Speeding up XP gain still MORE? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Thunderthyze

11-04-2008, 08:28 AM

<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=434843">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=434843</a>Quoted from the latest beta server patch notes:"All of your characters will now receive a 10% XP bonus for each character at the maximum level. (Up to 50% max). You’ll also receive a tradeskill XP bonus for each character at the maximum tradeskill level.Your current XP bonus will be displayed on the character selection screen.This XP bonus can be disabled on a per-character basis by right-clicking on the experience bar"I'm beginning to lose the will to live now this whole accelerated XP gain thing is also being extended to tradeskilling. No matter that you can turn off this feature it will still affect the game as a whole.

Kitsune286

11-04-2008, 09:37 AM

Oi.They put in the shut-off so people who don't want to speed through an option. Do you really socialize enough with the level 10 guy that you care if he's 50 the next week?

Lethe5683

11-04-2008, 10:43 AM

Finally tradeskill bonuses!

Faenril

11-04-2008, 10:51 AM

I think this is a MUCH better idea that the revamped XP curves from last LU. Especially if you can turn it off.

Andu

11-04-2008, 11:09 AM

The problem I'm finding with the enhanced XP curve is that you level at such a rate that your AA has no chance of keeping up. You outlevel areas before you've finished quest series, or more importantly, the named bosses go grey before you've had chance to encounter them. It leaves you with characters at level 70 that are pretty gimped in terms of AA and ineveitably you have to go back and do grey quests and the like to make up the ground.Ironically, the time it takes to do this totally mucks up the whole reason for putting the XP curves in, which was to speed up the time it takes to get to 70.Presumably, this further enhanced XP gani will only exacerbate this further.

Goldburg

11-04-2008, 11:13 AM

However they enabled a bonus AA system for people who back to old content and mentor while doing so. It's a non issue. AAs are easy to get and getting to the new 200 will be a peice of cake.The real worry should be the longevity of the new expansion not the rate of leveling or lack of AA xp.

NardacMM

11-04-2008, 11:15 AM

This is not a terrible idea. It only applies to those who have already levelled to 80. Those who have levelled multiple characters know that completing the same old quests is very tedious. It's not going to increase the number of level 80s running around the server at one time.. It only applies to those on the same account. It's not like we are going to have a bunch of noobs running around who levelled from 1 to 80 in 2 weeks and don't understand their character. If anything, it will give people who level up multiple characters a greater understanding of all classes and only improve group dynamics.Plus it keeps players playing. Better to have somebody levelling up a new character than canceling their account and making it even harder to find people to group with..

CrazyMoogle

11-04-2008, 11:57 AM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm beginning to lose the will to live now this whole accelerated XP gain thing is also being extended to tradeskilling. No matter that you can turn off this feature it will still affect the game as a whole. </blockquote>Oh brother.

CrazyMoogle

11-04-2008, 11:59 AM

<cite>Anduri wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem I'm finding with the enhanced XP curve is that you level at such a rate that your AA has no chance of keeping up. You outlevel areas before you've finished quest series, or more importantly, the named bosses go grey before you've had chance to encounter them. It leaves you with characters at level 70 that are pretty gimped in terms of AA and ineveitably you have to go back and do grey quests and the like to make up the ground.Ironically, the time it takes to do this totally mucks up the whole reason for putting the XP curves in, which was to speed up the time it takes to get to 70.Presumably, this further enhanced XP gani will only exacerbate this further.</blockquote>People who are bringing up alts now are still sitting around 130ish AAs by the time they go through the Kunark quests just the same as before. This hysteria is unwarranted.

Thunderthyze

11-04-2008, 11:59 AM

<cite>NardacMM wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is not a terrible idea. It only applies to those who have already levelled to 80. Those who have levelled multiple characters know that completing the same old quests is very tedious. </blockquote>Now you see I thought that. However, all you are going to do is have all the new blood getting overtaken by established players and getting so disillusioned that they will leave all the sooner.

Thunderthyze

11-04-2008, 12:01 PM

<cite>Khayleigh@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm beginning to lose the will to live now this whole accelerated XP gain thing is also being extended to tradeskilling. No matter that you can turn off this feature it will still affect the game as a whole. </blockquote>Oh brother.</blockquote>Way to present constructive argument. Oh sorry, I forgot this is what you do.

Yimway

11-04-2008, 12:08 PM

<cite>Anduri wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem I'm finding with the enhanced XP curve is that you level at such a rate that your AA has no chance of keeping up. You outlevel areas before you've finished quest series, or more importantly, the named bosses go grey before you've had chance to encounter them. It leaves you with characters at level 70 that are pretty gimped in terms of AA and ineveitably you have to go back and do grey quests and the like to make up the ground.Ironically, the time it takes to do this totally mucks up the whole reason for putting the XP curves in, which was to speed up the time it takes to get to 70.Presumably, this further enhanced XP gani will only exacerbate this further.</blockquote>I've been leveling several alts since the change.Don't group, EVER. I'm keeping pace with AA, and I'm able to finish quest lines, but I find I'm skipping entire zones.Old Method:Gorowyn -> BBM -> Thundering Steppes -> Zek ->some el -> everfrost -> sinkingsands -> PoF -> Lfay -> etcNew Method:Gorowyn -> BBM -> Zek -> Everfrost -> Lfay -> etcA FEW quests get grey before I finish a region, but mostly I can stay ahead of them. There some sidfe quests / item quests / and just slow to update quests that aren't in a series that I skip now as well. If I have to kill 60 mobs to get the quest done, I skip it unless its in a series. Otherwise I'm getitng too much kill to aa xp.

Rijacki

11-04-2008, 12:21 PM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>NardacMM wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is not a terrible idea. It only applies to those who have already levelled to 80. Those who have levelled multiple characters know that completing the same old quests is very tedious. </blockquote>Now you see I thought that. However, all you are going to do is have all the new blood getting overtaken by established players and getting so disillusioned that they will leave all the sooner.</blockquote>How do you figure?Someone who has a level 80 (or more than one level 80), if they role an alt for the purpose of grouping with his friends in a new role, will want to get to 80 as fast as possible. It's unlikely, even without bonuses, that he'd spend a lot of time grouping with completely new people since that would slow him down.Those who are new to the game won't get the bonus (unless they went against the EULA and bought an account with 80s on it) and will see far more of the game than those rushing to 80. They would even without other people getting any bonus, because they won't likely be aware of the absolute best possible XP gaining places or activities.Having a bonus for multiple capped characters gives more incentive to start another character, instead of stop playing, if your current character isn't as fun for something as you thought. It ADDS replayability for people who have been playing for years and don't want to "throw away the work" they've put into their 80s by having to go back to scratch again to try something new with their friends who are 80, too.

liveja

11-04-2008, 12:49 PM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>to No matter that you can turn off this feature it will still affect the game as a whole. </blockquote>Could you elaborate a little on this? How will it affect your game, if you never do it yourself?You might mention unskilled n00bs at level 80 hurting your mojo or something, but the easy way to avoid that problem is to only group with people you know, & since most people already seem to do that anyway, I'm failing to see the issue.

Obadiah

11-04-2008, 12:56 PM

Dumb question, dumb gnome, can't find the answer. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />The adventuring XP bonus only applies to combat XP right? Not quest XP?

Yimway

11-04-2008, 01:05 PM

<cite>Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dumb question, dumb gnome, can't find the answer. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />The adventuring XP bonus only applies to combat XP right? Not quest XP?</blockquote>AFAIK, all bonuses discussed have only applied to adventuring XP.

interstellarmatter

11-04-2008, 01:11 PM

I hate agreeing with Holymoly, but I don't like all these XP changes. Now ask me why...the problem is I can't put my finger on the exact reason other than I don't like the direction of these changes. Maybe I'm old or just been playing too long, but I get more of a challenge leveling in Warcraft than here now. <shrug> This is the first expansion in four years that I actually have no desire to buy. They are turning it into an instant 80 and run instances over and over again game. Might as well be a first person shooter now.

Yimway

11-04-2008, 01:29 PM

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote>I hate agreeing with Holymoly, but I don't like all these XP changes. Now ask me why...the problem is I can't put my finger on the exact reason other than I don't like the direction of these changes. Maybe I'm old or just been playing too long, but I get more of a challenge leveling in Warcraft than here now. This is the first expansion in four years that I actually have no desire to buy. They are turning it into an instant 80 and run instances over and over again game. Might as well be a first person shooter now.</blockquote>First off, I empathize with your concerns.However, I see the changes as an effort to concentrate the playerbase in a common tier. This in the end better serves the game community as a whole. In a shrinking playerbase, we're all better off with as many of us as possible at the same progression point so that the game doesn't feel barren and desolute. All in all, it makes for a better experience for all players, the ones like us that did it uphill in the snow both ways, and those that got it all given to them.As long as there is content and depth at max tier, then I don't find anything broken.I personally have been 80 and 140 aa for ~6 months. This doesn't stop me logging on and having fun with the game, cause there is plenty of debth and things to do and people to do them with.With the next expansion focused at end tier, and no content for those under 50, to sell more boxes, you want as many players at the end tier as possible as well, right? And box sales fund development, you want them to make new stuff, we need box sales, etc etc.

