Current List of Swashbuckler Issues

[Ghalslayt]

Not that we seem to have too many but it'd be nice to list them here.1. Sleight of Hand still does not work as it says it does. Tested numerous times, still only rescues off the target, also has a chance to completely [Removed for Content] the hate list. No real practical applications in raid or groups due to the snap aggro control of guardians.2. Mythical not up to par with others. DoT effect overridden easily, 10% reduction to magical damage isnt noticeable at all, and can be over ridden by brigands. Possible changes that have been suggested:Move the 10% damage reduction to an actual swashbuckler skill.  Remove the DOT in favor of a DD effect.  Have the 8% hate boost made permenent.   Increase the damage reduction to more than 10%.  All around make the epic more class defining.  Feel free to add to this list.

[OutcastBlade]

<p>Our mythical is not class defining.- We have a DoT instead of a DD- Our hate xfer is a proc instead of a static effect.- Our lousy 10% debuff on CAs is even more lousy because its attached to a non class specific skill we have to spec for: Traumatic Swipe.- 10% increase in CA damage should be increased and should be moved to a proc or made situational. Swap it with hate xfer imo.So... What I would like to see.When Equipped    - Swarthy Disorder +8%     - Augments Lung Bleed: 20% decrease to target's CA damage    - On a successful attack, this weapon has a chance to:             - Inflicts 800-1200 magic damage     - 15% increase to caster's Combat Art damage.Obviously numbers would need to be balanced, we don't want to become OP, but the above changes are essentially the spirit of what I would like to see and is the root of my issue with this class.</p>

[Rippitt]

I hope to hell none of what you just said ever happens.

[OutcastBlade]

<p>So what you're saying is you like the epic Rippitt?</p><p>You know I really dislike posts like the one you just made because it doesn't put me in my place, it just makes me think you're a troll. Tell me why you think the kind of change I want to see is wrong. It most likely missed the bus for all I know.</p><p>Bottom line: I want the mythical changed. I don't want it more powerful. I just want it changed. </p>

[Rippitt]

I don't want it to become any less powerful than it already is.

[OutcastBlade]

Fine I changed it.

[Trojenn]

<p>Our mythical has nice stats, don't get me wrong. But the procs on the weapon are complete "I'll go ahead and say it ( I cannot control my vocabulary).</p><p>The 8% increase to Swarthy Disorder is nice but it being a proc is IMO not worth a ( I cannot control my vocabulary ).</p><p>The DoT effect does enough damage sure, but whats the since of making it a DoT if you know that we are constantly over righting it.</p><p>The 10% Increase to all CA's is again fine but why not make it apply to all CA's and Spells if your not going to increase the damage. Make it a 10% increase to everything.. Procs - Poisons - CA's . <--- Wouldn't be OP.</p><p>And the 10% reduction to Enemy's CA's .. well spells rather .. is worthless IMO.. Reasoning: You can get your resists high enough to mitigate any spell AoE and also you can run Reprieves. What hurts the most to all classes minus higher mitigation classes is the Crushing/Piercing/Slashing damage AoE's</p><p>Sleight of Hand : Hmm.. daring to touch this subject again in fear they may completely brake it again. The spell reads in tricks the aponent into switching hate on its current target with yours. and also detaunts/tauns fighter vs other classes. The spell does yank agro from anyone you target if they have agro, but it does not always put the hate on someone if you have it. I have also as previously mentioned had this spell completely [Removed for Content] the hate list against everyone.</p>

[alch4mist]

<p>Rippitt</p><p>My reading is that most swashies posting on the Mythical epic thread dont necessarily want to make it less (or for that matter more) powerful but for it to be CLASS defining ..... </p><p>Having said that can only think posting on this subject and that of the SoH are deft issues - very unlikely to get a response from devs so would be more productive whistling in the wind </p>

[Katanalla]

<p>The mythical is pathetic, and sleight of hand I only have mastered because guild higher ups didn't want it to drop ever again due to smart loot in shard of hate. The numbers for actual hate gain/loss to target hardly does crap and for a lot of people is lower than their auto attack damage. The mythical doesn't really help all that much due to hate xfer being on a proc, and 10% spell damage hardly does anything at all and wow, I still see people dying to AOEs.</p><p>The whole mythical situation is kind of a joke among scouts (and a few others) to be honest, its not about class defining but what class the unsaid dev wants to be better than everyone else almost 100% guarenteed.</p>

