Shadow Oddessy worth it?

[Crimson Lord]

Why would i want to spend 40 bucks on a expansion that really has nothing worth the cash to spend for it. # Up to 80 levels of breathtaking environments filled with thousands of dangerous quests and hundreds of fearsome creaturesyour 80 with full aa who cares...<p># Three years of continuous advancements and game updates providing content from all three adventure packs and all four expansion packs</p><p>why go to old [arrow] if your 80 already? RE is a prime example of old [arrow] recycling old zones cause your too lazy to make a new zone</p># Colossal continents and zones with a variety of gameplay experiences<p>- Dark underworld dungeons- Treacherous sinking sands realm- Dragon infested floating islands- Enchanting forests and towns- Volcanic tropical jungle islands</p><p>20 new dungeons gee how long will that last before everyone is utterly bored of the zones, a week or two?</p># Master immersive combat, spell and skill systems with in-depth interactivity<p>what your giving another tree, of more than likely more useless junk ex. monk tree</p> <p>conclusion why shell out like 40 bucks for a expansion that clearly is not worth that much seems to me more like a 9.99 adventure pack. Even though they have yet to release how much it costs but usually expansions are around 30-40 bucks</p><p>** Please don't bypass the language filter.  It really isn't too hard to find other words to use that aren't filtered <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Thank you!  -- Kiara</p>

[Vukota]

Of course it's worth it! I went to the FanFaire and will receive a free digital download copy! :p

[Crimson Lord]

free copy of course your gonna say its worth it your not shelling out cash for it

[Kamimura]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote># Up to 80 levels of breathtaking environments filled with thousands of dangerous quests and hundreds of fearsome creaturesyour 80 with <b>full aa</b> who cares...</blockquote>They're adding new AA points, with new trees to spend them in.This expasion feels a little like LDoN from EQ1. Lots of new dungeons, which you get points from, and spend them on new armor and stuff. If you don't like the concept, don't buy it.

[Gargamel]

<p>Same exact argument was made about EoF... so look back on that content and ask youself if it was worth it and make your judgement.</p><p>I, for one, will be purchasing on release.</p>

[-Arctura-]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>20 new dungeons gee how long will that last before everyone is utterly bored of the zones, a week or two?</p></blockquote>(( lol wow you just cant please some people.by comparison RoK had what... 6 instances? and 1 dungeon?heh.   now you get TWENTY and thats not good enough?

[Illine]

If you want to keep playing the game, then yes it's worth it.If you want to stop, don't buy it.That's what i did with EoF ... didn't see the point, so I stopped

[Besual]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why would i want to spend 40 bucks on a expansion that really has nothing worth the cash to spend for it. # Up to 80 levels of breathtaking environments filled with thousands of dangerous quests and hundreds of fearsome creaturesyour 80 with full aa who cares...<p># Three years of continuous advancements and game updates providing content from all three adventure packs and all four expansion packs</p><p>why go to old [arrow] if your 80 already? RE is a prime example of old [arrow] recycling old zones cause your too lazy to make a new zone</p># Colossal continents and zones with a variety of gameplay experiences<p>- Dark underworld dungeons- Treacherous sinking sands realm- Dragon infested floating islands- Enchanting forests and towns- Volcanic tropical jungle islands</p><p>20 new dungeons gee how long will that last before everyone is utterly bored of the zones, a week or two?</p># Master immersive combat, spell and skill systems with in-depth interactivity<p>what your giving another tree, of more than likely more useless junk ex. monk tree</p> <p>conclusion why shell out like 40 bucks for a expansion that clearly is not worth that much seems to me more like a 9.99 adventure pack. Even though they have yet to release how much it costs but usually expansions are around 30-40 bucks</p><p>** Please don't bypass the language filter.  It really isn't too hard to find other words to use that aren't filtered <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Thank you!  -- Kiara</p></blockquote>You don't like it? Don't buy it.

[dawy]

I have to say that this expansion is the first one,in my 3 and a half years of playing the game that i may not buy (probablly will but its the first one i've questioned its worth about)It does seem like a big adventure pack from what little is known about it and theres no getting away from that and frankly thats whats putting me off it tbh.And i'm sorry but you simply cant compare TSO to EoF that was a huge expansion with masses of content to do,this doesnt look anything like that (again from what little is known about it).I just hope i can get excited about it before it comes out

[Kizee]

Should be intresting to see if SoE makes the loot you get from spending points = to raid drops. It seems like they are trying to phase raiding out of EQ2 every patch.

[feldon30]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote># Up to 80 levels of breathtaking environments filled with thousands of dangerous quests and hundreds of fearsome creaturesyour 80 with full aa who cares...<p>20 new dungeons gee how long will that last before everyone is utterly bored of the zones, a week or two?</p># Master immersive combat, spell and skill systems with in-depth interactivity<p>what your giving another tree, of more than likely more useless junk ex. monk tree</p></blockquote>If it walks like a troll and talks like a troll, is it a troll?Everything I have heard is that Crusaders and Brawlers will be extremely satisfied with the additional 60 AAs and that they contain "game changing" and "class defining" stuff, such that keeping agro in fights will no longer be such a struggle.Currently there are 4 instances and 2 open dungeons for level 75-80 players. That number is being increased to over 20. Missions are being added so that doing those dungeons will provide a guaranteed reward rather than running Maiden's Chamber hundreds of times until your set piece drops and then you have no interest in returning.If you really like solo questing, there is a whole new 77-80 overland zone going in which is supposed to be bigger than Fens.Again, it seems like your post is from someone who is jaded and already burned out on EQ2 and no matter how good TSO is, it won't live up to your expectations or revitalize your interest in the game...

[feldon30]

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Should be intresting to see if SoE makes the loot you get from spending points = to raid drops. It seems like they are trying to phase raiding out of EQ2 every patch.</blockquote>The points will never get you anything above low level Fabled. I'm guessing the stuff that will make you more effective in the entry level raids like PR and SoH. It will not compete with VP gear. And I'm pretty sure they are adding raid zones in TSO.

[Kizee]

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Should be intresting to see if SoE makes the loot you get from spending points = to raid drops. It seems like they are trying to phase raiding out of EQ2 every patch.</blockquote>The points will never get you anything above low level Fabled. I'm guessing the stuff that will make you more effective in the entry level raids like PR and SoH. It will not compete with VP gear. And I'm pretty sure they are adding raid zones in TSO.</blockquote>IDK about that. They need to make it better than what is available now or people wont bother doing the dungeon. There isn't a big gap from heroic stuff to end game fabled as it is now. Plus, alot of the heroic stuff IS the best item you can get for that slot.I love how you mentioned SoH as an entry level raid since that zone drops alot of top end items (even better than vp)

[feldon30]

They said that they are going to add items to resolve that. "There is no reason why the best item for a slot should be Legendary/Heroic stuff" is one of the quotes from FanFaire. "Raiders should not need to wear legendary." It will definitely be a tricky balance to add more Fabled loot without it bumping into raid gear. The items that drop from MC and RE2 are very nice and not ridiculously overpowered. Again, are you running heroic dungeons so you can survive better there, or are you running heroic dungeons to suit up to get into raiding?

[Antipalad]

Can you allow us people that already have the game to pass on the bloody all in one packs? We don't need to pay for stuff we already paid for, multiple times.

[Lightstrider]

<p>You're not paying for what you already have...it's simply an added incentive to those coming back to the game or who may be just starting to buy it, so that they don't have to buy multiple expansions just to get caught up.  It's a marketing ploy.  ROK was not significantly more expensive than EOF.  SOE must think it's a successful marketing ploy, or they would stop.</p><p>I don't disagree, however, that it would be nice for those of us who have been buying all along to receive some kind of bonus for that.  Veteran's rewards are nice, but not really comparable to receiving several free expansions in your purchase.    </p>

[DragonMaster2385]

This expansion pack is way more than an adventure pack. Think about the last adventure pack, we got 2 overland zones (about 1/4th the size of fens combined), 1 contested heroic, 2 raid zones, and a couple of instances. This has an overland zone that will be the biggest overland zone in the game, as they said it will be bigger than anything in RoK. It has a new AA tree with an increase in the AA cap, and 20 dungeons. Sorry, but this is easily bigger than KoS and DoF. Up until now, KoS was my favorite expansion; maybe this will take the crown.

[Rahatmattata]

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Currently there are 4 instances and 2 open dungeons for level 75-80 players.</blockquote>I count 7 instances and 3 dungeons.

[Finora]

<p>Same thing has been said with every expansion that offers the old content with the new.</p><p>40 bucks is the standard price for a MMO expansion, whether it includes the old content (which were all usually about 40 bucks each too) or not. SOE has taken to offering all the old content in with the new expansions to make it easier for new subs to get what they need. It could be rather daunting for a new player to want to start a game only to find they need to spend a couple hundred bucks to get caught up with the content and features.</p><p>If you don't think it's going to be worth it, don't buy it at release. Wait until other people do and let you know how it is. /shrug If you still don't think it's worth it, pass it by and wait for the next expansion and get it for free, maybe then you'll feel less cheated?</p><p>I personally think it's worth buying, because I rather like the game and am looking forward to seeing how some of the advertised features are going to work out.</p>

[dawy]

<cite>Diknak@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>This expansion pack is way more than an adventure pack. Think about the last adventure pack, we got 2 overland zones (about 1/4th the size of fens combined), 1 contested heroic, 2 raid zones, and a couple of instances.This has an overland zone that will be the biggest overland zone in the game, as they said it will be bigger than anything in RoK. It has a new AA tree with an increase in the AA cap, and 20 dungeons. Sorry, but this is easily bigger than KoS and DoF. Up until now, KoS was my favorite expansion; maybe this will take the crown.</blockquote><p>For me at least EoF takes the crown as the best expansion pack..in any MMO not just EQ2</p><p>But is there enough to do in TSO for a whole year before we get bored? i'm not so sure there is tbh,but time will tell.</p>

[Pyra Shineflame]

<cite>dawy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Diknak@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>This expansion pack is way more than an adventure pack. Think about the last adventure pack, we got 2 overland zones (about 1/4th the size of fens combined), 1 contested heroic, 2 raid zones, and a couple of instances.This has an overland zone that will be the biggest overland zone in the game, as they said it will be bigger than anything in RoK. It has a new AA tree with an increase in the AA cap, and 20 dungeons. Sorry, but this is easily bigger than KoS and DoF. Up until now, KoS was my favorite expansion; maybe this will take the crown.</blockquote><p>For me at least EoF takes the crown as the best expansion pack..in any MMO not just EQ2</p><p>But is there enough to do in TSO for a whole year before we get bored? i'm not so sure there is tbh,but time will tell.</p></blockquote><p>That's just it...I'm almost 100% sure that there is plenty for me to do over the course of a year but for faster players, it might not. It's kind of hard to balance those kinds of numbers, you know? I'm pretty sure that even the fastest will have at least two months out of it though (makes you wonder how slow I go).</p><p>Either way, I'm definitely grabbing the expansion.</p>

[dawy]

<cite>Pyra Shineflame wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dawy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Diknak@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>This expansion pack is way more than an adventure pack. Think about the last adventure pack, we got 2 overland zones (about 1/4th the size of fens combined), 1 contested heroic, 2 raid zones, and a couple of instances.This has an overland zone that will be the biggest overland zone in the game, as they said it will be bigger than anything in RoK. It has a new AA tree with an increase in the AA cap, and 20 dungeons. Sorry, but this is easily bigger than KoS and DoF. Up until now, KoS was my favorite expansion; maybe this will take the crown.</blockquote><p>For me at least EoF takes the crown as the best expansion pack..in any MMO not just EQ2</p><p>But is there enough to do in TSO for a whole year before we get bored? i'm not so sure there is tbh,but time will tell.</p></blockquote><p>That's just it...I'm almost 100% sure that there is plenty for me to do over the course of a year but for faster players, it might not. It's kind of hard to balance those kinds of numbers, you know? I'm pretty sure that even the fastest will have at least two months out of it though (makes you wonder how slow I go).</p><p>Either way, I'm definitely grabbing the expansion.</p></blockquote>I know what you mean..i still play happily through the first 3 expansions i really cant stand the ROK one and i do tend to aviod it if at all possible (yay still no epic for me) but my main fear over this mission system thingy is that it'll turn out to be along the lines of the dreary world event stuff on the live servers,but as i say time will tell.And yes i'll more than likely get it but as i said in an earlier post this expansion is the first one i've questioned its worth

