I remember when Paladins were cool

[Vathranen]

<p>I've been meaning to make this post for a while now. I've played three Paladins so far; one on Lucan D'Lere, one on Venekor and just started one on Antonia Bayle. The first two betrayed to Shadowknight around 50 or 60. The most recent one is 37 but will be switched over to Shadowknight before 40.</p><p> Don't get me wrong here - this is a whine post. But it's a bit different than the other Paladin whine posts around here. What makes me sad about the class is not our lack of raid tanking capability (which seems to be the biggest gripe). What I don't like is how Paladins lost their "cool" factor.</p><p> (Correct me if I'm wrong here, but LU32 was the combat revamp a couple years ago right?)</p><p>See, before LU32 Paladins were the "it" class. You saw them everywhere. There was a reason - they were cool. You could cast ward on the run. You did some respectable damage and really felt like you led your group into the assault. After LU32 they gave us more healing capability and removed our damage output. Our spells became very easily interrupted. Why did our damage procs become mostly effective against undead? We aren't clerics, we're Paladins. Make it work against anything evil. Why are we a tank class with a bunch of really long cast time spells? </p><p> Sometimes I think maybe I'm not remembering things right. Sometimes I wonder if Paladins were always the way they are now and Shadowknights just got that much better. But then I look at the Paladin AA tree. What a disappointment. Talk about boring.</p><p> Does anyone else remember when we were cool or am I just remembering things a bit more golden in my older years?</p>

[Vathranen]

<p>I should be a little more specific.</p><p>Let's take a few abilities for examples.</p><p> Divine Favor. I remember when I got this ability I thought, "Hey cool a death ward like my friend has. He's a zerker with Vision of Madness and that's a cool ability." Then I read the fine print. So... I get brought back from the brink of death so that I can stumble around for a few seconds before being killed again. Awe...some?</p><p>Sigil of Heroism. This is another cool ability on its own. Helps us tank and hold or keep aggro in tight spots. But wait, doesn't the Shadowknight get something cool too? That's right, Death March. It has the same end result as Sigil of Heroism (all mobs on you, whether you like it or not) with the added effect of being immune to all the stuns you're about to receive and increased damage for the group.</p><p>Castigate and Consecrate: These two are cool abilities. I especially like Castigate - this is a perfect example of what makes a Paladin "cool". I'd just like to see more of this. My only complaint with Consecrate is the... odd... casting animation. It should be cooler, like Castigate's animation. </p><p>The group damage proc. It didn't always have that vs. undead component. I don't really get the point of this. Shouldn't a Paladin crusade just as much against a demon or an orc as he does a skeleton? The proc should be on anything evil, just like how Smite Evil works.</p><p>The AA tree. I find it very boring. The shield buff ability looks nice on paper but it doesn't "wow" me like many other classes' trees do. Smite Evil is a cool idea but the ability itself is somewhat lackluster. And why such a bent towards healing? The Paladin should be a holy warrior, not a half-hearted healer. I like the healing component, don't get me wrong, but they're way overdoing that side of the class (in my opinion, as always).</p>

[Erithorn]

<p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Paladins are still cool....</p><p>... it is you who is not!</p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Erithorn </p>

[fadelm]

<cite>Erithorn@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Paladins are still cool....</p><p>... it is you who is not!</p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>Erithorn </p></blockquote>I have to agree with this statement!

[Rast]

<p>yah, I remember when pallys were cool...  I remember it like it was yesterday...</p><p>oh wait, it was yesterday <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Sigil of Heroism is an amazing ability, it reduces the hate from your group AND it add it to your table.  This is a great tanking ability and I used to use it quite often when I was raid tanking (and i'll use it again in the future)</p><p>Divine Favor, I'll agree with you here.  This ability is horrid and I don't even bother getting it.  Absolute waste.</p><p>Castigate and Consecrate, great abilities and with the cut down on the timer for consecrate in our wrath AAs it becomes even MORE impressive.</p><p>our procs have ALWAYS been vs undead, even back at release.  Not sure what the reason was as I agree, it should be against any evil, but it would probably be over powered if it were.</p><p>and our AA tree boring?  What planet are you on?  Hero line is the best of ANY AA line for ANY class, uncontested block boost!  Not to mention smite evil is extremely impressive.  I guess if you think your role is to be an agro sink (lol) then they are boring since they add a great deal of both utility, DPS and tanking ability.  Just wait until you have both smite evil AND 68% spell crit and you watch mobs around you just drop to the floor!</p><p>One on one, we are not the strongest class, but against groups the paladin shines like no others.  If you try to pretend your pally is a guardian, then yes they are very uncool, but if you stop pretending to be what you aren't and play the PALLY with all the strengths of the class, they are a kick A.. class capable of anythign this game can throw at them.</p>

