Formal requests in lieu of the skeleton revamp being scrapped [Archive]

Snowdonia

08-05-2008, 09:03 AM

Alright, since we've now been told that we will NOT be getting a skeleton revamp, I feel comnfortable enough to make a list of requests for our character models seeing they can no longer be overlooked due to a supposed revamp. We're going to have to keep and live with the character models we have then I'd like MANY (if not most) of the 3 years of requests options to be seriously considered for implimentation.Some of these are:<ul><li>Hairstyles need to be unlocked - There is no reason why only Human males can have all of their respective hairstyles from original and SOGA models available to them and no other race/sex combo can. Therefore, I request that hairstyles be unlocked such as the Human males have been. Additionally, the different racial hairstyles should also be unlocked and made available to similar races. This way, any race with common hair design make ups (IE Human, Wood Elf, High Elf, Half Elf, Dark Elf, Gnome, Barbarian, Fae, Arasai, Dwarf and Halfling) can choose from the battery of various hairstyles that an integrated society would normally allow (why can't my female High Elf have a mohawk?).</li><li>Unlock accessories - I'm not asking that you unlock woads so that every other race can look like mini Barbarians, nor shrouds so we can all be like Wood Elves. But accessories such as scars, piercings, eyepatches and spectacles should not be racial specific.</li><li>Give us belly buttons already - I understand this means reskinning that section of the model, but it's very unsettling looking at your character when they are a female elf or whatever other race/sex combo has this issue and wondering how they were born. Even Fae and Arasai have belly buttons and they aren't even born inside a womb.</li><li>Panty lines have never been attractive - As much as I hate making a gender specific request, in this concern, thankfully, only females have this problem. While you are reskinning models so they have belly buttons, how about fixing some of the horrid panty lines that show when wearing some (formal ensemble) of the clothing available. The female models for Dwarves, Halflings, and Barbarians, being very "hippy" have their undies showing at the hips while the Erudites and Gnomes have them peeking out at the top (and who knows what other races, I've not finished my research here). If you're going to give us outfits that are as revealing as the formal ensemble, then our undergarments should not ruin the look.</li><li>Separate the tops from the bottoms - There are some outfits out there that could benefit greatly from having the top actually be just the top instead of the entire outfit. Let the various complimentary pieces make up the rest of the look instead of letting the top do it for us. Maybe we don't want those pants with that top. Maybe we don't want those sleeves with that outfit.</li><li>Give us something new to look at - Retinting the same armor skins can only get you so far and I think it's hit its plateau of usefulness IMO. I'm not asking for 100 new armor graphics, but 2 new graphics per armor type wouldn't go amiss. Cool designs on the same armor structure was a nice change that we got with RoK, but the basic structure of the armor is still the same and we need something new!</li><li>I know I have a middrift somewhere - And this doesn't just go for female characters. There's absolutely nothing wrong with showing off a middrift. It's not something only tarty women like to do. I'd like to see some armor or clothing that doesn't cover up your middrift for a refreshing change.</li><li>Skirts, loincloths and kilts - Not the things we have now that are slit up to the hip either. I want skirts and kilts that end at or slightly above the knee. I want a loincloth (or what I call "the flappies" ) that doesn't have leggings underneath (if we can remove the flappies from the leggings so we can wear leggings flappy free, there is no reason why it can't be done the other way around). If cloth sim makes my legs go through the skirts and kilts when I walk or run, so be it but I would rather have the option to wear them, than have no option at all.</li><li>New emotes - If an Arasai can do an emo dance, and a Fae can do a ballet, why should every other race be forced to do the jitterbug? Every race should have their own dancing style added in addition to the jitterbug dance that every race should get as an alternate. I'm sure actions for the other emotes that currently have none would also be welcome.</li><li>Rats and cats with whiskers - They all have them so why don't Ratongas and Kerrans. Put whiskers on a separate customization and remove them from the accessories options. Like the facial hair of other races, there is no reason why putting on an open faced helm should make their whiskers disappear.</li><li>Broader color spectrum for eyes and hair - Even EQ1 allowed for far more color choices for some races than what is allowed in EQII. With a less segregated world such as EQ1 was, surely we didn't take a step backwards in this area. We would indeed have MORE variety of colors in hair and eyes than EQ1 would even dream of yet we don't. Open up those color pallettes!</li></ul>That's all I can think of atm. If anyone wants to add to this list, feel free to and I'll edit them in.

Vonotar

08-05-2008, 09:43 AM

Great post Snowdonia.Before anybody jumps the wrong way. The skeleton vamp was officially 'announced' as abandoned during the recent allakhazam dev chat: <a href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/wiki/Dev_Chat_July_31_2008" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2.allakhazam.com/wiki/Dev_...at_July_31_2008</a>Instead Sony are now: "focusing on now is ways to customize the look of your character with what we're referring to as "snap ons" that will change your characters profile or silhouette".In addition: "There are also a few other plans to enhance the look of characters that we'll be talking about more once we are more confident that they will work within the EQII framework"Therefore I agree with Snowdonia that we should relook at what we would like to see improved, as we no longer need to await a 'skeleton revamp' first.I would also humbly request that we focus on the improvements we would like to see and leave grumbles regarding the dropping of the Skeleton Revamp in the 'Skeleton Rework' topic: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=166&topic_id=418823" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=418823</a>(Apologies to Snowdonia for the slight OT)

Doggi

08-05-2008, 09:45 AM

Well I don't have any specific points to add, but I'd like to comment a bit: I always wondered why hairstyles and accessories are limited to several races. If they were open to all races, you could look more individual due to having more options to choose from.Perhaps SOE should creat new hairstyles, too. Second, SOE stated many times that it's difficult to create new armor models. Since the whole "skeletal revamp"-thing was a total waste of time, SOE could have created new armor models in the time figuring out that the software wouldn't work (don't know why it took THAT long to recognize it wouldn't work).I'm fine with the current models, only the lack of armor bothers me.Showing more skin while being protected, long skirts, short skirts, no skirts (trousers *g*)Once I made a drawing of my former shadowknight in an armor (which I think) looks really great... though the protection of the neck is on the wrong side (please, ignore the hands xD)<img src="http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/3940/jirakirohiq5.jpg" border="0" alt="" />

Firecracker

08-05-2008, 05:55 PM

Great Post! I liked everything in it especially the unlocking the hair styles. I will have to say this, when people keep saying 'Just making the amor different tints will only suffice some', but do you know how many armor types I have came across that have no other peice to match it and actually have different look to it? alot! I also want to see new armor too but there is a lot out there that is not being used enough and would like to see it be used. Some npc's have armor that I wouldn't mind seeing be made into armor. I would also like to see more mage's vest's that reveal more skin, especially around the neck callarbone area. I would also like to see more colors be made for the high elf hair & dark elf hair like brown to black for high elf's and different shades of red for the dark elf's with red eyes too.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> I ask this for in eq1 I'm sure high elfs could have darker shades and as for dark elfs having red hair I think I get from stories, games and movies that I would have to call them dark elfs.I know there is more I can say on this for I have been wanting more choices to make my charcater different then the rest.Edited to add: Is possbile to make are underwear on the famales be just panties & a bra instead of the rag dress with the option to change colors?

Aurumn

08-05-2008, 06:18 PM

While you're at it, pretty please let Ratongas keep their whiskers with accessories and helms/hoods. It makes no sense that a naked rat has whiskers, but as soon as he/she puts on a cap... *poof* naked nose. /cryHow about adding an additional toggle in character creation: [Display Whiskers Y/N]

WeatherMan

08-06-2008, 02:41 AM

One thing they could do is give us an idea of what these 'snap-ons' they are working on will do. They say one will change a silhouette of a character. That's great.How?Are they snap-on legs of varying height? Snap-on undergarments? Snap-on hairstyles? Snap-on bustlines? Snap-on accessories like sunglasses and masks?Please show us something we can use for a frame of reference instead of the generic Mr. Potato Head allusion.

Snowdonia

08-10-2008, 08:09 PM

Mezzmyrelda, I know what you mean but when I think of all the different types of helms out there that there are, that whole thing would be fiddly to get right. If they just put in a Y/N option for helms, we'd get full facial helms with whiskers sticking out which you have to admit would look rather silly. I even tried to come up with wording for the fuction to add to my list but it was getting so lengthy and muddled I just left it out. WeatherMan, It would make my day if they actually showed us something of what they mean by "snap ons", even if it was just showing us by giving an in depth explanation on how they work, but since we kept asking for the same thing about the skeleton revamp, IE proof of concent, I'm not holding my breath. I just refuse to be baited by this new incarnation of making the models work better, hence why I made the "list of demands" as it were. hehe

Aurumn

08-10-2008, 11:52 PM

Snowdonia; That could be solved as easily as tagging helms as openface or closed. Here's an example of a helm that clearly obstructs none of the face, and yet...<img src="http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj187/LuluPic/SmileHatNRipple-1.jpg" alt="" border="0" /><img src="http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj187/LuluPic/SmileNoHat-1-1.jpg" alt="" border="0" />When her accessories were earrings and a nosering they disappeared with the helm on too. Despite the fact that her ears and nose are unobscured. It's a small thing, I admit. But if it can work properly with dwarven facial hair, it should be able to work on plain old whiskers too. The other whisker issue is that you have to pick an accessory "pack" that includes whiskers to have them at all! IMO, they should be a seperate toggle in character creation. In order to get the whiskers in the above picture my little 'tonga lass had to give up her earrings... or sport a hideous eyepatch. *shiver*

Rorasis

08-11-2008, 12:33 AM

I don't care how difficult it is. New armor models please.

Coniaric

08-11-2008, 01:29 AM

About the comments why it took so long ... I'll guess they want it to work as much as the players do. Beside, it's not the only project going on ... after all, there are other tasks that are being done as well.Also don't anyone here had a moment or two where they wanted something to happened so much the way they hoped for? And won't concede defeat until it had to be conceded?Next time put in full context of what was said, not cut in half, please.*****Bludwyng: Labratt asks, Are there any updates on the skeletal model changes? Kirstie: The skeletal revamp has been through a lot of iterations internally on the EQII team and is now a bit of a misnomer. The original technology that we had planned to use didn't work out as we expected (software, who knew).Kirstie: And we are also being careful not to drastically change the character models. We don't want anyone to log in one day and not recognize their favorite character. Kirstie: What we are focusing on now is ways to customize the look of your character with what we're referring to as "snap ons" that will change your characters profile or silhouette. Kirstie: There are also a few other plans to enhance the look of characters that we'll be talking about more once we are more confident that they will work within the EQII framework

Snowdonia

08-11-2008, 07:58 AM

Coniaric, Evaine provided a link to the full transcript so I see no reason why they should provide a full cut and paste of the mention when people can go read it themselves. I also fail to see how it took over 2 years to figure out that this revamp wasn't going to work with their current software. Additionally, this post isn't about discussing the whens, whys, and how comes of the revamp and its failure to deliver. This is about compiling the years of wishful thinking and "wish lists" that people like myself have made that were offhandedly brushed aside as unviable requests due to the supposed revamp. Please keep the revamp discussion in its proper thread. Mezzmyrelda, I'm going to add in the whiskers to the list but I'd like your help with the wording so please feel free to post responses to correct, add, or fine tune the entry I make.

