Up and Coming Zerker - Why are Guards seen as better?

[Scrappe]

I asked this question a while back, but I didn't get a response I understood. Since then, I have created a solo'd a zerker up to 40 with 40 AAs. I have not grouped. Now that I have a better feel for zerking, I've been looking over the Guard AA's and CA lineup trying to see what the difference is. / From a buff/debuff perspective, they both look pretty close. / I have an assortment of temp buffs I put up before a difficult engagement, which is an annoyance, and I thought perhaps Guards had them static, but they also appear to have a selection of temp buffs. / I cant speak to Guard DPS. I probably cant even speak to Zerk DPS, except to say that it appears acceptable. When I leveled up a monk, DPS seemed better. Im told Zerks have always had better DPS than Guards, but that appears to have shifted of late. Perhaps the two are simply too close to make a distinction between. / The warrior AAs are quite excellent, but of course both classes get those. The zerk AAs are interesting, but I've seen much better in other classes I have worked on. the guard AAs seem a little more bland than the zerk AAs. I have yet to put any AAs in the zerk tree, so I could be off my mark in finding them merely acceptable. For EoF AAs, I tend to examine how they can increase what I already have rather than focusing on the endline ability (unless it's a staggering ability of course, which I don't see in Zerk or Guard trees). Overall, I would have to say that the zerk AAs are better than guard AAs, but neither gets me excited. I ASSuME™ guards have more health, mit and def statically than zerks to explain why folks keep saying guards are better, but it's seeming less and less that that's the case. I do know that they can hold aggro much more easily, so maybe that's the distinction. I'm told that zerks are supposed to have better dps, but since they appear to have ~equal DPS (as best I can figure), perhaps thats also tilting views. Now of course, I'm only 40. I dont have my class definer or Ancient Teachings. Perhaps those (in practice) will make the distinction between the classes much more obvious to me. If you're curious, I'm interested in creating the most survivable tank possible (in group, not raid). He needs noteworthy DPS, but it doesnt have to be stellar. Long ago, I know that Guard dps was seen as pathetic (although that appears to have shifted), but I didnt want to take a chance that I would have trouble during the levelling process that I'd have pathetic dps. You can see I dont really have a clue what the limits of warrior capability really are. I'm not even sure how to word my questions, so I apologize for that. It's just that, in the end, I'd like to ensure that I have thickest brick of a tank with noteworthy dps, with the understanding that he's never going to get raid gear. As a side note, I'm not sure how much mit/avoidance I should strive for (at 80) to be as survivable I would like. Perhaps even without raid gear, I could go over the cap (diminishing returns) for both classes. Perhaps even temp buffs would be un-necessary to reach that (I have no idea). Thanks for any insight you may offer.

[victer]

<p>Since you are only planning to do heroic content (no raiding) it doesnt really make too much of a difference in what class you choose.</p><p>You are going to have the same access to gear for both types of charachters so gear is not a factor. </p><p>It really comes down to your playstyle. </p><p>If all you want is to be a meatshield that has a very easy time holding agro in a single encounter choose the Gaurdian</p><p>If all you want is to be a meatshield that has a very easy time holding agro on multiple encounters choose the Zerker.</p><p>The main differences you are hearing about between zerkers and gaurdians only really happen when you start raiding. From then on the clear winner for survivability is a gaurdian while the zerker *slightly* does more dps.</p>

[Scrappe]

Does that mean to say they have the same survivability in a group instance? Let's say you have a lazy or substandard healer (the player I'm referring to, not necessarily the healing class). I know that both tanks can tank any group instance no problem. I just mean, what if your group makeup was small and/or the group healer was a slacker? With which tank would you be more likely to survive and survive well? I have read that, under such circumstances, a Guardian is noticeably easier to heal and more likely to survive. It could become relevant if say, my GF, wanted to be my healer in a duo arrangement.

[victer]

if all you want is pure survivability then go gaurdianbut like i said in heroic content it really doesnt matter

[Obadiah]

I'm tellin' your GF. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Look at it this way. One can self buff Stamina, Health, Defense, the other can self-buff DPS/Haste, Str, Regen and more Regen. Seems to  be that in equal (MC in this case) armor at level 80 it was about a 10% difference in health. I would expect it to be similar percentagewise throughout the tiers. That's a big difference.They both have their little self-protection temporary buff dealies. But Berserkers don't get a good one until level 80. Guards also have more ways to protect their groupmates. You don't want to be duoing with your GF and let her get killed do you? Major turnoff.If you want the thickest brick, Guardian is the obvious choice. DPS gap is probably somewhat larger at lower tiers when the Guard has less equipment that can make up the haste/DPS loss from the Berserk, but with the Great Gear Change maybe not. I love the Guard AAs, but maybe that's cause I live on the other side of the street.

[Scrappe]

Thanks Kurgen, that's actually very helpful. I'm not concerned about your telling my GF btw, not in English anyway. I ordered her from Russia. I keep her locked up in the basement. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Magnis]

<p>well aslong as she has a computer that runs everquest and a least dls its not consider cruelty.   dial-up God forbid, thats inhumane</p>

[LygerT]

<p>read one of the 300 threads on the zerk forum for complaints, go read how many complaint threads there are on the guardian forum, you will get an idea of which is the better choice overall irregardless of the sheep zerkers who just complain because someone else does. </p><p>the problem with zerks isn't really apparent until T8 raiding where our offensive skills turn into water and runoff into the gutter, the biggest problem we have is how others look at us as well as we look at ourselves, in that guardians do almost as much DPS as we do while they can tank more difficult mobs. we get to look pretty in our red armor as our health bar is to match it, we were supposed to be the damage dealing class and still are for AE encounters, it's just too bad there is so few anymore. </p><p>i don't have a problem with our class though, the problem is in how hate is generated and guards got bumped to stay competetive, basically edging them right up next to us as the damage dealing tank class for most content. there is no simple fix to our issue, so we ask for the little things that count and just mull along keeping ourselves content by blowing any multiple mob encounters we come across out of the water to make up for the other 99% of the time that we are just an average dumbed down plate tank class. </p>