CrazyMoogle

11-04-2008, 01:31 PM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Khayleigh@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm beginning to lose the will to live now this whole accelerated XP gain thing is also being extended to tradeskilling. No matter that you can turn off this feature it will still affect the game as a whole. </blockquote>Oh brother.</blockquote>Way to present constructive argument. Oh sorry, I forgot this is what you do.</blockquote>I couldn't think of anything constructive to say about you "losing the will to live" over a game.

Rijacki

11-04-2008, 02:10 PM

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote>I hate agreeing with Holymoly, but I don't like all these XP changes. Now ask me why...the problem is I can't put my finger on the exact reason other than I don't like the direction of these changes. Maybe I'm old or just been playing too long, but I get more of a challenge leveling in Warcraft than here now. This is the first expansion in four years that I actually have no desire to buy. They are turning it into an instant 80 and run instances over and over again game. Might as well be a first person shooter now.</blockquote>The bonuses are only for those players (account-based) who already have at least one level 80. It is highly likely someone who plays a level 80 will have friends who also have 80s. If that person rolls an alt, generally they're looking to rejoin their friends as soon as possible. Playing alone while your friends are able to group and do new stuff can be very off-putting. This bonus gives more players incentive to try new classes without requiring them to play alone away from their friends for a lengthy time. People playing together is what keeps most people playing. Without people playing together, it is a first person shooter.

interstellarmatter

11-04-2008, 02:22 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote>I hate agreeing with Holymoly, but I don't like all these XP changes. Now ask me why...the problem is I can't put my finger on the exact reason other than I don't like the direction of these changes. Maybe I'm old or just been playing too long, but I get more of a challenge leveling in Warcraft than here now. This is the first expansion in four years that I actually have no desire to buy. They are turning it into an instant 80 and run instances over and over again game. Might as well be a first person shooter now.</blockquote>The bonuses are only for those players (account-based) who already have at least one level 80. It is highly likely someone who plays a level 80 will have friends who also have 80s. If that person rolls an alt, generally they're looking to rejoin their friends as soon as possible. Playing alone while your friends are able to group and do new stuff can be very off-putting. This bonus gives more players incentive to try new classes without requiring them to play alone away from their friends for a lengthy time. People playing together is what keeps most people playing. Without people playing together, it is a first person shooter.</blockquote>I hope that you are right. But I just have this gut feeling that people are just going to get bored faster. <shrug> We'll just have to see..still not going to buy the expansion for a while. It's just been pretty boring to me so far and falls in the same category of the xp changes..just things that I don't like about the current direction of EQ2.

Rijacki

11-04-2008, 02:26 PM

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote>I hate agreeing with Holymoly, but I don't like all these XP changes. Now ask me why...the problem is I can't put my finger on the exact reason other than I don't like the direction of these changes. Maybe I'm old or just been playing too long, but I get more of a challenge leveling in Warcraft than here now. This is the first expansion in four years that I actually have no desire to buy. They are turning it into an instant 80 and run instances over and over again game. Might as well be a first person shooter now.</blockquote>The bonuses are only for those players (account-based) who already have at least one level 80. It is highly likely someone who plays a level 80 will have friends who also have 80s. If that person rolls an alt, generally they're looking to rejoin their friends as soon as possible. Playing alone while your friends are able to group and do new stuff can be very off-putting. This bonus gives more players incentive to try new classes without requiring them to play alone away from their friends for a lengthy time. People playing together is what keeps most people playing. Without people playing together, it is a first person shooter.</blockquote>I hope that you are right. But I just have this gut feeling that people are just going to get bored faster. We'll just have to see..still not going to buy the expansion for a while. It's just been pretty boring to me so far and falls in the same category of the xp changes..just things that I don't like about the current direction of EQ2.</blockquote>If you get bored with your current level 80 main, this would give you an opportunity to create a new character, level him up to the point you're at with your current, and try something new. It helps alleviate boredom in players who have been around for years and have "seen all done all" on their current.

interstellarmatter

11-04-2008, 02:29 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Someone who has a level 80 (or more than one level 80), if they role an alt for the purpose of grouping with his friends in a new role, will want to get to 80 as fast as possible. It's unlikely, even without bonuses, that he'd spend a lot of time grouping with completely new people since that would slow him down.</blockquote>I'd like to point out that statement. Vets who leveled new alts usually provided the core to grouping for new players. Now, it will be a waste of time for them to get groups together for RE, RoV, FG, etc... So, you'll see even less grouping for new players. And yes, many of them still want to group. Now, they'll just be a solo leveling route from 1 to 80. But wait, why even have the leveling curve? Why not instant 80? If there is no grouping and learning to play your class there is honestly no reason to have leveling at that point. It sounds like a silly idea until you get to the whole direction of their changes. It's silly to make such dramatic xp changes and not just make it instant 80.Now you see why I don't like the direction of the game....you may not agree with me..but at least understand that there fundamental change going on in the game and some people don't like it.

liveja

11-04-2008, 02:40 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>People playing together is what keeps most people playing. Without people playing together, it is a first person shooter.</blockquote>That's true, but precisely whom are we trying to get to group together? People at the level cap, or people at the low-to-middle levels?If the object is to get people to group at the level cap, we already have that incentive: it's content we can't do solo. If the object is to get people to group prior to level 70, then making it faster to level isn't necessarily going to do that; simply making it faster & "easier" to level is just going to provide more incentive to more people for whom it's easier & faster to solo their way to 80. So I'm not convinced that speeding up leveling is going to increase the grouping at any level.Edit: I have "mid-level" alts, BTW. I have a 26 Zerker, a 43 Wizzie, a 57 Conjy, & a 64 Troubie. I'm not "feeling the love", when it comes to a significant desire to level them up farther. Why don't I feel it? Because, at this point -- & I'm speaking strictly pre-TSO, since we don't know what will happen with that expac -- the "end game" content of EQ2 is .... decidedly .... um .... less than exciting. So why even bother leveling up? What are we even doing this for???In my case, the only reason I'm still subscribed is that I can't talk my beloved guildies into leaving EQ2 for Vanguard. So for me it's strictly "social", & frankly, no amount of increasing the speed of leveling will change that basic fact.In short: I would dramatically prefer the SOE focus on giving us a POINT to our leveling that goes beyond "kill monster loot monster gain levels rinse-wash-repeat" than throw a blanket over the whole situation by simply increasing the leveling speed.

Windowlicker

11-04-2008, 02:40 PM

It won't matter if you increase the amount of xp required to level, or decrease it. Either way you shake it, someone is going to complain.The bottom line in this situation is the population of Everquest 2 is shrinking. The game is ageing. It's neither realistic nor practical to leave required XP rates at levels set when we had more available people to game with.Excellent change.

interstellarmatter

11-04-2008, 02:42 PM

<cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bottom line in this situation is the population of Everquest 2 is shrinking. </blockquote>Hmmm..where are you getting your population numbers? Do you have a link for me?

Kizee

11-04-2008, 02:46 PM

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bottom line in this situation is the population of Everquest 2 is shrinking. </blockquote>Hmmm..where are you getting your population numbers? Do you have a link for me?</blockquote>You can't tell that there are alot less people around when you log in? I sure as heck can.

Wauke

11-04-2008, 02:55 PM

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote>Vets who leveled new alts usually provided the core to grouping for new players.</blockquote>Hmmm..where are you getting this info? Do you have a link for me?

Full_Metal_Mage

11-04-2008, 02:59 PM

<cite>Anduri wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem I'm finding with the enhanced XP curve is that you level at such a rate that your AA has no chance of keeping up. You outlevel areas before you've finished quest series, or more importantly, the named bosses go grey before you've had chance to encounter them. It leaves you with characters at level 70 that are pretty gimped in terms of AA and ineveitably you have to go back and do grey quests and the like to make up the ground.Ironically, the time it takes to do this totally mucks up the whole reason for putting the XP curves in, which was to speed up the time it takes to get to 70.Presumably, this further enhanced XP gani will only exacerbate this further.</blockquote>You must be playing the game all wrong. I am having absolutely no problem gaining AA exp on my new SK. In fact, I'm gaining AA exp just as fast now as I did on a character I was playing two years ago, and I had combat exp turned off on that one!From all the whining on this topic, it is obvious that the people who are whining about their AA exp simply have no idea how to play the game.

Full_Metal_Mage

11-04-2008, 03:05 PM

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Edit: I have "mid-level" alts, BTW. I have a 26 Zerker, a 43 Wizzie, a 57 Conjy, & a 64 Troubie. I'm not "feeling the love", when it comes to a significant desire to level them up farther. Why don't I feel it? Because, at this point -- & I'm speaking strictly pre-TSO, since we don't know what will happen with that expac -- the "end game" content of EQ2 is .... decidedly .... um .... less than exciting. So why even bother leveling up? What are we even doing this for???......In short: I would dramatically prefer the SOE focus on giving us a POINT to our leveling that goes beyond "kill monster loot monster gain levels rinse-wash-repeat" than throw a blanket over the whole situation by simply increasing the leveling speed.</blockquote>Isn't TSO strictly end-game content with no new low-to-mid level content? That should take care of your 'less than exciting' issue.I think this game has an abundance of low-to-mid level content and that no more of such is needed from any future expansions (assuming that there will be future expansions post TSO). If that is the direction SOE chooses to go, then the current leveling system is right on track for both new and experienced players.

