly, but can often rush into doing unwise things. Wise people act slower so they can make sure they really understand the situation.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>I'm seriously wondering why Ke'la is the only person I can't quote.</p><p>Anyways, Nurgg is an exceptional individual. As demonstrated by his monk-like combat technique which is several hundred years ahead of when Master Wu would first create the way of enlightnment. As such you have to make allowances for...interesting characters.</p><p>I'd draw more attention to the Ogre villagers, and even the shaman that slaughtered Nurgg's family. By the description given there it sounds like they are living in basically stone huts. That would strongly indicate that this is post-curse of the Rathe ogres.</p><p>Also let me point out that in the early stories Nurgg was slow to act, but determined. I would say that indicates wisdom, not intelligence. Intelligent people catch on quickly, but can often rush into doing unwise things. Wise people act slower so they can make sure they really understand the situation.</p></blockquote><p>It's because he has an appostrophe in his name. Something about these boards won't let you quote him.</p><p>To be fair though, we don't know how the ogres lived before the Rathe Curse. They very well could have established stone huts and caves from the very beginning.</p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

<p>Well, in post-EQII EQLive we have some evidence of how they lived. Crescent Reach is an old Ogre city that was taken over by the Drakkin.And Toskirakk, <a href="http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/news_article.vm?id=51162&month=102008">the capital city of the Ogres</a> during the second Rallos war, has been added with the SoD expansion. We go back to just before the curse, so we can see the Ogres as they were at their peak, along with the pre-Ascended Tallon and Vallon Zek's.</p><p><a href="http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/images/news_images/sod/lore/sodearth19.jpg">Here is a pic of a pre-Cursed ogres</a> we see in Toskirakk I believe. (Haven't been hunting there yet myself)</p><p>Oh and on another note which would apply to EQII, the Ogres you see in Plane of Tactics can probably be considered pre-cursed Ogres as well, since they would have been shielded from the Rathe Curse on Norrath.</p>

[x82nd77]

<p></p> <p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: georgia,palatino;">Thank you all so much for this great conversation. As someone who loves ogres and plays one at every opportunity this has been an enlightening thread.  I appreciate the great information and have now done some research on Nurgg and feel better about my own story and where I am heading.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: georgia,palatino;"></span></p> <p><span style="font-size: large; font-family: georgia,palatino;">Thanks again and I look forward to whatever other info is shared here!</span></p>

[Zabjade]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>I'm seriously wondering why Ke'la is the only person I can't quote.</p><p>Anyways, Nurgg is an exceptional individual. As demonstrated by his monk-like combat technique which is several hundred years ahead of when Master Wu would first create the way of enlightnment. As such you have to make allowances for...interesting characters.</p><p>I'd draw more attention to the Ogre villagers, and even the shaman that slaughtered Nurgg's family. By the description given there it sounds like they are living in basically stone huts. That would strongly indicate that this is post-curse of the Rathe ogres.</p><p>Also let me point out that in the early stories Nurgg was slow to act, but determined. I would say that indicates wisdom, not intelligence. Intelligent people catch on quickly, but can often rush into doing unwise things. Wise people act slower so they can make sure they really understand the situation.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">I think it was more of a combonation of Nurgg, Zan Fi, and Tynn.  Wu is not the originator of the Monk Class.</span></p>

[DrkVsr]

<p><cite>Saroc_Luclin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><a href="http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/images/news_images/sod/lore/sodearth19.jpg">Here is a pic of a pre-Cursed ogres</a> we see in Toskirakk I believe. (Haven't been hunting there yet myself)</blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #993300; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">What are those two 'eyeballs' dangling from their cheeks?</span></p>

[Saroc_Luclin]

Could be. (Still haven't been there) Probably plucked from some slaves, and/or trophies.

[Cusashorn]

