Looking for some group Guard tanking pointers.

[steelbadger]

I've been playing my alt guard a lot recently, he's now lvl 65 and having great fun in SoS.  He's in Xego armour with a mishmash of quested and crafted jewellery from T5-T7, all taunts and buffs and temp buffs are adept III but some of my lower dps DD's are only app IV, I simply cannot afford to upgrade everything to adept III at my current levelling pace.  My issue is thus:I like to chain pull, and I like to chain pull multiple encounters.  This is the basis of most of my problems.1)  Holding aggro on 4-6 groups of mobs is easy peasy with reinforcement and I try to do too many room pulls with reinforcement down, but because I am quite often selecting my next pull target before the current mob is dead I sometimes see a caster nuke a mob on the other side of the room which runs for us with his 4 social friends.  It tends to be rather difficult to hold aggro in this situation, I can usually pick up most of the incoming mobs, and drop my group temp buffs to reduce damage but I wonder if you experienced guards have any tactics for dealing with "Oh Crap" moments when all of your big stuff is down?2)  Power.  I have, so far, always rolled with an enchanter/bard in my SoS groups but that is more through luck than design.  I always run with food/drink, power totems and any hearts/shards I can find.  If I have an enchanter I get mana flow as often as possible.  I still have power issues.  If I have a single healer this is less of an issue for me as the healer tends to run OOP at the same time as me, but when in a dual-healer group I find myself holding the group back and often going OOP half way through an important encounter, usually I can keep aggro due to residual aggro but quite often they will go elsewhere.  How can I have better power management while not losing my aggro management?3)  Very specific; how do you effectively keep aggro off a well geared Bruiser?  Even with a dirge, hate transfer from a high dps assassin and moderate on the bruiser I still find them pinging aggro from me maybe once every couple of fights, this is annoying as my pride causes me to use my emergencies just to get aggro back from the bruiser on a mob that only lasts 6 seconds and I know rescue would be better used elsewhere.  How do you reliably keep aggro off a Bruiser?Thanks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[dirtymeat80]

<cite>steelbadger wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've been playing my alt guard a lot recently, he's now lvl 65 and having great fun in SoS.  He's in Xego armour with a mishmash of quested and crafted jewellery from T5-T7, all taunts and buffs and temp buffs are adept III but some of my lower dps DD's are only app IV, I simply cannot afford to upgrade everything to adept III at my current levelling pace.  My issue is thus:I like to chain pull, and I like to chain pull multiple encounters.  This is the basis of most of my problems.1)  Holding aggro on 4-6 groups of mobs is easy peasy with reinforcement and I try to do too many room pulls with reinforcement down, but because I am quite often selecting my next pull target before the current mob is dead I sometimes see a caster nuke a mob on the other side of the room which runs for us with his 4 social friends.  It tends to be rather difficult to hold aggro in this situation, I can usually pick up most of the incoming mobs, and drop my group temp buffs to reduce damage but I wonder if you experienced guards have any tactics for dealing with "Oh Crap" moments when all of your big stuff is down?<b>Well, one way would be don't select extra mobs till your done with your current encounter <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />In that type of situation though, I would designate a Main Assist and have everyone target them instead of you.  I've seen that same thing happen when I hit Tab to go to the next mob, and since the group is usually just targeted on the Tank, they're just casting spells and can shoot one off when you target a mob outside current encounter.  In the Oh Crap moments, I pop the Stone Spear, find out who has aggro and Intercede - plus it helps to root all the mobs, and have everyone just move a tad since when a mob is rooted, they just go for the closest person.</b>2)  Power.  I have, so far, always rolled with an enchanter/bard in my SoS groups but that is more through luck than design.  I always run with food/drink, power totems and any hearts/shards I can find.  If I have an enchanter I get mana flow as often as possible.  I still have power issues.  If I have a single healer this is less of an issue for me as the healer tends to run OOP at the same time as me, but when in a dual-healer group I find myself holding the group back and often going OOP half way through an important encounter, usually I can keep aggro due to residual aggro but quite often they will go elsewhere.  How can I have better power management while not losing my aggro management?<b>Buckler setup or otherwise?  With a buckler setup, you can get your double attack way up there and use auto attack a lot more.  You'll have to do your own testing as far as how many buttons you can hit or not hit and still keep aggro.  I've had trouble with some random group members who only watch their own Power, and the nukers are still unloading everything they can, even though you're low on power and cannot do the dps/aggro you need to do.  Use Reinforcement early on for fights you know are going to be long.  Also, when you finish the STA line, you get some power converted to health, as well as use less power.......it's very handy.</b>3)  Very specific; how do you effectively keep aggro off a well geared Bruiser?  Even with a dirge, hate transfer from a high dps assassin and moderate on the bruiser I still find them pinging aggro from me maybe once every couple of fights, this is annoying as my pride causes me to use my emergencies just to get aggro back from the bruiser on a mob that only lasts 6 seconds and I know rescue would be better used elsewhere.  How do you reliably keep aggro off a Bruiser?<b>If the mob is only going to last 6 seconds, just finish off the fight and call it a day.  Bruiser can take some hits so let him, or tell him to tone it down.  There's nothing else you can do except communicate with someone who is over dps'ing.</b>Thanks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>

