How HP Regen could work

[Ri]

Long post short: Boost the cap (I propose a boost from 3x a level to 7x a level).<p>Now the reasoning.</p><p>After rummaging around I've discovered the following: 3 classes buff HP regen, all with AA abilities to boost those buffs. Furies have Armor of Nature (M1 is +108, +30% max AA, total 140), Troubs have Rejuv Celebration (M1 is +156, +25% AA, total 195), and Zerkers have Blood Regen (M1 is +83, +50% max AA, total 125) and Relentless Rage (M1 is +106, +25% max AA, total 133). In addition to these and the various items that boost hp regen, the Tribunal Blessing Law and Order gives 499 HP regen at L80, which at any level is a worthless blessing but I'll get to that in a minute.  All spells listed are their L80 forms.</p><p>Now, current cap is 3x a level (I can't confirm myself, but believe it to be true) which at max AAs puts us above the cap of 240. Law and Order scales with level, but at -any- level is about 2x over the cap. No one sees the full potential of this blessing under the current system, let alone a Zerker. Also, as it stands, if any of those 3 classes group with each other, none of them see the full amount from their spells. By setting the cap to 7x a level instead of 3x (thereby increasing the amount to 560 a tick), it not only allows a zerker to utilize his AA tree, but also increases the benefits of Furies and Troubs to each other and to Zerkers.</p><p>Fun with numbers:Proposed system (solo Zerker):257 with maxed AAs, 514 with Perseverance (+100% while under 30% health) -- amounts to about a 5% heal with about 11k hps</p><p>(with Fury and Troub in group):140+195+257 = 592 (would cap at 560)</p><p>Anyone with Law and Order Blessing:499 (would see full benefit of this spell)</p><p>Now, what if no caps per level? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />140+195+257+499 = 1092 hp per tick (not including any hp regen gear)</p><p>And god forbid you drop below 30% health which would boost you to 2184 per tick. Which in a group where you have ~14k hps, would be a 15% heal every 6 seconds.  Juggernaut would be useful then, no?</p><p>So to recap, 3x a level is too low, affects Furies, Troubs, and Zerkers and completely screws over a deity blessing. Boost it to 7x!</p><p>Edit:  Because math is hard. . .</p>

[victer]

The tick is still every six seconds and does nothing when you are at full HP.That is the problem.... not the "strength" of the numbers.Healers constantly heal everyone. You will be lucky to have it tick regulary before they heal you to full.

[Ri]

<cite>Victer@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>The tick is still every six seconds and does nothing when you are at full HP.That is the problem.... not the "strength" of the numbers.Healers constantly heal everyone. You will be lucky to have it tick regulary before they heal you to full.</blockquote>How is tick time a problem? Or the fact that it doesn't do anything while you're at full health?  Hate to tell you this, but -no- heal will benefit you when you're at full health.  Besides, it's a no power heal every 6 seconds that you don't have to cast, can't be interrupted, and requires no skill to use, it's just -there-.Although you're partially right, it isn't the strength of the numbers that's the problem; it's the cap that's set too low to make use of what is already in game.  All I'm advacating for is that I be able utilize these skills and not have them marginalized by some arbitrary cap.It'd be like them putting a cap on weapon DR at say 150, then putting in a 300 rated weapon.

[Bremer]

<cite>Rish wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Hate to tell you this, but -no- heal will benefit you when you're at full health. </blockquote>A ward will.

[epyon333]

<p>i think this machanic just need to be rethought.  its great if you fighting a mob with high hp and defences.  if you fight one that hits hard but goes down quick its totally useless.  also as it stand now even just soloing this bearly have an effect on the outcome.  </p><p> Maybe it could be changed to regening a percentage of the damage you took during the 6 secs before it processes.  that way it doesnt matter how hard the mob hits or how fast it goes down its always just being just as useful.  maybe even make it regen melee damage only since where fighters.  </p><p>then of coruse adjust the percentages so that you can only reach the cap when every class that can effect regen per tick is together and has all master I's and maxed out every AA skill that can improve the skills effectiveness.  </p>

[victer]

<cite>Rish wrote:</cite><blockquote>How is tick time a problem? Or the fact that it doesn't do anything while you're at full health? </blockquote><p>Because 6 seconds is more then plenty of time for healers to heal you to full before the tick goes off. And healers are constanlty spamming everyones health to full. Which means the regen will very very rarely ever affect you. Haveing to upgrade 2 skills ever tier for an effect that very rarely even affects you is not cool.</p><p>You have a point on the cap of in combat regen. But increasing it still does not solve the problem that it very rarely even effects you.</p>

[Ri]

<cite>Bremer wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rish wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Hate to tell you this, but -no- heal will benefit you when you're at full health. </blockquote>A ward will.</blockquote>One could argue that a ward isn't technically a heal as all it does is prevent damage being done to you and doesn't heal hps that have already been lost.If I'm sitting at 50% health and a shaman wards me, I'm still sitting at 50% health.  Only when that ward expires does it give an actual heal and if you're sitting at 100%, that heal is wasted.

