Possible to raid as dps with bruiser

[Panzeriv]

<p>Hi everyone i recently left wow to come over and play eq2 with friends who have been playing and told me i should check it out, so far im liking the feel of the game but was having trouble picking a class.  When i was in wow i played a swords rogue and was in a end game raiding guild.  My question is it possible to raid with a bruiser for dps?  I like the feel of how bruiser was when i tried it out kinda reminded me of my favorite class of tka when i played swg back in the day.  I have been leveling an assassin but am not really feeling it and i eventually want to get into raiding, i know it wont be for awhile but i dont wanna roll a class i cant raid with if thats the case and i would prefer to dps as i have heard kinda that buisers are used as off tanks and while that isnt out of the question i would just prefer to dps. </p><p> Any help would be greatly appretiated into this, and thank you in advance.</p>

[Novusod]

I would say you are playing the wrong class if you want to raid. It is not impossible but it is highly not recommended to try for a raid slot on a bruiser.

[Aull]

<p>Unless you have friends in a high end raiding guild that love you so much that it doesn't matter what you roll then yes you will have better luck getting in as a raiding bruiser. I would say roll a different class like a brigand, swashbuckler, or some other class that can dps yet offer strong group and raid support. Illusionist and coercers can dps and offer wonderful buffs to others that make them a welcome addition to any raid.</p><p>If a bruiser was placed in the correct melee buffing group then yes they can do decent damage but on the other hand if you placed any scout in that same group the dps would be astronomically higher than what the bruiser is capable of.</p><p>There are bruisers that are in these highend raid guilds but I would assume that they have been there since the beginning. Anyways bruisers do not really offer anything to a group/raid that another class cannot do much better.</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p>I will say that you absolutely CAN be DPS in a raiding guild, but not necessarily an end-game raiding guild.  if you find one of those casual to medium-core raiding guilds, and prove that you can play bruiser well, I'm sure you would have no problem getting on their roster and tearing up the DPS parse.  </p><p>  It is far more difficult getting into an end-game hardcore raiding guild as a bruiser.  Many top guilds atm do not even have a bruiser on the roster, as out of the 6 fighter classes, many raids only run with 2-3 fighters tops.   My guild is an end-game raiding guild but I'm one of those exceptions who has been here from the beginning, so thats really the only reason i'm in a raid guild.  </p><p>   It's possible and if you can make it you'll have a blast.  A top geared bruiser in a god group, in current game mechanics can rival anyone elses dps.  </p>

[evilgamer]

<cite>Panzeriv wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hi everyone i recently left wow to come over and play eq2 with friends who have been playing and told me i should check it out, so far im liking the feel of the game but was having trouble picking a class.  When i was in wow i played a swords rogue and was in a end game raiding guild.  My question is it possible to raid with a bruiser for dps?  I like the feel of how bruiser was when i tried it out kinda reminded me of my favorite class of tka when i played swg back in the day.  I have been leveling an assassin but am not really feeling it and i eventually want to get into raiding, i know it wont be for awhile but i dont wanna roll a class i cant raid with if thats the case and i would prefer to dps as i have heard kinda that buisers are used as off tanks and while that isnt out of the question i would just prefer to dps. </p><p> Any help would be greatly appretiated into this, and thank you in advance.</p></blockquote><p>Do not roll a bruiser if your primary goal is to raid.  Technically bruisers are a tanking class (the reason the taunt spell was on your hotbar at level 1) that does some decent dps.</p><p>But all the "pure" dps classes will out dps you, given equal gear/skill/etc.</p><p>Bruisers are screwed in reguards to raids because we dont tank well enough or dps well enough to take one of those slots a pure tank or dps class</p><p>And we have crappy utility.</p><p>Bruisers are in a sad state at the moment in reguards to raids and raid desirability.</p>

[Panzeriv]

Thanks for all the unput everyone i think i may try a bruiser but i also plan on taking turns leveling up a more raid friendly class as another option for a char just incase i dont have luck getting it with the bruiser.  On a side note Crabbok when you raid with your bruiser with your guild what type of slot do you usually fill dps or tank?

[Aull]

<p>I am not trying to sound so negative about bruisers so take most of my posts with a grain of salt please. However a bruiser is very fun for everyday norrath tanking and questing. Bruisers are not broken but just lack grouping and raiding luster. Crabbok is also a wealth of information so listen or read closely to all the info he posts.</p><p>I on the other hand have alot of experience in nothing. So if you ever need a crash course on nothing then I am the one to speak with cause I have a whole lot of nothing to offer!</p><p>=)</p><p>Thanks.</p>

[evilgamer]