[Rippitt]

There's nothing really wrong with our proc effect. You realize that you guys complaining about the hate transfer being a proc and the damage being a DoT are heavily contradicting yourselves. If the DoT is 'so' unbearable because it's overwriting itself, then the hate transfer would be a full time effect in your situation, right? Our damage effect on our proc is actually better than all other scout classes.<p>For example:Fang of Ichor : 616 - 923Eagle's Talon : 433 - 650Havoc, Blade of Treachery : 547 - 821Charm's Way : 456 - 684 @ 0s, 616 - 923 @ 3s, 776 - 1162 @ 6s, 936 - 1401 @ 9s, 1096 - 1640 @ full duration</p><p>So, while I guess it sucks that there's a chance that for a short time our hate transfer might be only exactly as effective as a certain other scout class, we are getting nearly double their proc damage in most cases. The DoT proc really shines on aoe encounters when it happens to proc with hurricane, allowing it in most cases to run it's full duration on the mobs that it hits.</p><p>Now, for some real world examples, I have imported log files from a recent PR raid to try and figure out what our 'true' proc rate looks like on this weapon. Keep in mind this is a zone that is moderatly AoE (hurricane) friendly, and as such we are likely getting more weapon procs rolling due to that, skewing the results toward 'more procs than normal'. I left the last mob out in case the 15 seconds of invulnerability could skew the results.</p><p>Total raid dps: 99,844Sorcerer 8886Predator 8190Sorcerer 7010Rippitt 6935 (I sucked that day <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)Enchanter 6108</p><p>Total duration: 6:23 (383 seconds)Total Swarthy Chaos hits: 138 (2 resisted)Total Swarthy Chaos procs: 50Average ppm: 7.8/minAverage duration: 7.66 seconds</p><p>Now, here is the data from a trash merge from VP Wing 2 - all single target fights.</p><p>Total duration: 29:55 (1795 seconds)Total Swarthy Chaos hits: 428 (13 resisted)Total Swarthy Chaos procs: 146Average ppm: 4.8/minAverage duration: 12.29 seconds (whoa!)</p><p>These results speak for themselves but any of you are welcome to post conflicting data.</p>

[Trojenn]

First of all, I am not going to go against you on single target data. But your stating that Hurricane will land the dot on Multiple encounters.. Hmm.. Last time i checked a proc could not proc a proc.  So if Hurricane is a proc.. 55% chance..= proc, and the DoT is a proc. then Hurricane will not land the DoT on a mob hit with Hurricane.. am I wrong, if so please show me were they changed the procs not procing procs change at.. please and thank you..

[AegisCrown]

<cite>121 dirtybird wrote:</cite><blockquote>First of all, I am not going to go against you on single target data. But your stating that Hurricane will land the dot on Multiple encounters.. Hmm.. Last time i checked a proc could not proc a proc. So if Hurricane is a proc.. 55% chance..= proc, and the DoT is a proc. then Hurricane will not land the DoT on a mob hit with Hurricane.. am I wrong, if so please show me were they changed the procs not procing procs change at.. please and thank you..</blockquote>its our autoattack hitting multiple encounters, guess what they count as a primary hands firts autoattack swing and will proc procs

[Rippitt]

Indeed, hurricane is not a proc, it's treated exactly like an auto attack, which is the main reason our AoE dps can be so strong when all the planets are aline and we happen to hurricane a ton of auto attack cycles in a row while all the mobs are standing in a perfect position.

[Kiara]

Stickied so that this would be easier to keep updated.

[Trojenn]

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Stickied so that this would be easier to keep updated.</blockquote>Lol, you moved it and I think we lost it lol.. Anyways.. thanks for the attention.. Maybe we can get some more of that from a certain other Dec.. Thanks Kiara.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[AegisCrown]

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>Stickied so that this would be easier to keep updated.</blockquote>sure now we can be reminded daily that the developers pay no attention to our class.   i wonder if aeralik will ever care about another combination other the DE assassin since thats what he plays.

