List of current monk issues.

[x0rtrun]

So with devs paying more attention to the class forums, it's probably a good idea for us to condense a list of current issues with the monk class.I'll try to keep it consolidated as major issues come up.Bruisers have a thread here and they share some of our issues: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=423067" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=423067</a>We had a pretty lengthy thread going not too long ago here: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=409764" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=409764</a>In no particular order:<b>Tanking</b>1. Lack of uncontested avoidance compared to plate tanks.2. One of our temporary mitigation buffs is useless. Possible solution: Remove the stun mit buff from the game entirely and increase the mit on the root buff, or add a bonus to uncontested avoidance.<b>Alternate Achievements</b>1. Strength line is infeasible after lvl 70, limiting us to 4 possible AA lines.2. Weaponless requirement for strength line incompatible with epic weapon.<b>Epic Weapon</b>1. Strikethrough on mythical epic is near useless.2. Mitigation bump on mythical epic isn't on par with the damage reduction for other tanks.<b>Combat Arts</b>1. Dev fist seems to have been over nerfed.What bugs you?**EDIT** Added to list.

[sensie]

<p>Avoidance tanking does not work for raiders</p><p>Strikethrough on mythical only works from the front, and since we don't tank it is useless</p><p>A defined role, if its tanking, fix our avoidence and some out of encoutner taunts, if DPS then give us greater DPS</p><p>Dev Fist is worthless on epics, take away the stifle component and increase resue timer for epics. (45 second recast for 15k)</p><p>Take root and stun away from our temp mitagation buffs</p><p>Fix end line Int the 75 melee crit and armour proc looks like it might be life saving however with our low mitagation it does nothing to save us, maybe instead a 50 percent to proc tsnumai or soemthing</p>

[Editedmind]

I'm going to go with the OP and say that my main issues are the same:1. Lack of uncontested avoidance.2. The current no-item requirement on the STR line, it should work will all fist weapons at the very least.Then I'll also add a few pet peeves:3. Our temp proc buff that in the current incarnation cancels after 8 uses, it could really do with being changed back to lasting the entire duration or it might as well just be another kick or punch since it's so limited now.4. Superior Riposte (end line 'body' achievement in our EoF AA tree) doesn't really work that great. 5. Alot of out EoF AA abilities don't offer much of anything at all. Like our Tsunami enhancement, it could do with extending the duration, not just decreasing the timer by such a small amount.

[Editedmind]

<cite>sensie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Avoidance tanking does not work for raiders</p><p>Strikethrough on mythical only works from the front, and since we don't tank it is useless</p><p>A defined role, if its tanking, fix our avoidence and some out of encoutner taunts, if DPS then give us greater DPS</p><p>Dev Fist is worthless on epics, take away the stifle component and increase resue timer for epics. (45 second recast for 15k)</p><p>Take root and stun away from our temp mitagation buffs</p><p>Fix end line Int the 75 melee crit and armour proc looks like it might be life saving however with our low mitagation it does nothing to save us, maybe instead a 50 percent to proc tsnumai or soemthing</p></blockquote>Oh, as for the root and stun to our temp mit buffs, I do agree, however I wouldn't object to making a compromise there. Say, exchanging the root with a snare, and the stun with a root. That way it improved the use without just making it easy mode.

[ShinGoku]

If any of the suggestions so far were made real, I might actually bother to finish lvling my 77 monk!!As is, my swashy seems to have better mit and avoidance.  I tested the theory in a group setting, I tanked one part with my swash and a friend did it with their monk.  The healer said I needed much less in the way of healing than my monkey counterpart...Heres an idea..  fix avoidance and add some interesting new armored forearm slot items.  Ive seen some films / martial arts expos where the fighters wear armored wraps to block and parry blows.  These could be our monk "shields".  That way they would count towards uncontested avoidance and we might live longer.

[Editedmind]

Another thing that I have thought could do with an improvement for a while is the end STA AA line ability, Mantis Leap. Right now it transports you a short distance and lets you critical 100% on a single hit within a 10 sec duration. There are three main issues with this ability:1. The distance is a little lacking even more so with the newer zones where everything seems to have been built larger.2. Often, and more so in newer zones, you can't use the ability because you're not in line of sight, but you are except for a basket or something small between you.3. 100% chance to critical on a single hit would be uber for a mage, or a scout like assassin, but monks hit <b>lots for smaller damage</b>.While it's probably much harder to fix the second issue, something could definitely be done about 1 and 3. The range is currently listed as "30" but it doesn't feel like real meters at all, so I think it might be an idea to increase it a bit so that monks could at least use it to jump up a wall or over an expanse like the ones in Kylong Plains between Terren's Grasp and Jarsath Wastes. Then as for the criticals, the least that could be done is for it to be changed to critical for 100% during the entire 10 seconds, even if the cooldown was made a minute of three it would be much more useful that way.

[evilgamer]

<cite>Editedmind wrote:</cite><blockquote> Then as for the criticals, the least that could be done is for it to be changed to critical for 100% during the entire 10 seconds, even if the cooldown was made a minute of three it would be much more useful that way.</blockquote>Now that would be nice and a reason to go down the sta line.

[Stabbath]

If you are wanting to raid tank as good as other tanks, I doubt it will happen unless other things are nerfed. There would be no need for being other tank classes if monks were as good.I hear deflection is our shield, so the forearm comments probably won't fly with SOE.