<p>Can't help but notice they're bald. Not unreasonable to have shaved soldiers and all, but the pre-curse ogres had full heads of hair, and often decorated it with battle trophies they pick up along the way. Braiding skulls and stuff like that.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>I'm seriously wondering why Ke'la is the only person I can't quote.</p><p>Anyways, Nurgg is an exceptional individual. As demonstrated by his monk-like combat technique which is several hundred years ahead of when Master Wu would first create the way of enlightnment. As such you have to make allowances for...interesting characters.</p><p>I'd draw more attention to the Ogre villagers, and even the shaman that slaughtered Nurgg's family. By the description given there it sounds like they are living in basically stone huts. That would strongly indicate that this is post-curse of the Rathe ogres.</p><p>Also let me point out that in the early stories Nurgg was slow to act, but determined. I would say that indicates wisdom, not intelligence. Intelligent people catch on quickly, but can often rush into doing unwise things. Wise people act slower so they can make sure they really understand the situation.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">I think it was more of a combonation of Nurgg, Zan Fi, and Tynn.  Wu is not the originator of the Monk Class.</span></p></blockquote><p>Has Nurgg been mentioned pre-ethernaughts in any monk lore? I thought he was a totally new character created specifically for this series?</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>I'm seriously wondering why Ke'la is the only person I can't quote.</p><p>Anyways, Nurgg is an exceptional individual. As demonstrated by his monk-like combat technique which is several hundred years ahead of when Master Wu would first create the way of enlightnment. As such you have to make allowances for...interesting characters.</p><p>I'd draw more attention to the Ogre villagers, and even the shaman that slaughtered Nurgg's family. By the description given there it sounds like they are living in basically stone huts. That would strongly indicate that this is post-curse of the Rathe ogres.</p><p>Also let me point out that in the early stories Nurgg was slow to act, but determined. I would say that indicates wisdom, not intelligence. Intelligent people catch on quickly, but can often rush into doing unwise things. Wise people act slower so they can make sure they really understand the situation.</p></blockquote><p>It's because he has an appostrophe in his name. Something about these boards won't let you quote him.</p><p>To be fair though, we don't know how the ogres lived before the Rathe Curse. They very well could have established stone huts and caves from the very beginning.</p></blockquote><p>I'm pretty sure no intelligent race would ever prefer living in stone huts.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Has Nurgg been mentioned pre-ethernaughts in any monk lore? I thought he was a totally new character created specifically for this series?</blockquote><p>Nope. Nurgg's very existance into EQ's lore was birthed right here with this expansion and the story of the Ethernauts. If there was any mention of him in monk lore, then I would think the developers would try to reflect that upon class choices for the ogre race and change directions of thier history by including a martial arts tribe of ogres who followed what Nurgg first started.</p><p>The only Ogre monk ever mentioned in Monk lore is Trunt, who was an ogre who held onto the essence of Earth for the Celestial Fists monk epic. He has no backstory other than that, so he was essentially just another NPC who's existance wasn't ment to be delved into.</p><p>We can't deny that Nurgg is a Brawler to say the least. To call him a Monk is kind of stretching it, as he just chooses to use his fists mostly for convenience sake. He doesn't show any focus toward achieving enlightenment, or keeping his body in top physical condition. Of course, with the unknown time-frames that pass between each new story, we don't know if he does or not. I don't think it's right to call him a Bruiser either, as he is wise enough to know when to fight, and his fighting style doesn't reflect what bruisers usually do: Fight dirty. Sure, Nurgg has attacked enemies in ways that would seem cheap, or inflict considerable pain, but I think he mostly saw opportunities to do so, or wasn't thinking about where the enemy was hit.</p><p>I would not doubt it if others in the past have chosen to use thier fists for combat once in a while, whether they wanted to or had to.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>I'm seriously wondering why Ke'la is the only person I can't quote.</p><p>Anyways, Nurgg is an exceptional individual. As demonstrated by his monk-like combat technique which is several hundred years ahead of when Master Wu would first create the way of enlightnment. As such you have to make allowances for...interesting characters.</p><p>I'd draw more attention to the Ogre villagers, and even the shaman that slaughtered Nurgg's family. By the description given there it sounds like they are living in basically stone huts. That would strongly indicate that this is post-curse of the Rathe ogres.</p><p>Also let me point out that in the early stories Nurgg was slow to act, but determined. I would say that indicates wisdom, not intelligence. Intelligent people catch on quickly, but can often rush into doing unwise things. Wise people act slower so they can make sure they really understand the situation.</p></blockquote><p>It's because he has an appostrophe in his name. Something about these boards won't let you quote him.</p><p>To be fair though, we don't know how the ogres lived before the Rathe Curse. They very well could have established stone huts and caves from the very beginning.</p></blockquote><p>I'm pretty sure no intelligent race would ever prefer living in stone huts.</p></blockquote><p>So the Native American's where not Intelligent? Nor say the Brittish or Romans or Greeks... you do know that Most people lived in "Stone Huts" of one type or another through out history... infact Wooden Structures where for the longest time consitered "Ruff" housing.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Actually I'm thinking Proto-Monk Brawler type. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">That possibly in the future that the three might come together each with their own experiences and refine the concepts with Humans an Iksar taking them back to their people.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Nurgg not doing the same, due to his status among the Orges. Possibly Trunt as an apprentice but that would be additional speculation. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Nurgg had his hands full as was  with the Ethernaughts. </span></p>

[DrkVsr]

<p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #993300; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">Don't remember ogres in EQ1 having hair, so maybe the ones in EQ2 are mutants <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Females had a little hair, but the males had nothing.. A few strands of hair if anything. It was described in a series of books from the Plane of Knowledge that the curse didn't affect the existing ogres, but thier offspring were hideously deformed, grew to be even stronger than they already were, barely grew any hair, and had an intellegence factor that would equal mental retardation in today's society.</p>

[DrkVsr]

<p><span style="font-size: medium; color: #993300; font-family: comic sans ms,sans-serif;">So hair is an indicator of intelligence/enlightenment? Or only amongst the ogres (as if that was the case, with all races Erudites would be dumber than a burnt pile of wood <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</span></p>

[Zabjade]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Females had a little hair, but the males had nothing.. A few strands of hair if anything. It was described in a series of books from the Plane of Knowledge that the curse didn't affect the existing ogres, but thier offspring were hideously deformed, grew to be even stronger than they already were, barely grew any hair, and had an intellegence factor that would equal mental retardation in today's society.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">BTW what is the status of the Curse now? I remember hearing that it was gone, is this true or not?</span></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Long gone.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Thought so.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">What is the average intelligence of an Ogre now? </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Do they play dumb to be underestimated?</span></p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Thought so.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">What is the average intelligence of an Ogre now? </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Do they play dumb to be underestimated?</span></p></blockquote><p>I think the status of Ogre's are similar to that of other races. Some are very smart and play dumb, some are dumb and play smart, and some are just dumb and some are just smart.</p><p>And while the curse has lifted I doupt they are anything close to the inteligence or "pirfect race" status that they had prior to the curse being placed on them, cause for one they are still deformed, and two it takes time to recover from a gentic dumbing down.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Using EQlive's stats, ogres had a base intellgence of 60. I would say that has gone up to aroung 67 or so, with 75 being the average.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Meaning they are on the road to recovery. </span></p>