[Thunderthyze]

<cite>steelbadger wrote:</cite><blockquote>Holding aggro on 4-6 groups of mobs is easy peasy with reinforcement and I try to do too many room pulls with reinforcement down, but because I am quite often selecting my next pull target before the current mob is dead I sometimes see a caster nuke a mob on the other side of the room which runs for us with his 4 social friends.  It tends to be rather difficult to hold aggro in this situation, I can usually pick up most of the incoming mobs, and drop my group temp buffs to reduce damage but I wonder if you experienced guards have any tactics for dealing with "Oh Crap" moments when all of your big stuff is down?</blockquote><p>Setup an emote macro calling into question the mob's parentage. Follow it up with a "Who you looking at?" and finish off with a "C'mon if you think you're hard enough!"</p><p>Job done.</p>

[Oo]

<cite>steelbadger wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've been playing my alt guard a lot recently, he's now lvl 65 and having great fun in SoS.  He's in Xego armour with a mishmash of quested and crafted jewellery from T5-T7, all taunts and buffs and temp buffs are adept III but some of my lower dps DD's are only app IV, I simply cannot afford to upgrade everything to adept III at my current levelling pace.  My issue is thus:I like to chain pull, and I like to chain pull multiple encounters.  This is the basis of most of my problems.1)  Holding aggro on 4-6 groups of mobs is easy peasy with reinforcement and I try to do too many room pulls with reinforcement down, but because I am quite often selecting my next pull target before the current mob is dead I sometimes see a caster nuke a mob on the other side of the room which runs for us with his 4 social friends.  It tends to be rather difficult to hold aggro in this situation, I can usually pick up most of the incoming mobs, and drop my group temp buffs to reduce damage but I wonder if you experienced guards have any tactics for dealing with "Oh Crap" moments when all of your big stuff is down?2)  Power.  I have, so far, always rolled with an enchanter/bard in my SoS groups but that is more through luck than design.  I always run with food/drink, power totems and any hearts/shards I can find.  If I have an enchanter I get mana flow as often as possible.  I still have power issues.  If I have a single healer this is less of an issue for me as the healer tends to run OOP at the same time as me, but when in a dual-healer group I find myself holding the group back and often going OOP half way through an important encounter, usually I can keep aggro due to residual aggro but quite often they will go elsewhere.  How can I have better power management while not losing my aggro management?3)  Very specific; how do you effectively keep aggro off a well geared Bruiser?  Even with a dirge, hate transfer from a high dps assassin and moderate on the bruiser I still find them pinging aggro from me maybe once every couple of fights, this is annoying as my pride causes me to use my emergencies just to get aggro back from the bruiser on a mob that only lasts 6 seconds and I know rescue would be better used elsewhere.  How do you reliably keep aggro off a Bruiser?Thanks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Note that nearly every Tank has a different idea of how the job is done from a technique standpoint.  Here are my thoughts though:</p><p>Let me first say that, if what you "like" to do is causing you and your group "problems" maybe you need to be more flexible for the sake of the group.  Change your strategy and technique so that you don't cause problems for your group.</p><p>1.  Maybe I am a slow-pulling tank, but I tend not to pull multiple multi-mob groups.  If you like to pull 4-6 multi-mob groups, that seems overkill in anything but green dungeons.  That will certainly wipe your group routinely in RoK.  It's been said many times, Guardians are not the best multi-mob tanks.   We have skills that help with that, as you know.  The best way to improve that is to beef up the AAs in the Warrior tree to reduce the reuse speed for reinforcement, stone sphere, tower of stone, rescue, etc.  Also, going 4,1 in the AGI line will give you one more AoE attack to use with your reinforcement.  </p><p>It doesn't do you a lot of good to target a mob that you can't get first agro on (across the room).  Once your caster hits him first, you'll be working that much harder to get the agro back, which isn't good if you are pulling multiple groups.  A better way to pull another group is to drag the first group to it and set off an AE attack.  Even just being the first in your group to get in range of the new mobs will body pull them and put you on the mob's hate list.  </p><p>As for oh crap moments, those are really something that show the skill of each group member, not just the tank.  Of course, use whatever you have at your disposal - intervene on whomever is taking it the worst, stone sphere, reinforcement/rescue to get agro, wall of force, command, plant, tower of stone, worst case Unyielding Will for the good of the group.  But others need to do their part - mezzes, hate reduction, emergency heals, etc.</p><p>2.  I am usually the last to lose power in my group.  The final ability in the STA line helps.  Also focus on STR gear.  Practice using more autoattacks and less button-mashing.  This is particularly true in RoK where you will have a lot of Double Attack (STA line ftw).  Finally, as you said, keep totems/potions on autoconsume.  </p><p>3.  I have almost no experience tanking for bruisers since I came to the PvP servers on launch.  If they have a hate transfer, that would help.  Also, be sure the bruiser isn't in a stance that increases its hate gain.  It's also the bruiser's responsibility to manage its own hate.  I have found that fighter classes who aren't the tank often have a hard time letting it go.  It's as if they want to prove that they can get agro and take the damage as well as the guardian.  Have your healer let them die a couple of times and maybe it will stop.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[steelbadger]

