Koppar.... gone

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>I´ll stop playing with my necro untill they fix the big issues there are with the class. I get hit by 3k auto by rangers, that is 33% of my hp, and I have relly much hp for a necro a bit over 9k. It happends that I get oneshooted too, and how well designed is that a class can onehoot an other. How should I have a chance to even do something about that, and yes I can kill ppl but if I make one mistake I´m dead. And I dont do many mistakes but one freaking resist can be my death!?! I survive thou not get hit, but how easy is it to avoide beeing hit in a pvp figth. I get tired of noobs can kill me just cause they have such good gear and a good pvp class. I´ll migth start again with the expansion or I´ll quit the game/start new char. This is your last chance to fix my class SoE atleast for me. </p><p> I´ve proven that I can play my class but it´s no use when moast classes have such advantage over mine. So pls dont say that I ween ween cause I can´t play my class.</p><p>SoE fix the summoners, pls.</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>i've always found that constructive ideas were the best way to get change to happen.  constructive ideas lead to constructive discussions.  the trolls fire away at you, and so long as your ideas can be defended as fair and making the game better, you've gone a long way towards the fix yourself.</p><p>I wouldn't go so far as to say devs dont know pvp, but i dont think they know it better than we do.  So who should be coming up with ways to fix the summoners, soe devs who are forced under vicious torture to work on pvp, or the players who might have a good chance of designing a good fix?</p>

[ulleulle]

I can only begin to imagine the trouble a solo necro is facing in t8 pvp..my hat comes of for you for even trying.Now with that said i will throw in my own list of things that are making this game a really annoying gaming experience from time to time.Pvp belt/fear ring/Pumice stone.Belt because of the rewersed use of its intended function..It should be there to save you,but instead it is being used as a offensive tool to gank for easy fame..Fear ring makes healers close to impossible to kill for alot of classes.My 59 warlock will die in the most inhumane way when being pumiced,,the fight goes from me having a chance of victory to zero chance of victory..There is no in between here..One click and all my tactics and plans are out the window.All those hours spent on getting the right gear,using every potion,questing for defensive clicky´s.All of that is useless when compared to one single item that is not even hard to get..Atm i cant play my lock because of this dilemme..Miracles/blessings. Wont even talk about this..should be a no brainer to see how silly some of this can be when used in pvp.Lag.same as miraclesRaids getting updates on solo players and heroic groups.  same as miraclesAuto attack. Should be a pvp cap for boosting skills,I.E DA , DPS , Crit , haste should cap out alot faster for pvp then pve..Track. If this was a fps game it would be the same as having wallhack..I.E cheating imho..This is prolly the number one most powerfull tool in all of the classes toolboxes combined..Oh well..Not even sure what i am talking about here.I just know the frustrations in this game can be beyond what most ordinary people can handle.Also if you want to pvp by the book as a gentleman you will be destroyed by people that bend the rules and moral so much that you might aswell be playing a diffrent game compared to them =)Cheers all.P.S Better start praying warhammer sucks or this game is a goner..Doh!!  how could i forget : Using choker to stay under 50% hp to avoid fameloss.Ohhh man,,  dunno where to begin to explain how unbelieveable pathetic that is. 

[Bozidar]

if we could go ahead and keep this on topic of summoners survivability in pvp, that'd be great.  thanks, super.

[Bloodfa]

Necro's are (usually) a walking Mage update.  Summoner types have a very slim chance of survival if they make a single mistake, and even then sometimes it's just a foregone conclusion.  Several attempts have been made in the past to get them some love; this would be a great time to revive that same sort of unity that was prevalent last spring.  Nobody could say that Necro's were overpowered.  Suggestions for pet abilities, pet buffs, player abilities, new items, all these things were brought up.  Finding the one thing that they, you know, the guys actually playing them, would like to see boosted/tweaked/added to the game, and then getting it some dev-love has a pretty good chance of being looked at, and maybe implemented.  As a player who only has a T2 Necro, I don't have a lot of experience with the class.  But, I can tell you something as a T8 Scout: those pets don't do diddly against a human controlled opponent.  "Next PvP Target" button, then resume attack.  Head back to Fautuna, get my coin, and grab a new writ.  Considering that the pet is brought back from the dead to do the Necromancer's bidding, you'd think it would work a little harder at keeping my attention, right?