StormCinder

11-04-2008, 03:08 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bottom line in this situation is the population of Everquest 2 is shrinking. </blockquote>Hmmm..where are you getting your population numbers? Do you have a link for me?</blockquote>You can't tell that there are alot less people around when you log in? I sure as heck can.</blockquote>I have to give a big, fat "no" to this question. Have not noticed a change in population, nor a problem finding groups. As pointed out by previous poster, if you have some sort of inside access to pop numbers, would love to see them.SC

liveja

11-04-2008, 03:14 PM

<cite>Full_Metal_Mage wrote:</cite><blockquote>Isn't TSO strictly end-game content with no new low-to-mid level content? That should take care of your 'less than exciting' issue.</blockquote>I explicitly said I was ONLY talking about pre-TSO, since none of us know what it's really going to be like.Merely having a ton of group content does NOT make the game "more exciting", if all that group content is as dull-as-dirt as COA, VoeS, Maiden's, Chelsith, etc. I'll with-hold judgment about TSO, therefore, until I've played it. But I will say that AFAIC the "high-end" content we have in the game at present is quite ... underwhelming.

Gilasil

11-04-2008, 03:18 PM

Why don't they stop this farce and have all new characters get created at level 80 with full AA, skills, with mythical gear?

Kizee

11-04-2008, 03:22 PM

<cite>Gilasil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why don't they stop this farce and have all new characters get created at level 80 with full AA, skills, with mythical gear?</blockquote>Shhhhh! Thats in a couple more LU's. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />

Zhern

11-04-2008, 03:34 PM

I don’t see a problem with the added exp. When I quit back earlier this year, I sold my characters on Station Exchange (I was not planning on coming back). So my highest now is 16, had I kept those characters I would have liked the added exp. I think you guys are making a big deal out of nothing. But for the statement that EQ2 is losing numbers. Make a new character and you will see how low it is. Before I left, I could make an alt and there would be 8-20 people in the Isle of Refuge, now it was just me. And this is at prime time hours (6:00pm – 11:00 pm CST) on Blackburrow. This will help with new people coming in the game or others that are going to make alts.

Full_Metal_Mage

11-04-2008, 03:34 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gilasil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why don't they stop this farce and have all new characters get created at level 80 with full AA, skills, with mythical gear?</blockquote>Shhhhh! Thats in a couple more LU's. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Actually, I think that will be the super-secret 5 year vet reward that they haven't told us about yet.

interstellarmatter

11-04-2008, 03:39 PM

<cite>Zhern wrote:</cite><blockquote> But for the statement that EQ2 is losing numbers. Make a new character and you will see how low it is. Before I left, I could make an alt and there would be 8-20 people in the Isle of Refuge, now it was just me. And this is at prime time hours (6:00pm – 11:00 pm CST) on Blackburrow. This will help with new people coming in the game or others that are going to make alts.</blockquote>But there are two more new places to start now instead of just the Isle of Refuge. So how is that a gauge?I'm not saying that the numbers are not down. But people are stating it like it's a fact when no one has anything solid. It needs to be stated as, "I believe that EQ2 numbers are down"

liveja

11-04-2008, 03:45 PM

<cite>Zhern wrote:</cite><blockquote>But for the statement that EQ2 is losing numbers. Make a new character and you will see how low it is. Before I left, I could make an alt and there would be 8-20 people in the Isle of Refuge, now it was just me. And this is at prime time hours (6:00pm – 11:00 pm CST) on Blackburrow. This will help with new people coming in the game or others that are going to make alts.</blockquote>I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why speeding up the rate of XP gain is going to convince a brand-new player to come play a game that's barely advertised, & which he/she may not even know exists.Previous players who left may or may not come back, but I doubt that speeding up XP between 20 & 70 would be the primary factor in their deciding to, & many may well see it as just a gimmick -- & a more or less "desperate" one at that -- as opposed to a significant change.I don't see this change as doing anything -- or even intended to do anything -- to increase the player base. I see it as a method of tossing a bone to the existing player base in an attempt to prevent those of us who are left from jumping ship.

Kiara

11-04-2008, 03:45 PM

<cite>Full_Metal_Mage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gilasil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why don't they stop this farce and have all new characters get created at level 80 with full AA, skills, with mythical gear?</blockquote>Shhhhh! Thats in a couple more LU's. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Actually, I think that will be the super-secret 5 year vet reward that they haven't told us about yet.</blockquote>OMG!! Who told you?We're also giving out free tin foil hats with every new alt you make <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

liveja

11-04-2008, 03:46 PM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>We're also giving out free tin foil hats with every new alt you make <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>O, that's the new Headwear model?

CrazyMoogle

11-04-2008, 03:48 PM

<cite>Gilasil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why don't they stop this farce and have all new characters get created at level 80 with full AA, skills, with mythical gear?</blockquote>What a brilliant argument. I'm convinced!

Alienor

11-04-2008, 03:53 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've been leveling several alts since the change.Don't group, EVER. I'm keeping pace with AA, and I'm able to finish quest lines, but I find I'm skipping entire zones.Old Method:Gorowyn -> BBM -> Thundering Steppes -> Zek ->some el -> everfrost -> sinkingsands -> PoF -> Lfay -> etcNew Method:Gorowyn -> BBM -> Zek -> Everfrost -> Lfay -> etc</blockquote>Lol. Even with old method you were skipping entire zones.... Personally I am glad that I did not had to kill those stinkin EL badgers just AGAIN <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Alienor

11-04-2008, 03:55 PM

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>We're also giving out free tin foil hats with every new alt you make <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Me want have one please!!!11!1eleven And also new char slots please <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Zhern

11-04-2008, 03:59 PM

Ok, I also done this and should have stated it. I done a /who all (blank) and the numbers were low, most of the classes were not above 100. <a href="http://mmogdata.voig.com/">http://mmogdata.voig.com/</a> By going here Eq2 only has .039 of the Market share, while WoW has 21% (rounded up) as of May 2008. And that is about the same time I quit to go play City of Heroes then Age of Conan then Warhammer, then back again. (I dislike Wow by the way) But if you have an influx of alts at lower levels and actual new people see this, they will like the game better then word of mouth kicks in. And SOE is not known for their advertising, which really blows my mind. I guess with the EQ movie that is coming out, it might generate some revenue from it, I hope.

Kizee

11-04-2008, 04:00 PM

<cite>Full_Metal_Mage wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gilasil wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why don't they stop this farce and have all new characters get created at level 80 with full AA, skills, with mythical gear?</blockquote>Shhhhh! Thats in a couple more LU's. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Actually, I think that will be the super-secret 5 year vet reward that they haven't told us about yet.</blockquote>Naw, that is going to be a LoN loot card.....not a 5 year vet reward. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />

liveja

11-04-2008, 04:02 PM

<cite>Zhern wrote:</cite><blockquote>But if you have an influx of alts at lower levels and actual new people see this</blockquote>What reason do you haveto believe that "actual new people" will see anything of the sort, given that nobody outside SOE has any real knowledge about their subscriber base & any changes to it?

Rijacki

11-04-2008, 04:08 PM

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote>But there are two more new places to start now instead of just the Isle of Refuge. </blockquote>Three: Kelethin, Neriak, Garowyn, in addition to the Qeynos and Freeport Isles (Outposts)-And- even if you're starting in Qeynos or Freeport, you can totally by-pass the isle and go straight to the cities and have stuff to level up on from scratch without ever gaining any XP on the isle.Not seeing anyone on the isle doesn't mean there aren't new characters (alt or new player) being made.

Zhern

11-04-2008, 04:26 PM

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zhern wrote:</cite><blockquote>But if you have an influx of alts at lower levels and actual new people see this</blockquote>What reason do you haveto believe that "actual new people" will see anything of the sort, given that nobody outside SOE has any real knowledge about their subscriber base & any changes to it?</blockquote>You can do a /who all and find anything you want about the population of a server. Yes it takes some work, but it can be done. Just /who all so it goes into your log file, filter the duplicates and there you go. SOE hid the numbers back in EQ1, but it has never been fool proof. And you don’t have to get a 100% accurate number to know general details.To get a real scientific data I would have to do it everyday for a month, and I am not going to do that. J Look at the website I provided and you can see there are peaks and valleys in the spread.Everyone knows that there will be new people for the expansion plus returning players. Then you have Christmas sales…….. But if you don’t believe that the numbers are dropping, then that is your opinion. You asked for proof, I gave it. Or at least I think it is proof, I hardly believe most websites anymore since most of them have an agenda. So I don’t know the credibility of the site I provided.

Soluss2

11-04-2008, 04:38 PM

<cite>Anduri wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem I'm finding with the enhanced XP curve is that you level at such a rate that your AA has no chance of keeping up. You outlevel areas before you've finished quest series, or more importantly, the named bosses go grey before you've had chance to encounter them. It leaves you with characters at level 70 that are pretty gimped in terms of AA and ineveitably you have to go back and do grey quests and the like to make up the ground.Ironically, the time it takes to do this totally mucks up the whole reason for putting the XP curves in, which was to speed up the time it takes to get to 70.Presumably, this further enhanced XP gani will only exacerbate this further.</blockquote>Which is why you can now mentor and get a nice AA bonus. Win win IMO.