[x0rtrun]

Are there really no other issues? Or have those who typically tried to move the class forward finally up and quit in frustration?

[Turb]

<p>I don't think monks are in THAT bad shape.</p><p>There are some issues that should be addressed though, for example:</p><p>1) Fix strikethrough</p><p>2) Make dev fist useful in raids (not just a party trick vs heroic adds)</p><p>3) Change our stun mit buff to at least just a stifle.   It briefly had a use for the original version of Peel where you had to avoid getting aggro to keep Peel up, but now is only useful somewhat situationally when handing aggro back to the main tank in a raid</p><p>4) Give Peel a wee bit of loving.  It needed a big nerf, but could have a slightly shorter reuse timer still.   Not as short as Drag, but somewhere in the middle</p><p>5) Improve the duration of Tsunami slightly via AAs (maybe alongside the reuse timer reduction, even just 0.5s per AA point would help)</p><p>6) Reduce the timer on our self-cure.   There's so many more effects to cure in raids these days that the original timer seems rather outdated.   </p><p>7) Increase our heal range (10 or 15m)</p><p>I don't think any of these would overpower us, but any of them would be welcomed.</p><p>What could the devs give us for a more unique feel?    There's a few possibilities, e.g. giving brawlers a replacement AA ability to avoid or even be immune to melee double attacks.   That sort of change would increase our survivability in some raid situations without overpowering us insolo/group content.   Give it to our bruiser cousins too.     Paladins get fear immunity, we could dodge double attacks instead.</p>

[EQ2Luv]

<p>Can we get this stickied?  The community team suggested each class have a stickied list of issues.</p><p>I would like to add these to the main list:</p><p>1) Monk-specific "end-line" achievement abilities are all lacking in power, especially for raiders.</p><p>  --Group threat reduction is useless, especially in a raid setting since the threat amount does not scale upward like high-end raid DPS does.  </p><p>  --Combination is too little damage for a long recast.  </p><p>  --Superior riposte performs the check before other avoidance checks unlike the previous dodge version of the achievement and the guardian block achievement, thus triggering even if your normal avoidance would have avoided the blow.  Additionally, the spell reflect is not useful in raid settings.  The old aoe avoidance achievement was much nicer.</p><p>2) Monk tree has only 3 end-line options, whereas almost all other classes have 4. Would like to see a good option for raid monks added, if not revamp the current 3 to be more useful for raids.  </p><p>3) There is a pattern of top-tier set gear adding underpowered or useless abilities for monks.  Of particular note is enhancing monk offensive stance: monks do not need the increased haste, especially in offensive stance--we are already soft capped self-buffed, and hard capped in raids. The small increase in melee skills *only while in offensive stance* is incredibly underpowered compared to other class set effects (really don't get much from 10 crushing when already in offensive stance).   The (6) effect on VP set is also dissappointing.  It needs to be something significant to warrant wearing all 6 pieces.  Increasing one (unimportant) combat art fails to accomplish this.  </p>

[Xanrn]

1)Strikethrough needs to be change to a fixed percentage omni-directional buff. Somewhere between 10-20%, something like 10% group wide or 20% self.2) The Chain Mitigation needs to be changed to some that doesn't get worse the better gear you get. I mean for godsake its only going to get worse Next X-pac when the Mit on pieces goes up. <span style="color: #ff0000;">10% All Dmg Absorb or 10% All Dmg into Heal</span>3) Range and maybe Reuse on Self Heal need looking at.4) Reuse on Self Cure needs to be looked at.5) The Set Bonuses for the VP set need to be looked at, their rubbish especially the enhance Flow Like Wind and enhance Dragonfire. Both are pretty useless.6) All our Combat Arts with Control Effects, ie are 2 Stuns, Daze and Stifle need to have either <span style="color: #ff0000;">Does not Effect Epics</span> removed or<span style="color: #ff0000;"> Does 10% Extra Dmg against Epics added</span> or Add Debuffs that only Effect Epics.7) The Debuff on Biting Cobra needs to be enhanced, the new Master Spell does more. Maybe add Parry and Deflection to the Defense or up the Defense.<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Our AAs are a bloody mess.8.1) The Str line needs to be useable with weapons, simple reduce the DA to 2-3% per point when weapons are equipped and remove the restrictions on the rest.8.2) The Crit Increase from the Int line could ya  round it up to 20 or something.8.3) All of the Combat Art enhancement AAs in the Monk tree need to add 25% extra dmg, never mind the rest.8.4) Combination should be turned into an Until Cancelled Self Buff that Procs everytime you hit the Kick, Jab, Punch combo. Either that or increase the dmg or reduce the reuse by alot.8.5) Superior Riposte should be turned back into a Self or Hell Group 1 shot AoE immune.9) The Stun Mitt buff needs to loose any control effects. The Root Mitt buff needs the same.10) Dragonfire needs its dmg enhanced by like 50% or more, it does pathetic dmg for a AoE of that level and reuse.How do we get this stickied?

