What do you think Wizards Need to Improve DPS.

[Lady Uaelr]

<p>Please post your ideas. Please make sure your posts are realistic and not overpowered because the ideas will not be take seriously.</p><p>I suggest modification to current spells versus creating new ones.</p><p>Or Abilities that you feel are needed i.e., more casting ability or re-use.</p><p>Or what kind of gear you think is important to the class (no overpowered ridiculous items).</p><p>I will start, here are my recommendations. All my damage spells are mastered  so here it goes.</p><p><span style="color: #ccffff;"><b><u>Spells:</u></b></span></p><ul><li><span style="color: #ccffff;">Rays of Disintegration</span>: should only afffect wizards or should be a faster cast so as not affect other casters too much.</li><li><span style="color: #ccffff;">Protofire</span>: this pet is a let down - I wish it had more hp or did more damage upon exploding and not miss as much - the pet is obvioulsy blind.</li><li><span style="color: #ccffff;">Furnace of Ro</span>: I wish it was catsbale on targets instead of having to be placed. It is just too much effort and planning for this spell. The funniest thing is pre-casting and then the mob is 100m away from it along with the rest of the raid.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></li><li><span style="color: #ccffff;">Ice Spears</span> : I wish it did not get resisted as much as it does and that the debuff actually did something. There is nothig worse than casting it to have 2 spells get resisted afterwards./cry</li><li><span style="color: #ccffff;">Storming Tempest</span>: gets resisted too much and I wish it did not. It makes a huge difference when it does not get resisted.</li><li><span style="color: #ccffff;">Electron Storm</span>: I wish it was on a faster cast since it does mediocre damage.</li><li><span style="color: #ccffff;">Ro's Blade</span>: It would be great for it to proc off spells as well as melee and castable raid wide or work as a group buff.</li><li><span style="color: #ccffff;">Surge of Ro</span>: It would be great if it worked with Fire Shape the way Velium Gift and Ice Shape work together.</li><li><span style="color: #ccffff;">Ro's Coil</span>: I wish it still had the stifle it used to have back in the day.</li></ul><p>Gear:</p><ul><li>Any gear that provides a perfect balance spell re-useor cast  + spell damage + crit is fantastic. I have noticed it is not easy  balancing out crit without losing damage. There does not seem to be enough gear that contain both crit and spell damage. </li><li>I wish there was an upgrade to Fish embroidered Gloves and Klyseer Bracers</li><li>They need to make daggers and staffs euippable in a secondary/ranged slot even if they don't give wizards dual wielding ability they can still benefit from stats and item effects.</li></ul><p>Ok so those are my suggestions. Try to keep the same format so it looks like we are focused and not scatter brained all over the place. No complaining and no discussing any other classes. Let's focus on what can realistically be done to help our class.</p>

[Teh_Person]

My recommendations:-Resists need to be lowered across the board, badly. even fully mastered wizards with disruption at the 520 hard cap see a fair amount of resists. And resists for us aren't like misses for melee classes where they've lost 1 second of a CA and get an auto-attack to show for it. When we get resisted, we've effectively wasted 3-5 sec of a whopping 0 dps.-Rays needs to work. This spell is horribly wrong and broken on so many levels it isn't funny. If you miss your target, the spell acts like a missed CA and totally resets the reuse timer. It has a casting time whereas it's merely supposed to stifle according to the description. The damage is far too low to justify forcing a group of mages to waste 3 sec casting it, along with inturrupting whatever it is they were casting.-Ice spears does nothing. it gets resisted at a rediculously high rate, and the debuff does almost nothing to help resists on most raid mobs. Considering it is the only real debuff we have (because forge of ro is a death wish most of the time, when the mob doesn't move 2 feet and cancel it's effect) it needs to be much, much higher.-Ro's blade doesn't stack with other wizards/warlocks, and the damage is still <100 per proc at lvl 80. It's not scaling properly to level.-I actually think Ro's coil was a step in the right direction, being unresistable and usable with Surge of Ro. It can be pretty potent nowadays if you can use it correctly. The stile is only really useful in pvp anyway.-More casting speed. I want to be able to max this out and double my casting spedd on all spells. It is so much fun to be able to shoot off spells as fast as melee classes can shoot off CAs. This is mostly a personal preference, but would also help greatly on our dps.I think that covers my major complaints at the moment. If even half of those got addressed before the next expansion is out I'd be more happy than SoE will ever know. However, given their track record for fixing classes, that probably won't be the case. They're making some steps in the right direction now, but I think our new AA line for Shadow Odyssey has to really be something to put us back on top of dps charts where we belong. I think SoE forgot that sorcerers give up all safety, utility, and usefulness in almost any setting for pure dps. So when we're not number one in dps, we lose the one point we are supposed to be very best at.

