Coercer vs Illusionist.

[BiggiEQ2]

<p>Not PvP, purely for soloing 1-80, which is more suited for the job?  I don't know what coercers bring to the table in groups either, and I only know a little about illusionists.</p><p>But, simple, who has the easier ride from 1-80, and whats the main buffage they bring?  Not concerned too much about group play and dps until i hit 80.</p><p>And despite numerous discussions ingame in various channels, it's always conflicting and never decided <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Rijacki]

Coercers can have the most powerful pets in the game.  But, the coercer's pet will eat the coercer on a whim (charm breaks). Coercers can't just afk at any ol' time.Coercer is not an "Easy Button" class.

[BiggiEQ2]

and that's appealing to me. but don't pets scale down horrendously when charmed?

[XFnarX]

Which is better for solo-ing? Coercer. No question. Coercer & Illus have stun / root / daze / silence / mez, but Illus don't get charm. With charm we can easily move or "suicide" mobs that are in the way in seconds where an Illus would actually have to kill them which would take much longer. Coercers also get much more stuns, apposed to the other abilities, which allows more damage during the stun, unlike mezz. So, a Coercer with enough casting speed and reuse can chain stun a mob while DPSing it down and as long as you don't' get resists you win.It was a toss-up before because Illus had so much DPS on us it was iffy who was the better solo class, but now after the recent LU class changes it's no contest at all. Coercer win at soloing, hands down.oh and...<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Coercer is not an "Easy Button" class.</blockquote>I strongly disagree. By no means are we "easy" to play, although, get a Coercer that knows how to play well against any mob that's "control-able" (aka stuns and the like) and we make the game rather easy in an instant. I get called "easy buttons" all the time when grouping with people / guildies. So are "we" "easy buttons", no. Do we make the game "easy buttons" for everyone else, you bet-cha! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Willie_Makeit]

<p><i>I strongly disagree. By no means are we "easy" to play, although, get a Coercer that knows how to play well against any mob that's "control-able" (aka stuns and the like) and we make the game rather easy in an instant. I get called "easy buttons" all the time when grouping with people / guildies. So are "we" "easy buttons", no. Do we make the game "easy buttons" for everyone else, you bet-cha! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </i></p><p>I think that was the point of his post, though. We're not an easy-button class <i>to play</i>. </p><p>For the OP, if you haven't already, play a necro and then a coercer, then you'll see what we mean. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="29" height="22" /></p>

[Balrok]

<p>Take it from one who loved the coercer class, but went illy for guild needs.  I like raiding illy more, but for any other aspect of the game, which includes solo, I think the "new" coercer is better.</p><p> Rolling a new coercer on nagafen and omg.. ownage.</p>

[XFnarX]

<cite>Willie_Makeit wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><i>I strongly disagree. By no means are we "easy" to play, although, get a Coercer that knows how to play well against any mob that's "control-able" (aka stuns and the like) and we make the game rather easy in an instant. I get called "easy buttons" all the time when grouping with people / guildies. So are "we" "easy buttons", no. Do we make the game "easy buttons" for everyone else, you bet-cha! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </i></p><p>I think that was the point of his post, though. We're not an easy-button class <i>to play</i>. </p><p>For the OP, if you haven't already, play a necro and then a coercer, then you'll see what we mean. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="29" height="22" /></p></blockquote>I have a 80 Necro... and my main is an 80 Coercer... yes Coercers are FAR superior in speed and survivability. Given Necros are pretty cheap at times and are very close if they are equally geared, but I'd honestly like to see a Necro solo all the fishy named in Chelsith in less than 30 minutes. lol Not gonna happen, could they solo them... yeah probably... but not nearly as fast.Now in some instances Necros ARE better, but from what I've seen it's ONLY against mobs that aren't stunnable or in large AE fights against a load of solo mobs for farming. Besides which, Coercers win.So... nope I don't see what you mean. lol

[Xethren]

I havent played an Illusionist, so I cant make a comparison to the other enchanter, but out of all of my characters: alts are zerker, monk, warlock, SK... My coercer can kill mobs faster than any of the other classes. Send in pet, cast the three reactives and the things to trigger them, and the mob is lucky to last more than 20 seconds. Coercer's are definately not an easy class, as there is always high risk with charm breaks. But to me it is by far the funnest class, and surprisingly has the most ways to defend itself: with stuns, mezzes, and roots. Not to mention once you get the Perpetuality AA, other classes cast at what seems like a snail's pace.