[Troubor]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote, I reply within his post in <span style="color: #ff0000;">red</span>:</cite><blockquote><p>Why would i want to spend 40 bucks on a expansion that really has nothing worth the cash to spend for it. </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">(That is only your evaulation, but if you do feel this way, why not just not buy it?)</span># Up to 80 levels of breathtaking environments filled with thousands of dangerous quests and hundreds of fearsome creaturesyour 80 with full aa who cares...</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">(They add a new skill tree with 60 more AA's.  The irony, you even mention this later in THIS post.  Then again, I group and raid to spend time with friends just as much as I do to level.  Gee, people grouping for social reasons, what a novel concept when playing a MMO....)</span></p><p># Three years of continuous advancements and game updates providing content from all three adventure packs and all four expansion packs</p><p>why go to old [arrow] if your 80 already? RE is a prime example of old [arrow] recycling old zones cause your too lazy to make a new zone</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">(You do know they are ADDING zones that will be placed in the old zones?  They WILL be new dungeons and instances from what I understand, just that a lot of them might be in Lavastorm or whereever as opposed to new zones.  A lot will be in new overland zones though, the way I understand it)</span></p># Colossal continents and zones with a variety of gameplay experiences <p>- Dark underworld dungeons- Treacherous sinking sands realm- Dragon infested floating islands- Enchanting forests and towns- Volcanic tropical jungle islands</p><p>20 new dungeons gee how long will that last before everyone is utterly bored of the zones, a week or two?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">(Actually, I personally like revisiting some of the old dungeons on alts or even mentoring.  Many of the ones I frequent over and over again I do simply because I do still enjoy them even if I have seen them a few dozen times or more.  Be honest, I think you're more trolling for replies then anything.  If so then well, you got some replies.  Was it worth it?)</span></p># Master immersive combat, spell and skill systems with in-depth interactivity <p>what your giving another tree, of more than likely more useless junk ex. monk tree</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">(LOL..and here we come full circle in a way, you complain about how it's not worth it to group if one is fully capped..THEN point out they are adding a new AA tree..THUS people won't be fully capped!  And more then likely you're just whining to whine)</span></p>  <p>conclusion why shell out like 40 bucks for a expansion that clearly is not worth that much seems to me more like a 9.99 adventure pack.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Again if you don't feel it's worth it, don't buy it.  Your money, your call on that.  But I think I see more content, a LOT more content then a typical adventure pack here)</span> Even though they have yet to release how much it costs but usually expansions are around 30-40 bucks  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Again, might I suggest you don't purchase then?  My conclusion is that either a)  You're upset they didn't raise the level cap to 90, and thus came here to whine or b)  You're trolling for replies.  Again, I will ask if you are trolling if this was TRULY worth it)</span></p></blockquote>

[Aneova]

EverQuest 2 is my game of choice when it comes to playing MMO's, i shell out 33 bucks a month (full access and what not) sure i could split that and play another, but I prefer EQ2, I'll probably croak at my keyboard when i'm 90+ years old playing it if it's still going. I already have preordered 2 copies of TSO one for myself and one for my roomy. I'm hoping to get into beta to also test out the new "shard' system what ever that might be as well as see what the new AA tree will unlock, I know I'm not able to say i've liked all the changes made over the years, but the dev's do their best to give us a game to enjoy and yes spend our hard earned cash on. In my book it's worth the full price of admission, and then some.

[blackdog1]

No matter what Sony does, someone will always find a reason to complain about it before they have even played it. What makes me laugh are the people who complain that there will be no level increase. 75% of all the players probally caped at 80 within 2 months making the new cap level almost irrelevant. Last expanasion people were complaing that they shouldn't increase the cap.

[swedago]

40 US Dollars?  That is the price of McDonalds here in Europe...  Of course it is worth it lol

[Qandor]

<cite>blackdog1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>No matter what Sony does, someone will always find a reason to complain about it before they have even played it. What makes me laugh are the people who complain that there will be no level increase. 75% of all the players probally caped at 80 within 2 months making the new cap level almost irrelevant. Last expanasion people were complaing that they shouldn't increase the cap.</blockquote>Well that was at least 2 months of something to do followed by 10 months of boring vaults, CoA, etc runs. I may be a bit different but after a dozen runs through a half hour instance my eyes start to glaze over. Yes, I have always been in favor of cap increases. EoF managed to be a good expansion with no cap increase but it was a 1-70 expansion with a new race (fae) that turned out to be wildly popular and kept people rolling new characters. New race, new 1-70 content, you can get away with no cap increase. Not that a new race is a guarantee that it will be popular, Sarnak, cough. TSO, no cap increase, no new city, no new race, one overland zone, and 20 dungeons. Of course, not necessarily 20 unique dungeons. They will be hard pressed to make this work for anyone not in love with running dungeons for points. The heroic figure in shining armor, going to kill the feared dragon? Nope. Going to get some points for new armor that will allow him to go get more points. /yawn

[DragonMaster2385]

I am very excited about this expansion because right now, you could (and probably have) run all available T8 instances in one or two sittings. CoA, VoES, MC, Chelsith, RE2, Veksar. Count em; that's 6, and there were only 4 at launch. You're talking 20, more than three times the current available content. Assuming that sizes will be similar to current zones, that is enough content to farm for more than an entire week without starting over if you played every day. It sounds like a small number, but it actually isn't. I hope that the zones vary in size and are not all huge like RE2; CoA and MC are great sizes for me. I also hope that there are puzzles to solve in them and not just clear trash and kill nameds. And for the love of god, add randomization to the puzzles and make us think and not just read a guide on eq2i.com.

[blackdog1]

I guess it's just me but if it is so darn boring why are you playing it? My point being that once you reach the cap limit, usually in two months or less, your right back where you started from. Look I like leveling too but believe it or not that is not the end all be all of these types of games. I really suggest that if playing for 10 months out of the year is boring to you, maybe you should find another game. Or stay away until you can have your two months of bliss every other year.One of the obvious reasons of no new cap limit is th fact that alot of guilds have not seen all the raid content yet. You raise the limit now and all those raid zones become trivial.

[Illmarr]

<cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Same thing has been said with every expansion that offers the old content with the new.</p><p>40 bucks is the standard price for a MMO expansion, whether it includes the old content (which were all usually about 40 bucks each too) or not. SOE has taken to offering all the old content in with the new expansions to make it easier for new subs to get what they need. It could be rather daunting for a new player to want to start a game only to find they need to spend a couple hundred bucks to get caught up with the content and features.</p><p>If you don't think it's going to be worth it, don't buy it at release. Wait until other people do and let you know how it is. /shrug If you still don't think it's worth it, pass it by and wait for the next expansion and get it for free, maybe then you'll feel less cheated?</p><p>I personally think it's worth buying, because I rather like the game and am looking forward to seeing how some of the advertised features are going to work out.</p></blockquote>$40 may be the new standard, but a lot of people remember back when expansions were $24.99 or $29.99 for just the expansion content and you got goodies like a key chain or a collectible coin. I know the $40 all-in-one package is here to stay. I don't even begrudge the fact if it brings new folks into the game easier (Though for this expansion I don't see much of a draw for newbies). But for some people that spent 5+ years paying less than $30 for just new expansion content you're not going to convince them that they are not paying more for content they already own.

[Qandor]

<cite>blackdog1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I guess it's just me but if it is so darn boring why are you playing it? My point being that once you reach the cap limit, usually in two months or less, your right back where you started from. Look I like leveling too but believe it or not that is not the end all be all of these types of games. I really suggest that if playing for 10 months out of the year is boring to you, maybe you should find another game. Or stay away until you can have your two months of bliss every other year.One of the obvious reasons of no new cap limit is th fact that alot of guilds have not seen all the raid content yet. You raise the limit now and all those raid zones become trivial.</blockquote><p>So no cap increase is to accomodate raiders? We may find 14 months from now that some guilds still haven't seen all the raid content, particularly TSO raid content, so what then? No cap increase again but add more raid content? That doesn't make much sense. </p><p>You are right though I should find another game. Unfortunately, there has not been one released worth playing for quite some time now. However, one foot is always out the door. </p>

[Crimson Lord]

if i am understanding this right 20 zones if u honestly think they are putting all 20 zones in t8 well your even more stupid then i imagine. No I will not be buying this expansion for 4+ years i have given sony way too much money for expansion i already had. I draw the line here. Nothing in this expansion has lured me to want to spend my hard earned money to play it. TSO is a joke2 new gods big deal, 60 aa big deal and I will tell u this I am a aa [Removed for Content] but im sorry but 20 aa is not enough incentive to lure me to give them 40 bucks nor is the 20 dungeons which more than likely will be spread out over the span of t2-t8 so i wouln't be surprised if its still 6 zones for t8. In my opinion this so called expansion is worth i'd say about 19.99, not the going price it will be going for when released. I could care less about the level cap staying the same either.

[LordPazuzu]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>if i am understanding this right 20 zones if u honestly think they are putting all 20 zones in t8 well your even more stupid then i imagine. No I will not be buying this expansion for 4+ years i have given sony way too much money for expansion i already had. I draw the line here. Nothing in this expansion has lured me to want to spend my hard earned money to play it. TSO is a joke2 new gods big deal, 20 aa big deal and I will tell u this I am a aa [Removed for Content] but im sorry but 20 aa is not enough incentive to lure me to give them 40 bucks nor is the 20 dungeons which more than likely will be spread out over the span of t2-t8 so i wouln't be surprised if its still 6 zones for t8. In my opinion this so called expansion is worth i'd say about 19.99, not the going price it will be going for when released.</blockquote><p>It's 60 AA and a new tree, not 20aa.</p><p>All of the content is T8.  The dungeons were designed and itemized for level 80. Some will scale down as low as 50, but all start at a base of 80.</p>

[backtostart]

<p>I hope they do phase raiding out. Why not? The game is WoW easy to level in and no one wants to group. So why have content that few people can enjoy. No raids, hradest mobs require 1 group? Maybe thats the way to go. When the game first came out you had to group to do anything. Now people dont have to group to do much of anything but a few raids. I don't see a problem with makeing the game more accesable to more people and I raid so I am not complaining about that.</p><p>I would myself like to see exp loss and not debt, and the game go back more to its origins of group content with the exception of outdoor zones. Dungeons should be hard and killing bears and bugs should be easy. Major quest lines, and there should be plenty, should be very hard, all quest mobs should be trigered spawns, and contested boss mobs should be very hard and rare.</p>

[backtostart]

Gaze i agree with you. You shouldn't have to buy this expansion or any expansion for that matter. It is sony's way of gougeing us. If they really wanted to make money the game and all expansions would be free and they charge 20 dollars a month to play and 25 for a station pass. As far as this next expansion goes i think it will be a good one for most levels with more thought put into it unlike that big grind zone called kunark. I just hope that the next expansion is something completely new like the highbourne zone, which was in eqoa an the story behind the destruction of the endrudites home city and thier migration to odus is a great story.

[Finora]

<cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite> <blockquote>$40 may be the new standard, but a lot of people remember back when expansions were $24.99 or $29.99 for just the expansion content and you got goodies like a key chain or a collectible coin. I know the $40 all-in-one package is here to stay. I don't even begrudge the fact if it brings new folks into the game easier (Though for this expansion I don't see much of a draw for newbies). But for some people that spent 5+ years paying less than $30 for just new expansion content you're not going to convince them that they are not paying more for content they already own.</blockquote><p>I've been playing mmos for a pretty long time =) I remember cheap expansions too. However, I reallize the price of such things has gone up over the years. Everytime any game starts giving out old content with new expansions this same arguement happens. It would still happen if they charged 15 bucks for the expansion (plus the old content). Those that are convinced they are being charged for content they already have would still complain. </p><p>I still say to the folks who are complaining about the price, if you feel like you are being cheated, just don't buy it. Problem solved. Prices usually drop after a few months. Maybe you'll feel better about paying for it at the lower price point several months after it's release. </p><p>I'm personally looking forward to dropping big hints to a couple friends/relatives come the holidays with all in one packs as gifts. Show them to the better side of the mmo gaming world =p.</p>

[Chiyoiche]

If you dont like it, don't buy it...<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I am always amazed to see how many people comeplain about things before their even released lol. I personaly am looking forward to it. And for me, its not just about getting levels, and dungeon crawling...theirs alot more to the game then that... but maybe its just me... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Lethe5683]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why would i want to spend 40 bucks on a expansion that really has nothing worth the cash to spend for it. # Up to 80 levels of breathtaking environments filled with thousands of dangerous quests and hundreds of fearsome creaturesyour 80 with full aa who cares...     <span style="color: #800000;">They are adding more AA, and it's not about exp anyways.  The zones will have new gear, a new "mission" ssytem and they will be fun (hopefully).</span><p># Three years of continuous advancements and game updates providing content from all three adventure packs and all four expansion packs</p><p>why go to old [arrow] if your 80 already? RE is a prime example of old [arrow] recycling old zones cause your too lazy to make a new zone</p><p>     <span style="color: #800000;">Yeah, I hate the way they recycle old zones.  Especially RE2 making some scrub goblins some of the most powerful non-raid things in the game.</span></p># Colossal continents and zones with a variety of gameplay experiences<p>- Dark underworld dungeons- Treacherous sinking sands realm- Dragon infested floating islands- Enchanting forests and towns- Volcanic tropical jungle islands</p><p>20 new dungeons gee how long will that last before everyone is utterly bored of the zones, a week or two?</p><p>    <span style="color: #800000;">With an attitude like that why even play the game I wonder?  </span></p># Master immersive combat, spell and skill systems with in-depth interactivity<p>what your giving another tree, of more than likely more useless junk ex. monk tree</p><p>     <span style="color: #800000;">The monk tree isn't useless and more AA = more customizability = better</span></p> <p>conclusion why shell out like 40 bucks for a expansion that clearly is not worth that much seems to me more like a 9.99 adventure pack. Even though they have yet to release how much it costs but usually expansions are around 30-40 bucks</p><p>     <span style="color: #800000;">I don't see why you're devauleing this expansion so much.  Since you clearly don't care for this game then why should you be bothered to shell out $15 am month to pay the subscription?  Go play WoW or something.</span></p><p>** Please don't bypass the language filter.  It really isn't too hard to find other words to use that aren't filtered <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Thank you!  -- Kiara</p></blockquote>

[acctlc]

They are finally addressing multicore support and graphics engine...Maybe the price of that is a less than fabulous expansion.  Personally I'll take the tradeoff.  So you don't play quite as much and maybe see the great outdoors on occasion, you'll live.