<cite>Aull wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I am not trying to sound so negative about bruisers so take most of my posts with a grain of salt please. However a bruiser is very fun for everyday norrath tanking and questing. Bruisers are not broken but just lack grouping and raiding luster. Crabbok is also a wealth of information so listen or read closely to all the info he posts.</p><p>I on the other hand have alot of experience in nothing. So if you ever need a crash course on nothing then I am the one to speak with cause I have a whole lot of nothing to offer!</p><p>=)</p><p>Thanks.</p></blockquote><p>If anything you are to optimistic Aull.</p><p>You are correct, we do "OK" in heroic and solo stuff, but we do not have a predefined raid role and our class has become marginalized because of it.</p><p>Tell me?  What exactly is the role of bruisers on raids?</p><p>Tanking.  Lol, that is a joke</p><p>DPS.  Our DPS sucks compared to real DPS classes</p><p>Utility:  What utility?  Our crap raid buff nobody cares about lol?</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<cite>Panzeriv wrote:</cite><blockquote>On a side note Crabbok when you raid with your bruiser with your guild what type of slot do you usually fill dps or tank?</blockquote>I am almost always in a pure DPS role.  I am certainly Capable of tanking and have tanked alot of raid content thus far.  The reason I'm usually not in a tank role is because we have a guardian and a Paladin also, and in terms of DPS i'm pretty much a beast.   I think i'm gonna rename my class to Bruissassin, as I'm usually always right up there with our assasin. 

[Arathy]

Crabbok isn't the only bruiser who beasts parses.  I too parse way up there right behind the assassin, consistantly beating out most of our casters and scouts.  Just make smart gear choices and practice your CA orders.  And for god sakes, remember to time your combat arts so you aren't missing too many auto attack chances.

[evilgamer]

<cite>Arathyen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Crabbok isn't the only bruiser who beasts parses.  I too parse way up there right behind the assassin, consistantly beating out most of our casters and scouts.  Just make smart gear choices and practice your CA orders.  And for god sakes, remember to time your combat arts so you aren't missing too many auto attack chances.</blockquote><p>Are you guys talking about parses on a single mob or on a zone wide?</p><p>On raids I generally parse zonewide where I should, right behind the rouges and ahead of the bards and other tanks, assuming I had a good run and didnt die to much.</p><p>I can spike damage occasionally and end up at the top or close to it depending on who I am raiding with.</p><p>But to me the zonewide is the only parse the really matters, maybee the named to.</p>

[Arathy]

I'm referring to zone wides.  I'm assuming that Crabbok is as well.

[Ibox]

you can raid with a bruiser and you donot have to have friends in high places. you just have to be a good player and pay attition. i joined a raiding guild a year ago with my bruiser. a guild that already had a bruiser that raided all the time. i am at 97 percent of all raids and i am in 90 percent of those raids and wanted in those raids. as far as dps i am in the top 4 or 5 all the time depending on group make ups i can even be top dps raid wide. we did a pr run last night building up cash for the guild halls and i was zone wide top dps at 5700 for the zone. i am not the best geared bruiser either we have cleared vp but right now i only have two set pieces i have my mythical and the hand wraps from vp for weapons.

[Junaru]

Roll with your Bruiser. If you feel you can't get into raids you could always betray to Monk. I personally like Bruisers on the raids. I go through CA's so fast the raid wide buff they have helps me a ton. Sadly it helps Monks more then other classes thus making is not as desired as other buffs.

[Quicksilver74]

Yes I'm referring to zonewides.  If I was talking single mobs I'd talk about the 10-11K parses I get when all temps are up and all the planets are alligned. 

[Panzeriv]

Well i decided to roll a bruiser then after reading everyones feed back here and looking over the forums and i can say im having a blast with it alot more fun to play imo than the previous assassin i was trying already leveled from 1-19 in a day which is way faster than i was doing witht he assassin cant wait till higher levels.

[evilgamer]

<cite>Panzeriv wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well i decided to roll a bruiser then after reading everyones feed back here and looking over the forums and i can say im having a blast with it alot more fun to play imo than the previous assassin i was trying already leveled from 1-19 in a day which is way faster than i was doing witht he assassin cant wait till higher levels.</blockquote><p>bruisers are very powerful at those levels</p><p>post 50 is when the other classes will start to catch up and surpass you</p>

[evilgamer]

<cite>Junaru wrote:</cite><blockquote>Roll with your Bruiser. If you feel you can't get into raids you could always betray to Monk. I personally like Bruisers on the raids. I go through CA's so fast the raid wide buff they have helps me a ton. Sadly it helps Monks more then other classes thus making is not as desired as other buffs.</blockquote>Not sure I understand how the bruiser raid wide helps monks so much

[Junaru]

<cite>evilgamer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Junaru wrote:</cite><blockquote>Roll with your Bruiser. If you feel you can't get into raids you could always betray to Monk. I personally like Bruisers on the raids. I go through CA's so fast the raid wide buff they have helps me a ton. Sadly it helps Monks more then other classes thus making is not as desired as other buffs.</blockquote>Not sure I understand how the bruiser raid wide helps monks so much</blockquote>It give +xx to combat arts correct? How many combat arts does the average class cast on a raid mob? Now how many do you think a Monk does. On trash mobs I can eat up a whole hotbar, wait for it to refresh and eat it up again. If it did a percent then it would equal out but since it's a straight amount it benefits the classes that use the most CA's. That class is a Monk.So if you cast CA_1 and Bruising Cry adds +90 damage and does 3,000damage your recast is what 1min?I cast Ca_1 and Bruising Cry adds +90 damage and does 1,500damage and recast of 30s.So in 1mins time we both did 3,000damage from CA's (which is the Monk/Bruiser balance) but I did +180 from Bruising Cry and you only did +90. So as a Monk I gain more from your buff then you do.

