En Garde - Fencer ftw

[Kelrizzo]

I was sticking with the typical duel weild aa set, but not happy with it.  It's not what I want to do.  I definitely understand maximizing the dps of what is a dps class, but what this results in is a bunch of cookie cutter rogues running around fighting and straining for the extra 3 dps within their tier.So, I decided the heck with it, I'm going fencer.  The bottom line is, no one is going to etch my dps on my tombstone and I won't be memoralized for it, so do what's fun. To this end I've taken:Int: 4, 1Wis: 4,. 4, 4, 8Agi 4, 6, 4, 8, 2Am I the most uber 54 swashy on my server? Not even close, but I believe the challenge is not to stamp out your AA's the way everyone else does, but to create the character that you want, then maximize the potential.The swashbuckler is not a conformist anyway, but a wild and free individual who accepts who they are and what they like, and makes it work to their profit.Just random thoughts.

[PakMonyet]

Well Said......!

[riblete]

I definately agree with what you have said and I am an offhand-free fan, though I dual-wield sometimes. But, you really should get the final wisdom ability. IMO it is the best two points you can spend in the rogue tree. Adds to everything offensive and defensive!  Coule is much better than Sailwind, I think. Once you hit 70, you can have both and boot dagger.Try shifting two points from "avast ye" into "lunge reversal" and shifting the two from "Sailwind" into "Coule".

[AegisCrown]

have fun with your lower dps

[Faenril]

<cite>Coel@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>have fun with your lower dps</blockquote>Until you get to end game and achieve a nice dbl attack %, it does not really matter if you go fencer or dual wield.One thing I don't get though is why he does not get coule from the wis line. It's pretty good.

[AegisCrown]

even lower level with teh state of mastercrafted weapons you are best going dw

[Faenril]

<cite>Coel@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>even lower level with teh state of mastercrafted weapons you are best going dw</blockquote>Ah, could be now that MC gear was revamped <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Low levels are so far away now ^^

[Gaedan]

As a lowbie myself, I've actually found WIS to be better than DW.  However, I am a complete newbie without much money and access to top-of-the-line weapons.  Its cheaper to upgrade that's for sure.I imagine that I will drop WIS somewhere around the 50s or so when I have more money, better weapons and more points to sink into STR & AGI both.

[Hamervelder]

Sony made the Wis line useless when they started throwing DA on everything.  There was a time when you absolutely <i>had</i> to be Wis-specced as a swashy.  Now, I'd agree w/ Coel: DW is the way to go.BTW - don't duel Coel.  It hurts, lol.

[riblete]

I am a fairly new level 80 swashy, and DA is not on everything. It does seem more common on fabled than legendary. I have my melee crit up to 32%, but only have 6% for DA. I would add more DA if items that did not suck would drop. Often I am choosing between a +2 DA versus a +2 crit. Of course, it may be I am unlucky or that I am fighting in the wrong zones. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Edited to change DW to DA. Meant - Double Attack. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Tyr]

I personally found that until I got a fabled T8 weapon to go with my epic, one hander spec worked about as good for me as the dual wield spec.   Previous to looting lifespike, I was using soulfire and lost three rolls on carotidcuter... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Keep in mind that I'm not normally in the main tank group... so usually have a troub in my group and an illy instead of a coercer... Once I got a good second weapon, dw did make a pretty large difference.  I really grew to like the fencer style of play, but T8 really gets rid of that whole "feel" by making everything about the long delay/high damage range weapons.  I would like to see the devs introduce some fast and powerful "fencer" style weapons for the ability to spec "fencer ae dps".  It would also be nice to see more stragegic multi mob encounters to make the "AE classes" have a purpose.  I think with a few tweaks, the fencer spec could be a situationally usefull spec.  As it is right now, it's not really worth the loss in dps for me nor is it as responsive as it used to be in T7.

[Kelrizzo]

Apologies, was away for a while and could not chime in on the conversation.Coel, you make my point.  I could cookie cut my Swashy and make it just as good as the next guy's, dps-wise, but what I'm getting at is I really wanted to utilize the fencer play style.  So my choices are go DW for the sake of dps; or suck it up, go fencer, and maximize that play style.  So actually, I am enjoying my lower dps.  I decided to do something a bit different than the fotm.Thanks for the AA mods, I'll give those a shot <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Shadowfoot007]

..

[tass]

well ya agi should be used once u hit lv 70 and have a good 1 hand to accomodate for the duel. But only then. It's stupid to use the points before then since ur just losing out on stats and more dmg. But hey lol its your aa slap em in whatever. Me when im fighting for life I want every single dmg item at my disposel to me ripping off onto the mob so I don't die.

[Kelrizzo]

Then I ended up going dual weild anyhow.  You just lose too much...../emote begins the fencer Christmas wishlistIt's never too early!