[githyanki]

<p>The biggest things for monks for in my opinion atm are.....</p><p> My biggest beef with monks atm is our t8 raid buff is worse at adept 3 then t7 master.   And no i haven't been lucky enough to have one drop nor have i seen the master on the broker for less then 200pp.   This is the only skill that does not improve from previous tier master at adapt 3 in t8.   If nothing else is done .....FIX THIS!!!</p><p>1. uncontested avoidance even with t8 master is laughable compared to a plate tank with a mastercrafted shield.  I personally do ok with a good group setup to compensate but getting into yellow and up mobs its better to have ANY scout tank.</p><p>2. devastation fist is kinda nice if you want to use it on the last 2 to 3 percent of a raid mobs life but before that is worthless.   It is however still good vs group stuff.  Never was happy with where they left this ability for raids.</p><p>3. we have a nice little niche in raids as a tsunami peel bot but after that goes down our root stance is ok but our stifle stance is kinda worthless.  maybe give us 3 seconds to cast then stifle us.....would let the monk cast tsunami and peel and survive for more then 10ish seconds.</p><p>4. superior riposti is sometimes ok vs the deathtouch mob in pr if you dont have a mage to pet pull it.   just never found another use for the ability</p><p>5. monk aa tree is lackluster with nothing that jumps out at you except the heal increase, tsunami reuse, and self cure.</p><p>6. STR aa line is ok if you dont want to buy mc weapons of your current tier.   Would like to see something added to this for an uncontested avoidance plus of some kind and make it a decreased benefit for double attack if using epic... if not label the line as lvling up tree instead of chi line and cap it at 72.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Xanrn]

Community Person please sticky this!

[Psychotic One]

<p>Str line weapon requirements - I think enough has been said about this.  The double attack might need to be reduced but we should be able to use it with our epic.</p><p>Superior Reposte - I would like to see this changed to a new Brawler Intercede where we can cast it on the MT and he will automaticly avoid the next incoming attack.  Bring the recharge speed to around Intercede level so we can help protect the main tank but not get obliterated when using it.</p><p>Class uniqueness - Hat not unique, Gi's not unique, headbands not unique, tsunami given to other classes [AAs and bruiser epic].  Would like to see more things that make monks stand out.  Give us the Hadoken so we have a ranged chi attack.  Give use that shadow clone that the grandmaster uses and make it so it will absorb x amount of damage for us while active.  Upgrade devistation Fist to "Path of Devistation" and make it so that gives us 100% crit for X amount of time.  As time passes brawlers lose more and more of what makes us brawlers and be nice to see some uniqueness restored.</p><p>Weapon Choices - Let us use 2hand spears.  No one ever seems to use them but as a brawler with the double attack adornment there are some warrior spears I'd consider using out there.  They are nothing more than bladed staffs and monks could use the Wyrmslayer so its not a far stretch and might give an under used item type some screen time.  Specially considering there is no offensive adornment for 2hand crushing besides phantom piths.  Other types of weapons that could be converted over or created...Sais, Tiger Hook Swords, Butterfly swords, Tai chi blades, Bladed claws/boots, more visually accurate Cestus, etc.  </p>

[Morgane]

I agree with most everything here but would add "Instill Doubt" to the current issues. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but Instill Doubt doesn't do a thing for me in Tier 8. It gets resisted almost every single time I use it. I finally took it off my hot bar. If it doesn't work in Tier 8 solo questing I'm almost positive it won't help me on raids, either.

[Xanrn]

Yes thats another problem, we give up aload of weapons other Fighters can use for a couple they can't.I would like to see Brawlers added to any single handed weapon with delay of 2.5 or less that other Fighters can use and any 2 handed weapon a fighter can use.For Instance<img src="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/images/items/2139.gif" alt="" border="0" /><img src="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/images/items/2179.jpg" alt="" border="0" /><img src="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/images/items/2122.gif" alt="" border="0" /><img src="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/images/items/2421.png" alt="" border="0" /><img src="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/images/items/2072.jpg" alt="" border="0" />There are only 2 Fist Weapons in all of the Kunark Raid Zones, then another 2 crushing weapons not counting the obivious priest/mages ones and only 2 2 Handed Weapons.

[Editedmind]

I think the priority issue for monks at the moment is to get this thread actually stickied. Has anyone asked a forum mod to take a look at it?

[Blu]

I haven't had much complaint about my monk, being a casual/solo player. I have noticed some abilities that I don't use, however.<div></div><div>CAs:</div><div></div><div>The mit buff with stun isn't even on my hotbar... nearly useless even for grouping.</div><div></div><div>AAs:</div><div></div><div>None of the 3 end line monk abilities seem particularly good. I don't currently use any of them. If they were passive, I'd take them.</div><div>The monk AAs that lower offensive single-target CA recast are annoying (more and different recast timers). I'd much rather have damage increase.</div>

[sensie]

<cite>Editedmind wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the priority issue for monks at the moment is to get this thread actually stickied. Has anyone asked a forum mod to take a look at </blockquote>One page page opne of this thread someone asked for this to be stickied and we have still not recieved any response.

[Rdog0505]

So far i have to say that I agree with most of what you guys have said. Our uncontested avoidance is nearly worthless. I see guardians with avoidance as high as us, and our only nitch as fighters is that we are avoidance tanks. In the brawler tree i don't understand why the STR line has not been fixed to allow us partial benefit atleast while using weapons. If I remember right didnt they take away the need for enchanters to have their power below 30% for a inc in their DPS? Wouldn't the str line be similar to that? I also have an issue with the Monk tree not having really anything amazing on it. Other classes have some great abilities in their class tree, but we really have nothing that is remotely cool at all.