[ulleulle]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>if we could go ahead and keep this on topic of summoners survivability in pvp, that'd be great.  thanks, super.</blockquote>My bad..Just had some stuff to vent out..Anyways about summoners,,.it seems clear to me that the fix should come from the pets..Tank pet should have shared hp with the necro..must drain pets life before killing the necro..hits taken by necro will drain life from tank pet..no putting the pet at some safe location and then pvp at 0.1hp like crazy. should work as a form for manashield  with a 1 - 0.5 ratio--If i remember right those tank pets are rock hard to kill..mage pet should teleport/root targets ala warlock..and at the same time provide better burst dps.maybe have a minor form for manashield that the necro can tap into-scout pet should clear targets and intercede the necro, ala "appeal for mercy and honor among thieves" that the brig have,Should also snare and stun occasionally..Hope this if what you where refering to bozidar ..Cheers all

[Emolad]

good bye koppar, you wont be back

[Bozidar]

<p>I think a form of manashield for summoners is a great idea.  Instead of manasheield it's Minion Shield <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  You hit the necro but the pet's life goes down, not theirs.  Might need to see how this would work with life-burn, but otherwise i think that's a GREAT survivability idea (assuming their pets dont have 1k health and would be 1-shot by a melee fury)</p><p>all those ideas were great, man, keep em coming.</p>

[Bloodfa]

I like the Minion Shield idea.  Seriously, add in 1 spell/AP tweak, whatever ... but that's pretty sweet.  A damage redirect.  Nice.

[Dh]

<p>This is what happens. The Devs ignore the fact that people resist spells in PVP at level 80 about 1000% too often and good players leave. </p><p>An in-game poll system that people could choose to take once a week or so could greatly improve this game. Let guilds over a certain level submit polls that other players can take regarding popular issues. Then all we need are Devs to watch over them and see the results! Imagine actual changes that get voted on by all the players of the game since we dont have a test server for PVP. We might actually end up with a very balanced game! lol</p>

[Ze]

<cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I´ll stop playing with my necro untill they fix the big issues there are with the class. I get hit by 3k auto by rangers, that is 33% of my hp, and I have relly much hp for a necro a bit over 9k. It happends that I get oneshooted too, and how well designed is that a class can onehoot an other. How should I have a chance to even do something about that, and yes I can kill ppl but if I make one mistake I´m dead. And I dont do many mistakes but one freaking resist can be my death!?! I survive thou not get hit, but how easy is it to avoide beeing hit in a pvp figth. I get tired of noobs can kill me just cause they have such good gear and a good pvp class. I´ll migth start again with the expansion or I´ll quit the game/start new char. This is your last chance to fix my class SoE atleast for me. </p><p> I´ve proven that I can play my class but it´s no use when moast classes have such advantage over mine. So pls dont say that I ween ween cause I can´t play my class.</p><p>SoE fix the summoners, pls.</p></blockquote><p>What strikes me is that this reads exactly as posts we saw on EQ forums almost a dacade ago.</p><p>If 10 years didn't suffice, it is safe to assume someone in the dev department thinks rangers SHOULD be able to autoattack mages for 30% of their HPs. </p>

[Paikis]

<cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Imagine actual changes that get voted on by all the players of the game</span> since we dont have a test server for PVP. We might actually end up with a very balanced game! lol</p></blockquote>Please god no. Worst idea ever.

[Faenril]

Sad to see Koppar retired, but easily understandable. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a fix that will revert the necro/ranger outcome of a fight though. Hope you will still play the defiler and we can meet on the battleground...

[Guld_Ulrish]

It´s not just rangers, many more classes have a big advantage on summoners. And no I wont play my defiler until they fix so my mitigation buff dont put me in combat when I´m hit. That is an other big issue Shamans mitigation buff has been broken since RoK came out. You cant pvp when you get forced into combat everytime somone hit me.