<cite>dirtymeat80 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>steelbadger wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've been playing my alt guard a lot recently, he's now lvl 65 and having great fun in SoS.  He's in Xego armour with a mishmash of quested and crafted jewellery from T5-T7, all taunts and buffs and temp buffs are adept III but some of my lower dps DD's are only app IV, I simply cannot afford to upgrade everything to adept III at my current levelling pace.  My issue is thus:I like to chain pull, and I like to chain pull multiple encounters.  This is the basis of most of my problems.1)  Holding aggro on 4-6 groups of mobs is easy peasy with reinforcement and I try to do too many room pulls with reinforcement down, but because I am quite often selecting my next pull target before the current mob is dead I sometimes see a caster nuke a mob on the other side of the room which runs for us with his 4 social friends.  It tends to be rather difficult to hold aggro in this situation, I can usually pick up most of the incoming mobs, and drop my group temp buffs to reduce damage but I wonder if you experienced guards have any tactics for dealing with "Oh Crap" moments when all of your big stuff is down?<b>Well, one way would be don't select extra mobs till your done with your current encounter <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />In that type of situation though, I would designate a Main Assist and have everyone target them instead of you.  I've seen that same thing happen when I hit Tab to go to the next mob, and since the group is usually just targeted on the Tank, they're just casting spells and can shoot one off when you target a mob outside current encounter.  In the Oh Crap moments, I pop the Stone Spear, find out who has aggro and Intercede - plus it helps to root all the mobs, and have everyone just move a tad since when a mob is rooted, they just go for the closest person.</b><span style="color: #99ccff;"><i><span style="color: #99ccff;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">Hang on...  does that mean slow down? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />They tend to be pick up groups at the moment, so communication tends to be minimal and I just barrel along corridors on the assumption that a healer will probably catch up with me at some point <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Aside from that thats pretty much what I do, though I am somewhat prone to forgetting about sentry watch and intercede.  I'm also a mouse-targetter (I find tab really frustrating on multiple encounter pulls as it doesn't want to switch encounters).When I see someone lob a nuke at an unengaged mob I tend to move to intercept the mob, hit it with whatever I have up in the hope of gaining aggro and then root it in a safe place, but I just tend to run out of taunts in multiple encounter fights, my root only lasts 7.5 seconds, is it worth getting the enhancement AA?  I'm currently putting AA's in Rescue, Reinforcement, Sentry watch and taunting strike upgrades.</span></span></i></span><i></i>2)  Power.  I have, so far, always rolled with an enchanter/bard in my SoS groups but that is more through luck than design.  I always run with food/drink, power totems and any hearts/shards I can find.  If I have an enchanter I get mana flow as often as possible.  I still have power issues.  If I have a single healer this is less of an issue for me as the healer tends to run OOP at the same time as me, but when in a dual-healer group I find myself holding the group back and often going OOP half way through an important encounter, usually I can keep aggro due to residual aggro but quite often they will go elsewhere.  How can I have better power management while not losing my aggro management?<b>Buckler setup or otherwise?  With a buckler setup, you can get your double attack way up there and use auto attack a lot more.  You'll have to do your own testing as far as how many buttons you can hit or not hit and still keep aggro.  I've had trouble with some random group members who only watch their own Power, and the nukers are still unloading everything they can, even though you're low on power and cannot do the dps/aggro you need to do.  Use Reinforcement early on for fights you know are going to be long.  Also, when you finish the STA line, you get some power converted to health, as well as use less power.......it's very handy.</b><span style="color: #99ccff;"><i><span style="color: #99ccff;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">I entirely for durability, so I've gone AGI-4458, STA-8 and INT-4448.  That gets me +13 defence and +15.8 parry which should translate to a pretty large increase in avoidance...  Should I even expect to have really solid multi-encounter aggro with nothing in STR or STA lines?  I'm intending to switch to STA once I hit the solo quests in KP however.I also tend to pull a lot with about 20% power, which is fine for a single mob but if it hits the fan I can be left with no power to help.</span></span></i></span>3)  Very specific; how do you effectively keep aggro off a well geared Bruiser?  Even with a dirge, hate transfer from a high dps assassin and moderate on the bruiser I still find them pinging aggro from me maybe once every couple of fights, this is annoying as my pride causes me to use my emergencies just to get aggro back from the bruiser on a mob that only lasts 6 seconds and I know rescue would be better used elsewhere.  How do you reliably keep aggro off a Bruiser?<b>If the mob is only going to last 6 seconds, just finish off the fight and call it a day.  Bruiser can take some hits so let him, or tell him to tone it down.  There's nothing else you can do except communicate with someone who is over dps'ing.</b><span style="color: #99ccff;"><span style="color: #99ccff;"><i><span style="color: #ffffff;">I quite enjoy being in groups where holding aggro is a challenge, it can all be a bit boring if everyone behaves themselves  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.  Was just in a group where the brigand didn't seem to care what I targetted and just randomly targetted mobs, that kept me on my toes.</span></i></span></span>Thanks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote></blockquote><span style="color: #99ccff;">Thanks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span>