[Dreadpatch]

Coercer class is worst class ever until about level 30-35 imho. Yes we get nasty eventually, but you really need to suffer through these levels. Very short duration charm that constantly breaks, no aa's, horrible gear. A well played coercer end game is a god, but you have to get through the first half of the levels. Thus, it isn't an easy button class. YOu still need to battle through those early levels. Pre GU 46 it was really a beeotch.

[Rijacki]

<cite>XFnarX wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Willie_Makeit wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><i>I strongly disagree. By no means are we "easy" to play, although, get a Coercer that knows how to play well against any mob that's "control-able" (aka stuns and the like) and we make the game rather easy in an instant. I get called "easy buttons" all the time when grouping with people / guildies. So are "we" "easy buttons", no. Do we make the game "easy buttons" for everyone else, you bet-cha! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </i></p><p>I think that was the point of his post, though. We're not an easy-button class <i>to play</i>. </p><p>For the OP, if you haven't already, play a necro and then a coercer, then you'll see what we mean. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="29" height="22" /></p></blockquote>I have a 80 Necro... and my main is an 80 Coercer... yes Coercers are FAR superior in speed and survivability. Given Necros are pretty cheap at times and are very close if they are equally geared, but I'd honestly like to see a Necro solo all the fishy named in Chelsith in less than 30 minutes. lol Not gonna happen, could they solo them... yeah probably... but not nearly as fast.Now in some instances Necros ARE better, but from what I've seen it's ONLY against mobs that aren't stunnable or in large AE fights against a load of solo mobs for farming. Besides which, Coercers win.So... nope I don't see what you mean. lol</blockquote>Yes, coercers can do amazing things and I -love- playing mine, but it does actually take effort and paying attention (something I know you and many of us do without thinking too much about it) unlike the true "easy mode" game play possible with a permanent pet that will never turn on you.  Is it possible for a coercer to just set and forget and "play" AFK?  not in the same way as either of the summoners.  Is it possible for a coercer to do crowd control without knowing exactly how ans when to cast each spell to keep everything down? nope, but no other class has our same CCness, illusionist IS close.  But, CC can't be done withot paying attention and putting in effort to know your spells.Easy Button is a class you can set up your attack and then walk away to go make yourself a sandwich and have the effect not that much different than if you were there the whole time.Coercers can do amazing things, but they're not an Easy Button class.  You have to actually know how to play in order to make them into the most awesome class.

[XFnarX]

Oh I agree... we are not a "set hot keys and you'll be fine" class. We are VERY VERY involved. That's what I really like about the class. It does take a decent amount of talent to play a Coercer well.

[Aurumn]

<p>My coercer cured my alt-itis... true story. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  Especially after our recent tweaks. Dear Inny, I'm burnin' stuff down like mad. In groups I can actually get some damage in before the mob drops... no more waiting for stuff to proc or sacrificing dps every time I stun. It's quite fun despite how complicated it can get. </p><p>As to the pets breaking charm, it's the price we pay for getting custom pets for each occasion. When I charmed my first corpse candle... wow. That was a fun night. If a pet makes a habit of being rebellious... let em croak on the next mob and replace it. Problem solved. That and, well possibly not charming things that can one-shot you when it breaks. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p><p>Illy's and coercers are two sides of the same coin. I sort of view Illy's as more safe, mellow and reliable while coercers are more edge-of-the-seat, daring and perhaps a little chaotic. Oh, we can keep it on lock down, too but you learn to laugh at the unexpected when your carefully laid plans get laid to waste by a wayward pet. And then there's the sheer amusement of asking your buddy to hang on a sec while you get a pet and you return with something several times your size trundling along beside you. </p>

[Rijacki]