[Emolad]

Stop playing classes that are horrible in pvp.

[Elephanton]

SOE reduce auto-attack in T8 PVP for god's sake

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>What is wrong with Yige? And what have I done to you?</p>

[Emolad]

You just complain about necros being sh*t(what i cant say sh-t? wow) in pvp, yet when you mention an alt, its a defiler. Why not try a scout? Stop QQing, and PewPew more.

[Izzypop]

<cite>Emolad@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>You just complain about necros being sh*t(what i cant say sh-t? wow) in pvp, yet when you mention an alt, its a defiler. Why not try a scout? Stop QQing, and PewPew more.</blockquote> Bards, Shamen, Summoners, Enchanters, and guardians are all sub par solo classes especially when compared to brigands. Try forming raid without Bards, Shamen, Summoners, Enchanters, or a guardian. Weak pvp classes play a vital role in the PVE aspect of the game, so someone needs to be a team player and play the needed classes so their guild can progress. Let's see how far a raid progresses with nothing but brigands, sorcerers, druids, and brawlers. Class balance is broken, and the only possible reason for a player to have to defend the status quo with a defense as weak as "Just go roll a scout" is that they play a completely broken and overpowered class like a brigand. Class balance will never be perfect, it will always be at least a little bit off, but there is no excuse for SOE to leave it in a state that is completely borked.

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>lol Yige, ofcourse I complain about necros cause it´s true. And yes I have a defiler, and there is nothing wrong with em he would proly own you, all I said was that defilers mitigation buff is bugged, so I get forced into combat everytime I get hit. </p><p>And I´ve tried playing brig/swash, and that is easymode . I played my bros t8 scout for a month and even the first day I played was it easy mode. And thb scout is the moast boring class in pvp.</p>

[ulleulle]

<cite>Guld_Ulrish wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>lol Yige, ofcourse I complain about necros cause it´s true. And yes I have a defiler, and there is nothing wrong with em he would proly own you, all I said was that defilers mitigation buff is bugged, so I get forced into combat everytime I get hit. </p><p>And I´ve tried playing brig/swash, and that is easymode . I played my bros t8 scout for a month and even the first day I played was it easy mode. And thb scout is the moast boring class in pvp.</p></blockquote>Agree..But with track and a almost 100% guarenteed evac on the run in the game there is abosolutely 110% no way around not playing em..sad but true...When i play my scout and dont play "pro mode" AKA where i always jump ppl at the best time suited for me ,my scout usually ends up in some really fun and also challenging matches..It all revovles around the opponent sees u and maybe has 2-5 sec to prepare for a battle.But when instead we as scouts jump ppl at the best time for us and prolly the worst time for you,,thats when u see some really nasty stuff ..THAT IS THE REAL UNBALANCE IN THIS GAME IMHO...Offcource there are the always hot topics like resist rates,autoattaks.god spells,PVP belt ,e.t.cBut give almost all classes a small amount of time to get rdy for battle instead of the WHAM BAM YOU ARE ATTACKED BY SCOUT #10000 AND HAVE 0.5 - 1 sec to react, and you wouldent worry so much about scouts imho..Cheers all..Jabib the not so pro brigand..

[gfx]

bye koppar, is it true that you bought fame off uewee?

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>Sorry Vinasaar I´m not like you and buy fame. I´ve never even killed Uewee. And I dont care about my titel so much. But good luck on you titel, must be hard to get it when you sit on a pillar all day long in kp docks.</p>

[gfx]

are you saying I buy fame? can you proove that? please... lol, I sit on the pillar all day? hm okay. What happened when you and that swash or brigand tried to kill me on the ground? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />you ran, let the swash beat me a bit, you came back, I killed him, killed you. gg.

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>I´m not the one coming with accusations<b>.</b></p><p> The thing that I think is fun on this game is all "grown up" ppl that behaive like small children. I undrestand if I hurt your feelings when I said that your pvp video was bad. And Grats Mr Easymode on killing a necro and a brig when you sat on a rock and took 80% of my hp in 1 hit.</p>

[gfx]

you didn't hurt my feelings, and I didn't take 80% of your hp, you actually parried my first auto attack. I didn't come up with any accusations, I asked. You came up with the accusation, sir.