[x0rtrun]

<cite>sensie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Editedmind wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the priority issue for monks at the moment is to get this thread actually stickied. Has anyone asked a forum mod to take a look at </blockquote>One page page opne of this thread someone asked for this to be stickied and we have still not recieved any response.</blockquote>I had to send a PM to Gnobrin. It seems none of the CS or dev team spends any time in the monk forum so they probably never would have noticed on their own.

[Lethe5683]

I agree with most of the problems listed. Two I didn't see however was the lack of good tanking equipment in RoK instances and the stupid WIS on our self buff.  Bruisers get STR/AGI we get STR/WIS with the WIS being nearly useless...  I think ours should be changed to the same as bruisers.

[mr23sgte]

<p>I would like to see the Monk AA "Superior riposte" back the way it was at launch as an AE avoid for 10 seconds</p><p>Make the Monk "combo" AA ability a groupwide damage proc. (basically your group gets rewarded with some kind of mini buff for you getting the combo sequence)</p><p>Shuffle the Brawler AA line into a dedicated tree for DPS/Tank/utlity --not deflection in one tree - defense in another, parry in another Oo  Strength line, you know what I 'm going to say about that one......</p><p>The Stun mit stance is worthless.</p><p>Nothing like being FD'ed and getting mowed down by AE - expand on the Juggernaut 6-bonus set and make us avoid AE when FD. </p><p>PEEL needs some loving after the MEGA-nerf (which was needed, but not that extreme)</p><p>Every fighter class except Brawlers gets two group buffs - why are we different?</p>

[Xanrn]

Well lets PM Aeralik aswell since every Dev sees fit to utterly ignore us at every turn.

[Blu]

I would like to reiterate that the Monk AAs that shorten the cast timers on only 3 of our single target CAs are very annoying. It would be much better to just get a damage increase.<div></div><div>This was recently confirmed for me when I actually respec'd into those AAs that reduce the recast (Enhanced: Morning Star, Five Rings, and Stifling Palm). I did this because it is potentially a DPS increase. However, after the first round of CAs, attacking turns into a game of whack-a-mole, and it's very annoying when I'm trying to pay attention to other goings-on in the group (adds, repositions, knockback, fear, etc.). It also messes with auto-attack timing.</div><div></div><div>Please change those 3 abilities to a damage increase instead of a recast reduction.</div>

[mr23sgte]

<p>Looks like some of our ideas are actually happening this next expansion ...... Lets keeep this thread alive.  I'm not in Beta, just rumors from that other website.</p><p>Stun Stance - AA to remove Stun (This needs to be a Brawler AA  - the Bruisers would be [Removed for Content] if they don't get the same option)</p><p>Group FD - AA for AE immunity</p><p>Peel - AA for recast shortened (I don't agree with this - it needs to be shortened without us wasting AA's to do so)</p>

[Aeralik]

<cite>x0rtrunks wrote:</cite><blockquote><b>Tanking</b>1. Lack of uncontested avoidance compared to plate tanks.2. One of our temporary mitigation buffs is useless. Possible solution: Remove the stun mit buff from the game entirely and increase the mit on the root buff, or add a bonus to uncontested avoidance.<b>Alternate Achievements</b>1. Strength line is infeasible after lvl 70, limiting us to 4 possible AA lines.<b>Combat Arts</b>1. Dev fist seems to have been over nerfed.</blockquote>All those that I left above should be coming up as a fix in the expansion in some form or another.  As to the epic, I know you guys love the strikethrough so much so I left that on it still but added another little tweak to make that part of the epic a bit better <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Tazdrag]

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>x0rtrunks wrote:</cite><blockquote><b>Tanking</b>1. Lack of uncontested avoidance compared to plate tanks.2. One of our temporary mitigation buffs is useless. Possible solution: Remove the stun mit buff from the game entirely and increase the mit on the root buff, or add a bonus to uncontested avoidance.<b>Alternate Achievements</b>1. Strength line is infeasible after lvl 70, limiting us to 4 possible AA lines.<b>Combat Arts</b>1. Dev fist seems to have been over nerfed.</blockquote>All those that I left above should be coming up as a fix in the expansion in some form or another.  As to the epic, I know you guys love the strikethrough so much so I left that on it still but added another little tweak to make that part of the epic a bit better <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p>I have seen via alternative sources that the stun will be removed as part of expansion AA line with increased Mit per rank. This is good but the CA is on a 3 minute recast.  Bruisers are getting a passive buff at 5 points will give them slightly less Mit than chain. And before anyone asks no I am not in Beta, so not breaching any NDA</p><p> So when Mythicals are taken in to account</p><ul><li>Bruiser Mit slightly less than chain + 10% damage reduction, 100% of the time</li><li>Monk Mit equal to chain + 30 sec unstunned mit increase every 3 minutes</li></ul><p>Does not seem very balanced to me</p><p>Cheers</p><p>Knight Captain KarakkaLucan DLere</p>

[Xanrn]

So how have you fixed Strikethrough and when is it going live and it better be alot better, cause its freakin useless at the moment. We don't stand infront of the mob unless we are tanking and we hardly ever tank Raid mobs.Also having to pay AA points to get rid of that stupid Stun is beyond lame. It shouldn't be there in the first place, who ever thought it was a good idea is beyond me. It has always been a stupid unused CA, since launch the only time it was ever useful was when Peel was unnerfed.And why the hell are Bruisers getting one of our Mythical effects for an AA?