[Kiara]

<cite>Coel@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>sure now we can be reminded daily that the developers pay no attention to our class.   i wonder if aeralik will ever care about another combination other the DE assassin since thats what he plays.</blockquote>There's no need to be rude.  If you'd prefer I can remove the thread entirely.No?  Didn't think so.  Now everyone, including the developers can easily access your issues.I suggest you make use of it.

[Trojenn]

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>There's no need to be rude.  If you'd prefer I can remove the thread entirely.No?  Didn't think so.  Now everyone, including the developers can easily access your issues.I suggest you make use of it.</blockquote><p>So in other words are you hinting at the fact that this will actualy be responded too. I meen we can keep this thread as civil as possible but after the 50+ posts in the Items and Equipments ( GU47 Epic Weapons Update) thread and the 50+ posts in the In Testing Feedback thread on Epic Weapons, I think the Swashbucklers are fairly upseat that not only do we feel were getting ignored but to take the only response we got from Aeralik was a Biased and stereotyping reply on what "Raid Guilds" require for his justification was just a complete joke. I am not trying to be rude, but working for Dell Customer Support, if i were to give a response " for comparison " that the reason we install this software instead of what the customer ( Who is paying for the help ) wants is because certain business's use it, would get me fired. As a customer support rep. I have to help the customer and do my hardest to take into consideration of what they want to try and fix the issue. Now I understand we are not talking about programs and computers, I understand that the Developers of EQ2 have to keep certain things in line to keep the mechanics of the game working properly. But with that being said we are not asking for you to give us something that is Over Powered or something that would throw the Swashbucklers out of line with what we are supposed to be, we are just simply asking for a few changes to what is currently on the weapon to be moved around and beafed up a little bit. That is all we are asking for. Please take this into consideration Kiara. and please try to get the Weapons Developer to understand our concerns as we have felt we have been ignored by Aeralik.</p><p>Thank you.</p>

[AegisCrown]

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Coel@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>sure now we can be reminded daily that the developers pay no attention to our class. i wonder if aeralik will ever care about another combination other the DE assassin since thats what he plays.</blockquote>There's no need to be rude. If you'd prefer I can remove the thread entirely.No? Didn't think so. Now everyone, including the developers can easily access your issues.I suggest you make use of it.</blockquote>im sorry that after repeated posting in threads as well as sending personal messages that we still have yet to get a real response to our issue.  everyone knows that the developers are biased, i thought the epic revamp was supposed to fix that but apparently it not only fell short but it actually made some epics worse then they are (see brigand mythical).   we are used to getting the short end of the stick and not being paid attention to but when the whole community is crying for the same thing you think that the development team would get the hint and not continue to ignore us like they are.   and im sorry if i was rude toward aeralik but when he makes posts about our class showing next to zero knowledge it scares me that he has an impact on our class.

[alch4mist]

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Coel@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>sure now we can be reminded daily that the developers pay no attention to our class.   i wonder if aeralik will ever care about another combination other the DE assassin since thats what he plays.</blockquote>There's no need to be rude.  If you'd prefer I can remove the thread entirely.No?  Didn't think so.  Now everyone, including the developers can easily access your issues.I suggest you make use of it.</blockquote><p>Kiara </p><p>Can you please clarify if there are any other options open to us to resolve what a lot of people here percieve to be complete disregard by Devs to paying customers concerns. Is there a right of appeal or some other higher placed officer in SoE that we can lodge an appeal?    On the other hand does customer care mean so little to you?</p><p>In summary we are merely looking for a debate with the dev - a 2 way communication! - is it too much to ask? </p>

[OutcastBlade]