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>No use to keep discussing this even.</p><p>GG you killed me. </p><p>No I dont buy fame. </p>

[gfx]

All right. Neither do I.

[Vlahkmaak]

Yes everyone, delete yourself and re roll a brig, swaashy, ranger, or assassin and then we can officially petition Smedly to change the name to <i>Everscout - evac inc!!!</i>

[Emolad]

<cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Emolad@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>You just complain about necros being sh*t(what i cant say sh-t? wow) in pvp, yet when you mention an alt, its a defiler. Why not try a scout? Stop QQing, and PewPew more.</blockquote>Bards, Shamen, Summoners, Enchanters, and guardians are all sub par solo classes especially when compared to brigands. Try forming raid without Bards, Shamen, Summoners, Enchanters, or a guardian. Weak pvp classes play a vital role in the PVE aspect of the game, so someone needs to be a team player and play the needed classes so their guild can progress. Let's see how far a raid progresses with nothing but brigands, sorcerers, druids, and brawlers. Class balance is broken, and the only possible reason for a player to have to defend the status quo with a defense as weak as "Just go roll a scout" is that they play a completely broken and overpowered class like a brigand. Class balance will never be perfect, it will always be at least a little bit off, but there is no excuse for SOE to leave it in a state that is completely borked.</blockquote>HAHAHA, BARDS SUBPAR? Wow, anyone with half a brain knows that troubs are beasts for soloing

[Izzypop]

<cite>Emolad@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Izzypop wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Emolad@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote>You just complain about necros being sh*t(what i cant say sh-t? wow) in pvp, yet when you mention an alt, its a defiler. Why not try a scout? Stop QQing, and PewPew more.</blockquote>Bards, Shamen, Summoners, Enchanters, and guardians are all sub par solo classes especially when compared to brigands. Try forming raid without Bards, Shamen, Summoners, Enchanters, or a guardian. Weak pvp classes play a vital role in the PVE aspect of the game, so someone needs to be a team player and play the needed classes so their guild can progress. Let's see how far a raid progresses with nothing but brigands, sorcerers, druids, and brawlers. Class balance is broken, and the only possible reason for a player to have to defend the status quo with a defense as weak as "Just go roll a scout" is that they play a completely broken and overpowered class like a brigand. Class balance will never be perfect, it will always be at least a little bit off, but there is no excuse for SOE to leave it in a state that is completely borked.</blockquote>HAHAHA, BARDS SUBPAR? Wow, anyone with half a brain knows that troubs are beasts for soloing</blockquote> Bards includes dirges, if you average solo troubs and dirges out and compare them to brigands bards look like a great big heaping dung heap. It doesn't change the fact that "Just go roll a scout" is the worse possible defence of the status quo. Attempts to derail my statement only confirm that your position is undefendable.

[Fluffyhairball]

<p>I allso play a t8 pvp necro and u dont even wanna know how hard it is. U cant even but guards or bards on the same line whit them.</p><p>There is a 2 things that makes necros a broken pvp class </p><p>1. melee auto attack and i just dont mean rangers, sure rangers can one shot me but i get brigs and swassys hitting me for 2 k autoatack dmg when they duoble attack thats 4 k. and zerger one shotted me not long time ago heh.</p><p>2. spell reisist is allmost the worst one coz the one defense we have is a snare/stun/fear and 80 % ppl are immun to one of thous whit pots/signets or sometimes immun to stun/fear so u can imagine the fun of getting couple spell reisist one target that can auto attack u to the death in 2 secs.</p><p> I know there is lot of ppl playing scouts that wuold hate to see their high melee attack dmg nerfed coz most of them play the class for the easy way of it. But plz if that cant be done lest give summoners the same thing =)) </p><p>Here comes the idea of the year.... 3 k auto attack to our scout pet. yeah u heard me that wuold get it bellanced out and all fair heh. our nukes dont hit harder then rangers ca. </p><p> Anywas just trying to keep this talk going on. Maby we can get couple more pages so devs wuold actualy make some changes to classes and not give the only option to play a scout.</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

The thing is that my heviest spell in pvp does about 800-1k dmg with a 2 sek casting abnd about 40% resist on that spell. My dmg spells are useless in pvp.

