EQ2 freezes with U49 on a 3.06 P4 with HT with Vista [Archive]

chogan

10-07-2008, 10:19 PM

Windows Vista reports my HT processor as 2 entities in Device Manager. When starting everquest the screen flashes into fullscreen mode then disappears. EQ2 Mouse icon is still displayed and sound is playing in background. Task Manager reports about 16% processor ussage by EQ2. My thoughts are EQ2 is attempting to run on my virtual CPU seen in device manager while the sound thread is running on actual CPU. Work around: <ol><li>Enter bios and disable hyper threading support</li><li>Run EQ2</li><li>Reboot, enter bios and re enable hyper threading support</li><li>Run EQ2 normally</li></ol>another easier work around is to addcl_multicore falseline into eq2_recent.ini in the eq2 folderdefault position is betweencl_screenrefreshr_reuse_vertex_buffersEDIT: typo with eq2_recent.ini. My 1 and n keys are not very reliable...

Autenil

10-07-2008, 11:55 PM

<cite>chogan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Windows Vista reports my HT processor as 2 entities in Device Manager. When starting everquest the screen flashes into fullscreen mode then disappears. EQ2 Mouse icon is still displayed and sound is playing in background. Task Manager reports about 16% processor ussage by EQ2. My thoughts are EQ2 is attempting to run on my virtual CPU seen in device manager while the sound thread is running on actual CPU. Work around: <ol><li>Enter bios and disable hyper threading support</li><li>Run EQ2</li><li>Reboot, enter bios and re enable hyper threading support</li><li>Run EQ2 normally</li></ol>another easier work around is to addcl_multicore falseline into eq2_recet.ini in the eq2 folderdefault position is betweencl_screenrefreshr_reuse_vertex_buffers</blockquote>Multi-core support will definitely have to be disabled for hyper-threading (HTT) processors as they are not true 'multi-core'. I looked into having EQII detect HTT and automatically disable the multi-core system, but unfortunately it is not trivial.

Gutterfly

10-08-2008, 12:53 AM

While I am most definately NOT arguing with the great Autenil, I'm running a P4 3GHz HT cpu on XP Pro and have had absolutely no issues whatsoever on test or on live using multicore enabled....and yes, I'm seeing performance increases and EQ2 spreading it out on both psuedo cores.*taken with a grain of salt and hoping I don't start seeing issues now that I have posted this*

Autenil

10-08-2008, 02:26 AM

<cite>Gutterfly@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>While I am most definately NOT arguing with the great Autenil, I'm running a P4 3GHz HT cpu on XP Pro and have had absolutely no issues whatsoever on test or on live using multicore enabled....and yes, I'm seeing performance increases and EQ2 spreading it out on both psuedo cores.*taken with a grain of salt and hoping I don't start seeing issues now that I have posted this*</blockquote>Glad to hear it! If you have an HTT processor and it's working for you, more power to you! If it's causing lag or worse performance, that's actually more what I'd expect given that the client's multi-core support expects two or more CPUs and HTT is less than two.

Detor

10-08-2008, 08:41 AM

<cite>Autenil wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Multi-core support will definitely have to be disabled for hyper-threading (HTT) processors as they are not true 'multi-core'. I looked into having EQII detect HTT and automatically disable the multi-core system, but unfortunately it is not trivial.</blockquote>Intel is going to have a new architecture next year (Intel Core i7) that will have dual, quad, and 8-core desktop systems that will all have hyperthreading as well to appear to be 4, 8, and 16 cores respectively. Forward looking, even if you find a way to disable it automatically for HTT you might want to make sure there is an option somewhere so that those with HTT can override it and turn multicore mode back on.

Calain80

10-08-2008, 10:21 AM

Actually every program thinks that it are two cores and can use them accordingly. Until now EQ2 would only use 50% of an HTT processor, if it was enabled, so you will see an performance increase. btw: HTT was only a workaround for really bad processor core design. The P4 was designed to reach large frequency numbers at all cost, so the PR department could advert with "huge real MHz". I think with HTT enabled a P4 can compute about 30% more ops then with HTT disabled. As this is the amount multi threading normally costs, you should now not actually loose performance by enabling HTT. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Agaxiq