[Feydakeen]

<p>As far as I know we really were never "cool"...</p><p>Back in the days of EQ1 the laughing stock of all toons were usually Ranja and Pally...</p><p>With EQ2 that changed a bit at launch, especially cause the "fun"spell of the paladin was actually a horse, in a time where you would hardly see a mount that attracted a lot of people and paladins(and SK`s) were EVERYWHERE... Too be honest our DPS amount, survivability etc was way overpowered too and did change a lot with combat revamp, but it was a needed change to make other tank classes viable too.</p><p>We will never ever be cool anyway, being the underdog as a valiant hero can however be great too, we combine a huge amount of neat tricks to grab aggro and stay alive, and make a true difference. We`re one of the best if not THE best Offtank in the game and tbh, offtanking is usually much more fun then just being a MT standing against a wall and being pounded and healed...</p>

[Zorastiz]

<p>I have an 80 Necro, but I have a 26 Pally now and so far I am quite enjoying him some of the positive comments here make me feel more at ease with choosing a class I know little about. </p><p>He's a Troll BTW I made him and betrayed when he was a baby, so far I'm diggin it, been reading the Pally forums etc.</p><p>Don't all classes have problems? My Necro has a few but he's cool to play and I'm hoping the Pally will be long term as well.</p>

[fadelm]

<cite>Feydakeen@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Back in the days of EQ1 the laughing stock of all toons were usually Ranja and Pally...</p></blockquote><p>I was there at release, there was nothing wrong with paladins other than they were extreamly slow to level, as were all hybirds.  I agree that rangers really had it bad, but the worst of all classes in EQ1 at launch was the rogue.  You just never heard about it because no one played rogues, they were so bad...</p>

[Vathranen]

<p>You guys convinced me. I'm going to stay a Paladin. It was always my favorite class from a style standpoint, it's just that their abilities are kind of... anti-hero-like. But I only have 2 more AA points until Smite Evil and I'm about to start questing in the Feerrott, so it should be a romping good time.</p><p> Plus the fact that I was able to survive DFC at level 40 with sub-standard gear due to healing and warding along with my 34 Warden friend. I don't think any other tank could have done it.</p>

[Meirril]

<p>Considering the number of 70-80 SKs betraying to Paladin I don't think you'll regret your decision. </p><p>While SKs get a lot of sexxy dps that we can only stand back and admire, for tanking (you know, the only thing other players want from you) Paladins way out class SKs. Honestly, Sks need a revamp and bad. I don't think anybody is calling for Paladins to be nerfed. While we have amazing agro control and decent survivability we're not overpowered. Basically, we fill our role as group tanks extremely well. When it comes to raiding...its fairly obvious that developers create encounters for guardians to tank, and improve guardians to maintain the raid tanking roll to the exclusion of 5 other classes.</p><p> I can't think of any other reason why the standard raid mob is a single creature with huge amounts of initial DPS that can be stoneskinned away on the pull by guardians but not other fighters who have to rely on less dependable survival tactics. Changing mob behavior would help a lot. Changing encounters to raise the number of multi-mob encounters would help crusaders in specific. Reducing the number of mobs with huge burst damage and instead increasing their debuffing tendencies would change part of the basic dynamic that makes guardians defacto raid tanks. Its just a part though. Heck, reducing the amount of damage done by the main target and having them spawn a small number of heroic grade mobs would change the entire raid dynamic to where the raid needs to think about multiple tanks to handle add encounters. Bah. Sorry about going off topic.</p><p>Anyways, in the long run you'll find that we may not have the flash of a Shadow Knight, but we also don't get all emo about stuff either.</p>