Noaani

08-11-2008, 07:59 AM

<cite>Riliszkas@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't care how difficult it is. New armor models please.</blockquote>I would think that if they put all the manpower the used on the skeletal revamp into new armour models, there would be far fewer complaints about the whole topic.

Finora

08-11-2008, 12:09 PM

I agree with the OP! On top of that, I'd love some long hair options that aren't a just a big braid. I don't care if it clips with my back & cloak when I run. I can deal with that. I just would like some long hair. And I'm crossing my fingers that they will give us the ability to add things like the scars, freckles, make-up and things of that sort as well as changing the outline of our char.

Vexy

08-11-2008, 02:30 PM

As much as I would love new hair, armor, accessories. I think opening up the idea that all races can share woeds/shrouds/piercings and what not would be a bad idea. If you want your high elf to have a mow hawk, make a half elf. Its class individuality. In lore, I can't see a high elf having crazy hair, or having a woede, or an eyepatch. More hair options, definitely, but combining all the class looks in one, I find doesn't really make sense. Might as well have one race. Along with the other ideas however, I think they're great!

WeatherMan

08-11-2008, 03:45 PM

<cite>Vexy@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>As much as I would love new hair, armor, accessories. I think opening up the idea that all races can share woeds/shrouds/piercings and what not would be a bad idea. If you want your high elf to have a mow hawk, make a half elf. Its class individuality. In lore, I can't see a high elf having crazy hair, or having a woede, or an eyepatch. More hair options, definitely, but combining all the class looks in one, I find doesn't really make sense. Might as well have one race. Along with the other ideas however, I think they're great!</blockquote>There are certain things a high elf could have that make sense.I'll agree that a Halasian woad or a multicolored mohawk would not be appropriate, but I honestly don't see what's wrong with an eyepatch - better that than walking around with a gaping eye socket. If I lost an eye, I'd likely wear an eyepatch in lieu of a glass eye - and I don't see why any non-Ayr'Dal/ratonga/whoever-else-gets-the option wouldn't, either. What about specialized (and subtle) tattoos? Maybe a lightly colored sword over one eye - call it 'Strength of Felwithe' or something (for example). Maybe markings on a religious basis? My fury would likely have a senior cleric of Karana (or whoever) tattoo a 'Bolt of the Storms' (or whatever) across his temple (or wherever) were that to be an option. Hairdos...okay...what we have here in the game now, borders on ridiculousness in many cases. Some hairdos look lame...others look hideous...and others still look like the artist inhaled a few lines from a mirror before sitting down to do their work. You cannot convince me, no matter what, that the population of Norrath hasn't heard of the 'long ponytail', the 'bob', or 'unbound hair with no styling whatsoever'. This is particularly bad on dark elves, of both genders. Sure, cultural and religious considerations exist, but really now. Even something as simple as allowing SOGA hairdos on original models (and vice versa, for you sartorially masochistic sorts) would be a huge step forward. Even if you gave all styles to all races, there is enough in the way of differences that they would not come out a homogenous lot, so that, in my opinion, is something we need never fret over. Where are the hair bands? The hair combs? The hair pins? The barretts? Things you grab, twist a handful of hair into place, and push them into your scalp? My wife does this sort of thing all the time, and I am sure the artists either do themselves, or live with someone who does. She only has the bizarre hairdos (that are a 'daily' thing in Norrath) when we go to science fiction conventions - and she's no slouch with such things, but it takes a heck of a lot longer than a member of the Freeport Militia would spend arranging their 'do before going out to skullthump some Bloodskulls.One thing that really annoyed me was the huge restrictions they placed on color. No, not armor dyes, but the colors one finds in nature. In EQ Live, I had a Koada'Dal with dark hair and a beard. Now he has to be clean-shaven, and the only other color that fits the concept of bringing him forward 500 years is white. I want the dark hair back. I want the beard back. I want it all back. And I don't want to have to bargain with the Devil's Advocate or Mr. Morden to do it.

CorpseGoddess

08-11-2008, 04:35 PM

Coniaric

08-11-2008, 05:38 PM

<cite>Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Coniaric,Evaine provided a link to the full transcript so I see no reason why they should provide a full cut and paste of the mention when people can go read it themselves.I also fail to see how it took over 2 years to figure out that this revamp wasn't going to work with their current software.Additionally, this post isn't about discussing the whens, whys, and how comes of the revamp and its failure to deliver. This is about compiling the years of wishful thinking and "wish lists" that people like myself have made that were offhandedly brushed aside as unviable requests due to the supposed revamp. Please keep the revamp discussion in its proper thread.</blockquote>Sorry, but no. Since the topic was brought up here, the cut of transcript is relevant to the subject. Link notwithstanding.

Snowdonia

08-11-2008, 05:45 PM

<cite>Vexy@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>As much as I would love new hair, armor, accessories. I think opening up the idea that all races can share woeds/shrouds/piercings and what not would be a bad idea. If you want your high elf to have a mow hawk, make a half elf. Its class individuality. In lore, I can't see a high elf having crazy hair, or having a woede, or an eyepatch. More hair options, definitely, but combining all the class looks in one, I find doesn't really make sense. Might as well have one race. Along with the other ideas however, I think they're great!</blockquote>To the italicized, as I said in my original write up, I'm not talking about race defining aspects such as woads or shrouds (although I so like your idea WeatherMan about tattoos), those would definitely be exceptions. But piercings? Those are HARDLY race defining. Neither are any of the other accessory type things I listed that they should unlock.To the bolded, my High Elf is a very evil Bruiser. What lore is it you're looking at that would rebuke a High Elf like mine having a mohawk? That's right, there's isn't any. Any "lore" for a High Elf is based off of their original, good aligned culture. My High Elf no longer adheres to that culture so why should she be bound by the constraints of said culture any longer? If my female High Elf Bruiser was walking around with a mohawk instead of the everyday prissy-missy hair-do they are forced into now, she would most definitely be VERY individual. I chose a High Elf for my Bruiser because she was a High Elf Bruiser; it's part of her RP. It was the sole reason why I made her the way I did and not a Half Elf, or Human, or Barbarian, or whatever other race that can start out as a Bruiser. Her outward appearance should support this drastic shift in ideals rather than force her to adhere to something she no longer believes in or associates herself with.As Streppoch said, right now we have a very bland setting. Why not let us decide how much we would like to shake it up?

Suprchik407

08-11-2008, 07:45 PM

I agree with all points from the OP, Id like to add in a siamese coloring for kerras (it was on my vah shir in eq1 and I loves it) , fix the tiger skins on female kerra, it looks great on males but its nose area is misaligned on females and it makes them look ugly.Make my human female have more face options, heck toggle the human majdul females and Ill be happy, or give us what was made back before the game launched officially, Im not loving my dowdy looking human female, and she just looks frumpy with flat large [Removed for Content], if they are to be large dont make them so flat. Im a female IRL with large breasts and even without a bra they dont look like that. :/ Plus I have curves- please add that into the human model, if you need help think Maryln Monroe for inspiration on human models then give us a slider or something (snap on) to make them thin or bigger [Removed for Content]. Also, I dont mind too much the different tints on dresses- ( I want more tints on the formal wears like they just came out with and I know they cant do more than they have already but I hope they rebuild it where they could recolor it in any way easier). The separates (tops and bottom thing) is great and perhaps with the whole snap ons thing it might be an easier possability now in the future. I sure hope they are taking some eyefulls from the free online game Perfect World, it isnt that far off graphically from eq2 and yet its so much more interesting with what can be done with their own use of snap ons. Their avatars can fly for crying out loud and we can only hover in place <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Anywho- look up that game devs for some pretty awesome armors that seem to be the definition of "snap ons", and give us some nice variety. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (/whispers bunny and/or cat ears

Troubor

08-11-2008, 08:08 PM

Rainmare

08-11-2008, 08:47 PM

actually, the lore would state that a high elf that did go down the path of a brusier/monk type would still not do somethign so hideous to thier hair as to shave it off into a mowhawk. thier very culture, despite your obvious betrayal from qeynos to be a bruiser, dictates refinement and elegance. if a high elf brusier were to shave thier head in any manner, they'd probably shave the entire thing, or might have the style that is a single braid of hair. No matter what proffession a Koada'dal chooses, they indeed take great care to not only be the best, but to look the best.They simply don't do the 'wild' hiarstyles. they leave that for the 'common' folk to do. in fact, a high elf woudl probably consider a half-elf with a mohawk haircut as it being a desperate plea for attention, since they obviously have no other quality worthy of gaining attention if they have to go so far as to have an orange mohawk.a koada'dal brawler would not make a statement with thier hairstyle. they'd make a statement by laying you out on your back, (as a bruiser) or through enlightening actions and speech (as a monk). a high elf wouldn't consider a hairstyle a form of 'rebellion'. they proved that enough by leaving thier kin to go to Freeport.and if you think for a second that a Koada'dal would do ANYTHING that would lessen thier standing among elves, especially in a Tier'dal infested city, your out of your mind. in fact, if a high elf did go to fp, that if they chose any other 'cultural' hairsyles, it'd be the dark elves, certainly NOT a half-elf.both the dark and high elves consider the half-elf to be..well...little more then servant status. they simply are not worthy of being more then that becuase thier bloodline is tainted by a non-elf. thus, a high elf would try to blend in more with the tier'dal, then they would even consider trying to get into the ayr'dal subculture.I will agree though on the eyepatch, and spectacles. those shouldn't be restricted to gnomes/ratonga.Woad/tattoos...I would probably expand this maybe to humans/halfelves. the concept of a high elf/dark elf getting them is as much out of the question as using a 'lesser' races hairstyle. leave that sort of nonsense to the peasents. and the idea of a high elf child getting orphaned to woodelves is again, a racial tabboo. any koada'dal would take in an orphaned one of thier own before they'd give the fier'dal a chance. that child would have to literally be the only high elf within tens of miles, and have not one single surviving family member left at all.