[profpedantic]

i too have thrown caution to the wind and have gone down the wis line with my brigand...<div></div><div>yeah, what's a brigand doing here?</div><div></div><div>dispelling my concern that the wis line isn't completely gimped.  sure, it's not the super-dps that dual wield is, but it certainly puts out some dps and looks much cooler than dual wielding 2 piercing weapons and yet your toon swings them like clubs.</div><div></div><div>ultimately, i'm not much of a cookie-cutter-type either and it was mildly humorous that you started out posting how you weren't going cookie-cutter and everyone then tried to force you into cookie-cutter AA builds.</div><div></div><div>i support you in your rebelling against the "standard."  and if it turns out that i can't dish out enough dps to play the solo/pug game that i usually play, then i'll just switch to my assassin.  he is unusually cookie-cutter though i didn't really plan it that way.  i just thought those particular AA's would be awesome for what i want my assassin to be.  imagine my surprise when everyone said that those were the "have to's" for assassin AA's.</div>

[Thunndar316]

<p>So what is the optimum DPS line for swashies?  I thought STR and WIS with a 1 hander was the best DPS?  Did I miss the memo?</p><p>Im currently</p><p>STR 4 4 8 8 2</p><p>WIS 7 4 4 8  </p><p>Also have max Poison in swash tree.   </p><p>Keep in mind this is a soloing setup because I don't raid much.  I want maximum damage to end the fights quickly.  I don't have access to uber guild raid gear.</p><p>Currently level 57 Swash with 74 AA </p>

[AegisCrown]

str wis was a darn good line in kos now its best to go str/agi

[jaguarjp]

<cite>profpedantic wrote:</cite><blockquote>...<b>sure, it's not the super-dps that dual wield is, but it certainly puts out some dps and looks much cooler than dual wielding <span style="font-size: small;color: #ff0000;">2 piercing weapons and yet your toon swings them like clubs</span>...</b></blockquote>This right here is the main reason I hate piercing weapons, and when I *do* use one to keep my skill maxed, I use a sabre, since it still looks like a slasher.I mean, come on - even EQ1 has a freakin dedicated piercing attack animation.Oh, and back on topic - I solo alot, so until I start grouping consistently, I will stay in the WIS line for the +8 riposte. I seem to be putting out plenty of damage in offensive stance...

[Faenril]

For soloing wis is still pretty good due to extra defense. But grouping and raiding swashies only care about dps. My swashy has 99% DA self buffed with fencer build, not considering 10% extra DA from boots. So if I go fencer I waste my current boots slot (nothing better yet, waiting for the VP ones), and as soon as I group I waste the extra DA from group buffs. So there is no alternative to dual wielding for group/raid once you get end game gear.

[Keyh]

Yeah, WIS/STR used to be THE build to do whenever KoS first came out, but with the merge of Dual-wield weapons into 1-handers and that whole system changing, WIS is a decent line, but not the end all be all it used to be.That being said, you're obviously not going to get super leet DPS from a WIS build, but I use it because I solo alot and because I don't want to be like everyone else. Honestly, unless you're raiding, you don't really need to squeeze every little bit of DPS possible out of your Achievement spec. If you're a decent player, you could probably out DPS a good bit of PUG players with just about any spec.Here's what I'm running with WIS specced:WIS: 4-4-8-8-2STR: 4-4-8-8AGI: 4-4-4-7Haven't had any problems with it.

[Faenril]

Well, one can also go str/agi/wis, solo with one weapon, and equip a second weapon while grouping to benefit more from DA buffs...

[Olio]

<p>The problem with all these posts is that most of the posters look at the world through their eyes instead of the eyes of the person asking.  This whole post is old enough so I'm sure this is all irrelevant now, but wasn't the original poster in his 40's?  If so, every last one of you so called experts always said fencing was the way to go prior to RoK.  Statistically nothing has changed to affect that analysis.</p><p>Master crafted weapons - Better master crafted weapons in the lower levels make a good case for crit hits being more valuable, but they don't take away the value of DA or the number that say you do less damage with two good weapons based on time delays if you don't have enough DA.  I don't care how uber you ever were, none of you had anything like 30% DA ungrouped with a dual wielding spec at that level.</p><p>Summary, until you get into your 70's to 80th level, you are unlikely to have enough DA to parse better with dual over single wield (yes if you truly had the best gear from high end raiding it's possible - but most don't).  If you really care about maximizing that parse, you'll go dual wield in groups and raids once you hit about 20% or so with buffs.  If you're somewhere near that number and not much higher on DA, you still may be better off fencing for the extra defense while soloing.</p><p>For all you uber people that like to flame, be clear all this "advice" is not for you since I know every last one of you has VP Like loot and have loads of DA over 20%.  Reminder to all of you, there are many players not regularly getting VP loot.  In fact most of them looking for advice don't have it. </p>

[Keyh]

Actually, plenty has changed that affected the Fencing build since KoS, and, as I stated, the biggest thing is the change in how dual-wield works. Whenever KoS came out, a good one-handed weapon was better than 2 good dual-wield weapons if you specced WIS. Since they changed one-handed weapons and dual-wield weapons to be one and the same though, that has changed. a good one-hander is probably better than 2 "decent" one-handers.

[Thunndar316]

<p>I guess it really doesn't matter.  I'm not one to stare at parse sheets and try to squeeze every ounce of DPS out of my character.</p><p>I will just do what I like and if I'm short a couple hundred DPS then who cares? </p>

[Keyh]

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I guess it really doesn't matter. I'm not one to stare at parse sheets and try to squeeze every ounce of DPS out of my character.</p><p>I will just do what I like and if I'm short a couple hundred DPS then who cares? </p></blockquote>That's the spirit!

[Kelrizzo]

<p>LOL I still keep up on the post.  I had gone dual weild again for a bit and just didn't like it.  So, put it on Fox News, I'm the biggest mook in EQ2 and looking tough in my fencer stance <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Seriously though, I just find it more fun, and I haven't had one group ask me dual weild or fencer before letting me in.</p>