[Renh]

<p>Well I disagree with you on several points. First of all I've been playing Pally since launch and I dont ever remember a time when there were a ton of us. That's one of the things I like. Second, I dont know what your talking about we aren't cool anymore. Please we've always been cool!!!!</p><p> To the person who said pallies were a joke just behind ranjors!?!? PLEASE!!!!!!!  My main in EQ1 was a Pally and my second toon was a ranjor. yeah my Ranjor got lots of crap, but my Pally was a stud!!! I always got asked to tank over other tanks! Not talking about raids, but talking about lvling.</p><p> I'ved alway been a Pally Stud and I always will. If pallies aren't "cool" to you, well I guess its just you who isn't cool!  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Lansalas]

<p>I agree with all others posters, Paladin is indeed a cool class. </p><p> The major problem at that time is that some Devs would like to change us into healers (remember our fabled epic proc before revamp? Have you seen the Runny fabled cloack for healers that paladins can wear too?)</p><p> PALADIN WILL NEVER BE BACK HEALERS!!!</p><p>We are tanks, good ones, probably the best Off tanks and if we want to take aggro from someone, noone can resist us more than 5 secs <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p>

[Feydakeen]

<cite>Renh wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well I disagree with you on several points. First of all I've been playing Pally since launch and I dont ever remember a time when there were a ton of us. That's one of the things I like. Second, I dont know what your talking about we aren't cool anymore. Please we've always been cool!!!!</p><p> To the person who said pallies were a joke just behind ranjors!?!? PLEASE!!!!!!!  My main in EQ1 was a Pally and my second toon was a ranjor. yeah my Ranjor got lots of crap, but my Pally was a stud!!! I always got asked to tank over other tanks! Not talking about raids, but talking about lvling.</p><p> I'ved alway been a Pally Stud and I always will. If pallies aren't "cool" to you, well I guess its just you who isn't cool!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote><p>Please read before you post. I have been a pally from EQ1 and from start of EQ2 , so I LOVE the class. Face it however most people do not think we`re cool. Period. I love my pally fervently though and i raid high-end and am a very good OT, however you should try to enter a pick-up raid with your pally, you`ll see how cool they think you are :p</p>

[Renh]

<cite>Feydakeen@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>As far as I know we really were never "cool"...</b></p><p><b>Back in the days of EQ1 the laughing stock of all toons were usually Ranja and Pally..</b></p><p><b>We will never ever be cool anyway</b>, being the underdog as a valiant hero can however be great too, we combine a huge amount of neat tricks to grab aggro and stay alive, and make a true difference. We`re one of the best if not THE best Offtank in the game and tbh, offtankin</p></blockquote>I did read before I posted. The above is what I read! you said Pallies were the "laughing stock". I dissagree! I almost always tanked my pally while leveling up and I had a blast doing it.  I thought my Dorf Pally was very cool! Whether you love your pally or not you dont think he/she is cool. Well I disagree! I think my pally is very cool!

[Vathranen]

<p>I found another frustrating bit today.</p><p>Why does our Blood Iron Plate armor get shared with Inquisitors and Templars and have WIS as one of two stats? Further, Inquisitors have the option of using the Shadowknight Blood Iron for INT instead.</p><p>I understand WIS increases our power pool and magic resists. But I'd much rather focus on STR and INT to make monsters die faster so I don't need the big power pool. I guess the thing is that I like the class's theme I just get annoyed about being pigeon-holed into a second rate priest class.</p><p>Further, I forgot to mention this before, why is our KoS fabled gear and the Paladin helm such a joke? You can't tell me you like the banana / chicken look. Even the Armor Quest set in the 20's looks awful (in my opinion). It should look "cool" not silly.</p>

[lik]

<p align="left">I do not care about none raid paladins. Now lets get too it. If Paladins lost "Holy Ground" they would never be in a raid setup. Adds in this game do not hit hard they do not need a plate tank to tank them. They just need any class with good aggro skills. I have seen swashcraplers tank the adds in VP like the nexona crap adds. Instance raiding does not need a Plate off tank. "last 2 mobs in soh plate tanks are neet too have" . Take away Holy ground =  No paladins in a raid.</p>

[fadelm]

The two main things I look for are Mitigation and Agility, after all, we are tanks, not dps.  We need to avoid damage, not dish it out.

