A Possible Cause of The Rending

[Wluil]

I might be off my rocker here, but had a thought and felt it worth sharing. <div></div><div>We know via a book in SoF that the gods really didn't have anything to do with the rending, and that it affected their own planes as well. Thus giving us Shard of Fear, Shard of Hate, and a couple other locations where the planes "leaked" into Norrath. Going back a few weeks to the story of the three keys... I'm going to speculate that the "bomb" that went off at the end of the third part, in the realm of the shadowed men was the cause of the rending. </div><div></div><div>An artifact that powerful, one that had existed for over 250 millennia and had enough power to nearly destroy the void people... it's within reason to think an explosion of that magnitude going off in "the void" or some room that was intra-planar enough to be attached to the real world (think Fiddy's Moppet Shop) could break Norrath to pieces. It fits reasonably well enough into the 200-300 year ago time frame. The vague reference to "slow them down" could have been the past few centuries. That also gives them enough time to recover and begin their assault as we see it today. </div>

[Freliant]

I am not at all sure how the rending took place, but if I am not mistaken, it had something to do with Kerafyrm... aside from that, I know nothing. Could be that we are the "second" timestream after mortals entered the plane of time and that the rending was caused by the eventual destruccion of our universe... who knows...

[IrishWonder]

<p>I believe a dev stated in the past that the Rending was a direct result of the Gods withdrawing their presence from Norrath. They did not intentionally cause the Rending, but it is what subsequently occurred due to their absence.</p><p>You're thinking of the Shattering for Kerafyrm. He has been rumored (but not proven) to be related to the Shattering of Luclin. He might have destroyed the moon in an attempt to cause destruction on Norrath. There are many other theories about the Shattering though.</p>

[Maergoth]

The shattering is what happened to Luclin, the rending is what happened to Norrath. <b>The Shattering</b> was supposedly caused by a planar explosive called the Dresolisk crystal, crafted by Solusek Ro and taken to the Nexus with intent on severely punishing Norrathians for their disobeyance. Rallos and Solusek's troops invaded the Nexus, damaging it in the fight to take it over. They were working on repairing it over the next couple years (Teleportation was down for quite a while) when Kerafyrm caught wind of their plans, flew to Luclin and detonated it prematurely for the sake of Dragonkind. The Rune of Sunder was supposedly involved somehow, it was probably used in creating the crystal, or their means of making it explode.(SIDE NOTE: I'm well aware of how nicely dragons like to twist themselves into epic bits of history, and their methods of creative and suggestive storytelling.. but seeing 2 dragons with NO reason to agree with eachother (Nagafen and Darathar) both agreeing on the ONE fact that Kerafyrm was the cause.. it's solid enough evidence to at least keep heavily in mind.)<b>The Rending </b>I'm a little less knowledgable about. What's been said so far is correct.. the Rending also effected the planes and the gods themselves. What PROBABLY happened was.. the gods abandoned Norrath as punishment to the mortals.. without the influence of the gods, the planet was left unrestrained entirely and started tearing itself up. At the same time, without the support of the mortals, the gods were lacking following and suffered for it as well. This is the most likely reason they returned to Norrath after such a short time.. they needed mortals just as we needed them. If they didn't gain anything from our following, they would just watch over us like ants, opposed to awarding us powers for sacrificing items to them and such.Another possibility is that something befell the higher Elemental gods. Just as most demiplanes are maintained by the power of their respective plane of influence, I'm fairly certain the regular planes are somewhat sustained by their creating Elemental god's power as well. Demiplanes blink in and out of existance quite often because of the power needed to sustain them coming from their "host".. Plane of Sky had a similar problem. Veeshan pulled her power out of Plane of Sky and it slipped into our world bits at a time, not being a different Plane at all after a while. Elemental gods in distress would easily explain why the elements on Norrath went all [Removed for Content] causing the Rending.. while weakining the gods below them that they may have been contributing to.

[LordPazuzu]

<p>The following is but pure speculation: </p><p>The vacuum of power created by an entire pantheon of gods picking up their toys and going away could certainly conceivably cause the sort of apocalyptic backlash like the Rending.</p><p>In terms of the various sky islands coming over to Norrath, I always thought thet their presence was an intentional invasion, not by-product of Veeshan withdrawing.  </p><p>Also, come to think of it(correct me if I'm wrong), I don't recall Veeshan ever actually withdrawing her presence.  She's the god of dragonkind, not of mortal races, and she never collaborated with the other gods in any way.  The council of gods that removed themselves from Norrath were the gods of the mortal races and did not include the Wurmqueen.  </p><p>Odd thought:  The sky islands that have crossed over, excluding the Djinn Master's island, were under the sway of the Cult of the Awakened.  What if their appearance on Norrath wasn't so much of an invasion or happenstance, but an eviction for their heresy?</p>

[Maergoth]

I don't remember where it was stated, but yes.. the plane of sky being accessable by mortals was a direct result of it's weakening due to her lack of presence

[LordPazuzu]