[thajo]

<cite>Teh_Person wrote:</cite><blockquote>-Rays needs to work. This spell is horribly wrong and broken on so many levels it isn't funny. If you miss your target, the spell acts like a missed CA and totally resets the reuse timer. It has a casting time whereas it's merely supposed to stifle according to the description. The damage is far too low to justify forcing a group of mages to waste 3 sec casting it, along with inturrupting whatever it is they were casting.</blockquote>For the way the spell works, that has to be in effect.  So what if you resist it and the other mages who cast it don't?  You recast it and they get another cast?  Sorcs can very well argue it's no good for them being interrupted by someone elses (sometimes it works out perfect though).  There is no reason any enchanter or summoner would not want to have one of their .5 - 2s spells interrupted to drop 10 - 15k or higher.  A necro doesn't even have any spells that do over 3k - 4k on their descriptions really.  As long as you don't interrupt casting a pet or lifeburns.  Enchanters especially because their AA's in action crank their castspeed up during combat all the time, so when they cast it, it often is casted faster than the wizards even, not uncommon for it to be a 2s spell cast for enchanters.  Which an enchanter doing 15k in 2s, let me know how that is a waste of their casting time.If the wizard is smart about it, its great.  Don't drop rays on a single target in the middle of an AoE mob imo.  And have them maybe macro stuff like casting a pet or lifeburning so that you don't bump heads with those things while casting Rays.  Good summoners and enchanters love the spell and the ones who hate it well, im afraid they either have a really dumb wizard who can't use it right or they don't know what they're talking about.

[Teh_Person]

It's not a horrible spell as is, but I take issue with the fact that it doesn't do what the description entails, and even more issue with the fact that it gives every mage about 3k dps for the whole spell (2 sec cast, ~6k damage per person). Yes I'm aware it can be much higher than that, but most mages can parse almost double that as well. Unless you're absolutely sure every mage in the group is waiting on recast of their big nukes, it tends to equate to a waste of time, or close to it. For a brand-new spell with a new cap (the ONLY new spell by the way) it should be so much better than "slightly above what damage the group could do otherwise, and at that only in perfect conditions."

[thajo]

missed my chance to quote

[thajo]

<cite>Teh_Person wrote:</cite><blockquote> Unless you're absolutely sure every mage in the group is waiting on recast of their big nukes,</blockquote>What big nukes are you referring to for enchanters and summoners?  If you use Rays atleast once in a raid, check the parse afterwards.  Rays will probably be their biggest spell hit by a landslide.

[Teh_Person]

One large spell hit doesn't make up for the fact that, in a full group of mages, you're wasting 5 other mages time. You get a ~36k hit, more if you get lucky, but guess what the other 5 people are doing in that time? 0. I'm assuming a full group of mages can do about 18k dps. And even if they can't, my complaint is that this spell is a very, very small improvement over what would happen otherwise, even if you use it at the exact right time. It's certainly not even close to on par with other spells we recieved at higher levels (surging tempest, ice nova, fusion, etc.) And given we're definitely lacking in dps anyway, it might as well be the newest spell that gets a boost.

[Mythal_EQ2]

<cite>Teh_Person wrote:</cite><blockquote>One large spell hit doesn't make up for the fact that, in a full group of mages, you're wasting 5 other mages time. You get a ~36k hit, more if you get lucky, but guess what the other 5 people are doing in that time? 0. I'm assuming a full group of mages can do about 18k dps. And even if they can't, my complaint is that this spell is a very, very small improvement over what would happen otherwise, even if you use it at the exact right time. It's certainly not even close to on par with other spells we recieved at higher levels (surging tempest, ice nova, fusion, etc.) And given we're definitely lacking in dps anyway, it might as well be the newest spell that gets a boost.</blockquote><p>What are you talking about? You don't get credit for damage done by the Rays cast from the other casters, they do. How does that make them do 0? They're just trading the casting of 1-2 of their spells for one spell that does more damage than theirs combined. I don't see how that's a bad deal or a loss in dps for them. Another sorcerer getting interrupted by Rays, sure, I can understand how that would be upsetting. But enchanters and summoners? They love this spell.</p><p>D.</p>