[Ri]

<cite>Victer@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rish wrote:</cite><blockquote>How is tick time a problem? Or the fact that it doesn't do anything while you're at full health? </blockquote><p>Because 6 seconds is more then plenty of time for healers to heal you to full before the tick goes off. And healers are constanlty spamming everyones health to full. Which means the regen will very very rarely ever affect you. Haveing to upgrade 2 skills ever tier for an effect that very rarely even affects you is not cool.</p><p>You have a point on the cap of in combat regen. But increasing it still does not solve the problem that it very rarely even effects you.</p></blockquote>So your complaint is that it isn't as useful as what, exactly? So would you perfer quicker rate, but for smaller amounts (keeping the overall amount the same)?  I could possibly get behind an idea where our buffs increase the tick speed (akin to druid AAs speeding up their HoT ticks), but it still wouldn't solve the problem with certain buffs, AAs, or whatever hitting so close (or even way over) the cap as to be negating any positive effects those extra AAs would do.I also think it would be far easier to try and justify to a dev to simply raise the cap rather than rework the mechanics.As an edit, I think what you're trying to get across is that it's not as useful on raids as you'd like.  I would agree that it is and even could be -much- better while soloing (with a cap increase), not as useful but still reliable while grouping, and fairly useless while raiding.  But that could be said of any number of skills/combat arts/spells.  It's just the way the game is.  Do you really think the secondary debuffs on our CAs are useful against a raid mob?

[LygerT]

<p>on occasions where your healers may be stunned or to help prevent from being 2 shotted after the first hit takes you to the red i often thought the ticks were too far apart and the HP regen figures were capped way too low. i don't think this is a bad idea, and it certainly wouldn't hurt nor is it as completely useless as some make it out to be. </p><p>hp regen was basically capped and set low a long while back, mainly for solo play and definitely needs a revamp or to be completely removed and replaced. </p>

[victer]

<p>Rish I understand your points about the cap on incombat regen and I agree with you. The cap that is on it right now does need to be changed regardless of anything else. Even if they reduced the tick time to 1-2 seconds the cap on it still doesnt make it viable.</p><p>What im trying to get you to understand is that there really is no benifit to having it tick every 6 seconds in raid or in group settings. The real problem of the mechanic is a combination of the tick time, the cap on it, and the fact that nothing is effected when you are at full HP. </p><p>The only place where HP regen is viable is when you do not have a healer constantly trying to bring your HP to full. Soloing. Any other setup that has a healer constantly healing makes the effect on combat regen pointless. </p><p>Your right that it would be alot easier to convince the devs to up the cap rather then change the mechanics of it. But what im trying to get through to you is that even if you double the cap at what it is right now, it STILL wont be viable because of the tick time and the fact that healers will have you healed to full before this even has a chance to tick. The mechanic itself needs to be looked at not just the strength of the numbers (altho this is important also)</p><p>I had a previous post that had an idea but i will try an incorperate your cap idea into mine...</p><p>Keep the tick time the same. Increase the cap to a reasonable ammount. The only difference is when you are at your normal max HP and the tick goes off its boosts your HP once for the value of the tick over your current maximum HP. For example.</p><p>i have 5000HP and 500 in combat HP regen.</p><ul><li><div align="left">Before I start fighting I have 5000HP. I then engage the mob and it hits me for 1000.</div></li><li><div align="left">I now have 4000 HP. The healer heals me to full. </div></li><li><div align="left">I now have 5000 HP. 6 seconds pass and the HP regen ticks</div></li><li><div align="left">I now have 5500 HP. The mob hits me for 1000.</div></li><li><div align="left">I now have 4500 HP. The healer heals me to full.</div></li><li><div align="left">I now have 5000 HP. 6 seconds pass and the HP regen ticks</div></li><li><div align="left">I now have 5500 HP. 6 more sceconds pass and the HP regen ticks</div></li><li><div align="left">I still only have 5500 HP. I kill the mob. And am no longer in combat.</div></li><li><div align="left">I now have 5000 HP.</div></li></ul><p>What this does is keep the the skill the same but also takes care of the cap being too low and the fact that it will still help you by giving you a little buff while your healers have you at full.</p>

[Ri]

<cite>Victer@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>...<p>I had a previous post that had an idea but i will try an incorperate your cap idea into mine...</p><p>Keep the tick time the same. Increase the cap to a reasonable ammount. The only difference is when you are at your normal max HP and the tick goes off its boosts your HP once for the value of the tick over your current maximum HP. ...</p></blockquote>I like that idea, actually.  Implementing something along those lines while including the cap increase could definatly go a long way to improving HP regen as an ability.And I completely understand where you're coming from, I do.  At the same time, I feel I should explain my experience with this mechanic.  One of my other alts is a Druid.  My technique while healing is to try and keep the tank at around 90% health simply because if I'm always healing the tank to 100%, then my HoTs get wasted and I'm basicly just tossing away power.  So with my playstyle, HP regen actually goes off fairly often.  Maybe I'm just alone in that tactic.  Although in a raid (not that I've healed in one), I can only imagine that the MT healers are just spamming away.I guess in a sense, your idea mirrors basicly what I do while healing of providing that buffer area so that neither heals or regen get wasted.  Now I guess the hard part is getting it put in.