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't remember where it was stated, but yes.. the plane of sky being accessable by mortals was a direct result of it's weakening due to her lack of presence</blockquote><p>If you ever remember where, please post.  I always thought Veeshan was rather conspicuous in her absence when it came to the divine actions leading to the base EQ2 storyline.  Would the source be a definite source, such as a piece of dev posted lore, or would it be a perspective-based source which comes from the point of view or opinion of another character within the lore.</p><p>Veeshan's withdrawal would not make much sense considering she was never directly assaulted in a manner the other deities were and did not act in accordance with any other diety.  She would require an alternate motivation for withdrawing.</p><p>The inability of mortals to access the Plane of Sky could simply be as a result of wizards initially losing their ability to teleport.  The beings of the plane were able to come the other way of their own accord with the Djinn Master removing his palace to Norrath in a deliberate action.</p><p>Ok, now that I've strayed way off topic...  I'm probably way off in my speculation anyway.  This could simply be an issue of the devs forcing a round peg into a square hole for the sake of uniformity.</p>

[zerfall]

<cite>Sulan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't remember where it was stated, but yes.. the plane of sky being accessable by mortals was a direct result of it's weakening due to her lack of presence</blockquote><p>If you ever remember where, please post. I always thought Veeshan was rather conspicuous in her absence when it came to the divine actions leading to the base EQ2 storyline. Would the source be a definite source, such as a piece of dev posted lore, or would it be a perspective-based source which comes from the point of view or opinion of another character within the lore.</p><p>Veeshan's withdrawal would not make much sense considering she was never directly assaulted in a manner the other deities were and did not act in accordance with any other diety. She would require an alternate motivation for withdrawing.</p><p>The inability of mortals to access the Plane of Sky could simply be as a result of wizards initially losing their ability to teleport. The beings of the plane were able to come the other way of their own accord with the Djinn Master removing his palace to Norrath in a deliberate action.</p><p>Ok, now that I've strayed way off topic... I'm probably way off in my speculation anyway. This could simply be an issue of the devs forcing a round peg into a square hole for the sake of uniformity.</p></blockquote>Veeshan never withdrew from Norrath in the manner that the other gods did, because lore specifically states that she scarred Norrath to claim it as her own, deposited the first brood of dragonkind, then flew off to the cosmos never to be seen again. While she was the "goddess" of the Plane of Sky, she never held manifest over the plane as she seemingly couldn't be bothered.This is all explained in the opening movie for EQ1, which is canon to the EQ2 storyline.As for the original topic of the sphere in the Three Keys story being the cause of the Rending, I never considered it but I could certainly see it as a possibility.  While the Tome of Destiny lore states that the Rending occurred as a direct result of the gods abandoning Norrath, keep in mind that it is also plausible that the Tome of Destiny itself could be written by mortals, ergo coincidence turns into certainty.  As well, perhaps the Tome was written by the Sage of Ages, and therefore could be subject to lies and deceit.If I'm way off on that, let me know. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Sulan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>In terms of the various sky islands coming over to Norrath, I always thought thet their presence was an intentional invasion, not by-product of Veeshan withdrawing.  <p>Also, come to think of it(correct me if I'm wrong), I don't recall Veeshan ever actually withdrawing her presence.  She's the god of dragonkind, not of mortal races, and she never collaborated with the other gods in any way.  The council of gods that removed themselves from Norrath were the gods of the mortal races and did not include the Wurmqueen.  </p><p>Odd thought:  The sky islands that have crossed over, excluding the Djinn Master's island, were under the sway of the Cult of the Awakened.  What if their appearance on Norrath wasn't so much of an invasion or happenstance, but an eviction for their heresy?</p></blockquote>Can't really withdraw when you never existed to begin with. As far as all of Norrath ever knew, Veeshan never actually stuck around after the left the dragons on Norrath. All we ever heard was that she flew off to other planets and never returned. Don't you find it kind of Odd that Veeshan never once gets involved in ANYTHING the mortals or other gods ever do? I"m pretty sure its because she was never around to begin with in order to get involved.

[Coniaric]