[Troubor]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote, I reply within what I quoted in <span style="color: #ff0000;">red</span>:</cite><blockquote>if i am understanding this right 20 zones if u honestly think they are putting all 20 zones in t8 well your even more stupid then i imagine.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(LOL, do you even know what you're talking about?  Obviously not.  Assuming the 20 zones are all new instances, they SCALE to the party.  Lowest level is 50th, highest is 80th.  SO they will be from tier 5 to tier 8 depending on the level of the party that walks into them.  This has been stated a few times now.  May I suggest a mirror with regards to the "more stupid" comment?)</span> No I will not be buying this expansion for 4+ years  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Okay, feel free to not buy it, it is your money.  Doesn't change my feelings, comments or decisions at all)</span> i have given sony way too much money for expansion i already had.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Since you don't have the 20 new instances among MANY other things in this expansion you don't already HAVE it, but okay)</span> I draw the line here. Nothing in this expansion has lured me to want to spend my hard earned money to play it. TSO is a joke  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(I very much disagree, but fine.  Again your decision.  Have fun lacking this expansion.  If this means you're also leaving the game in general, then I'll make the comment.  May I have your stuff?  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  )</span>2 new gods big deal,  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(I know this won't mean squat to you, but there's all the lore behind said dieties, the fact that the lore involved with this expansion is tying together all the endgame lore from the original game and the other expansions and so forth for me makes it a big deal alone.  But I have a hunch, with all due respect you think Lore is an evil android from Star Trek: TNG and the "brother" of Data.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  )</span> 60 aa big deal and I will tell u this I am a aa [Removed for Content] but im sorry but 20 aa is not enough incentive  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Um.  You first type 60, then type 20.  60 is the correct number.  But whatever.)</span> to lure me to give them 40 bucks nor is the 20 dungeons which more than likely will be spread out over the span of t2-t8  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Okay, this proves you don't even know what you're whining and rambling on about, AGAIN they will be scaling instances that go from 50th to 80th.  Think Splitpaw, if it was set to go from 50th to 80th and not 20th to 50th.  Group of 50's walk in..BAM, the Instance scales to 50th.  Group of 80's go in to the same instance, for them it's 80th.)</span> so i wouln't be surprised if its still 6 zones for t8.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Anyway, you're basing all your assumptions and decision to rant and whine on not even knowing the correct information.)</span> In my opinion this so called expansion is worth i'd say about 19.99  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Great.  Since you're going off of ASSUMPTIONS and not FACTS, we know what your opinion is worth, but okay)</span>, not the going price it will be going for when released. I could care less about the level cap staying the same either<span style="color: #ff0000;">.  (And I feel they shouldn't raise the level cap too quickly, I get disappointed when all of my gear is instantly outdated with an expansion, even if I know I'll be looting better regardless of a cap or not, but whatever.  I'd still be excited about this one if they did raise the cap.  Anyway, enjoy continuing to rant and whine.  But at least if/when you post again, actually bother to get the FACTS straight first?) </span></blockquote>

[Lethe5683]

Actually Gaze, maybe you're right.  This expansion will be bad and you won't like it so don't be bothered to stick around.  You should quit now before you waste any more money.

[dawy]

<cite>Arieva@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>They are finally addressing multicore support and graphics engine...Maybe the price of that is a less than fabulous expansion.  Personally I'll take the tradeoff.  </blockquote>I agree thats theres been much more done on the tech side of things since Bruce took over and lets be honest about it it did need doing,so when you put it like that yes its a trade off but one that we may just have to take this time round

[feldon30]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>if i am understanding this right 20 zones if u honestly think they are putting all 20 zones in t8 well your even more stupid then i imagine. 20 aa big deal and I will tell u this I am a aa [Removed for Content] but im sorry but 20 aa is not enough incentive to lure me to give them 40 bucks nor is the 20 dungeons which more than likely will be spread out over the span of t2-t8 so i wouln't be surprised if its still 6 zones for t8. In my opinion this so called expansion is worth i'd say about 19.99, not the going price it will be going for when released.</blockquote>If you were at FanFaire, rather than arguing about something you don't know about, you'd know that all 20 zones are designed for 80 with 80 loot. Some of them scale down to 70, 60, or 50 depending. 20 dungeons spread over T2-T8? Did you just crawl out from under a rock and not read ANYTHING over the last month?Which is it, 20 aa or 60 aa? The 60 aa points are not "fluff" or "extras", they are class-defining and will close the gap amongst all tanks so that ANY of the 6 fighter classes can effective tank in all situations. The days of Guardians being the only desireable tank will be over.In my opinion, your post is worth precisely $0 since you never bothered to read ANY reports or news about TSO just came to some conclusions based on God knows what you imagined.

[Lethe5683]

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>if i am understanding this right 20 zones if u honestly think they are putting all 20 zones in t8 well your even more stupid then i imagine. 20 aa big deal and I will tell u this I am a aa [Removed for Content] but im sorry but 20 aa is not enough incentive to lure me to give them 40 bucks nor is the 20 dungeons which more than likely will be spread out over the span of t2-t8 so i wouln't be surprised if its still 6 zones for t8. In my opinion this so called expansion is worth i'd say about 19.99, not the going price it will be going for when released.</blockquote>If you were at FanFaire, rather than arguing about something you don't know about, you'd know that all 20 zones are designed for 80 with 80 loot. Some of them scale down to 70, 60, or 50 depending. 20 dungeons spread over T2-T8? Did you just crawl out from under a rock and not read ANYTHING over the last month?Which is it, 20 aa or 60 aa? The 60 aa points are not "fluff" or "extras", <b>they are class-defining and will close the gap amongst all tanks so that ANY of the 6 fighter classes can effective tank in all situations. The days of Guardians being the only desireable tank will be over.</b>In my opinion, your post is worth precisely $0 since you never bothered to read ANY reports or news about TSO just came to some conclusions based on God knows what you imagined.</blockquote>I would <i>love</i> to see that.

[Norrsken]

<cite>Tomb@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>40 US Dollars?  That is the price of McDonalds here in Europe...  Of course it is worth it lol</blockquote>thats definately not true in sweden.

[Norrsken]

<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>if i am understanding this right 20 zones if u honestly think they are putting all 20 zones in t8 well your even more stupid then i imagine. 20 aa big deal and I will tell u this I am a aa [Removed for Content] but im sorry but 20 aa is not enough incentive to lure me to give them 40 bucks nor is the 20 dungeons which more than likely will be spread out over the span of t2-t8 so i wouln't be surprised if its still 6 zones for t8. In my opinion this so called expansion is worth i'd say about 19.99, not the going price it will be going for when released.</blockquote>If you were at FanFaire, rather than arguing about something you don't know about, you'd know that all 20 zones are designed for 80 with 80 loot. Some of them scale down to 70, 60, or 50 depending. 20 dungeons spread over T2-T8? Did you just crawl out from under a rock and not read ANYTHING over the last month?Which is it, 20 aa or 60 aa? The 60 aa points are not "fluff" or "extras", <b>they are class-defining and will close the gap amongst all tanks so that ANY of the 6 fighter classes can effective tank in all situations. The days of Guardians being the only desireable tank will be over.</b>In my opinion, your post is worth precisely $0 since you never bothered to read ANY reports or news about TSO just came to some conclusions based on God knows what you imagined.</blockquote>I would <i>love</i> to see that.</blockquote>They are also revamping teh sk and zerker right now to get them closer to guardians in tankability. these new AAs are coming in on top of that.

[Lethe5683]

What about brawlers?  Avoidance is so broken vs anything higher than white con.

[Guldor]

if they bring zerkers to the level of a guard i have no problem with that. but if they bring sks pallie brawlers and monks to that level too i would have a problem.not cause i will have more competition. but cause those classes got other stuff. like the harm touch, fd, heals and other stuff.why is everyone that creates a plate fighter expect to be a mt class. if you create a pally or a sk you are creating a hybrid between mage healer and tank. you are creating a jack of all trades. sure you should be able to tank just fine. but you should not expect to be on the same level as a guard or zerker. so yeah zerkers need a buff. and sks need to get to the level of a pally. and bruisers need a better raid wide buff so they can compete with the monks for the brawler spot.

[Wolphin]

<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote>What about brawlers?  Avoidance is so broken vs anything higher than white con.</blockquote>avoidance is working just fine if you wear plate... log into the worldwide guadian channel and listen to them talk about getting to 70+% avoidance self-buffed while still having their high mitigation for their plate armor and shields....Now about the AAs they are adding to make brawlers and crusaders more tankish again.... so now we have to pay for AAs to fix what SoE has broken over the last couple years with their combat revamps? We aren't really getting new AAs, what are getting are really just more band-aids to try and fix their mistakes....  can you see their dev meetings? "Hey, what are we going to do with all the other "tank" classes that aren't guardians?" Oh, we'll just give them some AAs to allow them to tank like they used to be able to and then they will be close to what the guardian can do." ...... of course the guardian doesn't need AAs to fix their tank issues, so their AAs will really be new AAs allowing them to do even more stuff, just creating that gap again, unless they make the guardian AAs really sucky, at which point the guardians will all complain until they get bumped up, or they will have to make the brawler and crusader AAs extremely overpowered, at which point the guardians and prolly other classes will then complain and they will get nerfed through a "new combat revamp" at which point, we will all again stink at tanking compared to the guardians....

[Wolphin]

<cite>Guldor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>if they bring zerkers to the level of a guard i have no problem with that. but if they bring sks pallie brawlers and monks to that level too i would have a problem.not cause i will have more competition. but cause those classes got other stuff. like the harm touch, fd, heals and other stuff.why is everyone that creates a plate fighter expect to be a mt class. if you create a pally or a sk you are creating a hybrid between mage healer and tank. you are creating a jack of all trades. sure you should be able to tank just fine. but you should not expect to be on the same level as a guard or zerker. so yeah zerkers need a buff. and sks need to get to the level of a pally. and bruisers need a better raid wide buff so they can compete with the monks for the brawler spot.</blockquote>maybe because when the game was released, the descriptions of the tank classes said that they could all tank the same stuff, they just did it in different ways, brawlers by avoiding hits, crusaders through their spells and warriors through being the classic meatshield ie take a beating and keep on ticking.... but after all the combat revamps that isnt the case now....

[Troubor]

<cite>Guldor@Nektulos wrote this in part:</cite><blockquote>why is everyone that creates a plate fighter expect to be a mt class. </blockquote><p>Well gee, I don't know...someone is in heavy armor and expects to be able to take a blow and protect his group or raid?  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I'm not asking as a paladin to be better then a guardian.  I don't think I'm gimped either.  But I would like it so I'm seen as "equal" for tanking purposes by the community at large, not as a "Okay, we can't get a guardian, NOW let's see if we can get another tank class".  Or seen as "Fine for OT, but MT..erm..only if we must".  I'd like to see the same for the Brawlers too, so that they aren't seen as "just" melee DPS by a lot of the community.</p><p>Is that too much to ask?  If you still say yes, then we're going to continue to STRONGLY agree to disagree.</p>

[Goldburg]

<cite>Guldor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>if they bring zerkers to the level of a guard i have no problem with that. but if they bring sks pallie brawlers and monks to that level too i would have a problem.not cause i will have more competition. but cause those classes got other stuff. like the harm touch, fd, heals and other stuff.why is everyone that creates a plate fighter expect to be a mt class. if you create a pally or a sk you are creating a hybrid between mage healer and tank. you are creating a jack of all trades. sure you should be able to tank just fine. but you should not expect to be on the same level as a guard or zerker. so yeah zerkers need a buff. and sks need to get to the level of a pally. and bruisers need a better raid wide buff so they can compete with the monks for the brawler spot.</blockquote>Sounds like someone is scared of losing a raid spot. Honestly EQ1 is ---> that way, go kiss Frodlin's butt over there and retain your "MT god status" Fighters should be equal, but due to brainwashing, poor judgment and plain idiocy ( Both from the community and development team) brawlers and crusaders are left out. (Also Zerkers) All but guardians got the shaft after DoF and changes made after that expansion, now the egos have set in. Well guess what boys and girls times WILL change and fighters will be equal.

[LordPazuzu]

Is TSO worth it?  Well, that depends.  Is it worth it to you to have access to the content that the majority of the playerbase is going to be using or are you content to solo-leveling and questing your alts through already established content?