WeatherMan

08-11-2008, 11:21 PM

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>(1) actually, the lore would state that a high elf that did go down the path of a brusier/monk type would still not do somethign so hideous to thier hair as to shave it off into a mowhawk. thier very culture, despite your obvious betrayal from qeynos to be a bruiser, dictates refinement and elegance. if a high elf brusier were to shave thier head in any manner, they'd probably shave the entire thing, or might have the style that is a single braid of hair. No matter what proffession a Koada'dal chooses, they indeed take great care to not only be the best, but to look the best.They simply don't do the 'wild' hiarstyles. they leave that for the 'common' folk to do. in fact, a high elf woudl probably consider a half-elf with a mohawk haircut as it being a desperate plea for attention, since they obviously have no other quality worthy of gaining attention if they have to go so far as to have an orange mohawk.a koada'dal brawler would not make a statement with thier hairstyle. they'd make a statement by laying you out on your back, (as a bruiser) or through enlightening actions and speech (as a monk). a high elf wouldn't consider a hairstyle a form of 'rebellion'. they proved that enough by leaving thier kin to go to Freeport.and if you think for a second that a Koada'dal would do ANYTHING that would lessen thier standing among elves, especially in a Tier'dal infested city, your out of your mind. in fact, if a high elf did go to fp, that if they chose any other 'cultural' hairsyles, it'd be the dark elves, certainly NOT a half-elf.both the dark and high elves consider the half-elf to be..well...little more then servant status. they simply are not worthy of being more then that becuase thier bloodline is tainted by a non-elf. thus, a high elf would try to blend in more with the tier'dal, then they would even consider trying to get into the ayr'dal subculture.I will agree though on the eyepatch, and spectacles. those shouldn't be restricted to gnomes/ratonga.(2): Woad/tattoos...I would probably expand this maybe to humans/halfelves. the concept of a high elf/dark elf getting them is as much out of the question as using a 'lesser' races hairstyle. leave that sort of nonsense to the peasents. and the idea of a high elf child getting orphaned to woodelves is again, a racial tabboo. any koada'dal would take in an orphaned one of thier own before they'd give the fier'dal a chance. that child would have to literally be the only high elf within tens of miles, and have not one single surviving family member left at all.</blockquote>Right...point by point (I added numbers to your post to make it easier for me): (1): I have to disagree with this. Certainly, there are classes that do not lend to this type of hair-mutilating rebellion - inquisitors, shadowknights, and mages of pretty much any sort come to mind. But a betraying Koada who followed the way of the bruiser (as you indicated) certainly would...and in addition, consider a Koada brigand or assassin - a 'Tasha Yar'-style hairdo, while not approved of in high elven cultural circles, would afford the erstwhile scout type ease of care, as would a crew cut (much as I dislike the idea). In this case, culture must take a back seat to two other considerations. Namely, practicality and (most importantly) the concept the player has for the character.(2): My earlier idea about Koada'Dal tattoos should not be thought of in the terms of a barbarian clan's woads, a wood elf's shroud, or the wild, rebellious tattoos of half-elves. A more appropriate comparison would be a Masonic ring, or a belt buckle device similar to that worn by the Knights of Columbus - this concept of 'societies', especially in light of the corruption of the Renda'Dal, would be a further link back to the Felwithe of yesteryear, which any Koada, even a violent misanthrope like Snowie's bruiserette, would not be so quick to dismiss or distance themselves from - and which even a betrayer would display with no reservation. Wanna be different? Get one of these, because any dimwit can get a pierced <body part> or a multicolored mohawk. These tattoos would actually mean something.To me, this is a heck of lot more 'cultural' than a pile of hair on the noggin - and short of deliberate violence designed to erase it from the character's face (in which case, the attacker may just as well be trying to kill them), it cannot be taken away by any halfwit lunatic with a pair of gardening shears. This 'device' is a tattoo that is applied to the Koada in question. They sit down, close their eyes, and the tattoo artist applies the inks into their ocular region (namely, the area stretching from the lower part of the forehead to the upper part of the cheek) on one side of the face. These tattoos, whatever they are (sword, lightning bolt, crossed staves, the Royal Seal, and so forth) are not 'given' to them - it is something they have earned, whether through effort or by heritage (although the player is selecting the tattoo at creation). So not only must I respectfully disagree with your 'no-tattoo' contention, I think that many instances exist where a high elf would have a tattoo. And while I do not think we will ever see a high elf with a wood elf shroud, the explanation given makes perfect sense to me. Were it up to me, I would allow this expansion of player choice above rigid, imagination-stifling 'lore'.

Rainmare

08-11-2008, 11:49 PM

I'll go with your masonic crest type tattooing for a high elf. that does seem to fit. just that the first thign that came to mind with tattooing, and the given example, implies woads/shroud type things.the hairstyle changes for a proffession, is, frankly, one of the reasons I have a sever dislike for the ARAC concept. but a bruiser has no 'proffesional' reason to get such a wild haricut as a mohawk. in fact, it woudl be seen as a hinderance to have a foot of hair stuck straight out to grab. a bruiser would probably be bald, or keep thier hair relatively short.though, as shown in many works of art related to armored figures, particularly Kitara of Dragonlance, a helm wearing person can still have a decent short looking haircut. I would say that a koada'dal would probably go that route over something like a crewcut. They'd sooner pick a look like Stallone from Rambo then they would Van-Dame from Universal Soldier.

Lodrelhai

08-12-2008, 12:37 AM

There's one major falacy in your arguments; you are imposing cultural mores over individual choice, and there are always individuals who bulk the cultural mores. This is how cultures grow and change. Look around you - how many women wear pants and short hair now? I remember my mom being worried about my development because I didn't like skirts and makeup, now no one thinks twice about it. High elves won't emulate a subordinate race upon whom they look down? I wonder, back in the 1800s, how many people said the same about whites associating with blacks, much less such extreme ideas for the time like interracial marriage. Homosexual acceptance in the US is swinging the same way.For in-game examples, take a look at diety and class choices. When the elves were first created, they worshipped their creator, Tunare. That's it, end of discussion. Other gods might be granted respect, but certainly not worshipped above the Mother of All. As the races split and diversified, some started taking other gods - in EQ1 I Karana, Ro, and either Marr twin were all valid choices for high elf worship. And now it's all up to alignment - heck, with the EQ1 server titles which are a vetran reward, you can claim to be of a god who's not even in-game. And when, in EQ1, did we ever see a high elf monk? Or any fighter besides Paladin? Any healer besides Cleric (modern Templar)? Any scout at all? You're saying that a race which has adapted to this level cultural shift would consider trying a mohawk to be an unforgiveable sin?Can cultural mores keep most people from exploring the full extent of their will and personality? Certainly. But the individual who is willing to face the consequences of challenging those mores has no reason to adhere to them. And a betrayer, who has willingly exiled themselves from that culture, would hardly be stopped from trying a new hair style they are interested in because "my kind doesn't do that." Their kind doesn't betray their own to live side-by-side with their traditional enemies, either. The greater taboo has already been violated. Some will still cling to cultural dressings to sustain a sense of identity, others will reject them wholesale. And some might reject the outer trappings like having the "right" hairstyle while still holding true to the inner core of cultural beliefs.Yes, some very traditional high-elf paladin who worships Tunare and is insulted that the Renda'Dal think his bloodline less than pure may consider those individuals as no better than the lesser races they've mimicked. That's the traditionalist's choice. Just as it is the rebel's choice to ignore or even mock the traditionalist's sneers.

WeatherMan

08-12-2008, 12:39 AM

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>(1) I'll go with your masonic crest type tattooing for a high elf. that does seem to fit. just that the first thign that came to mind with tattooing, and the given example, implies woads/shroud type things.(2) the hairstyle changes for a proffession, is, frankly, one of the reasons I have a sever dislike for the ARAC concept. but a bruiser has no 'proffesional' reason to get such a wild haricut as a mohawk. in fact, it woudl be seen as a hinderance to have a foot of hair stuck straight out to grab. a bruiser would probably be bald, or keep thier hair relatively short.though, as shown in many works of art related to armored figures, particularly Kitara of Dragonlance, a helm wearing person can still have a decent short looking haircut. I would say that a koada'dal would probably go that route over something like a crewcut. They'd sooner pick a look like Stallone from Rambo then they would Van-Dame from Universal Soldier.</blockquote>Again, I'm using numbers.(1): I can see where you would have gotten that impression, and for the record, I should have stated that I was speaking about something different. I will have to agree that a Koada is unlikely to ape the habits of a 'lowly halfbreed' - but then again, player characters are a mercurial bunch.(2): I'll agree with this contention - any sane hand-to-hand fighter (brawler) is unlikely to have a hairdo that affords an enemy a handhold. I made a halfling monk-turned-bruiser, and her hairstyle is the (SOGA) short braid in back - deliberately chosen for the very reason you stated. Well, that and the missus did the same, and they sort of match appearance-wise. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />The Kitiara analogy is well-stated. And I cannot disagree. My problem is many of the weird hairstyles we have now, many of which are identical across multiple races anyways. Any 'cultural hairdos' (such as the exclusive side-loop pigtails of wood elfettes) should reflect that, and not be copied into another race with a different name. Hairdos that all races share should be simple and utilitarian (such as the braid we have now, or the ponytails, crew cuts, and bobs we don't).

Ashlian

08-12-2008, 01:32 AM

I definitely agree that they unfairly limited us in hair and eye color from what was available in EQ1. My half elf in EQ1 had violet eyes, and there is no way by any stretch of the imagination that I could give her violet eyes in EQ2. Given the fact that they allow you to pick a racial heritage for half elves including ANY of the elven races, limitation to a single palette.....an eye color palette that I find doesn't even include a true blue to me or include colors that DO exist in nature for regular humans and makes it difficult to select a color of the right intensity. It's hard to get a good brown or green and I find it very limiting. I really mourned that I couldn't recreate the original Ashlian with the violet eyes! The hair palette is equally limiting given, again, that half elves should be as broad in racial heritage as the various elven and human races they can descend from. I would definitely like to see broader color spectrums for eye and hair color for the races that are more limited currently.

StormQueen

08-12-2008, 08:08 AM

Better hairstyle choices for many races, aye. And did they forget that Halasian men traditionally had varying beard styles? I have no intention of growing either that single or forked braided thing. That's for Dwarves! And speaking of Dwarves, females have really lost some of the uniqueness they had before. 2 weird facial hair styles with no mustache. My paladin would like to look like her ancestress did.Oh, yes, painted-on eyebrows are so wrong. Why not match them to the hair like some of the Human models do? Not overexaggerated like some, but still.....And..........how about stubble for males of many/most races?