[Feydakeen]

<cite>Renh wrote:</cite><blockquote>I almost always tanked my pally while leveling up and I had a blast doing it.  I thought my Dorf Pally was very cool! Whether you love your pally or not you dont think he/she is cool. Well I disagree! I think my pally is very cool!</blockquote><p>Well hoorah for you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I think my pally is cool too, but alas i have to wake you up, hardly anybody else does ! If you can prove otherwise and show that every raid needs at least 2-3 pallies i'll believe you <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Renh]

<p>I have nothing I need to show you to make you believe me. I have absolutely nothing I need to prove to you. Oh and by the way I dont need anyone to wake me up. You see what I said was "I think". I dont need to make you believe what I think. I dont need to prove to you what I think. you see what I think is an opinion just as what you believe is an opinion. There is noting to prove. I dont really care whether or not other people think pallies are cool or not. I dont play for others. I play for myself and my own enjoyment. If i'm enjoying it that's all that matters. You see "I THINK" pallies are cool and that's all that matters to me. I dont need to make you or anyone else believe what I think. so that's right HOORAY for me. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Valphine]

I remeber when we had a Str, Agi & Sta buff we chould put on us self and our group members... long time ago tho, think I was around 30ish and they change that with a early LU.

[Feydakeen]

<cite>Renh wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> I play for myself and my own enjoyment. If i'm enjoying it that's all that matters. You see "I THINK" pallies are cool and that's all that matters to me. I dont need to make you or anyone else believe what I think. so that's right HOORAY for me. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>Great, but alas the title of this thread isn`t : I remember when MY Paladin was cool :p

[Rast]

<p>I used to raid with my pally as both a MT and a OT, and sometimes as a 3rd tank (depending on who I was raiding with and where).  Only reason I'm not now is because I moved servers and the guild I joined isn't quite ready to start raiding, but i'll raid again and again, I'll show people how foolish they were for not believing a paladin can tank.</p><p>Now, maybe, just maybe, I'm an oddity and just too darn good at my class, but I find that hard to believe.</p>

[Loxus]

<cite>Feydakeen@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Renh wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well I disagree with you on several points. First of all I've been playing Pally since launch and I dont ever remember a time when there were a ton of us. That's one of the things I like. Second, I dont know what your talking about we aren't cool anymore. Please we've always been cool!!!!</p><p> To the person who said pallies were a joke just behind ranjors!?!? PLEASE!!!!!!!  My main in EQ1 was a Pally and my second toon was a ranjor. yeah my Ranjor got lots of crap, but my Pally was a stud!!! I always got asked to tank over other tanks! Not talking about raids, but talking about lvling.</p><p> I'ved alway been a Pally Stud and I always will. If pallies aren't "cool" to you, well I guess its just you who isn't cool!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote><p>Please read before you post. I have been a pally from EQ1 and from start of EQ2 , so I LOVE the class. Face it however most people do not think we`re cool. Period. I love my pally fervently though and i raid high-end and am a very good OT, however you should try to enter a pick-up raid with your pally, you`ll see how cool they think you are :p</p></blockquote><p>She's right; before the release of ROK in EQ1 pallys were terrible as were Sk's (but to a lesser extent).  Pally couldn't dps to save their lives nor could they take a hit.  It wasn't until soe introduced all the stuns and the new pally weapons did they come into their own.  The one cool thing pallys had at release though was the firey avenger quest which was like the first epic quest before the epics were even released but God it was a bear of a quest.  I only knew of 1 pally (on Quellious) that ever completed it, before the release of ROK.  </p><p>Rangers:  I played a Ranger from release and they had the same defensive skill of Shamans up until the end of ROK/Velious release.  It wasn't until they changed the bow damage to 2X on standing mobs and upped the defense did they get marginally better.  When EQ1 first released though, there were Rangers swinging from the trees!  That died quick.</p><p>In EQ2, I betrayed my SK to a Pally at 80, and I have to admit i'm a lot happier.  The pally is a very solid class.  The only thing I'd even think about tweaking is power regen upped a tad, a tad bit more dps, and about 2k to 4k more healing on LOH (health touch) at 80.  Oh, and Pallys/SK's should get fear immunity as an inate ability not part of an AA line Dag Nabbit!  We are religious zeloits fighting for the to spread the faith of <insert deity here>.  We "should" have no fear that our God will protect us (in theory) even though we're probably going to die horroribily.</p><p>SK's are a blast to play and level really easy up until 80, I've taken down mobs solo only losing 10% health that I've seen pally's barely beat (they could have been bad played pallys too).  But at 80, a pally crushes sk's hands down in all factors except soloing.</p><p>So if you like to group most of the time - choose/stay a pally.</p><p>If you solo most of the time with some grouping - choose an SK -  Then betray at 80.</p>