<p align="center"><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The shattering is what happened to Luclin, the rending is what happened to Norrath. <b>The Shattering</b> was supposedly caused by a planar explosive called the Dresolisk crystal, crafted by Solusek Ro and taken to the Nexus with intent on severely punishing Norrathians for their disobeyance. Rallos and Solusek's troops invaded the Nexus, damaging it in the fight to take it over. They were working on repairing it over the next couple years (Teleportation was down for quite a while) when Kerafyrm caught wind of their plans, flew to Luclin and detonated it prematurely for the sake of Dragonkind. The Rune of Sunder was supposedly involved somehow, it was probably used in creating the crystal, or their means of making it explode.(SIDE NOTE: I'm well aware of how nicely dragons like to twist themselves into epic bits of history, and their methods of creative and suggestive storytelling.. but seeing 2 dragons with NO reason to agree with eachother (Nagafen and Darathar) both agreeing on the ONE fact that Kerafyrm was the cause.. it's solid enough evidence to at least keep heavily in mind.)<b>The Rending </b>I'm a little less knowledgable about. What's been said so far is correct.. the Rending also effected the planes and the gods themselves. What PROBABLY happened was.. the gods abandoned Norrath as punishment to the mortals.. without the influence of the gods, the planet was left unrestrained entirely and started tearing itself up. At the same time, without the support of the mortals, the gods were lacking following and suffered for it as well. This is the most likely reason they returned to Norrath after such a short time.. they needed mortals just as we needed them. If they didn't gain anything from our following, they would just watch over us like ants, opposed to awarding us powers for sacrificing items to them and such.Another possibility is that something befell the higher Elemental gods. Just as most demiplanes are maintained by the power of their respective plane of influence, I'm fairly certain the regular planes are somewhat sustained by their creating Elemental god's power as well. Demiplanes blink in and out of existance quite often because of the power needed to sustain them coming from their "host".. Plane of Sky had a similar problem. Veeshan pulled her power out of Plane of Sky and it slipped into our world bits at a time, not being a different Plane at all after a while. Elemental gods in distress would easily explain why the elements on Norrath went all [Removed for Content] causing the Rending.. while weakining the gods below them that they may have been contributing to.</blockquote><p><b>The Shattering:</b> It's not just "next couple years" ... it's four centuries ago (approximately) when the Nexus was invaded. The moon exploded few decades, or less than a century, before EQ2 started. It was a long span of time when nothing seemed to happen ... then in a blink of an eye, it was done deal.</p><p>How it happened is open to speculations. I'm a bit confused by your wording. I don't know whether or not if you're saying the Nexus was damaged or the crystal was damaged. So I'll try to approach both ways.</p><p>About the crystal, I'm not sure if a gem with a destructive capability like the Dresolik crystal can be even stable if damaged. What if it's shock-sensitive like dynamite/nitroglycerin? Slightest bump can set it off any time. If the Dresolik crystal hold this immense power within itself, and if it was cracked ... it shouldn't be able to be stable any longer.</p><div style="text-align: center;"><img src="http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4545/dresolikgemti5.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></div><div style="text-align: center;"><i>Dresolik as seen in Tower of Solusek Ro in EverQuest</i>.</div><p>If it was the Nexus being "damaged", I doubt that matter one way or other. Teleportation was intended to be shut down, both wizard (sorcerer) spires and the druid rings, with a purpose of separating the mortal races further. Teleportation didn't start back up again until Echoes of Faydwer when the gods started to return - so that was nearly 500 years since. And with Luclin still in pieces, I doubt the Nexus was even necessary for teleportation anyway.</p><p>The Rune of Sunder, as we know so far, is a prophecy discovered by the Shissar maybe during the Elder Age. This rune foretold the Shattering ... but I think the Shissar didn't figured out precisely where and when, though. After all, the last "outpost" of their was on Luclin and it was destroyed.</p><p>Even Darathar and Nagafen's words are in doubt ... because I'm sure if there is one thing that both will agree on ... it's that the Dragon kin is above all the races of Norrath.</p><p><b>The Rending:</b> Some demi-planes may "blink" in and out, I think it's more correct to say "faded from existence" per Solusek's statement in the Tome.</p><p>But not all of them. Proof of example, Plane of Serenity. This was a demi-plane of Master Wu, linked to the goddess of Tranquility, Quellious. What was explained in the book obtained during the monk epic quest - Quellious approached Master Wu and told him that his demi-plane had to be "absorbed" back into the main plane to preserve and maintain the essence of Tranquility. So it can be assumed that other gods could and would do the same thing to their disciples' demi-planes.</p><p>What I can figure, though, is that the movement of the planar powers was being distrupted too much ... with all the reabsorbing of demi-planes and the repeative killing of the gods' personas ... that the planar realms had became weakened and unstable. And thus unable to withstand external effects like the Rending easily.</p><p>I assume the Plane of Sky wasn't as well-maintained as other planes and got "leaked" into the material reality. And that the Overrealm is just a portion of the former plane ... and there are more floating islands out there that weren't claimed by the Awakened.</p><p>________________________</p><p>On other note, I would think Veeshan does exist. At least to mark Norrath and create the brood. And which prompted other gods to get involved. And I do think she is very like her element of influence (Sky) and just as distant. The power of the element or influence seemed to affect a god's personality, if anyone notice.</p><p>The council of the gods did involved the gods that are not directly responsible for creation of mortal races - especially the gods of greater elemental power - Xegony, the Rathe, the Triumvirate, and Fennin Ro. They removed themselves as well.</p>

[LordPazuzu]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sulan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>In terms of the various sky islands coming over to Norrath, I always thought thet their presence was an intentional invasion, not by-product of Veeshan withdrawing.  <p>Also, come to think of it(correct me if I'm wrong), I don't recall Veeshan ever actually withdrawing her presence.  She's the god of dragonkind, not of mortal races, and she never collaborated with the other gods in any way.  The council of gods that removed themselves from Norrath were the gods of the mortal races and did not include the Wurmqueen.  </p><p>Odd thought:  The sky islands that have crossed over, excluding the Djinn Master's island, were under the sway of the Cult of the Awakened.  What if their appearance on Norrath wasn't so much of an invasion or happenstance, but an eviction for their heresy?</p></blockquote>Can't really withdraw when you never existed to begin with. As far as all of Norrath ever knew, Veeshan never actually stuck around after the left the dragons on Norrath. All we ever heard was that she flew off to other planets and never returned. Don't you find it kind of Odd that Veeshan never once gets involved in ANYTHING the mortals or other gods ever do? I"m pretty sure its because she was never around to begin with in order to get involved.</blockquote>She existed.  She ruled over Sky, but was never made manifest for practical reasons.  She would literally have been a mob the size of a continent.  It was always acknowledged that she was out there in Sky, somewhere, just not in a manner that the players would encounter like the other gods.  The islands in the Plane of Sky in EQ1 were only representative of a miniscule piece of Veeshan's realm.

