+Disease Dmg, +spell Dmg, +Cmbt Arts Dmg

[skycruise]

I am set for like +150 disease dmg, +600 spell dmg, +300 Cmb Art Dmg yet my dps is still weak....Sometimes even adding a +50 piece only adds like a few extra single digit points to a spell.Is it me or is this + disease dmg, spell dmg and CA dmg a joke?

[knightba]

It is a joke, for crusaders.  Since you start getting MAJOR diminishing returns from +spell, +ca at 50% of the base damage and our base damage is so low. Once you get around 400 spell damage the only spell you'll really be boosting is Wrath if you are an sk. CA cap is even lower.

[Hugsnkissums]

I think I read something about a soft cap to +spell and +melee damage somewhere that said you get huge diminishing returns after +250. I'm not 100% on that, but it might be why you're not seeing the punch you 'should' be with THAT much additional damage.

[knightba]

Do this. Strip yourself of all your +spell damage gear. Pick one non-lifetapping spell, I'll use Malice. Note the first number in the damage spread for the spell. Now equip one piece of +spell gear. You will see that amount change by exactly the amount of the +spell damage mod. The exception is if the gear you equipped also has INT, in that case you will see a slightly higher increase since you are raising the base damage. Keep doing this piece by piece until you see the amount of the increase on the spell is less than the amount of the spell mod. At that point you are capped for that spell, and will recieve very low benefits at a ratio of about 50 to 3. Now, look at Pain Wrath which is a higher damage spell. Unequip that last piece of gear and you will see the lower number decrease by the same amount on the piece(again a little more if int is on the piece). This is because Wrath has a much higher base damage amount so it has a higher mod cap.

[rabid.pooh]

<p>I'm pretty sure there is no diminishing returns on spell damage/mele damage it's just goes up to max 50% of the base damage on the spell, and of course as you add those types of items your int/str go up which add to that base damage.</p><p>Another thing of note is that for life taps, spell damage is divided in half to the damage portion and the heal portion of the spell.  So lets say drain vitae does 200 damage and 100 hp heal, If you had a +100 spell damage item 50 damage would be applied to the damage for 250, and 50 to the heal for 150 HP. </p>

[Phelon_Skellhound]