[Rast]

yah, I can agree to that.  The AA should be a group fear immunity, thus representing our zealous nature spreading to our commrades.  Give crusaders a natural fear immunity <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[King_BoB]

Some interesting thoughts about the Paladin.  I have played a Paladin since beta in Everquest 1.  In beta of EQ 2 I played one and at launch I played one up until about 26 or so.  I have been considering firing him back up and have been scouting the forums here to see what state the Paladin is in here in EQ 2.  My wife plays a 40 Pal and loves it.  Some people mentioned Paladins in EQ 1 and it's important to remember that people have different experiences even in the same game.  All in all based on my perspective of paladins in EQ 1 (I still play EQ 1 and my paly btw) was for the first couple years they were one of the weakest classes in the game.  They were literally warrior + cleric (had the same cleric spells just at later levels)... which made them crappier healers than clerics and crapier tanks and dps than warriors.  They were a lot more fun to play than warriors though.  Once you got to the levels that gave you some stun spells you did more in combat than a warrior, even if you didn't do the same dps and didn't mitigate damage as well (warriors in EQ 1 still have a better defensive mitigation, though it has been tweaked to be closer to even than it was earlier).Basically Paladin's were only played by those that either enjoyed being weaker than the other classes or those up for the challenge.  At launch they were promised "Paladin swords" to counter balance them, though in reality not many people got them until they weren't that great.  Once proven, a Paladin could be a great tank.  They could heal pretty decent at higher levels, comparing to a Druid and Shaman in fact, so played right they could hold their own as a tank.Now in EQ 1 at the high levels Paladins rock.  They still have no ideal spot in raids, though for a lot of raids a well geared Paladin can tank quite well.  At the group level Warriors, Palys, and SKs are roughly equal as tanks for the mass majority of content.  Palys in EQ 1 get special AA (Alternate Ability points) that give them a chance to do undead super critical hits basically.  This can cause there DPS to be pretty good against undead.  Palys also get quite a bit of healing and buffs in EQ 1.  So Palys at the high level in EQ 1 rock the group game.  They can even solo some of the older raid content third to only clerics and shammys.  In EQ 2 I don't know.  I did play my paly to 26 shortly after launch and I enjoyed him.  I didn't like certain aspects of EQ 2 over EQ 1 though and I'm not sure I still do.  I do want to come back and catch up to my wife at 40 and give it shot however.  I do like all of the new EQ 2 content bringing back nostalgic EQ 1 content, that really holds a huge appeal for me (and I imagine all of the other former EQ 1 players).  In fact it also holds a hook for my wife to come play EQ 1 with me every once in a while and see some of the content that stuff is based off of.So after reading this thread it actually seems Palys in EQ 2 are in a good spot, like they are in EQ 1 in fact.  Sure there is always good things to complain about, but it sounds like the class seems balanced.  Best to be balanced and not overpowered, that's when the nerf stick get's weilded and often you end up over-weak instead of overpowered.

[Feydakeen]

<cite>King_BoB wrote:</cite><blockquote> Sure there is always good things to complain about, but it sounds like the class seems balanced.  Best to be balanced and not overpowered, that's when the nerf stick get's weilded and often you end up over-weak instead of overpowered.</blockquote><p>Exactly!</p><p>I think we`re really OK, and I really enjoy the OT-role, even more then the MT role, wich i often get when taking down Venril Sathir (fear immunity FTW). As group tank we totally rock.</p><p>Some extra DPS would be nice, our mythical isn`t quite what i wanted but that`s about it...</p>

[Satyrfawn]

Paladins- at least on Everfrost- still suffer the stigma from some bad press. Maybe there were a lot of players that couldn't play a Paladin the way they were meant to be played, I've heard people say they had some bad experiences in pugs.... because 4 years into the game I still hear players groan about letting a Paladin tank for them. The ultimate insult? You join a group, and you see in level chat the group leader say "Sebilis group needs tank and gtg".