[mr23sgte]

<p>Guys atleast we are getting a response and an actual Dev post in our forums.....I can't remember the last time that happened. Be Constructive IMO</p><p>P.S. Monks want "Drag" ability okthx</p>

[Aull]

<cite>Hereo@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Looks like some of our ideas are actually happening this next expansion ...... Lets keeep this thread alive.  I'm not in Beta, just rumors from that other website.</p><p><span style="font-size: small;color: #ffff00;">Stun Stance - AA to remove Stun (This needs to be a Brawler AA  - the Bruisers would be [Removed for Content] if they don't get the same option)</span></p><p>Group FD - AA for AE immunity</p><p>Peel - AA for recast shortened (I don't agree with this - it needs to be shortened without us wasting AA's to do so)</p></blockquote><p>I personally do not care if monks only get this ability and bruisers do not (I do appreciate your concern by mentioning it though) as long as bruisers get some thing on the oppisite end of the spectrum. Reason being that I would hate to see the the two brawlers having the same type of abilities or having any type of equality. I like individuality. </p><p>I don't even like that the bruisers got a tsunami type ability on their mythical but I am sure that some bruisers would cuss me for saying that. Bruisers mythical should have made already exsisting bruiser abilities stronger, more efficent, or gave something additional "unique" but not copying any other classes abilities. </p><p>I hate to see class defining abilities being shared by other classes. If SOE keeps doing this then there will be nothing special about any given class hence no need in having two brawlers ect..</p><p>I hope you monks do get some beneficial abilities that help where ever you lack. Again I just hate seeing that bruisers "with mythical" can have a similar ability to your tsunami.</p><p>I do not play a monk but I would suggest that monks tsunami should be instant cast, heal reuse should be reduced to two mins instead of three, peel should last for 15 secs, a monks cure should be able to be cast on other group/raid memebers with a 15 sec reuse timer (if you can already heal you should be able to cure too), and group fd should have its timer reduced by 50%.</p><p>This is just what I see but I do think those are not out of reach or overpowering.</p><p>Thanks for reading.</p>

[mr23sgte]

<p>Monks and Bruisers share 3 Core Brawler abilities.</p><p>Stun Stance</p><p>Single FD</p><p>Fear --was the last and latest</p><p>It would only make sense IMO that these skills would always remain equal for both classes</p>

[Aull]

<cite>Hereo@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Monks and Bruisers share 3 Core Brawler abilities.</p><p>Stun Stance</p><p>Single FD</p><p>Fear --was the last and latest</p><p>It would only make sense IMO that these skills would always remain equal for both classes</p></blockquote><p>I can agree on that. However I do believe that bruisers had both a fear and a mezz since the start and at that time both of them were on different reuse timers. Many game updates later monks where given a fear as well (I could be wrong on this so please correct me if I am). With those game updates bruiser fear and mezz were both placed on the same timer so instead of being able to mezz one mob and fear a potential add was lost.</p><p>Mezz is actually better for the bruiser since aa's can increase the duration some where fear has really no benefit now and to me is a waste of a combat art. Sorry to get off on that subject but again I don't really know if fear was a monk ability from the start so I can't really say that it is a core ability that we share. I will try and seek this info out on previous gu posts.</p>

[mr23sgte]

Your correct, but they fixed the Bruiser mezz/fear timer issue. They are on seperate timers again.

[Aull]

<cite>Hereo@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Your correct, but they fixed the Bruiser mezz/fear timer issue. They are on seperate timers again.</blockquote>I don't have my fear hotbarred anymore but my mezz does state that it shares the same timer as the fear.

[Aull]

My apologies I am stating bruisers issues in the monk forum. Sorry.

[Mogzilla]

<cite>Xanrn wrote:</cite><blockquote>So how have you fixed Strikethrough and when is it going live and it better be alot better, cause its freakin useless at the moment. We don't stand infront of the mob unless we are tanking and we hardly ever tank Raid mobs.Also having to pay AA points to get rid of that stupid Stun is beyond lame. It shouldn't be there in the first place, who ever thought it was a good idea is beyond me. It has always been a stupid unused CA, since launch the only time it was ever useful was when Peel was unnerfed.And why the hell are Bruisers getting one of our Mythical effects for an AA?</blockquote><p>You are right, both brawler stun mit buffs are worthless.</p><p>And bruisers are NOT getting your myth ability on an AA, its mitigate SLIGHTLY LESS then chain, yours is MIT LIKE CHAIN.</p>

[Mogzilla]

<cite>Tazdragon wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> So when Mythicals are taken in to account</p><ul><li>Bruiser Mit slightly less than chain + 10% damage reduction, 100% of the time</li><li>Monk Mit equal to chain + 30 sec unstunned mit increase every 3 minutes</li></ul><p>Does not seem very balanced to me</p><p>Cheers</p><p>Knight Captain KarakkaLucan DLere</p></blockquote><p>Yeah and +24% raid wide attack haste & 15% spell casting haste vs +20% to taunts/detaunts and +100 to CA is not balanced at all, lol</p>

[Mogzilla]

<cite>Hereo@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Your correct, but they fixed the Bruiser mezz/fear timer issue. They are on seperate timers again.</blockquote>Yes they are.