[DragonMaster2385]

ha, I wonder how long you will be spamming "80 xxx lfg for instances. No TSO access pst." Due to novelty and the shard system, people will want to do TSO instances over RoK ones. And with 20 different ones, good luck finding 6 people that a) want to do RoK or b) are locked from all TSO zones. Don't buy it if you don't want, but expect to be very lonely.

[Laoch69]

<p>If you don't feel the expansion will be worth it, simply don't buy it.</p><p>I am eagerly awaiting the expansion, as are my friends.</p>

[feldon30]

Folks from level 50-80 will be playing TSO content. Not just 80.

[Kizee]

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Folks from level 50-80 will be playing TSO content. Not just 80.</blockquote>Should be just 80 since that is what is lacking right now.  /shrug

[Galithdor]

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Folks from level 50-80 will be playing TSO content. Not just 80.</blockquote>Should be just 80 since that is what is lacking right now.  /shrug</blockquote>Umm...except that the dungeons scale from 50-80 depending on location of the zone <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[feldon30]

<cite>Wolphin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Now about the AAs they are adding to make brawlers and crusaders more tankish again.... so now we have to pay for AAs to fix what SoE has broken over the last couple years with their combat revamps?</blockquote>AA is just part of the fix. They are making adjustments to the classes themselves. AA will help, but you'll already be better off just by going to TSO.

[Troubor]

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Folks from level 50-80 will be playing TSO content. Not just 80.</blockquote>Should be just 80 since that is what is lacking right now.  /shrug</blockquote><p>Why should it be JUST 80th.  Don't want to flame but IMO that is short sighted to ONLY look at the end game tiers each time.</p><p>Or to put it another way does it matter that they found a way to make an end game expansion that also gives some of the same content to tier 6 and 7 players?  Why should it matter to you that they have?</p>

[Rashaak]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why would i want to spend 40 bucks on a expansion that really has nothing worth the cash to spend for it. # Up to 80 levels of breathtaking environments filled with thousands of dangerous quests and hundreds of fearsome creaturesyour 80 with full aa who cares...<p># Three years of continuous advancements and game updates providing content from all three adventure packs and all four expansion packs</p><p>why go to old [arrow] if your 80 already? RE is a prime example of old [arrow] recycling old zones cause your too lazy to make a new zone</p># Colossal continents and zones with a variety of gameplay experiences <p>- Dark underworld dungeons- Treacherous sinking sands realm- Dragon infested floating islands- Enchanting forests and towns- Volcanic tropical jungle islands</p><p>20 new dungeons gee how long will that last before everyone is utterly bored of the zones, a week or two?</p># Master immersive combat, spell and skill systems with in-depth interactivity <p>what your giving another tree, of more than likely more useless junk ex. monk tree</p>  <p>conclusion why shell out like 40 bucks for a expansion that clearly is not worth that much seems to me more like a 9.99 adventure pack. Even though they have yet to release how much it costs but usually expansions are around 30-40 bucks</p><p>** Please don't bypass the language filter.  It really isn't too hard to find other words to use that aren't filtered <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Thank you!  -- Kiara</p></blockquote>You don't have to buy it, but you'll find that you'll be one of the few who don't, and miss out on new gear, new dieties, new zones, new lore, new instance dungeons to conquer, new AA trees that could enhance your character even further, etc. There is no obligation to buy, thats your choice...as for thinking your class's AA's are broken...well, your not the only one. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Everyone thinks there class is broken, or AA's are borked, etc...but most likely it means...it's just not the right class for what you are looking for.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kizee]

<cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Folks from level 50-80 will be playing TSO content. Not just 80.</blockquote>Should be just 80 since that is what is lacking right now.  /shrug</blockquote><p>Why should it be JUST 80th.  Don't want to flame but IMO that is short sighted to ONLY look at the end game tiers each time.</p><p>Or to put it another way does it matter that they found a way to make an end game expansion that also gives some of the same content to tier 6 and 7 players?  Why should it matter to you that they have?</p></blockquote>Because the endgame will be the mid level game in a couple of expansions. It is stupid to lopside the game by keep adding content to the lower levels when there is PLENTY there to do already.The endgame will always be lacking content sinc there is only so much SoE can add into an expansion when they up the levels.

[DragonMaster2385]

lets break it down: All instances being level locked somewhere between 70-80: T8 additions - 20 new instances! Some instances fluxuating between 50-80: T8 additions - 20 new instances! What's the problem? All content and rewards are centering around level 80 and scaling DOWN, so you don't have to worry about content being out of wack due to scaling. And THANK GOD they are encouraging grouping for the lower levels.

[Gargamel]

Actually only a few of the 20 scale down to 50... more scale to 70, all have an 80 version -- some only an 80 version.In any case it works for me.  I just hope the raid zones are fleshed out and not on the weak side (like Thugga and Pawbuster)

[DobyMT]

To the OP. Short answer? No.

[Troubor]

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Folks from level 50-80 will be playing TSO content. Not just 80.</blockquote>Should be just 80 since that is what is lacking right now.  /shrug</blockquote><p>Why should it be JUST 80th.  Don't want to flame but IMO that is short sighted to ONLY look at the end game tiers each time.</p><p>Or to put it another way does it matter that they found a way to make an end game expansion that also gives some of the same content to tier 6 and 7 players?  Why should it matter to you that they have?</p></blockquote>Because the endgame will be the mid level game in a couple of expansions. It is stupid to lopside the game by keep adding content to the lower levels when there is PLENTY there to do already.The endgame will always be lacking content sinc there is only so much SoE can add into an expansion when they up the levels.</blockquote><p>This game isn't JUST the endgame though.  Again, it's short sighted to see it that way.  Maybe there's "plenty" to do, but at least with DoF and the parts of the original game that have yet to be revamped, it's outdated.  Why not focus on ALL of the game so that ALL of the players, not JUST the endgame players get to enjoy it?  Yes, I have one level 80, fully tier 8 fabled, even have my mythical now.  But I have characters that aren't endgame and I enjoy playing those lower tiers too.  A lot of people do so, not everyone just thinks "get to the level cap, the rest shouldn't almost not exist, just get me to 80th".  </p><p>Anyway, your last sentence is almost moot since SOE found a way to add to the endgame yet also cover tier 6 and 7..and since the dungeons scale, I'd think it not that hard to set it so they scale upward also.  Again, is that somehow bad?  If/when the cap is raised to 90th, I'm sure it won't be difficult to make it so the dungeons that scale ALSO go to 90th.  Gee, dungeons that are forever useful.  No, that doesn't sound like a bad concept to me at all.  I hope they take the time and at least with every instance make it so it scales over two or three tiers also.  Have the tier 3 instances scale from tier 2 to tier 4 or 5 for instance.  And so forth.</p>

[troodon]

<p>To the OP, you sound like an incredibly annoying person.  Do you have friends irl?</p>

[bluefish]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>if i am understanding this right 20 zones if u honestly think they are putting all 20 zones in t8 well your even more stupid then i imagine. No I will not be buying this expansion for 4+ years i have given sony way too much money for expansion i already had. I draw the line here. Nothing in this expansion has lured me to want to spend my hard earned money to play it. TSO is a joke2 new gods big deal, 60 aa big deal and I will tell u this I am a aa [Removed for Content] but im sorry but 20 aa is not enough incentive to lure me to give them 40 bucks nor is the 20 dungeons which more than likely will be spread out over the span of t2-t8 so i wouln't be surprised if its still 6 zones for t8. In my opinion this so called expansion is worth i'd say about 19.99, not the going price it will be going for when released. I could care less about the level cap staying the same either. </blockquote>Dude, you are obviously not happy playing the game anymore .. so just QUIT! Turn off your computer , go outside and experience a real life world out there.Please do yourself a favor, quit playing before you turn into a bitter 45 year old living in mom and dad's basement

[feldon30]

As others already said, the way they are adding the dungeons means that level 80 have 20 dungeons to choose from. Some of those dungeons are ALSO available at 40 and a couple are 70-80. There is tons of 60-70 group content so there will be a full range of dungeons for all 50-80 without 80's feeling "left out".Kunark gave us 70% solo 20% raid 10% group.TSO gives us 70% group 20% solo 10% raid.I'm also glad to see that the new raid zones will be Shard of Hate style, starting with very easy (any casual pickup raid can kill the initial trash and first 1-2 nameds) ramping up to some of the hardest encounters in the game. As long as the loot is appropriate it sounds good to me.

[surepaw]

Then do not purchase it. It may not be worth it to you, fine.SOE could instead just not add any free stuff throughout the year, like Veksar, SoH, RE2, etc. and just add them with the expansion so you "feel" as though you are getting your money's worth. Bottom line is, if you are burnt out stop playing. Noone is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to purchase the x-pack. come back next fall and get TSO free with the next x-pack, 2 for the price of one, maybe then you will feel justified in paying your $40. One more thing, you may want to take a bath, you smell like a troll...........come to think of it, you kind of look like one too.Edit: ooops.........

[Articulas]

y'all know what. he asked some interesting questions, and i'll be honest, i've only seen flames pointed at him. So, I'm very close to not purchasing it myself due to the fact that no one can answer him at all. seriously, if all you people can do is flame to get your point across your only hurting the product you like. I think i'll hold off on pre-ordering it at all.

[Scrappe]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why would i want to spend 40 bucks on a expansion that really has nothing worth the cash to spend for it. # Up to 80 levels of breathtaking environments filled with thousands of dangerous quests and hundreds of fearsome creaturesyour 80 with full aa who cares...<p># Three years of continuous advancements and game updates providing content from all three adventure packs and all four expansion packs</p><p>why go to old [arrow] if your 80 already? RE is a prime example of old [arrow] recycling old zones cause your too lazy to make a new zone</p># Colossal continents and zones with a variety of gameplay experiences<p>- Dark underworld dungeons- Treacherous sinking sands realm- Dragon infested floating islands- Enchanting forests and towns- Volcanic tropical jungle islands</p><p>20 new dungeons gee how long will that last before everyone is utterly bored of the zones, a week or two?</p># Master immersive combat, spell and skill systems with in-depth interactivity<p>what your giving another tree, of more than likely more useless junk ex. monk tree</p> <p>conclusion why shell out like 40 bucks for a expansion that clearly is not worth that much seems to me more like a 9.99 adventure pack. Even though they have yet to release how much it costs but usually expansions are around 30-40 bucks</p></blockquote>Heya Gaze. Honestly man, it's sounds like youre bored in general with the game. That's not to your discredit. Chances are you've seen the same follies repeated over and again. I'm pretty down on SOE now after they gutted EQ2 with RoK. I have every reason in the world to give em the finger. But I must admit, with the exception of the continuing summoner pet problems and poor summoner AAs (in the new xpac), the xpac itself sounds pretty good. It sounds like a return to original EQ2. The things is though, I have dealt with so much foolishness, brokenness and ignoring of the classes that interest me, I'm just not up-in-arms anymore. I'm apathetic to any worthy excitement about this game. I'm not interested anymore in screaming or even whispering to get anything fixed, nor do I even care if my peers write 50 page constructive threads designed to entice devs to repair exactly what I've been complaining about. I'm not interested in threats of account cancellation (of which I have 3 and two are currently cancelled) nor even a suggestion that I might.I'm burned and bored. It sounds like you are too. No need to blame SOE. The game was stellar for a while, so that was much appreciated. But all good things...I'm not even sure why I havent cancelled my last account yet... hmm.

[Freliant]

<cite>Articulas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>y'all know what. he asked some interesting questions, and i'll be honest, i've only seen flames pointed at him. So, I'm very close to not purchasing it myself due to the fact that no one can answer him at all. seriously, if all you people can do is flame to get your point across your only hurting the product you like. I think i'll hold off on pre-ordering it at all. </blockquote><p>Those that can answer are under the NDA. The OP stated the following:</p><p>1) You are just running on the same hamster wheel</p><p>True, and that is what a game is. You are not changing the world, you are not altering the timeline, you are just quite frankly having fun. If you are not having fun and want to, then just go do something else. Me, EQ2 has given me tons of fun, and I am sure there is more to come.</p><p>Be patient if you want, but if not, don't worry about the door shutting behind you, you don't want to be in that room anyways.</p><p>Besides, show me any other rea life activity that you pay $40.00 for and will entertain you for a full 2 weeks <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Articulas]

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Articulas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>y'all know what. he asked some interesting questions, and i'll be honest, i've only seen flames pointed at him. So, I'm very close to not purchasing it myself due to the fact that no one can answer him at all. seriously, if all you people can do is flame to get your point across your only hurting the product you like. I think i'll hold off on pre-ordering it at all. </blockquote><p>Those that can answer are under the NDA. The OP stated the following:</p><p>1) You are just running on the same hamster wheel</p><p>True, and that is what a game is. You are not changing the world, you are not altering the timeline, you are just quite frankly having fun. If you are not having fun and want to, then just go do something else. Me, EQ2 has given me tons of fun, and I am sure there is more to come.</p><p>Be patient if you want, but if not, don't worry about the door shutting behind you, you don't want to be in that room anyways.</p><p>Besides, show me any other rea life activity that you pay $40.00 for and will entertain you for a full 2 weeks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>Cable.