[Cusashorn]

I know she was there, but SHE WASN'T THERE. As I mentioned, never once did she ever make her presence known on Norrath since she left the dragons there to inhabit the planet. Never once did anyone ever get any dreams about her to relay a message. Never once did she ever get involved in any affairs of the mortals or other gods.

[LordPazuzu]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know she was there, but SHE WASN'T THERE. As I mentioned, never once did she ever make her presence known on Norrath since she left the dragons there to inhabit the planet. Never once did anyone ever get any dreams about her to relay a message. Never once did she ever get involved in any affairs of the mortals or other gods.</blockquote><p>Not for the mortal races no.  I remember bards could worship her and later the Drakkin race, but that was the extent the player races would be involved with her in EQ1.  I do remember when Velious first launched hearing a piece of lore about her divine intervention being required to some degree in order to facilitate Kerafyrm's imprisonment.  But that was a long time ago and the details of the story are very fuzzy.  But then again, people used to swear that Vox and Nagafen were Kerafyrm's parents too.</p><p>Either way, whether she was involved on Norrath ever again is ultimately irrelevant to access to the Plane of Sky.  When did she withdraw from the plane?  What was her motivation since it would have to be unique to her alone.  Did she cut access to mortals or was that a result of the gods removing the ability to teleport, since the Plane of Sky was accessed only via wizard spell.  Any lore pertaining to Veeshan herself past the creation story in the hands of the mortal races is practically non-existant.  To assume that she just flew off into the cosmos never to be seen from again after thwacking Norrath is really just that, an assumption.  Access to that sort of dragon lore has never really been given to the players past a certain point.  It was also hinted at that Veeshan was also Vesagran, the dragon god that created the dragorn race of Kuaa in the gates of Discord expansion to EQ1, but then we're getting into non-canon again, much like the Drakkin.</p><p>The only hard facts we know about Veeshan is that she's a giant crystalline dragon who rules the Plane of Sky, she sparked life into Norrath, scarred the continent of Velious, deposited her brood there, and froze it eternally with her breath...  And she particularly dislikes Brell Serillis.  Past that only the dragons themselves know for sure, and they don't seem to feel like sharing with us.</p>

[Zabjade]

<span style="color: #00cc00;">The Rending (of the Land) was the land going haywire about 500 years ago.The Shattering (of Luclin) happend 5 years before EQ2 starts about 9 years ago.At least that is what I've pieced together.</span>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #00cc00;">The Rending (of the Land) was the land going haywire about 500 years ago.The Shattering (of Luclin) happend 5 years before EQ2 starts about 9 years ago.At least that is what I've pieced together.</span></blockquote><p>The Rending happened across a 300 year period in the last 500 years. Didn't start until after the 2nd Rallosian War.</p><p>The Shattering happened 50 years ago and ended 15 years ago when Luclin's gravitational pull began to settle. (confirmed by a dev.)</p>

[Coniaric]

<p>I went back to older thread and checked.</p><p>The Rending: 175 years before EQ2, lasted for approximately 50 years.</p><p>The Shattering: 50 years before EQ2 started, lasted approximately 35 years.</p>

[Miladi]

<cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I went back to older thread and checked.</p><p>The Rending: 175 years before EQ2, lasted for approximately 50 years.</p><p>The Shattering: 50 years before EQ2 started, lasted approximately 35 years.</p></blockquote><p>From what I've read the Rending did start about 175 before EQ2, but it lasted for 90 years not 50. The Shattering happened about 10 years before EQ2 and was instantaneous or near enough to not matter, it doesn't have a length of time that it "lasted". Unless you count the time since Luclin blew up (what the Shattering refers to), up to now.</p><p>Here's a couple of links to time lines <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2daily.com/eq2wiki/Eq2_timeline#Ages" target="_blank">EQ2Daily's Timeline</a> and <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/wiki/Norrath_Timeline" target="_blank">Allakhazam's Timeline</a> .The Allakhazam's timeline is a bit tougher to read so its hard to follow it, the EQ2Daily one is formatted for ease of reading and seeing what ages fell where.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Miladiann@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I went back to older thread and checked.</p><p>The Rending: 175 years before EQ2, lasted for approximately 50 years.</p><p>The Shattering: 50 years before EQ2 started, lasted approximately 35 years.</p></blockquote><p>From what I've read the Rending did start about 175 before EQ2, but it lasted for 90 years not 50. The Shattering happened about 10 years before EQ2 and was instantaneous or near enough to not matter, it doesn't have a length of time that it "lasted". Unless you count the time since Luclin blew up (what the Shattering refers to), up to now.</p><p>Here's a couple of links to time lines <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2daily.com/eq2wiki/Eq2_timeline#Ages" target="_blank">EQ2Daily's Timeline</a> and <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/wiki/Norrath_Timeline" target="_blank">Allakhazam's Timeline</a> .The Allakhazam's timeline is a bit tougher to read so its hard to follow it, the EQ2Daily one is formatted for ease of reading and seeing what ages fell where.</p></blockquote>A developer confirmed that the Shattering took place 50 years ago, and the rainfall lasted 35 years. Luclin's gravitational pull finally settled 15 years ago, and no more pieces of Luclin have struck Norrath since.