[Feydakeen]

<cite>Thorsson@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Paladins- at least on Everfrost- still suffer the stigma from some bad press. The ultimate insult? You join a group, and you see in level chat the group leader say "Sebilis group needs tank and gtg".</blockquote><p>Not only on Everfrost..., on Splitpaw you get the usual jokes about Pallies on Norrathtrade channel too. Like how many pallies does it take to change a lighbulb etc... :p</p><p>For me the biggest insult is: Just when you joined a group and then they say great now we have 1,5 healers in group...<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Rast]

<p>If you want to be a tank, you have to believe like a tank.  You have to believe that any mob you step infront of will be dead when you walk away.  Learn how to turn mobs, learn position and learn to trust your healers.  That is the great secret of tanking, it isn't hocus pocus, it isn't something wrong with the class, it has more to do with knowledge and trust.  Trust in yourself and trust in your teammates (which I can understand being a bit... shakey in a pick up group).</p><p>When someone is looking for a tank and you are interested, don't let them tell you that you aren't.  And then don't blow it.  Soon enough, your reputation will get around and you'll have people contacting YOU to come tank for them.  Trust me, I know.</p>

[Niou]

My enemies go blind from overexposure to pure awesomeness.I still think my class is cool.

[Vain]

<cite>Thorsson@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Paladins- at least on Everfrost- still suffer the stigma from some bad press. Maybe there were a lot of players that couldn't play a Paladin the way they were meant to be played, I've heard people say they had some bad experiences in pugs.... because 4 years into the game I still hear players groan about letting a Paladin tank for them. The ultimate insult? You join a group, and you see in level chat the group leader say "Sebilis group needs tank and gtg".</blockquote><p>These players are likely horrible at the game or have grouped with pallies played by 3 year olds. Group tanking for paladin is a simple as </p><p>1) /useabilty amends on <mage/scout> target;</p><p>2) /autofollow <amends target>;</p><p>3) /afk</p><p>and you can still parse 2nd <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Hamervelder]

<cite>Vathranen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I've been meaning to make this post for a while now. I've played three Paladins so far; one on Lucan D'Lere, one on Venekor and just started one on Antonia Bayle. The first two betrayed to Shadowknight around 50 or 60. The most recent one is 37 but will be switched over to Shadowknight before 40.</p><p> Don't get me wrong here - this is a whine post. But it's a bit different than the other Paladin whine posts around here. What makes me sad about the class is not our lack of raid tanking capability (which seems to be the biggest gripe). What I don't like is how Paladins lost their "cool" factor.</p><p> (Correct me if I'm wrong here, but LU32 was the combat revamp a couple years ago right?)</p><p>See, before LU32 Paladins were the "it" class. You saw them everywhere. There was a reason - they were cool. You could cast ward on the run. You did some respectable damage and really felt like you led your group into the assault. After LU32 they gave us more healing capability and removed our damage output. Our spells became very easily interrupted. Why did our damage procs become mostly effective against undead? We aren't clerics, we're Paladins. Make it work against anything evil. Why are we a tank class with a bunch of really long cast time spells? </p><p> Sometimes I think maybe I'm not remembering things right. Sometimes I wonder if Paladins were always the way they are now and Shadowknights just got that much better. But then I look at the Paladin AA tree. What a disappointment. Talk about boring.</p><p> Does anyone else remember when we were cool or am I just remembering things a bit more golden in my older years?</p></blockquote>It was LU13.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  If you think pallies are so bad, I invite you to roll an SK, and play it to the end-game.  I recently betrayed my 80 SK <i>back</i> to paladin, and I'm quite happy that I did.  He was a pally until lvl 69 or so, and remained an SK for over two years.  Having played the same character as both classes extensively, it's my opinion that Shadowknight is the weaker class.  Their AA's are especially useless.  They get less AA lines, and out of the three, none are particularly useful anymore.  Reaving was amazing before RoK, but since SK spell and lifetap damage didn't increase that much in T8, the health return from Reaver became minimal.  You ought to be happy that you aren't playing an SK.  Unlike paladins, they never have been "cool" in EQ2.  Shadowknight has <i>always</i> been a [Removed for Content] class.By the way, hello, paladin boards!  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  PS, if you play on AB and see Uros running around Qeynos, don't beat me up!  I'm a good guy now!