Thanks Kiara.You can tell though that my fellow swashbucklers are bitter. I don't think that their bitterness stems solely from being ignored, but from the fact that, as one of my esteemed colleagues brought up, the responses demonstrate a clear lack of knowledge and common sense with regards to the swashbuckler class.But I'd like to thank you for stickying this. I really think the only time we are ever going to get closure on this is when Aeralik is done with the current list of revamps, but I am not sure about what he's going to say... actually no I am quite sure what he's gonna say: "<span style="color: #ff0000;">The swashbuckler class is specialized in crowd control with the mezz ability they have and currently they can also mezz epic targets. As such we put a DoT on the epic to help the swashy with the hopes of augmenting the mezz ability and to make them more desirable in raids. DoTs don't break mezz, so you can like totally damage the mob while it just stands there LOL. We also understand that swashbucklers possess the healing power of laughter so we are going to put on your epic an ability to proc everytime you make someone laugh at your epic, this proc will heal the group for 65 points of damage. One more thing, to help with group desirability swashbucklers now have a group buff on their epic that works in the following way. Assassins get 50% increase in CA damage and reduced reuse time on Execute, while everyone else get 50% decrease in CA damage. This will like totally allow the swashbuckler to manage hate for the entire raid force better. The CA damage reduction is now moved to the Feign Death ability, because all raiding swashies should have Feign Death...</span><span style="color: #ff0000;">-Aeralik</span>"And so the crowds rejoiced.PS.) Aeralik change our epic to be more class defining. Prove my prediction wrong.

[Ghalslayt]

Don't attack the new community manager because of what the devs are, or are not doing, she's not a dev. Thank you Kiara for stickying it. If we want anything to change we can't act like whining bitter babies, it got stickied, now let's be constructive. The only other thing I can think of is not to continue attacking Aer(nameicanneverspell) even if we percieve he is biased, I'm not his biggest fan but I know attacking someone won't get anyone what they want. That being said.....How many swashbucklers are still in the main tank group? This is just a curiosity thing.The 10% reduction in skills is bunk, I believe Koldsteel said in the actual epic forum, "If you can survive an aoe at 100% damage 90% isnt going to do much for you anyways" Thats paraphrasing a bit but the point is still there. If our primary role is DPS and then Utility, the Utility of this skill needs to be changed and as everyone has already said, added to an actual swashbuckler skill. Many suggestions for which skill have been made and are all excellent. 10% boost to combat arts. The only reason this is nice, is if you have a bloodthirsty choker to continue boosting the effect. Our CA's hit for very little compared to our other dps scout counterparts and I would prefer not to rely on another item that has the same effect as our mythical.These are my opinions if you disagree, please post why, don't call me a nub, it wont get anything accomplished.

[Kiara]

I can't force anyone to do anything.  All I can do is make it as easy as possible for the developers to see what the big issues are with your class from your point of view.I suggest that you make things as constructive and clear as possible.  Keeping everything consolidated into one thread helps them to know where to look for information about what you guys need and want.So in short, yes, I care a great deal.  I can't wave a magic wand and make everyone happy.  Nor can I go in and fix balance issues.  I'm not a developer, which is a good thing, because I'd make everyone a dark elf and purple and sparkly <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Oxie]

<cite>Kiara wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm not a developer, which is a good thing, because I'd make everyone a dark elf and purple and sparkly <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p>I'd be willing to bet that a big % of people (esp. poison using scouts) would take you up on your offer to be turned into dark elves, only because of how the dark elf race got way better racial traditions than most of the other races. </p>

[Delow]

I agree with this issues list as it stands currently. We dont have a lot of issues but we would like to get a response from Developers about what we do have. I want to see our Epic proc changed to:A Comparable DD instead of a DoTHate Transfer PermenantSwipe effect moved to Lung Bleed and the percentage increased and changed to affect all damage output.

[sikuno]

Yeah did anyone fail to mention the brigand 15% DA proc.. Hmm... I may need to reroll or betray.

[Splatty_Spat]

I am kind of dissapointed in gu47 - some nice changes - LOVE the new voice chat - hate the fact Swashbucklers got totally ignored with regards to their epic. I hope this thread is worthwhile.

[Rhym]

<cite>sikuno wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah did anyone fail to mention the brigand 15% DA proc.. Hmm... I may need to reroll or betray.</blockquote>the 15% DA is the first good thing we received since KoSbut i still wish that swashs get at least one good effect on their epic aswell theres a lot of stuff we brigs would like to have you swashys got especially stuff from your AA tree the gras is still greener on the swash side

[sikuno]

<p>lol, not saying anything negative about Brigands.. I know we get some kinda cool stuff on our AA Tree's but even Reach is now no longer applicable in PvP.. /cry.. what are we going to do now. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .. </p><p>Still though I have to say that Brigands got some love on there Epic... I meen sheesh even the fabled one is sick. 9 DA pluss an additional 8% on a proc.. and with the way that brigands and swashi's procs are always up.. so in actuality you have about a 17% DA on the "FABLED EPIC" .. oh well, I am quite sure that swash's will get some in the next couple of updates like when we get level 100 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Rhym]

fabled one has no static dabut i definatley support swashbuckler epic improvement

[sikuno]

Did the Fabled Version not make it to live. It did have a 8% DA proc on Fabled with 15% DA proc on Mythical.. hmm.. wonder why they didn't implement it .... ... .. .