Soluss2

11-04-2008, 04:39 PM

<cite>Zhern wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zhern wrote:</cite><blockquote>But if you have an influx of alts at lower levels and actual new people see this</blockquote>What reason do you haveto believe that "actual new people" will see anything of the sort, given that nobody outside SOE has any real knowledge about their subscriber base & any changes to it?</blockquote>You can do a /who all and find anything you want about the population of a server. Yes it takes some work, but it can be done. Just /who all so it goes into your log file, filter the duplicates and there you go. SOE hid the numbers back in EQ1, but it has never been fool proof. And you don’t have to get a 100% accurate number to know general details.To get a real scientific data I would have to do it everyday for a month, and I am not going to do that. J Look at the website I provided and you can see there are peaks and valleys in the spread.Everyone knows that there will be new people for the expansion plus returning players. Then you have Christmas sales…….. But if you don’t believe that the numbers are dropping, then that is your opinion. You asked for proof, I gave it. Or at least I think it is proof, I hardly believe most websites anymore since most of them have an agenda. So I don’t know the credibility of the site I provided.</blockquote>You cant see how many people are in instances.

Felshades

11-04-2008, 04:44 PM

soe will know if theres reason to panic over subscription drops.most of their decisions are made over player feedback. think what you want but if theyre speeding up levelling, its because we, the playerbase, wanted it. and no, the people on the forums are not the majority. vast majority of people playing these games never touch the forums, because they tend to degenerate into a cesspool of insults.

Kizee

11-04-2008, 04:56 PM

<cite>Felshades wrote:</cite><blockquote>soe will know if theres reason to panic over subscription drops.most of their decisions are made over player feedback. think what you want but if theyre speeding up levelling, its because we, the playerbase, wanted it. and no, the people on the forums are not the majority. vast majority of people playing these games never touch the forums, because they tend to degenerate into a cesspool of insults.</blockquote>They have a great track record of listening to the wrong people tho.As for the increase in leveling speed.... I don't remember any 26+ page threads of people saying leveling was too slow and it needed to be increased. I do remember a 26+ page thread saying it was a bad idea to increase it tho.

Zhern

11-04-2008, 04:58 PM

<cite>Felshades wrote:</cite><blockquote>soe will know if theres reason to panic over subscription drops.most of their decisions are made over player feedback. think what you want but if theyre speeding up levelling, its because we, the playerbase, wanted it. and no, the people on the forums are not the majority. vast majority of people playing these games never touch the forums, because they tend to degenerate into a cesspool of insults.</blockquote>Oh I agree. I am just stating that there has been a player drop at least on my server. And I do take into account that there are people in higher zones, because I was one of the higher ones, lol. There should be a good number coming back for the expansion. It was one of the reasons I came back. But I think panic mode will be quite awhile from now.

Windowlicker

11-04-2008, 06:38 PM

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bottom line in this situation is the population of Everquest 2 is shrinking. </blockquote>Hmmm..where are you getting your population numbers? Do you have a link for me?</blockquote>Do you honestly think we have a higher population now then four years ago?Seriously?On the same path as "Prove it", where are all the links showing the damage that will be done by speeding up XP gain?

Zhern

11-04-2008, 06:57 PM

<cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zahne@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>The bottom line in this situation is the population of Everquest 2 is shrinking. </blockquote>Hmmm..where are you getting your population numbers? Do you have a link for me?</blockquote>Do you honestly think we have a higher population now then four years ago?Seriously?On the same path as "Prove it", where are all the links showing the damage that will be done by speeding up XP gain?</blockquote>Touchéthe link i provided was the best proof that I can come up with, without doing it myself.

Rijacki

11-04-2008, 07:22 PM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite><blockquote>soe will know if theres reason to panic over subscription drops.most of their decisions are made over player feedback. think what you want but if theyre speeding up levelling, its because we, the playerbase, wanted it. and no, the people on the forums are not the majority. vast majority of people playing these games never touch the forums, because they tend to degenerate into a cesspool of insults.</blockquote>They have a great track record of listening to the wrong people tho.As for the increase in leveling speed.... I don't remember any 26+ page threads of people saying leveling was too slow and it needed to be increased. I do remember a 26+ page thread saying it was a bad idea to increase it tho.</blockquote>There may not have been ONE 26+ page thread but since launch 4 years ago, there have been several page threads on it at least once every month or less. If you added up all the threads over the 4 years complaining about leveling speed being too slow... it would definately be more than 26+ pages on the max posts per view.

Felshades

11-04-2008, 07:35 PM

levelling too slow is also one of the reasons my ex quit playing. he couldnt catch up to me.in fact, that was the reason he put on his 'i quit' survey.that survey is where they get a lot of their information from. i suggest you close an account and take a look at it at the least sometime. unless of course, you can find another place to view it, which i cant find atm. i just closed my second account today for financial reasons, and filled it out myself.

Thunderthyze

11-04-2008, 07:59 PM

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>to No matter that you can turn off this feature it will still affect the game as a whole. </blockquote>Could you elaborate a little on this? How will it affect your game, if you never do it yourself?You might mention unskilled n00bs at level 80 hurting your mojo or something, but the easy way to avoid that problem is to only group with people you know, & since most people already seem to do that anyway, I'm failing to see the issue.</blockquote>Well, assuming you want to play the game as a sociable exercise grouping etc rather than soloing to cap, what you will find is that players you group with who use the accelerated XP options will quickly outlevel you. The sense of continuity we all had when we were levelling our first characters won't be there any more for the majority of new players. Of course if all you care about is yourself I suppose it's all good.

Thunderthyze

11-04-2008, 08:13 PM

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote>I hate agreeing with Holymoly, but I don't like all these XP changes. </blockquote>I'd like to take this opportunity of apologising to you Stella. It was never my intention to start a thread that you would agree with, still less, one that you would be forced to admit to. I'll try to ensure it doesn't happen again <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />If it's any consolation I can't quite put my finger on the reason for my disquiet either other than the general direction the game is drifting. Suggesting the game may as well start at level 80 may sound absurd today but I am willing to bet that this time next year we will be several steps further down that road.

Runestone

11-04-2008, 08:38 PM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm beginning to lose the will to live now this whole accelerated XP gain thing is also being extended to tradeskilling. No matter that you can turn off this feature it will still affect the game as a whole. </blockquote>*Facepalm*

Kizee

11-04-2008, 08:53 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite><blockquote>soe will know if theres reason to panic over subscription drops.most of their decisions are made over player feedback. think what you want but if theyre speeding up levelling, its because we, the playerbase, wanted it. and no, the people on the forums are not the majority. vast majority of people playing these games never touch the forums, because they tend to degenerate into a cesspool of insults.</blockquote>They have a great track record of listening to the wrong people tho.As for the increase in leveling speed.... I don't remember any 26+ page threads of people saying leveling was too slow and it needed to be increased. I do remember a 26+ page thread saying it was a bad idea to increase it tho.</blockquote>There may not have been ONE 26+ page thread but since launch 4 years ago, there have been several page threads on it at least once every month or less. If you added up all the threads over the 4 years complaining about leveling speed being too slow... it would definately be more than 26+ pages on the max posts per view.</blockquote>IMO the leveling speed was never too slow. People that thought otherwise probally shouldn't be playing a MMORPG since the whole game concept was developing your character and enjoying the trip....not rushing to the endgame.WoW was deemed "the instant gradification game" since it was by far the fastest leveling game out there......now EQ2 surpasses WoW's leveling speed by far.I still think rushing everybody to endgame will hurt the game more than help since people will get bored faster. If SoE put out more content faster than I would say it wouldn't matter much but thats not the case. The "endgame" will always have less things to do.

Jhot

11-04-2008, 10:28 PM

Well, I like to do grey quests, and i'm pretty sure i'm not alone. I mean, if my journal would not have plenty of challenging quests from my level and more i could be worried, but from time to time its great to work on quests with gray mobs and enjoy the exploring and the soloing much more without too much pressure. Of course, if something loses too much value having it grey, i just note it for a future alt.As Kizee has said, its not about the end-game, it is about the journey.Cheers

Southwitch

11-05-2008, 12:05 AM

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite><blockquote>soe will know if theres reason to panic over subscription drops.most of their decisions are made over player feedback. think what you want but if theyre speeding up levelling, its because we, the playerbase, wanted it. and no, the people on the forums are not the majority. vast majority of people playing these games never touch the forums, because they tend to degenerate into a cesspool of insults.</blockquote>They have a great track record of listening to the wrong people tho.As for the increase in leveling speed.... I don't remember any 26+ page threads of people saying leveling was too slow and it needed to be increased. I do remember a 26+ page thread saying it was a bad idea to increase it tho.</blockquote>There may not have been ONE 26+ page thread but since launch 4 years ago, there have been several page threads on it at least once every month or less. If you added up all the threads over the 4 years complaining about leveling speed being too slow... it would definately be more than 26+ pages on the max posts per view.</blockquote>IMO the leveling speed was never too slow. People that thought otherwise probally shouldn't be playing a MMORPG since the whole game concept was developing your character and enjoying the trip....not rushing to the endgame.WoW was deemed "the instant gradification game" since it was by far the fastest leveling game out there......now EQ2 surpasses WoW's leveling speed by far.I still think rushing everybody to endgame will hurt the game more than help since people will get bored faster. If SoE put out more content faster than I would say it wouldn't matter much but thats not the case. The "endgame" will always have less things to do.</blockquote>That sounds like you're saying people who disagree with you shouldn't be playing. I don't agree with you, but I have no intention of quitting because you think I shouldn't be playing an MMO if I don't do it your way, sorry <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />For some people, it actually IS about rushing to the endgame. There are a wide variety of people with a wide variety of playstyles. What is wrong with SOE trying to make as many people happy as they can? The option is there to disable exp if you want to enjoy the journey, and they are adding more options in GU 50, just as they are adding more options to get to endgame faster if thats what makes you happy. I think this is a very good thing. More choices is always good.Also, just for the record, that 26+ page thread wasn't all people saying it was a bad idea. I personally posted there that I thought it was a great idea, as did quite a few others I recall seeing.