[evilgamer]

<cite>Junaru wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>evilgamer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Junaru wrote:</cite><blockquote>Roll with your Bruiser. If you feel you can't get into raids you could always betray to Monk. I personally like Bruisers on the raids. I go through CA's so fast the raid wide buff they have helps me a ton. Sadly it helps Monks more then other classes thus making is not as desired as other buffs.</blockquote>Not sure I understand how the bruiser raid wide helps monks so much</blockquote>It give +xx to combat arts correct? How many combat arts does the average class cast on a raid mob? Now how many do you think a Monk does. On trash mobs I can eat up a whole hotbar, wait for it to refresh and eat it up again. If it did a percent then it would equal out but since it's a straight amount it benefits the classes that use the most CA's. That class is a Monk.So if you cast CA_1 and Bruising Cry adds +90 damage and does 3,000damage your recast is what 1min?I cast Ca_1 and Bruising Cry adds +90 damage and does 1,500damage and recast of 30s.So in 1mins time we both did 3,000damage from CA's (which is the Monk/Bruiser balance) but I did +180 from Bruising Cry and you only did +90. So as a Monk I gain more from your buff then you do.</blockquote><p>Yeah the problems is though, is that fast recast CA, do not hit as hard and +CA damage caps at half the base amount.</p><p>My 10 sec recast CA and have been capped for so long I dont even bother with CA damage gear anymore TBH.</p><p>But you are correct this benefits classes with faster recast.</p>

[Junaru]

<cite>evilgamer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Junaru wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>evilgamer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Junaru wrote:</cite><blockquote>Roll with your Bruiser. If you feel you can't get into raids you could always betray to Monk. I personally like Bruisers on the raids. I go through CA's so fast the raid wide buff they have helps me a ton. Sadly it helps Monks more then other classes thus making is not as desired as other buffs.</blockquote>Not sure I understand how the bruiser raid wide helps monks so much</blockquote>It give +xx to combat arts correct? How many combat arts does the average class cast on a raid mob? Now how many do you think a Monk does. On trash mobs I can eat up a whole hotbar, wait for it to refresh and eat it up again. If it did a percent then it would equal out but since it's a straight amount it benefits the classes that use the most CA's. That class is a Monk.So if you cast CA_1 and Bruising Cry adds +90 damage and does 3,000damage your recast is what 1min?I cast Ca_1 and Bruising Cry adds +90 damage and does 1,500damage and recast of 30s.So in 1mins time we both did 3,000damage from CA's (which is the Monk/Bruiser balance) but I did +180 from Bruising Cry and you only did +90. So as a Monk I gain more from your buff then you do.</blockquote><p>Yeah the problems is though, is that fast recast CA, do not hit as hard and +CA damage caps at half the base amount.</p><p>My 10 sec recast CA and have been capped for so long I dont even bother with CA damage gear anymore TBH.</p><p>But you are correct this benefits classes with faster recast.</p></blockquote>My understanding of the Bruiser raid buff is it does not count the same as self +CA damage. In other words it's a straight + to CA's regardless.And I sit at +420 CA damage. This only caps my 2 fast recast CA's I still have room to grow if needed.

[Shido]

whats ur group make up for hittin a 10k parse?  That in VP?

[Quicksilver74]

<p>Bruising cry is pretty much crap the way it is now.  Combat art damage is so commonly found on so many items now,  that I can actually turn off my raidwide buff and see no difference at all on about half of my CA's.  I would magine monks are in a very similar situation.  </p><p>  Also as far as 10k Parses no I wasn't referring to VP, I was referring to Shard of Hate and some trash mobs from T1/2 raid zones.  The only named I've parsed 10K on was Doomcoil.</p><p>To do that, typically I'd have a dirge, illusionist, Troubador, Mystic, and either assasin or a sorc, or even a conj.  </p>

[Dorieon]

<cite>Crabbok@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Bruising cry is pretty much crap the way it is now.  Combat art damage is so commonly found on so many items now,  that I can actually turn off my raidwide buff and see no difference at all on about half of my CA's.  I would magine monks are in a very similar situation.  </p></blockquote>I'll attest to that. I have tested turning off my raidwide buff and I really see little to no difference in the raid's dps. My healers do notice the difference however.

[Novusod]

Don't under estimate the usefullness of our buff to taunts and detaunts. On the rare times I am asked to sit out a raid there is a noticable difference in agro controll with Assassins, Brigs, Wizards, and Warlocks stripping agro from the tank.