[Lodrelhai]

The specific dev quote:<cite>missdoomcookie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>What I was saying is that the Rending occurred over the course of 50 years 175 years prior to EQ2. The Shattering, on the other hand, happened 50 years before the start of EQ2.Further, the effects of the Shattering continued to be felt for about 35 years, coming to a close at the number you have - 15 years prior to EQ2.</blockquote>Can be found <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=415177" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">here</a>, bottom of the page.

[Miladi]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Miladiann@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I went back to older thread and checked.</p><p>The Rending: 175 years before EQ2, lasted for approximately 50 years.</p><p>The Shattering: 50 years before EQ2 started, lasted approximately 35 years.</p></blockquote><p>From what I've read the Rending did start about 175 before EQ2, but it lasted for 90 years not 50. The Shattering happened about 10 years before EQ2 and was instantaneous or near enough to not matter, it doesn't have a length of time that it "lasted". Unless you count the time since Luclin blew up (what the Shattering refers to), up to now.</p><p>Here's a couple of links to time lines <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2daily.com/eq2wiki/Eq2_timeline#Ages" target="_blank">EQ2Daily's Timeline</a> and <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/wiki/Norrath_Timeline" target="_blank">Allakhazam's Timeline</a> .The Allakhazam's timeline is a bit tougher to read so its hard to follow it, the EQ2Daily one is formatted for ease of reading and seeing what ages fell where.</p></blockquote>A developer confirmed that the Shattering took place 50 years ago, and the rainfall lasted 35 years. Luclin's gravitational pull finally settled 15 years ago, and no more pieces of Luclin have struck Norrath since.</blockquote>I think the developers need to talk to each other because from past threads, Moorgard stated other dates fromwhat I read.

[Coniaric]

<cite>Miladiann@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I went back to older thread and checked.</p><p>The Rending: 175 years before EQ2, lasted for approximately 50 years.</p><p>The Shattering: 50 years before EQ2 started, lasted approximately 35 years.</p></blockquote><p>From what I've read the Rending did start about 175 before EQ2, but it lasted for 90 years not 50. The Shattering happened about 10 years before EQ2 and was instantaneous or near enough to not matter, it doesn't have a length of time that it "lasted". Unless you count the time since Luclin blew up (what the Shattering refers to), up to now.</p><p>Here's a couple of links to time lines <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2daily.com/eq2wiki/Eq2_timeline#Ages" target="_blank">EQ2Daily's Timeline</a> and <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/wiki/Norrath_Timeline" target="_blank">Allakhazam's Timeline</a> .The Allakhazam's timeline is a bit tougher to read so its hard to follow it, the EQ2Daily one is formatted for ease of reading and seeing what ages fell where.</p></blockquote><p>What Cusa said is correct, more or less. Missdoomcookie (a developer) had confirmed on the length of time of both events. The Rending began 175 years ago and lasted over the course of 50 years - it may had gone up to 90, but per this developer's statement, it was at least 50 years.</p><p>The Shattering started with the explosion of Luclin and the event included the fall of luclinites that happened afterward, hitting Norrath and the gravitational balance was serverely distrupted - causing worldwide disasters, obviously. That started 50 years ago and went on for 35 years or so. So by now, it's just micro-meteors being burned up upon entry into the atmosphere.</p><p>Missdoomcookie's posts can be found here: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=415177" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Vhalen's final gift to us. The Shissar knew of thier fates....</a></p>

[Coniaric]

<cite>Miladiann@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Miladiann@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I went back to older thread and checked.</p><p>The Rending: 175 years before EQ2, lasted for approximately 50 years.</p><p>The Shattering: 50 years before EQ2 started, lasted approximately 35 years.</p></blockquote><p>From what I've read the Rending did start about 175 before EQ2, but it lasted for 90 years not 50. The Shattering happened about 10 years before EQ2 and was instantaneous or near enough to not matter, it doesn't have a length of time that it "lasted". Unless you count the time since Luclin blew up (what the Shattering refers to), up to now.</p><p>Here's a couple of links to time lines <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2daily.com/eq2wiki/Eq2_timeline#Ages" target="_blank">EQ2Daily's Timeline</a> and <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/wiki/Norrath_Timeline" target="_blank">Allakhazam's Timeline</a> .The Allakhazam's timeline is a bit tougher to read so its hard to follow it, the EQ2Daily one is formatted for ease of reading and seeing what ages fell where.</p></blockquote>A developer confirmed that the Shattering took place 50 years ago, and the rainfall lasted 35 years. Luclin's gravitational pull finally settled 15 years ago, and no more pieces of Luclin have struck Norrath since.</blockquote>I think the developers need to talk to each other because from past threads, Moorgard stated other dates fromwhat I read.</blockquote><p>While that may be, Moorgard left long time ago and so what he said doesn't necessarily hold the same way. </p><p>I  feel that the current dates are more defined and are more rational.</p>

