Defiler Basics? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Dvashj

10-08-2008, 10:30 AM

Hiya!I'm a pretty new (returning) player, and have just rolled a Defiler.I used to have a level 40 Mystic. But that was before I quit playing.So in any case, I'm wondering if people can give me a quick guide to being a Defiler.There are some things I was wondering about...* How can I be a good healer if it causes me damage? o.O* What are the important stats for a Defiler?* What are good AA Lines to go for?* What are the main differences between a Defiler and a Mystic?* And yeah... If anyone could give me any more tips that would be very cool!Thanks much in advance. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Besual

10-09-2008, 04:55 AM

<cite>Dvashj wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hiya!I'm a pretty new (returning) player, and have just rolled a Defiler.I used to have a level 40 Mystic. But that was before I quit playing.So in any case, I'm wondering if people can give me a quick guide to being a Defiler.There are some things I was wondering about...* How can I be a good healer if it causes me damage? o.OOur direct heals use HP and mana. That is right. But we use less mana then other healers do. You are low on HP? Target yourself and heal. You are low on mana? ... And we get a HP-regen-buff that helps keeping your HP up. But the direct heals should be only used after wards / debuffs. Then wards and debuffs are our strenght.* What are the important stats for a Defiler?WIS and INT because we are more casters then melee guy. If you solo alot having a decent AGI / STR will help: AGI to get hit less often, STR to do a bit more auto attack damage.* What are good AA Lines to go for?Depends on play style. For solo I would go STR (all) / AGI (all) / STA (till double attack / block) / INT (till spell critt)For group play I would go for STR (all) / WIS (all) and then you can decide AGI (till heal critts) for more healing / melee DPS or INT (till spell critt) for more caster DPS.In the EoF tree I would put 5 points into "Bane of Warding" improvment. After that... it's up to you.* What are the main differences between a Defiler and a Mystic?Defilers are cool, Mystics are... tree huggers <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Beside this mystics can get a melee AA spec while defilers are more focused on spell based DPS. And mystics buff a bit more while defilers debuff a abit more. * And yeah... If anyone could give me any more tips that would be very cool!Roll an Iksar because all softskins are ... well, just weak softskins <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> And try to keep all skills at max. You might find a good crushing weapon and only use it. But 10 levels later you may find a great spear but your piercing skill sucks...Thanks much in advance. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>

Sedenten

10-09-2008, 04:05 PM

I'll take a stab at this and give my opinion:* How can I be a good healer if it causes me damage? Defilers as well as mystics mainly use wards as the anchor of our healing. Most of the time we focus on preventing damage rather than restoring it. If we do need to heal, our heals are the most power efficient in the game and are only rivaled in strength by templars in amount that they heal. Generally the health cost tacked on to our heals is negligible, and more than offset by our self regen buff and group heals. * What are the important stats for a Defiler?I go for Wisdom/Stamina myself. * What are good AA Lines to go for?I have WIS/STA/AGI. I was full STR line until 70, when I respec'ed for faster cures. STR is a handy line leveling up, and can be useful if used effectively in groups as well as raid settings. I personally do not like it over my current lines. I have always kept WIS and use AGI purely for the heal crits. If I ever get high enough natural heal crit that the AA bonus is not needed I'll likely go down INT or respec for dog with STR. For class, I have Soulward, Curseweaving, and Cannibalize. At the lower levels Canni is huge. Curseweaving is very nice for speeding up debuffs and making them less power intensive. Soulward I do use quite a bit--it has saved my group/raid more times than I can count. I do not feel that Soulward would serve as much of a use in the lower levels, though* What are the main differences between a Defiler and a Mystic?Mystics are a melee based priest, and get class lines that turn their spells into combat arts. Defilers are much more spell based than melee, though we do get some melee AA's from the general shaman AA line. Mystics are capable of doing more overall damage than defiler in most cases. Both classes are heavily debuff oriented. Mystics tend to be huge stat buffers, while defilers have the edge on pure hit point buffs. Defiler heals drain a small amount of hit points but are ultra efficient with larger direct heals, while mystic heals have a short duration hit point buff tacked on. Both have the same basic ward lines. There are many arguments about which is the "better" healer, but I feel they are balanced about the same. Mystics have more utility to offer a non-tank group, while defilers are generally put into the tank group over utility groups in a raid (again, this is opinion).* And yeah... If anyone could give me any more tips that would be very cool!My best advice is to learn how wards work. Both shamans exist to prevent damage before it gets there, and as such wards will always be the first line of defense in any situation. When wards start dropping, we can sometimes have trouble catching up to the incoming damage. When wards are used properly, the group may not think they are taking any damage at all. If you run into tanks that yell at you for keeping wards up while they pull (trust me, you will), it is them with the problem. Prewarding is a good habit to get into, and is essential when you are healing in situations where the damage is heavy on the tank or group. A good shaman is an asset to any group or raid.