Qandor

08-12-2008, 11:02 AM

<cite>Noaani wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Riliszkas@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't care how difficult it is. New armor models please.</blockquote>I would think that if they put all the manpower the used on the skeletal revamp into new armour models, there would be far fewer complaints about the whole topic.</blockquote>And how much manpower did they put into it exactly? We certainly do not know. My gut feeling is that this skeletal revamp thing was never seriously worked upon. It would not take 2 years to realize that the software doesn't work if it was a continously staffed task. The whole crux of the issue was new armor models. We were told that new armor models were too hard to do on the existing skeletons. (great planning there by the original design team for sure).So they floated the skeletal revamp as a solution to this problem but that turned out to be too hard to do also. The skeletal revamp was SoE's invention. Players just wanted more variety in armor and do not particularly care how that is accomplished. So far 4 years has produced zero progress on the issue. They bragged pre-release about how easy it was for them to morph armor across races but post release they sang a different toon. Post release they claimed each piece of armor had to be painstakingly crafted for each race and gender. So which was the truth and which was the lie?

valkry

08-12-2008, 11:32 AM

What I'd like to know is does 'snap on' mean that we could change hair-styles/accessories without having to have a complete make-over (and barber costs)?For example my High Elf is out hunting in her normal 'fighting' appearance gear and her usual hair style (the braid wrapped around her head & a bunch of crazy curls in the back). Then she comes back to the city and its time for a bit of RP with friends. She changes into 'dressy' outfit... Can she snap on a new 'formal up-do' for her hair (without having to change, or not change, her whole appearance)? Likewise, maybe Leeroy's barb is 5 o'clock shadow in the field, but he wants to shave for his wedding, and his Woodie bride would like to let her normally tied back hair, flow loose under the veil. Unless you are a skin-head in real life, most folks can, and will, slightly change their hairstyles over a few days/weeks. We are not forced to wear the same exact style everyday.I could see some stuff being impossible to get; the Erudians' glifs or the 'Tongas' wiskers (if all of the 'Tongas could get them) are stickly racial. It would have to be decided if "tattoos/woad" are actually created by people... and usable by all/most races, or magically created and limited only to those folks who appear to be pure-blooded examples of the race (No, my Human can have woad & tattoos because he is 1/16 Barb on his mother's side & his dad was 3/4 Woodie).But there is no reason why something like hair shouldn't be open to all/most races. (Troll/Kerra/some Tonga girl hair might not work for all, but most females could wear most hair styles.) My Half Elf's family is Dark Elves. You would think that at least once or twice her mother & sister would sit her down, grab a jar full of "Je'Mal's Gnomish Hair Paste" and give her a proper hair style, even if just for a nice family Frostfell dinner.

StormQueen

08-12-2008, 11:46 AM

<cite>valkry wrote:</cite><blockquote>What I'd like to know is does 'snap on' mean that we could change hair-styles/accessories without having to have a complete make-over (and barber costs)?For example my High Elf is out hunting in her normal 'fighting' appearance gear and her usual hair style (the braid wrapped around her head & a bunch of crazy curls in the back). Then she comes back to the city and its time for a bit of RP with friends. She changes into 'dressy' outfit... Can she snap on a new 'formal up-do' for her hair (without having to change, or not change, her whole appearance)? Likewise, maybe Leeroy's barb is 5 o'clock shadow in the field, but he wants to shave for his wedding, and his Woodie bride would like to let her normally tied back hair, flow loose under the veil. Unless you are a skin-head in real life, most folks can, and will, slightly change their hairstyles over a few days/weeks. We are not forced to wear the same exact style everyday.I could see some stuff being impossible to get; the Erudians' glifs or the 'Tongas' wiskers (if all of the 'Tongas could get them) are stickly racial. It would have to be decided if "tattoos/woad" are actually created by people... and usable by all/most races, or magically created and limited only to those folks who appear to be pure-blooded examples of the race (No, my Human can have woad & tattoos because he is 1/16 Barb on his mother's side & his dad was 3/4 Woodie).But there is no reason why something like hair shouldn't be open to all/most races. (Troll/Kerra/some Tonga girl hair might not work for all, but most females could wear most hair styles.) My Half Elf's family is Dark Elves. You would think that at least once or twice her mother & sister would sit her down, grab a jar full of "Je'Mal's Gnomish Hair Paste" and give her a proper hair style, even if just for a nice family Frostfell dinner.</blockquote>Aye, Treissae doesn't like stubble burns. And she does look sweet with her hair down. Many races are missing some hairstyle or other, I have noticed. And some "appearance" type item (snap-on?) for special occasions would be welcomed by not only roleplayers but certain clotheshorses like the one looking out the mirror at me. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> My hair may be tousled and perpetually in my eyes out in the wild, so to speak, but I am actually very fastidious about my appearance/cleanliness. So let me comb back the tangles and look like I spent a few minutes on hygiene before I am seen about town.

FoxeyeVaeltaja

08-12-2008, 02:44 PM

Insofar as the uncharacteristic options (ie. the mohawk on the high elf) are concerned...one solution might be to only allow access to "out of race" options when a character has betrayed to a city other than their starting city. Or perhaps only while they are an exile, if the code doesn't provide a character flag for "has betrayed". I can imagine a "hasAccessToFunkyHairdoesFlag" and an "isAnExileFlag" could be linked without too much hair pulling. Depending on how gnarly the code is. ^_^

RanmaBoyType

08-12-2008, 03:23 PM

I would love some of the fae/arasai hair styles and color choices be made available to my half elf who already is rebel with her lip ring /gaspBlue hair half elves please! (and belly buttons, and belly button rings)

valkry

08-12-2008, 04:32 PM

<cite>Foxeye@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Insofar as the uncharacteristic options (ie. the mohawk on the high elf) are concerned...one solution might be to only allow access to "out of race" options when a character has betrayed to a city other than their starting city. Or perhaps only while they are an exile, if the code doesn't provide a character flag for "has betrayed". I can imagine a "hasAccessToFunkyHairdoesFlag" and an "isAnExileFlag" could be linked without too much hair pulling. Depending on how gnarly the code is. ^_^</blockquote>Or make it a quest (we are everQUEST) to gain access to other races hair-styles. And no, I do not think it should be limited by if you are good or evil. My High Elf 'lock is rather morally "nuetral" instead of good, and the only race she is really prejudice against is High Elves (uppity elitists). Now she couldn't pull off a mowhawk, but quite a few Tier'Dal styles would be fancy enough for her to work.

Snowdonia

08-12-2008, 05:04 PM

Here's an idea. They could tie in hairstyle unlocking based on what racial lore book quest you've completed. Finished the Ary'dal book quest? Welcome to the hair stylings of the Half Elves! Finished the Barbarian book quest? Welcome to the hair stylings of the Barbarians! It could work. We've already got Master Strikes tied into the L&L books. Why not hairstyles? Maybe the Ratonga book could unlock eyepatches and spectacles. Kerran book can unlock piercings. Ogre book can unlock tattoos. Troll book can unlock scars. It could work!

SilkenKidden

08-12-2008, 07:46 PM

I agree with your comments Snowdonia. I'd like to add a bit, just for emphasis. I too would like separate tops and bottoms. i would also like a greater selection of more discrete outfits. I realize a lot of the female players (or people playing females) want the sexah look, but I'd like something a bit more stylish than a plain robe without having to look like a hookah. Can't we have more of a choice here? I'm still looking for a plain black top for my conjuror. The ROK swiftcloth is nice, but trimmed in blue. I would also love some separate pieces in other solid colors. I can't stand the garish prints on the robes. If you are just going recolor some slections, please recolor them all one color or shades of the same color.

shadowedwolf

08-13-2008, 09:59 AM

I'd definatly like to see more hair options opened up, especially for Half Elves. They're upposed to be rebellious "blah blah blah" but they can start anywhere but Neriak; though it seems that atleast a couple have risen to high social standing in Neriak. Seeing as they can start anywhere, I'm sure that they'd adapt their hairstyles accordingly. Faydwer being cut off from the world so long, I'd think that Half Elves starting there probably wouldn't have the two-toned "give me attention" hairstyles. Even if they're city Elves, I'd think that regardless of thier Elven parent that a few, esp. once who are the offspring of a Dark Elf or High Elf would be more conservative in style. And why can't they take after their human side and have facial hair? On an unrelated topic, can anyone tell me WHY Half Elves have the two toned hair w/o the pointing out the "rebellious" nature? Aside from *shameless plug* Valkry's story, The Sisters (on the Travelers Tales forum), I can't find a single explanation for why my Ranger can't have subtle highlights instead of "please shoot me because I stand out" hair.I'd think other races would have adeptive looks too. Some things should remain racial, but with hairstyles... is it unreasonable to think an orphaned/displaced/whatever High Elf raised by/around Half Elves might be a little more liberal in apperance? Or with Dwarves and Barbarians being so friendly with one another, wouldn't they share beard and haircare tips? Uh.. and Human males.... they have some of the ugliest and worst facial hair options in the world. Can't my Inquis have eyebrows and a simple mustache. For the most part, when it comes to facial hair on Humans... If you want decent facial hair it looks like you stood to close to a fire and burned off your eyebrows. And if you want eyebrows, you get teh ungroomed beard from hell. Of coarse, there's the other option of, "I can groom my beard but my eyebrows are on drugs." *shudder*Another thing Snow mentioned that I really liked was armor. It'd be nice to see some new molds... or at the very least, some single color sets. There are a few single colored armors out there but the only ones I can recall offhand are the crafted stuff for plate wearers. Panty lines don't just affect the formal ensamble either. Bloomer apperance leggings like the AQ swashy armor let everyone know what you wear into battle./rant off

Vexy

08-13-2008, 10:33 AM

I like the idea to the quest allowing new styles, but I think it would be unfair to allow each class to have ANY hairstyle. I'm all for NEW styles, but leave mow-hawks to half-elves, those big pigtail handle bars to wood elves, the fancy smancy styles to High elves. Like I mentioned before, if you open up every single hair option to each class, we're eventually going to have ONE race. I think we're asking a lot too. I haven't seen a game with this much customization. VG and WoW have, less than 10 options for there hair, a face option, not individual features, but just an entire cartoon-y face, where as we have the ability to move our eyebrows slighly angled, or make our noises pointed, or thicker/thinner, along with much much more.And sure you can say your high elf betrayed, and is now a rebel...But the majority aren't. (Not using stats or anything here, could be wrong, atleast on my server, I haven't seen a HUGE amount that were betrayed) If you're that concerned with a tattoo or something, maybe put it in your bio. I know with Vexy, my main, it says in her biography that she's got a tattoo of her last name Cross on the back of her neck. There would be absolutely no way to input that in the game, whatsoever. Please, again don't get me wrong, I REALLY REALLY would love to see new armor/hair/high-freaking-heels maybe; but I wouldn't want to lose race individuality, and to me, the separate hair styles is a form of their individuality.