[Oo]

<p>Take this with a grain of salt, as I am not sure when you are being serious or trying to be funny.  </p><p>It sounds like you like chaos.  In which case, it doesn't matter much what you do!  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Your AA setup is wrong.  There are plenty of posts on that.  Fix it up and you will hold agro better and have more str for more power.  </p><p>If you play with knuckleheads and like it, then don't be frustrated that you can't take agro back from people who aren't playing as a team.</p><p>If you pull with 20% power regularly in multi-mob situations, you might run out of power.  </p><p>If you barrel along corridors and hope your healers will catch up, you are likely going to die a lot.</p><p>If you play in lots of PuGs like this, you will quickly be known as a tank people may not want to play with (except that bruiser and brigand you mentioned).  </p><p>Good luck.  </p>

[steelbadger]

<cite>Doopsy@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Take this with a grain of salt, as I am not sure when you are being serious or trying to be funny.  </p><p>It sounds like you like chaos.  In which case, it doesn't matter much what you do!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Your AA setup is wrong.  There are plenty of posts on that.  Fix it up and you will hold agro better and have more str for more power.  </p><p>If you play with knuckleheads and like it, then don't be frustrated that you can't take agro back from people who aren't playing as a team.</p><p>If you pull with 20% power regularly in multi-mob situations, you might run out of power.  </p><p>If you barrel along corridors and hope your healers will catch up, you are likely going to die a lot.</p><p>If you play in lots of PuGs like this, you will quickly be known as a tank people may not want to play with (except that bruiser and brigand you mentioned).  </p><p>Good luck.  </p></blockquote>Maybe I should clear something up.Yes, I really do play my guard as I described, a whirlwind of multi-mob arrow pulls and trained corridors.  But it is by no means a disasterous endeavor.  It is a bad night when I wipe once due to a failed pull, and I have lost one group member to due to losing aggro in the past week.  I don't play with nuckleheads, almost all of the players I have grouped with recently have gone down in my good books, including the bruiser and brigand.  I have played with a multitude of healers and all are complementary of my tanking, though one did say that keeping up does give them a headache <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.  I am a good tank (or so say the people with whom I group) and possibly I have over-emphasised the speed whith which I do tank, like I said earlier I am not suicidal and am usually pretty situationally aware.  My multi-mob pulls are carefully calculated, I know KoS zones like the back on my own hand and know what mobs are social with what and what each mobs aggro range is.  It may seem like chaos when I give the description, but there is order in my madness.All I wanted was to hear people's little tricks that give them that little extra edge in a fight.  I can read up on the basics of tanking and pulling and have picked up most of it while grouped with raid tank friends on my main but there is no substitute for experience and I'm sure older guards than me have little tips and tricks that really don't achieve a great amount but can be useful in certain situations.I accept the comments on my AA spec however; if I want better aggro control I will have to spec out of my full avoidance spec.However I don't have a good buckler that I can switch to, can anyone remember a good instance gotten buckler from their T7 days that would allow me to switch to buckler without losing too much in survivability?

[Rahatmattata]