[Mogzilla]

<cite>Aull wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't have my fear hotbarred anymore but my mezz does state that it shares the same timer as the fear.</blockquote><p>No it does not.</p><p>You can cast fear and the immediately cast mez.</p><p> You can have a feared mob and a mezzed mob at the same time.</p>

[mr23sgte]

<p>I would like to see our Monk AA "Superior Riposte" changed to be just like the Swashbuckler "Advance Warning" AA - this would be a nice utility ability ad not to OP IMO. Since most of the Bards don't spec AE avoid anymore.</p><p>I would like to see "Dev Fist" turned into a "Verdict" ability for 2% health death like Inquis.</p><p> I think those two changes along with Mythical fixing, Stun Line fix and the new AA changes we would be in GREAT SHAPE!</p>

[Orthureon]

<p><cite>x0rtrunks wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>So with devs paying more attention to the class forums, it's probably a good idea for us to condense a list of current issues with the monk class.I'll try to keep it consolidated as major issues come up.Bruisers have a thread here and they share some of our issues: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=423067" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=423067</a>We had a pretty lengthy thread going not too long ago here: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=409764" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=409764</a>In no particular order:<strong>Tanking</strong>1. Lack of uncontested avoidance compared to plate tanks.2. One of our temporary mitigation buffs is useless. Possible solution: Remove the stun mit buff from the game entirely and increase the mit on the root buff, or add a bonus to uncontested avoidance.<strong>Alternate Achievements</strong>1. Strength line is infeasible after lvl 70, limiting us to 4 possible AA lines.2. Weaponless requirement for strength line incompatible with epic weapon.<strong>Epic Weapon</strong>1. Strikethrough on mythical epic is near useless.2. Mitigation bump on mythical epic isn't on par with the damage reduction for other tanks.<strong>Combat Arts</strong>1. Dev fist seems to have been over nerfed.What bugs you?**EDIT** Added to list. </blockquote><p>Agree with all of the above. Some other points (might be OP so don't be too critical lol they are just rough ideas.):</p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Brawler AA:</span></strong></p><p>>> <em><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Agility Line:</strong></span></em></p><ul><li><strong>Ambidexterity:</strong> Maxed reuse speed would be 50% faster.</li><li><strong>Altruism:</strong> Increase the heal amount to 25% since 5 minutes is a long reuse.</li></ul><p>>> <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em><strong>Stamina Line:</strong></em></span> (since this seems like the PVP line)</p><ul><li><strong>Mantis Star:</strong> Remove the damage, make it a 40% snare, debuffs heat/cold, defense/parry and mitigation, 75% easier to hit. This is maxed of course.</li><li><strong>Mantis Bolt:</strong> Change it to 25% chance to proc a knockback when maxed.</li><li><strong>Mantis Leap:</strong> Change the range to 40 meters, and it makes you stick to your target for 10 seconds and always do critical damage. Reuse of 2 minutes.</li></ul><p>>> <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em><strong>Intelligence line:</strong></em></span></p><ul><li><strong>Eagle Spin:</strong> Increase the duration of ability. 16 seconds in PVE, 8 seconds PVP (or 12 PVE, 6 PVP). Reuse 1 minute.</li><li><strong>Eagle Shriek:</strong> Once you reach 50% health or lower, chance to proc heal, short duration 50% parry increase, mitigation increase same as now, and 75% crits. Might need some tweaking could be OP</li></ul><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Monk AA:</strong></span></p><ul><li><strong>Enhance: Tsunami:</strong> Reduces reuse on tsunami, while also increasing the duration. Or remove the reuse and just give a nice buff to the duration.</li><li><strong><em>*NEW*</em></strong> <strong>Enhance: Stances: </strong>Have something that increases our stances, while removing the penalties, ala Predators.</li><li><strong><em>OR *NEW*</em></strong> <strong>Enhance: Mid stance: </strong>Increase the offensive and defensive capabilities to be equal to an M1 of both offensive and defensive. So basically like both put together without the penalties. Requires 10 AA however.</li><li><strong><em>*NEW*</em></strong> <strong>Enhance: Devastation Fist:</strong> Removes stifle. Does 5% to epics. Costs 5 AA. See the requirements for Devastation Fist below.</li></ul><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>Combat arts:</strong></span></p><ul><li><strong>Devastation Fist:</strong> </li><li>Enable it to be used in PVP against players.</li><li>Grey players can be killed instantly </li><li>Green 50%</li><li>Blue 40%</li><li>White 30%</li><li>Yellow 20%</li><li>Orange 10%, </li><li>Red 5%</li><li>Increase the hit rate of it. </li><li>Requirement: must be behind. </li><li>Reuse possibly increased to 5 minutes.</li></ul><ul><li><strong>Outward Calm (and upgrades)</strong></li><li>Can be used on other players.</li><li>Wards against all damage.</li><li>Slight increase to ward amount.</li><li>They could make the AA add the above instead of reuse time.</li></ul><p>Come to think of it, why don't they add specific AA for PVP only? The points could be attained through PVP kills.</p>

[mr23sgte]

<p>The Monk Class got pretty much completely shafted for AA's in TSO .....the only nice change was the Brawler Strength line and the stun removed from our stun stance.</p><p>Our Raidwide was nerfed from 14 to 9.8%</p><p>Dev fist was nerfed, but no longer has stifle ---no more % based damage and a 5 min re-use FTL!</p>