Amphibia

11-05-2008, 03:28 AM

Wow, lots of burned out folks in this thread....Oh well, I like this change personally. Less grinding is always a good thing in my book. Looking forward to getting that TS bonus, maybe I'll finally level up my sage.

Thunderthyze

11-05-2008, 05:03 AM

<cite>Felshades wrote:</cite><blockquote>soe will know if theres reason to panic over subscription drops.most of their decisions are made over player feedback. think what you want but if theyre speeding up levelling, its because we, the playerbase, wanted it. and no, the people on the forums are not the majority. vast majority of people playing these games never touch the forums, because they tend to degenerate into a cesspool of insults.</blockquote>Pardon? What player feedback? What vehicle do they use to guage what we want? I've never been approached to ask what I want? Have you? I would have thought that the whole point of an official forum is for the games company to be able to garner popular opinion in a moderated environment. No, I've never been asked by a SOE representative, or even been asked to fill out a questionaire. I will, however, continue to air my opinions on these forums as it seems the only way for our voice to be heard, albeit is appears to be collectively ignored 95% of the time.What I would say though is that SOE seems to have backtracked slightly on the whole idea of accelerated XP by incorporating more limiters in the next update. If that is so, then I welcome it but would argue the only reason they have done it is because of the outpouring of dismay exhibited on these forums. Certainly NOT because they contacted me to ASK for my opinion.

Thunderthyze

11-05-2008, 05:19 AM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite><blockquote>soe will know if theres reason to panic over subscription drops.most of their decisions are made over player feedback. think what you want but if theyre speeding up levelling, its because we, the playerbase, wanted it. and no, the people on the forums are not the majority. vast majority of people playing these games never touch the forums, because they tend to degenerate into a cesspool of insults.</blockquote>They have a great track record of listening to the wrong people tho.As for the increase in leveling speed.... I don't remember any 26+ page threads of people saying leveling was too slow and it needed to be increased. I do remember a 26+ page thread saying it was a bad idea to increase it tho.</blockquote>There may not have been ONE 26+ page thread but since launch 4 years ago, there have been several page threads on it at least once every month or less. If you added up all the threads over the 4 years complaining about leveling speed being too slow... it would definately be more than 26+ pages on the max posts per view.</blockquote>Let's be honest, the reason the population of EQ2 is falling is because of the increased competition in the genre compared with when it was released, NOT because it was too "hard" to level. In order to continue increasing subscribers a game has to grow and develop. Something EQ2 has not done, ever really. All the "expansions" have done is add more of the same. The same zones dressed up slightly differently. The same mobs with maybe a few more hitpoints. It is the equivalent of a boy band that hits on a winning formula and continues to churn out the same old stuff until sales suffer to the point that their contract doesn't get renewed. This fate will happen to every game out there eventually, even WoW.I think you're wrong though Rijacki. XP gain was never that much of an issue say last year. Sure you would get the people joining the game after having half a dozen maxed out characters on WoW and wanting to hit end game material immediately who would complain, but that was pretty much it. Any change which has involved the simplification of the game in some way has always provoked a negative response. There is a difference between making the game easier to play and making it an easy game.

Amphibia

11-05-2008, 06:43 AM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let's be honest, the reason the population of EQ2 is falling is because of the increased competition in the genre compared with when it was released, NOT because it was too "hard" to level. In order to continue increasing subscribers a game has to grow and develop. Something EQ2 has not done, ever really. All the "expansions" have done is add more of the same. The same zones dressed up slightly differently. The same mobs with maybe a few more hitpoints.</blockquote>How is that true?Let's see, AA-points (200 total, 3 trees), tinkering, transmuting, 3 new player cities (4 if you count Maj Dul), PvP, 3 new races, a massive improvement in tradeskills (yes, many of us actually care), live events with nearly every LU, appearance slots, guildhalls.... the list goes on. Is this how you define "no growth and development since launch"? As for the shrinking playerbase, I'm not saying that you're wrong... but have you seen the subscription numbers? How many less now since last year? I haven't seen any numbers, which is why I make no such claims one way or the other. I did notice how quiet Venekor got after a while, but on my current servers I've noticed no difference at all. Those servers seem as busy as ever.To be frankly honest, to me you just sound just totally burned out with this game. Is that a correct observation?

liveja

11-05-2008, 10:31 AM

<cite>Zhern wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zhern wrote:</cite><blockquote>But if you have an influx of alts at lower levels and actual new people see this</blockquote>What reason do you haveto believe that "actual new people" will see anything of the sort, given that nobody outside SOE has any real knowledge about their subscriber base & any changes to it?</blockquote>You can do a /who all and find anything you want about the population of a server. Yes it takes some work, but it can be done. Just /who all so it goes into your log file, filter the duplicates and there you go. SOE hid the numbers back in EQ1, but it has never been fool proof. And you don’t have to get a 100% accurate number to know general details.To get a real scientific data I would have to do it everyday for a month, and I am not going to do that. J Look at the website I provided and you can see there are peaks and valleys in the spread.Everyone knows that there will be new people for the expansion plus returning players. Then you have Christmas sales…….. But if you don’t believe that the numbers are dropping, then that is your opinion. You asked for proof, I gave it. Or at least I think it is proof, I hardly believe most websites anymore since most of them have an agenda. So I don’t know the credibility of the site I provided.</blockquote>I didn't ask you for proof that the population numbers were dropping.I asked you to explain why you think "new players" -- i.e., people who don't yet even play EQ2 -- would "see" anything at all having to do those numbers, or have any knowledge about the XP gain enhancement, etc. IOW, I'm asking you to explain why you seem to think this change will do anything to positively affect the population base.& no, I'm sorry, but anecdotal information derived from "/who all" is not "evidence."

liveja

11-05-2008, 10:40 AM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>to No matter that you can turn off this feature it will still affect the game as a whole. </blockquote>Could you elaborate a little on this? How will it affect your game, if you never do it yourself?You might mention unskilled n00bs at level 80 hurting your mojo or something, but the easy way to avoid that problem is to only group with people you know, & since most people already seem to do that anyway, I'm failing to see the issue.</blockquote>Well, assuming you want to play the game as a sociable exercise grouping etc rather than soloing to cap, what you will find is that players you group with who use the accelerated XP options will quickly outlevel you. The sense of continuity we all had when we were levelling our first characters won't be there any more for the majority of new players. Of course if all you care about is yourself I suppose it's all good.</blockquote>First off, I'm not expecting to do enough grouping with my 43 Wizzie to worry about whether or not I can "keep up" with people. Secondly, the only "sense of community" about which I've the slightest concern is the one I feel with my guildies, who are the people with whom I primarily play.It's not a matter of only caring about myself, so much as a matter of not caring about things that won't actually affect me if I don't allow them to.I think there are far too many wild, unsupported claims made on both sides of this issue, & the notion that this change will have some sort of dire, long-term adverse affect on the game as a whole is one of them. I think a FAR bigger concern is whether or not the highest level content is actually "worth" racing towards. At present, in ROK, it's not. Will TSO change this? I can only hope so, but I'm deeply concerned that it's just going to be running the same instances over & over & over & over again. I loved it in EQ1; I'm not so sure I'm loving that idea any more.