Willie_Makeit

10-09-2008, 10:44 PM

Tips? Well, here's something I posted in another topic. It was a response to someone who wanted to be a "better healer". This might also be considered a different take on the class as a whole, especially in terms of soloing. Enjoy. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />**************************************************This is my assessment of Defiler AA's in terms of healing/buffing/anything not dealing with straight-up damaging or debuffing mobs (I'll talk about debuffing in a sec though). This is coming from a person who rarely raids, groups when he can, and solos often. Been playing Shaman (both defiler and mystic, mostly defiler) since I started the game back in....gee.... 2005. I'm not saying I'm an expert or anything, since I'm pretty casual when it comes to this game. But I've been around the block a few times, so maybe my insight could be useful on this.The theory-in-practice is that we're preventers, rather than"straight-up healers" (my own term) like many people new to the game, or people who have never played defilers, think we are. If you hire a defiler into your group, you won't see the tank's health jumping up and down like you would with any other type of healer, specifically a druid. So many people are deceived when they think druids and clerics "do it better" because they make green bars go up quicker. They don't realize that shaman *freeze* the green bars, which is just as effective, not to mention cool. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Granted, certain situations call for certain types of healers, but those situations usually also call for different types of tanks as well...so let's not overlook a defiler's usefulness just because he might not be the best option in *any* situation. I mean, who is? Keep in mind that we are primarily casters in terms of damage, unlike mystics, who can spec down a line that gives them combat arts, effectively turning them into hybrid fighters. Thus, I tend to ignore the abilities that give me +double attack, +melee crit, +block with shield, and all that, since in a group, most of the time I'm not up close and personal with a mob anyway. Auto-attacking mobs actually increases your hate with them considerably, so unless you've got the means to do so, as a defiler it's probably best to just sit back and let the dog do the melee (especially if you go down the Str line), while you cast your dots, debuffs, heals, and wards. That's just the way I play, though. Shaman Achievements******************Strength: This is the prophet line. The best you're gonna get is the 24% on-hit dog ward proc, along with the 14% on-hit AoE immunity proc. "On-hit" means the dog has to actually hit the mob. That's about it for this line.Agility: This is the chieftain line. The best you're gonna get here is the heal crit. You asked "don't you think it's ridiculous" that shamans can only get a measily 16% heal crit on pure aa's alone, but actually it makes sense. Imagine if we traded that with the 100% melee crit, or even the 28% spell crit. I mean, who wouldn't want to be a shaman? Better yet, if we had a straight-up healing line, who wouldn't choose it? You'd be gimped if you didn't, right? That would suck, since there wouldn't be much of a choice in the end. If anything, 16% is plenty, especially when it stacks with +heal crit gear. I think the purpose of the other crit aa's was to balance your character out, since out of the box your already a healer. We're not really known for doing even considerable damage, so that's what many of the aa's provide us with. Stamina: This is the witchdoctor line. Not much here but the passive buff to your double-attack chance, and a supposedly more efficient cure spell. I say "cure spell" rather than "spells" because we only get one panacea-esque single-target cure spell now. In my own experience, the cure spell works rather quickly as it is, both in casting time and reuse....so I don't really see a point in putting points in this. I'm sure other defilers have found a use for it, though, so I'm willing to hear about their mileage. I've heard on certain raids it's an absolute necessity to put points into this. The endline ability, Coagulate, is fantastic, but that's assuming people are dying in your group. Unless you're on a raid or something where a mob can one-shot you (and there are many mobs that do just that on raids, at least in my experience), this ability isn't necessary. Once again, though, I know shaman who swear by it, so I wouldn't knock it until you try it.Wisdom: This is the ritualist line. Ritual is probably the best thing we get in terms of raw-healing. Period. Ritual of Magic does nothing for your ministration skill, so no healing there. And even then, all ministration does is lower the power cost of your ministration skills...and honestly, I never run out of power, since the defiler is hands-down the most power-efficient priest in the game. Ritual of Mind lowers your global reuse timers by 8% if you max it, which has its uses, I suppose. Honestly 8% quicker reuse speeds isn't going to make you a bang bang boogie healer, though, and as you can see, we really don't get much else to boost our straight up raw-dawg healing power but Ritual. The endline ability, Ritual of Alacrity, is nice, but once again, it doesn't boost *your* healing. You could possibly cast it on another healer in your group to boost theirs, though. Intelligence: This is the blighter line. No point talking about this line at all if all you want to do is heal. Defiler Achievements****************There is only one line worth talking about here, and that's the Prevention line. Most of the points you'll put into this line will only decrease the amount of time it takes to recast those spells. The Shroud of Armor enhancement gives you a better replenishing magical ward on that spell, but still...you won't be *healing* better. Now for my own thoughts on the class (as if all this was factual information anyway...lol)Defilers are not straight-up healers, which might explain why we don't