If my group gets a bunch of adds and no chanter is present, the easiest thing to do is aoe. BTW, I'm str/sta/int and 4-1 in agi. I will try to hit the adds with an aoe before they get to the other group members. As soon as the mobs start hitting you hold the aggression starts proccessing. However, if the adds were pulled by a warlock using rift for example, several unlinked encounters add; some the warlock rifted, some social linked... reinforcement and all aoe's are down... shadowknight in group starts going nuts, mobs all dotted up, no chance of mezzes or roots... that's when you just have to do what you can. For starters, if the mobs hit significantly to my group and someone might die, I'll throw down sentry watch. I target a mob, get hate and then switch to the next mob. Sometimes it might take a couple seconds to get hate on a target... stuff refreshes kinda quick so, I basically just try to keep my group alive with sent sphere, intercede, until something refreshes.Also, when you have mobs pinging around like that, freshly added they will have little to no debuffs on them and will be hitting for full strength. If you have group wards up, a mob plinking your mage is going to destroy that ward, group reactives are going to get spread out all over the group and as you begin to pick up the mobs you are going to be taking on more and more damage with each mob, while you don't have the full support of your healers as their abilities are being spread out over the entire group... druids are pretty good aoe healers at least. So, be ready to throw something down to stop damage spiking. If nothing is up... and you don't see you aren't sure if your priests used a save death, pop unyielding will and just... try not to die and try not to let others die. Don't worry about dps assisting you.. they should be experienced enough to pick a mob and kill it. Just target mob, peel it off your squishy, target next mob, stay alive, keep your healers and key buffers (dirges) alive.A big thing about tanking to me is to always have something up. Immobilize/plant/anchor is powerful, not only because it roots the mobs so they can't swat your mages and priests, but it has a nice offensive debuff attatched to it. It also will proc reinforcement as best as I can tell...so with 2 pbaoe, immoblize, and assault... thats 3 aoe and an encounter taunt that procs reinforcement. Also, I'm a huge fan of int, but if you like to mass pull, I'd seriously consider str/agi/sta and 4-1 int. I have that setup in my AA mirror. So, spread your temp buffs out. Don't stack a bunch of temp stuff if you don't need to. Use them for sure, but kinda get a rotation for them so you always have a block or tos or sent sphere or soemthing. Int line helps with that. Use all your combat arts for sure, but when they are down... reinforcement is pretty quick on the refresh with 140 AA... for me rescue is rarely needed, but is awesome to save someone's life. So, it's usually up. If I have to use it, in all likelyhood it will refesh before I need to use it again.Guardians have a pretty small power pool especially in dstance, so power can be an issue. Usually if you are oop it is either because you are constantly in combat; constantly pulling as soon as a mob is down, you pull the next one. You never get any out of combat power ticks. It could also be you don't have enough group dps. Nothing sucks more when you get a bunch of adds and you don't have any power to do anything. Yay channel. You can spread out the use of your CAs a bit to conserve power. You can try to get away without taunting. Basically, slightly less spammage can save you a considerable bit of power.For aggro, since you can only have 50 AA in KoS tree at your level, I'd probably try agi/sta or sta/int. Keeping aggro off other fighters is challenging because they don't have deaggros or hate reducers like scouts/mages/priests. Except brawlers I believe have a small hate reduct. You pretty much just have to be able to keep up with them. You need to do enough dps and build enough threat with taunts when CAs are down. The other fighter shouldn't be taunting or using +threat abilities/gear if they can help it if you are struggling with aggro. They are tanks as well, so just let them take the hits when they rip. Be a sport and intercede if they are about to die. If the healers complain either let the other fighter tank or just tell them you're doing the best you can. I made a <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=414118" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">thread</a> about grouping with other fighters a few months ago.

