Hate

[Yumena]

<p>Are guardians still the kings of hate/agro</p><p> I have always had no trouble holding multi mob encounters agro until the other night. I went into living tombs at 53 with 1 healer and 4 dps, 1 wizard especially.</p><p>While in there I dinged 54 and took the AOE taunt as my master. I also had Master  in Taunting assault and adept 3 I think in the single mob taunt Deafen.</p><p> I did not have Unforgiving strike or Reinforcement at that point. I do now.</p><p>My problem was I kept losing agro - I was trying all sorts of combo's including Tremor and my aa AOE ability along with the two master aoe taunts and I kept losing agro largely to the Wizard.(Who I put the hate reducing buff on)</p><p>So first question is should this set up manage to hold AOE agro no trouble ??</p><p>Second point and this is where I may really need advice is .........  when fighting an encounter I usually keep a mob targetted until it dies and then move on to the next auto target by which ever mob hits me next. What I was finding was that I was not being hit again after the first mob as all the others were off agroing someone else.</p><p>I feel that the wizard was probably not assisting?</p><p> But I am also wondering should I be targeting the next mob before the first dies ?</p><p> and should I be yelling at the rest of the group to Assist me ?? (or is that the healers job)</p><p>(only a couple of deaths and they were when the wizard did not get rescued either cos I was waiting on refresh or because I was getting fed up of blowing it on the same person) (also is that really wrong ??)</p><p> Cheers</p>

[vinere]

There is really no reason everyone in the group isnt assisting the tank at all times except maybe a Mez'r.  The problem you mostlikly had is the wizzard was chaining AE damage spells, and doing it early on in the fight.  Alot of your aggro on adds in a fight will come from you reactive hate proc (buff that procs aggro a % of the time you get hit), and thus if aggro is pulled off you early in a fight, you aggro is [Removed for Content] the whole fight.  Some casters are good at managing when to shoot off the ae hate spells, and some are totally horrid.  I generally let them die a time or 2, and they wise up about it.  They really arnt saving the group any time, since to hold aggro off them you will be required to burn a ton of power, and thus you will end up with downtime letting power regen, expecially if you dont have a bard/ench in the group for power regen. 

[Yumena]

<p>Thanks that was what i was largely thinking just not the confidence to shout about it yet.</p><p>I even took off and reapplied  the reactive hate buff cos I was wondering if it was working OK - lol I forgot about that bit. </p>

[Wilin]

You won't hold AE aggro without reinforcement. So, that was the biggest issue. You pop reinforcement and one or both your AEs and you should have it covered for heroics.

[Yimway]

Meh, don't agree with posters so far.Your problem was you were not switching targets with an aoe dps group.  You should be switching off your first target BY 50% health.  Staying on this target is just making your group take longer to kill the encounter.  Switching off at 50% you have enough hate to hold it till it dies, and it will go down to aoe's fired will killingt he next one.Keep switching each time, and you'll find when the last mob falls, generally several will die at the same time.  Start with 50%, if you've got a good aoe dps group this is the target.  If your switching and killing the last one and another is still standing, lower the % to 40, maybe 30 at the tops.Train yourself to always switch on multible mob encounters, not doing so is the sign of a noob tank.

[rabid.pooh]

<p>I think the pallies are the kings of agro via easy mode <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  Guards IMO have the weakest AE multi mob/encounter abilities for hate out of all the plate tanks.</p><p> I totally agree with Atan, you need to switch your targets when tanking multi mob groups/encounters.  Usually on pull I will taunt a mob and instantly switch to another, throw out a big hitter, then two aoe's, then switch drop a big hitter on a new mob, as they get lower in health bounce around.</p><p>Remember also to always spin the mobs (not saying you don't but if I had a nickle for everygroup I've been in when the tank doesn't spin it...).  When you spin the mobs it's easy to see when a mob gets away from you, not to mention all the other benefits to the group.</p>

[Oo]

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Meh, don't agree with posters so far.Your problem was you were not switching targets with an aoe dps group.  You should be switching off your first target BY 50% health.  Staying on this target is just making your group take longer to kill the encounter.  Switching off at 50% you have enough hate to hold it till it dies, and it will go down to aoe's fired will killingt he next one.Keep switching each time, and you'll find when the last mob falls, generally several will die at the same time.  Start with 50%, if you've got a good aoe dps group this is the target.  If your switching and killing the last one and another is still standing, lower the % to 40, maybe 30 at the tops.Train yourself to always switch on multible mob encounters, not doing so is the sign of a noob tank.</blockquote><p>I guess I'm a noob tank.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I don't use this technique, and maybe that's why I am not seeing its benefit.  It seems very group dependant.  If you tank an encounter to guarantee that all mobs die at the same time, you are also insuring that you will have the total number of mobs beating on you the entire time, or even worse peeling off (I know, you're a noob tank if you can't hold agro on every mob, but sometimes it happens if you groupies aren't behaving).  This seems to add pressure to your healers.  I have also had Templars tell me that they do their maximum healing if I kill off mobs as fast as possible, because they proc heals off the death of mobs.  </p><p>Also, this teqnique seems to depend on a group that is putting out a good deal of AOE dps.  As guardians, those groups cause us the biggest problems, because we aren't the best multi-mob tanks, and require a lot of extra work to keep agro on multiple mobs.  By working it so that all mobs stay up the entire fight, you are asking for trouble in my opinion.</p><p>What if you have enchanters or other mezzers in your group? How are they gonna crowd control?  </p>