get straight-up healing aa's. We prevent damage from happening in the following ways:Warding: This is obvious. I just wish Kunark mobs didn't blow through them so quickly, so we wouldn't have to spam 'em and rely so much on our three long-winded healing spells.Debuffs: I don't know why, but so many defilers don't consider how powerful their debuffs are. Every spell we cast on a mob, besides the fear spell, debuffs it. Not to say other classes don't debuff as well, but holy cow, so far as priests go, nobody can debuff like a shaman, specifically a defiler with curseweaving, cannibalize (not the ability, but the line), and maybe hexation (if they fix the immunity). Then again, that's what it says in the description of our class when you make a new character...we freaking cripple our enemies...we "defile" spirits to disease and poison our foes....honestly, this is what attracted me to the class. ----Opposing view: With trash mobs during a group run, you probably won't even have time to cast *all* your debuffs. You might even think they don't matter. --------On the contrary: That's why it's probably best to just cast your nuke and your dots on 'em to help burn 'em down, since these spells debuff, too. Also, if you spec down the curseweaving line, you'll find your debuffs lasting longer, casting a HECK of a lot faster, costing less power, rarely being resisted by even the strongest mobs, and, what's better, you can cast them quicker and on more mobs. So if your tank pulls three mobs, you can ward him, then get to debuffing like mad. You can "curseweave", so to speak. To me, that's pretty freakin' cool. =) Buffing: We have some crazy buffs for health. We turn puny little tanks into gods, which means there will be less need to straight-up heal them.Straight-up healing: We have three healing spells, four if you count the heal you get from the Crystalize Essence thingy. Three heals, on some crazy casting times and reuse timers. Does this mean we're not meant to heal? No, but it does mean we aren't meant to spend most of our time doing it. Bottomline, we're preventers, which could explain why we don't get many straight-up healing aa's. With the recent patch, our mythical gives us +heal crit, which is pretty cool. And gear-wise, you can get some nice +heal amount stuff in Kunark, even if you aren't hardcore (the enigmatic sacrifice set is particularly good). *************How I Play (my aa spec, and what I like to do with my defiler)This has nothing to do with your topic, since you wrote, "I was wondering what AA lines other defilers would suggest for a defiler that isnt about raising up his own DPS" but I just thought I'd mention it anyway, since I'm already on a roll, ya know.*************Many will think the way I play is inefficient, but I'd have to ask...what is efficiency? Before you answer, consider this: I don't raid much. I solo often. I group when I can. Therefore, I am as awesome as I need to be. =) That said, I don't think there's a right or wrong way to play your class, so long as you are doing what you need to do. Shaman ******Str: Max everything here but the actual Str aa itself. Get the endline ability. It's a must.Agil: NothingStam: NothingWis: 4 into wis, 6 or 7 (forgot) into RitualInt: Max everything here but the int itself. The global magical resists are nice on Immunities. Nothing spectacular, but every bit helps. Don't worry about scourge unless you pvp.*****Defiler*****----Max the cannibalize line, including defile if you use it often. I do. Don't worry about pandemonium until they decide to fix it. I had an extra 5 points and was feeling a little crazy at the time, so I went ahead and maxed it. At least now it's faster, so there's more reason for me to cast it in a group setting. Get the endline ability, and use it before you defile or pandemoniumize. I've heard that ritual followed by cannibalize nets you more power...but I've yet to see the difference. I'm sure it does, but I usually just cast a heal after Ritual, so I'd like to test this before I verify it.----Max cursing line, except the fear spell. Get the endline ability "curseweaving". You'll love it if you like to debuff like I do.--------Notes on the fear spell: This spell is as good of a "mez" as we'll get, but you have to be careful. If you cast this while a million other social mobs are standing around, you're gonna be in a world of hurt. This is how I do it, though. Solo (in Kunark especially) I'll make sure no one else is around that could aggro off this mob. Then I'll pull with the fear spell. While the mob is walking around unwittingly, I'll cast all my debuffs on him. Because I have curseweaving this takes no time at all. I'll also ward up real quick if he hits particularly hard, otherwise I won't bother, since my dog does a good amount of the warding for me. Then to break the fear I'll nuke him with imprecate, then I'll sick the dog on him, cast my dots, defile, and pandemonium to finish it off. Works like wonders. You're not getting hit while you're debuffing 'em...----Max potency. That means max Curse of Warding (whatever it's called), Tendrils, and Invective. That makes those spells proc more often, which is awesome. Put one point into Crystalize Essence just to open up Hexation. I like Hexation because I like to curse and debuff. Plus it's pretty good. =) *********** And that's it. Depending on how attentively you followed my little guide, you'll have some points left over, so you can put those where you wish. It really won't make or break you. With this set up, I find that not only do I do more dps, but I debuff better.Can't really do much for your straight-up healing with the aa trees, and that seems to be the bottom line. If anything, depending on your situation, you can always use the mirror and switch in some different gear. **********And that's all I have to say about that. This isn't saying the way I play is right, or that someone else doesn't have a difference in opinion. I just like playing like this. It's fun for me.Wow....I never thought I'd write a thesis paper on a video game...*passes out*