Ama

11-05-2008, 11:53 AM

Sadly I see this as a solution for those that constantly complained it was too hard to level. Right now with everything that's going into the game i'll have to revamp my PvE guide. Instead of taking 1 and 1/2 months to level a toon it'll probably take less than 3 weeks going at it for 3-5hrs a day. To me this is really really sad and leveling needs to be slow. Going from level 1-25 maybe 1 to 35 in a week is fine, but right now you can do it inside of 2 days possibly 1 with xp potions. Also with nearly 4 level 80 toons i'm starting to get the feeling WoE/EC has taken root even more so. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />

Amytheyst

11-05-2008, 12:37 PM

I wonder if anyone bothered to think that perhaps, the accelerated XP has a couple of benefits they [SOE] were hoping for?Dont complain about leveling speed if youre the one hosting "wikia" style sites, or writing "leveling guides". Too much information hurts the game too. Ive lately been introducing "mmo newbs" to the game and without help "from the outside" theyre moving along at casual rates.What I do see is alot more people dropping groups at the first sign of strife or the challenge of having to think through a situation more often than I did 3,5,10 years ago. Social conditioning. Some folk out there made their own bed, now have to sleep (powernap, scuse me) in it.The "run to the end" for the 5 minute gamers has been introduced. They [SOE] get their quick money now.The dedicated server folk who play these games for the long haul will stay regardless of speed. If they feel like racing they can, if they feel like crawling, they still can.My take so far has been the "we had it hard you should too" crowd chiming in being the most aggravated. SOE is making both the fast buck and the slow buck, cant blame them.2c

Rijacki

11-05-2008, 12:46 PM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Felshades wrote:</cite><blockquote>soe will know if theres reason to panic over subscription drops.most of their decisions are made over player feedback. think what you want but if theyre speeding up levelling, its because we, the playerbase, wanted it. and no, the people on the forums are not the majority. vast majority of people playing these games never touch the forums, because they tend to degenerate into a cesspool of insults.</blockquote>They have a great track record of listening to the wrong people tho.As for the increase in leveling speed.... I don't remember any 26+ page threads of people saying leveling was too slow and it needed to be increased. I do remember a 26+ page thread saying it was a bad idea to increase it tho.</blockquote>There may not have been ONE 26+ page thread but since launch 4 years ago, there have been several page threads on it at least once every month or less. If you added up all the threads over the 4 years complaining about leveling speed being too slow... it would definately be more than 26+ pages on the max posts per view.</blockquote>I think you're wrong though Rijacki. XP gain was never that much of an issue say last year. Sure you would get the people joining the game after having half a dozen maxed out characters on WoW and wanting to hit end game material immediately who would complain, but that was pretty much it. Any change which has involved the simplification of the game in some way has always provoked a negative response. There is a difference between making the game easier to play and making it an easy game.</blockquote>I'm wrong for noting that there have been threads -since launch- about the speed of leveling? I wasn't making a judgement call on the posters or threads, just noting their existance.As I posted in the tradeskill forum on this same topic:Because XP bonus can be shut off, it allows more game styles. I'm all for CHOICE and tolerance. Don't belittle people for choosing to have it enabled or disabled even if that's not your own choice. What they choose it right for them, respect them and allow that their choice is the right one for -them- even if it isn't for you.I may have it enabled on some characters, disabled on others. I want a slow road with some, a faster road with others. It doesn't mean I'm confused, just that I want different types of experience for different characters. On some I -am- itching for 80 but on others I'm taking the slow road and enjoying the scenery. I'm glad I have the option to play it both ways.Ironically my 80s aren't on the "right" account (I have had two since a few months after launch) to give a bonus to the characters I'd be more likely to want it for at this time but I don't begrudge the bonus and don't judge anyone based on their desire to use it or not. I do hope there will be the ability to shut off some of the other recent XP changes, too, since I'd like the OPTION to be able to CHOOSE that as well.

Thunderthyze

11-05-2008, 12:47 PM

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let's be honest, the reason the population of EQ2 is falling is because of the increased competition in the genre compared with when it was released, NOT because it was too "hard" to level. In order to continue increasing subscribers a game has to grow and develop. Something EQ2 has not done, ever really. All the "expansions" have done is add more of the same. The same zones dressed up slightly differently. The same mobs with maybe a few more hitpoints.</blockquote> How is that true?Let's see, AA-points (200 total, 3 trees), tinkering, transmuting, 3 new player cities (4 if you count Maj Dul), PvP, 3 new races, a massive improvement in tradeskills (yes, many of us actually care), live events with nearly every LU, appearance slots, guildhalls.... the list goes on. Is this how you define "no growth and development since launch"? As for the shrinking playerbase, I'm not saying that you're wrong... but have you seen the subscription numbers? How many less now since last year? I haven't seen any numbers, which is why I make no such claims one way or the other. I did notice how quiet Venekor got after a while, but on my current servers I've noticed no difference at all. Those servers seem as busy as ever.To be frankly honest, to me you just sound just totally burned out with this game. Is that a correct observation?</blockquote>The reason the game took such a hit after the release of RoK was because the expansion was so poorly designed, NOT because it took a long time to level. People who had been at cap for a year prior to its release who had spent most of their time grouping/raiding all of a sudden found out they effectively had to solo back to cap in order that they could resume the playstyle they preferred. Personally it wasn't an issue for me and I just got on and did it, but for many it was a HUGE issue, to the extent they ended up leaving the game.Like I said, I got on and quested to cap, basically solo. Even I found however that I missed the occasional grouping. Karnor's was a joke at release as you got no reward for doing it whatsoever. No xp, no loot, and it was contested so most of the names weren't there anyway.While EQ2 is not as linear as many others of the genre SOE effectively directed the playstyle you had to adopt in RoK and the quest structure WAS the most linear to date. It ended up extremely boring putting more than one character through it. THAT'S why people left the game in such large numbers.Am I burned out? No, I don't think I am but that's because I have 10~11 alts spread throughout the the level range and tradeskillers only one of which is a mastercraftsman. In short I don't get bored because I can change content easily. That will change now however as playing for half an hour will likely get a level 40 alt a level increase now and pretty soon all my characters will be in the 70~80 bracket. Maybe THEN I will lose interest.

interstellarmatter

11-05-2008, 12:55 PM

Well, with all the instances in ToS lackluster at best, I hope that they can hold all the player's attention at the top tier. This isn't a matter of one side being right and the other wrong. This is a matter of people just expressing their opinion on the direction of the game. But in any matter, I'm just going to sit back here and see how it plays out. Should be interesting to say the least.

Zhern

11-05-2008, 12:58 PM

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zhern wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zhern wrote:</cite><blockquote>But if you have an influx of alts at lower levels and actual new people see this</blockquote>What reason do you haveto believe that "actual new people" will see anything of the sort, given that nobody outside SOE has any real knowledge about their subscriber base & any changes to it?</blockquote>You can do a /who all and find anything you want about the population of a server. Yes it takes some work, but it can be done. Just /who all so it goes into your log file, filter the duplicates and there you go. SOE hid the numbers back in EQ1, but it has never been fool proof. And you don’t have to get a 100% accurate number to know general details.To get a real scientific data I would have to do it everyday for a month, and I am not going to do that. J Look at the website I provided and you can see there are peaks and valleys in the spread.Everyone knows that there will be new people for the expansion plus returning players. Then you have Christmas sales…….. But if you don’t believe that the numbers are dropping, then that is your opinion. You asked for proof, I gave it. Or at least I think it is proof, I hardly believe most websites anymore since most of them have an agenda. So I don’t know the credibility of the site I provided.</blockquote>I didn't ask you for proof that the population numbers were dropping.I asked you to explain why you think "new players" -- i.e., people who don't yet even play EQ2 -- would "see" anything at all having to do those numbers, or have any knowledge about the XP gain enhancement, etc. IOW, I'm asking you to explain why you seem to think this change will do anything to positively affect the population base.& no, I'm sorry, but anecdotal information derived from "/who all" is not "evidence."</blockquote>Massively, MMORPG, Softpedia etc, each have a big following, not just forums, but news, player reviews, writer revisit reviews. I suggest you check them out, very good sites on gaming and MMOs. These changes will entice people to make alts, which will create a lot of people in the low level areas again. The changes and expansion will create news that hits these sites, people read the changes, and some get curious and buy the game. They enter the game, see people in low level areas, and wham, they see a live game. They tell their friends and they tell their friends. This is SOE advertising, because SOE does no advertising. Put it this way, if SOE said that EQ2 would have naked Dark Elves running around, this would create a fire storm of news, and people see this. And if they enter the game and there is no one there, they will play, but they will leave. This change makes it so that when a actual new person or returning player enters the game, they see bodies. Now if SOE done advertising as WOW does, this would be a non issue. <div>Also when the Everquest movie comes out next year or 2010. And it is a big hit, and then EQ2 will get a major boost in sales. But until then it is word of mouth. </div> On the /who all, that is the only way you could see the numbers of a server. The best you can do is get a general subscription rate. You would have to do it a week each month to get an average. Also you can’t go by the SOE website on players on the server, because those people stay there if they are subbed or not.

liveja

11-05-2008, 01:04 PM

Just a couple points on ROK ....I got the expac about 2 weeks after release. 2 weeks later, I was level 80. I could have done it faster, but I didn't want to. IMO, getting 10 levels in 2 weeks -- especially at the highest levels in the game, & doing much of it solo -- is & was too fast.It's simply not true that people were "forced" to solo to finish ROK quest lines. It's more accurate to argue that soloing those quest lines was faster or more effective, because you didn't have to worry about whether or not everyone in the group was on the same step. But that is NOT the same as saying, or even implying, that you were FORCED to solo. I myself duo'd, trio'd, & even full-grouped a number of the quest lines. Why? Because it was more fun having guildies to chat with while grinding lame, boring solo quests than otherwise.