[Enoe]

Imo u like to pull rooms u should be zerker <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I do chain pull but only single encounters. Faster and safer. U kill encounter in few sec and go to an other, or u spend 1 min constantly hiting CA's while u fight  the room. So Chain pull single encounters will save ur power too. In heroic instances dps>hps so try to build ur grp for max dps/debuff setup. Imo guardian doesnt need to prove that he can whitstand dmg by tanking whole room at once. In heroic instances guardian should go max dps setup to increase grp output of dps= very often it will decrease your defense. I tank Re2 in suicidal mode (offstance, dualwield, all offensive jevelery and Jewel of Animosity)  with one healer but with good grp u can do it safe and below 30 min. Try to pull rooms there and u r ... dead <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Just my 2 cents i know every tank has his own idea of tanking - bt what i know im just [not so good] swashy in plate <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Oo]

<cite>steelbadger wrote:</cite><blockquote>I accept the comments on my AA spec however; if I want better aggro control I will have to spec out of my full avoidance spec.However I don't have a good buckler that I can switch to, can anyone remember a good instance gotten buckler from their T7 days that would allow me to switch to buckler without losing too much in survivability?</blockquote><a href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/-681646465" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Festering Flesh Buckler</a> from Unrest or <a href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=26613" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Badge of Service </a>from Castle Mistmoore will get you to lvl 80. 

[steelbadger]