Dvashj

10-10-2008, 02:14 PM

Hey, thanks for the reply everyone! This has shed many lights on the Defiler class for me. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Sedenten

10-13-2008, 01:16 PM

<cite>Willie_Makeit wrote:</cite><blockquote> Defiler*****----Max the cannibalize line, including defile if you use it often. I do. Don't worry about pandemonium until they decide to fix it. I had an extra 5 points and was feeling a little crazy at the time, so I went ahead and maxed it. At least now it's faster, so there's more reason for me to cast it in a group setting. Get the endline ability, and use it before you defile or pandemoniumize. I've heard that ritual followed by cannibalize nets you more power...but I've yet to see the difference. I'm sure it does, but I usually just cast a heal after Ritual, so I'd like to test this before I verify it.</blockquote>They fixed the bolded part--Ritual no longer helps power returns. At one time, it would make Canni give back approximately 13-14% instead of 10%. It also used to help Soul Cannibalize, Pandemonium (the mana portion), and item clicks like mana stone. A few patches ago they fixed this functionality.I will say you have a unique AA setup. I will point out (as I do quite a bit on these threads) that the reuse time from WIS is big for situations when the healing is heavy. The more often you can cast your wards, the less it matters that they are falling quickly. That 8% may not seem like much, but when stacked alongside items with reuse bonus and coercive healing/time compression, the difference is dramatic and turns an impossible healing situation into manageable.But, the way EQ2 AA's are set up are made for variety!

Karlen

10-18-2008, 08:45 AM

>>>Agility: This is the chieftain line. The best you're gonna get here is the heal crit. You asked "don't you think it's ridiculous" that shamans can only get a measily 16% heal crit on pure aa's alone, but actually it makes sense. Imagine if we traded that with the 100% melee crit, or even the 28% spell crit.<<<If you solo a lot, don't discount the AGI line, especially the final ability. I use a +STR/+AGI Mastercrafted Bo Staff and load up on +STR and do a LOT of damage. 100% melee crits means that you will critically hit 100% of the time. That means pretty much every single hit. If you keep your weapon skills up, you shouldn't have trouble hitting. The final AGI ability triggers in most fights -- double attack crits are quite nice. I can generally autoattack white mobs to death which means it doesn't really matter a lot what other AAs you take.