Mr. Dawki

08-13-2008, 11:48 AM

Formal requests in lieu of the skeleton revamp being scrapped Could someone point me in to the post that actualy stated it was scrapped. I never expected it in my lifetime but I never saw a word that it was scrapped.

ZexisStryfe

08-13-2008, 03:43 PM

I don't know how many of you know me, but I am the individual what has been getting info on the new expansion by looking at the files pushed to the client every month with the LU patches. In doing that I think I can give you some insight as to which of these are possible and which aren't and possibly what they mean by "snap-ons".First off, sharing of woads, tattoos and scars will not happen. These items are not "additions" to models like hair or fae wings, they are actually part of the model skin itself. So, for a model with a plain, no tattoo skin and also 8 tattoo patterns, there are actually 32 separate model skins (18 for reg models and 18 for SOGA models) for those models, not 4 like you would expect. Hair (including whiskers), crests and piercings, however are "additions" and could be expanded to all the models.This is absolutely how it works, so they would have to create new skins for every model with the new options. I don't see that happening.Now, regarding snap-ons... this is only a guess from what I have seen them adding to appearances.dat.Back in the day (RoK and before) when a new armor set was added, this was how the appearance data was split up-653 accessories/wearable_items/plate/uncommon/medium/chest654 accessories/wearable_items/plate/uncommon/medium/feet655 accessories/wearable_items/plate/uncommon/medium/forearms656 accessories/wearable_items/plate/uncommon/medium/hands657 accessories/wearable_items/plate/uncommon/medium/head658 accessories/wearable_items/plate/uncommon/medium/legs659 accessories/wearable_items/plate/uncommon/medium/shouldersThis is, quite obviously, the list of visible parts of the armor, each one a separate model. Recently however, this showed up. It a second entry for a similar type of armor:8533 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/chest8534 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/feet8535 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/forearms8536 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/hands8537 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/head8538 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/left8539 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/legs8540 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/legs_noskirt8541 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/right8542 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/shoulders_nopauldrons8543 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/shoulders_pauldron03_both8544 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/shoulders_pauldron03_left8545 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/shoulders_pauldron03_right8546 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/shoulders_pauldron05_both8547 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/shoulders_pauldron05_left8548 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/shoulders_pauldron05_right8549 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/skirt8550 accessories/wearable_items01/_exp00/heavy_plate/plain_white_sun_symbol/upperchestAs you can see, it has the same basic parts of the armor (chest, feet, forearms, etc) along with an upperchest and no_skirt option, and lots of different shoulder pauldrons, separated into left and right pieces. It is my guess that by doing this they would be able to create "Pauldrons of the White Sun" by taking shoulders_pauldron03_left and shoulders_pauldron03_right or just shoulders_pauldron03_both. They could also make "Off-Balanced Pauldrons of the White Sun" and pair shoulders_pauldron03_left with shoulders_pauldron05_right (assuming the are different sizes). By doing this they can create several different styles of armor by "snapping" them all together.Again the snap-on stuff is just a guess but it seems logical.

Xanrn

08-13-2008, 03:50 PM

Huh nice find.I would request all Class Hats from KoS are unlocked for all Classes, exactly like the Monk has been for years and now the Bruisers.An I want me damm Kilt back ya bunch of lassies!Gimmie the Tartan back!

Cassea

08-13-2008, 08:51 PM

<cite>Mr. Dawkins wrote:</cite><blockquote>Formal requests in lieu of the skeleton revamp being scrapped Could someone point me in to the post that actualy stated it was scrapped. I never expected it in my lifetime but I never saw a word that it was scrapped.</blockquote>Here it is:<a href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/wiki/Dev_Chat_July_31_2008" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2.allakhazam.com/wiki/Dev_...at_July_31_2008</a>Bludwyng: Labratt asks, Are there any updates on the skeletal model changes?Kirstie: The skeletal revamp has been through a lot of iterations internally on the EQII team and is now a bit of a misnomer. The original technology that we had planned to use didn't work out as we expected (software, who knew).Kirstie: And we are also being careful not to drastically change the character models. We don't want anyone to log in one day and not recognize their favorite character.Kirstie: What we are focusing on now is ways to customize the look of your character with what we're referring to as "snap ons" that will change your characters profile or silhouette.Kirstie: There are also a few other plans to enhance the look of characters that we'll be talking about more once we are more confident that they will work within the EQII framework

Ashlian

08-13-2008, 09:35 PM

As for class hats, I have to confess I've nearly betrayed my troubador to a dirge just because I really like that beret....and the dirge color choices....so much better than the troub class hat. My fae looks like an idiot in the troubie class hat with her ears sticking up, it's perched way up on her head. Since they DID give away the bruiser and monk "class" graphics for hats, I can see where they might consider opening up other class hats, perhaps tweaked at least a little to look a bit different, but the main work on the class hats was to accomodate (or not) all the hairstyles, especially in the case of the circlets like the warden and fury hat. How many of us would KILL for some kind of circlet, and might it not be possible to do something with those basic graphics, just removing the leaves and adding in plain bands of some sort, or even a glowing ring of light....anything along those lines would be awesome.

Vexy

08-13-2008, 09:42 PM

<cite>Ashlian@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>As for class hats, I have to confess I've nearly betrayed my troubador to a dirge just because I really like that beret....and the dirge color choices....so much better than the troub class hat. My fae looks like an idiot in the troubie class hat with her ears sticking up, it's perched way up on her head. Since they DID give away the bruiser and monk "class" graphics for hats, I can see where they might consider opening up other class hats, perhaps tweaked at least a little to look a bit different, but the main work on the class hats was to accomodate (or not) all the hairstyles, especially in the case of the circlets like the warden and fury hat. How many of us would KILL for some kind of circlet, and might it not be possible to do something with those basic graphics, just removing the leaves and adding in plain bands of some sort, or even a glowing ring of light....anything along those lines would be awesome.</blockquote>I would be horribly disappointed if they opened up class hats to everyone. Yes they did it to monks and bruisers, and they were outraged. It makes no sense for a Warden to be wearing the monk hat. It's specifically CLASS based. If you don't like your class hat, don't get it. Get another one. Don't take away another classes defining hat.

Cassea

08-13-2008, 11:03 PM

I can just see it now....Devs: The players are demanding a new graphics engine because the game runs like !@#$% on new computers and vid cardsSOE: How much money will that cost?Devs: Well 5% of our profit for one year give or takeSOE: Will this gain us any new subscribers... IE additional income?Devs: Well we anticipate that it may gain a few but mainly it would keep our existing customers happySOE: Our studies have shown that 90% of those would would have left EQ2 have already done so and as such this graphics revamp is not cost effectiveDevs: But we promised them a new skeletal system and changes to the graphics to use their new hardwareSOE: Just tell them it would not work... make something up... anyone who plays these stupid games will believe anything... wait a minute... make some new graphics... maybe some new hat graphics and that will shut them up.... yeah that's the ticket... new hats for all!*smiles*

Snowdonia

08-14-2008, 07:42 AM

Mr Dawkins,If you read the second post in this thread and clicked the link you would be directed to the transcript where Kirstie states there will be no "skeleton revamp".Vexy,No offense, but it seems your only reason for not wanting things to be opened up is the fact things would change. No one would be forcing you yourself to change your hair to some other style nor would anyone else be forced. You being so adamant about not wanting things to change is proof in itself that not EVERYONE would be running around looking like "ONE race." Just because it is there, as an option, doesn't mean every person is going to partake in it (as you've shown us with your personal opinion on the subject).You also keep contradicting yourself. First you say we'd have one race because no one would keep their own racial hairstyle, then go on to state that the majority don't betray or become rebellious thereby insinuating that there would be quite a few people out there who would stick to the current conformity.There are also a LOT of games out there with just as many or more customization options as EQII. EQII is not the be all end all of customization of player characters. Heck, the game that someone linked in another thread called "A Perfect World" has 100 times more customization that EQII could dream of. We're only asking for a small part of that that is already available within the game, just locked for use by a small percentage.Vulkoor,That's good to know and as I've been stating, woads and shrouds were never part of the list anyways. It sucks about scars and the possible addition of tattoos though but I can concede there isn't much we can do about that unless they want to add the options in when they go about fixing our panty lines and belly buttons. *grin*Cassea,I'm really wanting to keep this post constructive and on topic without it degrading into that sort of disrespect so could we please leave it out? I'm sure we'd all appreciate it.EDIT: Who knew two little letters to mean so much (contracting.. contradicting... bah!)

WeatherMan

08-14-2008, 09:05 AM

<cite>Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Vexy,No offense, but it seems your only reason for not wanting things to be opened up is the fact things would change. No one would be forcing you yourself to change your hair to some other style nor would anyone else be forced. You being so adamant about not wanting things to change is proof in itself that not EVERYONE would be running around looking like "ONE race." Just because it is there, as an option, doesn't mean every person is going to partake in it (as you've shown us with your personal opinion on the subject).You also keep contracting yourself. First you say we'd have one race because no one would keep their own racial hairstyle, then go on to state that the majority don't betray or become rebellious thereby insinuating that there would be quite a few people out there who would stick to the current conformity.There are also a LOT of games out there with just as many or more customization options as EQII. EQII is not the be all end all of customization of player characters. Heck, the game that someone linked in another thread called "A Perfect World" has 100 times more customization that EQII could dream of. We're only asking for a small part of that that is already available within the game, just locked for use by a small percentage. Vulkoor,That's good to know and as I've been stating, woads and shrouds were never part of the list anyways. It sucks about scars and the possible addition of tattoos though but I can concede there isn't much we can do about that unless they want to add the options in when they go about fixing our panty lines and belly buttons. *grin*</blockquote>What I've noticed (and that it seems many have not) is that a lot of the 'unique cultural hairstyles' are anything but unique. They have a different name when placed on members of different races, but it is inarguably the exact same style. A French braid is a French braid, regardless of the ethnicity of the person wearing it. So is a ponytail, a crew cut, and corn rows. But apart from 'bald' and 'braids', the game takes us on a wild culturo-linguistic joyride when naming hairstyles that are maddeningly identical regardless of who wears it. So I would respectfully submit that any fears of people becoming 'identical' are misplaced and blown much out of proportion, owing to the fact that the hairstyles have been that way for years, and have not yet brought the Curse of Homogeneous Appearance crashing down on us. They need to unlock all the hairstyles for all the models, and let us take it from there. Why shouldn't Snowie's bruser have a mohawk? I think it would look ridiculous, sure, but that is a matter of my opinion, and that's where it will stay. She should have that choice. Period.I have a suggestion - and it likely won't be very popular with many people, but I can honestly see no reason why it shouldn't happen. Now that the definitive brawler hats and leathers (gis) are universally available, the rest need to be made equally accessible for those who would like a particular look.Why? For one, the brawler look was the most definitive, without question. But SOE caved, and they got their gis. Mind you, I do not blame the non-brawlers at all - who could, with such an otherwise excreable array of clothing options? And brawler hats are now...well...not brawler hats anymore, not really. Sure, one variation of it is 'monk and bruiser only', but that is a fairly hollow comfort, if one at all.So why, I honestly ask the gentle readers, should that (let's call them what they are) disenfranchised brawler not be able to wear, say, a brigand-style hat? Not the brigand hat, obviously, but one cut in the exact same style, with cosmetic differences? Maybe call it the Duster of the Jarsath Swifttail, to go along with the Gi of the same name? Personally, I like this idea. A lot. And let's be honest here - it wouldn't be that difficult at all, because it only requires something that SOE has proven themselves fabulously adept at doing - re-coloring and re-texturing. There would be no significant investment involved or required, just a few hours of programming, and viola! Instant expansion of headgear options.These are just things that could be done now, with little effort/investment in time or resources.Edit: Spelling