[Teh_Person]

Yeah, I'm sure they all love being inturrupted, and forced to waste 2 seconds on this spell, especially if they were in the middle of a long cast. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Jokes aside, I know they get credit for the spell. But on an individual basis, that's still about 6k damage per person for a 2 second cast. 3k dps. You see where I'm going with this? Most any mage can break that, and while it can be beneficial if timed correctly (and you're lucky enough to hit on the high end of the spell, crit, etc.), it certainly isn't the great huge damage booster fusion was. I don't know, maybe I had my expectations up given our other high level spells like ice comet and fusion were so much better than everything else when we first got them. I'm not saying the spell is a total waste of time, just that it should be better than what it is.EDIT: While I thoroughly enjoy a good argument, I think I've hijacked this thread thoroughly enough to complain about rays. Can we get back to the topic please? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Baynne]

Rays works fine... i use it in raids all the time in the mage group... along with our other wizard, but i actually give a warning whereas the other does not lol.  i hate the mechanics of it, but im sure it works as intended.  when you cast Rays of Dis., all it does it grant you an effect.  whether that effect goes to the finish or not, the spell itself succeeded.  i hhave had it wasted because the effect got interrupted before, it's quite annoying.  as far as general resists I have not really noticed as much of a problem as i use to have. noone will ever land 100% of their spells all the time, so not really a big deal for me.  it would be nice though, if they are going to make me sit there for 3 seconds casting this big old ice comet, if the particles reflected that lol.  i cant even call it a snowball, it is too fluffy.  our hate transfer needs some work i think... 3% just isnt anywhere close to effective, i mean seriously.  3% of a 20K nuke is what... 600 hate? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.  just isnt worth the effort.  i think my biggest complaint about being a wiz, or even any other class in this game, is that you have to rely on getting the perfect group to really shine.  SoE put so much time and effort into making this a solo game, yet you still need a perfect group to do what we should be able to do anyway.  not every player in this game is a hardcore raider, i think soe needs to think about that a little more.

[thajo]

<cite>Teh_Person wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah, I'm sure they all love being inturrupted, and forced to waste 2 seconds on this spell, especially if they were in the middle of a long cast. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Jokes aside, I know they get credit for the spell. But on an individual basis, that's still about 6k damage per person for a 2 second cast. 3k dps. You see where I'm going with this? Most any mage can break that, and while it can be beneficial if timed correctly (and you're lucky enough to hit on the high end of the spell, crit, etc.), it certainly isn't the great huge damage booster fusion was. I don't know, maybe I had my expectations up given our other high level spells like ice comet and fusion were so much better than everything else when we first got them. I'm not saying the spell is a total waste of time, just that it should be better than what it is.EDIT: While I thoroughly enjoy a good argument, I think I've hijacked this thread thoroughly enough to complain about rays. Can we get back to the topic please? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Most spell casts on summoners/enchanters are 1 - 2s really.  Actually most necros love having a 2s or less , 3k nuke interrupted to do 10 - 15kdmg.  You're 6k figure is way under the norm.  Maybe an app2 version hits for 6k.  You are basing your claims on this spell on un-true information, thus making some of your conclusions somewhat contradictory to reality.  Like Rays averageing for 6k.  Fact is it actually averages for about double what you are speculating and a guild with mythicals and M1's, rays should be hitting for 12k+ without a problem.  Many illusionists hit as high as 15 - 18k rays.  So basing it off saying 6k is common, is rather bad information to go off of.You said previously that they don't like having big nukes interrupted.  I asked what big nukes and you still havn't told me what summoners/enchanters big nukes are.  Now you are claiming its damage range, which is quite different than the reality of its damage range.  You are making claims and not backing them with any solid information at all, so I am going to call out those claims because they arn't totally accurate and people shouldn't read them and beleive them.  Were not talking about Sorcs in the group though, warlocks/wizards have a ton of spells that sucks to get interrupted by Rays.  Enchanters/summoners don't really encounter this issue much, maybe except pet summoning and lifeburning.  Which can easily be avoided with the use of macro's and a smart wizard.  To say you are wasting the mages time just isn't true because often it was a beneficial for them to be interrupted and in turn drop 15k, opposed to maybe a necro who was casting Soul Rot and was maybe gonna get a 2 - 4k hit at best.  You suggested a grand total of 36k for 5 mages.  Reality of it is, in a raid with debuffs and all rolling, 5 mages would equal a total closer to 55 - 60k damage and higher, if you add their Rays total damage up, although since each credit goes to the mage, it works.  Also you have to consider that personal base damage and cast speed factor in.  Most enchanters will cast Rays faster than the Sorc who made them cast it.  Their AA line also provides passive base damage which, without mythicals, you may find enchanters getting higher rays hits than the Wiz who made them cast it.  So it actually becomes a BETTER spell for the other mages, than us who are casting it for them in the first place.  And were often doing them a favor more than ourselves for casting it.I know you'd like to stay on topic but, this is on topic, if claims will be made, they will be scruitinized as to how much truth there is to them, to provide accurate information in the end.  Not getting hi-jacked, just nice to provide clarity to broad and general claims.Rays, as far as how useful it is for class types, probably more goes along likeEnchanters > Summoners > Sorceres. If you want me to address the first topic at hand though.Cast speed/base damage (they come in close, base damage has way more value the closer your spell gets to max cast) > crit/reuse (depends how big of chunks they're coming in) >  spell damage, always seemed to by my experience.We also are not "definetly" lacking in dps.  I could disprove this with many wizards aside from my own experience and performance.  Theres plenty of sorcs doing very well on their parses that don't have "all the gear in the game" as many here seem to draw as an excuse to exclude a wizard from claiming the class is not far from their ideal level of dps output.