10-08-2008, 02:20 PM

As someone who manages systems and has to discern HT/multicore/single core from each other for licensing purposes, here is a tip:If you leverage CIMV2 in any way, you can look at the Win32_Processor class.A Dead givaway is that a processor's ProcessorId will equal "0000000000000000"Another dead giveaway is that they have more than one processor and the second processor's SocketDesignation = "Proc 1", "Proc_1", or "PROC_1"Again, I know you guys use C++, and its probably not cool to hit something as high level as CIMV2, but if you can convert the idea into something else, its there.Intel has a page <a href="http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-64-architecture-processor-topology-enumeration" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here</a> that has some C code which you might be alble to use. I know I had a program called cpucount.exe which could discern logical from physical as well.agressiv

Autenil

10-08-2008, 03:30 PM

<cite>agressiv4 wrote:</cite><blockquote>As someone who manages systems and has to discern HT/multicore/single core from each other for licensing purposes, here is a tip:If you leverage CIMV2 in any way, you can look at the Win32_Processor class.A Dead givaway is that a processor's ProcessorId will equal "0000000000000000"Another dead giveaway is that they have more than one processor and the second processor's SocketDesignation = "Proc 1", "Proc_1", or "PROC_1"Again, I know you guys use C++, and its probably not cool to hit something as high level as CIMV2, but if you can convert the idea into something else, its there.Intel has a page <a rel="nofollow" href="http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-64-architecture-processor-topology-enumeration" target="_blank">here</a> that has some C code which you might be alble to use. I know I had a program called cpucount.exe which could discern logical from physical as well.agressiv</blockquote>Thanks for the info. Part of the problem is that we have to be able to detect AMD as well as Intel and I don't have every type of processor to develop against.I actually made some comments on the MSDN <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms686223(VS.85).aspx" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">SetProcessAffinityMask() page</a> with my findings (if you're interested in the technical side of things).

Agaxiq

10-08-2008, 04:03 PM

True, but AMD doesn't use Hyperthreading, and it should be really easy to detect an AMD vs Intel CPU. If you see more than one processor from AMD, you know its at least a dual core.My problem (and why there are so many options for HT detection) is that they implemented Hyperthreading slightly differently in their Xeon chips versus their standard Pentium 4 chips, at least when it came to CPU identification.I doubt you would need to cater to someone running EQ2 on a P4 Xeon with Hyperthreading <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Most of the desktop chips responded in the same way, across all of the Netburst cores. If you see that "0000000000" bit for example you know they have Hyperthreading. The PROC_1 etc all came from Xeons IIRC, but its been a number of years since I had to deal with that.agressiv

chogan

10-08-2008, 07:14 PM

My problem was probably because of vista if no one else with HT is having this issue.Would have been better if the system defaulted to not having multi core support enabled.

WastedChances

10-09-2008, 01:46 AM

<cite>chogan wrote:</cite><blockquote>My problem was probably because of vista if no one else with HT is having this issue.Would have been better if the system defaulted to not having multi core support enabled.</blockquote>Nope, not a Vista only problem. I'm running a P4 3.2 with HT on XP Pro, SP3.Since the game update, I get lockups at random times. At first I thought it was zone related because Iwas in Darklight Wood. I quickly found that it happens in Blackborough, Freeport or any zone. The problemis it's random. I could be on for 10 minutes or 1 hour.The worst part (for me) is that the lockup is a complete system lockup where I have to hit the power buttonand reboot, CTRL+ALT+DELETE doesn't work, neither does ALT+ENTER.To clarify, this is with HT on or off as well as the option enabled/disabled in the game and only since the last GU.

Firecracker

10-09-2008, 03:26 AM

<cite>WastedChances wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>chogan wrote:</cite><blockquote>My problem was probably because of vista if no one else with HT is having this issue.Would have been better if the system defaulted to not having multi core support enabled.</blockquote>Nope, not a Vista only problem. I'm running a P4 3.2 with HT on XP Pro, SP3.Since the game update, I get lockups at random times. At first I thought it was zone related because Iwas in Darklight Wood. I quickly found that it happens in Blackborough, Freeport or any zone. The problemis it's random. I could be on for 10 minutes or 1 hour.The worst part (for me) is that the lockup is a complete system lockup where I have to hit the power buttonand reboot, CTRL+ALT+DELETE doesn't work, neither does ALT+ENTER.To clarify, this is with HT on or off as well as the option enabled/disabled in the game and only since the last GU.</blockquote>I am also having the same problem too, where both of my comps are locking up and I have to reboot them. It's happenning on a avg about every 30 mins for me I would say. Is why I was looking at these threads to see if anyone else having same problem. For I was beginning to think I was only one.