Cassea

08-14-2008, 01:23 PM

<cite>Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cassea,I'm really wanting to keep this post constructive and on topic without it degrading into that sort of disrespect so could we please leave it out? I'm sure we'd all appreciate it.</blockquote>Was not meant to be personal but after reading it again I can see that some might not get the humor. Sorry for the sarcasm but I really hope that SOE does not think that tossing us a few minor bones will allow them to pass on what needs to be done. This was more my point - a point poorly made in a sacastic tone.

Cassea

08-14-2008, 01:59 PM

Just a few "non-sarcastic" thoughts <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />1. Why is there any race/class specific dress? What stops me, for example, from putting on a hat I find on the ground? It may look silly, it may look dumb but I can still wear it. I fail to see any logic in having certain clothing that seems to be magically blocked from certain people <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />The real answer lies in that fact that not every item fits every class/race. Some are similar enought to allow this but others do not as the item would not line up properly and such. This was the real reason for the new skeleton system so that every toon was built the same to allow armor/items to fit on the same skeleton by just changing sizes of the item. I suspect that the reason the skeleton system would not work is that they could not fogure out how to adapt all the old armor without redoing everything from scratch. They probably have been working on programs to adapt old stuff to the new system and just could not get it to work. You see that want a new skeleton system for "future" armor. They did not want to have to redo the entire games armor system from scratch. My guess <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />2. Why can't we change our hair to look like any possibility in the game? See above. Why can't I braid my hair like an elf or do anything I want? Once again is there some magic involved that that messes up my hair if I do it in a style I'm not supposed to?While on the subject of hair... why can't we change superficial things as much as we want with a small fee? Why can't we change our hair daily at a hair stylist in game daily if we wanted to? EQ1 even allow you to do this as much as you want not. Why not EQ2?3. Right now it really sucks to create new armor for EQ2. The human type races are easy because they are basically the same model with different add-ons and at different sizes. You create some armor and it gets resized to fit. The other races like the frogs, ogres and such need to have their armor done from scratch so any time you have a specific "class" based armor you need to have different models based on the races.What I find funny (or sad) is that the much older EQ1 was able to put in a new skeletal system into that game. What about EQ2 prevents this?

Zorastiz

08-14-2008, 02:18 PM

As someone who plays an Iksar I am at a loss as to how any of the proposed changes and or additions would improve my somewhat poor appearance.Different colored scales? Not much to offer my race it seems, the only thing I would like (as a Necro) is more clothing choices without having to do 50k faction with someone or another.I don't know really, I can't be as detailed as some of you are but everytime I come back to this thread all I can think of is my Iksar in a robe wondering how will SOE put something that will work on this character.

ZexisStryfe

08-14-2008, 04:21 PM

<cite>Cassea wrote:</cite><blockquote>While on the subject of hair... why can't we change superficial things as much as we want with a small fee? Why can't we change our hair daily at a hair stylist in game daily if we wanted to? EQ1 even allow you to do this as much as you want not. Why not EQ2?</blockquote>We can, they are called barbers and are in every major city zone.

Cassea

08-14-2008, 05:32 PM

<cite>Vulkoor@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cassea wrote:</cite><blockquote>While on the subject of hair... why can't we change superficial things as much as we want with a small fee? Why can't we change our hair daily at a hair stylist in game daily if we wanted to? EQ1 even allow you to do this as much as you want not. Why not EQ2?</blockquote>We can, they are called barbers and are in every major city zone.</blockquote>Well color me embarased <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Will look for them tonight.

Qandor

08-15-2008, 06:14 AM

One thing I find curious about this thread. The whole point of the skeletal revamp was to allow for more variety in armor and clothing. That was the crux of the revamp. The addition of belly buttons, more hair styles, nose rings and the like, although nice, does nothing to address the funadamental issue, namely, we currently have the same armor and robe models we had at launch. You are what you wear. Much of character customization is obliterated by gear we don anyway. You cannot take your eye off the ball. We need more variety in gear.

SilkenKidden

08-15-2008, 06:46 AM

If this is the beginning of a "wish list" in lieu of the skeleton revamp, I'd like to add something else to it. Age, The only race that I know of where now get an age option is human. All that does is make the neck look a little dark or rough. I'd like to be able to make my character look at least middle aged if not ancient.

valkry

08-15-2008, 12:28 PM

<cite>Silken@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>If this is the beginning of a "wish list" in lieu of the skeleton revamp, I'd like to add something else to it.Age, The only race that I know of where now get an age option is human. All that does is make the neck look a little dark or rough.I'd like to be able to make my character look at least middle aged if not ancient. </blockquote>Actually I believe Barbarians, Gnomes, and Halflings also have the aged option. And yes it is mostly the neck, but the fleshy part under the cheek-bones, also 'hollows' out a bit, and I think you get a bit of aging around the eyes (dark circles?).I'm not surprized that quite a lot of other races do NOT get a middle-aged or elderly option. Four of the races are Elvish... so as part of that Elvish 'timelessness' no wrinkles for the 'Dal folk. Fae/As, well they are just wee fay-folk, so have the same anti-aging issues as the Elves. For the animal based races... The mammals could get a bit more grey in their fur, grizzling around the muzzle, but it's not like you could see wrinkles or age spots under the fur. The reptiles/anphibian races are going to 'show' age like the other races. A lizard will shed/molt an old skin, so you can't tell how old their age by their skin, you would have to judge by their body and or frill/horn size (which is a difficult game mechanic to work, unless the player is going to the barber periodically & slowly increasing the height of their toon). I suppose you could put a 'snap-on' in the system to make a lizards' scales cloudy/muted, then remove the snap-on to show that the shed is over.So we are left with the big boys & girls. Sorry to the Trolls out there, but I can't really imagine, other then having extra-scars, who you might be able to tell a Trolls' age from looking at them... blotchy, discolored, wrinkly skin...can't even use a girlie troll's figure to guess her age. I'm stumped on how you would show Troll age. Orges could use the same aging mechanism as the Humans/Barb/Gnome/Halfings, but they are the only race that could use thatexisting mechanic that I can think of.

Vooz

08-15-2008, 01:41 PM

Can we change the way rats WALK? no run, run animation is ok, but walk... they look liek down kids trying to sneak behind granma to take a cookie. TK

Snowdonia

08-15-2008, 05:29 PM

Qandor, While that's true, the model was still going to change, event slightly. One of the reasons that humans males can have hairstyles from both SOGA and regular models is because of what they worked into the model to accommodate using it as a base for the Sarnak model. I will stand by my guns on this in that if they could do it for human males, they can can do it for the other races and sexes. And armor structure is on the list as well as all the other stuff. But all of the things I have listed in that list were things people have asked and begged for since I've been playing and prolly long before that but were always given the excuse "until the skeleton revamp goes in, none of this stuff will happen" or some variation of. No skeleton revamp, no more offhand comments to throw around to instantly revoke the idea, hence the list. "Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

Eshaye

11-05-2008, 11:46 AM

<cite>Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Qandor, While that's true, the model was still going to change, event slightly. One of the reasons that humans males can have hairstyles from both SOGA and regular models is because of what they worked into the model to accommodate using it as a base for the Sarnak model. I will stand by my guns on this in that if they could do it for human males, they can can do it for the other races and sexes. And armor structure is on the list as well as all the other stuff. But all of the things I have listed in that list were things people have asked and begged for since I've been playing and prolly long before that but were always given the excuse "until the skeleton revamp goes in, none of this stuff will happen" or some variation of. No skeleton revamp, no more offhand comments to throw around to instantly revoke the idea, hence the list. "Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light."</blockquote>Well I made a search on belly buttons and found this awesome thread.About the bolded part in the quote; are you kidding me? >< I would absolutely love it if we could get more hairstyles and especially having SOGA hair for my cute wood elf. Now the SOGA models themselves I don't really like, except for elven males, but the hair is gorgeous.I also do not understand why it has taken the team so long to add something as simple as a dot on our tummies.. I understand it takes a lot longer to update these things then we players realize, however I have worked with textures and models before and I know this would be an easy fix.... So please, please just open up the texture file in photoshop, and paint us a belly button. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Nakaru-Nitepaw

11-05-2008, 10:00 PM

I'm happy to know the Warden Class hat (leaf crown) doesn't take away my Ratonga's Whiskers.

Rhak

11-06-2008, 06:48 PM

<cite>Eshaye wrote:</cite><blockquote>So please, please just open up the texture file in photoshop, and paint us a belly button. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I thought you knew by now that showing 'skin' in EQ2 was a bad thing, and/or could cause Sony to raise the ESRB rating and would cause all kinds of account cancelations and other needless things that I keep putting into this sentence to make it sound even more absurd.That said - while it would be an easy enough thing to do, you'd have to have clothing that actually showed it off in the first place. Why change the underlying texture if nobody is going to see it?

Snowdonia

11-06-2008, 07:25 PM

<cite>Rhakos@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>That said - while it would be an easy enough thing to do, you'd have to have clothing that actually showed it off in the first place. Why change the underlying texture if nobody is going to see it?</blockquote>And that's the thing, we DO have clothing that shows off our middrifts in game. The Formal Ensemble, now in 4 color varieties obtained in 4 different ways, is but one. Gis are another one. The white and gold dress from the city merchant and the brown outfit from the tradeskill merchant are two others. Not to mention the males who can now go bare chested due to the Imperceptable armor set. And the thing is, these armor types are the most popularly worn across the population of Norrath.