[Rhym]

the fable version made it live es witha 8% DA proc but the fabled version has only 4 melee crit static only the mythical version gets 9% DA plus the 15% DA proc a total of 24% DA on the MYTHICAL THE FABLED ONE has only the 8% DA PROC plus 4 MELEE CRIT STATICim not a swashbuckler but I was once a Swashbuckler , I do find it absurd to have an ability on the epic thats shared with another class this is so totally beyond me why devs are so stuborn and not move it to one of the class defining CAs , plus the value has to be raised to 20% , 10% is just not accetaple (this is the class defining ability on the epic)the hate transfer proc needs to be completley removed this is another absurd idea like the haste proc we had turn it into  melee crit proc lets say 10% at least raise the base ca dmg modifier to 15/20% sounds sort of reasonable to me

[OutcastBlade]

<cite>Rhymez wrote:</cite><blockquote>im not a swashbuckler but I was once a Swashbuckler , I do find it absurd to have an ability on the epic thats shared with another class this is so totally beyond me why devs are so stuborn and not move it to one of the class defining CAs , plus the value has to be raised to 20% , 10% is just not accetaple (this is the class defining ability on the epic)the hate transfer proc needs to be completley removed this is another absurd idea like the haste proc we had turn it into melee crit proc lets say 10% at least raise the base ca dmg modifier to 15/20% sounds sort of reasonable to me </blockquote>Class defining skill and greater reduction to CA: Yes I agree... Hate Xfer to be removed: Hell no. It's a great proc, with the only problem being that its a proc. But looking at the numbers from not only my own parse but also from what has been posted by Rippitt, it gets better and better the further you progress through raiding, AND when you get your myth it procs right after the effect ends meaning the hate xfer is almost permanent.Raise the base CA damage modifier?: Yes I agree...Not only do I want my epic to be class defining, but I want it to deliver the same amount of umph as the other epics.Thanks for coming on here and supporting us. We need all the help we can get. Right now I am let down by the rest of the swashy community, since this thread has only reached page 3 and I can't help but picture Aeralik sitting in his office, pointing at the screen, and saying "Lulz Noob!"

[Katanalla]

<p>brigs got the DA proc I believe... </p><p><span style="font-size: xx-small;color: #685c5a;"><span style="color: #291f1e;">assassines get the batmobile, brigs get the batcopter, we get the batscooter, woot batscooter!</span></span></p>

[Ghalslayt]

I would'nt mind the hate transfer being removed completely to be honest.  With as easy as it is to cap hate and transfers, and the snap aggro ability guardians have there's almost no point to it.  Kind of along the same lines that sleight of hand is pointless because of all the other aggro tools in the game.

[Mizou]

Heya,well i have a few Issues, some with the game at all and some with my Class.I first begin with general game issues since a year ( not exactly) Race, there where made a few changes so a Race now has special things others dont have. Some Races are better for Scouts some better for others... so at all i want to change my race since that change second, why do all but a few classes get their lvl 35 spells upgraded so they can master it easily. I see the point that a huge haste / dps buff should not get upgraded, so why dont lower the amount of haste / dps in low lvl and rase it with upgrades like other spells ?and last but not least why do we need lvl 52, 61, 67 Spells in t8 still.... just like i said lower the amount they give atm and increase it to a lvl 7x spell like the amount is now !?!?!so to the class i love to play since i started playing:Shorttime buffs have higher Castingtime then other scoutsOur epic is realy weak - i like the dot, but the rest sry but plz change it like the suggestions in this threadSleight of Hands is the worst spell ever, i only can use it if hideaway is down to get aggro back to a tank or wipe mages with a melee aoe (haha) or wipe the whole raid because u crap aggro and deaggro to the next highest position (brig, assa, wizard, what ever)15 of my AA are just wasted for either like 30 dps or 800-1k hp... we have nothing like spellcrit or such dps boosts at all i want to say i like to be a swashbuckler and maybe the devs dont want to change some things cause else nobody needs to play lower tiers,(/sarcasm) but as a raider i need to say why should i play lower lvls ? for waisting my time ? cool i want do waist my time so i can never go out and have a RL well end /sarcasmmaybe somebody could explain it to me at valor.mizou why there need to be lower lvl masters needed for a high tier raider. and maybe tell me why my myth doesnt fourth attack <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[sikuno]