<p>Let me copy and paste something from I forget where from I forget who....</p><p>================================================== =====</p><p>Several have asked how is the 50% cap on +spell damage is calculated, and why do some spells seem not to get to 150%.  The answers are here.  I tested 10 wizard spells of differing types, at 2 INT levels.    I have simplified each type into a round number generic, listed below, for eyeball relief when reading.</p><p>1. Generic Single Target Direct Damage:</p><p>Spells have a minimum and maximum damage shown on the spell icon when you mouse over it.  +spell adds to both, until it caps at half each of their values.      </p><p>Example 1:  Hits for 500 - 900.</p><p>Base Damage     500  -   900 adding +100       600  -  1000    no caps reached.adding +300       750  -  1200    the minimum caps at 250 (half of 500) while the max takes all +300.adding +500       750  -  1350    the minimum is already capped.  The maximum caps at 450 (half of 900).</p><p>This example is totally capped at +450 to spell.   </p><p>On mouseover the spell icon would now read: Hits for 750 - 1350 </p><p>2. Generic Single Target Damage over Time:</p><p>Example 2:  Hits for 100 - 180 initially, and every second for 4 seconds. (Totals 5 ticks)</p><p>To calculate single target Dot damage gain due to +spell effects, the total damage if it ticks out is required to be calculated.  In this example, it is 5 ticks x each of the endpoints.</p><p>Base dot range   100  -   180total damage      500  -   900 total tick damage range</p><p>The same rules as example 1 are now applied to endpoints:</p><p>adding +100       600  - 1000     no caps reachedadding +300       750  -  1200    the minimum caps at 250 (half of 500) while the max takes all 300adding +500       750  -  1350    the minimum is already capped.  The maximum caps at 450 (half of 900)</p><p>The total damage <i>increase</i> for the spell is computed:</p><p>Increase:           250  -  450 and will be applied to the first tick.</p><p>On mouseover the spell icon would now read:  Hits for 350 - 630 initially, and 100 - 180 every second for 4 seconds.</p><p>Note: some DoT spells already have a frontloaded damage profile.  The +spell addition still works the same way.  First calculate the damage endpoint totals if the spell ticked out, then calculate the cap min and max additions, then apply the additional damage to the first tick of the spell.  (Which frontloads it even more)</p><p>3. Generic Multiple Target Direct Damage  (locked or unlocked):</p><p>Example 3:  Hits target encounter for 500 - 900</p><p>Multiple target DD gain due to +spell is normalized to 3 targets.  This limits the addition on the spell listing to 1/3 of the STDD amount.  </p><p>Base Damage     500  -    900      adding +100       583  -  1000    minimum cap of 250 for single targets divided by 3.  Maximum side is not yet capped. adding +300       583  -  1050    minimum capped above,  Maximum caps at 450 / 3  adding +500       583  -  1050    both minimum and maximum are already capped.</p><p>This example is totally capped at +150 to spell damage.  </p><p>On mouseover the spell icon would now read: Hits target encounter for 583 - 1050 </p><p>4. Generic Multiple Target Damage over Time:</p><p>Example 4:  Hits target encounter for 100 - 180 initially, and every second for 4 seconds. (Totals 5 ticks)</p><p>Because it is a DoT,  the total damage if it ticks out is required to be calculated.  In this example, it is 5 ticks x each of the endpoints.</p><p>Base dot range  100  -  180total damage     500  -   900   total tick out range</p><p>Because it is an AOE, it is normalized to 3 targets.  This means the damage cap is 1/3 the damage cap of single target DoTs :</p><p>adding +100     583  - 1000     minimum cap of 250 for single targets divides by 3.  Maximum not yet capped. adding +300     583  -  1050    minimum capped above,  Maximum caps at 450 / 3  adding +500     583  -  1050    both minimum and maximum are already capped.</p><p>The total damage increase is computed:</p><p>Increase:        83  -  150  and will be applied to the first tick.</p><p>On mouseover the spell icon would now read: Hits target encounter for 183 - 330 initially, and 100 - 180 every second for 4 seconds. </p><p>5.  How does adding INT affect the +spell damage?</p><p>INT increases the base damage range, so the caps are higher as you add spell damage gear.</p><p>Repeating Example 1, but adding 300 INT will increase the base damage 10%.  </p><p>1. Generic Single Target Direct Damage:</p><p>Example 5 (STDD from 1 above with 300 INT added now reads on spell icon:  Hits for 550 - 990.</p><p>Base Damage     550  -    990 adding +100       650  -  1090    no caps reached.adding +300       825  -- 1290    the minimum caps at 275 (half of 550) while the max takes all 300.adding +500       825  -  1485    the minimum is already capped.  The maximum caps at 495 (half of 990).</p><p>This example is totally capped at +495.  </p><p>On mouseover the spell icon would now read: Hits for 825 - 1485  compared to 750 - 1350 from example 1, where it was 300 INT lower.</p><p>Points that sometimes confuse are:</p><p>1  AOEs are normalized to 3 targets, so you will never see 150% on anything on the spell icon.  If it hits 3 targets you'll be at 150%.</p><p>2.  Dots are calculated off the total damage if it ticks out, and applied to the first tick.  You'll not see 150% on any number on the icon, but it is there if you've capped the maximum side.</p><p>3.  AOE dots are confusing on the display due to both the frontloading, and the 3 target normalization.</p><p>4.  High level spells may never cap out, as you have to get to 50% of the maximum.   I don't see +5000 to spell damage happening with the gear drops that are being seen, and even that would not cap some spells.    </p><p>5.  Most +spell gear has INT on it,  which may raise or lower the base reading before the cap calculation when you swap it out.  You may be looking for 150% of a base that no longer exists.    Plus to spell is always better than a few INT points lost, however.</p>

[Phelon_Skellhound]

Have to ask since u didn't post it....  what is your int and str at? are u timing spell/ca's with your mellee swings or are you button mashing?  do lead in with your debuffs?  if you are not tanking are u using a 2h? are we talking bout raid dps? hard to pin point exactly what ya trying to acheive....