Firecracker

11-07-2008, 01:49 AM

<cite>Cassea wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vulkoor@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cassea wrote:</cite><blockquote>While on the subject of hair... why can't we change superficial things as much as we want with a small fee? Why can't we change our hair daily at a hair stylist in game daily if we wanted to? EQ1 even allow you to do this as much as you want not. Why not EQ2?</blockquote>We can, they are called barbers and are in every major city zone.</blockquote>Well color me embarased <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Will look for them tonight.</blockquote>This 'barbar' has you log to character select to change this for 1 gold and to me that is not what I am wanting. I am wanting 'wigs' instead so that I can switch back and fourth in matter of few seconds without having to log out.

Eshaye

11-07-2008, 03:56 PM

<cite>Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rhakos@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>That said - while it would be an easy enough thing to do, you'd have to have clothing that actually showed it off in the first place. Why change the underlying texture if nobody is going to see it?</blockquote>And that's the thing, we DO have clothing that shows off our middrifts in game. The Formal Ensemble, now in 4 color varieties obtained in 4 different ways, is but one. Gis are another one. The white and gold dress from the city merchant and the brown outfit from the tradeskill merchant are two others. Not to mention the males who can now go bare chested due to the Imperceptable armor set. And the thing is, these armor types are the most popularly worn across the population of Norrath.</blockquote>Quoted for emphasis.IF our clothes did not show our midrifts, I wouldn't care if the textures had no belly button. But they do, I'm actually switching to my arasai as my main most probably because I really want that purple formal gown, which on my wood elf would just look, odd.This is a very simple thing but to some people it is somewhat important. I don't raid or group much, I don't care for loot either. I'm a quester and crafter and a huge aesthetic buff when it comes to games. I like my character to look good and have choices in customizing him/her. There's already lots of choice in the game which is why I play it, but the lack of a belly button seems like such a silly and small thing to disregard for so long, I don't get it and I really wish the devs would look into it.No it's not something that would have required immediate attention, but after SOGA came in and after so many years afterwards you would think such a small request might have been granted. I understand why it would take the other cosmetic options years to get around to doing, like more hairstyles especially if they need to adjust the head meshes. But a simple painted dot.... Come on! We know you can do that! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

WeatherMan

11-08-2008, 12:58 AM

<cite>Firecracker@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cassea wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vulkoor@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cassea wrote:</cite><blockquote>While on the subject of hair... why can't we change superficial things as much as we want with a small fee? Why can't we change our hair daily at a hair stylist in game daily if we wanted to? EQ1 even allow you to do this as much as you want not. Why not EQ2?</blockquote>We can, they are called barbers and are in every major city zone.</blockquote>Well color me embarased <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Will look for them tonight.</blockquote>This 'barbar' has you log to character select to change this for 1 gold and to me that is not what I am wanting. I am wanting 'wigs' instead so that I can switch back and fourth in matter of few seconds without having to log out.</blockquote>QFEIt would be a mistake to think that what is being asked for is another hairstyle choice from the barber - which is most certainly not the case. What is before the house is 'a hairstyle anyone can wear'. How? Simple - make it something that can be dropped in the head slot on the appearance tab. Instant hairdo.This would make it palatable for people like me to play an erudite...they might actually take a step towards resembling the erudite scions of yesteryear rather than something out of a B-grade science-fiction movie. Granted, wigs would look odd (to say the least) on a ratonga (which I play) or kerra (which I refuse to play), but why shouldn't the option be there?This would be the perfect opportunity to introduce those 'universal' hairstyles - basically, the logical choices from the real world that people want, but were never given. The foremost one that comes to mind is a full head of straight hair that just hangs down the back/over the shoulder - maybe to mid-back (or longer). How about (for the ladies) putting the hair up in a matronly-like bun? Well, I suppose guys could wear it too, but...ehhh. Bob cuts? Long ponytails? Crew cuts? Princess Leia cinnabuns? There are so many that make a lot more sense than some of the bizarre weirdness that typify available hairstyles - and they'd likely be better-received. I mean, one option for human males is a comb-over, for the love of a duck. Even Assassin Vamir in the Outpost of the Overlord makes fun of this hairstyle - when a ratonga can make a snide remark about human hair, you know something needs to be changed, and it isn't the ratonga.And for pity's sake, if this idea is implemented, please don't make it something out of LoN. The Classless Hats...I can almost see the reasoning...almost....not quite, but almost. Apart from wanting to make a big pile of cash, that is. But wigs? Please don't do that to us. Please.

Ashlian

11-08-2008, 04:04 PM

<cite>WeatherMan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Firecracker@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cassea wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vulkoor@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cassea wrote:</cite><blockquote>While on the subject of hair... why can't we change superficial things as much as we want with a small fee? Why can't we change our hair daily at a hair stylist in game daily if we wanted to? EQ1 even allow you to do this as much as you want not. Why not EQ2?</blockquote>We can, they are called barbers and are in every major city zone.</blockquote>Well color me embarased <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Will look for them tonight.</blockquote>This 'barbar' has you log to character select to change this for 1 gold and to me that is not what I am wanting. I am wanting 'wigs' instead so that I can switch back and fourth in matter of few seconds without having to log out.</blockquote>QFEIt would be a mistake to think that what is being asked for is another hairstyle choice from the barber - which is most certainly not the case. What is before the house is 'a hairstyle anyone can wear'. How? Simple - make it something that can be dropped in the head slot on the appearance tab. Instant hairdo.This would make it palatable for people like me to play an erudite...they might actually take a step towards resembling the erudite scions of yesteryear rather than something out of a B-grade science-fiction movie. Granted, wigs would look odd (to say the least) on a ratonga (which I play) or kerra (which I refuse to play), but why shouldn't the option be there?This would be the perfect opportunity to introduce those 'universal' hairstyles - basically, the logical choices from the real world that people want, but were never given. The foremost one that comes to mind is a full head of straight hair that just hangs down the back/over the shoulder - maybe to mid-back (or longer). How about (for the ladies) putting the hair up in a matronly-like bun? Well, I suppose guys could wear it too, but...ehhh. Bob cuts? Long ponytails? Crew cuts? Princess Leia cinnabuns? There are so many that make a lot more sense than some of the bizarre weirdness that typify available hairstyles - and they'd likely be better-received. I mean, one option for human males is a comb-over, for the love of a duck. Even Assassin Vamir in the Outpost of the Overlord makes fun of this hairstyle - when a ratonga can make a snide remark about human hair, you know something needs to be changed, and it isn't the ratonga.And for pity's sake, if this idea is implemented, please don't make it something out of LoN. The Classless Hats...I can almost see the reasoning...almost....not quite, but almost. Apart from wanting to make a big pile of cash, that is. But wigs? Please don't do that to us. Please.</blockquote>I couldn't see the Classless Hats except for making money. I've nearly betrayed my troubie to dirge just to get the dirge class hat, which I think is really cute on her, as opposed to the troubador one which sits way too high up on her head and looks like it has to be stuck there with glue. I love the swashie hat, too. I'm one of the people who'd advocate opening up the class hats with slight modifications, as they did the monk and bruiser ones. But to put the option in LoN while telling the rest of us that class hats are sacrosanct? Please.

11-08-2008, 07:38 PM

<cite>Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>New emotes - If an Arasai can do an emo dance, and a Fae can do a ballet, why should every other race be forced to do the jitterbug? Every race should have their own dancing style added in addition to the jitterbug dance that every race should get as an alternate. I'm sure actions for the other emotes that currently have none would also be welcome.</blockquote>agreed. every race should have their own dance. Also the sarnak have some weird dance that reminds me of karate.

Wyrmypops

11-08-2008, 09:04 PM

The Sarnak dance is a Maori thing rather than Karate. You'll see the New Zealand Rubgy team performing it before every match.I'd love racial dances though.And the extra hair styles. Be they added to hair options or accessible as appearance headgear.And with the addition of some actual new item graphics in TSO, rather than the crusty old stuff repainted repeatedly, I'd love a few racial designs (solid Dwarven hobnailed boots, fancy Elven tiaras, etc), and designs evocative of areas of the world rich in imagery (lava designs from Sol Ro, leafy gear from Kelethin, angular cut cloths from Freeport opposed to rounded designs from Qeynos). Like with the new TSO items, a bit of work in creating them could provide a wealth of more exciting graphic options, as they too could be repainted repeatedly too. But least it'd be variety, spice of life of an all.

Snowdonia

11-08-2008, 09:34 PM

<cite>Olik@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also the sarnak have some weird dance that reminds me of karate.</blockquote>Actually, that's called the Haka and it's a traditional war dance (challenge) of the Maori people. I was stoked when I first saw the Sarnak used it as their signature /dance.<a href="http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=kd0kDxP04eI">Here</a> are a <a href="http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=cle20lQg0Qs&feature=related">few links</a> to show you <a href="http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ETenUDXThGs&feature=related">what I mean</a>. Any Rugby game that the All Blacks play they perform a version of the Haka. It's quite an intimidating dance.

Froed20

11-09-2008, 04:17 PM

<cite>WeatherMan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Firecracker@Kithicor wrote:</cite>QFEIt would be a mistake to think that what is being asked for is another hairstyle choice from the barber - which is most certainly not the case. What is before the house is 'a hairstyle anyone can wear'. How? Simple - make it something that can be dropped in the head slot on the appearance tab. Instant hairdo.This would make it palatable for people like me to play an erudite...they might actually take a step towards resembling the erudite scions of yesteryear rather than something out of a B-grade science-fiction movie. Granted, wigs would look odd (to say the least) on a ratonga (which I play) or kerra (which I refuse to play), but why shouldn't the option be there?This would be the perfect opportunity to introduce those 'universal' hairstyles - basically, the logical choices from the real world that people want, but were never given. The foremost one that comes to mind is a full head of straight hair that just hangs down the back/over the shoulder - maybe to mid-back (or longer). How about (for the ladies) putting the hair up in a matronly-like bun? Well, I suppose guys could wear it too, but...ehhh. Bob cuts? Long ponytails? Crew cuts? Princess Leia cinnabuns? There are so many that make a lot more sense than some of the bizarre weirdness that typify available hairstyles - and they'd likely be better-received. I mean, one option for human males is a comb-over, for the love of a duck. Even Assassin Vamir in the Outpost of the Overlord makes fun of this hairstyle - when a ratonga can make a snide remark about human hair, you know something needs to be changed, and it isn't the ratonga.And for pity's sake, if this idea is implemented, please don't make it something out of LoN. The Classless Hats...I can almost see the reasoning...almost....not quite, but almost. Apart from wanting to make a big pile of cash, that is. But wigs? Please don't do that to us. Please.</blockquote>Honestly, I don't see how they could make wigs work with how things currently are. The fact is that a LOT of the races simply would look too strange with wigs. Half of the races in the game are some form of animal, and a lot of them have strange head shapes. The best thing they could do would be to introduce more hairstyles in the models themselves. Get some more "natural" styles in there that don't quite defy the laws of gravity and don't look like playdough, and maybe add some extra accessory options such as scars, eyepatches, glasses, and jewlery. Also, I like what someone said about opening up the color pallete a bit more, it may not be realistic but it'd help customization a bit more.