[Krakelkr]

I don't like when they change classes too much so I tend to disagree with most/all of the proposed new abilities for necros. I would tend to think that improving what is already there would be they way to go and at the same time that would mean that necros will still be necros. Wouldn't it be better to make a fear and/or root uncureable or improving other abilities that are already there?

[Enoe]

I agree autoattack is nice for me these days. Last week i killed 80 illu in 1 sec ( Mar+ 2xdouble autoattack - im dw) but...Ok for example guardians doesnt have any CC - our CA's are a joke compare to scouts one so all what we have is autoattack. Ok I know we have root but - it is really hard to use and resists a lot too so basicaly in pvp it is useless. Anyway - i agree necros need a little more love but as i admited in other topic lately i dueled Guld few times - he won 4-1.Why? He hes CC and while he runs pet stll can do dmg. In 2 of this fights i never had a chance to be close enough to make 1 autoattack. And somehow when i get to the sword range i was taunted by pet. So stop crying everyone - for most of u best way is to nerf everyone cause u sux. Why i killed illu in 1 sec - cause he didnt use his CC spells. Problem is in the wild you dont have much fair duels - a lot of it is a jump and quick kill. I was once one shooted by double fission so... should i cry nerf wiz?Now yea give guardians mezz and working root, let us have our reflexes w/o stiffle, what the hell i want a heal too!!! give us this and we can consider reducing autoattack dmg <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Are there sick demands? Yea ofc - but yours nerf one are same stupid.PS Guld u r my favorite necro and most skilled in pvp - its shame u will be gone<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Fluffyhairball]

<p>kk i got to say guards necros can kill</p><p>but when it comes to CC u got to kow how ppl play</p><p> it goes like this i cast my fear right at the start 40 % it gets resited or if it lands they use a potion. my cc is gone and BTW if its a ranger we cant get close to cast the fear even if he knows how to play hes class that is. </p><p>kk i have stun after that lets say i dosent get resisted and it lands all i can do is snare and RUN.  thats how good of CC we have</p>

[Guld_Ulrish]

<p>Thb necros have good CC, Fear if the use pots, we got a 5 sek stun and a 2 sek taunt with the pet. And You can often kill the other player under thoes 7 seks, and as Enoe said if you are able to kite the enemy they have almost no other chanse then just auto with the bow. The 2 sek taunt is the best CC we have and necros who dont use it wisely will die, it´s all about timing. The bigest problems is mages with MS and rangers.</p><p>And when ppl say that not all classes can be good solo, they forget that summoners are not good atall in group pvp either, they are the worst class in solo and group pvp.</p>

[Bozidar]

how about when the mage AA tree comes out they've got points that all casters can put in to improve their skills to reduce resists?  Not sure how else to reduce resists other than to increase subjugation or disruption.

[Bloodfa]

You mean something that would attempt to overpower a resist?  A modifier to spell potency? 

[Paikis]

<cite>Enoe wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I agree autoattack is nice for me these days. Last week i killed 80 illu in 1 sec ( Mar+ 2xdouble autoattack - im dw) but...Ok for example guardians doesnt have any CC - our CA's are a joke compare to scouts one so all what we have is autoattack. Ok I know we have <span style="color: #ff0000;">root but - it is really hard to use and resists a lot</span> too so <snip></p></blockquote><p>Wrong, Plant is 100% hit rate. If they're in range, they will be rooted. No exceptions.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Zerp wrote:</cite><blockquote>What strikes me is that this reads exactly as posts we saw on EQ forums almost a dacade ago.</blockquote><p>"Almost a decade ago" on Rallos Zek, Necro was considered one of the premiere PvP classes & Rangers were not so highly regarded.</p><p>As for people who say "Just roll a Scout" ... seriously, that's one of the most thoughtless responses I've ever seen on these forums.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>how about when the mage AA tree comes out they've got points that all casters can put in to improve their skills to reduce resists?  Not sure how else to reduce resists other than to increase subjugation or disruption.</blockquote>Well, considering you can cap your spell skills and still be flat out resisted on very large amounts of casts, that is an already tried and proven wrong way. Resists, mitigation, procs, autoattack and CA and spell damages all have to be reworked and rebalanced for all classes for pvp.