Calain80

10-09-2008, 08:29 AM

I also still use a P4 and I don't have any problems. Played for 8h yesterday without any big graphic lag. Actually my fps went up by about 50% to 100%. I ended up at 25-50 fps (instead of 15-25 fps) while soloing and 8-9 fps (instead of ~5fps) while raiding.

Malloc

10-09-2008, 10:34 AM

I am also having my system completly lock up randomly after the last update.<div></div><div>CPU = P4 Prescott w/HT 3ghz</div>

dissonance

10-10-2008, 02:52 AM

I have a P4 2.8ghz processor with hyper threading running on an Intel 865PE based system board. Prior to this last hotfix I was fine using multi-core and did notice an increase in performance... HOWEVER, knowing that is not the way it should work... I went ahead and disabled it as now following the hotfix I am locking up every 10 or so minutes. My 2 cents. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

WastedChances

10-10-2008, 03:41 AM

<cite>dissonance wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have a P4 2.8ghz processor with hyper threading running on an Intel 865PE based system board. Prior to this last hotfix I was fine using multi-core and did notice an increase in performance... HOWEVER, knowing that is not the way it should work... I went ahead and disabled it as now following the hotfix I am locking up every 10 or so minutes. My 2 cents. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>The problem is, these lockups are happening with multi-core support disabled from the EQ2 options.I know there isn't anything I can do on my end to fix the problem. Prior to GU49 and the support formulti-core processors, I never had any lockups or crashes. I have tried everything from forcing EQ2 touse a specific CPU via Task Manager. Even used my own code that uses the PID from EQ2.exe to set theaffinity.Nothing works and the only thing that has changed on my system is EQ2 from the update. I have allthe latest video / audio / OS drivers so the only other option is there is faulty code in the EQ2 clientthat simply isn't compatible with certain processors.From the looks of it, it appears to be mostly Intel P4 users that have issues. It's unfortunate those ofus that have issues can't roll back the client to the one prior to GU49 until the devs. can get this sortedout.Edit:I suppose there is one more thing I could try: disable HT in my BIOS. I hesitate to do that since I do haveapplications that use HT correctly. I don't like the idea of degrading my system performance for one application.

MacDaddy62

10-11-2008, 03:38 AM

The lock-ups post-LU49 are definitely associated with Pentium 4 Hyperthreading. Even with multi-core support off in EQ2 options, I was experiencing the lock-ups during raids after LU49 and also after Thursday's patch, but after disabling Hyperthreading in the BIOS before tonight's raid, I experienced no lock-ups over the course of 4+ hours. I did, however, notice slightly degraded client performance, presumably as a result of disabling the Hyperthreading. Furthermore, my laptop, which I also regularly use for raiding, is not a Pentium 4 and has experienced no lock-ups. Please fix the issue asap. Thanks.

WastedChances

10-12-2008, 12:45 AM

<cite>Azleya@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>The lock-ups post-LU49 are definitely associated with Pentium 4 Hyperthreading. Even with multi-core support off in EQ2 options, I was experiencing the lock-ups during raids after LU49 and also after Thursday's patch, but after disabling Hyperthreading in the BIOS before tonight's raid, I experienced no lock-ups over the course of 4+ hours. I did, however, notice slightly degraded client performance, presumably as a result of disabling the Hyperthreading. Furthermore, my laptop, which I also regularly use for raiding, is not a Pentium 4 and has experienced no lock-ups.Please fix the issue asap. Thanks.</blockquote>Just posting to support this information.I went ahead and disabled HT in my BIOS and ran EQ2 for several hours, trying as best I could to recreatetimes that I locked up (fighting mobs in Wailing Caverns, etc.) and had no issues.My "educated" guess would be that even with the multi-core option disabled in EQ2, there is still somecompatibility issue with it being enabled for the system as a whole. Like the poster I quoted, I did seedegraded performance overall with HT disabled at the system level.Edit:To reiterate, the game ran without lockups prior to the multi-core support patch even with HT enabledat the system level.

WastedChances

10-12-2008, 02:52 PM

Just checking in to see if there is anything being done about this issue.For the time being I've decided to suspend my account. Having to hard reset a PC can cause corruptsectors on a harddisk as well as corrupt files that are in use by other applications.I enjoy EQ2 and hope a solution for P4 HT users can be found so I can reactivate my account.