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>If my group gets a bunch of adds and no chanter is present, the easiest thing to do is aoe. BTW, I'm str/sta/int and 4-1 in agi. I will try to hit the adds with an aoe before they get to the other group members. As soon as the mobs start hitting you hold the aggression starts proccessing. However, if the adds were pulled by a warlock using rift for example, several unlinked encounters add; some the warlock rifted, some social linked... reinforcement and all aoe's are down... shadowknight in group starts going nuts, mobs all dotted up, no chance of mezzes or roots... that's when you just have to do what you can. For starters, if the mobs hit significantly to my group and someone might die, I'll throw down sentry watch. I target a mob, get hate and then switch to the next mob. Sometimes it might take a couple seconds to get hate on a target... stuff refreshes kinda quick so, I basically just try to keep my group alive with sent sphere, intercede, until something refreshes.Also, when you have mobs pinging around like that, freshly added they will have little to no debuffs on them and will be hitting for full strength. If you have group wards up, a mob plinking your mage is going to destroy that ward, group reactives are going to get spread out all over the group and as you begin to pick up the mobs you are going to be taking on more and more damage with each mob, while you don't have the full support of your healers as their abilities are being spread out over the entire group... druids are pretty good aoe healers at least. So, be ready to throw something down to stop damage spiking. If nothing is up... and you don't see you aren't sure if your priests used a save death, pop unyielding will and just... try not to die and try not to let others die. Don't worry about dps assisting you.. they should be experienced enough to pick a mob and kill it. Just target mob, peel it off your squishy, target next mob, stay alive, keep your healers and key buffers (dirges) alive.A big thing about tanking to me is to always have something up. Immobilize/plant/anchor is powerful, not only because it roots the mobs so they can't swat your mages and priests, but it has a nice offensive debuff attatched to it. It also will proc reinforcement as best as I can tell...so with 2 pbaoe, immoblize, and assault... thats 3 aoe and an encounter taunt that procs reinforcement. Also, I'm a huge fan of int, but if you like to mass pull, I'd seriously consider str/agi/sta and 4-1 int. I have that setup in my AA mirror. So, spread your temp buffs out. Don't stack a bunch of temp stuff if you don't need to. Use them for sure, but kinda get a rotation for them so you always have a block or tos or sent sphere or soemthing. Int line helps with that. Use all your combat arts for sure, but when they are down... reinforcement is pretty quick on the refresh with 140 AA... for me rescue is rarely needed, but is awesome to save someone's life. So, it's usually up. If I have to use it, in all likelyhood it will refesh before I need to use it again.<span style="color: #ff99cc;">When you have the dps targetting through you, you lose aggro and have nothing of consequence up would you target a different mob from the one you need to get back, then quickly switch to the problem mob, hit enough stuff to get it back as quickly as possible then carry on about your business? (I ask this because it seems that targetting a mob that you've lost when you are pretty much powerless just gives you more work to do as the dps racks up the hate?).</span>  <span style="color: #ff99cc;">I usually have an annoying combination of some people targetting through me, some assisting me and some just doing whatever.  Reckon that telling everyone to /assist you (not lazy target) and setting up your own /assist macro so that you can re-find the mob you where origionally targetting easier is the way to go?</span>Guardians have a pretty small power pool especially in dstance, so power can be an issue. Usually if you are oop it is either because you are constantly in combat; constantly pulling as soon as a mob is down, you pull the next one. You never get any out of combat power ticks. It could also be you don't have enough group dps. Nothing sucks more when you get a bunch of adds and you don't have any power to do anything. Yay channel. You can spread out the use of your CAs a bit to conserve power. You can try to get away without taunting. Basically, slightly less spammage can save you a considerable bit of power.<span style="color: #ff99cc;">Yeah, part of my problem is my bow; I use Longarm for pulling (55m range), only when sane to do so, but this means that I am not getting the OOC regen in the time I'm running towards the mob as I've already hit him with an arrow to get him into the fight faster.  When I hit tougher/more tightly packed zones my power problems are greatly reduced simply because the extra few seconds it takes to run up to a mob to body pull allow for a tick or two more power.</span>For aggro, since you can only have 50 AA in KoS tree at your level, I'd probably try agi/sta or sta/int. Keeping aggro off other fighters is challenging because they don't have deaggros or hate reducers like scouts/mages/priests. Except brawlers I believe have a small hate reduct. You pretty much just have to be able to keep up with them. You need to do enough dps and build enough threat with taunts when CAs are down. The other fighter shouldn't be taunting or using +threat abilities/gear if they can help it if you are struggling with aggro. They are tanks as well, so just let them take the hits when they rip. Be a sport and intercede if they are about to die. If the healers complain either let the other fighter tank or just tell them you're doing the best you can. I made a <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=414118" target="_blank">thread</a> about grouping with other fighters a few months ago.<span style="color: #ff99cc;">I respecced my AA's to: STR 4 4 5; AGI 4 1; STA 4 4 8 8 2; INT 4 1. That way I can keep acceleration strike and dragoon's spin while also getting executioner's strike and some crits. When I get more AA's I'll max out the crits first then probably work back up to pick up the parry boost?</span></blockquote><cite>Doopsy@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>steelbadger wrote:</cite><blockquote>I accept the comments on my AA spec however; if I want better aggro control I will have to spec out of my full avoidance spec.However I don't have a good buckler that I can switch to, can anyone remember a good instance gotten buckler from their T7 days that would allow me to switch to buckler without losing too much in survivability?</blockquote><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/-681646465" target="_blank">Festering Flesh Buckler</a> from Unrest or <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?eq2item=26613" target="_blank">Badge of Service </a>from Castle Mistmoore will get you to lvl 80.  </blockquote>Those are really nice (certainly compared to my current <a href="http://www.lootdb.com/eq2/item/211592999" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Lockless Buckler</a>), Thanks.  I can probably pick up the badge from the broker and will be hitting Unrest as soon as I hit 70 for the FFB. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Oo]

Your power will be much improved with your respec (more str and endline STA ability).  Don't switch off of a target you are trying to get agro on waiting for CAs.  Your dps will come significantly from your autoattack, especially as you max crits and now that you have increased doubleattack.  That's the benefit of the STA line, your hate comes significantly from your dps which comes significantly from your autoattack.  You now need to work on timing autoattacks to greatly increase your dps.  Good luck. 