[Bozidar]

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>how about when the mage AA tree comes out they've got points that all casters can put in to improve their skills to reduce resists?  Not sure how else to reduce resists other than to increase subjugation or disruption.</blockquote>Well, considering you can cap your spell skills and still be flat out resisted on very large amounts of casts, that is an already tried and proven wrong way. Resists, mitigation, procs, autoattack and CA and spell damages all have to be reworked and rebalanced for all classes for pvp.</blockquote><p>but maybe it doesn't HAVE to be reworked as much as you think.</p><p>if a predators offensive stance gives them a virtually 100% chance of hitting a clothy, why can't all clothies buy a buff that gives them the same kind of benefits for some other sacrifice?</p><p>look, i dont have all the answers, but i think we can look to define smaller options that might be implimented (especially if they have a pve crossover) instead of trying to ask for a full re-vamp which will never happen.</p><p>think of small changes, make a big impact.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>how about when the mage AA tree comes out they've got points that all casters can put in to improve their skills to reduce resists?  Not sure how else to reduce resists other than to increase subjugation or disruption.</blockquote>Well, considering you can cap your spell skills and still be flat out resisted on very large amounts of casts, that is an already tried and proven wrong way. Resists, mitigation, procs, autoattack and CA and spell damages all have to be reworked and rebalanced for all classes for pvp.</blockquote><p>but maybe it doesn't HAVE to be reworked as much as you think.</p><p>if a predators offensive stance gives them a virtually 100% chance of hitting a clothy, why can't all clothies buy a buff that gives them the same kind of benefits for some other sacrifice?</p><p>look, i dont have all the answers, but i think we can look to define smaller options that might be implimented (especially if they have a pve crossover) instead of trying to ask for a full re-vamp which will never happen.</p><p>think of small changes, make a big impact.</p></blockquote>the thing is, the devs have been at it doing small changes since the server came out and we are still at square one. We even moved backwards a bit. There is a flaw at the very base of the system. Patching it higher up will only make the system more complex than it needs be.

[Bozidar]

<p>the system works at lvl 10.  the system works from 10-65 fairly well.</p><p>the system fails when end-game gear rewarded for killing x4 mobs 5 levels higher than the wearer is used against a player of equal level.</p><p>If the skills are capped and the resists rates are still as high as everyone claims, then maybe something needs to be looked at (again) across the board in terms of resist rates.  </p><p>Honestly, the best way to get anything changed is to get the pve folks and pvp folks both wanting it.</p><p>I realize that you're jaided from the other experiences with game changes, but it doesn't change the fact that it's hard to ask for huge things to be done in pvp, because they dont have the hands on deck to take care of it.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>the system works at lvl 10.  the system works from 10-65 fairly well.</p><p>the system fails when end-game gear rewarded for killing x4 mobs 5 levels higher than the wearer is used against a player of equal level.</p><p>If the skills are capped and the resists rates are still as high as everyone claims, then maybe something needs to be looked at (again) across the board in terms of resist rates.  </p><p>Honestly, the best way to get anything changed is to get the pve folks and pvp folks both wanting it.</p><p>I realize that you're jaided from the other experiences with game changes, but it doesn't change the fact that it's hard to ask for huge things to be done in pvp, because they dont have the hands on deck to take care of it.</p></blockquote>they've broken the system pretty much with every expansion.It was broken in KoS, they broke it in EoF, and they broke it in RoK.the reason they keep breaking it is that they give too much stuff. In PvE it doesnt really matter. In PvP it seriously fornicates up balance. they either need to rework the mitigation/resists and retool damage output, or completely separate pvp and pve gear. As in, PvE gear cant be used in pvp and vice versa.