[Miladi]

<cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Miladiann@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Miladiann@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I went back to older thread and checked.</p><p>The Rending: 175 years before EQ2, lasted for approximately 50 years.</p><p>The Shattering: 50 years before EQ2 started, lasted approximately 35 years.</p></blockquote><p>From what I've read the Rending did start about 175 before EQ2, but it lasted for 90 years not 50. The Shattering happened about 10 years before EQ2 and was instantaneous or near enough to not matter, it doesn't have a length of time that it "lasted". Unless you count the time since Luclin blew up (what the Shattering refers to), up to now.</p><p>Here's a couple of links to time lines <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2daily.com/eq2wiki/Eq2_timeline#Ages" target="_blank">EQ2Daily's Timeline</a> and <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2.allakhazam.com/wiki/Norrath_Timeline" target="_blank">Allakhazam's Timeline</a> .The Allakhazam's timeline is a bit tougher to read so its hard to follow it, the EQ2Daily one is formatted for ease of reading and seeing what ages fell where.</p></blockquote>A developer confirmed that the Shattering took place 50 years ago, and the rainfall lasted 35 years. Luclin's gravitational pull finally settled 15 years ago, and no more pieces of Luclin have struck Norrath since.</blockquote>I think the developers need to talk to each other because from past threads, Moorgard stated other dates fromwhat I read.</blockquote><p>While that may be, Moorgard left long time ago and so what he said doesn't necessarily hold the same way. </p><p>I  feel that the current dates are more defined and are more rational.</p></blockquote><p>I feel that the current developers didn't talk to the old developers before they left and made stuff up, and they just don't know what the original developers had already said. So what we end up with is a lore time line that doesn't track from one developer to the next. Which means to me, any figure you throw out could be right depending upon which developer decides to chime in on a subject. </p><p>How can there be such a discrepancy between timelines if they're all supposed to be using the same one for the game? Did the Rending actually happen when Missdoomcookie said it did, did the Shattering; or did it happen when Moorgard said it did? How are the users supposed to know this stuff? We can't, and they need to stick to something official and WRITTEN DOWN somewhere so that they can refer to it when questions come up. Lore may not be important to everyone that plays the game, but to those of us that DO care about it want reliable answers.</p><p>BTW, almost forgot, <i>when</i> someone left shouldn't affect the time line in the game, if they had a clue to what the timeline is it wouldn't matter if it was stated 5 years ago or 5 minutes ago, it should be consistent.</p>

[Zabjade]

<span style="color: #00cc00;">Sounds like we need to get all of the Devs on the same page.</span>

[Cusashorn]

Well just remember, Moorgard was more or less just the main Public Representative between devs and the community. Vhalen wrote the vast majority of the lore in this game, and he only left recently. He and the other devs said that they work as a team for the lore, and didn't just put the whole workload on Vhalen's shoulders. I'm sure he told the current devs everything they needed to know.

[RaphaNissi]

It was stated that Vhalen and Jindrack had worked on a timeline of major events.  We need to remember that devs are human, they can make mistakes.  It's possible that they might not fully understand an aspect of the History of Norrath and make a statement that is later clarified as more and more is understood about events.As far as the Dragon Isles and the Plane of Sky, I'm pretty sure Jabber explains what happened.  I'll try to remember to talk to him soon and she what he says (if no one beats me to it)

[Coniaric]

<p>What they said above.</p><p>Any developers can go and refer to the lore information & timeline. Then state such.</p>

[Pipy]

<p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Times New Roman;">One thought I had on this subject,  Much like Sky "Bleeding" into Norrath,  Couldnt The Underfoot have slowly "bled" into the underground areas and could have caused massive cave ins all over the world as things gave out over the years?  This could also explain why the Ratonga suddenly came to the sruface "like rats from a sinking ship".  I dont know much about Ratonga lore but werent they from the underfoot?</span></p>

[troodon]

<cite>Pipy wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Times New Roman;">One thought I had on this subject,  Much like Sky "Bleeding" into Norrath,  Couldnt The Underfoot have slowly "bled" into the underground areas and could have caused massive cave ins all over the world as things gave out over the years?  </span></p></blockquote><p>That's a theory that we kicked around when SoF was first released (and with it the lore about the Rending affecting the Planes) and it is one I see as quite solid, certainly more defensible than any proposed alternative.  The Rending as Norrathians know it (earthquakes and such) was just a side-effect of whatever was happening in the Plane of the Underfoot.  It's the most logical explanation, I think, that can explain how a Planar event can somehow be responsible for so much destruction on a plain ol' planet.</p><p>Edit: I've found the <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=387430" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">original thread</a> that discussed this Rending-in-Plane-of-Underfoot theory, if anyone's interested.</p>