[Freliant]

<cite>Articulas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Articulas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>y'all know what. he asked some interesting questions, and i'll be honest, i've only seen flames pointed at him. So, I'm very close to not purchasing it myself due to the fact that no one can answer him at all. seriously, if all you people can do is flame to get your point across your only hurting the product you like. I think i'll hold off on pre-ordering it at all. </blockquote><p>Those that can answer are under the NDA. The OP stated the following:</p><p>1) You are just running on the same hamster wheel</p><p>True, and that is what a game is. You are not changing the world, you are not altering the timeline, you are just quite frankly having fun. If you are not having fun and want to, then just go do something else. Me, EQ2 has given me tons of fun, and I am sure there is more to come.</p><p>Be patient if you want, but if not, don't worry about the door shutting behind you, you don't want to be in that room anyways.</p><p>Besides, show me any other rea life activity that you pay $40.00 for and will entertain you for a full 2 weeks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>Cable. </blockquote>Didn't know cable was an "activity" or that cheap...

[Leenee]

<cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>blackdog1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I guess it's just me but if it is so darn boring why are you playing it? My point being that once you reach the cap limit, usually in two months or less, your right back where you started from. Look I like leveling too but believe it or not that is not the end all be all of these types of games. I really suggest that if playing for 10 months out of the year is boring to you, maybe you should find another game. Or stay away until you can have your two months of bliss every other year.One of the obvious reasons of no new cap limit is th fact that alot of guilds have not seen all the raid content yet. You raise the limit now and all those raid zones become trivial.</blockquote><p>So no cap increase is to accomodate raiders? We may find 14 months from now that some guilds still haven't seen all the raid content, particularly TSO raid content, so what then? No cap increase again but add more raid content? That doesn't make much sense. </p><p>You are right though I should find another game. Unfortunately, there has not been one released worth playing for quite some time now. However, one foot is always out the door. </p></blockquote><p>Can I have your stuff??<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Articulas]

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Articulas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Articulas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>y'all know what. he asked some interesting questions, and i'll be honest, i've only seen flames pointed at him. So, I'm very close to not purchasing it myself due to the fact that no one can answer him at all. seriously, if all you people can do is flame to get your point across your only hurting the product you like. I think i'll hold off on pre-ordering it at all. </blockquote><p>Those that can answer are under the NDA. The OP stated the following:</p><p>1) You are just running on the same hamster wheel</p><p>True, and that is what a game is. You are not changing the world, you are not altering the timeline, you are just quite frankly having fun. If you are not having fun and want to, then just go do something else. Me, EQ2 has given me tons of fun, and I am sure there is more to come.</p><p>Be patient if you want, but if not, don't worry about the door shutting behind you, you don't want to be in that room anyways.</p><p>Besides, show me any other rea life activity that you pay $40.00 for and will entertain you for a full 2 weeks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>Cable. </blockquote>Didn't know cable was an "activity" or that cheap... </blockquote>Believe it or not, TV is an actiivity. most kids and adults know it as such. I consider news an activity, good TV shows as well, and if you get just expanded cable its around 40 to 50 bucks which is the same price range as EQ2 after tax and crap. oh....but i suppose that's really only for people who live out in the sticks like me. in Texas I was paying 60+ for cable. here in eastern arizona, i'm only paying 33 bucks for each service except the internet which is about 50.

[Vumael]

Hopefully the content will be more difficult, meritting not much different.

[Troubor]

<cite>Articulas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>y'all know what. he asked some interesting questions, and i'll be honest, i've only seen flames pointed at him. So, I'm very close to not purchasing it myself due to the fact that no one can answer him at all. seriously, if all you people can do is flame to get your point across your only hurting the product you like. I think i'll hold off on pre-ordering it at all. </blockquote><p>No, people answered to the best of their ability based on what has been posted on the official sites and that can be released without violating the NDA.  The OP stated that he felt that the 20 new instances would only have about 6 for tier 8, people have posted that no, all 20 will cater to tier 8, and some or all will cater to tier 6 and 7 also.  (I.E. some or all of the new 20 will scale from level 50 to 80).  The poster also showed disdain for the 60 new AA's, people tried to explain how the 60 new AA's will be beneficial, they are meant to help balance the various classes more, I know I made some comments about tank classes.</p><p>Now were some of the posts strongly worded?  Yes.  Some might even be flames, but even the flames explained to the OP what might be worth it in this expansion.  </p><p>Now if YOU wish to hold off pre-ordering simply because you didn't see the answers in this post, and because you didn't like HOW people answered, fine.  Again your money and your choice.  But as for the OP asking "interesting" questions, no he asked uninformed one, all of his posts are based on assumptions not facts, as people have pointed out.  He even posted originally that there was to only be 20aa's, then corrected that but forgot to completly correct that.  One of his posts says something like 60aa's and 20aa's in the same post for instance.  I don't see where the OP posted interesting questions, I see where he ranted based on assumptions not the facts.</p>

[DragonMaster2385]

<cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Articulas@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>y'all know what. he asked some interesting questions, and i'll be honest, i've only seen flames pointed at him. So, I'm very close to not purchasing it myself due to the fact that no one can answer him at all. seriously, if all you people can do is flame to get your point across your only hurting the product you like. I think i'll hold off on pre-ordering it at all. </blockquote><p>No, people answered to the best of their ability based on what has been posted on the official sites and that can be released without violating the NDA.  The OP stated that he felt that the 20 new instances would only have about 6 for tier 8, people have posted that no, all 20 will cater to tier 8, and some or all will cater to tier 6 and 7 also.  (I.E. some or all of the new 20 will scale from level 50 to 80).  The poster also showed disdain for the 60 new AA's, people tried to explain how the 60 new AA's will be beneficial, they are meant to help balance the various classes more, I know I made some comments about tank classes.</p><p>Now were some of the posts strongly worded?  Yes.  Some might even be flames, but even the flames explained to the OP what might be worth it in this expansion.  </p><p>Now if YOU wish to hold off pre-ordering simply because you didn't see the answers in this post, and because you didn't like HOW people answered, fine.  Again your money and your choice.  But as for the OP asking "interesting" questions, no he asked uninformed one, all of his posts are based on assumptions not facts, as people have pointed out.  He even posted originally that there was to only be 20aa's, then corrected that but forgot to completly correct that.  One of his posts says something like 60aa's and 20aa's in the same post for instance.  I don't see where the OP posted interesting questions, I see where he ranted based on assumptions not the facts.</p></blockquote>I agree.  The OP didn't ask any good questions at all; he asked if TSO was worth it.  If you read the posts, including one by me, there are several that answer that question directly with pointing out facts about the expansion that justify its worth.  If you don't think that the question has been answered, please read the thread again.

[Straughm]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>if i am understanding this right 20 zones if u honestly think they are putting all 20 zones in t8 well your even more stupid then i imagine. No I will not be buying this expansion for 4+ years i have given sony way too much money for expansion i already had. I draw the line here. Nothing in this expansion has lured me to want to spend my hard earned money to play it. TSO is a joke2 new gods big deal, 60 aa big deal and I will tell u this I am a aa [Removed for Content] but im sorry but 20 aa is not enough incentive to lure me to give them 40 bucks nor is the 20 dungeons which more than likely will be spread out over the span of t2-t8 so i wouln't be surprised if its still 6 zones for t8. In my opinion this so called expansion is worth i'd say about 19.99, not the going price it will be going for when released. I could care less about the level cap staying the same either. </blockquote><p>Gaze, shut the hell up, pull that cobb outta your butt, stop *cough* whinning, and go play another game if you have such a big problem with EQ2!</p><p>You sound like a WoW lover trying to impersonate an EQ2 player, just so you can trash the game.</p>

[Straughm]

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Folks from level 50-80 will be playing TSO content. Not just 80.</blockquote>Should be just 80 since that is what is lacking right now.  /shrug</blockquote><p>Why should it be JUST 80th.  Don't want to flame but IMO that is short sighted to ONLY look at the end game tiers each time.</p><p>Or to put it another way does it matter that they found a way to make an end game expansion that also gives some of the same content to tier 6 and 7 players?  Why should it matter to you that they have?</p></blockquote>Because the endgame will be the mid level game in a couple of expansions. It is stupid to lopside the game by keep adding content to the lower levels when there is PLENTY there to do already.The endgame will always be lacking content sinc there is only so much SoE can add into an expansion when they up the levels.</blockquote>Do you not understand that some of the new instances will be in T5 zones?  Najena is in the tunnel at the start of Lavastorm.  They made some of the new instances scale because if a lvl 50 player steps into Najena and sees lvl 82^^^heroics, they are gonna soil them selves.  They didn't add content to lower lvls, they added scaled instance content to existing zones that start at 50 but are geared towards lvl 80 players.  Stop whining, shut up and enjoy the new content.

[forr]

It would be a great expansion if they increased the lvl cap

[Lethe5683]

<cite>forren wrote:</cite><blockquote>It would be a great expansion if they increased the lvl cap</blockquote>No thanks.

[Bozidar]

<p>I think to answer the question of "Is Shadow Oddessy worth it?" we need to know what we'll be getting with Shadow Oddessy, and what will come to us anyway as current subscribers.</p><p>I suspect that we'll have the new AA point tree even w/o the expansion.  What else?</p>

[Crimson Lord]

<p>I would like to start off by saying thank you for all those people that actually took time to give me your opinions on TSO.</p><p>I found the need to give one final post to end this ongoing eq2flames flame....oh wait this is the official forums for a second there I thought I was on eq2 flames.</p><p>I found it rather funny how the title asks is "Shadow Odyssey worth it?" Hoping to get some intelligent responses, nothing like the flame war on the other forums, So I gave my opinions and got a response which I sort of would have expected from eq2flames, The main concept of this thread was to see if anyone else shared my feelings or wanted to express WHY I would be wrong in the matter of buying it, by giving their own critique perhaps, not analyzing my opinions. Maybe just maybe someone might be able to sell me on it, something which sony has done nothing of the sort to try and do. </p><p>I gave my opinions by just copying the site they posted all the stuff having to do with this expansion and my response. So as I read the 6 pages of BS coming from obviously people not everyone but most of you who probably eat, sleep, drink everquest Too the people that probably have no lives and get up and play the game from morning to early next day morning. Or the people that would buy sony's expansions for everquest even if the carebears were featured in it. The people that run their mouth calling me a troll, to telling me to s**t the f**k up, the people that instead of give their reasons why they would buy it like what exactly in the expansion is drawing them to buy it;  they decided to flame me or analyze my opinions on what pretty much drew me off the expansion. Sony has to make me say hey I want to get that badly, sadly they have not.</p><p>To you guys who said you don't want to get it don't buy it.....Your right I will not be buying it. Heaven forbid I try and get some intelligent discussion on a topic from most of the people in this thread, not all. To those that actually took the time to give their own opinions and not analyze my every word thanks. </p><p>Some mentioned I might be burnt out sadly you are right I am burnt out from playing this game 4+ years. When you have finished vp, soh, t1-t3 raid zones and get a expansion that has really no incentive to buy it aside from aa's which obviously for me is not enough incentive to buy. The new raid zone(s) they will be adding will be in my guilds cycle and eventually when we beat them which I guarantee will not take longer than 3-6 months then what? Nothing along the lines of anything fresh to raid? </p><p>Then you go to the 20 dungeons I have a friend on beta and from what I have seen from his posts its so far been a lot of recycled mobs just with higher levels no new fresh looking mobs granted he has not gone through them all yet but he already went through a few of those dungeons and they are looking like re2 remakes you wonder how much effort they really put into these 20 dungeons. Given my bias opinion because I am in one of the very few guilds that can finish all rok raid content, from my point of view I am only missing 3 pieces of gear from raid zones so this new gear in these 20 dungeons is also another reason I am not interested at all in it. Suggestion start adding mythical gear in the new raid zones that might entice me. (insert mythical gear flame)</p><p>Another point to be made which people tend to forget 20 dungeons your all excited about....so when you run all the dungeons within a week most likely a lot of you grind dungeons a lot which is why your all happy about it. You can not obviously sit there and tell me that those 20 dungeons is gonna to keep you entertained longer then 1-3 months?</p><p>For all you die hard questers who go to the new overland zone how long you think it will take you to finish those quests? 2 maybe 4 months?</p><p>There lies my point it may look good on paper but when you actually get down to the bare bones do you truly believe that in the span of a year or so to the next expansion that this is truly enough content to keep you interested enough to continue to play it, knowing that 40 bucks got you probably not even half a years worth of content?</p><p>If you think so well good for you, for me sorry but looking into the future of when this is released those dungeons those raid zones(for the guilds that can finish raid zones) that overland zone is not enough content to last a years time or a little over a year from when the expansion comes out.</p><p>Now you can continue your flaming of me like I know all you true trolls will do, but until sony comes up with something more to sell me on this well lets just say expansion comes around you got 40 bucks less cash in profit not that is a big thing but still.</p><p>Continue your flames and going off topic like you have been doing.....I am now a observer given the responses I have gotten from this thread, might just save myself the time of giving you flamers the satisfaction of your garbage was read.</p>