[Izzypop]

<cite>Paikis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Enoe wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I agree autoattack is nice for me these days. Last week i killed 80 illu in 1 sec ( Mar+ 2xdouble autoattack - im dw) but...Ok for example guardians doesnt have any CC - our CA's are a joke compare to scouts one so all what we have is autoattack. Ok I know we have <span style="color: #ff0000;">root but - it is really hard to use and resists a lot</span> too so </p></blockquote><p>Wrong, Plant is 100% hit rate. If they're in range, they will be rooted. No exceptions.</p></blockquote><p>Plant self roots the guardian as well</p><p>Plant is a point blank AOE with a very short range.</p><p>The range of plant is so short if you smack the enemy with your only stun that is also a knockback they are thrown out of melee range of the guardian whom self rooted himself with plant and looking stupid.</p><p>Plant can not be resisted.  If it seems to be resisted the target is either out of range, or just clicked a freedom of action potion.  Either way the guardian is still self rooted and looking stupid.</p><p>Plant is just not a very good root for a 1v1 fight, but is good for group fights.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>they've broken the system pretty much with every expansion.It was broken in KoS, they broke it in EoF, and they broke it in RoK.the reason they keep breaking it is that they give too much stuff. In PvE it doesnt really matter. In PvP it seriously fornicates up balance. they either need to rework the mitigation/resists and retool damage output, or completely separate pvp and pve gear. As in, PvE gear cant be used in pvp and vice versa.</blockquote><p>These problems have been truths of EQ PvP ever since Luclin was released & itemization balance took a major nose dive.</p><p>I suspect -- big surprise, here -- that these will remain true of all iterations of EQ PvP, because the designers & developers place PvE well above PvP on the priority ladder & are not likely to change that philosophy. EQ2 is a PvE game with PvP tacked on as an afterthought, just like PvP was in EQ1.</p><p>I honestly think that banging the drums for PvP class balance in this game is one of the deadest of dead horsies.</p>

[Dh]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I honestly think that banging the drums for PvP class balance in this game is one of the deadest of dead horsies.</p></blockquote>They could at least lower PVP spell resist rates FFS!

[Aldhissla]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>they've broken the system pretty much with every expansion.It was broken in KoS, they broke it in EoF, and they broke it in RoK.the reason they keep breaking it is that they give too much stuff. In PvE it doesnt really matter. In PvP it seriously fornicates up balance. they either need to rework the mitigation/resists and retool damage output, or completely separate pvp and pve gear. As in, PvE gear cant be used in pvp and vice versa.</blockquote><p>These problems have been truths of EQ PvP ever since Luclin was released & itemization balance took a major nose dive.</p><p>I suspect -- big surprise, here -- that these will remain true of all iterations of EQ PvP, because the designers & developers place PvE well above PvP on the priority ladder & are not likely to change that philosophy. EQ2 is a PvE game with PvP tacked on as an afterthought, just like PvP was in EQ1.</p><p>I honestly think that banging the drums for PvP class balance in this game is one of the deadest of dead horsies.</p></blockquote>WIS aa line end ability removes the self root. Pretty much a must if you want to solo pvp at all with a guardian.

[Shadow_Viper]

Aye SOE, the summoners do need some love.

[Bozidar]

<cite>Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>they've broken the system pretty much with every expansion.It was broken in KoS, they broke it in EoF, and they broke it in RoK.the reason they keep breaking it is that they give too much stuff. In PvE it doesnt really matter. In PvP it seriously fornicates up balance. they either need to rework the mitigation/resists and retool damage output, or completely separate pvp and pve gear. As in, PvE gear cant be used in pvp and vice versa.</blockquote><p>your last suggestion is pretty far out there.  as in - it makes no sense.</p><p>Does anyone know how resists work in pve?  Do mobs have certain levels of subjugation/disruption, ect, and that is calculated based on the players resistance percentage against that level of skill?  I'm fairly certain that's how it works in pvp, but i know for example the mitigation system in pve and pvp is completely different.</p>

[Valenti]

I just thought I would remind everyone that Conjys DON'T get fear (besides cloak and a few item procs which a neco can get too) and to add that BOTH (not just Necros just because more people play them) summoners need fixing!