[Teh_Person]

Hmmm. You're right in that I didn't figure n enchanters' base damage and casting speed in the first place. Really I suppose what it boils down to is "what else is in your group?" And my group (magewise) is usually myself, an illy, another wizard, and a warlock. So personally I might've just had some bad experience with the spell based on that.I'm really not trying to say "down with rays, it's a piece of crap" or anything like that, I guess I was just hoping for something different.As to the rest, we aren't definitely lacking dps, but put a wizard in average gear vs a brig in average gear from KoS and RoK side by side, and on a parse we're certainly not as far ahead as we were before (again, just in my personal experience). Comparing two fully raid equipped wizards and brigands will yield results much like what you'd have expected two years ago, but some of us are still struggling to get anything better than fish embroidered gloves.I'd agree a base damage increase would be great for us, and probably makes more sense than casting speed. While casting speed is really fun, one of the trademarks of a sorcerer is the longest casts for the biggest boom. I'd just like to see the size of the boom bumped up a tad. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[hellfire]

<p>Im a conj and will take rays anytime its casted  the only time it hurts  a conj is  when recasting a pet....and from what have seen only time it hurts necro is when they LB or resummoning a pet.</p><p>There really is no reason in the world a summoner wouldnt want this casted  imo.</p><p>Usually RoD hits for 15-18k.</p>

[SacDaddy420]

<cite>Teh_Person wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd agree a base damage increase would be great for us, and probably makes more sense than casting speed. While casting speed is really fun, one of the trademarks of a sorcerer is the longest casts for the biggest boom. I'd just like to see the size of the boom bumped up a tad. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>good call

[ailees]

I agree with that idea, but of course it means that resists are not so high ! a long casting with a high damage being resisted means you have a healer's DPS.

[Baynne]

i do like the idea of increased base damage, and in that regard, i formed an idea.  since noone i know uses the int line as it currently sits, i think we should change it to where it can be viable in any AA setup.  i wouldnt mind keeping the second ability where it is.. i think it is a melee attack that reduces hate? that is fine.  the third ability increases defense skill atm? useless.  change that to something that increases hit rate of spells, either an extra debuff to cold (seeing as we get an extra debuff to heat with FoR and our biggest nuke is currently cold based).  Or it could be an activated ability that makes our next nuke unresistable (aka Focus damage).  The 4th ability is another passive hate reduction.  as it stands i rarely use my deaggros unless i just have that bad of a tank.  so IMO this too is useless.  besides, you aren't a true wizard unless you are drawing attention to yourself with your huge noticeable nukes.  i think it would be fun to turn protofire into a swarm pet, aka split him up into a few little protofires that do less damage than the normal one, but still more damage overall.  the 5th ability, instead of a duration hate redux proc, turn this into a permanent 5-10% increase to all base damage from our spells.  and yes, it will stack with freehand.  all these ideas do 2 things... one, we get a little more damage and i know that would make some of us very happy.  2, it gives us a little more variety.  right now, there is really only one typical sorcerer spec.  I am not the brightest or most hardcore player, but i had the cookie-cutter spec of 4448 str, 46481 agi, 47481 wis figured out long before i read the raid wizard guide.  i use it for soloing as well as groups and raids, it just works and that is the only spec that works these days.  the only time i used stamina was to tank lvl up to about lvl 61.  and i have never even glanced at the int tree.