Firecracker

11-09-2008, 09:12 PM

<cite>Fayle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>WeatherMan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Firecracker@Kithicor wrote:</cite>QFEIt would be a mistake to think that what is being asked for is another hairstyle choice from the barber - which is most certainly not the case. What is before the house is 'a hairstyle anyone can wear'. How? Simple - make it something that can be dropped in the head slot on the appearance tab. Instant hairdo.This would make it palatable for people like me to play an erudite...they might actually take a step towards resembling the erudite scions of yesteryear rather than something out of a B-grade science-fiction movie. Granted, wigs would look odd (to say the least) on a ratonga (which I play) or kerra (which I refuse to play), but why shouldn't the option be there?This would be the perfect opportunity to introduce those 'universal' hairstyles - basically, the logical choices from the real world that people want, but were never given. The foremost one that comes to mind is a full head of straight hair that just hangs down the back/over the shoulder - maybe to mid-back (or longer). How about (for the ladies) putting the hair up in a matronly-like bun? Well, I suppose guys could wear it too, but...ehhh. Bob cuts? Long ponytails? Crew cuts? Princess Leia cinnabuns? There are so many that make a lot more sense than some of the bizarre weirdness that typify available hairstyles - and they'd likely be better-received. I mean, one option for human males is a comb-over, for the love of a duck. Even Assassin Vamir in the Outpost of the Overlord makes fun of this hairstyle - when a ratonga can make a snide remark about human hair, you know something needs to be changed, and it isn't the ratonga.And for pity's sake, if this idea is implemented, please don't make it something out of LoN. The Classless Hats...I can almost see the reasoning...almost....not quite, but almost. Apart from wanting to make a big pile of cash, that is. But wigs? Please don't do that to us. Please.</blockquote>Honestly, I don't see how they could make wigs work with how things currently are. The fact is that a LOT of the races simply would look too strange with wigs. Half of the races in the game are some form of animal, and a lot of them have strange head shapes. The best thing they could do would be to introduce more hairstyles in the models themselves. Get some more "natural" styles in there that don't quite defy the laws of gravity and don't look like playdough, and maybe add some extra accessory options such as scars, eyepatches, glasses, and jewlery. Also, I like what someone said about opening up the color pallete a bit more, it may not be realistic but it'd help customization a bit more.</blockquote>You may have point for I wasn't thinking there might be some races who couldn't wear them but what is wrong with with making them for humans, elfs, gnomes, halflings, faes and dwarfts? I am sure if done, there can be something for the other animal type races to balance it out I am sure.or they could just open up all hair styles for the races who can wear them as option. So either way the animal type races will get left out so 'wigs' isn't all that bad of an idea either if you ask me.

Lethe5683

11-09-2008, 11:22 PM

<cite>Firecracker@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am sure if done, there can be something for the other animal type races to balance it out I am sure.</blockquote>Yes! Make it so ratongas have options to have wiskers with any other combination of earrings, glasses instead of the current forcing male to lose an eye/wear glasses and females to either lose an eye/wear glasses or have no earrings. IMO jsut add whiskers to every combination since there's no reason ratongas shouldn't have whiskers. Also make it so hats that don't cover the face at all don't make our whiskers disappear. As for kerras and iksar, sarnak etc... who cares about them? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Mirander_1

11-10-2008, 04:09 AM

Ok, here's some things I'd like to see:-Revamp the Robe Model: I'm not seriously bothered by the fact we only have one robe model, but I would like to see that one model look better, and a bit closer to the traditional mage's robe. Widen the sleeves enough that they no longer get tucked into the gloves, replace the current hood model with an altered form of the ranger's cowl (basically, cut off the part of the cowl that goes on the shoulders), merge the 'flaps' of the robe's skirt to just one or two pieces, instead of the current five (and while we're at it, dump the tube pants), and add cloth animations for being mounted.-Walking Stick Animation: If you're equipped with a staff, spear, or other pole weapon, have the option to have your character carry it like a walking stick, instead of having it strapped to the back.-Redo the Faces: Of the original models. The elves, barbarians, and especially the humans, would be the priority, but all the original races could probably do with a once-over.-De-playdoh the Hair: Create new versions of all the currently existing hairstyles that doesn't look like clay, and use them to replace the originals.

Firecracker

11-10-2008, 12:35 PM

<cite>Mirander_1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>-Redo the Faces: Of the original models. The elves, barbarians, and especially the humans, would be the priority, but all the original races could probably do with a once-over.</blockquote>The Female Elf races in my opinion are the best of the original besides there skin. I prefer old syle to the soga on all my elfs. I also have a feeling too since I have been asking and seen that a lot people who play the elf female races seem to prefer the original over soga too. The elf males in soga are not to bad in soga that I might actually perfer male saga over the origianl for the elfs. 'Old Style' versas 'Soga' will always be up for debate and that is why some of the reasons why the skeleton revamp had some problems I would bet because a statement was made that it would change some so much that a lot people wouldn't be happy. I am sure if SOE took a ingame servayb of what 'Old Style' or Soga races the players prefer that they might find what I am saying to be true that they'll find it to be 'Old Style' female elfs majority of the time. There is a exception of a few liking the original female human, halflings, and dwarft races for the soga model is way to skinny just like all the elfs are. I would just about bet soe has some regrets giving us the option of two modes for races for any skeleton revamp they do will have to leave both in tact so they are bound to have problems if you ask me.If they gave us more facial options like 'Old Style' has on soga and added some meat to the soga races I mention above along with the 'Old style' hair styles you might get more to convert over, but who knows for I know some who just plain don't like soga or vice versa at all so there is bound to be poeple who will not be happy if they decided to take the 'Old style' or soga out

Eshaye

11-10-2008, 03:12 PM

<cite>Mirander_1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok, here's some things I'd like to see:-De-playdoh the Hair: Create new versions of all the currently existing hairstyles that doesn't look like clay, and use them to replace the originals.</blockquote>That's kinda why it would be nice if the SOGA hair was also available to all humanoid races. I'm never averse to even more choices however. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />edit: I mean make the SOGA hair also available for the original humanoid models, like they did with human males?

Doggi

11-10-2008, 03:51 PM

not only make the SOGA hair available, make EVERY SOGA hair available to every humanoid races (ofcourse not male hairstyles on female toons *g*), I want to have this cool hairstyle with the shoulder long hair on my woodelf sk <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> kinda bugs me that I only can have tails... (I'm playing in SOGA...)

Firecracker

11-10-2008, 06:16 PM

Who wouldn't agree the biggiest complaint I have heard about Soga females is they are to skinny so why hasn't the devs added some meat to them yet? Another one is how 'Old Style' has more facial options. Along with these things and hair styles I would think marjority of the player base would more happy.I know this won't fix the repeat of repeat armor graphics but this is a start in where they can make some of us happy I would think.

Mirander_1

11-10-2008, 10:19 PM

On the Elves: They aren't bad, but I do think they could be better. Personally, I'd like to see all elf races remade to be somewhat reminiscent of the New Tunarian elves; they just look more... elfy than the current playable elves.On Hair: Yep, converting SOGA hair to work on original models would be an excellent starting point. After that, they ought to flat-out remake the original hairstyles.On Female SOGA: Yep, getting them less freakishly skinny would probably make them more palatable to people who don't like them (although, I think the skinnier look kinda sorta works on elves)

Snowdonia

11-11-2008, 12:00 PM

Mirander, The problem with what you propose is you're asking for things to actually be changed. As in full blown skins and models. They "tried" that (we were told) and it didn't work (IE skeleton revamp). So, asking them to do what they've already tried is counterproductive to the intent of this thread. This is why all the points I highlighted, that have been asked for ad nauseam while the skeleton revamp was in the works and most probably before, are mechanics that work within the current system. I would LOVE to ask for *new* hairstyles to be made, new body proportions (SOGA primarily but those Kerra sure could use some new feet), new faces (on SOGA models because *I* think those are hideous for most females and Barbarian males), etc but I figure we're more likely to see some of the changes listed, if we see any at all, if they aren't too labor intensive. I'm not saying I disagree with your sentiment on some things (aside from the elves; sorry but I think original elves are the best models in the game for females, although males are a different story except Half Elves) but I'd like to keep the thread less about total remakes and more about what can we ask them to do that is workable within the current structure. Mainly so the thread doesn't get too off track and we can keep it as focused as possible and to keep our probability of seeing any changes in the *maybe* column rather than wading around in the *most probably will never happen* column.

Eshaye

11-11-2008, 12:55 PM

<cite>Firecracker@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Who wouldn't agree the biggiest complaint I have heard about Soga females is they are to skinny so why hasn't the devs added some meat to them yet? Another one is how 'Old Style' has more facial options. Along with these things and hair styles I would think marjority of the player base would more happy.I know this won't fix the repeat of repeat armor graphics but this is a start in where they can make some of us happy I would think.</blockquote>Honestly the only good thing about the SOGA are the textures and the hair... The male models seem to be more proportionate to their armor, but the women.... There should have used the same body and just reskinned it to match the new heads. Would that be possible? The original female bodies are so lovely, they just needed better textures. :/

Mirander_1

11-11-2008, 04:17 PM

<cite>Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mirander, The problem with what you propose is you're asking for things to actually be changed. As in full blown skins and models. They "tried" that (we were told) and it didn't work (IE skeleton revamp). So, asking them to do what they've already tried is counterproductive to the intent of this thread. </blockquote>The purpose of the skeletal revamp was to speed up the process of creating new armor models and the like (more specifically, to speed up the process of refitting them to eighteen different races). They are certainly capable of making new armor models and altering old ones, it'll just take longer (and I'm willing to bet, now that they've dumped the revamp, we'll start seeing new armor models with expansions, even if only coming in at a trickle).For that matter, altering faces and making new hair would probably take around the same time with or without the revamp; those things are typically race-specific, and thus don't need to be refitted a dozen times. Heck, it's possible that it would take less time to create new race-specific hairstyles from scratch, than it would to take currently existing hairstyles and open them to all races.And the revamp would have done nothing for animations one way or the other, so I'll stand by that one.