[Rahatmattata]

<cite>steelbadger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><span style="color: #ff99cc;">When you have the dps targetting through you, you lose aggro and have nothing of consequence up would you target a different mob from the one you need to get back, then quickly switch to the problem mob, hit enough stuff to get it back as quickly as possible then carry on about your business? (I ask this because it seems that targetting a mob that you've lost when you are pretty much powerless just gives you more work to do as the dps racks up the hate?).</span> <span style="color: #ff99cc;">I usually have an annoying combination of some people targetting through me, some assisting me and some just doing whatever. Reckon that telling everyone to /assist you (not lazy target) and setting up your own /assist macro so that you can re-find the mob you where origionally targetting easier is the way to go?</span></blockquote>There's a few variables. First, I try not to run myself dry of power... but it happens. Generally, if a mob rips off me I will target it and get it back. I leave the dps responsible for themselves; it's not my job to be the main assist, it's my job to hold aggro and live. But there are times when it isn't worth it or practical. If I'm oop with almost no abilities to use and a mob rips off me do I try and pick it up or no? It just depends. Who did the mob rip to? It might effect my decision if it runs to a priest, wizard, coercer, swashbuckler, or ranger. Does the mob hit hard? If it's a green down arrow that ripped to a ranger 20 meters away, who cares? If it's a yellow ^^^ that got on a fury, I'm going to immediately do whatever I can to preferably get aggro, or worst case not let the fury die. You can also prioritize who you use specials for. For example, if an assassin in your group dies, you lose dps. If your healer dies, that's pretty obvious not good. If your dirge dies, you lose stoneskins and parry and a ton of other buffs that may be doing a lot to keep you alive. If your enchanter dies, you lose buffs and crowd control.On the other hand, if you're oop and just whacking on the mob trying to get it off the fury, you could be breaking mezzes or roots... so I try to keep my particle effects up a little so I can see what people are casting. If I see someone trying to CC something, I'll generally leave it alone unless it becomes virtual life threatening. All that said though... normally if I'm oop and all abilities are down and a mob rips, and it could kill someone, I'll target it and try to get it back. My reasoning is even if the dps are targetting through me and dpsing my new target that ripped, I'd rather them be killing the mob that is pinging around than just letting it sit on someone taking free pot shots while the dps is focused on mobs I already have controlled.The key is to always try and have something up. If you're oop and can do absolutely nothing and people are dying... as a last ditch /yell disengage, get a tick of mana so you can do something.

[DevilWerks]

<p>For multi group pulls, here's what I've found that works well for me: (communication is the key)</p><p>I put all the healers on me and all the dps on a MA. I let the dps know they are not to attack until told. Once I have the mobs position and have fired my aoe's, I bring in the dps. It also helps if the dps follows this order; debuff, dot, dd, aoe's, rinse and repeat. This allows me to concentrate on agro management while the dps burns down the mobs. It's also easier on the healers. I conserve power by only using my taunts and hit's that have a taunt with them as well as my aoe's when they are up again. I time my big hits according to the group makeup and lay off the dots. This leaves me plenty of power to get thru all the encounters since I'm not concerned about doing any dps, just holding the agro.</p><p>Doing it this way, when I do lose a mobs agro I still have reinforcement, rescue and all the intercept CA's ready.</p>

[Vlahkmaak]

If you like to chain pull, and don't wipe the group in the process, then iinsist people make /assist keys.  The primary reason for this is you can request peole /assist on mob 1 (not target through you, also known as layz assist, but using the macro) this way you can tag mob2 w/o worring about anyone in your group hitting the mobs you are pre selecting for the next pull with the big hit they were pplanning on using on the mob they should be killing (mob1).