[Gisallo]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #00cc00;">The Rending (of the Land) was the land going haywire about 500 years ago.The Shattering (of Luclin) happend 5 years before EQ2 starts about 9 years ago.At least that is what I've pieced together.</span></blockquote><p>The Rending happened across a 300 year period in the last 500 years. Didn't start until after the 2nd Rallosian War.</p><p>The Shattering happened 50 years ago and ended 15 years ago when Luclin's gravitational pull began to settle. (confirmed by a dev.)</p></blockquote><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=359009" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=359009</a></p><p>This link (the stickied time line) seems to be accepted lore (I believe somewhere Vaylen even pretty much said these dates are accurate and he is the lore "god" is he not?).</p><p>That being the case how far into time we are from "EQ2 begins I think is the issue, and there have already been numerous threads that say thats hard to determine because the year/calendar on each server is not synced.</p><p>AS for the cause of the Rending Vaylen did say it was because the gods left.  That being said I don't think this is because they weren't there to keep and "eye on things."  The world existed before the gods arrived, created by The Nameless, heck Veeshan was the first one to find it, not the other gods.  She just marked it and then moved on.  I think it FAR more likely that the gods and the "gates" they opened, or strengthened at least, to allow them easy access to the world became bound up with it and their planes with Norrath.  When they simply "slammed the door" so to speak, it caused chaos in both places as both lands had become so linked.  </p><p>Think of what would happen if you simply sliced an unwanted growth or tumor from your body, without thought to the consequences.  It wasn't there when you were created true, but since it has been allowed to grow so much it is very much a part of you.  If you just chop it off, you are going to do serious damage, have a nasty scar and possibly bleed out.  That to me is the Rending, the side effect of an ill conceived tempertantrum from the gods.  Yes they were worried that mortals had grown to powerful, but their response was to just take a knife to the problem without thinking it through to the end. </p><p>I am also thinking that the gods are indeed likely more powerful when they have contact with their worshippers and so reestablished contact so they could have the extra "juice" needed to repair the damage and chaos done to their planes, which was entirely unexpected.</p>

[Pipy]

<cite>Galibier@Lucan</cite> <blockquote><p>I am also thinking that the gods are indeed likely more powerful when they have contact with their worshippers </p></blockquote><p>I disagree here.  In most mythos the gods were greated by thier followers belief in them, In the EQ reality The gods were created by the Nameless as an extension of himself to interact with this place he had found.</p><p><i>"In the quiet expanse of the void, it sent itself out. To probe this empty space. To seek it's boundaries if it had them. As it's awareness searched the void all it could think about was the discovery of something different. And there, as it willed it so, it found something different indeed. A pocket of space and within it the flow of time creeping inexorably on. Of all existence, this pocket of reality was the only thing different than itself. When it stepped into the space, something happened. Something terrible and wonderful. Something terrifying and exciting. The pocket had the elements of space and time. The Nameless knew naught of these things and when it entered the void, it could not be contained within it and a part of it lashed out in all directions to fill the space which had been empty with a force that knew no boundaries."</i></p><p><i>and</i></p><p><i>""It is said that outside of space and time an entity known only as the Nameless exists, and that this being created all that there is and was and will be. It is also written in ancient texts that from His mind sprang not only the universe and its countless suns and worlds, but also a myriad of sentient, powerful, yet finite creatures whom one such as a man, or elf, or dwarf, would call a god."</i></p><p>My feelins are that at the time of thier creation that were at the peak of thier power.  They then created us in what I suspect is the same need to interact that the Nameless felt.  In all honesty we are probably nothing more then a drain on the gods created in thier vanity.  Maybe they only created us to worship thier egos.  Lord knows I know a few people no where near as powerful as gods that "think" they need worshiped</p>

[troodon]

<cite>Galibier@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=359009" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=359009</a></p><p>This link (the stickied time line) seems to be accepted lore (I believe somewhere Vaylen even pretty much said these dates are accurate and he is the lore "god" is he not?).</p></blockquote>I don't remember Vhalen ever signing off on any dates regarding the issue, but missdoomcookie said that <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=415177#4632175" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">those</a> specifically are the dates.  Just because a thread is stickied doesn't mean it's officially accurate (trust me, I've got a stickied thread in here). 

[Gisallo]

<cite>Pipy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Galibier@Lucan</cite> <blockquote><p>I am also thinking that the gods are indeed likely more powerful when they have contact with their worshippers </p></blockquote><p>I disagree here.  In most mythos the gods were greated by thier followers belief in them, In the EQ reality The gods were created by the Nameless as an extension of himself to interact with this place he had found.</p></blockquote>Oh I am not postulating that the gods were created by their followers, OOC I always laugh at how the "gods" are called such, when they are as much a creation of the nameless and the races of Norrath are creation of the "gods".  I think it is rather like this.  As you stated the gods created the major races and a portion of themselves likely went with this creation.  In doing so they placed ever so small a fragment of their own "divinity" into each race.  When the planes are connected they are still connected to this piece of themselves.  With the planes closed off this connection is severed and so they lost access to this portion of themselves.  Perhaps "worship" was the wrong word <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. 