[Troubor]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote, I reply within his wall of text in <span style="color: #ff0000;">red</span>:</cite><blockquote><p>I would like to start off by saying thank you for all those people that actually took time to give me your opinions on TSO.</p><p>I found the need to give one final post to end this ongoing eq2flames flame  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Translation:  People didn't respond as sycophants, thus they flamed)</span>....oh wait this is the official forums for a second there I thought I was on eq2 flames.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(If you TRULY feel you were flamed, report it and have the post locked.  Many posts were blunt including mine but we tried to give FACTS based on you posting on mere ASSUMPTIONS)</span></p><p>I found it rather funny how the title asks is "Shadow Odyssey worth it?" Hoping to get some intelligent responses,  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(no you wanted people to agree with you, not convince you)</span> nothing like the flame war on the other forums, So I gave my opinions and got a response which I sort of would have expected from eq2flames, The main concept of this thread was to see if anyone else shared my feelings or wanted to express WHY I would be wrong in the matter of buying it, by giving their own critique perhaps, not analyzing my opinions.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(And people did just that, they tried to explain why it might be, and myself and others pointed out where your assumptions were wrong MANY times, like with how the 20 zones work and the AA trees and so forth.)</span> Maybe just maybe someone might be able to sell me on it, something which sony has done nothing of the sort to try and do. <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Well, people tried to explain, you just decided that anything that doesn't agree with "SHADOW ODYSSEY SUCKS" must be a flame)</span></p><p>I gave my opinions by just copying the site they posted all the stuff having to do with this expansion and my response.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(No, you read that then made some incorrect assumptions, the six pages that you CLAIM are BS tried to correct your assumptions)</span> So as I read the 6 pages of BS coming from obviously people not everyone but most of you who probably eat, sleep, drink everquest  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(YAY, IRL card.  So people who play this game must not have "a life".  What does that make you?  You took the time to ask about the expansion then make assumptions about it, and THEN are taking the time to post this wall of text.  Please, do explain how that makes your life somehow more meaningful then mine or anyone elses)</span> Too the people that probably have no lives and get up and play the game from morning to early next day morning.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Wait..I have to ask this, did you ever play a character named Elren on the LDL server?  You sound WAY too much like him.  Seriously he wanted people to agree with him, then when they refused would pull the IRL card out of his behind and flame everyone.  I seriously just have to ask if this is you Elren)</span> Or the people that would buy sony's expansions for everquest even if the carebears were featured in it. <span style="color: #ff0000;">(And we should go by your incorrect assumptions instead?  You made assumptions instead of going on facts and then came to a conclusion)</span>  The people that run their mouth calling me a troll, to telling me to s**t the f**k up,  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(You posted like a troll, you got replies back as if you were a troll)</span> the people that instead of give their reasons why they would buy it like what exactly in the expansion is drawing them to buy it;  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(And yet people posted how all the 20 instances will scale to level 80, how the AA's are intended to help balance the classes better (and they will be doing tweaking up and beyond that too, and how at least some of the instances, maybe all will scale to tier 6 and 7 also...yet you obviously didn't read this or decided to ignore it)</span>  they decided to flame me or analyze my opinions  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(you give obviously flawed opinions based on false assumptions, they will be analyzed)</span> on what pretty much drew me off the expansion. Sony has to make me say hey I want to get that badly, sadly they have not.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Then we're back to don't buy it, but again what is your opinion worth when you have yet to come up with an opinion based on fact, not preconceived assumptions?)</span></p><p>To you guys who said you don't want to get it don't buy it.....Your right I will not be buying it.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(YAY, and this should concern us how?)</span> Heaven forbid I try and get some intelligent discussion on a topic from most of the people in this thread, not all.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Translation:  Again people refused to be sycophants, so you decided to say they are flaming you.)</span> To those that actually took the time to give their own opinions and not analyze my every word thanks. <span style="color: #ff0000;">(If you don't want replies that might not be negative, don't post.  Not every post on a message board will be "OH, GAZE IS GREAT!&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p><p>Some mentioned I might be burnt out sadly you are right I am burnt out from playing this game 4+ years.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Then you know to stop playing, let alone buy an expansion)</span> When you have finished vp, soh, t1-t3 raid zones and get a expansion that has really no incentive to buy it aside from aa's which obviously for me is not enough incentive to buy. <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Well, AGAIN you're going on assumptions based on if the expansion should be bought...but we know this)  </span>The new raid zone(s) they will be adding will be in my guilds cycle and eventually when we beat them which I guarantee will not take longer than 3-6 months then what? Nothing along the lines of anything fresh to raid? <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Gee, I play to do things also like talk to friends in game, see what is happening with each live event and so forth.  Like I said in another post, god forbid people actually play a MMO to be social)</span></p><p>Then you go to the 20 dungeons I have a friend on beta and from what I have seen from his posts its so far been a lot of recycled mobs just with higher levels no new fresh looking mobs granted he has not gone through them all yet  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(So you are going by second hand assumptions, and said person has only seen some of the dungeons in beta too.  Here we go again, someone going on vast assumptions based on a small amount of data)</span> but he already went through a few of those dungeons and they are looking like re2 remakes you wonder how much effort they really put into these 20 dungeons.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Yay, more assumptions)</span> Given my bias opinion because I am in one of the very few guilds that can finish all rok raid content, from my point of view I am only missing 3 pieces of gear from raid zones so this new gear in these 20 dungeons is also another reason I am not interested at all in it.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Ah, I see.  Your reasons to play are just to get loot then.  I can see why you'd be burned out, I would be too if that was the only reason I played.  ANYONE would be.)</span> Suggestion start adding mythical gear in the new raid zones that might entice me. (insert mythical gear flame)  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Don't even need to touch that one)</span></p><p>Another point to be made which people tend to forget 20 dungeons your all excited about....so when you run all the dungeons within a week most likely a lot of you grind dungeons a lot which is why your all happy about it. You can not obviously sit there and tell me that those 20 dungeons is gonna to keep you entertained longer then 1-3 months?  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Hmmm...yet I still like doing instances and zone from the original game as alts.  I still like doing most of the ROK content now 10 months later.  Just because YOU get bored easily doesn't mean I'm not enjoying the game.  Need I mention the word "Assumption".  It is now carrying over to what entertain others too.  You REALLY do go by pure assumptions about everything in your life I see)</span></p><p>For all you die hard questers who go to the new overland zone how long you think it will take you to finish those quests? 2 maybe 4 months?  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Well, I won't assume how long it will take since I don't know what the overland zone(s) are like.  You see, I try to not assume things when i don't know the facts, and I haven't seen the overland zone(s))</span></p><p>There lies my point it may look good on paper but when you actually get down to the bare bones do you truly believe that in the span of a year or so to the next expansion that this is truly enough content to keep you interested enough to continue to play it, knowing that 40 bucks got you probably not even half a years worth of content?  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Well, you assume there must not be so I guess it must be true.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Sorry but I don't base my purchases on one person's assumptions when I've already seen they got a good percentage of them wrong)</span></p><p>If you think so well good for you, for me sorry but looking into the future of when this is released those dungeons those raid zones(for the guilds that can finish raid zones) that overland zone is not enough content to last a years time or a little over a year from when the expansion comes out.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Then we are back to don't buy it.)</span></p><p>Now you can continue your flaming of me like I know all you true trolls will do, but until sony comes up with something more to sell me on this well lets just say expansion comes around you got 40 bucks less cash in profit not that is a big thing but still.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(And we're back to you calling anyone who dares to disagree a troll/flamer.  Well I will admit this is a borderline flame, but only to show you how absurd you still are being.  You're the one going into this whine and rant.  What sort of replies do you WANT from such?  YOU set the tone)</span></p><p>Continue your flames and going off topic like you have been doing.....I am now a observer given the responses I have gotten from this thread, might just save myself the time of giving you flamers the satisfaction of your garbage was read.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Well, since you are an observer, I shall give you a few more points to observe:</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">1)  You have based everything on assumptions as I keep on pointing out in this thread and others</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">2)  Although some posts were flames and this one may qualify too, even many if not most of the "flames" tried to correct your false assumptions and/or give reasons.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">3)  You continue to make assumptions with very little facts or information.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">4)  You call anyone who dares to not be a sycophant a "troll" or "flamer".</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">5)  It's obvious you're just burnt out.  Instead of posting a thread that practically INVITES flames, why not just accept that it's time to walk away from the game for a few months, then after Shadow Odyssey has been out THEN take a look at it.  You recover from being burned out and can collect all the TRUTHFUL information, not just go on assumptions.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">6)  Until then, don't buy it if you don't want to.  Why should we care if you do or not?  Do you expect SOE to come down and beg you to spend your money?  To give you a trophey if you do buy it?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">7)  Just have to ask again, did you play Elren on the LDL server?  You seriously post just like him.  Yes I very much know it could be coincedence, there could be another person like him.  Just have to ask.</span></p></blockquote>

[Scrappe]

<p>Here here Gaze. There is never a shortage of fanboi trollers on the official forums trying to make themselves feel righteous by insulting and skewing intellectual criticism. Gaze is NOT ALONE in how he feels. I'm trying like heck to come up with a reason to buy a new xpac for only one of my three accounts, not because I'm angry with Sony, not because I'm disgusted with the proposed content, but primarily because the spark just isnt there anymore.</p><ul><li>Kunark changed the game enough to where I effectively found myself paying for EQ1 rather than EQ2. That didn't work for me.</li><li>There seems a perpetual disdain (or at least lack of interest or funding) for several classes, some that I play, some that I dont play. There are just too many classes for SOE to keep up with all of them fairly, so they concentrate on the select few that most directly relate to successful gameplay, and only claim to give time and consideration to class balance.</li><li>For me, raiding is about gearing up so that I can do more fantastic things on my own, not so that I can do more fantastic things in a raid, which is a chicken and egg situation that is hard to initially understand. You dont need all the wonder gear to defeat Trak. So it seems it's there for personal gratification. Personal gratification will only afford me so many hours a night of excusable play. I have to have a reason to go after that gear, and that reason was defeating "unbeatable" mobs by myself. But those named have been beefed to such a degree, imbued with so many "I Win" buttons, that no wonder gear makes it possible like it did before Kunark. </li><li>There are new AAs in the upcoming xpac, but from what I've seen of the classes that interest me, they've been engineered to soften class issues rather than give those classes the base attention they deserve. For some (I haven't looked at em all) of the elite classes however, new and intestering AAs with which to experiment and try cool things are now available. For the non-elite classes, nothing interesting, just a softening of what's broken. That's a real shame considering it's a year between xpacs and we were really hoping for something NEW.</li><li>This business of $40 everthing packs makes it even harder to make up my mind. An everything pack is designed to bring in new players, not maintain the old ones. Now folks can say that $40 is justifiable for a yearlong content update, but we're all used to paying $30, including back when EQ2 xpacs did take a year to come out anyway. It wasnt always 6 months between packs. We remember that $30 bought you one pack. Then we see $40 buying you all packs, and we think... Can't the veterans just have single packs for $30? Everyone thinks that. Don't pretend they dont. In this age of digital downloads, of course SOE can have separate downloads. Of course they can. They just know, or think, that all veterans will still pony up the cash anyway for content they've already purchased twice over.</li></ul><p>Now listen, I'm not faulting SOE specifically. EQ2 just has too much junk in it, classwise and enginewise. Not enough care was taken in the planning stages. Too many bandaids were applied over time. SOE has tried to do something about it, but after enough quick fixes, the game's fun factor runs its course. It simply becomes time to move on. Sadly, as Gaze pointed out, there arent any other games out there that compete , at least not for me, which is why I'm trying to so hard to come up with a reason to keep going. This new xpac is a fundamental shift in EQ2 design, just like Kunark was. Perhaps this time it will shift in my favor.</p>

[Thunndar316]

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Should be intresting to see if SoE makes the loot you get from spending points = to raid drops. It seems like they are trying to phase raiding out of EQ2 every patch.</blockquote>As they should be.  Casual gamers far outnumber the hardcore raider.

[DragonMaster2385]

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Should be intresting to see if SoE makes the loot you get from spending points = to raid drops. It seems like they are trying to phase raiding out of EQ2 every patch.</blockquote>As they should be.  Casual gamers far outnumber the hardcore raider.</blockquote><p>You are correct, however, raiders are more vocal. </p><p>To the person that thought otherwise:No, if you don't buy the expansion pack, you will NOT have access to the new AA's.</p>

[surepaw]

Seriously, you really need to get away from the game, really. and I am glad to see that you just might.If you have out played every dungeon, every raid area, every zone in the game soo many times that you cannot take it anymore, you need to get out. If you feel as tho you will go thru all 20 dungeons in 3 weeks, and all the raids in the new x-pack in 3 months, and all the quests in the same 3 month, you need to get away. I do not get to play much, as I work. I also do other things besides play EQ2, so I have not seen all the content there is. When I purchase the x-pack, I will probably not go thru it all for at least 6 months, and then I will spend the next 6 months going thru it again as well as doing other areas with my friends in game, helping out my guildies, etc. Get out of your house. Find out that there is life outside of EQ. The way it sounds is you are the one who eats, drinks, and sleeps EQ2. Your first post really did make it sound like you were a troll. I am sorry if you were not trolling, but it did sound like it. Maybe the reason it sounded like it was that you are burnt out as you confirmed in your second post. But in turn, your second post did not do anything to make it appear you were not trolling, if anything it enforced the idea. This only adds to the fact that you need to get away from the game. Come back in a year, see if anything is different, heck, I took a 2 year break after SS came out, did wonders, and like I said, I work and do other things as well. I never did eat, drink, and sleep EQ2. I hope you find a life outside EQ2 and can learn to enjoy it. BTW, wear sunglasses outside, that bright glowing object in the sky, it can hurt your eyes. It burns too, so you might want to wear some sunblock as well. I would start with SPF 50 and work my way down from there. Just some helpful advice. And yes, there is other food besides chips, pop-tarts, and pizza, some of it is actually good too.