<cite>Mezzmyrelda@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As to the pets breaking charm, it's the price we pay for getting custom pets for each occasion. When I charmed my first corpse candle... wow. That was a fun night. If a pet makes a habit of being rebellious... let em croak on the next mob and replace it. Problem solved. That and, well possibly not charming things that can one-shot you when it breaks. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p></blockquote>Nothing says coercer more than getting smacked into last week by your pet <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Coercer didn't cure my alt-itis.. I jsut want to make coercer alts *laugh*

[Willie_Makeit]

<p><i>Oh I agree... we are not a "set hot keys and you'll be fine" class. We are VERY VERY involved. That's what I really like about the class. It does take a decent amount of talent to play a Coercer well.</i></p><p> So in other words, you *do* see what we mean, lol.</p><p> Point was, Coercers, playwise, are much tougher than playing summoners...or at least that's what the general consensus is. In fact, some might say enchanters in general are probably one of the toughest archetypes to *play*, since there is so much involved. After all, most newbs don't start the game as an enchanter. Well, I did, but that's because I'm dumb. I mean, just look at my name. =) </p><p> Point wasn't that Coercers are *weaker* than summoners, or any other class for that matter, which seems to be what you are arguing against. </p><p>On a side note, all this talk about coercers makes me wish I could be one in real life. How cool would that be? Going around making pets out of folk?</p><p>Coercer >>>>... Illusionist strictly because of cool-factor.</p>

[Rijacki]

<cite>Willie_Makeit wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>On a side note, all this talk about coercers makes me wish I could be one in real life. How cool would that be? Going around making pets out of folk?</p></blockquote>Getting others to do your bidding without them realising they are?Umm.... *looks around shiftily and then grins impishly*I have to be so careful not to show my glee when charm and mez work.  They just wouldn't understand.... *giggle*

[Melodar]

Leveling a coercer is a chore at low levels but you come into your own. It does take alot to play the class properly and that is where the Not an Easy button class comes from.What Fnar was saying was that once you do know how to play a coercer it is easy smeasy to wipe the floor with mobs and not even think about dying. Pet breaks? no biggie you know how to handle it and are back in action in a min with pet freshly charmed and you really don't even realize you did it as it is simply part of being a coercer. This is where things get easy for us because we know how to play the class right. give an 80 to someone who thinks they know how to play it and the easy flies out the window and they start wondering how the heck did they do that.Coercer is fun you just have to learn it first to enjoy it.

[XFnarX]

[Removed for Content] yeah... hit the nail on the head there. I'm sure my Kill VS death ratio speaks for it self, but yeah. Figuring out how to play and how to solo while growing up as a Coercer way back in the day was a headache, no lies about it. But once you learn and really get into the class those "annoying problems" soon turn into advantages of control you have other other players. A "good" enchanter will have excellent situational awareness and snap reaction skills in any battle or solo-ing. Coercing isn't a spell... it's a life style. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Illine]

yeah and when you try another mage class, your sad coz you can't find the mezz or stun :p

[DwarvesR]

<p>/agree.  I VERY much miss my coercer stuns when playing my warlock or necro.  Though I'll admit to missing my tainted heals when playing my coercer too <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>And for the whole "dying tons as you learn" thing -- yah, my KvD ratio is still pretty bad even today since it was so completely horrid at one point, and it's still just never recovered.  But when I finally "got it" it became second nature.  I don't remember the last time I died solo.  No wait, I do -- I was soloing one of those lieutenants in the Fens at 74 and was so concerned about watching his health hit 50% so I could mez his rhino add that I didn't realize I'd had a stun resisted and he came over and 2-shot me.  And this was not 3 minutes after I'd soloed S'Neuchi without any trouble whatsoever.  But anyway, yeah.. that was a long time ago.  Sometimes I get it on a group wipe vs a CC-immune named in a bad PUG, but that's pretty rare anymore.  What's really fun is when the rest of the group wipes and then I solo whatever it was that got them and feather up the healer.</p><p>It's all about knowing your spells and keeping an ace up your sleeve in case of resists or breaks.   If you've got your own back, you'll generally be fine.</p>