<p>Eh, I am guessing you may not be from the US with your grammar but I have managed to grasp everything you have said. Allot of the current Swashbucklers would be fairly upset if they were to all of a sudden Rearange certain spells so that they could be upgraded by tiers.. Personaly I like them being were there at. Can anyone imagine what a t8 swashbuckler master that increases DPS/Haste by 80+ would go for.. or a T8 version of Ruthless Cunning. Yes I honestly agree that when the spells were originaly created it was fairly ignorant to make them 1 level and not scale up but on the contrary PLEASE DO NOT change it on us. </p><p>As for the Swash Epic Weapon, I have still yet to recieve a reply on it...</p>

[Dreadpatch]

I've really been trying to get over SoH, but I just can't. I didn't want to ever post on it again, but it just doesn't do anything. I've tried using is several times at this point and all it does is rescue as far as I can tell. It's awful..... I want to start griping to get it changed again, and really don't see how it could be more useless than it already is tbh. It's not clever, it's not cool, and the fixes to it have not been appropriate. I would rather have an illusion form at this point, even a fun spell that makes you look like the lead character in The Princess Bride would be better. I really think that swashies are well aligned in game for the most part, and are very far from a broken class. But the SoH is just so lame. They are readily available on broker for dirt cheap. Honestly, was the spell created for transmuters?

[Mizou]

so u say u would rather like only an a3 version and 2 years of farming a master then paying like 1k plat ? i make 1k plat in 1-2 month.... and farm since 1,5 years a master i will never ever seewell anyways its a swashy forumall i want is a change like previous poster said to the epicsoh changed to a spell like give me an illusion which would be better (jk) i dont know what would improve a swashy - shortime group buff maybe ? *g*and shortime casttimes reduced...

[Xivain]

IMHO... we should've got the OP crap the assassin myth did the 15% chance to autoattack multiply instead of that damned pos dot...when did swashies ever have a dot...wtfwtf, on any note it says it on our fun spell weapon blur and the character description about striking so fast, finesse blah blah blah.

[Faenril]

I guess our new AA tree will have a slot for "Enhance DOTs" <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[sikuno]

<p>Woot to enhancing dots and I guess the new AA Tress will make On Guard a dot proc instead of DD.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> oh yes..</p><p>COMPLETE SARCASM>..</p>

[Davhanama]

<p>Just a quick question.</p><p>Why are people whining about what other classes got?  Our class might not be perfect, and yes, things could be better.  If you have complaints or concerns, try to express them in a constructive way.  If I was a dev, I certainly would stop reading this thread after seeing all the sarcasm here.</p><p>Oh, I have played a swashy since launch as my main.  Enjoy playing the toon as much now as I did when I started.  Yes, I know things could be improved. But I am having to much fun playing my swashy to worry that much about it.</p><p>Peace, love, and good elvish wine to all.</p>

[Faenril]

Well, the point is ppl have been posting thread after thread about our epic weapon issues and no action was taken. Some posts have been constructive with interesting proposals. After a while when you try one approach (the constructive one) and it does not work, you have to switch to another approach. Some may quit, some may deal with it silently, some will keep trying the nice way, and some will make fun of the situation and be sarcastic. Nothing wrong with that really IMO <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[RingleToo]

<p>It's not that our complaints about SoH have been ignored. The reason no real action has been taken is simply because Aerilak doesn't agree that it needs to be changed. He's said in this thread <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=45&topic_id=417202" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=417202</a></p><p>"I will agree its a purely situational spell.  It's not something you will use every time its up.  Swashies are usually fairly high up the list though if you think about it.  Say a main tank dies.  Once he is rezzed you can swap and he goes from 0 hate to wherever the swash was.  Now rescue and some taunts can help get it back.  Maybe a wizard overnukes and you can use it and then deaggro yourself to give it back to the tank.  Another spot is when the hate shuffles or like you guys say they mem wipe.  Again, I realize it is situational and not going to be something you have on your primary hotbar or run out to buy the master 1 of but it does fit in with the class...</p><p>I don't think swashbuckler's are alone in this.  Not every spell is going to have the worth of a summoner's pet, bolt of ice, a backstab or a primary heal.  Scanning the broker though every class has a few that fall into this category and they are largely situational or non primary use spells...</p><p>Like I said above its not going to be something you use everytime its up. It's a situational spell that does have its uses though.  If you have suggestions that keep the general theme then I am open to making it better and more useable but it's not going to change into some sort of attack."  </p><p>I don't agree with his reasoning but, at least, he has answered why there are no current plans to change SoH.</p>

[Dreadpatch]

Yes we did get a response to SoH, although half arssed. We also offered additional suggestions that would keep the spell in line with it's original intention but might actually do something semi-useful. The only thing Aerolik supposedly did to "improve" the spell is increase the hate generated. In it's current state, I can't find that it does anything beside a semi-effective rescue. The spell sucks incredibly bad, and is still completely useless except for muter fodder. You can't give them away on my server. My coercer 80 spell, puppetmasters, still sucks too,but it at least serves some purpose soloing. You can hit your melee reactive and send in puppetmaster for some nice solo spike damage. I have the master version, because I basically got it for free. It still does nothing. So does the level 80 assassin class specific master do nothing too? Just curious.

[Dreadpatch]

Just checked it's Fatal Followup... Wow the highest dps class in the game that a certain dev plays has what I would consider to be a pretty sweet level 80 spell. It will double the damage of a stealthed nuke. Convenient.

[OutcastBlade]

SoH is very useful and it can be used every encounter.<div></div><div>Target lowest dpser in the raid, hit SoH, you swap hate positions. You are now near the bottom of the list. So now you will never rip if you keep this up, AND if MT dies and the assassins and wizzies die above you, it will prolly target the crappy dpser instead of you meaning you can most likely survive til coercer memwipes.</div><div></div><div>Basically just before i pop a bunch of temp buffs for a burn, I target someone, hit SoH and then retarget MA.</div>

[Davhanama]

<p>Thanks for the responses.  I hope none of you thought I was taking shots at my fellow swashys..I was just trying to understand the issues without reading through multiple threads.  I agree SoH is for the most part not used.  It will be intersting what the new AA lines do ofr our class. (oh, and everyone else should remember that we are the best class in the game <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Peace, Love, and even more good elven wine</p>

[Dreadpatch]

We can agree to disagree on the usefullness of SoH Kanolth, in it's current state it pretty much sucks. I don't raid, so it's usefulness to me is nil in every way shape and form. I have yet to even get it to work tbh, it's usefulness is limited at best. SoH for the loss, there are quite a few swashies on my server with several masters that sit and rot on the broker for next to no plat. Others apparently must feel the same way I do about it. I tried to use it/ like it, but it = epic fail. Can I please have Fatal Followup instead? I know I only have a couple of stealthed attacks that don't do 20 to 40k, but I would rather have the secondary damage on those then a spell that swaps hate.... Sometimes when it works.

[OutcastBlade]

No, Dreadpatch. You are right. I am just saying its got its uses.It is no Fatal Followup.Swashies are a dps class, they deserve a dps end ability.

[DngrMou]

<p>You know....this whole SoH thing makes me feel kinda bad for the plat farmers.  It must be exhilarating to see a level 80 master drop, and what a letdown later, when they find out they can only get 7 plat for it on the broker.</p>

[boogeyman13]

<p>I would be happy to see the tramatic swipe removed as it is not a swashbuckler only ability. It also may not be getting spec'ed as much with the aggro changes to the tanks the int line may become more popular. I would rather see hurricane be altered so that with the mythical, it would allow the CA's to hurricane giving a change to land not only the damage but the debuffs helping moderate the damge the tank's take. Hurricane can only hit a max of 4 tagets at a taime so I am not sure if this would make us over powered but it is an idea, I still don't have an idea for the proc effect it's tough one, point blank AOE or encounter AOE. I would like to hear arguments for both.</p>