[brhead]

<p>My Illy asked me not to cast Rays while PoM is up, I can deal with that.  But with mythicals and 2 Troubs in raid there is very little time that PoM isn't up.  Then in that small window I can use it without upsetting her, I have to determine if I want to cast BoM Fission or BoI which all give me higher net returns.  The worse part of Rays to me is it seems to double cast, weather it by my cast or the other wizard in group, at a much higher rate.  I've even experianced a quad cast on it once.</p>

[Fendaria]

<p>My main concern right now is for the short fights and trash mobs, something to improve our DPS then.  I tossed a bunch of weird ideas in the Warlock forum a while back.</p><p>The one I like so far the most is: Change the end line str ability of the effected spell being a guarenteed crit to the effected spell being 'insta' cast.</p><p>This would let us get another spell in for the short fights while having very little effect on the long fights.</p><p>Fendaria</p>

[Twinbladed]

<p>The origninal order correct me if im wrong for dps was-</p><p>Necro/Conj</p><p>Wizard/Warlock</p><p>Assassin/Ranger</p><p>Swashy/Brig</p><p>Gaurdian/Zerker</p><p>Shadowknight/Paladin</p><p>I could have it confused, but I remember raiding back in the older days and that was about who was expected</p>

[thajo]

<p><cite>brhead wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My Illy asked me not to cast Rays while PoM is up, I can deal with that.  But with mythicals and 2 Troubs in raid there is very little time that PoM isn't up.  Then in that small window I can use it without upsetting her, I have to determine if I want to cast BoM Fission or BoI which all give me higher net returns.  The worse part of Rays to me is it seems to double cast, weather it by my cast or the other wizard in group, at a much higher rate.  I've even experianced a quad cast on it once.</p></blockquote><p>She has 2x potm's and your 22s ice lash damage proc.  She'll get over casting 1 rays while this whole array of other dmg procs are constantly firing off.  It will raise her dps anyway.  All the fast casts and dmg procs probably still won't equal 15k+ triggered dmg procs by Rays, within the 2 - 3s period an illy prolly casts it in.  And yeah Storming Tempest used to work the same way.  You could Tripple and Quad attack it, except it didn't make ya cast it 4 times =/</p><p>Double cast rays im good with, the tripple cast starts to kill me.</p><p>Alpachino, only thing standing out to me is I don't remember when conj's were out dpsing warlocks/wizards on a steady basis.  I do remember necro's being right behind me constantly though.  We should probably just wait till TSO comes out, then figure where wizards land on the chart.</p>

[brhead]

<p><cite>Dakkota@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>brhead wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My Illy asked me not to cast Rays while PoM is up, I can deal with that.  But with mythicals and 2 Troubs in raid there is very little time that PoM isn't up.  Then in that small window I can use it without upsetting her, I have to determine if I want to cast BoM Fission or BoI which all give me higher net returns.  The worse part of Rays to me is it seems to double cast, weather it by my cast or the other wizard in group, at a much higher rate.  I've even experianced a quad cast on it once.</p></blockquote><p>Alpachino, only thing standing out to me is I don't remember when conj's were out dpsing warlocks/wizards on a steady basis.  I do remember necro's being right behind me constantly though.  We should probably just wait till TSO comes out, then figure where wizards land on the chart.</p></blockquote><p> Once apon a time back in KoS conj's were pretty stout dps even an average one could put up numbers.  I think Ishbu was pretty much owning the parse at Disso.  But pet mechanics and lack of AoE encounters have changed that. </p>

[thajo]

<p>I know who all those people are :p</p><p>I just mean I always saw good summoners right on the tail of good sorcs..which is how it should generally be.  Summoners need some lovins!</p>