Thunderthyze

11-05-2008, 01:18 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Because XP bonus can be shut off, it allows more game styles. I'm all for CHOICE and tolerance. Don't belittle people for choosing to have it enabled or disabled even if that's not your own choice. What they choose it right for them, respect them and allow that their choice is the right one for -them- even if it isn't for you.</blockquote>If anyone thinks I am belittling them I apologise. I hear what you're saying and in principle I will agree with you, giving people the choice sounds like the most equitable solution. My point is however that in my opinion it will be bad for the long term future of the game.I think there are two types of players who will want to "race" to cap. Those that already have characters at cap and want to get all their characters to join them becasue for them end game is the only game and, new players who feel they are in some way inferior if they are not at cap. These latter players are the most likely to leave the game quickly no matter what inducements are provided for them to succeed.In any case what you are left with is a system which will have effectively a two speed player base. Probably soloers crashing through the levels and others who want to experience the games intermediate levels in the same way we did, and never will the two camps meet, thereby removing still less of the sociable nature of the game.I would like to think that the majority of the subscribers still playing the game have been playing since almost the beginning. The ephemeral clique that wanted to "gonzo" the game have come and gone and will continue doing so no matter what SOE throws into the mix. A lot of people have told me the only reason they kept playing post RoK was for the sociable contact they retained with their guild. If that hadn't been so ingrained many more people would have left. If the game is "desocialised" any more via making it ever more pro-solo there won't be that bed-rock to draw on when the game hits the buffers next time.

Thunderthyze

11-05-2008, 01:21 PM

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote> This isn't a matter of one side being right and the other wrong. This is a matter of people just expressing their opinion on the direction of the game. But in any matter, I'm just going to sit back here and see how it plays out. Should be interesting to say the least.</blockquote>Amen.

liveja

11-05-2008, 01:22 PM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the game is "desocialised" any more via making it ever more pro-solo there won't be that bed-rock to draw on when the game hits the buffers next time.</blockquote>I agree, but I don't think increasing XP gain is either the problem or the solution. The problem is lack of strong content that's obviously worth grouping for, as opposed to soloing; the solution is to create more such content. Otherwise, people are going to solo no matter how long it takes.

Rijacki

11-05-2008, 01:27 PM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think there are two types of players who will want to "race" to cap. Those that already have characters at cap and want to get all their characters to join them becasue for them end game is the only game and, new players who feel they are in some way inferior if they are not at cap. These latter players are the most likely to leave the game quickly no matter what inducements are provided for them to succeed.In any case what you are left with is a system which will have effectively a two speed player base. Probably soloers crashing through the levels and others who want to experience the games intermediate levels in the same way we did, and never will the two camps meet, thereby removing still less of the sociable nature of the game.</blockquote>Actually, this part isn't changing at all. Only those who already have characters at level 80 will get the bonus. Those without won't. Those who want to race to 80 with additional characters will have an additional choice on how to do so. Those would have been the players who NOW "crash through the levels" soloing all the way as fast as they can. Those who are new to the game and/or those who have 80s who chose to disable the bonus will level as they do now. Right now those vets who choose level slower on alts are more likely to be the ones who get into groups through all the levels. They still can. They aren't forced to have the bonus.There is NO change to the status quo. The only change is that those who want to level an ALT faster because they already have one of more level 80 will have the OPTION to do so.Those who role alts to enjoy the game at different levels and be sociable with newer players at different ranges will also have the OPTION to do so.

interstellarmatter

11-05-2008, 01:42 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually, this part isn't changing at all. Only those who already have characters at level 80 will get the bonus. Those without won't. Those who want to race to 80 with additional characters will have an additional choice on how to do so. Those would have been the players who NOW "crash through the levels" soloing all the way as fast as they can. Those who are new to the game and/or those who have 80s who chose to disable the bonus will level as they do now. Right now those vets who choose level slower on alts are more likely to be the ones who get into groups through all the levels. They still can. They aren't forced to have the bonus.There is NO change to the status quo. The only change is that those who want to level an ALT faster because they already have one of more level 80 will have the OPTION to do so.Those who role alts to enjoy the game at different levels and be sociable with newer players at different ranges will also have the OPTION to do so.</blockquote>So, if this is all about alts. Then why make them level at all? Why can't you just be able to create them and buff them to 80?

Yimway

11-05-2008, 01:51 PM

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote></blockquote>So, if this is all about alts. Then why make them level at all? Why can't you just be able to create them and buff them to 80?</blockquote>Hehe, we had a vigorous series of arguement threads on this topic about 4-6weeks before all the xp revamp went in. Apparently SoE felt this was the best way to address the issue.

Rijacki

11-05-2008, 01:58 PM

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually, this part isn't changing at all. Only those who already have characters at level 80 will get the bonus. Those without won't. Those who want to race to 80 with additional characters will have an additional choice on how to do so. Those would have been the players who NOW "crash through the levels" soloing all the way as fast as they can. Those who are new to the game and/or those who have 80s who chose to disable the bonus will level as they do now. Right now those vets who choose level slower on alts are more likely to be the ones who get into groups through all the levels. They still can. They aren't forced to have the bonus.There is NO change to the status quo. The only change is that those who want to level an ALT faster because they already have one of more level 80 will have the OPTION to do so.Those who role alts to enjoy the game at different levels and be sociable with newer players at different ranges will also have the OPTION to do so.</blockquote>So, if this is all about alts. Then why make them level at all? Why can't you just be able to create them and buff them to 80?</blockquote>By going through the levels with an alt, you can see how the class' spells/CAs and other combat related stuff interact. You might even learn something about a class you've been playing a while at cap, since there may have been changes and playing with less than the capped level/achievement does require a different touch which might impart some ideas on how to refine play at cap, too.I have 3 coercers on 3 different servers. Sadly my 80 is on the account the other 2 are not or I would be probably run with the bonus on at least one of them so I can more quickly join friends on that server who are capped, playing the class I prefer (right now I have to play an adventure class I loathe if I want to play with them at all.. on the infrequent times they're playing).

Lonestryd

11-05-2008, 05:52 PM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Because XP bonus can be shut off, it allows more game styles. I'm all for CHOICE and tolerance. Don't belittle people for choosing to have it enabled or disabled even if that's not your own choice. What they choose it right for them, respect them and allow that their choice is the right one for -them- even if it isn't for you.</blockquote>If anyone thinks I am belittling them I apologise. I hear what you're saying and in principle I will agree with you, giving people the choice sounds like the most equitable solution. My point is however that in my opinion it will be bad for the long term future of the game.I think there are two types of players who will want to "race" to cap. Those that already have characters at cap and want to get all their characters to join them becasue for them end game is the only game and, new players who feel they are in some way inferior if they are not at cap. These latter players are the most likely to leave the game quickly no matter what inducements are provided for them to succeed.In any case what you are left with is a system which will have effectively a two speed player base. Probably soloers crashing through the levels and others who want to experience the games intermediate levels in the same way we did, and never will the two camps meet, thereby removing still less of the sociable nature of the game.I would like to think that the majority of the subscribers still playing the game have been playing since almost the beginning. The ephemeral clique that wanted to "gonzo" the game have come and gone and will continue doing so no matter what SOE throws into the mix. A lot of people have told me the only reason they kept playing post RoK was for the sociable contact they retained with their guild. If that hadn't been so ingrained many more people would have left. If the game is "desocialised" any more via making it ever more pro-solo there won't be that bed-rock to draw on when the game hits the buffers next time.</blockquote>Very well said. Perhaps the impact of this trend can act as a catalyst to enticing someone to make a game that swings the pendulum in the other direction, thereby either providing a true choice between games, or maybe even a change in the trend altogether. I don't think it will take long before cheap, erstatz gaming mechanics will be questioned for their long-term viability and wisdom.

woolf2k

11-05-2008, 05:59 PM

I dont' get it. this is for CAPPED Characters. so you are ALREADY at 80.I see it can help you by gaining a bit more AXP since XP get's turned into AXP at cap. But what's in it for tradeskiller? More AXP for them too?

Finora

11-05-2008, 06:19 PM

<cite>Jaine@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont' get it. this is for CAPPED Characters. so you are ALREADY at 80.I see it can help you by gaining a bit more AXP since XP get's turned into AXP at cap. But what's in it for tradeskiller? More AXP for them too?</blockquote>The bonus is applied to your non-capped characters on your account. Working much like a permanent xp potion. That's for both adventurers & tradeskillers. If you play just one character then this won't benefit you at all unless you decide to make another.

interstellarmatter

11-05-2008, 06:46 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Because XP bonus can be shut off, it allows more game styles. I'm all for CHOICE and tolerance. Don't belittle people for choosing to have it enabled or disabled even if that's not your own choice. What they choose it right for them, respect them and allow that their choice is the right one for -them- even if it isn't for you.</blockquote>Hahaha..I missed this post. Don't you think that you are being a little dramatic Rijacki? Choice? Because someone doesn't agree with a mechanics change in the game, they are now interfering and belittling people. You're taking this just a touch too personal. Time to back away for a bit, you think?

Thunderthyze

11-06-2008, 07:19 AM

SOE have already committed themselves to significant investment in the console gaming market, even considering EQ for the PSP. It is a shame then that they can't leave the PC genre as a stand alone market without wanting the blur the distinction between it and the Playstation. EQ and EQ2 was devised as a PC game with the depth and learning curve to match however since release they seem to have been saying to its subscribers "Ok, we've got this brilliant game you all enjoy, but have you ever thought of how fantastic it would be if you could play it like a PS3 game?. Obviously, this would entail having to simplify the game mechanics, and incorporate a point at which you could say "I've won", thereby requiring a far shorter period between character creation and end game, but that would be fantastic, wouldn't it? You don't think so? Really? Well, we're going to do it anyway, because you'll all still continue to pay your subs anyway.....suckers!"

erin

11-06-2008, 09:06 AM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think there are two types of players who will want to "race" to cap. Those that already have characters at cap and want to get all their characters to join them becasue for them end game is the only game and, new players who feel they are in some way inferior if they are not at cap. These latter players are the most likely to leave the game quickly no matter what inducements are provided for them to succeed.</blockquote>Trying to figure out which of those 2 I am, but nope, neither fits me at all. I don't believe the end game is the only game, in fact I enjoy the journey quite a bit, but there are parts that are boring (50-60 for me).I have 5 chars at 80, though not maxxed AA, but can't say I feel inferior. Who would I feel inferior to? My guildmates? Raiders? I can't figure that one out.So I just don't see either of those fitting. So there must be at least 3 types of players who want to quickly get to cap. I enjoy the journey but it doesn't have to take 6 months to get there.