[Vathranen]

<p>Funny story Uros - I did just about the exact same thing as you, but <i>twice.</i></p><p>I leveled a Paladin to mid-60's before KoS and PvP came out. I switched to play PvP for about a year and did a Paladin there as well. I got to 70, became disgusted with the Paladin's role in PvP ( or lack thereof ) and quit. I went back to the PvE server, still disgusted with Paladins, so I switched to Shadowknight and leveled to 76. I popped back to PvP a few months later and switched that Paladin to Shadowknight as well, but PvP just isn't my bag so I didn't end up staying. I took another few months off EQ2. Then when I came back this summer I started yet another Paladin on a new PvE server (AB).</p><p>All that to say I've seen both sides of the fence. I really liked Reaving and the extra 8 AA points in the Crusader tree (since the Shadowknight has no use for heal crit). But I recently got Smite Evil on my newest Paladin and I really enjoy that too.</p><p>For performance my experience has been that Shadowknight is much better at soloing simply by being more efficient (Heal and damage in every spell, not seperate abilities) and utility with FD and evac. But the Paladin is better in a group and has a lot more things to do there.</p><p>But my original topic here wasn't about which class is better, or why the Paladin isn't the best raid tank (I'm not even a raider). It's about the cool factor of the class. My last example is my best one: Class specific armor. Look at the Shadowknight armor and helm and compare it to the banana with chicken wings. Which one wins the cool contest? Even if you look at stats on, say, Blood Iron plate - why does the Paladin armor have WIS and the Shadowknight gets INT? I don't care about WIS - I never run out of power, and I resist about everything that's cast on me already. Give me the INT so Smite Evil becomes even more fun. I just don't like the pigeon-holing that's going on.</p>

[Hamervelder]

<cite>Vathranen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Funny story Uros - I did just about the exact same thing as you, but <i>twice.</i></p><p>I leveled a Paladin to mid-60's before KoS and PvP came out. I switched to play PvP for about a year and did a Paladin there as well. I got to 70, became disgusted with the Paladin's role in PvP ( or lack thereof ) and quit. I went back to the PvE server, still disgusted with Paladins, so I switched to Shadowknight and leveled to 76. I popped back to PvP a few months later and switched that Paladin to Shadowknight as well, but PvP just isn't my bag so I didn't end up staying. I took another few months off EQ2. Then when I came back this summer I started yet another Paladin on a new PvE server (AB).</p><p>All that to say I've seen both sides of the fence. I really liked Reaving and the extra 8 AA points in the Crusader tree (since the Shadowknight has no use for heal crit). But I recently got Smite Evil on my newest Paladin and I really enjoy that too.</p><p>For performance my experience has been that Shadowknight is much better at soloing simply by being more efficient (Heal and damage in every spell, not seperate abilities) and utility with FD and evac. But the Paladin is better in a group and has a lot more things to do there.</p><p>But my original topic here wasn't about which class is better, or why the Paladin isn't the best raid tank (I'm not even a raider). It's about the cool factor of the class. My last example is my best one: Class specific armor. Look at the Shadowknight armor and helm and compare it to the banana with chicken wings. Which one wins the cool contest? Even if you look at stats on, say, Blood Iron plate - why does the Paladin armor have WIS and the Shadowknight gets INT? I don't care about WIS - I never run out of power, and I resist about everything that's cast on me already. Give me the INT so Smite Evil becomes even more fun. I just don't like the pigeon-holing that's going on.</p></blockquote>Oh yeah, there's no denying that the Chiquita Banana armor is uncool.  It's even worse coupled with the Goosebucket.  I just wear Darkmetal armor and forget about the helmet.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />