Warden an' Healen

[Diel]

A valuable lesson I learned was to ask for help from others and admit mistakes in order to better yourself. I made and came to understand my beloved main(Ratonga Swashbuckler) thanks to asking others for helpful tips and the 411 on things.I'm now looking for a character to play when I need a break from my swashie. I'm trying to figure out if I should go Fury or Warden.If I go Warden, I have the questions to ask. I've been looking here and on EQ2Flames for FAQ's and such on how to play. I always notice that theres tons of guides for AA's and end-game, but none or barely any on start-game. I did notice two guides and they answered a few questions. But I'm asking again just for a few reasons... those guys are out-dated and possible changes may have happened. That and I just wanted to be sure and 100% on things.What stats do you go for on a Warden, and what would the priority(i.e. for Swashbuckler AGI, STR, INT, STA, WIS) be? I'd like to hear the answer for each build.What gear should I go for? Leather or Cloth? Normal Leather or Rare Cloth?What's recommended or good weapon and ranged-wise?I'd also love to hear about achievements. I'd love help understand possible builds and just how they work with the Warden, I hope I can learn enough to help me eventually be good enough to make my own build for my own preferences.

[Serotonin]

That depends on your playstyle and what kind of server you play on (pve or pve)Your 3 main stats will usually always be sta/wis/int (or in some cases str)The order of those stats depends alot on your playstyle. For strict pve I would suggest wis/int/sta and for pvp wis/sta/int. Int can be replaced by str if you want to try out a meleewarden for example. Int and Str is only used as a damage modifier on a druid, wis is powerpool and resists and sta is hp.Furies are bit heavier in the dps department, especially in the lower tiers, the damage output from any druid declines alot as you get closer to tier 8 though.The biggest difference imho is that furies has a bit more offensive buffs/utility while wardens has more defensive utilities, like group death prevention and purity. The furies heals are burst heals while the wardens heals in general are smaller but comes with a small heal over time that is applied to it, which in general is considered better for alot of purposes.When it comes to AA, I would suggest getting the improved crit in the int tree first and then work on cutting down reusetimers on dots and nukes in the fury subtree (energy).For a warden I would suggest starting out by getting improved crit in int tree, and then its really up to you what you want to specc, you cant really spec offensive stuff unless you turn it into a meleewarden, the stamina tree is a really good pick though for improved healing.If you want to try out a meleewarden I would suggest saving up some points first by playing as a caster and then respecc and max out the str tree and the combat arts in the warden subclass tree. The reason you might want to play as a caster first and then respec is cause I think having both the str tree and the combat arts maxed out is needed to be really effective.

[Dragonreal]

Actually, if you're going to go for a melee warden build, start in the wardens tree first and foremost (the one that opens with Fire Strike). Put the minimum amount of points needed in each skill there to get down to Force of Nature (75% melee crits). And it's better imo to just start off right away in that tree for three reasons: the skills will scale with you every level, you don't need to have the actual spell equivalent to get the skill (ie you can get whirl of frost long before 32 when you would normally get your first encounter ae), and lastly, you won't ever have to upgrade any of the nukes (though I do think the spell version of our dot is better because the elemental debuff on it at m1 is better than the AA version, but only at m1 quality).Once you've gotten the 75% melee crits, go down the druid str tree (somewhere in there, if you want to spare the 5 points, max out the sow AA in ther warden AAs) to get 8 in the double attacks and 6-8 in the group heal proc; the end line attack isn't bad either, but it's not neccessary. Once you've got at the very least maxed out double attacks, go back to the wardens tree and fill out the AA attacks and wolf buff to 5 points each, then just do as you will with the rest of your points (I recommend movement and renewal in the warden AAs and agi/stam in the druid AAs as a final, level 80 setup).

[Arielle Nightshade]

<p>For gear - leather always.  I cant' think of one cloth item that has good enough stats to go to a type of armor that gives you less protection...not at the lower levels.  High level there are one or two caster robes that up casting speed that I'd consider, but lower levels you go for the more basic things.</p><p>Best quality you can afford - which would mean rare leather ..if you can harvest it or buy it.   For weapons - crafted "Blessed" weapons are really good at the lower levels.  You want one crushing and one slashing - which you can only wield one at a time, but you have both skills so you want to keep both appropriately leveled.</p><p>The above is true if you go either Warden or Fury - you just look for slightly different stats (INT vs. STR) if you are melee - fury doesn't have the melee option.</p><p>Priests cant use ranged weapons.  In that slot we put a buckler or symbol for either protection or stats - depending on how we are spec'd.</p><p>Cookie cutter healer build is STA/AGI (those are the two lines with non-melee heal crits) and INT.  Cookie cutter melee build is STR/STA/AGI, with the Warden tree AA's perfectly described by Ryala (post above).  Luckily, AA's are versatile enough that it's not like WoW...where if you don't have an exact build for your spec, you can forget it.    There's a little room for seeing how it works with your own playstyle.</p><p>Your spec will differ quite a lot if you are melee than if you are nuke spec'd.  One build is very similar to what any other melee class would do: focus on STR and combat art damage crits.  The other focuses on Spell damage and INT.</p><p>Hope this helps.  It's one thing to give advice, it's another to outline step by step how you should proceed - simply because everyone plays differently and some things you just need to see for yourself.</p>

[Oakum]

<cite>Dragonrealms wrote:</cite><blockquote>Actually, if you're going to go for a melee warden build, start in the wardens tree first and foremost (the one that opens with Fire Strike). Put the minimum amount of points needed in each skill there to get down to Force of Nature (75% melee crits). And it's better imo to just start off right away in that tree for three reasons: the skills will scale with you every level, you don't need to have the actual spell equivalent to get the skill (ie you can get whirl of frost long before 32 when you would normally get your first encounter ae), and lastly, you won't ever have to upgrade any of the nukes (though I do think the spell version of our dot is better because the elemental debuff on it at m1 is better than the AA version, but only at m1 quality).Once you've gotten the 75% melee crits, go down the druid str tree (somewhere in there, if you want to spare the 5 points, max out the sow AA in ther warden AAs) to get 8 in the double attacks and 6-8 in the group heal proc; the end line attack isn't bad either, but it's not neccessary. Once you've got at the very least maxed out double attacks, go back to the wardens tree and fill out the AA attacks and wolf buff to 5 points each, then just do as you will with the rest of your points (I recommend movement and renewal in the warden AAs and agi/stam in the druid AAs as a final, level 80 setup).</blockquote><p>I wouldnt worry about the dot/debuff CA too much if at all. I use the spell version due to the debuff being much more important then the dot portion.  If the nuke is resisted, you have a couple of second recast time for a resisted spell. If the CA is parried, then the full timer is in effect and you lose the debuff. Also the nuke version last longer then the CA version. </p><p>If you are choosing a class for fun, then choose warden. </p><p>Wardens are more defensive then a fury only really applies at the high levels in the self buff since most of the other things soe call defensive are either useless in a group or raid setup. Like wisdom/agility buffs for a group when most players at high end are past the effective cap due to diminishing returns. Fury's do decently buff dps for their group and have a true "druids" dps unlike wardens so their groups can clear content faster.</p><p>Also the death prevention works better with the 2 trigger AA upgrade but is still very situational. Both in group and raid, normally the tank just ends up "dying" 2 or 3 times or the spikes stop and/or the regens/other healers keep the tank up anyway so the cast is wasted and they are down for their full timer. I still attempt to use them but that is just me. Some wardens dont even put them on their hot bar. </p><p>Both druid lack any decent tank buffs although most tanks like our plus ranged, ect spell since they can hit slightly better when they are in defensive stance. It is pretty much wasted on any tank or scout in offensive stance though with diminishing returns. </p><p>Both druids have pretty equal temp tank and group buffs they can cast some of which stun us although they are different in effect. Fury's can add a  huge temp mit to the tank, wardens can use sandstorm (lvl 50 plus) to proc short knockdown/stuns on the tank. </p><p>Both druids have roots so they can root/nuke a tough mob (or root/ca for the melee warden) that other non rooting classes might have problems with. Shaman and clerics can tank them sometimes but that is neither here not there. Druids where leather so we have reinforced (with self buff) plastic mitigation. </p><p>Now if you plan on raiding, fury's are set up to be more practical. Their direct heals are (small and large single target) all DH and not half dh/half regen like a wardens so having 2 fury's in a raid is not wasting half of the heals put on the MT on hard mobs. Furys also are prefered for mage or mage/melee hybrid groups for their dps buffs.</p><p>Wardens pretty much have only one place in a raid and that is in the MT group unless the raid is short on healers due to wardens overwriting half of each other DH's on the MT and not having any useful group buffs except for certain fights that have high heat/cold damage </p>

[Dragonreal]

<cite>Oakum wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Wardens pretty much have only one place in a raid and that is in the MT group unless the raid is short on healers due to wardens overwriting half of each other DH's on the MT and not having any useful group buffs except for certain fights that have high heat/cold damage </p></blockquote>Thought it was designed (and tested out to be true) LONG ago that our regens from the direct heals only stacked with another warden's? That's why there's no maintained buff for those regens (supposedly). If you're not sure/haven't tested that, I'd like to test it (since we're on the same server, there shouldn't really be an issue doing that) then because I remember it being a big issue we had with the changes made to our heals back in LU13 and it being found out that they do in fact stack so that we're not wasting heals like that.

[Arielle Nightshade]

<cite>Oakum wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Also the death prevention works better with the 2 trigger AA upgrade but is still very situational. Both in group and raid, normally the tank just ends up "dying" 2 or 3 times or the spikes stop and/or the regens/other healers keep the tank up anyway so the cast is wasted and they are down for their full timer. I still attempt to use them but that is just me. Some wardens dont even put them on their hot bar. </p></blockquote><p>Couldn't disagree with you more, Oakum!  Not only do we have 2 triggers, but we have 2 triggers on 2 death interventions - single target and group.   I use them ALL the time - both in raid and in group.     Last night, for example, we got into a bad patch in deep Chardok, and only Tunare's Watch saved us from wiping and having to start all over to get to the bottom.   DI's were working overtime there - and worked consistently every time.</p><p>It's true that you cast them and they are 'down for their full timer' even if they weren't needed, but that timer is only 4ish minutes and the single target is 6.  (I am sure the single target timer with AA spec is broken - I feedback it regularly).    </p><p>At this point, the only reason the tank or whomever you put either or both of those on ..dies repeatedly because there wasn't healing happening after they trigger.  If the spell is wasted, I think that's fine.  If it was needed, it saved the day.   Every other healers' DIs are the same in that regard - just we have 4 chances at it.</p><p>I can't imagine not having these on my hotbar.  I DID have them off my hotbar back when they were broken (2ish years ago) but they've been mostly fixed...the timer reduction with AA's on the single target being the only 'iffy' issue.</p>

[Diel]

It's cool to hear back on this. I definitely have been thinking of going Warden over Fury. Fury sounds a wee bit overrated compared to Warden. Plus I want to contribute a bit.Thanks, guys and gals.

[Diel]

Pardon the double post, but what about AGI if you're a Melee Warden? Wouldn't that help for dodging hits, considering that you're in leather?

[Arielle Nightshade]

<p>It's not AGI that does it, it's your Wolf buff when you hit 20.   That you are in leather is kind of incidental - since that helps your mitigation quite a bit.    The stat increase that even 8 points in AGI will give you is pretty minor.  You'd choose AGI for the heal crit at almost the end of the line and for the shield block Tortoise Shell - charm animal on the way to those things is kind of nice, helpful for soloing, but situational to actually meleeing and healing.</p><p>Standard melee build is STR/STA/AGI, though...however you choose to allocate points there to suit your style.  INT and WIS don't really bring anything helpful to the melee'ing Warden.</p><p>We don't dodge so much as heal through any hit we get - which is why the focus increase in the STA line is so nice, IMO.</p>