Isard

10-21-2008, 06:43 PM

I've had the same lock up issues but not running Vista, just XP Home. I get the issue when raiding or grouping where there are a lot of animations going on. I turned the MC support off and it helped a little (or seemed to) but still getting the lock ups.Anyway, this prompted me to replace my 4 year old system with a nice little upgrade. Hope to have it up and running tomorrow <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

oddball820

10-22-2008, 12:04 AM

<a href="mailto:azleya@lucan" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">azleya@lucan</a> DLere you were saying you were pretty sure the lock up thing was only P4 with hyperthreading i dont think that is it. i have a core 2 duo E8400 wolfdale 3gig and i been having the same problem. im in game and i can run around sometimes for a while, then all of a sudden ever 5min i hardlock and have to reboot whole comp. had a thread going on it and was getting suggestions but then it went dead. nothing seems to work and as a new player to the game im pretty disapointed. im now paying for something i cant use.

oddball820

10-22-2008, 12:05 AM

<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:azleya@lucan" target="_blank">azleya@lucan</a> DLere you were saying you were pretty sure the lock up thing was only P4 with hyperthreading i dont think that is it. i have a core 2 duo E8400 wolfdale 3gig and i been having the same problem. im in game and i can run around sometimes for a while, then all of a sudden ever 5min i hardlock and have to reboot whole comp. had a thread going on it and was getting suggestions but then it went dead. nothing seems to work and as a new player to the game im pretty disapointed. im now paying for something i cant use. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> lol double post 4tw my comp has a mind of its own sometime.

WiseOne

10-22-2008, 03:34 PM

I have also been crashing (complete computer lockups) after GU49 when I previously had no such problem. It doesn't happen very often until I raid with my guild. During raids I am very lucky to make it 30 mins without a full computer lockup now. I have a P4 as well and I'm testing the Hyperthreading disable in BIOS right now but no raids until tomorrow night so no feedback on that possible fix yet. However, even if it does fix the problem it's not a very acceptable workaround as I'm already noticing too significant of a computer performance impact with Hyperthreading disabled in my BIOS.

WastedChances

10-27-2008, 02:35 AM

To people posting here that are still having hardlock issues:If you have a Soundblaster X-Fi (possibly any Soundblaster) audio card, please try switching your audio to Milesfor a few sessions. I have found that GU49 is incompatible with Soundblaster X-Fi drivers.I have tried every available driver to no avail. You can find more information in my post here (as well as anotheruser who tried Miles and "fixed" her problem):<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=0&topic_id=433787#4833952">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...=433787#4833952</a>Note:Miles is a software based engine which uses more memory than the hardware based Soundblaster (EAX)and consequently you may experience "Out of Memory" errors after long play sessions. You may want to slidethe "sound variations" to the middle (if you have it maxed) and also reduce the number of "simultaneous sounds"down to around 15 (I had mine set at 24 for the Soundblaster and don't notice much loss in quality at 15).Also, pay attention to the game. Prior to it crashing with "Out of Memory" (should you experience this), it will becomevery sluggish. Almost as if you're experiencing network lag. I only had it happen twice in a week and both times Idropped framerates noticeably about 5 minutes before the error occurred. You can log out and back in to clear it up.Final request: If changing to Miles helps you, please post here. Hopefully the devs. will notice before I have to createanother thread and risk a forum vacation for spamming <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

LeTaquiner

10-27-2008, 11:40 PM

Just pointing to my experiences (that possibly I started in the wrong thread oops <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" />).<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=422791�">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...422791�</a>Short version of that thread: HTT off and all is well for me - from reading other posts in this thread, that obviously is not the fixitall workaround for all HTT users unfortunately <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

WiseOne

10-28-2008, 05:16 PM

Confirmed that disabling Hyperthreading in my BIOS resolved lockups during raids (only time I seem to lockup). However, overall computer performance is diminished significantly while that feature is disabled so I'm pretty unhappy about the workaround.Processor: P4 3.6OS: Windows XP Media Center

meaogre

10-29-2008, 02:47 PM

Ive been crashing as well from a simple the eq2 client has stoped working error to memory management error. Went as far as reinstalling vista EQ2 and its still happening. Almost bought new ram ran windows memory scan program for 6 hours no errors only to see its happening to others.Intel 8400 (3.0 duel core) 55nm procWindows vista 644Gigs ramNvidia 280 gtxsoundblaster live 24 xternal soundAs you can see its not just happening with the older processors also the new ones.