[feldon30]

<cite>forren wrote:</cite><blockquote>It would be a great expansion if they increased the lvl cap</blockquote>No, it really wouldn't.

[feldon30]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I found the need to give one final post to end this ongoing eq2flames flame....oh wait this is the official forums for a second there I thought I was on eq2 flames.</p><p>I found it rather funny how the title asks is "Shadow Odyssey worth it?" Hoping to get some intelligent responses, nothing like the flame war on the other forums</p></blockquote>You posted a bunch of lies and bull about TSO based on no actual research or 'intelligence'. We went to great lengths to point out all your lies and inaccuracies and try to inform you of what TSO actually is and what the target audience is.If you think you can post a flame against TSO and this forum worthy of 'that other forum' and expect kid gloves and polite treatment in return, you are out of your mind.

[Besual]

<cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>forren wrote:</cite><blockquote>It would be a great expansion if they increased the lvl cap</blockquote>No, it really wouldn't.</blockquote>Yes it would. Will be sitting for about 21 month at level cap now.

[Kizee]

<cite>Besual wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>forren wrote:</cite><blockquote>It would be a great expansion if they increased the lvl cap</blockquote>No, it really wouldn't.</blockquote>Yes it would. Will be sitting for about 21 month at level cap now.</blockquote><p>So? If they raised level cap then everything we have gotten up to this point would be obsolete.</p><p>I like the fact that they skip a expansion and flesh out the endgame content before increasing the cap again. Plus, it gives us alittle time to actually USE the equipment we worked so hard for.</p>

[Troubor]

<cite>Besual wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>forren wrote:</cite><blockquote>It would be a great expansion if they increased the lvl cap</blockquote>No, it really wouldn't.</blockquote>Yes it would. Will be sitting for about 21 month at level cap now.</blockquote><p>Levelling is far from the end all of playing IMO.  Grouping & Raiding with friends, if one is on a RP server (I am) doing some stuff in character if you like to do that (I do personally, I don't Rp all the time but I like to do it), just seeing new zones and instances, seeing how the in game lore evolves, and like Kizee posted, actually getting some time to "use' one's gear..to me it's disappointing to find out my gear is instantly obsolete when an expansion goes live.  Yes, I'm sure TSO will have plenty of items that will be upgrades to even some of the best raid level gear, EoF had stuff that easily topped KoS gear despite them sharing an endgame tier.  But at least then I didn't feel like my stuff was instantly obsolete with my then 70th level.  I'd like to feel the same with my now 80th for at least a few more months.</p><p>That and IMO getting tier 8 masters is still a pain, would like to have a chance to have some more tier 8 masters before the cap goes up again too.</p>

[dawy]

There is of course no need to raise the level cap if the content of the expansion will last a year much like EoF did for me at least.The problem will come if people burn through TSO and realise theres not much to it much like RoK,time will tell though i suppose.

[gdawg311]

<b><span class="postbody">why go to old [arrow] if your 80 already? RE is a prime example of old [arrow] recycling old zones cause your too lazy to make a new zone.</span></b><span class="postbody">soe = owned</span>

[Chefren]

<cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>That and IMO getting tier 8 masters is still a pain, would like to have a chance to have some more tier 8 masters before the cap goes up again too.</blockquote>This had to be planned and well planned too. People have been complaining about the master drop rate for all of RoK but if we would all be mastered by now, there would be one aspect of improving your character lacking for the next year. Lower master drop rate = good IMO.

[Slamida]

<p>Someone was complaining that SKs are getting fixed cuz we have evac and HT ?</p><p>DO you realize the best HT ever with crit is around 18k minus god abilities....( on a 15 fing min timer)</p><p>Please know what you are talking about b4 you make a dumb statement.</p>

[Troubor]

<cite>Einina@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>That and IMO getting tier 8 masters is still a pain, would like to have a chance to have some more tier 8 masters before the cap goes up again too.</blockquote>This had to be planned and well planned too. People have been complaining about the master drop rate for all of RoK but if we would all be mastered by now, there would be one aspect of improving your character lacking for the next year. Lower master drop rate = good IMO.</blockquote>You're possibly misunderstanding my comment to be a complaint.  It isn't per-se.  It was more commentary.  What I basically meant is that if the level cap were going up with TSO, then it would be a big mistake for this reason also, it's been much harder then some of the other expansions to get masters.  With no level cap we have a chance to get a few more before they too are obsolete.

[Troubor]

<cite>gdawg311 wrote:</cite><blockquote><b><span class="postbody">why go to old [arrow] if your 80 already? RE is a prime example of old [arrow] recycling old zones cause your too lazy to make a new zone.</span></b><span class="postbody">soe = owned</span></blockquote>No, it's a prime example of finding a way to revamp a popular zone.  A lot of people, myself included like to go back to old zones we enjoyed when we were lower level while mentoring.  This gives people a chance to go back to a form of that zone that is endgame.  But you see, some people do try to enjoy ALL of the game, not just see the end game as the only thing worth it.  God forbid people enjoy more then the endgame...

[feldon30]

<cite>ScrapperX wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Here here Gaze. There is never a shortage of fanboi trollers on the official forums trying to make themselves feel righteous by insulting and skewing intellectual criticism. Gaze is NOT ALONE in how he feels. </p></blockquote>I have no trouble believing there are other people who manage to completely ignore all of the announcements, previews, demos, press releases, and just completely invent stuff out of thin air and make up lies about TSO. I just can't believe you're so proud to include yourself in that group of people who are UNABLE TO READ.

[LordPazuzu]

<cite>gdawg311 wrote:</cite><blockquote><b><span class="postbody">why go to old [arrow] if your 80 already? RE is a prime example of old [arrow] recycling old zones cause your too lazy to make a new zone.</span></b><span class="postbody">soe = owned</span></blockquote><p>Too lazy to make new ones?  Last I heard they've made over 20 new zones recently...</p><p>Lazy doesn't factor into it.  Production time and cost does.  If they were lazy, RE2 wouldn't have happened at all.</p><p>Recycling old zones like RE2 isn't lazy, it's fast and cheap.  Recycling old zones allows for more content to be added without taking people away from expansion production.</p><p>Look at it this way: a brand new zone added on the scale of RE2 would have equated to one less dungeon in the actual expansion.  Then the expac would hit stores and you'd be shelling out $40 for one less zone and there would overall be one less zone of content in the end-game.</p><p>Or they could hire more artists and developers to make more original live content which cuts into Sony's bottom line, so they'd use it as an excuse to jack up subscription costs.</p><p><cite>ScrapperX wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><ul><li>Kunark changed the game enough to where I effectively found myself paying for EQ1 rather than EQ2. That didn't work for me.</li></ul><ul><li>This business of $40 everthing packs makes it even harder to make up my mind. An everything pack is designed to bring in new players, not maintain the old ones. Now folks can say that $40 is justifiable for a yearlong content update, but we're all used to paying $30, including back when EQ2 xpacs did take a year to come out anyway. It wasnt always 6 months between packs. We remember that $30 bought you one pack. Then we see $40 buying you all packs, and we think... Can't the veterans just have single packs for $30? Everyone thinks that. Don't pretend they dont. In this age of digital downloads, of course SOE can have separate downloads. Of course they can. They just know, or think, that all veterans will still pony up the cash anyway for content they've already purchased twice over.</li></ul></blockquote><p> Gameplay-wise, it's still nothing like EQ1.  Land and Lore-wise, I'm glad more EQ1 has been brought in.  </p><p>EQ2's first expansion was released after almost a year, but Kingdom of Sky was a 6 month expansion... and it showed it. Still, Desert of Flames was rather light in content compared to EoF or even RoK. Probably because there were two adventure packs produced at the same time. So if you add in the $4-$5 for each adv pack on top of the $30 DoF expac, it comes out close to $40 anyway for a similar amount of overall content.</p>

[feldon30]

They were able to make RE2 with just a couple of days worth of help from the art department rather than 2 months work. That alone made it a no-brainer to add the zone. And people like the loot, so what's the problem?

[Besual]

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Besual wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>forren wrote:</cite><blockquote>It would be a great expansion if they increased the lvl cap</blockquote>No, it really wouldn't.</blockquote>Yes it would. Will be sitting for about 21 month at level cap now.</blockquote><p>So? If they raised level cap then everything we have gotten up to this point would be obsolete.</p><p>I like the fact that they skip a expansion and flesh out the endgame content before increasing the cap again. Plus, it gives us alittle time to actually USE the equipment we worked so hard for.</p></blockquote>If you like to keep using  your gear / master just don't level up. No one is forcing you to do so.<cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>gdawg311 wrote:</cite><blockquote><b><span class="postbody">why go to old [arrow] if your 80 already? RE is a prime example of old [arrow] recycling old zones cause your too lazy to make a new zone.</span></b><span class="postbody">soe = owned</span></blockquote>No, it's a prime example of finding a way to revamp a popular zone.  A lot of people, myself included like to go back to old zones we enjoyed when we were lower level while mentoring.  This gives people a chance to go back to a form of that zone that is endgame.  But you see, some people do try to enjoy ALL of the game, not just see the end game as the only thing worth it.  God forbid people enjoy more then the endgame...</blockquote>Designing a zone from scratch takes much longer / needs more man power then reusing the zone layout. If SOE would have made Kurns Tower instead of RE2 we may not have seen the revamp of EF or no live events or the GH would be delayed after TSO launch.

[Noaani]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Heaven forbid I try and get some intelligent discussion on a topic from most of the people in this thread, not all. To those that actually took the time to give their own opinions and not analyze my every word thanks. </blockquote><p>Thing is, your incapable of intelligent discussion, as both this post and the OP of this thread point out.</p><p>In order for you to participate in an intelligent discussion, you need to be well informed of the fats of the subject before forming any opinions on it. It is obvious you did not do this, as your opinion was made up, and you started this thread all without even basic understanding of readily avalible facts about it. In fact, the cut and paste you posted, claiming it to be the facts on the expansion, was in fact a write up on the game as a whole for potential new subscribers. You know so little about the game in general that you were not even aware of that.</p><p>And you tried to start an intelligent conversation on it...</p>

[Illine]

<p>plus RE2 is totally different than RE. The dongeon is the same, but the mobs and the walkthrough is completly different.</p><p>In games, devs usually take back what already exists. You see that in DoF, ahket aken is a lot like living tombs. shimmering citadel heroic and epic. lockjaws lair and sanctuarium ...</p><p>KoS, sanctum of the scaleborn with raid zones I don't remember the names. Poet palace, HoF and labo ... in RoK ... protector and crypt.</p><p>Nek 1, 2 and 3.</p><p>and if it's not exactly the same, they at least take the same graphics. Vault and maiden for instance. It's cheaper coz it's faster and that way you can focus on the details.</p>

[feldon30]

Vault of Eternal Sleep and Maiden's Chamber use similar art assets, but they are not IDENTICAL. The map is completely different, the rooms are all different shapes. It is nearly impossible to confuse one for the other. They've said that in The Shadow Odyssey, there will be dungeons with similar art assets in the same way. In contrast, all the raid zones in Kingdom of Sky were EXACTLY the same as all the dungeon zones.