Thunderthyze

11-06-2008, 10:45 AM

<cite>erin wrote:</cite><blockquote> I enjoy the journey but it doesn't have to take 6 months to get there.</blockquote>LOL....6 months??It took me about a year to get my first character to cap, and that was level 60. Never made it to 50 before DoF was released. God, but imagine the furore if that was still the rate the average person was expected to level at.

woolf2k

11-06-2008, 11:23 AM

<cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jaine@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont' get it. this is for CAPPED Characters. so you are ALREADY at 80.I see it can help you by gaining a bit more AXP since XP get's turned into AXP at cap. But what's in it for tradeskiller? More AXP for them too?</blockquote>The bonus is applied to your non-capped characters on your account. Working much like a permanent xp potion. That's for both adventurers & tradeskillers. If you play just one character then this won't benefit you at all unless you decide to make another.</blockquote>oh! that's great. I like it. and if I want to stop and smell the roses I can, cause there is still MENTORING and TURN OFF XP gain...this sounds alot better than automatically starting at some higher level like some other MMO will work.this other MMO come there expansion will enable users to start at level 50 if you already have a character at cap. obviously this company has found a need to do this and perhaps eq2 as a game that's been around awhile and has now 80 levels instead of 50 has also found a need to speeed things up so it doesn't take you forever to level up to cap but still keep it as a choice rather than a requirement.

Frigid2000

11-06-2008, 12:58 PM

Instances are lackluster in ToS? From what I read on the beta forums, nearly everyone was excited with them and they were often quite challenging. But I'm sure enough people on these forums will whine about how hard they are and get them nerfed into the ground. I.E. Maidens.I'm tired of the doomsayers. I will say it once again. On Everfrost, I have not seen a population drop, ever. For every person that has left, someone has come back. And no one in my guild or any guild that I know of, do we see people leaving. So, take that as you will.

Froed20

11-06-2008, 02:05 PM

<blockquote><cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Because XP bonus can be shut off, it allows more game styles. I'm all for CHOICE and tolerance. Don't belittle people for choosing to have it enabled or disabled even if that's not your own choice. What they choose it right for them, respect them and allow that their choice is the right one for -them- even if it isn't for you.</blockquote>If anyone thinks I am belittling them I apologise. I hear what you're saying and in principle I will agree with you, giving people the choice sounds like the most equitable solution. My point is however that in my opinion it will be bad for the long term future of the game.I think there are two types of players who will want to "race" to cap. Those that already have characters at cap and want to get all their characters to join them becasue for them end game is the only game and, new players who feel they are in some way inferior if they are not at cap. These latter players are the most likely to leave the game quickly no matter what inducements are provided for them to succeed.In any case what you are left with is a system which will have effectively a two speed player base. Probably soloers crashing through the levels and others who want to experience the games intermediate levels in the same way we did, and never will the two camps meet, thereby removing still less of the sociable nature of the game.I would like to think that the majority of the subscribers still playing the game have been playing since almost the beginning. The ephemeral clique that wanted to "gonzo" the game have come and gone and will continue doing so no matter what SOE throws into the mix. A lot of people have told me the only reason they kept playing post RoK was for the sociable contact they retained with their guild. If that hadn't been so ingrained many more people would have left. If the game is "desocialised" any more via making it ever more pro-solo there won't be that bed-rock to draw on when the game hits the buffers next time.</blockquote></blockquote>With all due respect, I've been through the lower levels countless times as I'm an alt-aholic. Very rarely do I see many people in any of the lower level dungeons. It happens from time to time, but the majority of the player base is in the end-game. This is NOT going to change unless there is another expansion along the lines of EoF i.e. adding new low-level content that entices people to go through the whole progression again (through the 1-50 range at the very least, not just halfass it through the first 20 levels like they've been doing lately). The best way I can see this happening is if you add one or two new classes to the mix, though I know that in itself is pretty unlikely at this point. So they've pretty much got 2 options as things stand now: Let players roll through the levels faster in hopes that they stick it out and make it to end game where they'll hopefully find a guild or group of people along the way, or let things go as they stand and cross their fingers that things will work themselves out.The market is more saturated with mmo's than ever. If SOE wants to attract more players, they need to rethink their gameplan.

Full_Metal_Mage

11-06-2008, 03:56 PM

<cite>Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>stuff</blockquote>With all due respect, I've been through the lower levels countless times as I'm an alt-aholic. Very rarely do I see many people in any of the lower level dungeons. It happens from time to time, but the majority of the player base is in the end-game. This is NOT going to change unless there is another expansion along the lines of EoF i.e. adding new low-level content that entices people to go through the whole progression again (through the 1-50 range at the very least, not just halfass it through the first 20 levels like they've been doing lately). The best way I can see this happening is if you add one or two new classes to the mix, though I know that in itself is pretty unlikely at this point. So they've pretty much got 2 options as things stand now: Let players roll through the levels faster in hopes that they stick it out and make it to end game where they'll hopefully find a guild or group of people along the way, or let things go as they stand and cross their fingers that things will work themselves out.The market is more saturated with mmo's than ever. If SOE wants to attract more players, they need to rethink their gameplan.</blockquote>Please don't ever mention 'new classes'. There are enough issues with the classes already in the game to keep the devs busy tweaking them for a long time to come.If they decided to add new races, that might interest enough players to play new characters through the low and mid level game. (But no more bug or lizard races, okay?)

bleap

11-06-2008, 08:13 PM

SOE doesn't just implement this stuff for no reason. Most probably they are reacting to requestsfrom players. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

bleap

11-06-2008, 08:21 PM

<cite>Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Because XP bonus can be shut off, it allows more game styles. I'm all for CHOICE and tolerance. Don't belittle people for choosing to have it enabled or disabled even if that's not your own choice. What they choose it right for them, respect them and allow that their choice is the right one for -them- even if it isn't for you.</blockquote>If anyone thinks I am belittling them I apologise. I hear what you're saying and in principle I will agree with you, giving people the choice sounds like the most equitable solution. My point is however that in my opinion it will be bad for the long term future of the game.I think there are two types of players who will want to "race" to cap. Those that already have characters at cap and want to get all their characters to join them becasue for them end game is the only game and, new players who feel they are in some way inferior if they are not at cap. These latter players are the most likely to leave the game quickly no matter what inducements are provided for them to succeed.In any case what you are left with is a system which will have effectively a two speed player base. Probably soloers crashing through the levels and others who want to experience the games intermediate levels in the same way we did, and never will the two camps meet, thereby removing still less of the sociable nature of the game.I would like to think that the majority of the subscribers still playing the game have been playing since almost the beginning. The ephemeral clique that wanted to "gonzo" the game have come and gone and will continue doing so no matter what SOE throws into the mix. A lot of people have told me the only reason they kept playing post RoK was for the sociable contact they retained with their guild. If that hadn't been so ingrained many more people would have left. If the game is "desocialised" any more via making it ever more pro-solo there won't be that bed-rock to draw on when the game hits the buffers next time.</blockquote></blockquote>With all due respect, I've been through the lower levels countless times as I'm an alt-aholic. Very rarely do I see many people in any of the lower level dungeons. It happens from time to time, but the majority of the player base is in the end-game. This is NOT going to change unless there is another expansion along the lines of EoF i.e. adding new low-level content that entices people to go through the whole progression again (through the 1-50 range at the very least, not just halfass it through the first 20 levels like they've been doing lately). The best way I can see this happening is if you add one or two new classes to the mix, though I know that in itself is pretty unlikely at this point. So they've pretty much got 2 options as things stand now: Let players roll through the levels faster in hopes that they stick it out and make it to end game where they'll hopefully find a guild or group of people along the way, or let things go as they stand and cross their fingers that things will work themselves out.The market is more saturated with mmo's than ever. If SOE wants to attract more players, they need to rethink their gameplan.</blockquote>Bring on the Knight Elf Mohawks!Or Beastlords..

Killerbee3000

11-07-2008, 05:20 AM

<cite>Holymoly@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>erin wrote:</cite><blockquote> I enjoy the journey but it doesn't have to take 6 months to get there.</blockquote>LOL....6 months??It took me about a year to get my first character to cap, and that was level 60. Never made it to 50 before DoF was released. God, but imagine the furore if that was still the rate the average person was expected to level at.</blockquote>Or working off exp debt solo with mostly heroic mobs in overland zones before being able to join a group because your exp debt was shared, or trying to recover your shards deep in sol's eye after the group wiped due to the healer going ld and not comming back.Anyway, In my opinion exp is allready too fast and there is no reason to make it even faster.