[Wilin]

<cite>Doopsy@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Meh, don't agree with posters so far.Your problem was you were not switching targets with an aoe dps group.  You should be switching off your first target BY 50% health.  Staying on this target is just making your group take longer to kill the encounter.  Switching off at 50% you have enough hate to hold it till it dies, and it will go down to aoe's fired will killingt he next one.Keep switching each time, and you'll find when the last mob falls, generally several will die at the same time.  Start with 50%, if you've got a good aoe dps group this is the target.  If your switching and killing the last one and another is still standing, lower the % to 40, maybe 30 at the tops.Train yourself to always switch on multible mob encounters, not doing so is the sign of a noob tank.</blockquote><p>I guess I'm a noob tank.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I don't use this technique, and maybe that's why I am not seeing its benefit.  It seems very group dependant.  If you tank an encounter to guarantee that all mobs die at the same time, you are also insuring that you will have the total number of mobs beating on you the entire time, or even worse peeling off (I know, you're a noob tank if you can't hold agro on every mob, but sometimes it happens if you groupies aren't behaving).  This seems to add pressure to your healers.  I have also had Templars tell me that they do their maximum healing if I kill off mobs as fast as possible, because they proc heals off the death of mobs.  </p><p>Also, this teqnique seems to depend on a group that is putting out a good deal of AOE dps.  As guardians, those groups cause us the biggest problems, because we aren't the best multi-mob tanks, and require a lot of extra work to keep agro on multiple mobs.  By working it so that all mobs stay up the entire fight, you are asking for trouble in my opinion.</p><p>What if you have enchanters or other mezzers in your group? How are they gonna crowd control?  </p></blockquote><p>It doesn't seem like you're a noob tank. It seems like Atan might be one though. You are correct Doopsy that it is group dependent. While switching off to keep aggro on all targets is necessary in some situations. It's complete crap if you either 1) Mes the adds 2) Have crap AE DPS or Both 1and2) Mes the adds because you have crap AE dps. And I was responding to the OP's posted problem which was a wizard AEing and pulling aggro. Wizard AEs are not very good so the solution I posted would solve his problem and it's the easiest.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

If you are having problems holding aoe aggro there's really only a few things you can do. Moderate the offender. Reinforcement. Switch targets. If say I'm tanking Runnyeye2 and have a warlock doing 10k dps I'll pretty much throw down a couple combat arts and switch to next target... pretty much what Atan was saying although I don't watch for a certain %, I pretty much just have a feel for when I need to switch targets.Of course with reinforcement and some aoes up holding aoe aggro is trivial. Also, you are using entrench/plant/immobilize or whatever it's called at your level yes? AoE root the mobs and the wizard can do 50million dps... those mobs aren't going anywhere (until immobilize expires).

[Yumena]

<p>Thanks for the responses - I seem to have split the panel heh <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Well I must admit to being more into the kill off one mob then onto the next camp as to me it feels more efficient with less healing required etc </p><p>But having said that I can see how with a good AOE group switching may be the thing to do.</p><p> I have also got re-inforcement now so looking forward to giving it a shot.</p><p>My last couple of groups have been mentor tanked - so I been doing my best DPS wise.</p><p> Once again cheers</p>

[dirtymeat80]

If your current target dies, there's an option (don't recall, hidden in the million options available lol) that'll select nearest npc when you hit auto-attack.  For instance, a wizzy nukes your current target, it dies....all you have to do is hit auto-attack and you'll select the nearest mob and start attacking.  Saves from trying to click and miss, and saves the wretched tab button from selecting a mob way out somewhere else and having someone send their pet after it and getting adds.When I first started, I did the same thing - waited for a mob to hit me to get a new target......this method is way too slow, and very unreliable.  Either click on the next one before you current target dies or tab, and also the default key for selecting nearest npc is F8.

[YummiOger]

<p>The way i would hold AE hate is thus...</p><p> Pick up agil2 AE.. only costs 5AP to get 1 rank (all u need).</p><p>Target mob1 .. Rush in .. Single Taunt, AE taunt, Decimate, Exact Strike</p><p>Swap Targets, Infuritate, Reinforcment, Agil AE, Open AE, AE w/ Hate component, Plant, Wall.. start CA rotation...</p><p>Swap to next target when current is Red.</p><p>i cant imagine anything lasting that long .. thats about a 10- 15s chain with  mucho hate built into it.</p>

[Thoral]

<p>My wife is a Warlock, and when I group with her I always switch targets.  She does so much encounter damage that I have to or by the time the first one is at 50%, the rest are on her.  There is one exception to this.  Sometimes we go on an Upheaval/Reinforcements rampage (Upheaval is the upgrade to Rift) where she tells me she's about to upheave, and I hit reinforcements and Immobilize and wait for the rocks to fall.   When the earthen rain starts, I hit my AE's, and the mobs all stay on me.  It is ridiculous fun when you are mentorred down.</p><p>Just remember that reinforcements relies on future attacks and does nothing for hate just by casting it.  You have to cast it, and then hit all your targets with an AE, so its important to have one up when you click on reinforcements.</p><p>If you are powering through a zone, I would ask an enchanter not to mezz so you can AE everything.  If you are struggling through a zone, have the enchanter mezz and use the one-at-a-time approach.</p><p>On hate casting order, I suggest using your AE taunt first because it has the longest range, and Decimate second because it never misses or gets resisted, which is important as the mob is running past you to stomp your pre-warding healer.</p>