[Troubor]

<cite>Besual wrote, I reply within what he or she wrote in <span style="color: #ff0000;">RED</span></cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Besual wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>feldon30 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>forren wrote:</cite><blockquote>It would be a great expansion if they increased the lvl cap</blockquote>No, it really wouldn't.</blockquote>Yes it would. Will be sitting for about 21 month at level cap now.</blockquote><p>So? If they raised level cap then everything we have gotten up to this point would be obsolete.</p><p>I like the fact that they skip a expansion and flesh out the endgame content before increasing the cap again. Plus, it gives us alittle time to actually USE the equipment we worked so hard for.</p></blockquote>If you like to keep using  your gear / master just don't level up. No one is forcing you to do so.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Uh-huh.  Your comment ignores that if someone were to actually take your "advice", they wouldn't be able to do the end game content for a year if the cap was raised to 90 with the next expansion.  Yes, I know not raising the cap will disappoint some people.  But at least people's gear won't be instantly obsolete.  At least one can start trying to find the instances and do them without levelling up, same with the raid zones.  One isn't stuck spending half of a year just to gear up so one can truly do a good percent of the end game content.  And your statement ignores the part of Kizee's comment about fleshing out the endgame content.)</span><cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>gdawg311 wrote:</cite><blockquote><b><span class="postbody">why go to old [arrow] if your 80 already? RE is a prime example of old [arrow] recycling old zones cause your too lazy to make a new zone.</span></b><span class="postbody">soe = owned</span></blockquote>No, it's a prime example of finding a way to revamp a popular zone.  A lot of people, myself included like to go back to old zones we enjoyed when we were lower level while mentoring.  This gives people a chance to go back to a form of that zone that is endgame.  But you see, some people do try to enjoy ALL of the game, not just see the end game as the only thing worth it.  God forbid people enjoy more then the endgame...</blockquote>Designing a zone from scratch takes much longer / needs more man power then reusing the zone layout. If SOE would have made Kurns Tower instead of RE2 we may not have seen the revamp of EF or no live events or the GH would be delayed after TSO launch.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">(Yes...which is a statement that basically agrees with my post.  My point was that with a RE2, 80th level characters get to do a zone similar to the original Runnyeye without mentoring.  If you're trying to argue against me on this, then you apparently misunderstood my comment to Gdawg311)</span></blockquote>

[SageGaspar]

<cite>Gaze@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then you go to the 20 dungeons I have a friend on beta and from what I have seen from his posts its so far been a lot of recycled mobs just with higher levels no new fresh looking mobs granted he has not gone through them all yet but he already went through a few of those dungeons and they are looking like re2 remakes you wonder how much effort they really put into these 20 dungeons. </blockquote>Your "beta friend" is full of crap, just look at the front page of EQ2Players for screenshots.

[Besual]

<cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Besual wrote, I reply within what he or she wrote in <span style="color: #ff0000;">RED</span></cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>So? If they raised level cap then everything we have gotten up to this point would be obsolete.</p>I like the fact that they skip a expansion and flesh out the endgame content before increasing the cap again. Plus, it gives us alittle time to actually USE the equipment we worked so hard for.</blockquote>If you like to keep using  your gear / master just don't level up. No one is forcing you to do so.  <span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">(Uh-huh.  Your comment ignores that if someone were to actually take your "advice", they wouldn't be able to do the end game content for a year if the cap was raised to 90 with the next expansion.  <span style="color: #ffff00;">Kizee wrote, he liked to enjoy gear. And not to level up would let himd o so.</span> Yes, I know not raising the cap will disappoint some people.  But at least people's gear won't be instantly obsolete. <span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">If you mean with "instantly obsolete" you no longer wear the best stuff available when a new expansion is released then I can tell you that your gear will be "instantly obsolete" at Nov 18th 2008. Because TSO stuff WILL be better then RoK items. If you mean something different then your gear doesn't become "instantly obsolete" with a new level cap. It will become less usefull as you would have gained levels and you will slowly replace it with better stuff. Well, because TSO stuff will be better the RoK stuff you will slowly replace your gear anyway.</span> </span>At least one can start trying to find the instances and do them without levelling up, same with the raid zones.  One isn't stuck spending half of a year just to gear up so one can truly do a good percent of the end game content. <span style="color: #ffff00;">You had to equip yourself that long to be able to run CoA / VoeS / Chelsith / Chardok... or PR / SoH / VP? Well, for RE2 you need a bit of better equipment then MC but it dosn't take a half year to do so. And if you are going to kill the contested T8 raid mobs (the x2 and the Dominus x4 ones excluded) you are in a hardcore raiding guild. Not sure if they needed to farm the raid zone for a half year to do so. </span> And your statement ignores the part of Kizee's comment about fleshing out the endgame content.)<span style="color: #000000;"> <span style="color: #ffff00;">Hm, how often have you done KoS zones once EoF was launched? I have farmed Nest for masters 2-3 times each week and maybe once per month I have done another KoS instance to help a guild mate. But beside this I didn't use the KoS content anymore. Same goes for the raid zones (</span></span></span></span><span style="color: #ffff00;">though </span><span style="color: #ffff00;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">this took a bit longer). And same will be true for RoK zones and TSO.And I was a fan of a 5 level cap incresment for TSO: The very easy stuff (like KC) turns grey, the easy stuff (like CoA / PR..) would be green / blue and the "hard" zone would be blue /white (= new easy stuff). But with the low master drop rate it was </span>predictable that we would not see a new level cap with TSO.</span><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="color: #ffff00;"> At least the TSO AAs doesn't look as bland as the EoF ones.Finaly there will  be alwasy people who like to keep the level cap and people how like new levels as there will be alwasy the discussion hardcore vs. causal, easy mode vs hard way, donuts vs. muffins. And it will be impssible to convice the other ones <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></span></span><cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>gdawg311 wrote:</cite>...No, it's a prime example of finding a way to revamp a popular zone.  A lot of people, myself included like to go back to old zones we enjoyed when we were lower level while mentoring.  This gives people a chance to go back to a form of that zone that is endgame.  But you see, some people do try to enjoy ALL of the game, not just see the end game as the only thing worth it.  God forbid people enjoy more then the endgame...</blockquote>Designing a zone from scratch takes much longer / needs more man power then reusing the zone layout. If SOE would have made Kurns Tower instead of RE2 we may not have seen the revamp of EF or no live events or the GH would be delayed after TSO launch.  <span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">(Yes...which is a statement that basically agrees with my post.  My point was that with a RE2, 80th level characters get to do a zone similar to the original Runnyeye without mentoring.  If you're trying to argue against me on this, then you apparently misunderstood my comment to Gdawg311)<span style="color: #ffff00;"></span><span style="color: #ffff00;">Because I would have prefered a level cap increase and you are happy that it will not happen dosen't mean we can't agree in other points. Like reusing old zones is a good thing <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></span></span></blockquote></blockquote>

[Red_Rider]

  Being an altaholic and not too much into the endgame, all they have to do to get me to buy it is add some character slots ....)

[Troubor]

<cite>Besual wrote in <span style="color: #ffff00;">yellow, to my replies in </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">red.  </span><span style="color: #000000;">I now reply to his or her stuff in yellow down below in black</span>:</cite><blockquote><cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Besual wrote, I reply within what he or she wrote in <span style="color: #ff0000;">RED</span></cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>So? If they raised level cap then everything we have gotten up to this point would be obsolete.</p>I like the fact that they skip a expansion and flesh out the endgame content before increasing the cap again. Plus, it gives us alittle time to actually USE the equipment we worked so hard for.</blockquote>If you like to keep using  your gear / master just don't level up. No one is forcing you to do so.  <span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">(Uh-huh.  Your comment ignores that if someone were to actually take your "advice", they wouldn't be able to do the end game content for a year if the cap was raised to 90 with the next expansion.  <span style="color: #ffff00;">Kizee wrote, he liked to enjoy gear. And not to level up would let himd o so.</span> Yes, I know not raising the cap will disappoint some people.  But at least people's gear won't be instantly obsolete. <span style="color: #000000;"><span style="color: #ffff00;">If you mean with "instantly obsolete" you no longer wear the best stuff available when a new expansion is released then I can tell you that your gear will be "instantly obsolete" at Nov 18th 2008. Because TSO stuff WILL be better then RoK items. If you mean something different then your gear doesn't become "instantly obsolete" with a new level cap. It will become less usefull as you would have gained levels and you will slowly replace it with better stuff. Well, because TSO stuff will be better the RoK stuff you will slowly replace your gear anyway.</span> </span>At least one can start trying to find the instances and do them without levelling up, same with the raid zones.  One isn't stuck spending half of a year just to gear up so one can truly do a good percent of the end game content. <span style="color: #ffff00;">You had to equip yourself that long to be able to run CoA / VoeS / Chelsith / Chardok... or PR / SoH / VP? Well, for RE2 you need a bit of better equipment then MC but it dosn't take a half year to do so. And if you are going to kill the contested T8 raid mobs (the x2 and the Dominus x4 ones excluded) you are in a hardcore raiding guild. Not sure if they needed to farm the raid zone for a half year to do so. </span> And your statement ignores the part of Kizee's comment about fleshing out the endgame content.)<span style="color: #000000;"> <span style="color: #ffff00;">Hm, how often have you done KoS zones once EoF was launched? I have farmed Nest for masters 2-3 times each week and maybe once per month I have done another KoS instance to help a guild mate. But beside this I didn't use the KoS content anymore. Same goes for the raid zones (</span></span></span></span><span style="color: #ffff00;">though </span><span style="color: #ffff00;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">this took a bit longer). And same will be true for RoK zones and TSO.And I was a fan of a 5 level cap incresment for TSO: The very easy stuff (like KC) turns grey, the easy stuff (like CoA / PR..) would be green / blue and the "hard" zone would be blue /white (= new easy stuff). But with the low master drop rate it was </span>predictable that we would not see a new level cap with TSO.</span><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="color: #ffff00;"> At least the TSO AAs doesn't look as bland as the EoF ones.Finaly there will  be alwasy people who like to keep the level cap and people how like new levels as there will be alwasy the discussion hardcore vs. causal, easy mode vs hard way, donuts vs. muffins. And it will be impssible to convice the other ones <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></span></span><cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>gdawg311 wrote:</cite>...No, it's a prime example of finding a way to revamp a popular zone.  A lot of people, myself included like to go back to old zones we enjoyed when we were lower level while mentoring.  This gives people a chance to go back to a form of that zone that is endgame.  But you see, some people do try to enjoy ALL of the game, not just see the end game as the only thing worth it.  God forbid people enjoy more then the endgame...</blockquote>Designing a zone from scratch takes much longer / needs more man power then reusing the zone layout. If SOE would have made Kurns Tower instead of RE2 we may not have seen the revamp of EF or no live events or the GH would be delayed after TSO launch.  <span style="color: #ff0000;"><span style="color: #ff0000;">(Yes...which is a statement that basically agrees with my post.  My point was that with a RE2, 80th level characters get to do a zone similar to the original Runnyeye without mentoring.  If you're trying to argue against me on this, then you apparently misunderstood my comment to Gdawg311)<span style="color: #ffff00;"></span><span style="color: #ffff00;">Because I would have prefered a level cap increase and you are happy that it will not happen dosen't mean we can't agree in other points. Like reusing old zones is a good thing <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></span></span></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><p>1)  Yes, but Kizee also said this:  "I like the fact that they skip a expansion and flesh out the endgame content before increasing the cap again".  That was what I was referring to when I said you apparently ignored part of his comment.  </p><p>2)  I do know that TSO will have gear that will meet or exceed anything I own now.  VP class armor  will be equaled or exceeded by TSO equivelent fabled for instance.  What I meant is that I can most likely survive a harder TSO instance or raid without either a)  having to take the time to level and b)  Feel like my gear is useless even if I am the proper level for said raid simply because I'm in gear from one tier lower.  That is what I meant, I'm not suddenly "obsolete" the minute November 18th happens.  If I loot a lot of things when TSO is out that are upgrades, great!  But if I don't have such luck and/or I'm outbid in DKP the first few runs, I'm not crippled due to that.  My gear is still at least closer to being on par.  Or to put it another way, I will slowly replace my gear with TSO items, sure.  But I won't NEED to do it or feel like I might as well be naked in a TSO zone.</p><p>3)  You can only site yourself as an example when you state something like "How often have you done KoS zones after EoF came out".  Myself, yes I did more EoF, I'd be lying there.  But I didn't abandon going to KoS zones either.  I still enjoyed KoS zones even when EoF was out.  I'd still see in level chat calls for KoS zones.  And not just to quest or aid someone else in something like Claymore.  Mind you, many times it was alts not my main going to KoS zones, but even so I'd go there on my main also.  But I do enjoy both seeing new content and enjoying old, as stated before.  Anyway, yes KoS got used less by me, but it was far from abandoned.  Similar answer for me for raid zones, in our guild (raid alliance at the time) we did plenty of EoF raid zones, but still also did KoS too.</p><p>As an aside, since you mentioned hardcore raid guilds, I'm not in one.  I do have my mythical, but I got it June (or July, honestly can't remember.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  ) 2008, not when Epics first got patched into game.  Our guild clears Veeshan's Peak fine, clear SoH except for Byzola fine, (well Guild I raid with, I'm in a different one but I am Gathering Storms' OT, but I'm an exception, only one other isn't in that guild who's a regular raider) but we don't do Avatars at all.  So...more then casual, less then "hardcore" raid guild?  However you wish to define that.  Just trying to explain to do so.  Anyway, by saying taking six months to get gear to do endgame content, to be clear on that I meant endgame raid zones, or at least a place like Veeshan's Peak.  But again, our pace isn't hardcore raid guild.  Not knocking such, but it's not what I'd want to be in personally.  Raiding three days a week is plenty for me, I'd not want to do it more.  And raiding contested mobs never appealed to me enough to want to join a "hardcore" guild either.</p><p>4)  Fair enough, although I do still prefer a level cap once every other expansion.  I do think character growth is a lot more then just gaining 10 levels with each expansion.  But then again I also roleplay some, occasionally read the in game lore and so forth.  And agreed that this new AA tree might be more interesting and useful overall.  </p>