[Orthureon]

<p>It better be usable in PVP then damnit. What a waste, It better be HUGE damage for 5 minutes.</p>

[ShinGoku]

<p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It better be usable in PVP then damnit. What a waste, It better be HUGE damage for 5 minutes.</p></blockquote><p>Last time I checked no, it can't be used in PvP.</p>

[Dirrin]

<p>So just recently reset my brawler AA tree and was hoping to change a few things. Alothough, when I set my relentless punches to full again (8/8 ) It had tanked from 98% to 21%. Does anyone know what happened? Right before resetting I checked it and my stats and it did infact say 98% so it was either not yet in place on my stats or re-specing led to its fall.</p>

[Mogzilla]

<p>Crane twirl from the brawler wisdom line is terrible compared to dragoons cyclone from the warior agi tree and trample from the crusader agi tree.</p><p><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Trample_%28Crusader%29"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: #800080;">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Trample_%28Crusader%29</span></span></a></p><p> <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Dragoon%27s_Cyclone"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: #800080;">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Dragoon%27s_Cyclone</span></span></a></p><p>Both have a higher % chance (40% vs 16% at max) to proc and both will do more damage because auto attack can be modfied with haste, double attack and dps mods.</p><p>Crane twirl has a lower precent to proc and will do signficantly less damage then either trample or cyclone due to not being affected by auto attack mods</p><p><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Crane_Twirl"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: #800080;">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Crane_Twirl</span></span></a></p><p>This is especially compounded with mythicals.</p><p>If a dev reads this please consider changing crane twirl to a chance to hit with your auto attack vs just a flat aoe proc it is now.</p><p>With this new expansion aoe damage will be very vital to a fighters ability to get a group or a raid.</p><p>Brawlers are already behind zerkers, sks, and paladins with CA/spells alone, this just makes it worse. </p>

[Morrolan V]

<p>This is really important.</p><p>The changes to the STR line were a step in the right direction, but this needs to happen too.  We need for this ability to scale with weapon, buff and bonus quality.</p>

[mr23sgte]

<p>Agree 100% - if we are the DPS/utility fighter, I'm not seeing the vision of why are AE line is less than other fighters.</p>

[Jasazick]

<p><cite>Dirrin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So just recently reset my brawler AA tree and was hoping to change a few things. Alothough, when I set my relentless punches to full again (8/8 ) It had tanked from 98% to 21%. Does anyone know what happened? Right before resetting I checked it and my stats and it did infact say 98% so it was either not yet in place on my stats or re-specing led to its fall.</p></blockquote><p>I noticed this too. This is kind of a big deal - what happened?</p>

[Tazdrag]

<p><cite>Jasazick wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dirrin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So just recently reset my brawler AA tree and was hoping to change a few things. Alothough, when I set my relentless punches to full again (8/8 ) It had tanked from 98% to 21%. Does anyone know what happened? Right before resetting I checked it and my stats and it did infact say 98% so it was either not yet in place on my stats or re-specing led to its fall.</p></blockquote><p>I noticed this too. This is kind of a big deal - what happened?</p></blockquote><p>They removed the requirement to be bare handed for the strength line, as a result a reduction if the skills was required otherwise they would have been seriouslly overpowered</p><p>Cheers</p><p>Knight Captain KarakkaLucan DLere</p>

[Jasazick]

<p><cite>Tazdragon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jasazick wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dirrin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So just recently reset my brawler AA tree and was hoping to change a few things. Alothough, when I set my relentless punches to full again (8/8 ) It had tanked from 98% to 21%. Does anyone know what happened? Right before resetting I checked it and my stats and it did infact say 98% so it was either not yet in place on my stats or re-specing led to its fall.</p></blockquote><p>I noticed this too. This is kind of a big deal - what happened?</p></blockquote><p>They removed the requirement to be bare handed for the strength line, as a result a reduction if the skills was required otherwise they would have been seriouslly overpowered</p><p>Cheers</p><p>Knight Captain KarakkaLucan DLere</p></blockquote><p>Ok, so at lvl 30 I have been using bare hands rather than weapons b/c from what I've read I won't see any real benefit until I hit lvl 70+</p><p>Since I don't plan on flying through the levels this is a pretty steep nerf for me, or am I missing something?</p>

[Mogzilla]

<p><cite>Jasazick wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Ok, so at lvl 30 I have been using bare hands rather than weapons b/c from what I've read I won't see any real benefit until I hit lvl 70+<p>Since I don't plan on flying through the levels this is a pretty steep nerf for me, or am I missing something?</p></blockquote><p>No its not a nerf, unless you had 8 points in relentless punches you did more dps with weapons anyway and since you dont start gaining AA's till level 10, this line was a waste of points untill around level 30.</p><p>Now you can benefit from it from level 10 to 80 end game instead of it just being usefule from levels 30-70.</p><p>Besides if you get two decent mastercrafted weapons I bet you will find you dps is actually higher at 21% double attack duel weilding MC weapons vs 96% double attack with you one weapon bare fist (yes you fist count as a two hander)</p>

[Kanlei]