[Pipy]

Long story short.  what I was saying was due to the way the "gods" were created here I don't think they get much if anything energy or power wise from our worship/belief in them.  I think they would draw thier power directly from The Nameless.  Maybe thats where they went, off to the border of space and time to be close to "father" for a recharge.  Naturally I have no info to base that on <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Gisallo]

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Galibier@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=359009" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=359009</a></p><p>This link (the stickied time line) seems to be accepted lore (I believe somewhere Vaylen even pretty much said these dates are accurate and he is the lore "god" is he not?).</p></blockquote>I don't remember Vhalen ever signing off on any dates regarding the issue, but missdoomcookie said that <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=415177#4632175" target="_blank">those</a> specifically are the dates.  Just because a thread is stickied doesn't mean it's officially accurate (trust me, I've got a stickied thread in here). </blockquote>Thats the thread I was thinking of, thanks.  Sorry misremembered the Dev.  I know sometimes they contradict a little, but if you are on an RP server and in an RP guild, you sorta need that common ground in order to have back stories and the like be consistent.  My main issue was with the poster who was putting the time of the shatter in terms of a century or more.  That simply makes little sense with the idea that the end of the Shatter is largely the beginning of the age of the Shattered Lands also known as EQ2.  I think the idea that the 15 year thing simply being the end of a great cosmological makes a lot of sense.

[Coniaric]

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Galibier@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=359009" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=359009</a></p><p>This link (the stickied time line) seems to be accepted lore (I believe somewhere Vaylen even pretty much said these dates are accurate and he is the lore "god" is he not?).</p></blockquote>I don't remember Vhalen ever signing off on any dates regarding the issue, but missdoomcookie said that <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=415177#4632175" target="_blank">those</a> specifically are the dates.  Just because a thread is stickied doesn't mean it's officially accurate (trust me, I've got a stickied thread in here). </blockquote><p>What troodon said is correct. The stickied thread wasn't updated to reflect the current information. The last time that thread was updated was back in September 2007, almost a year ago. While it's informative, it's not up to the date.</p><p>Vhalen was well-known for his vagueness on the lore, he revealed some, but held back some. Plus I think it was Moorgard back then was the one who brought forth the relative timelime (correct me if there is a specific post by someone) and he wasn't a developer at first too ... then missdoomcookie <b><i>clarifies</i></b> it further.</p><p>The updated timeline makes more sense, relatively, in the process of development around the world. For example, the Luclinite shard a short distance away from Gorowyn had to reached its location much longer before the (presumed) 15-20 years time span. The Gorowyn Sarnaks woke up around 20 years before EQ2. If the sarnaks were up and around, building their city ... they likely would have been dead from the impact. I think the hibernation chambers they were in saved them.</p><p>Well ... there are few inconsistences in environmental disasters and the time of recovery, but this explain it little better than the previous estimate.</p><p>______________________________</p><p>About the gods and the created races ... they also did it to keep each other in check ... to stop each other from expanding their powerbase.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Coniaric wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>The updated timeline makes more sense, relatively, in the process of development around the world. For example, the Luclinite shard a short distance away from Gorowyn had to reached its location much longer before the (presumed) 15-20 years time span. The Gorowyn Sarnaks woke up around 20 years before EQ2. If the sarnaks were up and around, building their city ... they likely would have been dead from the impact. I think the hibernation chambers they were in saved them.</p></blockquote><p>Are you sure? I could have sworn that a few NPCs in Timorous Deep, as well as one of the creation books, mentions that they've been around for about 50 years.</p><p>It makes sense that they would be devastated by a tidal wave no smaller than the ones portrayed in "Deep Impact" due to that huge shard, but I really thought I saw mention of them existing for about 50 years.</p>

[Pipy]

Ya know, I started a sarnak toon and I could have sworn the audio narative said 100 years while the camera was "flying" me to my character.  but it might have said "within the last hundred years"  I'm at work and have no way to check this.

[Gisallo]

<cite>Pipy wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ya know, I started a sarnak toon and I could have sworn the audio narative said 100 years while the camera was "flying" me to my character.  but it might have said "within the last hundred years"  I'm at work and have no way to check this.</blockquote>Well here (if its the case) is time to fight suspension of disbelief.  It is more than possible that the Dev who wrote that story was saying "how to explain Tim Deep being this established" without thinking of the over all world time line.  You then end up with an issue where you may have to say "hey they were in a mountain, its all good, let it lie".  <shrug>

[Coniaric]

<p>I know. That's the problem with the 500-year span ... everything had to be crammed into that.</p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>If the Sarnak had been awake since 50 years or so ... how do they even survive? They're living inside a volcano, for goodness' sake. Even if they got through the tidal wave ... how do they get through the eruption beneath their feet?</p><p>Huge suspension of disbelief right there.</p><p>****</p><p>I forgot to add: Since I cannot hear the narrative, so obviously I won't know that part.</p>

[Pipy]

<p>Well also the sarnaks could have been there 100 years.... that dosnt mean that they didn't witness the hunk of moon landing, had nearly everything blown up then started over.  Who knows that huge shard could have had anything in it. I hear there was supposed to be a dungeon or two in there but they run out of time.  If something in there was supposed to survive maybe they used these magics on a massive scale to live thru the landing and may have caused the change in the local sarnaks. </p><p> I plan to check that new character audio when I get home in a few hours.</p><p>Just finished listening to that audio, all it says is they have been around LESS then a hundred years</p>