<p>We need some sort of aggro control vs encounters.  I tank a lot of instances for my guildies and 9/10 I have a warlock in group.  I do NOT stand a chance agaist him trying to hold aggro.  I can tab, peel, rescu,e and even the new TSO fighter rescue and at most I can keep two of the adds on me full time.</p><p>This is getting ridiculous.  Since he is a guildy he knows that I can not hold aggro on mutliple mobs and just deals with the repair bills.  However when I do a pick up group (very rare) I'm automatically placed as oh he can't tank, even though I am one of the best geared monks on my server.  It's not really fair to warlocks, wizzards, or any other class with massive AE's when I have to say "hey guys don't use a lot of AE's unless you like to die a lot"</p><p>Either give us better AE damage or let our dragon stance proc group encounter.  I vote for the damage route, but seriously anything would be better at this point.</p>

[Aull]

<p><cite>Kanlei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We need some sort of aggro control vs encounters.  I tank a lot of instances for my guildies and 9/10 I have a warlock in group.  I do NOT stand a chance agaist him trying to hold aggro.  I can tab, peel, rescu,e and even the new TSO fighter rescue and at most I can keep two of the adds on me full time.</p><p>This is getting ridiculous.  Since he is a guildy he knows that I can not hold aggro on mutliple mobs and just deals with the repair bills.  However when I do a pick up group (very rare) I'm automatically placed as oh he can't tank, even though I am one of the best geared monks on my server.  It's not really fair to warlocks, wizzards, or any other class with massive AE's when I have to say "hey guys don't use a lot of AE's unless you like to die a lot"</p><p>Either give us better AE damage or let our dragon stance proc group encounter.  I vote for the damage route, but seriously anything would be better at this point.</p></blockquote><p>I hear ya but again even strong ae classes can help the tank to a certain degree without pulling the entire encounter on every fight. Yes I agree that tanking encounters on a brawler is very very tough and it will be impossible to do so if warlocks are opening the fight with those massive ae nukes. Even my zerker has a very hard time with warlocks that play this way but again it isn't my fault that most warlocks are this way since I am not the one hitting the keystrokes on the other end.</p><p>I do laugh somewhat that your guildy knows encounter fights are tough for you yet he still continues making his repair bill higher. That isn't totally your fault.</p>

[Taz]

<p><cite>Kanlei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We need some sort of aggro control vs encounters.  I tank a lot of instances for my guildies and 9/10 I have a warlock in group.  I do NOT stand a chance agaist him trying to hold aggro.  I can tab, peel, rescu,e and even the new TSO fighter rescue and at most I can keep two of the adds on me full time.</p><p>This is getting ridiculous.  Since he is a guildy he knows that I can not hold aggro on mutliple mobs and just deals with the repair bills.  However when I do a pick up group (very rare) I'm automatically placed as oh he can't tank, even though I am one of the best geared monks on my server.  It's not really fair to warlocks, wizzards, or any other class with massive AE's when I have to say "hey guys don't use a lot of AE's unless you like to die a lot"</p><p>Either give us better AE damage or let our dragon stance proc group encounter.  I vote for the damage route, but seriously anything would be better at this point.</p></blockquote><p>I got to say I am in the same boat and dealing with the same struggles. I have a fairly static guild group that includes a warlock, and our serious lack of any real AE agro is starting to become a painful frustation. We deal with it, which basically involves me tabbing around alot and healing through the damage she is taking as I constantly work to get/keep agro. I am not one to gripe about things....but with almost all instances having grouped encounters in TSO, there is no escaping the issue....and until we are given some better tools....no way of really dealing with the issue.</p><p>Is there nothing that can be done to throw brawlers a bone on this one and give us some better AE agro? Outside of D&C, it appears Bruisers share the same deficiency.</p>

[Mowster]

<p>A couple of changes I have noticed, #1 it seems that Monks take damage a little faster than we used to. Mitigation seems to be a tad lower. The other thing I have noticed is FD. I have a 95%(supposedly)success for FD, and since the expansion it seems to fail about a third of the time. Also I have noticed that Group FD doesn't work as well. Where once at most it would fail on 1 or 2 people at most, now I am lucky if it works on 2 people. It's no fun casting grp fd and then being yelled at because half the group wiped. Then of course hearing "Well what use is it for monks to have group fd if it always fails?" And of course yes they nerfed Dev Fist and it's fairly worthless now. I have for the most part solo'd my monk for 75 levels, with intermittant grouping and a few raids. The changes make it harder to solo and also affect group play. Haven't been on a raid since the changes but it should be interesting. A couple of bruiser friends seem to be having similar issues.</p>

[Mogzilla]

<p><span><span style="color: #ff0000;"> <span><span style="color: #ffffff;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span><a name="4896933">Brawler TSO aversion achievement line is bugged</a></span></span></span></span></span><p><span><span style="color: #ffffff;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"><span>Each acheivment point is supposed to add </span>1.2% to the minimum (uncontested) deflection amount of the brawlers mid and defensive stances.</span></span></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I spent 1 point in this and the % changes show on the spell descriptions in my defensive stance (went from 16% to 17.2%), however my % chance to deflect and over all avoidence in my persona window did not go up at all.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Can a dev look into this?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">How can your base minimum chance to deflect go up and it not increase your % chance to deflect and overall avoidence in the persona window?</span></p></span></p>

[Siatfallen]

<p>Heya!</p><p>This thread has been dead for a while, so I went ahead and made an alternate one:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=445769�" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...69�</a></p><p>Hop on over and poke fun at my attempt - I mean give feedback. Thanks muchly.</p>